
PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
McConnochie: return?
By P G Tips
November 12 2019
Bath will need to reprise the defiance of their win over Saints against Ulster at the Rec on Saturday. Resistance has been the defining characteristic of Ulster since 1690, epitomised by the apprentice boys watchword “No Surrender” at the siege of Derry and evident in the politics of the Province to this day. It would be fitting therefore for Bath to trump it with a performance for “Fortress Rec” to be proud of. So, in this season’s opening European tie, who will triumph?
The visitors lie second in their Pro 14 Pool, while Bath languish in the bottom third of the Premiership. Ulster made the Quarter Finals of the competition last year, narrowly losing in a tense encounter to eventual finalists and 4 times previous winners Leinster. Relative performance last season would suggest therefore that Ulster should have the edge. Of Ireland’s recent World Cup squad, unusually only 5 were from the Ravenhill outfit. Captain Rory Best now retired, was joined by fellow hooker Herring, lock Henderson, flanker Murphy and wing Stockdale. Their squad has other internationals though including the props McGrath and Moore, lock Treadwell and Springbok loose forward Coetzee. Their firepower is not confined to the pack, as scrum half Cooney, three quarters Marshall and Gilroy and fullback Addison are all notable attackers. Finally, of interest to Bathonians is Fly Half Billy Burns, brother of Freddie and thought by their former Headmaster at Beechen Cliff to be the more talented of the brothers.
Bath’s claim to “Fortress Rec” is not quite complete this season. Of 4 home fixtures, 3 have been won and fans will hope for an improvement on 75% success by season’s end. However, in Premiership matches the home record is 100% and it is the manner of those wins that brings hope. Exeter were beaten at their own game and Northampton dispatched with a dominant forward display in the second half, despite being a man down for 30 minutes. In both matches Bath had to come from behind to win, reversing a worrying pattern of losing the tight fixtures last season.
Against Ulster’s threat, Bath will need to step up a gear. The spirit and determination of the past two home games, though admirable, may not be enough against a pack of near international quality. Much will be required of the back row, with Bayliss, Ellis and Mercer potentially battered after their heroics against Saints. Hopefully, some reinforcement may be at hand if Francois Louw and Sam Underhill are ready to play a part.
Forward effort has indeed been sterling in the past few games, but what of the backs? Although it was the pack who sealed victory, there were promising signs in Chudley’s try and some of the patterns of running last Saturday. Resources may have to be carefully managed though, with Rokodoguni suffering an HIA and Brew facing a ban after his red card. Will Ruaridh McConnochie and Joe Cokanasiga, each only employed once in Japan, be unleashed to take the fight to the men in white?
If they are they will not be operating in a vacuum. For there to be fireworks from the outside backs the halfbacks need to make the opportunities and space. Supporters will hope for more of the zip Chudley showed in attack and a swifter decision making from both half -backs in defence.
Bath’s form has been inconsistent so far this season, in both competitions. Is it too early to hope that Saturday’s display marks a corner turned? Certainly with 6 World Cup returners, plus Faletau and Garvey due back there is room for optimism. For this Saturday a win is needed. Time to summon up the siege mentality, a spirit of “No Surrender” and produce a genuine “Fortress Rec.”
Hopefully they can release their backs to catch Ulster red handed.
Possible Bath Team:
Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels (C), McNally, Ellis, Underhill, Mercer.
Chudley, Priestland. McConnochie., Roberts, Wright, Cokanasiga. Burns
Replacements: Boyce, Walker, Judge, Stooke, Louw. Cook, Willison, Hamer-Webb.
pqs: qs:
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Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:20:08:32:47 by P G Tips.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:55:52 by P G Tips.
JJ, RM and JC are all needed and didn't get much match time so if they are rested and not too jet lagged etc. I would definitely like to see them there with Levi still singing and Aled presumably banned for a bit.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
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Quote:BathMatt53
Agree - Underhill and Louw should get some proper rest, its not like we are desperate for back rowers at the moment.
JJ, RM and JC are all needed and didn't get much match time so if they are rested and not too jet lagged etc. I would definitely like to see them there with Levi still singing and Aled presumably banned for a bit.
