Constructive Dissent
Dwindlers
By Ming
August 7 2016
As Carnegie's sixth Championship season in succession draws near, I feel the need for a little constructive dissent. Yorkshire Carnegie supporters are a dwindling but resilient, maybe even bloody minded bunch who so far have continued to turn up despite the club's best efforts to deter them. But this season there are signs that breaking point may be perilously close for those who haven't already decided that enough is enough.
The straw that breaks the camels back will be unique to each camel.
For some it will be a trust thing, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say a lack of trust thing. From the regular reassurances that on field lessons will be learned to the explanation as to the whereabouts of missing P shares money, many have come to the conclusion that if it's announced by Carnegie, you probably shouldn't believe it. And that's if anything’s announced at all.
Others are fed up of leaving Headingley having endured a “matchday experience” when what they came looking for was an atmosphere. That and maybe a few pints of reasonably priced, decent beer.
If none of the above does it for you, try a bit of constant interference from Leeds Rugby on for size. The new board brought with them the promise of autonomy, or at least respectful distance. Kevgate, the fallout from which is enduring as we approach the new season with just one fly half, and the reappearance of J-Lo tell a different story.
Had enough yet? No? Well maybe a bit of gimmick fatigue will see you off then!
On the road B&I games that more often than not end up at Headingley anyway due to the weather and have had absolutely zero effect on league attendances. Changing the club colours for a couple of seasons then changing them back again. We've even seen the name of the club itself changed, several times, with a further (albeit more popular) change a strong possibility. I could go on.
Anyone still coming back next season?
Yeah, me too.
I have no idea why, probably misguided loyalty, but I’ll be back nonetheless.
It's not in the hope that it will all fall into place this year, because I don't think it will. To be honest I think we may have found our level. We’ve slipped from Premiership team, to relegated Premiership team expected to bounce back, to established championship team in the last few years. It could be viewed as a drop of only 4 or 5 places (11th best team in the country to 15th or 16th) but in reality we've gone over the precipice.
If we could put out a team this year that looks like they’re 100% committed in every game, I'd settle for that because in the last few years, barring a few individuals, I don't think that’s been the case. If they could do that, it would be a start.
I’d love to see the forwards dominating the set piece and a ball carrying alternative to the peerless Ryan Burrows. If they could provide a solid platform from which Max Green and the returning Joe Ford can launch the likes of McColl, Holmes, Stegmann and Prell it would be fantastic to see.
But that’s the problem, I can't see it. All I can see is more of the same, the same lack of professionalism, the same poor decision making at pivotal moments, the same tendency to give away a commanding lead in the final quarter and the same empty commitments to learn the lessons afterwards.
Some of this criticism is harsh especially on that group of players who do leave everything on the field every single week, I realise that and to them I apologise. But I'm threaders, as I'm sure they are, with ‘taking the positives’ and if I hear one more player come out after a game and “back the lads to bounce back”, well, that could be my personal straw.
I expect a few knocks for writing this and I welcome them, after all, if you can't take it don’t dish it out. But it’s my reading of the mood at the moment and my perception of the reality; and the distinct lack of enthusiasm that precedes the new campaign seems to indicate that I'm not on my own.
So I head into the new season intending to enjoy the rugby but expecting nowt and hoping for just one thing - to be proved spectacularly wrong!
Come on Yorkshire, you can do it.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016:08:29:10:40:35 by Wildwillie .
I would like to say that you are wrong on all counts mate but, sadly, I agree with most of what you have written.
I agree completely about the on the road concept. It was an interesting novelty first time out but all it has done is to put money in the coffers of the host clubs or, as last season, result in a lot of scampering around on match day to end up with 500 souls freezing on the Carnegie terrace.
One point of detail: The P shares money isn't missing, though it was utilised in a different manner than they first said. After paying tax on the gain and clearing existing indebtedness to Leeds Rugby, most of what was left was paid up by way of dividend to the then parent company.
If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.
I will be supporting the team again this year, but as with many others, on a match to match basis, hoping for success, but certainly not expecting it.
Changes of attitude on the field from the bigger percentage of our squad are required, better reading of the situation and responding positively. Forwards gaining possession consistently and delivering decent ball to backs who only know how to run straight towards the opposition line, not towards the nearest touch line.
Instinct of players are required, not trying to remember what the coach said in training. Think for yourselves guys and do the business. Do the basics correctly and the rest will come.
The potential is in place. One can only hope it happens?
Ever hopeful........
Up the Yorkshire Carnegie TYKES !
However, having got over that mis-apprehension, once again Ming, you talk a lot of (wait for it)....sense.
On the pitch we have 15 opponents who are trying equally hardly to nullify our efforts. So winning matches is never going to be easy. But off the pitch there is no excuse for not putting in the publicity and messages to encourage the fans.
My observations are:
- The Fans Forum has become a "listen to what we say and tell your mates" forum.
- We don't know who our players are, and the club are trying to sell season tickets
- ditto coaches
- also it seems Satsuma have disappeared off the radar (and the new shirt). Any news of replacement sponsors?
I am not known for my pessimism and have purchased a Silver Membership for next season, but I remember the 60's Supergroup, Blind Faith, did not last long.
