Sunday,bloody Sunday!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:03:07:18:35:48 by Wildwillie .

London Scottish got us out of jail last week, by rights we should be all but dead and buried as far as the play offs go and we wouldn't have any complaints.

But we have a lifeline. After pirates we play London Scottish, Moseley and Rotherham, all games we should be able to win.

Even our last two games against Bedford and Notts could be easier than expected as both will have confirmed their participation in the play offs by then.

If we don't get there, it's because we arent good enough



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:02:26:20:42:06 by leemingtyke.

Thanks WW...I see you have stress management sorted for the remainder of the season!Yep...if we don't make the play offs its simply because we just aint good enough!!...and all the games from here on in are tough enough? We could of course show just what a crazy one off Doncaster was by finding some real form. Sunday is a 'turning point'...we shall soon see how much we want the play offs?? Mid term report:'could do better...concentration a problem!'

O Happy Day! Another lovely trip to our wonderful "home" ground that is Otley.

As for stress management, there is pleny of opportunities to drown sorrows, or indeed to rejoice in victory, in that lovely little market town.

Roll on Sunday and roll out of Otley later.

I like Otley!!

Anyway, I shall be armed with my trusty pen and notebook, so stand by for my inane drivel being posted at some point next week!!!

Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It

'proficiscor in una'

Otley is a dump !! FACT

It might be ok to use as a last resort while HC is 'bedding in' but let's not loose sight of the fact that it's a very tired and run down ground

Returning this weekend from Twickers and an iconic match last Saturday, I understand the headline! Do I have to go? I associate Otley with freezing cold or wet and losing (gallant though our performance against Falcons perhaps was).
To answer my own question, however brilliant England's hard-fought victory was last week, the pleasure of watching (on only too rare occasions) our Tykes get victory can be even greater.
Nice preview and see you Sunday.



I wasn't born in Yorkshire but I got here as soon as I could

Oh dear Almo - you don't remember that balmy Spring afternoon when we secured promotion? Mind you we were playing away that time and Dan Hyde let us know it!

Quote:

inside pass
Otley is a dump !! FACT
It might be ok to use as a last resort while HC is 'bedding in' but let's not loose sight of the fact that it's a very tired and run down ground

I think that you may have wanted to say that Otley is a club with lots of character something the vast expanse of Headingley lacks in abundance

I prefer Bobba's version....................

Up the Carnegie TYKES !

Quote:

ellishicks
Oh dear Almo - you don't remember that balmy Spring afternoon when we secured promotion? Mind you we were playing away that time and Dan Hyde let us know it!

Sorry before my time!

Pirates supporter here.
We're looking forward to visiting Otley - always one of our favourite grounds when they were in the same league.
Pirates are not exactly inspiring confidence lately. The "weakened" side at Noocastle was mostly because of injuries (although a couple of guys were rested). So a lot depends on who is fit for the game on Sunday.
The L Scots game was pretty disappointing - we conceded a 17 - 0 lead and were poor in the second half. That was surprising as we have been strong finishers in most of our games. It was also the first home defeat since Newcastle turned us over early in the season.
Our away form is pretty sketchy.
How's Mike Myerscough doing? We loved him down here - local boy and a fine prospect. We are also all too aware of what The Doc can do - he is a class act.
So .. what can we expect on Sunday?
Your guess is as good as mine.
It's bleddy cold down here in sub tropical Cornwall - so I dread to think what it's like in the frozen North!

Stalwart, as you can see from the posts above we have mixed feelings about Otley. We certainly haven't won there in our two matches this season.

Seems like you know the ground better than us.

We have been so inconsistant this season and we don't know if we are at home or away or if the team is going to turn up.

Confused? You will be....



I wasn't born in Yorkshire but I got here as soon as I could

Pitch is fine, surrounds a bit careworn (but still better terrace viewing than most places), town superb. Not FACT, just my opinion.

I agree with Newtfish, FACT!

And the ground is only a 10 minutes taxi ride from Otley/Menston International Airport!