Just on Aled a bit, I hope he doesn't get put off by the card, I thought it a bit harsh but understandable, he does tend to fly up but I quite like his in your face aggression, it certainly flustered their back 3.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
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JJ is back in the mix at Farleigh, as is RMcc. Unsure about Underhill and JCok and I'd expect Flouw not to be out of the bar yet (and fair enough!).
This weekend, I'd put JJ, Ruaridh and Joe into the XV and, given the importance of the game, Sam in too, if he's back, fit and keen. Then Sam can have the week off when Flouw has sobered up.
It's a balancing act and different clubs are handling it in different ways, with Exe chucking their players back in last weekend and others (Sale, I see) giving them a few weeks off. Given it's at home, winnable and a very important European match, I'd like to see those present and fit picked.
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Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]
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Quote:Clarkey3k
Bookies struggling to split the sides for this match, Bath 10/11, Ulster even money. I think we will win. I sense a fortress Rec mentality emerging and would expect to see our underused RWC backs in the 23 for Saturday. The game is being shown live on C4...
… followed by Barbarians v Fiji on BBC1 !
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Quote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Agree with that. A lot of pain has been associated with that phrase over the years.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
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Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.
The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
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Quote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Very much this

... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
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Quote:Bathovalballer
Wonder if Mr Genge may be disillusioned with Leicester and may like to return to the West Country, especially his home town of Bristol. Can see him doing so in the fullness of time.
It was reported that they recently failed to get him back.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
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After they got rid of him last time I guess Svengali Lam thinks he can manage him....
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Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Very much this
Can we at least change the thread title please? I am no expert but I can see why this could be a problem. Thanks.
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Quote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Why?
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Quote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Why?
Maybe watch the brilliant Brian O'Driscoll documentary shoulder to shoulder if you want to learn a bit more about the troubles and why it shouldn't be trivialised. The use of language used by either side in a sporting context is for me unnecesarily antagonistic.
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Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Agree with that. A lot of pain has been associated with that phrase over the years.
Gentlemen, i think more pain has been caused by bombs and bullets rather than these two words. Each to their own views of course...
Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]
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[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Quote:Clarkey3kQuote:BathMatt53Quote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Agree with that. A lot of pain has been associated with that phrase over the years.
Gentlemen, i think more pain has been caused by bombs and bullets rather than these two words. Each to their own views of course...
History is history and cannot be rewritten. We can learn from history and such valiant and sacrificial acts. We all want a fortress Rec and the lads to ensure no weakness in our resolve.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:04:36 by P G Tips.
Why do England fans sing No Surrender? [www.bbc.co.uk]
Quote:CoochieCoo
I see no clear and obvious links to football hooliganism in PGT’s article. I think that is stretching the use of the words “no surrender” to find something offensive. The article is clear to me that we don’t want our lads to surrender at fortress rec which is the Hooper plan. Let’s face it we have done so in the past.
I don't think those words would have been used if we were playing any other team in world rugby. The truth is those words do have meaning, specifically to people from the place we are playing on Saturday.
Quote:ilovebathtimeQuote:CoochieCoo
I see no clear and obvious links to football hooliganism in PGT’s article. I think that is stretching the use of the words “no surrender” to find something offensive. The article is clear to me that we don’t want our lads to surrender at fortress rec which is the Hooper plan. Let’s face it we have done so in the past.
I don't think those words would have been used if we were playing any other team in world rugby. The truth is those words do have meaning, specifically to people from the place we are playing on Saturday.
This is exactly my point. I'm not trying to find something to be offended by, it just instantly struck me as being tone deaf at best.
Assistant Referees: Manuel Bottino, Mateto Liperini
TMO: Stefano Penne
Citing Commissioner: Beth Dickens
Quote:ilovebathtimeQuote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.
Why?
Maybe watch the brilliant Brian O'Driscoll documentary shoulder to shoulder if you want to learn a bit more about the troubles and why it shouldn't be trivialised. The use of language used by either side in a sporting context is for me unnecesarily antagonistic.
Have to say that was my immediate thought when I read the thread title
Thread titles have consistently had a humorous theme linked to the club we are playing and often I've found them witty and amusing but the connotations of this one quite simply cannot be funny in anyone's perception
I don't think anything offensive was ever intended but please change it
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No offence intended -apologies to those who took it.
