Plan B? There is no plan B


By Gelbel
January 31 2016

So I built the annual girls' weekend away around Yorkshire Carnegie's trip to Richmond when one of the girls asked: "Can we go to London?" I bet she wished she hadn't as, besides being a rugby virgin, she asked me several times in the hours after the match and over dinner: "Why didn't we try harder?" I do like her we mentality. Which is a pretty good question to ask because for all bar a 25 minute section around half time (10 minutes of which London Scottish had a player in the bin) Yorkshire Carnegie seemed to be half asleep.

You sort of knew it was going to be one of those days when Sinfield's kick off didn't go 10 - it went three at most then went backwards and the stiff, cold breeze wasn't even blowing in that direction to carry it back.

Scottish started on the front foot and were attacking from the off. It was only a series of forced mistakes that stopped them scoring sooner after their catch and drive proved ineffective and they opted for a kick for the posts.

They went further ahead when Scofield proved himself to be an immobile object when he was isolated and Stegman, sporting an awful beard to counter act his waxed and oiled legs, couldn't keep hold of the ball and a try was scored from the advantage. The conversation was missed. 8-0.

Yorkshire Carnegie realised they were in a match and half got out of their stupor.  The catch and drive from a series of infringements was used to move the ball up the pitch. At the final catch and drive, a penalty try was awarded that was converted which was promptly followed by a Scottish player being sent to the bin. 8-7 and that's how it remained at half time.

Pilgrim got a knock late in the first and was replaced during the break by Green. At the start of the second half Yorkshire Carnegie came out all guns blazing - when I say guns, I mean those plastic, cap guns we had as kids! But it was enough oomph as another catch and drive from a penalty saw Charlie Beech plop over the line with all the aplomb of a bull elephant seal manoeuvring himself into the sea. I don't mean that to be rude - it was a majestic sight to see the big man land dive forwards, over the line. The try was converted, 8-14.

By then Scottish had sussed the catch and drive mentality and were coming away with the ball or causing Yorkshire Carnegie to make unforced errors which were pinged or managing to push us backwards. About three or four attempts came to nowt, so at the next penalty Sinfield went for, and got the three points.

Like Groundhog Day, another few catch and drives got us nowhere quick and it was blindly obviously (as the rugby virgin asked: "Why do they keep on doing it when it isn't working?") that the tactic was not working but no other plan was forthcoming, yet alone working. So after another few failed attempts, Kev kicked a penalty and it was 8-20 with 10 to go.

Then the action was all up the wrong end of the pitch and the tannoy chappy got the crowd going. "You watch us lose this", I said to my chums. They thought I was mad but the regular Carnegie fans didn't.

Scottish were doing a fair amount of catching and driving of their own. Yorkshire Carnegie's defence was holding strong but a well worked try and conversion came from the novel idea of the forwards linking with the backs and a few poor tackles saw the score jump to 15-20.  With 80 minutes on the clock (as you can see from the picture) and with about three maximum to play, that should've been it. More catching and driving from Scottish ended with Buzz being binned for some misdemeanour or another. Several times we got our grubby mitts on the ball but somehow squandered the chances with awful decision making on kicking it away and failing to make touch. So on the last of those occasions, Scottish charged, found a gurt big hole in the defence and scored. The difficultish conversation was successful and another dreadful attempt at defending a reasonable lead had hit the dust. One word AWFUL.

My views on the match; Holmes was industrious all match but wasn't getting the breaks and, at times, support he needed. Likewise Prell, Casson had a bit of life about him but he's not that fast so gets swamped very easily.  Beech was just about all over the place and in the second half Buzz decided to do a bit of battering ramming with Green having a good half personally - he's a live wire and can deliver quick ball. The kicking out of hand was awful - out on the fulls, slices, not even finding touch - you name it. Sinfield was having a more than a bit of a mare. He couldn't really cope without Leonard behind/guiding him, was in the wrong position many times and tried too much fancy off-loading.

The distinct lack of plan B (tee hee - I'm typing this on my mobile on a train home from my weekend away and predicted text put that as p●● beat) was and is very concerning. The catch and drive is now becoming boring and other teams who have a big pack can work out how to disrupt it with a miniscule amount of homework.

This awful performance was not down to loads of changes since the last outing. I believe much was down to poor team selection. Scofield's not fit - he was huffing and puffing after 10 minutes, Sinfield proved himself too inexperienced for that level of opposition and needs support from Leonard to carry him, and as for Stegman - a partially fit Oli Goss knocks spots off him. Add in a lack lustre performance with the usual dip in effort and absolutely no ideas when the game plan is not working and you've a recipe for disaster. Back to the drawing board and stop this grasping defeat out of the jaws of victory even if it is only by a point or two.

Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 17:30

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:15:11:46:47 by Wildwillie .

