Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
muppets
By WW
February 7 2016
I went to Headingley this afternoon to find out if we are serious contenders for promotion this season. Surely with 8 games to go the signs would be there for all to see. Well I am sorry to say that key aspects of our game were pathetic today but that will come as no surprise to most people who ride the YC rollercoaster.
We started well enough with a try in the corner by Stegmann after a nice long pass out wide from Casson. However that was all for half an hour as we desparately attempted to gift the Pirates as many points as possible. The catalogue of errors included ffumbling the kick off return, getting a kick charged down close to our line and consecutive binnings for Jones and Myerscough. Without breaking sweat the Pirates were 18-5 up before Saull managed a driven maul try. We then managed to get in front 19-18 before another error gave Cornish a penalty on the stroke of halftime. We went in 21-19 behind against a team who looked decidedly ordinary and who could not win their own lineouts for the life of them.
In the second half we managed to get in front with a bonus point try but at 26-21 we decided to play in our own 22 for a while. Whenever we got the ball we kicked it back to the Pirates to keep ourselves under pressure. Finally when we had made some substitutions we conjured up a 5th try which was right out of the top drawer and included a fine offload from Lewis Boyce who had been on the pitch for only a couple of minutes. Jonah finished the move and Leonard converted from out wide to put us 33-21 up. Did we close the game out? Of course not. We let the Pirates score a third try and secure a losing bonus point.
How did you feel at the end of the game? I felt frustrated! Mostly at our incompetence when it comes to game management. Today we started with a pair of halfbacks who play at such a pedestrian and predictable pace that the visitors sussed them after about 5 minutes. Our pack, with the imperious Beck snaffling lineouts for fun, were clearly on top but the debacle behind the front eight continues. Our back three always looked to get involved and managed 3 out of the 5 tries between them. This only made our tendency to kick away possession even more puzzling.
There were some good things in the game. Dicky Beck, the paddock's man of the match, ruled the lineouts and was prominent at the breakdown. Beech, Saull and Burrows all looked potent with the ball in hand. Three of the tries were scored out wide after quick handling which showed that we can do it that way.
If any of the coaching staff from our next two opponents( Donny & Bris) were watching today then they will be expecting to smash us if we continue with our erratic performances. Brush was remarkably upbeat in his Radio Leeds interview after the game. I hope he was being diplomatic as he had little cause for optimism after another erratic performance.
Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: TykesRugby.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 18:47
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:23:20:10:15 by Gelbel.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:23:20:10:15 by Gelbel.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: opuscoitus (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 18:59
Ref ruined that game. Killed it stone dead. Not prepared to read anything into that performance. sometimes a win is a win and Donny dropping points and Bedford not getting a bonus point means we have got nearer despite best efforts of man in middle.
Never like having a go at Sir as a rule but he was awful,
With 7 games left get the points to finish 2nd or 3rd. I still fancy taking Donny or Bedford over 2 legs Briss different story but they are well clear and dare I say it deserve to be. We had em rattled down there see what they offer in a couple weeks of weeks,
Take 5 points and move on
Never like having a go at Sir as a rule but he was awful,
With 7 games left get the points to finish 2nd or 3rd. I still fancy taking Donny or Bedford over 2 legs Briss different story but they are well clear and dare I say it deserve to be. We had em rattled down there see what they offer in a couple weeks of weeks,
Take 5 points and move on
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: LS3 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 18:59
Excellent Article.
Concur totally with those sentiments WW.
Concur totally with those sentiments WW.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:05
Thanks SST. Do you want to preview the Moseley game?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:07:19:30:00 by Wildwillie .
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:07:19:30:00 by Wildwillie .
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Gelbel (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:08
Quote:Wildwillie
Thanks SST. Do you want to preview the Bristol game?
I am - been signed up for months.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: LS3 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:12
See Gelbel's reply.
Thank you for the offer though and appreciate your interest.
Will let you know via email, what I can do.
Thank you for the offer though and appreciate your interest.
Will let you know via email, what I can do.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Gelbel (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:14
Quote:opuscoitus
Ref ruined that game. Killed it stone dead. Not prepared to read anything into that performance. sometimes a win is a win and Donny dropping points and Bedford not getting a bonus point means we have got nearer despite best efforts of man in middle.
