Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
By TonyTaff
December 29 2008
January 14th seems to be the deadline for Jonno to announce his changes to the Elite Playing Squad (EPS). Please contribute to the debate by listing, on the messgeboard thread below, the changes you would make, citing the performances that inform your choices (if you are picking on form) or state the other criteria you are using.
You can call up a replacement for Josh Lewsey who has retired from international rugby. You have up to FIVE other changes, though you have to drop a player if you are to call someone else up.
How do you solve a problem like Harry? Harry Ellis is using up a place in the squad, but he is banned until the weeek before the 6N, and Leicester don't have a game then. Do you keep him in the squad, and hope he can get some match practice toward the end of the Italy game which you hope will have already been won? (Dream on)! Do you retain him, but send him back to his club for a few weeks and soldier on with a 31-man squad, perhaps inviting him to sign dual registration forms with an ND1 club so he can play an extra game or two? Or do you drop him in favour of a match-fit alternative, knowing you can't recall him unless there's an injury?
Let's put ourselves in Jonno's place, and seek to work out how much of a pig's ear the agreement between PRL and the RFU really is!
Here's a list of the current EPS players (according to the RFU's website):
Forwards | |||||
| Steve Borthwick | Saracens | ||||
| George Chuter | Leicester Tigers | ||||
| Jordan Crane | Leicester Tigers | ||||
| Tom Croft | Leicester Tigers | ||||
| Nick Easter | Harlequins | ||||
| Dylan Hartley | Northampton Saints | ||||
| James Haskell | London Wasps | ||||
| Nick Kennedy | London Irish | ||||
| Michael Lipman | Bath Rugby | ||||
| Lee Mears | Bath Rugby | ||||
| Luke Narraway | Gloucester Rugby | ||||
| Tom Palmer | London Wasps | ||||
| Tim Payne | London Wasps | ||||
| Tom Rees | London Wasps | ||||
| Simon Shaw | London Wasps | ||||
| Andrew Sheridan | Sale Sharks | ||||
| Matt Stevens | Bath Rugby | ||||
| Phil Vickery | London Wasps | ||||
| Delon Armitage | London Irish | ||||
| Olly Barkley | Gloucester Rugby | ||||
| Danny Care | Harlequins | ||||
| Danny Cipriani | London Wasps | ||||
| Harry Ellis | Leicester Tigers | ||||
| Toby Flood | Leicester Tigers | ||||
| Riki Flutey | London Wasps | ||||
| Shane Geraghty | London Irish | ||||
| Dan Hipkiss | Leicester Tigers | ||||
| Josh Lewsey | London Wasps | ||||
| Ugo Monye | Harlequins | ||||
| Jamie Noon | Newcastle Falcons | ||||
| Pete Richards | London Irish | ||||
| Paul Sackey | London Wasps | ||||
| Mathew Tait | Sale Sharks | ||||
Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TT (IP Logged)
Date: 29/12/2008 11:36
Your thoughts are welcome, even if you don't have SKY.
Impressions gained from the EDF and matches you've seen in person are welcome, as are blatant unsubstantiated prejudices
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:30:09:35:00 by TonyTaff.
Impressions gained from the EDF and matches you've seen in person are welcome, as are blatant unsubstantiated prejudices
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:30:09:35:00 by TonyTaff.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Graeme D (IP Logged)
Date: 29/12/2008 18:50
If a player gets picked before 1 January and the player has already played in matches 9 & 10 will that mean they have to miss game 11 this weekend ?
If so I'd go for at least 5 Glos players in that Category.
Graeme
If so I'd go for at least 5 Glos players in that Category.
Graeme
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: PhillFez (IP Logged)
Date: 29/12/2008 20:13
I'd drop Ellis as there is Care and Richards, replacement with another 9 is not easy though.
I'd also drop Vickery if another good prop was around, Mercey, Lloyd? not sure if they play on te correct side.
Straight swap Flutely for Powell. Cato for Lucy
I'd also drop Vickery if another good prop was around, Mercey, Lloyd? not sure if they play on te correct side.
Straight swap Flutely for Powell. Cato for Lucy
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Coughie (IP Logged)
Date: 29/12/2008 20:38
According to the Sunday Times, Richards is also injured and Barrell (Stuart Barnes not Don) has gone for Paul Hodgson, the London Irish scrum half,as the replacement for Josh Lewsey.
