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Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 11:12

Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
The off feet clear out at the ruck is a pet peeve of mine. Players launching themselves like an Exocet into the ruck. Oh but they cleared out successfully so thatís alright.
Doesnít look like that is going to be challenged.

J

+1

Someone is going to get seriously hurt and I guess then something will be done to crack down on it.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 11:38

'Someone is going to get seriously hurt'

Going to get? There are loads of examples of players getting hurt in this way. But the crackdown on no-arms and high shots is more important than worrying precisely whether the player was supporting their own weight at the point of impact.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 12:36

A local ex player I know was a 7, got to play a few games in the English championship level. Gave up being a 7 because of spinal problems, dropped down several levels to reinvent as a 12 but eventually retired altogether at a young age about 2 years ago. He believes the impacts whilst over the ball were the reason for his troubles. You can't take chances with that sort of injury.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Sarriebone (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 13:47

Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
The off feet clear out at the ruck is a pet peeve of mine. Players launching themselves like an Exocet into the ruck. Oh but they cleared out successfully so thatís alright.
Doesnít look like that is going to be challenged.

J

Hope you don't mind a Sarries interloper on this subject. This bugs me no end, in terms of on field behaviour it has to class as one of the worst. If you watch the Nic White try for Ex this weekend in the ruck before last two Ex players come flying in off their feet, should have been one of the easiest penalties the ref could (should?) have given. At around 0:25 in this video [twitter.com]

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 13:55

Quote:
Sarriebone
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
The off feet clear out at the ruck is a pet peeve of mine. Players launching themselves like an Exocet into the ruck. Oh but they cleared out successfully so thatís alright.
Doesnít look like that is going to be challenged.

J

Hope you don't mind a Sarries interloper on this subject. This bugs me no end, in terms of on field behaviour it has to class as one of the worst. If you watch the Nic White try for Ex this weekend in the ruck before last two Ex players come flying in off their feet, should have been one of the easiest penalties the ref could (should?) have given. At around 0:25 in this video [twitter.com]

I haven't looked at the video, but I'll guess Jonny Hill was one of those diving straight off his feet. He does it at 90% of the rucks he gets involved in.
Players really should be forced to make an effort to stay on their feet when entering a ruck.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 14:01

Good example! That one is like an old fashioned 'pile on' - very clearly no attempt by several of them to stay on feet.



[Adoptee: Tom Doughty - dynamic hooker born in Brighton, made at Team Bath. Record for BUCS top try scorer within a season]

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 18:32

Thanks PG

Best thread currently on 'ere!

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 18:40

Quote:
BathMatt53
Good example! That one is like an old fashioned 'pile on' - very clearly no attempt by several of them to stay on feet.

And that one isnít the worst. Heís to the side and rolls him. Itís the full on flying straight into a hunched over player that is dangerous.

J

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 15 November, 2019 20:43

For clarity, the relevant law says that once the ball has been thrown into the scrum a member of the side putting in's front row must attempt to hook the ball, it doesn't stipulate hooker. Technical I know and you wouldn't do it that way on purpose but a prop can hook the ball too. Only the front row can play the ball in the tunnel in the same way only props can bind on an opponent.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 16 November, 2019 09:21

Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
Quote:
B4thB4ck
Good points, the ruck is the wild west. Of course if you are over the ball on your feet it is the head which sticks forward and is vulnerable. Hard to think of a way to improve it but I would say that releasing the ball immediately would help. This trend of giving the tackled player more time to place the ball whilst wriggling and rolling around only allows support to come in from further away with momentum whilst the first defender who wasnt allowed to pick up the ball awaits the inevitable car crash moment.

I must admit youíve got to have balls of steel to be a modern day jackal. Like the article said, two 100kg blokes coming at you to smash you back and you are ferreting about trying to steal a ball that has been ďplaced / heldĒ is brave.
J

Just picking up.on this a bit further, so the tackled player should release the ball immediately when they go to ground. Refs used to penalise the extra roll over the ball and wriggle with no release but now don't which gives supporting attackers time to hit rucks from extra distance which means more momentum and more chance of injury to the defenders.

If you charge in to clear out from several metres going off your feet seems inevitable.

The flow of the game looks better because there is more retention of the ball over phases. It feels to me that some players are paying a price for the sake of a better game to watch.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16 November, 2019 10:30

Quote:
B4thB4ck
Refs used to penalise the extra roll over the ball and wriggle with no release but now don't which gives supporting attackers time to hit rucks from extra distance which means more momentum and more chance of injury to the defenders.

Agree with this if you fall the wrong way, then tough. Wriggling is just a way of deferring the attempted turnover. Its all gone too far away from the original and ends up being halfway between an old fashioned ruck and an on the feet contest.



https://i.ibb.co/pZ68Lvp/Ollie-Fox.jpg

Ollie Fox - England U20 international scrum half, youngest of our four 9's. If you are good enough, you're old enough!

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2019 15:31

I've always thought the creative answer to this is that the first player arriving MUST play the ball, not bridge. Get the ball away, reduce the constant attrition of the structured pick and go, this way you get one on one tackles, not piles of bodies and while we are at it, interpret pre-binding before contact as obstruction



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/11/2019 15:51 by Trawling.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2019 16:14

And while we are at it, the pop from the floor after being tackled seems madness.

Tackle and release. You are on the floor, no business touching it once placing the ball.

J

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2019 16:27

Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
And while we are at it, the pop from the floor after being tackled seems madness.
Tackle and release. You are on the floor, no business touching it once placing the ball.

J

I disagree - a standard tackle doesn't need to be rewarded with a 50/50 grab for possession.

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2019 16:51

Law says pass or place, which is right. If the ball is just randomly released you are even more likely get piles of players over an unplayable ball. Actually I think most referees are pretty good at spotting the extra roll or the extra push of the ball away from the tackle. You need to remember that to be accurate, the ref effectively needs to be one of the first to arrive at EVERY breakdown for 80 minutes. Not even Sam Underhill has to do that!

Re: ASK THE REF
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 18 November, 2019 18:43

I suppose where Iím coming from is where does a pop from the tackle end and playing it on the floor begin?

For me it should almost be instantaneous. Seen it where the tackle is clearly complete and thereís a couple of beats then the pop.

Guess itís up to the ref. Donít get me wrong, thereís a place, itís just pushing the boundaries sometimes.

J

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