Never like having a go at Sir as a rule but he was awful,
With 7 games left get the points to finish 2nd or 3rd. I still fancy taking Donny or Bedford over 2 legs Briss different story but they are well clear and dare I say it deserve to be. We had em rattled down there see what they offer in a couple weeks of weeks,
Take 5 points and move on
Agreed on all points and re play off semis I said the same to Yeldor and Hornchurch on the way home. It's important come 2nd or 3rd.
This was a must win and they did and in an openish running match. I know there is work to do but to call it pathetic is OTT - I managed to avoid saying that last week and I went to Bedford and Nottingham; the later of which was.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Carnegiette1 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:22
Lot better than last week- needed a win and we got it. I was fearing the worst in the 15 minutes of madness - but we didn't panic and got back in to it.
The tries were well worked- particularly liked the last one.
Buzz was immense- and I think it was Stegmann's best game for us too.
Went to HC to hopefully see a bonus point win against a team who have won their last few- and that's what we saw.
The tries were well worked- particularly liked the last one.
Buzz was immense- and I think it was Stegmann's best game for us too.
Went to HC to hopefully see a bonus point win against a team who have won their last few- and that's what we saw.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: LS3 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:32
Agree with a large percentage of those comments, though, if todays performance is replicated away at Doncaster next week, they'll get tonked (as has been suggested on another platform)
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: ellishicks (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:45
No glass half full for you then WW! But I tend to agree with your sentiments.
However, I need someone with better eyesight than I've got to explain why the ref was so trigger-happy against us. He had the yellow out at the very earliest opportunity and definitely avoided falling into the trap of levelling things out when Pirates infringed with a range of iffy practices.
I'm pleased that the backs at least put the ball through the hands across the line a few times - but it was all a bit pedestrian as you might expect from players who have rarely had the chance in a match this season.
Time and again Cornish delayed us at the breakdown and held the scrum which was quite impressive for what looked like a much smaller side.
However, I need someone with better eyesight than I've got to explain why the ref was so trigger-happy against us. He had the yellow out at the very earliest opportunity and definitely avoided falling into the trap of levelling things out when Pirates infringed with a range of iffy practices.
I'm pleased that the backs at least put the ball through the hands across the line a few times - but it was all a bit pedestrian as you might expect from players who have rarely had the chance in a match this season.
Time and again Cornish delayed us at the breakdown and held the scrum which was quite impressive for what looked like a much smaller side.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: *baldric* (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 19:46
Frustrated? Yes, to an extent. Relieved? Oh yes. Pirates' lineout was shambolic - we owe them a lot for that.
We dominated in the scrum - unfortunately Sir seemed to oppose such underhand techniques as 'pushing' though so pinged us regularly. Interesting that he gave 'crossing' against us too whilst we didn't actually have the ball. Still, he also missed things in our favour such as a huge knock-on from Saul in the first half (though they did score the charge-down try seconds later)
Overall though, we won despite our inability to control the ball. And still don't feel the backs can be trusted anywhere near as much as the forwards - we're a long way from a complete package.
Still a Tyke - whatever the name!
We dominated in the scrum - unfortunately Sir seemed to oppose such underhand techniques as 'pushing' though so pinged us regularly. Interesting that he gave 'crossing' against us too whilst we didn't actually have the ball. Still, he also missed things in our favour such as a huge knock-on from Saul in the first half (though they did score the charge-down try seconds later)
Overall though, we won despite our inability to control the ball. And still don't feel the backs can be trusted anywhere near as much as the forwards - we're a long way from a complete package.
Still a Tyke - whatever the name!
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 20:01
One thing that does need sorting is teams wasting time whe they have a player in the bin. Strolling to line outs and scrums to kill time needs to be stamped on. We were as bad as Pirates. The constant resetting of scrums is bad enough, but when teams are doing their best to get a scrum reset to take time out of the game, the ref has to take some action.