To clarify:
No intentional reference to Football in any form -particularly not hooliganism.
I abhor far right & far left politics equally.
Let's get back to the rugby.
PG
Probable exceptions Flo and Sam.
No criticism if he doesn't play - the player and the Club will know the exact state of readiness of each of the players. Just opining that if he (and others) does play, that also seems perfectly reasonable.
They might just have a life away from rugby - and I think they will benefit from some time away from the oval ball.
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.
The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
Quote:sirtidychris
Given that Sam has been playing rugby solidly for 18months I would have thought they all need more than two weeks. Given how sam plays we should give him a 4-6 weeks
Again - i wouldn't presume to know what state his mind or body are in, and i'll assume that whatever the club goes with relates to that. But, he has played in 6 Test matches this year (spread across 24 Aug - 2 Nov, and (according to ESPN) has started 15 games for Bath in 3 seasons (including this one, so effectively, 2 seasons).
I'd have thought he'd be itching to capitalize on his fitness, especially for such a season-defining game.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
What's next to be outraged and offended by...?
Quote:ballsout
Phew, the world is a safer place now that a message board thread title has been changed. What's next to be outraged and offended by...?
Run out of kittens to punch this morning?
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Ruaridh McConnochie
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Will Chudley
1. Beno Obano
2. Tom Dunn
3. Will Stuart
4. Josh McNally
5. Charlie Ewels (c)
6. Mike Williams
7. Sam Underhill
8. Zach Mercer
Replacements
16. Jack Walker
17. Lewis Boyce
18. Christian Judge
19. Elliott Stooke
20. Josh Bayliss
21. Chris Cook
22. Max Wright
23. Gabe Hamer-Webb
(15-9) Will Addison, Rob Lyttle, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney.
(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Iain Henderson (Capt.), Sam Carter, Matthew Rea, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.
Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O'Sullivan, Tom O'Toole, Alan O'Connor, Sean Reidy, David Shanahan, Angus Curtis, Louis Ludik.
Good also to see Sam & JJ return.
PG
Let's start playing from minute 1 and not wake up half way through the game or when we get a red card.
Great team allez !
Quote:ballsout
What's next to be outraged and offended by...?
That depends on what part of the world you are from. Let's not offend if we can avoid it.
Some people get very upset over losing possession of a rugby ball....
Quote:Might just be good squad management - he's played a few games, and he plays hard - time for a rest to protect him so he can be as fresh as possible during the 6N.Optimist
If Ellis can't make the bench then we must have a seriously good back 5. I hope we don't end up with him feeling he'll get better opportunities elsewhere.
I worry for Mercer - Looks like Faletau will be fit for the 6N - so avoid having to play much for us. Where does Mercer's rest happen? Flouw at 8?
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Looks a good team I just pray to everyone's god that Sam doesn't come back and get injured in the first 10 minutes after all he has done on the World Stage......

Very excited

Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Surely Wales can't pick Faletau........he has not played for about a year!
Looks a good team I just pray to everyone's god that Sam doesn't come back and get injured in the first 10 minutes after all he has done on the World Stage......![]()
Very excited
Re Faletau, they can and I’m imagining they will. He’s quality.
J
Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Change a life with a loan [www.deki.org.uk]

Quote:Clarkey3k
Might our bench front row be a tad under-powered for this match or am I being over cautious? Mind you if the front row play like they did last week for the first 70mins it might not matter...
Boyce and Judge are under powered?! Judge is the strongest player in the gym by all accounts. He didn’t embarrass himself at Sarries either.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
JJ not himself, Roko looks well up for it, some great hits. Its there for the taking but can they take it?

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
AAAAAAAAAND we score!!!

Quote:shipwrecked
Burns out, hamstring?
Sooo wrong, miraculous recovery he's back to convert from the touch line Hamer Webbs try!

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Is that Burns' calf problem back again. Great kick though.
13 v 14
16 v 14

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Lucky second Ulster try when when had 2 players being treated for injury.
Really, really unlucky to lose that.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Quote:ken_jnr
Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isn’t wrong in anything she is saying mind you.
