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Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 10:01

Precisely Warriordad. Is Eastmond better than Lawrence? Absolutely not. Is he better than Ventor or Beck? Probably not, but thatís not to say heís a bad player and importantly gives us depth in a position where we are a bit light. If we get just 2 injuries at centres we are down to no back up (i donít consider Hearle as a centre). Eastmond would therefore be a valuable fringe player.

FWIW I donít think itíll happen. We are clearly dipping into the market sparingly this year, which is not necessarily a bad thing but we could have had signed some right gems given the Jaguares have disbanded, a load of Sarries players have left (albeit temporarily) and now Leicester have released a load of players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2020 10:03 by WorcesterSauce.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Garym (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 10:19

Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Precisely Warriordad. Is Eastmond better than Lawrence? Absolutely not. Is he better than Ventor or Beck? Probably not, but thatís not to say heís a bad player and importantly gives us depth in a position where we are a bit light. If we get just 2 injuries at centres we are down to no back up (i donít consider Hearle as a centre). Eastmond would therefore be a valuable fringe player.
FWIW I donít think itíll happen. We are clearly dipping into the market sparingly this year, which is not necessarily a bad thing but we could have had signed some right gems given the Jaguares have disbanded, a load of Sarries players have left (albeit temporarily) and now Leicester have released a load of players.

But it all costs money and isn't that what has got rugby into the mess that it is now in - hopefully no relegation again next season and the youngster can play without fear of relegation



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2020 15:39 by Garym.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 11:11

Of course - there is a price on Eastmond and it probably isnít worth it. But if two of Lawrence, Ventor and Beck get unlucky and go down with long term injuries we could be struggling. Just feel we havenít quite got the balance right yet. We have 3/4 centres yet 10 back rowers.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Bevere Warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 11:22

Isnít it nice that that for once itís not our players leaving, itís not our club involved in drama!
The club should be applauded for sorting all these contracts and offering some sort of security in such a turbulent time.
Feel genuinely very positive about our club at the moment and canít wait for the season to get started (whenever that will be).

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Warriordad (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 13:51

I think what surprises me is that these players will get less than 75% of their current pay at other clubs. Players had to sign a contract last week for only 75% of that to count towards the salary cap and these players have missed that boat. Other clubs will be right on that Salary cap as a result of it dropping. I can only see moves abroad for the vast majority of them, probably to Japan? Based on the above, i'd say these players wanted to leave regardless of salary issues.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: kiddykid (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 21:50

What does this mean for the England team IF the RFU stick to their guns?
It does open up more opportunities for Ďborderlineí players if the numbers emigrating continue to grow - and we havenít heard about Maro Itoje yet.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Asterz (IP Logged)
Date: 02 July, 2020 23:18

Sabbaticals work for NZ players, for example.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: TrueWarrior (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 07:25

If we need a tactical change, I would rather it came through Searle playing 10 than pairing Eastmond and Weir together. One of the reasons I think our attack struggled last season is teams drifted off 10 and 12 - they knew Weir and Mills were not a threat running it so could drift off them and shut down outside backs space.

The same would happen with Eastmond IMO. Dont rate him as a player either. Would rather go after Noel Reid than Eastmond.

I hope Worcester dont sign any players on the market in all honesty. Imagine being told by the club you need to take a 25% pay cut and then magically, the club can afford to pay a player coming in 100-150k. Would ruin squad morale no end.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Offa (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 08:39

Agree with TrueWarrior.
I know he didn't play much for us, but Teo certainly held the opposition defences.

I suspect that we are quite a happy squad at present and that can count for a lot. Saints too appear to be a happy bunch, and Exeter seem to have earned the right to take top young talent from other teams (and we certainly know how much that hurts).

I don't understand Sarries. How will they pay all those who are due to return to them after next season?

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: kiddykid (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 10:13

I wish that Jamie Gibson ( ex SaInts) could play lock. A really good player I think - and he is available.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: usa warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 11:48

Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Of course - there is a price on Eastmond and it probably isnít worth it. But if two of Lawrence, Ventor and Beck get unlucky and go down with long term injuries we could be struggling. Just feel we havenít quite got the balance right yet. We have 3/4 centres yet 10 back rowers.

I'd suggest it's deeper than that, albeit some haven't had much game time and are not proven at the top level...

Beck
Ventor
Lawrence
Butler
Hearle
van Breda

I wouldn't advocate bringing in any of the Tigers bunch. Could, potentially, be an unnecessary distraction for us and stymies someone's progression. Not the message that we want to send if we are youth focused.

Point taken about we haven't got a like for like Mills replacement. He's a ball-playing 12, but has not been effective for some time. Whether that's systems or form, I don't know. Maybe a combination.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: 4934 (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 12:10

Agree USA.

