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Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 16:38

Mclaren is an interesting one. I find it intriguing that they didn't do the obvious and build the first electric super car. Obviously anyone trying to flog an expensive petrol motor these days is fairly much doomed. Tesla is so far ahead of anyone I think many firms like VW, Ford, Daimler and so on are going to struggle to stay alive. It's not about battery tech, that can be bought, it's about the software and these firms are nowhere.

Mclaren would have been ideally placed to get in early with their knowledge of the hybrid electrical systems etc. Oh well.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 17:41

Good afternoon

Tesla have done outstandingly well in selling their cars, but they also seem to have worked out what an electric vehicle could do sustainably and who would buy it.

They then made cars to that market and have really struggled to break out of it.

The Model 3 as the affordable electric car still isn't available, it is selling well but isn't affordable by most criteria.

A lot of the self driving stuff seems to be the same, it is pretty good, but if you rely on it it's not yet quite ready, it mostly works.

It is tempting to say that it is early days and it will get better, possibly but if they have gone down the wrong route it is quite possible that they are already near the best that can be done.

As I understand the self driving tech, nobody is using a generic Artifical Intelligence that has been taught to drive. Instead they are using technology that doesn't "understand" what it is doing and this is why you can get the really odd results such as;

The self driving car driving into stationary objects, especially when the vehicle in front changes lane. For a human the car in front changing lane is a warning signal especially if it is unexpected.

The self driving car driving down the dividing lane between a slip road and the lanes. The car doesn't "understand" what a lane and a slip road are, it "understands" lanes defined by white lines not that they are part of a larger system that has joiners and leavers.

I suspect that without the overall appreciation of what it is doing the self driving car will always have too many accidents based on a misunderstanding.

In many systems there is a fail safe option, a missile might self destruct if it loses contact with its target, but what is the fail safe option for a car? Jam on the brakes every time there might be something that it detectors don't recognise? Or course then there is the problem of a system recognising that it doesn't recognise something critical.

The reactions to COVID 19 suggest that the politicians and commentators aren't ready to say human operated cars kill twice as many people as computer operated ones, so that really odd looking accident where a self driving car mounted the pavement and ran into a queue of people was part of that saving.

In the USA NASA grounded the shuttle after both the Challenger and Columbia accidents for a very long period of time, yet both accidents seemed to be well within the limits of informed consent by the professional astronauts.

In the UK nearly everywhere has a speed limit of 70mph or less yet cars who really only come into their own at 100+ still sell well.

Could McLaren put on sale a car that does 200 miles on a charge at 60mph at 20C yet only 30 miles at 120mph when it is freezing? Formula E is still experimenting with how many gears a car needs and they top out at less that a Super Car at under 200mph.

Slowly, very slowly the motoring giants are catching up with Tesla and now Tesla is starting to get old tech investment that it needs to write off or prolong its life at the expense of progress.

Up until now Tesla has been investing and everything it had was new and cutting edge, unlike Ford etc who had new ICE factories whose set up costs needed to be absorbed.

Bye

Ian

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 20:34

The Koreans are coming the Koreans are coming! Electric cars will be affordable and soon. They won’t be as good as a Tesla but they will be “good enough” for most people.

The weak will die and the decent will survive. Weak list perhaps Subaru, Suzuki, Jaguar, Land Rover, General Motors (again!) plus a few others I can’t even think of!

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 21:35

Interesting comments. Korea seems to be the home of the affordable electric car. The Kia and Hyundai are fairly compelling and I can see mass market appeal there. Good on them, they look like great cars. As for Tesla getting old or running out of steam, the guy is landing rocket boosters remotely on drone boats. I reckon he's got a bit of mileage in him yet. Which other EV can do an OTA update? Are there any? I'm not sure. Our phones have been doing it for a decade or so.

That's not to even scratch the surface of what he's going to do with our energy markets.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 26 June, 2020 22:08

Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
Interesting comments. Korea seems to be the home of the affordable electric car. The Kia and Hyundai are fairly compelling and I can see mass market appeal there. Good on them, they look like great cars. As for Tesla getting old or running out of steam, the guy is landing rocket boosters remotely on drone boats. I reckon he's got a bit of mileage in him yet. Which other EV can do an OTA update? Are there any? I'm not sure. Our phones have been doing it for a decade or so.
That's not to even scratch the surface of what he's going to do with our energy markets.