1st Jan 2009 is unfortunately too soon for both Jon Clarke, the Northampton outside centre, and Dan Ward-Smith, the Bristol No 8, to be added to the squad. Both these men would have a lot to offer England, but both are playing themselves back into form after recovering from injury.
Jon Clarke, when fully fit, is a classic 13. Tall, agile, quick, good step and swerve, would make breaks and create space for his wings.
Dan Ward-Smith, when fully fit, would be a good ball carrier. Looks fairly quick and powerful, good upper body strength for the close quarter stuff. Lineout jumping ok.
Above Opinion based on sky sports highlights and some premiership games seen on sky.
Finally Kat has mentioned Stephen Myler of Northampton in previous threads. I agree, he has great potential and only 2-3 years ago was playing Rugby League. I would start him at 12 not 10.
Obviously Wilkinson and Simpson-Daniel are ruled out through injury.
1st Jan 2009 is unfortunately too soon for both Jon Clarke, the Northampton outside centre, and Dan Ward-Smith, the Bristol No 8, to be added to the squad. Both these men would have a lot to offer England, but both are playing themselves back into form after recovering from injury.
Jon Clarke, when fully fit, is a classic 13. Tall, agile, quick, good step and swerve, would make breaks and create space for his wings.
Dan Ward-Smith, when fully fit, would be a good ball carrier. Looks fairly quick and powerful, good upper body strength for the close quarter stuff. Lineout jumping ok.
Above Opinion based on sky sports highlights and some premiership games seen on sky.
Finally Kat has mentioned Stephen Myler of Northampton in previous threads. I agree, he has great potential and only 2-3 years ago was playing Rugby League. I would start him at 12 not 10.
Obviously Wilkinson and Simpson-Daniel are ruled out through injury.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 08:35
That's better! After Liceboy pointed out that some of you don't have SKY, I was wondering if I'd wasted my time compiling the article.
My first pick is the easiest one as Lewsey has fallen on his sword, so I don't have to drop anyone. IMHO, there are only two candidates, not least as Tait (apparently already in the squad) is now fit and can cover 13.
They are Nick Abendanon and Olly Morgan. Ollie Smith is an outlier, I s'pose, but I doubt that many England scouts have been spending much time in France, and Hipkiss doesn't possess the skills to cover fullback. [I'll consider centres at a later juncture].
Morgan is playing well, and has just about enough game time under his belt to banish worries about match fitness. Abendanon has failed to banish his defensive frailties, and these have a worrying tendency to appear in the bigger games. He'll need big performances in the HC to silence the doubters, and may still be going to SA [1] rather than scrambling into the England summer set-up.
[1] Where the hard grounds will suit his attacking flair.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:31:09:12:13 by TonyTaff.
My first pick is the easiest one as Lewsey has fallen on his sword, so I don't have to drop anyone. IMHO, there are only two candidates, not least as Tait (apparently already in the squad) is now fit and can cover 13.
They are Nick Abendanon and Olly Morgan. Ollie Smith is an outlier, I s'pose, but I doubt that many England scouts have been spending much time in France, and Hipkiss doesn't possess the skills to cover fullback. [I'll consider centres at a later juncture].
Morgan is playing well, and has just about enough game time under his belt to banish worries about match fitness. Abendanon has failed to banish his defensive frailties, and these have a worrying tendency to appear in the bigger games. He'll need big performances in the HC to silence the doubters, and may still be going to SA [1] rather than scrambling into the England summer set-up.
[1] Where the hard grounds will suit his attacking flair.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:12:31:09:12:13 by TonyTaff.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 09:46
I was going to say that If anyone suggests that Cato is ready, then I'll have a pint of what he's drinking.
What have you been on, Phill?
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
What have you been on, Phill?
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RugbyBiker (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 10:02
Indeed. We don't want Noah making a fool of himself like Varndell did after being called-up before he'd learned to defend.
If any of our youngsters is ready, it's Goode.
If any of our youngsters is ready, it's Goode.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RobH (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 14:52
As you say, with Lewsey gone, a fullback is certainly the alternative, and I really hope they pick an out and out fullback, of which the pick of the bunch in my mind is Morgan - I also hope they drop Jamie Noon! In the autumn, his one reason for being left in - ie, his defensive work, was completely shown up, and his hands are so slow that he stunts whatever chances we may or may not have had from an exciting looking back 3. With this in mind, I would move Delon up to 13, and play Morgan, then bring in another specialist centre - not sure who though.