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: LS3 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 20:11
It's time the Unions introduced a Law to the effect with regards scrum resets
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Time Trial (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 20:57
We are so very far away from being contenders. I have to agree with WW - so many issues to fix. Today YC looked like a team that was playing their first game together. We need to get consistency of selection because the players don't work as a team. I am despair over the half-backs - pedestrian distribution, charge downs, dropped ball, running into each other, aimless kicking...
Yes it was Leonard's first start for weeks so he was bound to be rusty but so many errors today. He's still our best option at 10 tho.
Agree with the comments about bizarre refereeing - ruined the first half.
Yes it was Leonard's first start for weeks so he was bound to be rusty but so many errors today. He's still our best option at 10 tho.
Agree with the comments about bizarre refereeing - ruined the first half.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: JDH (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 21:13
Agree, ref ruined the game but most of the posts are very harsh. We didnt click but showed a few signs it was there.
Change scrumhalf for donny and go again.
Change scrumhalf for donny and go again.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Time Trial (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 21:26
Fair point JDH. I should add balance my comments with some positives. Buzz was outstanding as usual- for me he's still consistently our best player. Some good line out steals and turnovers from the pack too. Stegman finished when he had the opportunity. Even Doc managed a jinky run or two.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 21:48
I think you are all being too pessimistic. We played a team on great form, having won their previous 6 matches. The ref, although it is the same for both sides, was not good and constantly penalised the team trying to play - hence the kicking.
We criticise the team for not closing out close matches and today they did - Pirate's bonus point matters not a jot to us.
Before posting "we are not play-off contenders" consider that Donny only drew with lowly Ealing.
However there is obviously a gulf between positions 2 - 4 and Bristol, and sadly an even bigger gulf between Bristol and Premiership survival standard, although Bristol are in position to step up.
I think we are 3rd/4th place Championship standard, but of course, rather than argue about that, let's see what happens on the cursed Castle Park Donny ground.
We criticise the team for not closing out close matches and today they did - Pirate's bonus point matters not a jot to us.
Before posting "we are not play-off contenders" consider that Donny only drew with lowly Ealing.
However there is obviously a gulf between positions 2 - 4 and Bristol, and sadly an even bigger gulf between Bristol and Premiership survival standard, although Bristol are in position to step up.
I think we are 3rd/4th place Championship standard, but of course, rather than argue about that, let's see what happens on the cursed Castle Park Donny ground.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 21:56
Almo, I don't think we are being pessimistic, but realistic. You say, "Before posting "we are not play-off contenders" consider that Donny only drew with lowly Ealing", yet we threw away games at Bedford and Scottish that should have been won.
I'm happy tonight, we are in a play off position, well clear of the team below us, but we are not playing to our potential.
Brush highlights Chris Jones for catching a restart that didn't go 10 yards, and it cost us a try. Top teams don't make those errors.(And it cost me points in the bit of fun!)
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
I'm happy tonight, we are in a play off position, well clear of the team below us, but we are not playing to our potential.
Brush highlights Chris Jones for catching a restart that didn't go 10 yards, and it cost us a try. Top teams don't make those errors.(And it cost me points in the bit of fun!)
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 22:04
Playing to our potential and being play-off contenders are two different criteria. Yes I agree we are not playing to our potential, but we are still play-off contenders with a realistic chance of second place (our season's aim).
Sorry if you lost Prediction league points (not really).
Sorry if you lost Prediction league points (not really).
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: oopnorth (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 23:25
Why be favourites for the play offs, ask Bristol.
Good win today.
Good win today.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Griz66 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/02/2016 23:48
The only positve I can take from that performance is that as@#$%&as it was, we still won.
I'm sick of writing pedestrian.
I'm sick of writing pedestrian.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: North needs success (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 08:51
Keep the faith everyone.
As long as we finish top 4 anything can happen. The pressure is all on Bristol and, for them, anything other than promotion will be abject failure....again ! I still think Andy Robinson is nothing to write home about in terms of his coaching ability and his record to date with the resource he has had confirms that. He has led a charmed life thus far.
Clearly no one expects us to clinch promotion because of our patchy form but that is what will make us so dangerous in the play offs and I'll bet there aren't many want to play us - assuming we get there, of course.
I just feel that if we make the play offs I certainly wouldn't be betting against us.
And don't panic if we lose at Donny on Saturday. We have never play well there in all the times I have been to watch over there.