And if there is money available and if there is an appetite to spend, (both doubtful) any newcomer would have to accord with the Solomons blueprint and fit in with the squad.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Offa (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 12:26

Millsy served us well, and I am grateful for his efforts.
He has some sublime skills.
However, for me, his weakness was in decision making. I still feel that he lost us as many games as he won us. He may flourish at Wasps and I wish him well. He is likely being groomed as a successor to Gopperth, but he has a long way to go to fill those boots.

As far as like for like goes, maybe Butler could in time be the man. And I have heard Solly say his decision making is good and he doesn't make mistakes.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 13:53

Quote:
usa warrior
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Of course - there is a price on Eastmond and it probably isnít worth it. But if two of Lawrence, Ventor and Beck get unlucky and go down with long term injuries we could be struggling. Just feel we havenít quite got the balance right yet. We have 3/4 centres yet 10 back rowers.

I'd suggest it's deeper than that, albeit some haven't had much game time and are not proven at the top level...

Beck
Ventor
Lawrence
Butler
Hearle
van Breda

I wouldn't advocate bringing in any of the Tigers bunch. Could, potentially, be an unnecessary distraction for us and stymies someone's progression. Not the message that we want to send if we are youth focused.

Point taken about we haven't got a like for like Mills replacement. He's a ball-playing 12, but has not been effective for some time. Whether that's systems or form, I don't know. Maybe a combination.

As i said tongue in cheek, Butler will be inevitably injured but even if he isnít I havenít see any evidence to suggest he is good enough. Heíll be 23 next season and has still barely played. Of course not all his fault but I canít see him staying with us beyond his current contract unless he rapidly finds some form, and fitness.

Also think Hearle will turn more into a winger as time progresses but who knows.

I donít think we will sign any more but it would be a pretty naive transfer policy going forward to not sign players from other clubs just because we donít want to stifle growth kf youngsters. Whereas a balance is of course needed, especially with our emphasis on developing young talent, you also need genuine strength in depth. In centre we simply donít at the moment despite it being an extremely physically demanding position. If we go into any game with Hearle or/and Butler (which is very possible) iíd expect us to struggle big time in the centres.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: usa warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 14:13

Equally, how many do you require? I'd suggest 6 centre's for two positions isn't too bad. Three of whom are pretty experienced, Lawrence is quality, and two development.

Hearle was a wing, but Solly see's him as a centre. He's a big unit.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Underdog (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 14:57

I've got high hopes for Butler. He was in the u20s team for a few years and not on the basis on physical size or power, suggesting he's got a good head for the game. I remember noticing him being a nuisance at the ruck in a few of those games too. Where he's played he has also shown up well in attack- Saints away last season springs to mind. Yeah, he's 23 but several of the academy players seem to have taken that long to get into the first team. Lots of them do degrees as well as play in the academy. We don't need him to get 40 caps for England (though it would be nice), we just need him to be a solid pro.

I agree with the sentiments of others expressed above regarding our tactical ability. Mills allowed us to play expansively which was very helpful when we had Heem and Adams on the wings. We now seem to have changed slightly, so that our centres are quick, tough players who look for weak shoulders or use footwork to go forward. This is good news for industrious wingers like Humphreys who roam across the park. It's also why Nanai has to play full back, as he seemed very similar to Adams to me - hanging around on the wing waiting to be put into space. Not a criticism.

Of course all of that could prove to be a load of rubbish if Sherratt decides to completely alter the shape of our attack.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: ROLLO (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 15:14

Cenre is an attritinal position so we will have to hope for good fortune on the injury front.
Worcester Sauce we should bear in mind that Pennell was injured a couple of times in his early career but look what happenend when we kept faith .

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 16:03

The number of centres is surely only as good as the quality they provide. If 2 of the 6 arenít up to it then bringing in people to replace them is no bad thing. I guess itís all futile as we wonít be bringing in Eastmond but I suppose the wider point is we shouldnít just rely on our academy because that is what we want to do. If we are weak in certain positions we should dip into the market... hopefully we donít suffer any significant injuries at centre until next summer otherwise i fear we could struggle and it could make a huge dent in someone like Hearleís confidence.

Agree with that Rollo Iím just yet to see much to suggest Butler will be all that. He also seems to have had even worse luck than CP, which is blO0dy unlucky and I think his size would be a problem if playing week in week out.

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: Fiver (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 16:36

I'd always been sceptical about Butler, but then he always proved me wrong when I watched him. I think he'll do just fine. Didn't he captain the England U20s, or just the Cavs?

Re: Tuilagi
Posted by: AJWarriors (IP Logged)
Date: 03 July, 2020 17:07

Think it was just the Cavs Fiver although he was one of the main men for the U20ís and stood out in the Junior World Cup. Itís just his injury record that hasnít seen him progress as quickly as he should have

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