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Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: GrandpaL (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 06:42

[www.dailymail.co.uk]

Suggests the announcement will have some impact.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: shendy (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 07:30

I was talking to someone about this yesterday, and we concluded that they'd hold off until after the RWC. I don't think it's so much about avoiding distracting England's preparation, more about World Rugby not wanting any bad publicity for the game to distract from their flagship event.

The chap I was talking to mentioned something I'd not heard before. This is obviously completely unsubstantiated, but worth mentioning.
It would be interesting to see when each of the property businesses were set up - what he'd heard is that Sarries have been "flipping" their marquee designation (much like MPs flipping their main/secondary residences, for expense claims), and the investment into the property firms came when someone was the marquee. Meaning, of course, that the player was outside of the salary cap at the time - the theory being that this means there's no breach of the cap.
Interesting - but purely a rumour.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Neil-H (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 07:40

I think its the right decision to wait until after world cup.... a lot of the players there are Saracens and IF (as we don't know the findings whatever anyone thinks) they are found guilty then ofc it may affect the player, its their club, their livelihood, affects their families etc.... you can be professional, but it will affect everyone differently?

Also, all the other players have been working hard for this, so could impact them to... the RFU have invested a lot of money to get England up to this level and its not their doing its the PRLs.

Right decision in my opinion... whats another few weeks going to matter, after whats been going on?

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 07:47

The fact that the decision is being delayed, whether that's to protect players or prevent any adverse publicity, it does sound like its going to be quite a significant decision!

At least something is going to be sorted out.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: tedge (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 08:02

Whatever the outcome I hope none of the players is blamed in any way.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Saint Ted (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 08:18

This couldn't be happening at a worse time.

Should England lose on Saturday, the press will be on the backs of the England team closely followed by this announcement, doesn't do the game in England any favours at all and more importantly could effect the knock on effect the world cup has on grass roots rugby.

Should England go on to win the world cup, this would have an even bigger impact on grass roots rugby, player numbers significantly rose in 2003, the RFU will be hoping for the same again

I wouldn't be shocked if PRL get the results back, if anything untoward has happened, give Saracens this season to get their house in order and then if they haven't, throw the book at them in a season where nothing major is going on.

Giving a massive fine or points deduction to the Premiership and European champions on the back of a world cup effects way more people than those at Saracens

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 08:19

Totally agree. None of the players should be blamed, but ultimately it will be them that feels the force of the outcome.

If it has been found that Sarries have broken the cap:

- and get a points deduction, next season the players will presumably be dumped out of the Champions Cup
- players will have to be released to bring the squad into line
- other squads will have been agreed and budgets set so there may not be alternative clubs to go to.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Walks11 (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 08:25

are the players completely blameless?.. most lays with the club for sure but the players are not aware of what's going on. At best the practice is questionable and would think the players are well aware of what's going on

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 08:44

Players would trust the club and owner that they’re involved in something legit. If they’re offered extra money and it’s supposedly legit, of course they’d take it.

Albeit I think it’s far worse for the game for a club to have been caught cheating twice and not been punished properly.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: SaintMaul (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 09:01

Players want to get paid well (it's a short career with career-ending injury a constant risk).
They also want to play for their country.

There is a reason the Sarries players never come on the market.

So whilst punishing Sarries feels fair it may have the unintended consequence of seeing more England players lured to France.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 09:09

and in that case we should stop the daft “you can’t play in France and for England”. The RFU and Prem Rugby should be focussed on expanding and bringing new money into our game to compete with France rather than punishing players for wanting to earn a crust in a nearby country.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Saint Stokey (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 09:12

Totally agree on the 'not playing in England'. At the very least, operate a minimum caps in the same way as Australia does.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: NottsSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 09:26

Lets be honest, they have either been outright cheating the cap, or at least dodging it outside of the "spirit" of the law for sometime, and nothing has been done about it. I don't really expect much to change for the better at the end of this.

In my mind, the whole cap policy needs to be revisited as cross-club-country issue to discuss.
The point of the cap is to stop the prem being as competition of the haves, and the also rans.

But despite this, nearly every club is losing money, the money in the game isn't enough for it to be self sustainable, and the only way anyone else can get close to competing with Sarries is to drive themselves into debt as well or get a money backer who is happy to loose money.

And despite all this, players still leave to earn more money in France, Japan etc.

Its clear that the cap isn't working currently, in any sense.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: fair_weather_fan (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 09:28

In the sense that there's damage to the game whenever the outcome is released, and whatever the outcome actually is, there is no good time to release the information.

The players are already aware that this problem exists, it isnt as though its anything new. And players are supposed to focus only on things that they can control.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Thrupp artist (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 10:08

I guess the players (at Saracens ) have no moral responsibility in the matter and are entitled to believe that their employer operates in accord with the rules and regulations designed to ensure fair competition. The interesting question is whether their attitude would change should it be revealed that they have been innocent parties to a deception that in no small part has enabled them to achieve a level of success greater than their peers.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 10:11

If the onus is not on the players, then they would have been victims of deception too. I am sure they are relaxed about receiving more money.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Longers (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 10:27

I cannot accept - nor do I understand - the attitude of people toward the players who have benefited.

The players have as much responsibility as the clubs, to ensure they are within the rules, and to be presented with a completely out of left field offer of partnerships certainly has a whiff of curious about it. They knew what was going on and they were complicit - or they chose to ignore the realities.

And that's before the tax-man becomes interested.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Wilson Pickett (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 10:38

These are lads who mostly haven’t been to university, have had to learn about investments etc on the fly, maybe have an IFA and an accountant. IMHO you should go after the executive team of the club, the board (which comprises various experienced business folk) and the owner who is usually a sophisticated wealthy investor.

Players probably know rules are being stretched but they haven’t the foggiest and are led by the club. If a players wife was being paid, if a player received a separate salary from a company linked to an owner or if a bag of cash found its way to a player then I agree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/10/2019 10:41 by Wilson Pickett.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Statesman (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 10:59

I think this is sensible as any announcement would be a distraction to the main event in Japan. I don’t therefore think that any conclusions can be drawn regarding the outcome as a result of the deferral.

I still think that the outcome will be fudged with no meaningful penalty for Saracens. My reason for thinking this is that the PRL have just sold a big chunk of the product to CVC for a big dollop of cash - I can’t believe they are now going to tell CVC that the product they bought is corrupt.

Re: Salary Cap Announcement Delayed until After World Cup
Posted by: Dragonboy (IP Logged)
Date: 22 October, 2019 11:08

Quote:
SaintMaul
Players want to get paid well (it's a short career with career-ending injury a constant risk).
They also want to play for their country.

There is a reason the Sarries players never come on the market.

So whilst punishing Sarries feels fair it may have the unintended consequence of seeing more England players lured to France.
Not quite true there because 2 switched to us this year and there was a rumour on here of another possible for next time around. Young players want to play and maybe money is tight for the younger players or just that they can see that something special is happening at Northampton Saints with the way you’re is getting their chance here.

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