Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Marching On (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 08:14

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Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: ancient mariner (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 08:43

The interesting question is, what would Jim have done with the same injury situation? Would he have brought the youngsters in to the team or looked for experienced players to fill in from outside? If he had brought the youngsters on, would they have been as fired up as under Boyd? "What ifs" are impossible to answer, and whether Boyd would have done even better with the senior players, assuming there were far fewer injuries, is another one. Makes one think though.

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: expeeler (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 09:14

Injuries have developed our squad to a position where I am not concerned if we have to replace someone... there is little division between first and second string, unlike in previous seasons. The OPs point is interesting... indeed, the injuries might prove to have been a strange positive last season and a blessing in disguise for the long term, but only if some of those serious injuries heal and those players return to top form.

Plus of course, many squads have beefed up and signed some world class players... the competition will be that much more difficult.

Would we have made top four easier? Well who knows. But injuries permitting, next year will be fantastic. Certainly a couple of positions to recruit next year but our best squad for years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2019 09:18 by expeeler.

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Aberavon Wizard (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 09:15

Interesting thought. If we had played a back line of T, PF, LB, KP and Ace all season would we have seen much of Hutchinson and Collins let alone Furbank and Dingwall ? Likewise in the forwards would we have seen the emergence of Moon, Coles and Ludlam ?

If Jim had one failing it was his perceived loyalty allied to a reluctance to experiment. Whether that was all down to him or he was too reliant on West was/is open to speculation. Cbris Boyd has been faced with a long injury list and he has been to some extent forced to use our younger players and that situation has reaped huge dividends.

We nicked a top four spot by the smallest of margins - still very much work in progress.

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Chris Hoddle (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 09:21

I posted a team list of the then injured players a couple of months ago. I think that had they all been fit there would have been far more opportunity to rotate the players that I think would have proved positive.
With these players it looks good for next season.



http://chrishoddle.smugmug.com/photos/i-TsCHdzK/0/M/i-TsCHdzK-M.gif

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 09:43

I think we would have comfortably finished 4th and possibly even have been near Glos points wise. The real plus of the long injury list as mentioned above is the development of the younger players. with the odd exception we have strength in every position and shouldn't fear throwing anyone in as they have prove they are more than capable.

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Saint For Life (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 11:03

Re the 3 questions raised by St Ted - who knows and it would be purely a guess . Boyd has also introduced a different style of rugby and a change of culture - all the players appear to have responded well to this. Was never going to happen overnight although I suspect progress has been quicker than most would have anticipated .Look forward to next season and further progress.

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: fishface (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 12:47

This is an interesting question which could equally apply to the results of every other club.

It is easy to assume that we are the unlucky ones who suffer more than others and often in a specific position.

Trawling through our competitors sites usually reveals that it is common to have something like 12-16 players out of action at any time,such is the intensity of the game today.

Perhaps the most frustrating injuries are ongoing "last season" or preseason ones, not least for the lads themselves.

Prime example Harry Mallinder, how is he progressing ?

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: craig84 (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 13:09

Great post and subject, and at a guess im not sure we would have made the top 4?
My opinion is the players that came in-eg Ludlam when Wood was injured, Ludlam was a better fit to the speed and fluidity of play Boyd has got the team playing, you cannot doubt Woods commitment and is great at his game,but is a penalty machine which stops our momentum when he goes in off his feet,at the side of doesn't listen to the ref when he being told to let the ball go and gives away easy 3 points to the opposition- but is a real menace around the park and Ludlam does that too with the same penalty count. VW playing more minutes because Waller was the most pinged prop in the league, and V has done a fantastic job- i like Alex Waller but his decline has been awful, hopefully MF can help him sort his issues out because he great around the park throwing his bodt about for the cause. Painter has been exceptional for his first season,Fish jas been really consistent,Hutch showing his class and really giving us depth to hepp Proctor eased into English rugby,Dingwall superb,Collins jet heels used much better and so many more players i haven't mentioned but haven't got time to write at the moment.
Our squad was stuck in our ways from the same way of playing for years under Jim, the youngsters and squad players brought a freshness we needed.
For me without our younger squad being given the chance we wouldn't be top 4, maybe not even top 6.
Just my opinion

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Dragonboy (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 14:28

And of course we mustnít forget that weíve been without Harry Mallinder, James Haskell and Heinrich Broussow for most of the season and these would all have been in the mix for the 23

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 14:43

plus Symonds

I appreciate that he's a bit of an unknown quantity in GB&G, but he's a dedicated and large centre.

The main thing as CH said, without the injuries, we'd have had the chance of rotating the squad more.

The games where we were forced to play Woody or Heinz at 8 may not have played out like they did. Also, the situations where we were forced to play Furbank at 10, whilst he acquitted himself very well, would we have fared better with someone like Harry?


Fingers crossed that this has been a bit of an extreme season in terms of injuries and next season we can rotate more, keep players refreshed and turn the Gardens into the fortress that it once was.

If we can also get a win against Sarries for once, would also be nice.


However, the blessing has been the injuries resulted in the unearthing of a number of starlets. Try putting together a team sheet and see who you have to leave out...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2019 14:54 by Saint Stokey.

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 15:50

Pre Boyd there was two styles of play
First team seemed constricted, forced with very little Ď heads upí rugby
Wandies much more a heads up go from anywhere with guys being able to express themselves on the field
I know itís simplistic but as my wife tells me I am a very simple person- Iím assured itís a compliment
Little wonder when Boyd looked at the players a good few of the A team suddenly found themselves making a step up. Their style was more in line with his vision
They have grabbed the opportunity with both hands. - well done to them

I wonder how many of the ĎAí team such as Stephenson would have made a name for themselves under Boyd

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Dragonboy (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 16:53

Picking up on Saint Stokeyís post Ive been a Saints fan for 55 years now and I can never remember us ever having an injury situation like weíve had this year and it has likely been the making and retention of a clutch of our younger players.

With hopefully everyone being fit - World Cup permitting of course - Chris and the coaches are going to have some interesting challenges ahead of them plus of course Matt Proctor and Franks minor to merge in.

Hopefully this will mean that players will no longer be seemingly flogged into the ground as used to be the case.

Rotation is very much the key to success these days. M

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 22:12

Excellent topic and post Ted. Tough call but medium term it has definitely helped us as a squad and identity.

maybe another way of looking at it, regardless of injuries Boyd would always have got us top 4 (sorry FleetG, as if I could resist)

Re: Would Saints have reached the top 4 without injuries?
Posted by: 30yearsofsaints (IP Logged)
Date: 14 June, 2019 22:24

It's something I fear we're going to have to get used to in the modern game. The collisions are just so immense. I can look back at games early in his career when Matt Dawson played 13 for us at about 12 stone. He'd get killed now.

Chris Froome came off his bike yesterday at 40mph and hit a wall and look at the mess he's in. Rugby players are running into each other for 80 minutes each running at up to 20 mph for an impact speed of 40. I watched most of the saints games this year marvelling that there weren't more injuries.

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