She was on the money - we played way to much rugby in the middle of the field and due to the lack of creativity we have we just go side to side and do nothing with the ball.
Should have won that with the territory and possession we had. The lack of go forward we have is really limiting us and nullifying the good work the forwards are doing
Quote:ken_jnr
Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isn’t wrong in anything she is saying mind you.
Agree, spot on in fact.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Quote:Dorset Boy
Replay shows clear no arms tackle on Mercer at the death there - should have been penalty to Bath.
Lucky second Ulster try when when had 2 players being treated for injury.
Really, really unlucky to lose that.
I thought the same...too much going on when the clocks gone red and it's the end of the game. I think the TMO might have said something otherwise.
Hamer-Webb's try was great, thought Roko and Beno were excellent. Shame Freddie gets cramp consistently after 50 minutes!
I think we'll win next week.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Quote:supermarinemattQuote:ken_jnr
Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isn’t wrong in anything she is saying mind you.
She was on the money - we played way to much rugby in the middle of the field and due to the lack of creativity we have we just go side to side and do nothing with the ball.
Should have won that with the territory and possession we had. The lack of go forward we have is really limiting us and nullifying the good work the forwards are doing
Agree, so what is Girvan Dempsey doing with the backs ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
At best, totally ineffective with a complete lack of creative skills.
It really doesn’t matter who occupies the remaining back line spots, they will simply be working on crumbs!
A card would have changed the next passage of play so who knows what the result might have been?
That said, I agree that despite the brightness of some of our play, too much was lateral, too many passes too deep and we made some sloppy errors.
A lot of good, sadly undone by too much bad.
PG
Personally, I'm sure I'm seeing a more determined, more motivated Bath who are trying to play more pleasing rugby. Clearly, it's going to be patchy but I for one think there are some good signs.
If we had a Mike Catt type 12 or if Freddie was a real midfield option we would be more difficult to defend against.
It’s usually Freddie’s awful kicking game that puts us under pressure, sometimes Joseph, today it was Chudley.
Should have won that but mentally not strong enough against the big teams and we were barely going to make any impression in this competition anyway.
Yet another Cup we bow out of early. Our brand of “rugby” doesn’t deserve to go through anyway, just terrible.
#1: Ballsout slags off Bath Rugby after a loss
#2: Bathovalballer slags off Bath Rugby and Ewels in particular after a loss
#3: neither are seen or heard of after a win
#4: the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
We just don't seem to ever get those decisions in our favour. Same last year when the Toulouse player should have been red carded as the citing proved.
Quote:Dorset Boy
BT have just shown 2 more angles of the hit on Mercer at the end. Zero attempt at a legal tackle, clear shoulder charge, probably a yellow in that position.
We just don't seem to ever get those decisions in our favour. Same last year when the Toulouse player should have been red carded as the citing proved.
There was a hit on Mercer in the first half when he was injured that looked no arms as well, add to that the leg lead into Burns and there was quite a lot missed.
Couldn't see from the TV but they also looked hugely offside at times in the backs.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Quote:BathHalfFull
I'm actually seeing signs of real encouragement. I feared the worst this season but if we continue to develop then I can see us getting forward dominance in a fair number of games this season and we actually started to put some backs moves together today so with our internationals back we could play some decent stuff. yes we failed to score at the death but we went from our 22 to their 5m line with some really good play and but for a great effort by stockdale we'd have pulled it off. Yes Zach could have maybe not thrown the pass and backed ourselves to recycle but i put it down to good defending. Onwards and upwards but I'm seeing progress for sure.
+1
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Quote:BathMatt53
List of most predictable things known to mankind:
#1: Ballsout slags off Bath Rugby after a loss(AND FREDDIE BURNS IN PARTICULAR)
#2: Bathovalballer slags off Bath Rugby and Ewels in particular after a loss
#3: neither are seen or heard of after a win
#4: the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
Please excuse the correction in highlights. Like others I see a team commitment to improvement and some good signs. It felt like two evenly matched sides out there and if we had had the early touch of luck and taken an early lead I think it would have been a different result.
Today there were too few - knee to Freddie, no arms on Zac.
We have a good squad yes we are lacking a quality reliable playmaker but what we have is hardly shabby 2 seasoned international 10's, we have a proven attack Coach and a star studded backline so please someone tell me why is our attack non existent??