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 17:42

Thanks for that Gel, glad I couldn't make it. I was thinking earlier how last season we had plan A, B and C. If plan A (give the ball to Buzz) didn't work, we moved on to B. (Give the ball to Buzz, again). Plan C was exactly the same, and this lack of options cost us a play off place. As I've posted elsewhere, we have some talented and speedy backs, why not use them?

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Carnegiette1 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 18:10

Fair point Hax. I've just braved a look at the table- and we're still top 4, a point off 3rd.

Yesterday wasn't great- it was almost a very ugly win away though. The games we have lost have been by a maximum of 3 points.

Does Brush know his best team? We are about to lose the under 20's to the 6N. I for one, don't mind the forwards dominated game- when it works. But when the forwards are rumbling sideways on one side on the pitch and when there is someone with Prell's pace catching cold on the other side with no defenders anywhere near, we are definitely missing a trick.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Griz66 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 18:29

Good report Gel. Awful is about right,
I cannot fathom Brush's selection logic.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: leemingtyke (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 18:32

It seems to me that we're STILL absolutely incapable of seeing a game out against decent opposition.

It's been going on for the last few years, regardless of headcoach or playing staff, and it seems we're no nearer to a solution.

We're flat track bullies I'm afraid. Just not good enough.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 18:38

Good report Gel - written from the heart. A pity the players didn't put their heart and soul into the match.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Selby Kev (IP Logged)
Date: 31/01/2016 19:53

Agree Gel. Watching on Twitter was bad...live must have been awful!!Looked like a lack of personal prteparation and motivation....maybe even casual over confidence.Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie need to sort out their heads...their mind set...their decision making and their game management.

Usual starting.... after twenty minutes and hanging on to slender lead in last 10...not good enough in this Division. We need a more varied,rounded and complete game... with positive try scoring intent from the kick off...and all the way through!!

Our driving maul is good...very potent at times...but alone...will not get us into the Premiershio. We cannot simply rely on accurate strategic kicking...lineout....and driving maul. We neeed a dynamic confident attacking partnership at 9 and 10 and someone like Wee Stevie at speed to occasionally scatter the pins...we need a functioning back line that see some ball!!.

We are playing a one dimensional formula...lets open up and play with more confidence. Are we afraid to play rugby? Big task ahead in Feb...make or break. I think we just had the win-able game...Pirates are on the up and Donny/Bris will be a massive test.

Cant make next week...will follow...but will be at Donny game week after.We need some steel in these next few games. Be interesting to see how Brush and the team reacts.

Lets see a massive reaction at Headingly. Come on Ye Tykes!!!!!!

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 07:27

Not what I wanted to read. Clearly we are on the wrong track. Brush needs to sort it out before we disappear into mid table mediocrity.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Rocky (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 08:10

Haxby, reference your comment on the 'Todays Game' thread.

I don't think its so much that Sinfield is being made a scapegoat, it is honestly that he didn't play well vs Scottish (and he was not the only one). The distribution from 10 and the kicking from hand were poor, his inexperience in Union was exacerbated by the fact that, although dominant, the ball he got from the forwards and Pilgrim was slow and it left him up against it. One comment I made to the travelling support I was with was whether the lack of a stadium was causing Sinfield headaches....bare with me. He is used to playing in 4 sided venues which will help in judging kicks, the fact he missed touch several times may indicate he is struggling without the visual targets of a stand. Of course he did miss a kick to touch on the stand side so what do I know, I was a prop


There were very few highlights to pick out, Green was one, he looked sharp coming off the bench and is certainly a talent. The concern I have, and have mentioned earlier, is that our expansive game has been eschewed and replaced with a forwards orientated game. As an ex forward I think the driving maul is one of the most beautiful things and is devastating when done right but you need alternatives. One of the benefits in a strong driving maul is its ability to suck in the defence and free up space meaning that, if you lose momentum, you ship it wide and a speedster can dot it down. For a lot of the game Prell would have been warmer on an Artic expedition and, for all his endeavour, was never given the ball in space. One reason, all we seem to do in attack is either kick it or do little pop passes and work our way back 5-10m. Several times we had some space but did this instead of giving it width and releasing a bloody fast pair of Prell and Holmes.

We either need to play a 10 at 12 to give the ball width if Sinfield is going to start or we need to invest in a crash ball player at 12 to guarantee yardage. Hell, if things proceed like this I would say put Jarad at 8 and Buzz at 12....that would guarantee some go forward.

When you have a 12 point lead with 10 minutes to go you need to win, to capitulate time after time is getting tiresome and ultimately will not put us in good stead in the playoffs (if we get into them).