3-12 after 15. Don't know what Jimmy Lowes is coaching but it can't be tackling.

12-15 HT. Clegg's right boot keeping us in touch. Tussac in the bin.

Woke up in the end, won 37-25. Just the three tries.

Wow! What a rollercoaster ride it is with our lot. So many mistakes early on. Then gradually getting back into it. Pirates looked knackered by halftime. 3 good tries then the customary lapse as a Pirate strolled through at the end. I think we played better once we relaxed. The subs all made an impact, especially Currie and Imiolek.

I think Plug made an impact on their 2, though it was all smiles after the match.

I think Stevie needs some stick-mitts

Stevie had a brilliant game, but it would have been even better if he had not knocked-on twice in front of the line!

Scott Freer made a great impact. Felt sorry for wee Stevie - his personal hardwork coming to nought but good assist for Doc's try.

Quote:

Gelbel
Scott Freer made a great impact.

Agree with that. More impact and less mistakes.

What happened to the ref? It was the honourable thing to do if he decided to resign mid-match. Having said that I had been blaming the t-j who took over but at last he seemed to understand that Ben Harris will mash any tight head in a fair scrum.

Two little cameos within todays whole offering at Cross Green gave me encouragement for the remainder of the season, whatever length that be, and they were as follows: 1) Ryan Burrows obvious disappointment at being pulled off to make way for Chris Walkers introduction to the game and 2) Damien Tussac kissing his shirt badge as he left the field at the end of his spell on the pitch. (He was perhaps lucky the opposition front row were disciplined enough to not overreact to his waving them back when the Pirates scrum was mullered!)

These two instances indicate to me that if we can get the implementation right that the desire is certainly there.

Although I agree with the above I still worry that we were lucky to go in 9-15 at half time, they had missed two kicks, and I'm not sure we deserved the margin. That said what a second half display? where did that come from? and why can't we perform more often?

well it took them 20 mins or so to get going but leeds played well in the end. i wish they would come out fired up and not have to wait for something to happen to get them going

i think the leeds bench made the difference, leeds kicked on when theres came on, pirates went backwards

i thought baldwin had another good game and freer does hit the line well at some great angles

leeds need to be confident and start bullying some teams right from the start

Decent enough performance today especially in the second half. Still not dealing with restarts, twice we were penalised for 'crossing' and conceded a penalty, Pirates scoring their third try from the last one.
The scrum were dominant, especially in that second half, how we need a big centre to knock a hole in the opposition defence when we have the ball. If we had another full back, I'd even suggest giving Kirsty a run at centre, he'd cause some damage there, (assuming he didn't drop the ball).

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

"we need a big centre to knock a hole in the opposition" you mean someone like Josh Griffin??
What's Lucock doing and perhaps Matt Clark might make a better centre, he doesn't seem to have much of a killer instinct and he fretted when he dropped that ball.
Oli and Fred look a bit lightweight and maybe Griffin's a one trick shirehorse but if we had a flier like say Curtis Wilson with McColl and Doc in the back 3 - well it might have worked in the long run.

Great game after a nervous start...great maul for third try.Agree with Hax about centre...need some raw power off the bench and/or mix it up a bit with grubbers? Shame we couldn't get a bonus point...we will need a few to stand a chance?? Hope to see another really powerful performance next week.....with us starting on time? If only we could be consistent??? We need to win em all now really...no ifs no buts no next times.

i agree about the centre, we miss griffins go forward and off load

goss is tricky but wont punch hole through the midfield

They must have locked Diccon out of the changing room at halftime. Certainly motivated for the second half.

We seem to give a better second half performance when we go in behind at half time - must be a different DE speech for those games.

The centres were a bugbear for me, although they performed well we have always played better with some bulk hitting the channel. For example Snyman and Seru.

Agree with much of what has been said here. I was feeling pretty low when we were 12-3 down but the lads stuck at it well. The physicality of the forwards and dominant scrummaging were key. This was a comtinuation of the performance against Newcastle. It was clear by half time that although we were behind on points they were knackered and didnt really fancy this one.

