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Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: thomh (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2018 15:32

Brown is getting shown up for pace in defence regularly though, even if there’s no one mistake to point to.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2018 15:38

Can't complain about the attacks....but both defences are lacking. Whoever can get the most ball will likely win as virtually every attack scores...
England need to get some control...

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Rocker (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2018 15:38

Daly is getting down up in defence too. Better to switch them

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Jammy Git (IP Logged)
Date: 09 June, 2018 18:34

Brown had a great start and didn't play badly but was exposed in terms of defensive positioning and pace, which hurt us a lot. Daly made too many big errors and gifted SA a try on top.

Too many players not really doing much - Slade, Robshaw, Billy, Itoje (yes, he scored, but he was poor everywhere else), Sinckler, George (unlucky with the penalties IMO), etc.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 10 June, 2018 14:38

Thought Brown was one of the few English players to come out with credit in that match, especially given he was playing out of position. The Saffa commentators were very complimentary.

Daly is a fantastic player but why is he at full back? Wing or 13. Inexperience showed and would have done so much better than Slade who hasn't been in-form.

Curry had a decent game but as above pretty much all the Sarries players were sub-par with the only decent one subbed after 30-odd minutes! Couldn't believe Robshaw remained on the pitch, should have been him getting the hook for Shields.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Nookes (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 10:31

Agree with comment above - Who made the most metres, who made the most tackles, who kicked the most - THAT WOULD BE - MIKE BROWN - 2ND IBM KEY INFLUENCER on IBM Try Tracker

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 11:13

Sadly I missed all but the last 10 minutes, thanks to a combination of British Airways and the Queen.

What I did see was a superb turnover by Mike that any forward would have been proud of.

Reading the paper yesterday the report was particularly scathing of Robshaw. Was he really so bad?

All in all, it sounds like it was a great game for the neutral spectators.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: thomh (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 11:20

Brown was beaten for pace on the outside in the build up to I think three South Africa tries.

That's the fault of the selectors for putting him on the wing rather than Brown himself, but can't be ignored in assessing how he played.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: T-Bone (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 11:25

Quote:
Quinky Kin
Sadly I missed all but the last 10 minutes, thanks to a combination of British Airways and the Queen.
What I did see was a superb turnover by Mike that any forward would have been proud of.

Reading the paper yesterday the report was particularly scathing of Robshaw. Was he really so bad?

All in all, it sounds like it was a great game for the neutral spectators.

A few people who are normally pro Robshaw have said he had a poor game and looked off the pace. I haven't watched so can't comment, but if true then I hope it is because he is knackered and will go good to go again after a proper rest, rather than because time is catching up with him.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 12:45

Robshaw (and a few others) literally looked dead on their feet to me. I know it has been said that he never went on the lions tour so why would he be so tiered. I would say it is because he is a bit older than a few of those players and has played literally non stop for a while. Bloke needs a break

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: never sleep (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 12:56

More likely reason for everyone looking tired is that they all trained in Durban and only flew up to Joburg on Thursday.
For info, the air in Joburg (roughly a mile above sea level) contains 17% less oxygen than Durbs.
This seems bizarre to me. Most teams train at altitude and then play at a lower altitude.
Training at sea-level and then having probably only one training session at altitude must be incredibly difficult. I really do hope that the team trains on the highveld this week.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Neale Harvey (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 14:56

No, they're back in Durban. Utterly bizarre prep for two games at altitude.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: John Tee (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 15:04

Iirc high altitude training takes a few weeks to see benefits.
If you are at 1500-2000m you'll feel affects for a day or two and then you'll be able to breathe easier. Operating at that level without effects is probably going to take 4 weeks, so there is a distinct advantage to it.
Maybe Jones thought a day or two would be useless...
Ime, you always need more air simply because there is less oxygen...so being more breathless is the result.
You definitely gasp at 3000 mtrs if not acclimatised but lower levels you will more quickly be short of breathe...ie, gasping if engaged in strenuous activity.
I recall Jim Ryan blaming the Mexico Olympics for his ill health later in life.... Or certainly being contributory...?

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: T-Bone (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 15:23

Jones has already said that the advice they received was that they'd need to have trained for 10 days at altitude for it to have had a worthwhile effect, which they weren't able to do, so they didn't bother essentially. I'm not sure if he said they needed to train for 10 days at altitude or just be there fore 10 days, but either way he said it wasn't something they were able to do and so the advice they got was that traini9ng there for a couple of days would have not real benefit to not training there at all.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Neale Harvey (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 16:06

They had a two week window after the Prem final to get the whole squad to somewhere near Joburg and have at least 10 days prep at altitude, but chose not to. Presumably Durban seen as a better location, which from a pleasure point of view it obviously is, but surely the former would have been the correct option from a performance perspective? It's not like there are no high-performance facilities there.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Rocker (IP Logged)
Date: 11 June, 2018 16:20

Well yes, you'd have thought that performance might have been given a higher priority to having a nice time in umhlanga (which is very nice). There's no shortage of places to train at a similair altitude to Joburg.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: T-Bone (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 09:05

Quote:
Neale Harvey
They had a two week window after the Prem final to get the whole squad to somewhere near Joburg and have at least 10 days prep at altitude, but chose not to. Presumably Durban seen as a better location, which from a pleasure point of view it obviously is, but surely the former would have been the correct option from a performance perspective? It's not like there are no high-performance facilities there.

Maybe they felt some of the players needed some time off after the end of the season before flying out? Or have they been out there the full 10 days anyway? Genuine question

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: never sleep (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 09:46

There is another aspect of altitude (besides fitness). Daly kicked a long range penalty - and also hoofed a ball downfield that went over the dead ball line. Some more training at altitude would likely have helped him avoid the latter.

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: QuinAlan (IP Logged)
Date: 12 June, 2018 09:56

There is a difference between the body adjusting to altitude & adjusting the body to performing at altitude. How do visiting Super Rugby teams plan their adjustments when coming from sea level to the high velde? What about visiting NFL teams to Denver which is roughly the same altitude as Ellis Park I think? Both of these leagues have a weekly turnaround so lengthy preparation at altitude is impossible. Think I read somewhere that they do a quick in & out to limit the effects of altitude. So England might not be doing it wrong. Its easier to sleep & rest at sea level for instance. Maybe they're trying something different?

Re: Mike Brown
Posted by: Nookes (IP Logged)
Date: 18 June, 2018 09:27

England player ratings: Mike Brown can hold his head high after defeat by South Africa in Bloemfontein. Are some feeling a bit stupid now with above comments in May onwards? - They should......

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