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Selby Kev (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 09:23

Agree Rocky...we have lots of options...lets try using a few more. In this division we need to be scoring points when the whistle goes.There is little seperating the top 6/8. We need to play our game with a more positive mindset.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: JohnnyP (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 14:41

Think we'll be in for a new 10 next season. Need a player who is a threat with ball in hand and good distribution. Square pegs round holes at the moment.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: ellishicks (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 15:20

Quote:
JohnnyP
Think we'll be in for a new 10 next season. Need a player who is a threat with ball in hand and good distribution. Square pegs round holes at the moment.
Who will that be?
We've got three at the moment and you could argue that they're all better than some of the ones we've had in seasons gone by (before Glyn and Loz). If we maul, maul and maul again and the ball never goes wide, I think you need to look at the coaching and game plan. Personally, I'm a bit of a Redpath sceptic, but if he wins the play-offs, I'll say his strategy has been masterly. But there's more to it than that. Mauls are dominating the winter game in the Prem, but the teams play with great pace. The maul is part of an entertaining all-round game. We seem to be predictably one-dimensional. I really don't believe that Kev has lost the ability to throw a longer pass, but if he has the coach should replace him. For me, it's time Redpath made something of his talented and well-stocked squad. As someone else pointed out, it's no use scraping through to the play-offs to play in front of a 1k crowd. We're better than that, or perhaps we were spoiled by Jimmy Lowes and his kind of leadership.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Carnegiette1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 16:35

Don't see the point of harking back to Jimmy.

We played lovely rugby, didn't increase the gate at all, failed to get to the Premiership, our players left and Jimmy went to Bradford.

Not my definition of success.

I don't know the answer. As Brush is being paid to do the job, I hope he had more idea than me! Got to trust in that.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 16:41

Rocky, if most of the payers didn't perform, why was he the only one mentioned? Because.... Probably tongue in cheek about Buzz, but I think Jonah may be worth a go at 9.

Johnny P and Ellis - Dan Carter could play 10 for us it wouldn't make a scrap of difference because if the quality of service they get doesn't improve, they won't get chance to make an impression on the game.

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Time Trial (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 16:42

Quote:
Rocky The Tyke
Haxby, reference your comment on the 'Todays Game' thread.
Jarad at 8 and Buzz at 12....that would guarantee some go forward.

.

Haha- love it! Buzz as a Bastareaud-esque centre would certainly create some impact.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:01:16:44:30 by Time Trial.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Rocky (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 17:00

Hax, the reason he is named is because at 10 eh is one of the most influential positions and this his role is more visible and easy to scrutinise.

An example is that his first kick off didn't go 10, he is not the only 10 to do this but it certainly is something that is noticeable to attendees.

I have no axe to grind with him, I want him to succeed for his and for YC's benefit however it was not a great game to him and as he is in the key game managment position he will be singled out...it comes with the 10 shirt.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Gelbel (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 17:05

Quote:
Haxbytyke
Rocky, if most of the payers didn't perform, why was he the only one mentioned? Because....
It's a pivotal role and his inexperienced/mistakes showed and so did the kicks he didn't get right. The problem with the Athletic Ground is you are level with the pitch so you don't get a bird's eye view so you can't see everything - especially when it's at the far end of the pitch. Much of the time you see a big lump of people (forwards) and the individual backs hanging around waiting/calling for the ball. Another reason I couldn't say what Buzz did wrong - ref was in the wrong place at the far end of the pitch to see his hand signal. I did call out Scofield and Stegman - so you could say I called out the 3 Ss and we know what the first S is!!!
Which reminds me - a couple of times Holmes/Stegman, not far from the action, shouted for the ball to come right as they saw massive gaps and both times it came out (via Sinfield) to the left and the moved died after the first pass to the left.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: JohnnyP (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 17:06

A key objective of a 10 is to bring the best out of those outside him. Not seen much of this lately at Carnegie but it's apparently nothing to do with the way our ten plays until it's Harry or Joel. We've enough up front to beat the weaker teams but will come unstuck unless we have the capability to play more adventurously.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 17:19

For what it's worth, I'd start with Harry, but as I said on another thread whoever plays at 10 needs to get the ball quicker to have any impact.

COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Gelbel (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 17:27

IMO Joel plays the ball quicker.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Carnegiette1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 18:35

I think this was one of the games you had to be there- hard to comment if you weren't one of the long suffering supporters.

Speaking to the players afterwards - they know they didn't play well, but weren't about to blame any one individual.

On a related note- I have noticed it's the same names tending to write the match reports- it would be great to get some other perspectives. Healthy debate is a good thing!

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 18:45

Quote:
Carnegiette1
On a related note- I have noticed it's the same names tending to write the match reports- it would be great to get some other perspectives. Healthy debate is a good thing!

I will resume my almo-eyed reports when I get back to two legs if that helps. Possibly starting with Moseley (but to be confirmed).