As said before we lack either power or finesse at 12 and 13... Never really troubling defences. But good games from Hampson, Stevie and Dave D.

Good to see Freer making an impact too.

Not sure at all what to make of the Clegg vs Ford debate. Clegg clearly gives us more go-forward. But if Clegg is off to Newcastle surely we have to play Ford every week.

You would think that with the selection poicey it would be Rory staying and Joe leaving at the end of the season!!!

Quote:

scanman
You would think that with the selection poicey it would be Rory staying and Joe leaving at the end of the season!!!

I wish!

The Budgies are saying Clegg to them is a done deal.

So what is our objective? Short term use Clegg to get us to the playoffs (quite a big if at this stage) and then play Joe?

Quote:

Carnegiette1

Quote:

scanman
You would think that with the selection poicey it would be Rory staying and Joe leaving at the end of the season!!!

I wish!

The Budgies are saying Clegg to them is a done deal.

So what is our objective? Short term use Clegg to get us to the playoffs (quite a big if at this stage) and then play Joe?

I cant see Joe coping well with that, asked to come in at the end to play for the most important games with minimal game time.

In addition, Joe has been treated pretty shoddily by the coaching team and, if I was him, I would struggle to put in my best shift with that going on.

I enjoyed that.

Interesting ales, Tether Blonde / Tether Best.

Seabrook crisps (a treat for an exile).

I also enjoyed a dominant Leeds scrum that I haven't seen for a long time.

I also noted what more regular spectators have often observed that there were a heck of a lot of unforced errors. Shame you don't win points for knock-ons.

Impressed with the "don't panic" mentality after their gifted second try and play back onto the scoreboard.

I also found it curious that Clegg kicked to Fatialofa once, who broke the line that led to their first try. Then when back in possession he kicked to Fatialofa again who got way ahead of the gainline. Was this some "weakness" DE had identified in the Cornish backline?

Top effort by the Pirates fans getting up here on a Sunday.

K.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:03:04:21:22:28 by Knavesmire.

It's pretty hypothetical as we have a lot to do to make the play-offs.

Have nothing against Joe, but this is a professional sport(yes hard to believe at times I know). Leeds Carnegie do not exist to keep the players happy. We exist to win.If that winning coincides with a happy squad then all well and good.

But in any squad there will be players who are satisfied because they are playing, and those who aren't playing who are likely to be frustrated. Hopefully that leads to competition in the squad, and improved results. But it won't work for all players and some will leave.

I don't begrudge any player who leaves us to better himself or to get a regular game. Their career is short they have to do what is best for them. Joe left us to better himself and it didn't work out for him.

Do I judge DE on whether he has kept the players happy? No. Do I judge him on the results? Absolutely.

What I would really like to know though is what our strategy is.... short or long term. It's not clear to me, and probably not to anyone

As a comparatively recent convert from Wendyball (Seen the Light?) I have been appalled at the lack of respect for contracts in RU. Seems like every "three year" contract is so peppered in holes with get-out clauses for both sides that it is meaningless. Case in point J Gopperth's recent "three year" deal with Budgies.
So therefore why are we so precious about "our" contracted players? Players on loan for a full season are probably about as likely to stay as those who have put ink to worthless paper.
Now if we are talking about players who have grown up in our Academy then that is a different matter. For me, loan or contract - not much different.


Starting to swerve.....

I wasn't born in Yorkshire but I got here as soon as I could

Joe Ford made a professional decision a couple of years ago to leave when Saints came knocking so he will accept the professional decision to leave him out now. In my opinion he hasn't been the same player since he came back.

However it does beg a question about why the management, if they didn't feel JF was a strong enough option at 10 (which they don't seem to at the moment), haven't done something about it before now, ie last summer.

Broadly agree Tremallt

2 points-maybe the management team thought joe would progress more than he has done. But given that we tried to sign tommy bell maybe it was always the plan that joe would be the understudy?

