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Back up scrum half
Posted by: BasilBullneck (IP Logged)
Date: 22 May, 2019 12:56

looking to next season, it strikes me that the main weakness in our backs is at No9.

Faf will be on RWC duty for the start of the season, with the chance that he will be shot after that for some time having played nonstop for the best part of 2 years. Our first choice will be Cliff with back up from Gus Warr. One injury to those two and the cupboard is bare.

As far as Cliff is concerned, while he is a steady eddie, he doesn't pose enough of a threat himself. With the knowledge the ball is going out to the first receiver, the opposition back row aren't sufficiently interested, and that means there is less time than ever for the outside backs.

I think it would be desirable to have another alternative. I see Dave Lewis, formerly of Chiefs and latterly of Quins, is out of contract. He turned the game in favour of Chiefs a couple of years ago. Also, more as a stop gap, Fortauli is also available. He's lost some pace, but can still do a job. And with having had Phillips and Stringer there, he would be a relative spring chicken.

It would be a shame to have the talent we have in the outside backs wasted by not being able to get the ball to them.

Thoughts.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: Olyy (IP Logged)
Date: 22 May, 2019 14:14

Dimes did mention that due to our recruitment we won't have to flog our starters so much - and specifically mentioned Faf in the list of players who won't have to play as much.

Not sure whether he mean Rob du Preez arriving meant they can trust the academy 9s to get more game time alongside an experienced 10 as opposed to this season where our 2nd choice flyhalf was a centre.

I wouldn't be surprised to see James Mitchell signed, he's left Connacht and not announced where he's going, and has played well for them whenever I've watched him there.
Not sure I'd place him above Wilf, skill wise, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of trust in him from the coaching staff based on how little he plays

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: StalyShark (IP Logged)
Date: 22 May, 2019 15:28

Not sure I'd place him above Wilf, skill wise, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of trust in him from the coaching staff based on how little he plays[/quote]

Iíd like to do what he does for his pay packet! Pretty much stealing a living!

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 22 May, 2019 15:56

Unfair. Last season he played well when called upon. This year heís been poor I think but the whole attack hasnít functioned so a bit lazy to just blame him. Heís good at slowing the game down at the end and doesnít have the brain fart tendency that Faf has, which scare me when we are leading with 5 mins to go.

Still I agree itís a bit of an issue. I think Dimes comment may be down to all the recruitment. Having a non creative 9 isnít such an issue when your beast back is creating holes. Faf had to create at times when our pack struggled to get over the gainline. Faf has such ability that that wasnít so big of an issue, but it is for Cliff.

Cliff is a good kicker and has a lovely pass. Off front foot ball with a plethora of carrying options we should be fine.

Signing Mitchell feels like a backwards step.

Warr has looked lively and may kick on.

Quirke is too young but well liked

Or other 9 whoís name escapes me didnít look close to being good enough so will have to improve a lot.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: BasilBullneck (IP Logged)
Date: 23 May, 2019 14:08

Lewis has just announced his retirement! How inconsiderate!!

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: DaveAitch (IP Logged)
Date: 23 May, 2019 17:47

I suppose there is always the possibility of use AJ MacGinty there if the necessity arises.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: thekeg (IP Logged)
Date: 23 May, 2019 21:18

Quote:
DaveAitch
I suppose there is always the possibility of use AJ MacGinty there if the necessity arises.

Where have you pulled that suggestion from?

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
Date: 23 May, 2019 22:53

Quote:
thekeg
Quote:
DaveAitch
I suppose there is always the possibility of use AJ MacGinty there if the necessity arises.

Where have you pulled that suggestionp from?
at age grades he played scrum half I believe and on occasion when faf was carded he deputised pretty well.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
Date: 24 May, 2019 08:44

I actually think that when Will has come on this season, he has been much more than a Ďsteady eddie Ď really challenging the line and often injecting pace into the game....