There was some promise there but... Still a lack of incision in the backs.
Shame we couldn't finish it. Would have done our confidence a world of good.
Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau
Bit worried about Freddy and his cramp as well.
We have a decent pack and I was surprised on a heavy ground we didn't kick to the corners even though our line out wasn't working too well.
Overall though we looked loads better, 17 + phases at one point and Roko loves smashing people back. Loved the hit on Stockdale. Disappointed but way better.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Come on, that was a great move.
Am gutted we lost that. Two really bad bits of luck led to 14 points against us. Ulster's defence was excellent. But we've got a good young pack, the most solid set piece we've had in years and there are signs of opening up behind. Yes creativity at 10/12 is concerning (what is Max Wright's crash ball to knock on ratio?). But actually I'm kind of ok iff we continue to develop.
Quote:hasta
Come on, that was a great move.
Not sure anyone is saying it wasn't actually.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
On occasions, we attacked with menace and pace. Great shame our passing in the centre, apart from JJ's one to Hamer-Webb, was so poor, Rhuard M never got a pass all day.
The pack did well generally and Ewels is growing into captaincy. He has a very effective game too.
Underhill was devastating in some of his tackling and linked well on occasions. Roko looked back to his best and completed a couple of huge tackles of his own.
Allison at full back cleared up a lot of potential grief for Ulster who were lucky with their two breakaway tries from our errors.
It was enjoyable to watch, the officials were poor at times for both sides, but we showed great spirit and resolution in nearly nicking a game we could and probably should of won. From where I sat I couldn't see the end of the last play, so cannot comment on what went on. I feel if we play like that again, we will win more than we will lose and am hopeful for the future.
Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.
The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni
JJ can never find space in a Bath shirt. SH seems to have acknowledged much of this so they will need redouble their efforts.
Quote:Dorset Boy
Coochie, the angles shown by BT clearly show no arms, no attempt to wrap, just an illegal shoulder charge which is a cast iron penalty, and possible yellow card, plus it was in the act of passing for a likely try. If after the offload then it was late too.
CC has put up the video showing the no arms tackle on Mercer, in fact if you roll back to the previous pass about 30 yds from the line there is another dubious tackle, certainly little wrap if at all in that move.
BnG is right, no enough TMO in this game.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Quote:joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.
Why?
With several centres out of contract we need to be looking at someone like Seta Tamanivalu IMO unless we are going to turn JC into a 12 which would be awesome to see...!
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:17:07:51:03 by BathMatt53.
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.
Why?
We're one point down, times up, we have possession in the opposite half and we send a single runner up in the 12 channel from off the top line out ball. Who gets isolated and holds on. Penalty. Cue fat lady.
Drive the line out ball, commit the fringe defence, keep possession at all costs, As long as you don't make a mistake, you have an infinite amount to time to score and any score will do. Milk a penalty. Set up a drop goal. Anything, really, BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:17:08:25:42 by joethefanatic.
For whatever reason and we will never be publicly told by Tarquin the club failed to attract a 10 and had to grovel to RP and pay him an enormous new deal which his performances had not deserved and in addition our DoR spookily changed his mind in relation to remaining at the club - I am sure the two are not linked

On a positive note it looks like the vocal Sarries who stormed WE WILL APPEAL THIS IS DISGUSTING may not be actually appealing at all for fear of relegation so there may be players becoming available at the end of the season, providing ourselves and the other Premiership clu step up and do not capitulate against them, really feel for the true Sarries supporters if true because you have been cheated and your clubs name tarnished beyond reproach.
Sad because I genuinely believe Nigel Wray is a good man and when I met him he was passionate about rugby and player welfare especially post career but his position is untenable and he will for the good of the game needs to sadly fa on his sword.
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.
Why?
We're one point down, times up, we have possession in the opposite half and we send a single runner up in the 12 channel from off the top line out ball. Who gets isolated and holds on. Penalty. Cue fat lady.
Drive the line out ball, commit the fringe defence, keep possession at all costs, As long as you don't make a mistake, you have an infinite amount to time to score and any score will do. Milk a penalty. Set up a drop goal. Anything, really, BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD.