In which case there should have been a plan B

Good point re Tommy Bell, I had forgotten about him.

So was it a failure of management not to strengthen last summer rather than a failure of management to bring in Clegg as an interim now?

(I apologise for this rant up front but I think the players need some support from us. Last Sunday they were the guys who showed some appreciation to the fans for being there the management seemed to show little interest in the Leeds faithful as usual.)

Who knows what’s in DE’s mind, does DE know?

I thought Joe played reasonably well for the first part of the season when he was our only recognised 10. I seem to remember that most of the talk on here was that we needed to bring in someone to support him as, if he was injured, we were in the brown stuff.

But

As happened often last year DE seems to be seduced by players from a higher division club. We don’t know if part of the Clegg deal was that he “had” to be played as first choice when possible or not but what happened to all that B.S. that was trotted out when all the experience players were let go.

We were apparently building a young team for the future.

What seems to happen is, we bring in loanees, so our young talent goes elsewhere through choice or being pushed and the Loanees go back to their clubs or sign for a more prestigious one as in Bell.

What this does not achieve is a strengthening of the core Leeds team.

To me, it smacks of desperation, DE sees getting us to the playoffs or close, as a way of saving his job. The fact that crucial members of the team that get us there or close, will not be able to play is irrelevant he will point out that we got there or nearly did?

If Leeds are going to grow a young team for the future, then let them do just that.
You cannot build a strong, never say die, play for each other team ethic that we saw at Headingley in past years when the Manager keeps parachuting in quick fixes at the expense of our own talent.

You don’t build confidence in your team by benching them for a journeyman player who is only there to get game time.

Last week on Rugby Club they asked Rob Baxter (A man who built a team with no superstars which has succeeded in the premiership) the secret of a good coach he said “It’s all about the Players” someone should tell that to DE

Well said RD.

Fancy a coaching job, RD?

Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It

'proficiscor in una'

Exactly right,

Well said RD, superb post

You read any coaching manual and it's always about those you coach.

I do a lot of stuff getting senior leaders to engage their people (engagement is all about employees' experience and engaged people perform better and more productive etc etc etc*) and I talk all the time about the need to put yourself in your people's shoes and to put them at the forefront of everything. And those that do it right (and from the heart not as a manual tick box exercise) have the highest performing, stable, would do anything for their leader teams.



*Mmm perhaps I ought to look at what DE is doing in his 'going in, in the lead' half-time speeches as they are obviously going in one ear and out the other without sticking - a sure sign of disengagement.

Some interesting points- I will always support whoever turns out in a Leeds shirt whether it be for 1 match in a season or every game. Hence why I drive all over the county and sometimes country to watch them.

Homegrown players should be the nucleus of our squad, but why discount what loan players can bring IF used in the right way (which Leeds have not always done)

How many times did tommy bell's boot save us last year? Without him we could easily have been playing in the wrong playoffs. And if he had signed would anyone have cared that he started out on loan? Is there really a difference between a player on a season long loan and a player on a 1year deal?

We made some great signings last summer and have extended some of our players already (very much hoping there's more to come.

But we can't have it both ways if we give the players the credit when we win, it can't solely be down to coaching when we lose.

As a coach and as a manager sometimes unpopular decisions have to be made. What I would really like to know is what Leeds definition of success is- short and long term

Quote:

Carnegiette1
Is there really a difference between a player on a season long loan and a player on a 1year deal?

There is no difference, and I don't have a problem with players coming on a year long loan deal. I don't, however, like the system whereby a 'loan' or 'dual registered' player can be instantly recalled by his parent club. This does nothing, in my opinion for the morale of the team.
If Rory Clegg kicks us to the Premiership, (very unlikely I know), I'd be delighted, but who is to say, that at the very last minute, Quins won't call him back. In that scenario, I believe the team are being let down.

Carnegiette I think we agree, but had Joe Ford been allowed to play more as our first choice 10 last year would he have been better this year, we don’t know.

