Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Curmujjen (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 00:16

...is what Saracens have been.

This former rugby supporter now re-defines himself as a Saracens supporter, and only and strictly a Saracens supporter. The rest of English elite rugby can go @#$%& itself.

I'm looking forward to a visit to Goldington Road next season (always a pleasure) but when Sarries are back in the Prem, no away games for me. The bitter, envious clubs who have so shafted Sarries will not see another penny of my money. My away budget will instead be spent on a couple of trips to see my second-favourite club, ASM Clermont Auvergne.

I have been at every final Sarries have been in but, if Sarries ever get to the Prem final again, I'll not be there. Why? Because the gate money gets "smoothed" across the entire Prem, the @#$%&.

I will not even support England anymore. I'm supporting France in the 6N.

@#$%& you English rugby, @#$%& you to hell.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Convex Hull (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 00:19

I have much the same view...



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Coughie (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 00:22

Suzie baby you were good to me
Giving your love unselfishly
But you took it all too seriously
And blamed it on the wine...



~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: ElephantJuice (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 00:53

Quote:
Curmujjen
...is what Saracens have been.
This former rugby supporter now re-defines himself as a Saracens supporter, and only and strictly a Saracens supporter. The rest of English elite rugby can go @#$%& itself.

I'm looking forward to a visit to Goldington Road next season (always a pleasure) but when Sarries are back in the Prem, no away games for me. The bitter, envious clubs who have so shafted Sarries will not see another penny of my money. My away budget will instead be spent on a couple of trips to see my second-favourite club, ASM Clermont Auvergne.

I have been at every final Sarries have been in but, if Sarries ever get to the Prem final again, I'll not be there. Why? Because the gate money gets "smoothed" across the entire Prem, the @#$%&.

I will not even support England anymore. I'm supporting France in the 6N.

@#$%& you English rugby, @#$%& you to hell.

Bloody well good on you - nail your colours to the flag and bollocks to everyone else. As a Gloucester fan this has been our mentality for about 20 years.

You’re about to find out who are the actual fans, the chaff of the glory hunters and out for a jolly guys, will fall away.

Welcome to the club “everyone hates us, we don’t care”.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: JL904 (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 01:27

I can understand the anger of Curmujjen and Convex Hull - but I can't agree that we've been done up like a kipper.

In view of the seriousness and scale of our cheating the SC regs (no euphemisms - it was cheating pure and simple), relegation is quite appropriate, and absolutely justified.

It's also fair, since we now have a season and a half + two summer breaks to properly clean house financially whilst players who will be out of contract have time to consider moving on, salary cuts or retirement as appropriate.

However -

whilst I consider the end punishment fair, the way it has been arrived at - and imposed - is comic and tragic in equal measure. The only thing more shambolic would be a bunch of one-legged men in an ar$e kicking contest.

Inspector Clouseau & the Keystone Cops couldn't have made a worse job than PRL have done of investigating, prosecuting and closing the mess surrounding the whole issue regarding the cap. The management of the organisation is a joke - a professional league run by well meaning but bumbling amateurs.

I'm not sure anyone will emerge with much credit, and so I hope that it won't only be our club who learn lessons from the whole shameful saga.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: wolfgangvonb77 (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 01:27

I agree with Elephant juice 100%

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: wolfgangvonb77 (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 02:08

Zzzzzzzzz's

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Convex Hull (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 02:24

I am not angry JL904, I watch the Premiership matches and, despite all the BT froth, more often than not I ask myself 'why am I watching this dross?" around 60 minutes.

I have been watching and playing rugby since the era of Dickie Jeeps, it has always has been a passion, but it seems horribly stale and formulaic nowadays. Kick to the corner, rolling maul, penalty. Time after time after time after time.

In truth, I find women's rugby more enjoyable to watch, nowadays.

It seems that this appalling mess created by Saracens inept management, which you describe so well, is a fitting natural end state of the current 'product' peddled by PRL and BT. The sheer nastiness from all quarters about something that could have been resolved with little effort and some goodwill by all parties just reinforces my impression that the English game is at a nadir.

