LV=?
By ChrisC
November 4 2010
So once again the competition that purports to be all things to all men returns but is it true to the heritage of knock out competitions? To me proper knock out competitions are the stuff of fond memories before the current trend for leagues and mini leagues leading to a mini knock out phase at the end were dreamt up to prolong the competitions and try to sate the seemingly never ending avarice of the clubs.
Rugby followers scoff at the soccer code but at least they still have a proper top level league and a proper knock out competition.
How I long for the return of a true successor to the John Player Cup, which in 1976 took over from the old RFU Club Competition, Gosforth beating Rosslyn Park in the Final in that inaugural year before the sponsorship of Tetley arrived when the government of the day decided that we are all feeble minded enough as to rush off to buy a packet of John Player Gold in the belief that just as our lungs fill with tar there will be a compensatory burgeoning of an otherwise undiscovered latent rugby playing talent which only required nicotine to realise it. Somethings never change!
Then the power companies arrived with Powergen in 2005, when the new Anglo-Welsh format and pools appeared.
Powergen were swallowed by E.On, the German multinational, and were replaced by French multinational EDF and the EDF Energy Cup appeared but they too jumped ship and the new sponsorship by insurer LV started (previously known as Liverpool Victoria Friendly Society to those of a certain age and who may remember the Gabardine clad insurance man calling to collect the weekly premiums!), which ends with this season’s competition. It is an unloved competition by sponsors and many supporters alike and now draws modest crowds during the international windows of the Autumn internationals and Six Nations. It is only when, in the Spring, the knock out phase begins that interest is truly kindled
In its various incarnations since 1971 Bath have been the most successful club with 10 wins followed by Tigers with 6 and then Gloucester and Gosforth/Newcastle each with 4.
It is a shame that the ethos of the John Player Cup was deemed to be “old fashioned” and maybe it was but to me the prospect of Old Crustaceans RFC having the dream of running out at Welford Road or Kingsholm or some other cathedral of the sport was the magical, impossible dream.
Knock out competitions have an aura all of their own, romance, anticipation, excitement, all bound together in a heady mix.
I can still picture myself in the kitchen of my parents’ house nursing my bruises from that morning’s rugby match against another bunch of teenage thugs, the outside world dark with the mid - Winter upon us, the windows streaming from the warmth of the fire and my Mother’s preparation of Saturday tea while on the wireless were the results of the third round of the FA Cup, when the big clubs joined the competition and the qualifiers from the first two rounds got their chance of a giant killing performance, the excitement, the shock as some leviathan of the game succumbed to an unfancied minnow and then the breathless anticipation as the draw for the next round took pace.
I wonder if rugby playing boys (and girls of course) enjoy now those same emotions over the LV= Cup with its pools and arcane cross pool draws – what on Earth is that all about?
Because of the different agendas in play with the participants in each pair of pools it is impossible for me to properly preview the first rounds of matches between the clubs when Tigers meet Quins at Welford Road on Friday 5th November and then Ospreys a week later, all I know is that it is a singularly inauspicious time to launch a competition but maybe there’ll be fireworks.
In these early days the protagonists, in Tigers’ case; Quins, Bath, Exeter and Ospreys all have hopes of progressing in their own premier competitions and so it maybe that they will hold fast to part of the original ethos of the LV= competition and field teams that are constructed, in part at least, of players who do not naturally form part of Premiership match day squads.
Last year in the opening match against Newport Gwent Dragons Lote Tuquiri made his first appearance but aside from Andy Forsyth, Will Hurrell and Ben Pienaar who started with Robbie and Johnny Harris, Calum Green and Dan Hemingway on the bench, the squad was one looking like a normal Guinness Premiership line up with Toby Flood making another return as a replacement from an early season absence through injury – sounds familiar?
Conor O’Shea may be pragmatic and keep his charges’ powder dry for the main event of Quins’ visit to Welford Road in two weeks’ time for a Premiership match, especially given the absence of Care, Ugo Moyne and Nick Easter however Tigers are greater discommoded with Cole, Chuter, Croft, Flood and Youngs all in the EPS squad and injury problems persisting for the home side and of course some of the international players gleaned from over the seas will also be absent, so this could be a perfect opportunity for the Londoners to steal a famous victory at Welford Road and gain a potential psychological advantage for a fortnight hence when they meet again at Welford Road in the Premiership.