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Beeston Lion (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 20:21

Has anyone considered, in relation to Kevin Sinfield, that there may be one more element in the many variables concerning his performance at Richmond? Over a two week period just six or seven weeks ago we gave Scottish 140 minutes to look at a No 10 coming to terms with a new role in a new sport and I bet the coaching staff involved made sure their players were fully aware of ways to deal with this last Saturday!

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Gelbel (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 20:22

They certainly studied our driving maul.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Griz66 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 20:27

I've considered that sadly, at the moment, K.S is out of his depth.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: JDH (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 20:55

Harry at 10 then by the sounds of it..

You cannot put holmes at 9 when he hasnt played yhere for 3 plus years.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 21:13

London Scottish have had a massive injection of international-level coaching and playing expertise in recent weeks and would be in the top four had they been at this level all season.
Sad to lose but perhaps we are over- reacting.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: JohnnyP (IP Logged)
Date: 01/02/2016 21:47

Wasps didn't regard Jonah as a natural 9 and tended to see him as a winger. From what I remember his service was a bit laboured. If we need another 9 I'd rather we got a specialist in. Jonah is at his best in open space lets get a half back combo in that gives him the opportunities. Don't agree with square pegs in round holes.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 08:13

Two points I would pick up on in this thread:-

1. The driving maul is ruining the game full stop - be it Championship, Premiership or wherever. The laws need looking at.
2. We keep making reference to Jimmy's open style. However, those with long enough memories will remember that it was Diccon who created that style and Jimmy simply took it on. Having said that, the Diccon style had much more of a balance to it overall between backs and forwards.

I always had a funny feeling we'd come unstuck at Scottish. To me winning the next two games is now crucial as that will show if we are true contenders or not.

As long as you can get to the play offs anything can happen on the day whether you have finished first or fourth. It's cup football from then on in and look at us.....we're already in the quarter final of the B&I !!!

Keep the faith. KS to kick winning drop goal in second leg of play off final !!!

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: ellishicks (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 10:32

NNS You always supported Diccon and I think you make a fair comment about the style of play that he tried to create and the players he recruited to make it happen. The point about Jimmy is that he seemed to free the players with his management of them.
I'm hoping that when the weather and pitches improve we'll have the onfield decision-making that sets this team free to play with pace and purpose.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Knavesmire (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 12:56

I'm fascinated by the comments most of them consistent with what I saw.

I think Sinfield is being scapegoated. I didn't see him play any better or worse than anyone else on Saturday. He was doing his "draw the man then pass late" trick but no long trademark cut out passes.

His kicking to touch was fine though he [and others] kicked ball way as the backs came under pressure that is credit to Scottish defence. Kicking is often the right option but certainly not to the full back dead centre of his 22 and completely unchallenged - that was driving me potty.

There were some complicated throw around/wrap around manoeuvres that didn't work. I think one led to the Scottish first try when it got coughed up.

Seems to me the boss has got the right components - it just isn't working yet.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: leemingtyke (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 12:58

I was in the anti Diccon camp at the time for two reasons

1. His man management was awful
2. His reliance on dual registered or loan players

However, looking back and if you take the above 2 facts out of it, the all round style of rugby he achieved was probably the best of any coach since relegation and that includes Jimmy Lowes.

We gave Newcastle a hell of a time in that play off semi. I've never seen a defensive display to match the one we produced in the second leg at Kingston Park before or since.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: Time Trial (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 13:47

Quote:
Knavesmire

I think Sinfield is being scapegoated. I didn't see him play any better or worse than anyone else on Saturday. .

We have a critical issue with under-performing backs. This has been evident all season. Before KS appeared we had Pilgrim and Leonard which didn't work well at all. We have very little penetration from 12 and 13 and rarely do we get the ball into the hands of the fliers with any space. Adding the inexperience of KS has compounded the problem and he has clearly been selected on potential rather than current ability. I don't blame him - he's doing well and learning faster than I would have expected. I do have a problem with coaching and team selection. As far as the backs go it is time to make some serious changes. Its fundamentally broken.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 14:48

Very fair and balanced view leemingtyke

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: yorkie ba (IP Logged)
Date: 02/02/2016 18:05

Slow service and flat passing is a poor combination. Other teams three quarters always seem to stand much deeper than us.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: farmertyke (IP Logged)
Date: 04/02/2016 18:46

I cannot add to the match because I was not there. The consensus of posters agree that we do have some talented backs so maybe Brush is to blame for saying how he wants them to play. I am sure if Jimmy L had them they would be playing differently ....:..but then so might the forwards and they have been very effective this year.
I have a nagging worry that the coaching team may not know how to get the best out of this group of backs. One thing is certain they are running out of game time to find out.

Re: Plan B? There is no plan B
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 04/02/2016 20:28

Brush taking direct control will sort it, for sure.

Keep the faith!

I wasn't born in Yorkshire but I got here as soon as I could

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