Bang on!! A revolutionary!!

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 08:07

Good morning,

Quote:
Ozzy Osbone
Interesting comments. Korea seems to be the home of the affordable electric car. The Kia and Hyundai are fairly compelling and I can see mass market appeal there. Good on them, they look like great cars. As for Tesla getting old or running out of steam, the guy is landing rocket boosters remotely on drone boats. I reckon he's got a bit of mileage in him yet. Which other EV can do an OTA update? Are there any? I'm not sure. Our phones have been doing it for a decade or so.
That's not to even scratch the surface of what he's going to do with our energy markets.

Musk is very good at self promotion and getting people to give him money to do things, but they are not anywhere near as leading edge as they might appear.

If you look at Space X superficially it is amazing, a private company providing reusable rockets.

When you get further into the details and you see how much of Space X is NASA and the Apollo program updated it is less so.

Yes landing the lower stage of the rocket so that it can be reused appears neat but NASA could have done it and didn't, the real question is does it achieve anything useful?

Landing vertically reduces the capacity of the rocket as it needs to carry descent fuel, potentially it reduces the capacity of the rocket motors if you want them to be reusable rather than mostly replaced. The Falcon 9 loses about 1/3 of its lift capacity to geostationary orbit if you recover the first stage, ir drops from 8,300kg to 5,500kg.

The saving of resources used to make the rockets is tiny and the financial costs of recovery and restoration are going to eat very heavily into the savings made by reuse. These savings will be further reduced for failed landings. There is also the issue of do you delay a launch because the conditions are okay for a launch but not recovery.

If you think that I am being unfair ask yourself the question; Why did Space X build rebuild the Saturn 5 a proven working design rather than the Shuttle a design which was deemed too risky?

If you look at things like the vacuum transport system, it looks great but what happens in the event of an accident? The channel tunnel had to build separate tunnels for this.

The OTA update was a Tesla first but it wasn't new tech and it is by no means clear that it is a good thing. For example a while back a magazine published an article pointing out that performance in ABS system was not as good as it could be. Within a few days Tesla did an OTA update of the ABS system in every car, fortunately this rushed update worked.

Powerwalls are again existing battery tech presented as something new and wonderful.

I certainly support the idea that Tesla shook up a complacent set of car makers and got usable electric cars out first. I do think that you may be underestimating the advantage of being a new company with people allowed to have new ideas along with no historic investments gave them.

This advantage is disappearing and the difficulty of building the Model 3 as the affordable car shows that when cost matters and you can't use presentation to distract Tesla are just as restricted as existing car makers.

VAG, Ford, General Motors could have built a Model S, but they didn't because they weren't motivated. The E-Golf is starting to become "The" electric car because VW know how to make and sell cars.

Bye

Ian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/06/2020 08:22 by IanSmithISA.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 09:27

No Tesla = No other mainstream electric cars. Good or bad he disrupted the market!

Shame he didn’t invent a hydrogen network of super chargers but hey ho! For me electric is the future and hydrogen a missed opportunity.

Did anyone see the article about Dysons prototype?? 600mile range! £150k 7 seater! Perfect for the wife to take to the supermarket!!

Solid state batteries apparently will change everything very soon.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 14:52

Bernie Ecclestone! W T F was he thinking saying what he said! Unbelievable, surprising, disappointing and inexcusable!

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: rpaloschi (IP Logged)
Date: 27 June, 2020 16:16

I think you are spot on, except on the 'unexpected' one. As far as that old piece of @#$%& is concerned

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 08:06

Good morning,

If you ignore the headlines what did he say that was wrong?

I am looking for specifics, a few sentences in context and an explanation of why he is so far wrong that it is not acceptable to say what he said.

The headlines that I have seen are the typical ones you get when someone asks the media and the population to think about the details of an issue.

I am not looking for "racism is bad and the headlines said Bernie is a racist" but what Bernie actually said.

Bye

Ian

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 08:13

Ecclestone, 89, told CNN that "in lots of cases, black people are more racist than what white people are".