As long as we finish top 4 anything can happen. The pressure is all on Bristol and, for them, anything other than promotion will be abject failure....again ! I still think Andy Robinson is nothing to write home about in terms of his coaching ability and his record to date with the resource he has had confirms that. He has led a charmed life thus far.
Clearly no one expects us to clinch promotion because of our patchy form but that is what will make us so dangerous in the play offs and I'll bet there aren't many want to play us - assuming we get there, of course.
I just feel that if we make the play offs I certainly wouldn't be betting against us.
And don't panic if we lose at Donny on Saturday. We have never play well there in all the times I have been to watch over there.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Carnegiette1 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 09:42
Well said NNS.
I agree on Andy Robinson- not sure how he has kept his job as long as he has, with the riches he has at his disposal.
Anyone reading this message board without having seen the result, would think we'd lost reading all this whinging. If we are that poor all the teams below us may as well give up now.
I know CP hasn't been a happy hunting ground for us, but Donny are going into the game having drawn with the bottom placed club. I don't agree with saying "we're going to get tonked" 6 days before the game! We may lose- so what? We'll still be top 4.
I agree on Andy Robinson- not sure how he has kept his job as long as he has, with the riches he has at his disposal.
Anyone reading this message board without having seen the result, would think we'd lost reading all this whinging. If we are that poor all the teams below us may as well give up now.
I know CP hasn't been a happy hunting ground for us, but Donny are going into the game having drawn with the bottom placed club. I don't agree with saying "we're going to get tonked" 6 days before the game! We may lose- so what? We'll still be top 4.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 11:06
I agree with NNS, 4th place should be our immediate target. Yes we may finish higher, but does it matter?. Another problem yesterday was the lack of discipline. Pirates scored with the last play of both halves after we gave away silly penalties. On another day, that could cost us a game! The restarts, both ours and theirs were poorly managed. We kicked too deep and the ball was returned with interest, when they restarted, poor communication saw us giving them the ball back. Yes we won, but not in the way Premiership contenders should.
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:08:11:35:17 by Haxbytyke.
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:02:08:11:35:17 by Haxbytyke.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: almostatyke (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 12:12
Next time I pass through the Paddock, I will issue some Happy Pills.......
I wasn't born in Yorkshire but I got here as soon as I could
I wasn't born in Yorkshire but I got here as soon as I could
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: leemingtyke (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 12:50
Seems to me there are two trains of thought going on here:
1. The main thing is getting promoted, we'll worry about staying up later.
2. If we're struggling against our fellow Championship clubs, then we're clearly not ready to go up.
The people who are saying 'for goodness sake, we won the game' are probably in the first camp and the one's who aren't happy with the performance belong in the second.
Both points have merit.
I have a foot in both camps in that I think, for the future of the club, we have to be in the Premiership. But our results say we're clearly nowhere near ready to compete at that level. Not even close.
I want us to go up, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not concerned about what will happen if we do because I think the likes of Newcastle/Irish/Worcester/Sale/Glos would beat us convincingly. And the rest? I don't even want to think about the rest!.
1. The main thing is getting promoted, we'll worry about staying up later.
2. If we're struggling against our fellow Championship clubs, then we're clearly not ready to go up.
The people who are saying 'for goodness sake, we won the game' are probably in the first camp and the one's who aren't happy with the performance belong in the second.
Both points have merit.
I have a foot in both camps in that I think, for the future of the club, we have to be in the Premiership. But our results say we're clearly nowhere near ready to compete at that level. Not even close.
I want us to go up, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not concerned about what will happen if we do because I think the likes of Newcastle/Irish/Worcester/Sale/Glos would beat us convincingly. And the rest? I don't even want to think about the rest!.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: ellishicks (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 14:18
Leeming I think that there's more to it than 2 camps. I'll worry about the Prem when we get there. But until then, we need to stop under-performing and start playing to the potential of the squad that we have and at least get to the play-off final.