On other drops,isn't wilko claiming he'll be back for the 6 nations? if he is, is it worth the risk of adding him on the off chance he's fit?
On other drops,isn't wilko claiming he'll be back for the 6 nations? if he is, is it worth the risk of adding him on the off chance he's fit?
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: PhillFez (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 16:49
Ok Tony maybe viewed through Fez-tinted glasses (smileys playing up!) Good point about Varndell exposed too early, never regained the impetus of his early games for club or country. Agree LB Goode is closer.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RugbyBiker (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 17:35
Agree Rob that Noon needs to go (don't need Sky to see that, going to three of the AI's was more than enough!). Can't think of another OC to replace him - but Jonno could take the revolutionary step of playing Tait there with Hipkiss as back-up!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: hertsman (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 19:40
I think Flood will be in the XV - he's come on leaps & counds since leaving Falcons (& co-incidentally joining Tigers)
If EJ is fuming about losing Borth (on the other thread), then let's hope Goode isn't called up yet.
If EJ is fuming about losing Borth (on the other thread), then let's hope Goode isn't called up yet.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Coughie (IP Logged)
Date: 30/12/2008 20:33
On the subject of Tait, I recall he bought into the idea of playing fullback:
[uk.eurosport.yahoo.com]
Then unfortunately he became injured and was not available for the autumn internationals.
Whoever plays at 13 for England in the Six Nations Championship will look good compared to the man who played against Australia, South Africa, New Zealand. Far too little attention has been paid to the quality of the opposition last autumn. Some of the Six Nations sides are pitiful.
If you are considering Tait at 13 for England, then Sale should be asked to play him regularly at 13. And pray he tackles a bit better than he used to!
[uk.eurosport.yahoo.com]
Then unfortunately he became injured and was not available for the autumn internationals.
Whoever plays at 13 for England in the Six Nations Championship will look good compared to the man who played against Australia, South Africa, New Zealand. Far too little attention has been paid to the quality of the opposition last autumn. Some of the Six Nations sides are pitiful.
If you are considering Tait at 13 for England, then Sale should be asked to play him regularly at 13. And pray he tackles a bit better than he used to!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 31/12/2008 09:42
It's just occurred to me that players plying their trade outside England, e.g. Ollie Smith, Andy Goode and, when fit, Perry Freshwater can be picked by Jonno, but they wouldn't be able to join the early training sessions unless their clubs released them early, but the IRB's release regulations would apply.
So, there' no need to consider using up an EPS place with Smith, nor, for that matter, with Goode the elder. That raises the tantalising possibility of naming JBW in the 32, and using Andy Goode as cover, with Geraghty missing out - IMHO he has not developed since making an early splash.
Another contender as Lewsey's replacement is Mark Cueto, who has disappointed in an England jersey before, but seems almost back to his best for Sale (and his best is a lot better than Emgland have managed recently). I note that the Crazy Frog (PSA) is playing him in preference to Tait.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
So, there' no need to consider using up an EPS place with Smith, nor, for that matter, with Goode the elder. That raises the tantalising possibility of naming JBW in the 32, and using Andy Goode as cover, with Geraghty missing out - IMHO he has not developed since making an early splash.
Another contender as Lewsey's replacement is Mark Cueto, who has disappointed in an England jersey before, but seems almost back to his best for Sale (and his best is a lot better than Emgland have managed recently). I note that the Crazy Frog (PSA) is playing him in preference to Tait.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 31/12/2008 09:55
Scrum halves?
It is clearly untenable to go with Care, a suspended Ellis and a crocked Richards - the latter also providing cover at centre in any 22.
Jonno needs a medical prognosis on Richards - if he is likely to be playing before the Italy game, then he should be retained. If not an injury replacement can be called up, without using up one of the 5 permitted swaps.
Perry is back playing, but it's the devil's own job to evaluate a scrum-half when he's playing behind a beaten pack (cue jokes about that being precisely the experience needed to play for England ). Wigglesworth is getting game time, even if the Crazy Frog thinks he might be a fly-half, but seems to be outshone by Wales' third best scrum-half whenever one replaces the other. Paul Hodgson is looking good, but will he get the armchair ride for england that he enjoys with the Not-nots? Dickson is not ready, IMHO.