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: clutch (IP Logged)
Date: 24 May, 2019 10:54

I think that often happens when a new 9 comes on.

I think as a bullpen closing pitcher he does a good job but I donít want him as part of the starting rotation.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: StalyShark (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2019 14:59

Whether he would be happy playing second fiddle to Faf is another idea:

[www.rugbypass.com]

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: 45jumper (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2019 15:55

Cliff played extremely well this season, I'd go as far to say that he was in better form than Faf relative to their natural abilities.
He's an excellent backup, a great clubman and will give us academy credits too - invaluable for the salary cap. He can back up Faf until one of Warr, Sturgess or Quirke break through - it's a perfect solution IMO.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: thekeg (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2019 20:44

Quote:
45jumper
Cliff played extremely well this season, I'd go as far to say that he was in better form than Faf relative to their natural abilities.
He's an excellent backup, a great clubman and will give us academy credits too - invaluable for the salary cap. He can back up Faf until one of Warr, Sturgess or Quirke break through - it's a perfect solution IMO.

I think heís done pretty well off the bench closing games out and as a senior player in a rotated side full of youngsters, but his limitations were pretty apparent in that first 6 games in the premiership when we struggled. However there were also issues with the pack and it will be interesting to see how he goes with a bigger pack that gets over the gainline more

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: Yareet (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2019 21:31

Quote:
StalyShark
Whether he would be happy playing second fiddle to Faf is another idea:
[www.rugbypass.com]

Quins fans took time to warm to SHG (brain fart in an early game didnít help) but on balance seem to like him.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: H's D (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2019 21:34

A lot of scrum-halves get inappropriate criticism if their pack is underperforming.
They suddenly become "far better players" behind a dominant pack that clears out quickly and presents the ball well.
e.g. Wiggy.
There is abolutely no point in trying to treat slow ball as quick go forward ball.
Always best to try and draw an offside or make sure everything is in place before trying a box kick or running the ball with a planned backs move, all based on what's facing you.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: thekeg (IP Logged)
Date: 15 June, 2019 21:38

Quote:
H's D
A lot of scrum-halves get inappropriate criticism if their pack is underperforming.
They suddenly become "far better players" behind a dominant pack that clears out quickly and presents the ball well.
e.g. Wiggy.
There is abolutely no point in trying to treat slow ball as quick go forward ball.
Always best to try and draw an offside or make sure everything is in place before trying a box kick or running the ball with a planned backs move, all based on what's facing you.

Yes, I agree they can become a focal point for criticism because they are so visible/exposed

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: Yareet (IP Logged)
Date: 16 June, 2019 09:59

Quote:
H's D
Always best to try and draw an offside or make sure everything is in place before trying a box kick

Are you excusing the human centipede????

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: ageinghoody (IP Logged)
Date: 17 June, 2019 08:38

Seems to me that the criticism Will is getting is in a similar vein to that previously aimed at Nick Macleod.

Will isn't Faf and Nick wasn't Charlie. Both steady and solid, doing a competent job, but both criticised (excessively in my opinion) for not having that special spark that their comparitors have/had.

I still reckon Macleod, especially his goal kicking, kept us in the Premiership in one of the later EP seasons!

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: StalyShark (IP Logged)
Date: 17 June, 2019 10:42

The real problem lies in the fact that he isnít trusted for more than 5-10 minutes even when the game is dead (unless itís an absolute hammering either way) therefore why have him? A back up who isnít ďbacked upĒ by the coaching staff to play isnít much use.

Re: Back up scrum half
Posted by: ageinghoody (IP Logged)
Date: 17 June, 2019 11:00

Quote:
StalyShark
The real problem lies in the fact that he isnít trusted for more than 5-10 minutes even when the game is dead (unless itís an absolute hammering either way) therefore why have him? A back up who isnít ďbacked upĒ by the coaching staff to play isnít much use.

I get the impression, unless injuries intervene, that frequently applies to a significant proportion of our bench.

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