Look at our aspiration: "Yorkshire! Carn.." and then look at what Rotherham have done with their limited resources. Look at how Donny have re-built themselves. With our advantages we should be out of sight of all but Bris by now. If we're not, it should be because we're determined to play an ambitious and Prem-style game (and that includes a few mauls to suck in defenders) - We shouldn't be struggling because we can't keep 15 on the pitch or strain to get over the game-line with the backs. When Irish come down next year(it's their turn), are we going to beat them?
Look at our aspiration: "Yorkshire! Carn.." and then look at what Rotherham have done with their limited resources. Look at how Donny have re-built themselves. With our advantages we should be out of sight of all but Bris by now. If we're not, it should be because we're determined to play an ambitious and Prem-style game (and that includes a few mauls to suck in defenders) - We shouldn't be struggling because we can't keep 15 on the pitch or strain to get over the game-line with the backs. When Irish come down next year(it's their turn), are we going to beat them?
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: farmertyke (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 16:03
Sadly not present but we did win and get a bonus point did we not.
And why am I not surprised that Mr Beck was the Paddock MoM.
And why am I not surprised that Mr Beck was the Paddock MoM.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Wildwillie (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 16:48
Quote:farmertyke
And why am I not surprised that Mr Beck was the Paddock MoM.
... ..because we can spot a classy performance when we see one. The lineout steal in front of the Paddock was a pearler - a two handed catch in front of their jumper.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Time Trial (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 17:12
Two years ago at this point we were second in the table on points difference having the same number of points as Roth and Bris. This was a team with a large amount of youth/inexperience but playing exciting rugby and I genuinely felt had a good chance of clinching promotion. The frustration on this message board is that despite all the extra money and ex premiership players full of experience that we have picked up and an ex-international Rugby Union scrum half as a coach we are fourth in the table and playing way below expectations. As it stands this team are not good enough to achieve top 2 let alone promotion. I came into this season full of optimism that this would be our year and that has all evaporated.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: JDH (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 21:14
Give it a rest....... seasons not over yet.
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: SideStep (IP Logged)
Date: 08/02/2016 22:54
Win's a win in my view. Got the 5 points in the bag move on to the next challenge
The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos
The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: opuscoitus (IP Logged)
Date: 09/02/2016 06:50
Side Step...agreed
my view from much earlier on in the post, logged back on today and cant believe some of the things i'm reading.
before game all doomsayers "ooohh Cornish pirates are one of the form teams in the league" "driving mauls boring and one dimensional" "cant afford another defeat like last week".
1. 5 points 5 tries against form team in league.
2. driving maul ain't pretty but it got us back in the game and the only thing "sir wasn't going to "ping" us for.
3. we could have lost that game......we didn't, and closed the gap to teams above us
Move on people
my view from much earlier on in the post, logged back on today and cant believe some of the things i'm reading.
before game all doomsayers "ooohh Cornish pirates are one of the form teams in the league" "driving mauls boring and one dimensional" "cant afford another defeat like last week".
1. 5 points 5 tries against form team in league.
2. driving maul ain't pretty but it got us back in the game and the only thing "sir wasn't going to "ping" us for.
3. we could have lost that game......we didn't, and closed the gap to teams above us
Move on people
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: Tassigny74 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/02/2016 21:26
Quote:leemingtyke
Seems to me there are two trains of thought going on here:
1. The main thing is getting promoted, we'll worry about staying up later.
2. If we're struggling against our fellow Championship clubs, then we're clearly not ready to go up.
The people who are saying 'for goodness sake, we won the game' are probably in the first camp and the one's who aren't happy with the performance belong in the second.
Both points have merit.
I have a foot in both camps in that I think, for the future of the club, we have to be in the Premiership. But our results say we're clearly nowhere near ready to compete at that level. Not even close.
I want us to go up, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not concerned about what will happen if we do because I think the likes of Newcastle/Irish/Worcester/Sale/Glos would beat us convincingly. And the rest? I don't even want to think about the rest!.
This^^^
Re: Carnegie-contenders? Don't make me laugh!
Posted by: JDH (IP Logged)
Date: 09/02/2016 21:44
I think bristol have worried to much about prem rugby over there years in the champ and its played a part in them still being here.
The time to worry is the minute after you know you are there and not before.
The time to worry is the minute after you know you are there and not before.
Sorry, you do not have permission to post/reply in this forum.