Goodness knows why anyone would feel the need to twist and turn around the salary cap, to be best at something with so little merit.

It was more fun to watch when the club was at VR and bumping along the bottom of the league. The magic has gone for me, perhaps I should check the state of local club rugby.



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/01/2020 02:28 by Convex Hull.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: JL904 (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 03:10

Dickie Jeeps eh ?

Crikey, I was only just in short kecks at the end of his international career, played at school in the 70's, HM Forces in the 80's/90's (Union and League).

Agree much of the pro game as a spectacle is absolute drooge - top level womens game is much more enjoyable, and your local club is almost certain to be much more akin to the game we played.

There's a lot of bile and spite, for sure - and scores being settled to boot. Understandable to a degree - but we as fans/supporters are not guilty of financial chicanery. That's down to the bean counters at the club, and opposing fans popping at us are aiming at the wrong target. Such is life.

Love your signature btw.



Wars begin when you will, but they do not end when you please - Niccolo Machiavelli

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Stevie_Wonder (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 08:54

You supporters, along with all staff at the club who had no involvement, have been done up like kippers... by Nigel Wray.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Sorry Sarrie (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 08:58

Going to be an interesting atmosphere on Sunday!!



My wife and I are on the verge of splitting up because of my obsession with rugby.
I've decided to give it one last try......

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Exiled Falcon (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 09:15

Hopefully when you sober up Curmujjen you’ll realise that this post wasn’t possibly your finest hour. I personally don’t want to go and @&&&£ myself, others may do however.

And before anyone leaps on me, I genuinely hope you guys win on Sunday and get out of this mess intact, met some great Sarries supporters and they neither deserve to be represented by this post nor have bitter supporters of other clubs coming on here gloating.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 09:26

Most supporters of other clubs come on here to see the reaction and, perhaps to comment about the conduct of the management. Then they see threads with titles like this and the contents of the OP with their own clubs being blamed for the fact that Saracens have been caught cheating. Many on here can see that Saracens are at fault and that punishment is due. If it were my club I don't know where my head would be, probably angry that my own club's management had lied to me along with everyone else. But ascribing all this to the envy of others is simply wrong.

My club was relegated whilst Saracens cheated. There's no direct connection, we weren't good enough. But we had huge problems recruiting in the Championship, having to pay over the odds for Premiership standard players whose wage demands were doubtless already inflated by Saracens pushing up player costs for all clubs. The consequences of cheating the salary cap wasn't just building a squad of a higher standard than otherwise possible but also in changing how other sides tried to compete and changing the cost of competing for everyone. Yes, Saracens have been successful and played some great rugby but that was achieved on the back of systematic and long-term rule-breaking that fundamentally undermined the competition as a whole. The fact that supporters and PRL are unhappy about this is down to Saracens conduct alone.

How can you say that you will only support Saracens and not the rest when without the rest you have no competition? And how can you have a competition when one competitor plays by different rules?

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Chilham (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 09:36

Quote:
Gray_Lensman
Most supporters of other clubs come on here to see the reaction and, perhaps to comment about the conduct of the management. Then they see threads with titles like this and the contents of the OP with their own clubs being blamed for the fact that Saracens have been caught cheating. Many on here can see that Saracens are at fault and that punishment is due. If it were my club I don't know where my head would be, probably angry that my own club's management had lied to me along with everyone else. But ascribing all this to the envy of others is simply wrong.
My club was relegated whilst Saracens cheated. There's no direct connection, we weren't good enough. But we had huge problems recruiting in the Championship, having to pay over the odds for Premiership standard players whose wage demands were doubtless already inflated by Saracens pushing up player costs for all clubs. The consequences of cheating the salary cap wasn't just building a squad of a higher standard than otherwise possible but also in changing how other sides tried to compete and changing the cost of competing for everyone. Yes, Saracens have been successful and played some great rugby but that was achieved on the back of systematic and long-term rule-breaking that fundamentally undermined the competition as a whole. The fact that supporters and PRL are unhappy about this is down to Saracens conduct alone.