Well said.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Quote:ballsoutQuote:joethefanaticQuote:Bath HammerQuote:joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.
Why?
We're one point down, times up, we have possession in the opposite half and we send a single runner up in the 12 channel from off the top line out ball. Who gets isolated and holds on. Penalty. Cue fat lady.
Drive the line out ball, commit the fringe defence, keep possession at all costs, As long as you don't make a mistake, you have an infinite amount to time to score and any score will do. Milk a penalty. Set up a drop goal. Anything, really, BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD.
Well said.
Two things.
1) "As long as you don't make a mistake" Absolutely key but what about the ref making a mistake?
2)"BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD" We did our ball retention was good. That improvement needs to be noted.
The failure to win wasn't just in the last play, it was elsewhere but there has to be some recognition of the fact that we are significantly better as a side. Ewell's decisions are never going to be 100%.
It is close to the time when it has to be admitted that Hooper is doing OK.
The criticisms of fight, dog, ball retention, tackling have receded the new ones of "running the ball" are now appearing. We need game management but we are now a decent side.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Quote:No I wasn’t, I was pointing out if we cut out the static shovelling along the line and put our damaged men in space at pace we can score tries like that.hasta
Dcsh was, actually. (Tbh our posts crossed, I think it looks like mine is a response to you)
Quote:shipwrecked
The failure to win wasn't just in the last play, it was elsewhere but there has to be some recognition of the fact that we are significantly better as a side. Disagree, only the lineout is significantly improved
Ewell's decisions are never going to be 100%. Absolutely true, he seems to be doing a good job.
It is close to the time when it has to be admitted that Hooper is doing OK. Absolutely not
The criticisms of fight, dog, ball retention, tackling have receded the new ones of "running the ball" are now appearing. We need game management but we are now a decent side Disagree again.
Yesterday's game was pretty poor from both sides and could have gone either way, Bath just didn't get the rub of the green. Not sure why Bath bother with wingers though as we rarely use them effectively.
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:shipwrecked
The failure to win wasn't just in the last play, it was elsewhere but there has to be some recognition of the fact that we are significantly better as a side. Disagree, only the lineout is significantly improved
Ewell's decisions are never going to be 100%. Absolutely true, he seems to be doing a good job.
It is close to the time when it has to be admitted that Hooper is doing OK. Absolutely not
The criticisms of fight, dog, ball retention, tackling have receded the new ones of "running the ball" are now appearing. We need game management but we are now a decent side Disagree again.
Yesterday's game was pretty poor from both sides and could have gone either way, Bath just didn't get the rub of the green. Not sure why Bath bother with wingers though as we rarely use them effectively.
Wishful thinking that there might be at least some recognition so what does Hooper have to do to achieve some sort of recognition for you.
P.S. We have a solid scrum, excellent back row that competes at the breakdown and a lineout that was working, up to yesterday. How is that not an improvement.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Quote:shipwrecked
Wishful thinking that there might be at least some recognition so what does Hooper have to do to achieve some sort of recognition for you.
Win all our home games, finish in top 4 and qualify for HC quarter finals would have me saying Hooper has done a good job.
He's not alone in concerning me though. Our 9, 10, 12 certainly aren't the best but I would expect a half decent attack coach to do something with 2 ex internationals and a former PL winning 9.
I like what Charteris is doing with the lineout and our defence in midfield yesterday seemed better as well.
I just don't agree we are a significantly better side as you maintain.
He said he was going to sort out the forwards, they are miles better before Hatley gets to work.
Everyone, I mean everyone agrees we need 9,10,12 but that is down to availability unless you have a suggestion?
You can't say we are not better than last year, we couldn't retain the ball, deal with restarts, tackle, scrum, win lineouts, throw in catch the ball......
Plus we have young talent coming through, it all part of the club.
You are right though we do need half backs.....have we signed Rhys Webb yet?

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Quote:miller8
This team can only get better especially when World Cup and injury returnees get back into the rhythm...
Other teams will get better too
The lack of incision from the centres against Ulster was down to a couple of things IMO
1) playing Roberts, yes he hits it up but rarely breaks the line. He rarely offloads in the tackle either so no continuity to build pressure drag in defenders so creating space outside.