[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]
Quote:Albert Fishwick
One point of detail: The P shares money isn't missing, though it was utilised in a different manner than they first said. After paying tax on the gain and clearing existing indebtedness to Leeds Rugby, most of what was left was paid up by way of dividend to the then parent company.
Yep, quite right Albert. I should've referred to the initial statement from GH stating that the P Shares money was going to be ringfenced.
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
Quote:Haxbytyke
How do you mean Tass, on or off the field?
I was referring to a comment our chairman ( I think ) made about the rebrand. said there was no plan B. its my firm opinion that we will never get 'on field 'right till we
get the off field right. That means no part time management from another sport ,and a home of our own and become a real rugby club. unlikely at the minute. feels like a make or brake season in terms of engaging with the fans to me.
COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.
Exeter / Leicester and others manage perfectly well running a modern professional rugby business and retaining a rugby club feel. we feel like an artificial corporate entity with little or no engagement with the fans.
oh and headingleytyke is right its all about the money. until we
generate sufficient funds we will continue to struggle.
For example:
Merchandise - if we had 10k fans buying new kit every year then its likely the quality will go up as well as the range expanding. We sell a few hundred shirts every year so its not exactly a prime business opportunity. Clubs with smaller supporter bases probably sell more shirt then us for quality reasons as well as a general apathy in the kit from the support base, its a self fulfilling prophecy. If you were XBlades, ISC, Yorkshire Carnegie etc would you invest a fortune in a wide range of kit which you'll have to give away at the end of the year?
Food/Drink - With attendances of 2000 people you aren't going to have a huge turn over of food so you will get the same @#$%& everytime and have to cope with the dregs. Why invest in great food? Would you sell more, could you sell it for a higher price? Answer is no, not with our fan base. Beer wise there are not constant events at HC so there is always the consideration of waste.
Entertainment - Its a great thing to have pregame entertainment but if you say it will cost a grand (minimum) to put on a show that works out at just under £.50 per fan. Do they get a return on this? No.
Sponsorship - Everyone moaned about the ethics of Satsuma sponsoring us and, although I wasn't keen, I doubt we had a huge number of people lining up to give us £150k annually. As a business decision that sponsorship was 3-4 players, without it we may have had a less controversial sponsor but less money to spend.
The fact is we don't have millions in the bank for us to say lets have great food, entertainment, merch etc....we are a business with a pretty poor cashflow and we have to be reasonable. An extra 1000 fans at full price is £15k per game added to our cashflow or £165k annually.
If we look to Exeter their cheapest walk up ticket is £27 and some a lot more (£57). Total attendances in 2015/16 were 134k, averaged over 11 home games means about 12k per game. Per game that means the average ticket takings are £324k. We averaged about 2k fans per game last year, at about £15 a ticket our revenue per game is £30k. Over a season that is about £330k, or basically what Exeter make in a game.
You can see why this allows them to invest in the team, merchandise and grow the links between the squad and the support.
Its a numbers game and our numbers are low, we are the kind of club that rely on a sugar daddy at this stage. Unless our attendances raise to 10k we won't be sustainable at a high level, to get those attendances we need prem rugby. I would rather the club invest in a playing staff that can get us there then waste it on window dressing, our fanbase is shrinking through apathy and the only way to counter that is to be successful on the field.
our only plan is and has always been if we get to the prem and have a bit of success everything will come right , it doesn't if we want sustained success we need a sensible long term plan carried out by motivated competent managers and administrators .Our off field commercial management aren't under any pressure to perform , why should they be there real job is the rhinos and if were being honest the vast majority have no passion for the club or even a vague interest in our sport
Sadly we are in a catch 22, those who advocate a split from Leeds Rugby much be aware that we would lose one of 'our' key assets which is HC and the associated training grounds. If we were to have our own smaller ground it is something that we would need to pay for 365 days a year instead of splitting it with other parties.
If you speak with any new signings they all say 'the prem standard facilities are impressive' and that can't be overlooked. Yes a lot of the background team are disillusioned with Carnegie but can you blame them? On numerous occasions they've tried to generate a jump in attendance to no real success. Some of the ideas weren't exactly inspiring but if i was them i would be pi55ed off by it all. Selling the Rhinos is an easier and more lucrative marketing opportunity.
Don't get me wrong I am not giving them a pass, I have rolled my eyes at some of the ideas but lets be honest even if they fly posted the entirety of Leeds with literature would we see an increase in attendance.
To look at this threads title lets look at the 'constructive' element. What would people suggest are cost effective ways of marketing the club and increasing support?
Bobba- The new board- plus some of the management you allude to have made themselves available to speak to fans both formally and informally in the last 18 months or so.
The 2 formal sessions that have been organised have been open- and they (the people who have put their money where their mouth is) have been willing to answer questions about their future thoughts on the club- the good things and the bad. However, I do appreciate it isn't always easy to get to these sessions (part of the challenge of the wide geographical location of our fans)- compared to the ease of posting a few comments on a message board for example.
Those of us who were lucky enough to be in Jersey also had benefited from the generosity of our new board post match, so no complaints on that score from me.
It is about walking the walk.
We have underperformed.