How can you say that you will only support Saracens and not the rest when without the rest you have no competition? And how can you have a competition when one competitor plays by different rules?

This.

There are many genuine Sarries supporters who realise the gravity of what the club has done, and the impact that it has had to our game. It must be a dreadful feeling and I sympathise with them. Others, like the OP, not so much.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 09:52

Gray is spot on.
I've not seen any posts having 'a pop' at the Salaries supporters (except those patently in denial), just sympathy for the situation the lying cheat Nigel Wray has put them in.
All the anger has been directed at the Salaries club, in particular the corrupt, lying, cheating management.

The OP of this thread was hopefullly very drunk and wallowing in his anger and lashing out. If not, (s)he has no concept of sport, or the ethos of sport, let alone the core values that the RFU have promoted for the last 15+ years, and is a disgrace.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Roger G (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 10:26

I'm sure the title of this thread is meant to imply that Sarries, as a club have been "done up like kippers".

Personally I'm less bothered about that than me, as a supporter, being done up like a kipper....although, without the elusive report being published, I'm not sure by whom! I can only imagine that either some information about payments/loans/investments was withheld from the SCM by Sarries, or the SCM failed to process/audit the Sarries books correctly, starting from 3 years ago. One or other or both are culpable and the result for me, after 20 years of avidly following Sarries (despite having ticket prices unreasonably hiked along the way) and the sport in general, is feeling utterly let down by all parties. The least they could do, on both sides, is to fess up i.e. publish the details.

Edit: Before somebody tells me to "suck it up - Sarries have been caught", I want to explain that I accept that, but what has caused serious doubt in my mind as to what the club's offence actually is are the words Lord Dyson used in his podcast interview i.e. "PRL's broad definition of Salary". That suggests that, under other circumstances the offence, or at least the enormity of it, might have been judged differently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/01/2020 10:32 by Roger G.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: Bathovalballer (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 10:36

I wonder what Saracens supporters would think and say if another club was found guilty of breaking the regulations consistently for at least 3 seasons if not more, and had enjoyed huge success because of it to their and others detriment? Plus of course all those players who have lost their livelihoods as a result of being relegated.

I have huge sympathy for the genuine Saracens fans and true rugby ethos supporters, but for goodness sake some of you need to accept you have been found out and the sooner you understand that and accept the punishments, the better.

In my view, and probably more importantly, it is the damage to the rest of the game that has been done by this dreadful farago. Making the 10.00 o'clock news with this subject is not the publicity our game needs at anytime. If my club were involved in such chenanigans I would be mortified and expect the draconian consequences with humility. Not try and justify the club's actions. I know Bath were caught up in salary cap irregularities in the past and sincerely hope we have learnt our lessen and never transgress knowingly again. I don't wish ill on any club but we all must stick to the rules of the game or we have anarchy and an unequal competition.

Best of luck to a club I thoroughly enjoyed playing against when George Sheriff was playing for England, back in the amateur days of you're. The true rugby people of Saracens deserve better.



Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
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Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: mrangry (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 10:37

Although I do not go to away Premiership matches these days I think there is no point in "punishing" clubs by not spending money in their grounds. What stinks, like skippers, is the total lack of transparency in the issue. How can anyone declare the club and Nigel Wray of anything when we are not allowed to know the details. PRL stinks,because it refuses to divulge facts, and the so called "fans" of other clubs (as above) excoriate Saracens without knowledge of all the facts. In the best interests of English rugby the findings should be published in full, so the extent of the "cheating" can be seen. Then if it is clear that Wray and those around him did deliberately break the salary cap, then we too can join in the criticism. But if there is only evidence of the overpayment we can argue that the vituperation is not fully justified. In order to avoid torture the facts must be made public. We have the right to know.

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: maynas (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 11:00

What amazes me on this is that with so many people having had access it hasn’t yet leaked onto the web. Not much else would be so secret. Maybe PRL should take over MI6?

Re: Done up like kippers...
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 18 January, 2020 11:34

Too many trolls.

This thread will shortly be closed.



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