I hope that Tigers see this as the subsidiary competition that it is and rest the Premiership players who have laboured through this early season and in some cases are now looking distinctly jaded.
The lightly used Argentinian duo of Agulla and Amorosino will be with their own national squad but I hope Lee Robinson finally gets to start in a couple of matches and that he proves himself and challenges Alex Tuilagi. Similarly let’s see what the venerable Jason Spice can do at scrum half and give Sam Harrison a go if he’s fit.
Somebody like Jordan Crane needs match time so I’d expect to see him play and for my money I’d like to see him given a couple of matches as skipper.
Similarly with Ben Woods, who looks to need some match time, and let Manu Tuilagi have a couple of starts. Steven Mafi hasn’t done much since he arrived so he too can play a part as can anyone returning from injury which will hopefully include either or both Geoff Parling and Louis Deacon
The only potential wider “prize” for the winner of the LV= cup is a place in Europe and if Tigers don’t reckon they can achieve this from winning the HEC or finishing no lower than sixth in the Premiership, then we’re really in trouble!
However this competition can be turned to an advantage by giving players returning from injury some match time and getting the fringe players into a match day unit, much of which we’ll need when, in spite of the Premiership returning in a couple of weeks, our normal front line players will still be absent and of course Tigers need their shopping trip for some front row forwards to be positive as thus far we have just Julian White as a senior player, busily removing his wellies and lacing up his boots and if he’s injured during the LV= the smell we’ll detect won’t be coming from his farm but from the Tigers’ boardroom.
For my part I’m taking a rest while the LV= is taking place so you’ll be spared my blathering for a week but I’ll be back with my thoughts about the meaning of rugby life in general and the Premiership clash between Quins and Tigers on 19th November in particular.
So enjoy the respite, the internationals, if you’re so minded and even the LV= Cup.
Now where’s my Roy of The Rovers FA Cup wall chart?!
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:09:13:40:11 by TigerChick.
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Obviously the Argentinians have ended up being available to us and Conor O'Shea certainly hasn't taken your advice.
I personally would go for a 2-legged knockout so both teams get a home game. If they really wanted to guarantee 2 home ties each there could be a plate competition for the losers. At least then you'd be up against the sides you are playing.
In this competition the best thing both sides could do would be to let each other run up 4 tries each in the first 20 minutes. Then you'd at least both get a point and it wouldn't matter to either of you what the other got!
I'll be round to put your windows out shortly, and can advise where to get the replacements.
That few clubs seemed to win it who weren't called Bath (Tigers 1993 & 7) was obviously why it then went to purveyors of bath water Tetley.
Thanks all the same Chris
It's only here to put cash in the coffers of the Welsh regions. Since they're only getting two men and a sheep watching their Magners games, they had to think of another way of getting more people through the turnstiles. Their answer was to play the 'bloody English'. So a nicely rigged format of four pools, each with one Welsh region, was devised. If we must have something resembling a knockout cup competition involving the Welsh, why not put the 16 names into a hat, draw them out and do it properly?
The Welsh cannot bring themselves to vote for England to host the RWC unless we offer them some action at the Millenniun Stadium but they're quite happy to come to us, cap in hand, wanting us to play in the LV (Little Valued) Cup.
Rule 1 - if you let it bounce, you've only yourself to blame!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:05:08:40:21 by BJ..
thanks Chris - excellent as always!
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The format is pretty strange, but in order to let most clubs play throughout the internationals it has to be a league so there not much we can do? I suppose we could play like they do in a lot of 7's tournaments where its KO, but the losers play in a second tier event, then the losers in the second round also play in another event. Then if you have 16 teams its a straight KO over four round to win the event, and two teams end up with a 'final' for 15th and 16th each having lost their first 3 games. Wonder what sort of crowd you'd get for that :-)
Too radical? Not inclusive enough? Ok well how about - a league; and then at the end of the 'regulsr season' they could have a series of 'play-offs' in which first plays second and third plays fourth and fifth plays sixth all the way down to determine who comes first, third, fifth, seventh, ninth, and eleventh. That way everyone gets a second bite at the cherry!
I tell you there isn't anywhere near enough thought given to arcane, over-complicated and downright confusing competition formats in this sport!
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:11:09:17:51:59 by IDLETIMES.