This OK to say Ian??

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: IanSmithISA (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 09:10

Good morning,

Yes, why not?

1) Bernie does believe it but it isn't true, okay he is wrong and there is an opportunity for education
but why shouldn't he say it?

2) Bernie does believe it and it is true, the elephant in the room. This idea isn't "allowed" to be even mentioned because it undermines the narrative that EVERYTHING that happens to a group isn't in anyway a consequence of their own actions.

3) Bernie doesn't believe it and it is a publicity stunt, okay then its bad.

4) Or another reason?

Why are you so sure that he is wrong, do you believe that all groups of people are equally racist or that some group are better than others and are less racist?

But isn't this the idea that you don't like, surely if you believe that one group of people is better than another then.....

Bye

Ian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/06/2020 09:16 by IanSmithISA.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: rpaloschi (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 09:12

Well, there is the problem in my opinion. People choose to look the other way and downplay whatever is said.
I was born white in a country where the majority of people is black/brown and still I can look back and see how much I had benefits from that.
Just think people...

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 15:35

What is going on with these Canadian billionaires and Williams!! Good positive news!! (About F1!)

[www.planetf1.com]

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: ihme (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 15:54

Quote:
Stu69
What is going on with these Canadian billionaires and Williams!! Good positive news!! (About F1!)
[www.planetf1.com]

(Sm22)

My god the comments...

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 18:11

The E Golf is rubbish in the face of a model 3. Plus, the model 3 was the best selling car of all in the UK in April 2020 (or May?). One or the other, maybe both. I don't think the e-golf was even top 10. VAG are in no place to respond because their software is naff. Believe me, once you have driven a Tesla, there is no going back for a very long while. I see no decent competitor on the market at the moment.

As for Hydrogen, as I have always argued, it was never going to take off. It may have some use somewhere but really the idea was to maintain the 'fuel service station' idea with big trucks carrying fuel around the country. A bit silly when there is a huge power source in the sky.

As for powerwalls, it is existing tech but improved. As far as I am aware the limitations of other batteries such as ex submarine bats etc. is that they cannot provide energy fast enough. There is no doubt that battery tech will continue to improve and that the Powerwall will soon be out of date but at the moment, it's a piece of kit that you can get installed easily and not have to watch a million youtube videos and fiddle about with high voltage wiring. For most people, that is appealing.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: dot_com (IP Logged)
Date: 28 June, 2020 18:18

Quote:
ihme
Quote:
Stu69
What is going on with these Canadian billionaires and Williams!! Good positive news!! (About F1!)
[www.planetf1.com]

(Sm22)

My god the comments...

I don’t frequent planetf1 just because I get so angry reading the comment section.

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Polemik (IP Logged)
Date: 29 June, 2020 10:34

Quote:
Stu69
What is going on with these Canadian billionaires and Williams!! Good positive news!! (About F1!)
[www.planetf1.com]

BAD JOKE (Sm147)thumbs up

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: andy si (IP Logged)
Date: 30 June, 2020 10:46

Quote:
Polemik
Quote:
Stu69
What is going on with these Canadian billionaires and Williams!! Good positive news!! (About F1!)
[www.planetf1.com]

BAD JOKE (Sm147)thumbs up

Williams started out with Saudia to get them positioned on their way to the top... why not have a connection with Israel if it gets them moving from the bottom? Israeli cycling program in World Tour is/was doing ok. Why shouldn't they make a start in F1 racing to do something similar?

Re: News and Stuff!
Posted by: Stu69 (IP Logged)
Date: 30 June, 2020 18:37

Quote:
andy si
Quote:
Polemik
Quote:
Stu69
What is going on with these Canadian billionaires and Williams!! Good positive news!! (About F1!)
[www.planetf1.com]

BAD JOKE (Sm147)thumbs up

Williams started out with Saudia to get them positioned on their way to the top... why not have a connection with Israel if it gets them moving from the bottom? Israeli cycling program in World Tour is/was doing ok. Why shouldn't they make a start in F1 racing to do something similar?

Why not!! Exactly!
Not as bad as PVDSA or whatever they were called!

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