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Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: 1972shark (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 17:10

So, if we finish outside top 6, can we still qualify by virtue of our losing Champions Cup semi and other clubs finishing positions?

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 17:52

Seemingly but who knows.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 17:56

Saracens winning helps

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: Yareet (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 18:35

Quote:
Irish_Shark
Saracens winning helps

My understanding is that the 20th spot will go to:

La Rochelle (as losing Challenge Cup finalist)
unless they come top 6 in which case...

Playoff between Us/Quins as losing Challenge Cup semifinalists
although I think the rules as written donít allow for this as one of us will be Top 6 so we go to...

7th place in the Gallagher Prem

If we are not Top 6, I THINK Quins have to be so if we finish Top 7, we should at worst be in a playoff (assuming La Rochelle stay top 6).

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: thekeg (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 18:35

I think beating Gloucester would definitely be enoughnkw even without LR finishing top 6

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: Yareet (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 18:38

Quote:
thekeg
I think beating Gloucester would definitely be enoughnkw even without LR finishing top 6

True

And itís definitely the best option as then we wouldnít be going into the 20th spot and wouldnít be in the lowest seeding.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: iBozz (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 19:15

Quote:
Irish_Shark
Saracens winning helps

FT: Leinster 10-20 Saracens



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Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: thekeg (IP Logged)
Date: 11 May, 2019 20:49

Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
thekeg
I think beating Gloucester would definitely be enoughnkw even without LR finishing top 6

True

And itís definitely the best option as then we wouldnít be going into the 20th spot and wouldnít be in the lowest seeding.

Not if winning still means we finish 7th

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: Cornerball (IP Logged)
Date: 18 May, 2019 22:45

So we've finished 7th after Baths last ditch effort. To qualify for the Champions Cup we need LA Rochelle to finish on the top 6?



Cornerball

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It's too small

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 18 May, 2019 22:55

Yeah. They have Bordeaux at home and they canít make the top 6 so should have nothing to play for. Plus, the are a French team away from home.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: H's D (IP Logged)
Date: 18 May, 2019 23:34

We are not quite home and dry.
La Rochelle are 5 points clear of Montpelier who have won 3 less games in the League.
However that doesn't that make it impossible for Montpelier to overhaul them!
Mostly because they have a game in hand.
If Montpelier beat Stade Francaise tomorrow it's still wide open.
Moreover.......
TOP14 rules
In the event of a tie on points, league position is then decided on league points earned in matches between the two teams. Failing that points scored in the two games..
Montpelier won easily at home (36-14) with a 4 try bonus point and lost narrowly (27-25) with a narrow loss losing bonus point away v La Rochelle.
Their couple of extra bonus points would mean that Montpelier still could indeed finish 6th, even if they lose tomorrow.

We won't know for certain till the afternoon of the 25th May.
Either way they will need a better result in the final round than the winner of tomorrow's match...
AND
La Rochelle will need at least a point Home v Bordeaux Begles (9th) to stay 6th IF Montpelier somehow manage to score a bonus point win away at Clermont (who have finished 2nd)!

However it's looking like an odds-on certainty that we will indeed be in the Champions Cup next season.(Sm152)
I'm happily clucking, going into lay mode.....



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 19/05/2019 00:04 by H's D.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 06:18

If montpellier lose stade Francais move into contention as they play pau next week

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: ale shark (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 06:38

Given that we dropped from 5 to 7 whilst I was on the shuttle bus due to late scores elsewhere I donít think itís safe to assume anything! La Rochelle can still come 4th so at least theyíve got an incentive to keep going rather than settle for 7th.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: Sussex Shark (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 06:48

Plus La Rochelle I would have thought would want to get into the play offs which is top 6 in France I think. So still a lot to play for over there.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: H's D (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 08:17

Quote:
Irish shark
If montpellier lose stade Francais move into contention as they play pau next week
Didn't....
"We won't know for certain till the afternoon of the 25th May.
Either way they (La Rochelle) will need a better result in the final round than the winner of tomorrow's match (between Montpelier & Stade Francais)... "
say exactly that...?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/05/2019 08:19 by H's D.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: DaveAitch (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 08:44

By the time the final round comes round Clermont might be not in a position to come first in the league. They might play their second string in the final match and gift the opposition a win. I know it's unlikely for any side to field an intentionally weakened team in any game, but there is just that possibility.

I think the most points for any game is France is 6. The bonus try points are awarded for finishing with more tries than the opposition (is it three?), so only one team can register a try bonus. With the 'right' result both of today's teams, Montpellier and Stade Francais, can stay in contention. Interestingly, if my interpretation of the French rules has been correct, neither Sale nor Gloucester would have had a try bonus point from yesterday's game.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: H's D (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 09:04

Not quite correct Dave... Especially in that one team can only score a maximum of 5 points from a match.
The sixth point for the loser is as rare as hen's teeth. I can't even find a single example.
The reason:
Quote:
wiki
France's bonus point system operates as follows:
4 points for a win.
2 points for a draw.
1 bonus point for winning while scoring at least 3 more tries than the opponent. This replaces the standard bonus point for scoring 4 tries regardless of the match result.
1 bonus point for losing by 5 points (or fewer). The margin had been 7 points until being changed prior to the 2014Ė15 season.

To lose by more than three tries but stay within 5 points is a Herculean achievement.

However a draw would indeed leave it down to the relative results in the final round....La Rochelle would need to win to be certain of staying sixth.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 19/05/2019 09:07 by H's D.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: DaveAitch (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 09:22

You may be right on the losing bonus point, H's D. I think it was 7, as here, but they downgraded to 5 a few seasons ago, but I can't say that I have looked since and maybe it doesn't exist now.


In some ways the French try bonus system is more sensible than the straight bonus point for four tries or more.

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 10:06

We would have against Leicester. We scored 5 tries. Donít think they scored any?

Re: Champions Cup Place Without a Top 6 Finish?
Posted by: philthefluter (IP Logged)
Date: 19 May, 2019 10:49

Up to last week most people were of the opinion (me included) that if Sarries beat Leinster then 7th place in the Premiership qualified for the Champions Cup.

What's changed? Why is that now not the case?

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