When a good player and he is good player like Clegg is recruited it does not help the team that he is call back to Quins at a moments notice,

At which point our own 10 is dropped in when due to incredible management selection to-date he has sometimes not even been on the Bench in previous games let alone had the chance to get his boots dirty.

A season long loan is fine the player should be with us “season long”

But as already stated if Clegg goes to the Budgies, will he play or be allowed to play in the playoff semi or final if we are luckily enough to get there?

I suspect that poor old JF will be dropped in to save the day or more likely due to his lack of game time, be the fall guy.

It is worth remembering that before he went to Northampton (and I know it was his choice) he was seen on a par if not ahead of his brother, Fly-half is a confidence position and if your management shows little confidence in you, its not surprising, if the player is lacking in that area.

"Sorry Haxby did not see your post before I put this one up"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:03:05:14:51:33 by Rocky's Dad.

No problem RD, I think we are singing from the same hymmn sheet. I know that JF did not get what he was promised at Saints, and he realised it wasn't a good move, and was glad to come back to Leeds. If DE didn't want a player who chose to leave, why did he re-sign him? However, this is not a Clegg v. Ford issue, it is wider than that.

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

Very true Haxby.

RD - I agree that the comings and goings of Clegg back and forth from Quins to Leeds won't be helping anyone - him or Joe Ford or the wider Leeds team.

Prior to Xmas we were crying out for cover at 10 - now we have it it seems to have created more issues than it solved. I certainly believe that even if Clegg starts it is a strange decision not to have Joe in the squad at all.

IIRC Joe did play most of last year at first choice 10 - as we played Tommy Bell out of position at 15, though Bell did take the kicks. At the time I thought that was possibly not to put too much pressure on Joe. It was only the last game of the season (again I think but happy to be corrected) that Bell started at 10 - to plaudits from most of this board (me included)

Loan players CAN work - particularly season long deals, but clearly it needs to work for both the player themselves and the Club.Not sure Leeds have the balance right at the moment.

Carnegiette, you're right about last season. Joe did play most of the season at 10 although I believe this was accidental.

Tommy was signed as a fly half and I believe would have played there if the long term injury to Stevie McColl hadnt forced DE to play him as an emergency fullback. By the time Stevie was fit again we were in the middle of our good run and DE didnt want to rock the boat. I think DE as good as said this himself in the end of season review.

DE clearly dosent rate Joe so why he signed him I dont know. I personally don't think that even season long loans work unless the player then goes on to sign or us permanently.

The Tommy Bell situation sealed it for me. He was outstanding for us last season and when he returned to his parent club he found he was surplus to requirements. Surely it would be a foregone conclusion then that he would sign for the club where he had been so successful in his loan spell. We gave him the opportunity to do just that.

As we all know he signed for Wasps. Ditto Halani Aulika who after a shorter contract with us was, according to DE, offered a 'Premiership deal' to join full time and chose London Irish instead.

Whilst I take the point that contracts appear to be worth very little, its all we have got.

We should invest our time and effort in those who commit their future to us in return.

I'm getting old, I've just had to Google IIRC.

Mortified.

Zandra YaPoI
YaPoI - Yorkshire and Proud of It

'proficiscor in una'

Quote:

Zandra LaPoI
I'm getting old, I've just had to Google IIRC.
Mortified.

Haha that made me smile!

We will always be up against it to sign players if they have Premiership options - it's the way of the world. And don't forget the Chris Bell connection for Tommy at Wasps. I don't begrudge any player wanting to play in the Premiership.

I absolutely want us to have the nucleus of a squad that we have home grown and developed ourselves. But there is a time where Loan players can be useful- IF it works for everyone.

Talk here about contracts not being worth the paper there written on etc misses a critical point. We do not know the exact wording of contracts so are largely in the dark anyway, and most will contain clauses saying that if a "higher placed club shows interest" etc., etc so the players concerned are in fact sticking to the written conditions.

Haven't Wasps signed 2 No. 10's from Worcester. Will make Tommy's opportunities a bit limited. Maybe we should try and sign him up?

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