2) slow ball from rucks, partly SH , partly Ulster doing a job at slowing it down.
3) Pitch heavy, with all the "weather" over the last couple of weeks , means players like JJ just cant step / use their footwork .
Until we have options/plays that allows us to get some penetration up the middle we won't be able to exploit the space outside this creates.
Apart from the no arms tackle at the end, I'm still smarting over the lack of forward pass given for their second try and the fact RM was down injured at the time after being (you could argue, taken out in the air as the Ulster player didn't exactly make much of an effort to go for the ball) the ref still allowed play to continue around him whilst being treated, when he should have blown up before that as play was becoming unsafe! with a player down.
"You're going to need a bigger boat"
Miles Reid Adopted Player 2019/20
Quote:Shadders
BT sport clip
They got lucky with that one for sure, not that it matters now.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Quote:Griff
I'm still smarting over ... the fact RM was down injured at the time
…. that was going through my mind when they scored, and I was trying to think how you work out a compromise so that teams aren't immediately handicapped by losing a player to injury, without going down the football route where players tactically stop the game by feigning injury.
Also - [twitter.com] Stockdale must have a fair few kgs and cms on Roko!
Quote:I think Lol was busy think about what to have for tea or something as he kept saying that the “try” stood regardless, but they should have come back for the penalty.Shadders
BT sport clip here with BOD and Lol analysing the final play.
Quote:Griff
I'm still smarting over the lack of forward pass given for their second try
Pass went backwards, it was the bounce that went forwards so the try is ok
Zac would have run through that tackle 9 times out of 10 if he had held the ball.
The touch line acts as an extra defender in that situation. Had Roko cut inside earlier he would have given himself more space. As it was, even if the interception was not made he would probably have been bundled into touch.
I'd have loved to have seen him dummy and go for it. Cooney might've stopped him a metre or two out. But we're going forward with momentum, we've potential penalty advantage from the Cooney 'hit', potential penalties as Ulster retreat, the chance to pick and go towards the posts... ah what might have been.
But if Zach hadn't passed and we hadn't scored, I'd have been wishing he'd given it to Roko!
Quote:Optimist
+ the skill of whoever it was who tipped it on to him
Chris Cook
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Ulster took their chances because we gave them more ( with a little help from poor match officials) and they had the players to accept. Our best 3/4 line break was made by our number 8. Our pack has been the most positive development this year but our lineout wobbled against Ulster and the bad old penalty count has started mounting again.
Early days yet so let's hope that Bath can begin to finally get it all together - but the blunt 3/4 line is a concern.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:19:10:31:14 by Deckchair.
Quote:Optimist
On the highlights - stop the clock at 6' 42. Priestland is pulling the ball back literally 10-12 metres, and directly behind him. My impression is that was the norm with RP's passes out the back. Surely the set up has got to be tighter than that to really challenge the defence?
Isn't that a function of compensating for their offside defence, they run two lines one in front of the other, the regular backs are dummy runners and Cook and Zac are the second line. Its what gets us wide in the first place.
I agree that RP plays too deep though, if he doesn't threaten the midfield by his running or short chip kicks through his backs are always going to be predictable. He has no variation.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:19:11:53:52 by Optimist.
[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]
Basically though I agree about Priestland but that play isn't the best example. He was forced to play like that having been charged down last week and nearly intercepted early this week. Remember Chudley was also charged down.
The rush defence can be pushed back if you kick behind them, we didn't so thats a green light to charge up, RP compensated.
Is this coaching or is it the half backs? I preferred it when we did the scrum, lineout, rolling maul thing, to be honest, that way their backs are walking backwards.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
This would have two effects........keep their back line honest rather than just rushing straight up because they "knew" we were always going to pass it as described so clearly above, and might also cause their full back to be less deep to try and cover this option which in turn would open up the option of a very deep kick going over his head giving us the opportunity to really make some ground.
Freddie is generally the only one who seems to do this but for some weird reason, for a very talented footballer, he always kicks too far.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
On Saturday on numerous occasions there was a large areas of green stuff behind the Ulster very, very fast up defence line (offside?)..........all it needed was a little chip kick (do I say this after every match) to get behind them a few times.
This would have two effects........keep their back line honest rather than just rushing straight up because they "knew" we were always going to pass it as described so clearly above, and might also cause their full back to be less deep to try and cover this option which in turn would open up the option of a very deep kick going over his head giving us the
opportunity to really make some ground.
Freddie is generally the only one who seems to do this but for some weird reason, for a very talented footballer, he always kicks too far.
Totally agree
I'm not really sure that 'move' counts. It was entirely dependent, for its success, in Cook going for the flick (which indicates that he was actually getting man and ball, not that the pull-back had given him some space), and Zach catching that flick-on. That is simply not a repeatable process - it would only come off about 1 in 10 times.
I don't think the chip kick is so much in RP's repertoire because he's not quick enough off the mark to regather it himself, nor is Jamie Roberts. JJ would be, but 10 chipping to 13 is fairly rare. A bit more interchangeability between JJ and JR might help.
Quote:Optimist
I don't think the chip kick is so much in RP's repertoire because he's not quick enough off the mark to regather it himself, nor is Jamie Roberts. JJ would be, but 10 chipping to 13 is fairly rare. A bit more interchangeability between JJ and JR might help.
Strongly agree, has JJ ever played 12?

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
Of course the person who kicks does not have to be the person who catches so imagine putting Rory M and JJ at 12 and 13 surely one of them could catch a well placed kick.......take on the full back and pass to the other.........see easy peasy!!
Look, clearly Priestland/Roberts are not the forces they were, but those are internationals. Many, many teams have won the prem without internationals at 10/12.
We're building a pack that can absolutely mix it with any other British and Irish pack. We have gas outside. We don't *need* all stars at 9/10/12. We need good patterns, good decision making, trust, skills, direction and discipline.
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
Thing is Opti, and this is a rare admission from me (!), I was not the fastest off the mark, but if you chip high very late then you can run through whilst they are firstly recognising that you have not passed, they then have to stop.........whilst you are accelerating (OK in my case running marginally quicker) they are then turning and then trying to catch you up from a standing start.
Of course the person who kicks does not have to be the person who catches so imagine putting Rory M and JJ at 12 and 13 surely one of them could catch a well placed kick.......take on the full back and pass to the other.........see easy peasy!!
I agree BSJ, but a little chip over the top when you are running is really hard, needs practice and a lot of it and it is easy to charge down, thats why the grubber is easier but the point is as you say it just has to go behind them.

Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!
A: we nearly scored on the final play on Saturday
B: we thought the diamond attacking shape was God's gift until Sarries completely shut it down in the final
Having said that, I entirely agree that whatever you are going to do needs to be done at, just before or just after contact, whether it's jack ball, face ball or offload. No time for the defenders to react so they have to predict which makes the attackers' job easier.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:19:20:49:06 by Trawling.
As posted above - the fact that we nearly scored on the final play is irrelevant when you look at the sequence of events. A tip-on simply isn't part of a pre-planned move - it's a 'spontaneous, sh*it or bust desperation play - the sort of thing you do if you've got penalty advantage. If Cook had just caught the ball he would have been wiped out, Ulster would have swarmed all over him and it would have been turnover ball. I'll accept though the challenge that Cook is not a winger/full-back and so cutting that line would be fairly unfamiliar to him.
Quote:Optimist
On the highlights - stop the clock at 6' 42. Priestland is pulling the ball back literally 10-12 metres, and directly behind him. My impression is that was the norm with RP's passes out the back. Surely the set up has got to be tighter than that to really challenge the defence?
At the risk of being video replay nerd check the play at 49:45
RP is close to the defensive line but has to hold up the pass because Ulster player has stepped up for interception. RP looks momentarily phased but then passes flat to Ewells who is through and mskes another 10 metres into their 22. If his pass goes to underhill its a try
A more instinctive 10 like ford would pose that threat more often
On another note go to 51:45 when their 2 puts knee deliberately to Freddie's head when one on one on our 22. Surely something that should have been looked at more closely?

Quote:gaz59
Watched the last play again and now the no-arm tackle looks so obvious but guess at that point in the game the TMO was cracking open his complimentary bottle of bushmills
I think he was tucking into his Paella Italiano at half time and fell asleep !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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