If Richards is likely to be fit, I'd drop Ellis for Hodgson. If Richards is not going to be fit, I'd retain Ellis and call up Hodgson as one of the 5 picks.
And there's Foden who could provide scrum-half cover, as well as full-back, which might be a way forward, with Armitage D able to move forward to 13, if Noon gets dropped or subbed.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:01:12:10:25:00 by TonyTaff.
It is clearly untenable to go with Care, a suspended Ellis and a crocked Richards - the latter also providing cover at centre in any 22.
Jonno needs a medical prognosis on Richards - if he is likely to be playing before the Italy game, then he should be retained. If not an injury replacement can be called up, without using up one of the 5 permitted swaps.
Perry is back playing, but it's the devil's own job to evaluate a scrum-half when he's playing behind a beaten pack (cue jokes about that being precisely the experience needed to play for England
). Wigglesworth is getting game time, even if the Crazy Frog thinks he might be a fly-half, but seems to be outshone by Wales' third best scrum-half whenever one replaces the other. Paul Hodgson is looking good, but will he get the armchair ride for england that he enjoys with the Not-nots? Dickson is not ready, IMHO.
If Richards is likely to be fit, I'd drop Ellis for Hodgson. If Richards is not going to be fit, I'd retain Ellis and call up Hodgson as one of the 5 picks.
And there's Foden who could provide scrum-half cover, as well as full-back, which might be a way forward, with Armitage D able to move forward to 13, if Noon gets dropped or subbed.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:01:12:10:25:00 by TonyTaff.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 02/01/2009 11:28
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: AlanE (IP Logged)
Date: 05/01/2009 17:14
I'm sorry but I still can't get past the first part of the title of this arti-thread. Jonno has never been part of any fantasy of mine and the thought of him as an avatar in a cyber-world is just too much to take.
[Can't find the right smiley here - they are all showing as crosses. Probably quite approriate when you think of it.]
[Can't find the right smiley here - they are all showing as crosses. Probably quite approriate when you think of it.]
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 05/01/2009 17:22
Just going back to the outside centres, Mike Tindall seems to be the player getting the rave reviews at the moment. Certainly a better bet than Jamie Noon.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RugbyBiker (IP Logged)
Date: 05/01/2009 17:27
Quote:The Bard
Just going back to the outside centres, Mike Tindall seems to be the player getting the rave reviews at the moment. Certainly a better bet than Jamie Noon.
Another of the 50-cap cavalry that doesn't exist.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 05/01/2009 23:33
The carthorse managed one dressage move
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RugbyBiker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/01/2009 10:10
Stil a better bet than Jamie "what's a winger?" Noon.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: JO'G (IP Logged)
Date: 07/01/2009 11:13
relating to Outside Centres passing to wingers they say that Hipkiss has a club nickname of Iron Bar
in the context that you need one to get the ball off him once he has it
in the context that you need one to get the ball off him once he has it
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: six oeufs (IP Logged)
Date: 07/01/2009 14:35
Five Names for you Jonno!! Olly Morgan, Olly Morgan, Olly Morgan, Olly Morgan and last of all Olly Morgan!!! Get my point? Seriously though, Olly Morgan, Nick Wood, Mike Tindall, plus the already nominated James - Simpson Daniel (Sinbad) About time Gloucester got some recognition.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RugbyBiker (IP Logged)
Date: 07/01/2009 14:51
Is Sinbad currently intact?
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: RobH (IP Logged)
Date: 07/01/2009 16:32
Isn't the Hipkiss nickname more to do with his strength in the tackle rather than his refusal to pass?
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: six oeufs (IP Logged)
Date: 07/01/2009 22:06
Sinbad is currently training and should be back in the next 2 weeks
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Graeme D (IP Logged)
Date: 08/01/2009 06:39
After watching the Glos v Sarries match I do think Tindall was on top form, he seemed to have an extra yard of pace, either it is all the walking he has to do now or the servicing of the Queens grandaughter has made him fitter.
Rated Olly Morgan for a couple of years or so after seeing him play for Glos against Sarries in the Steve Diamond era. I did the match report that day and said he was one for the future.
Rated Olly Morgan for a couple of years or so after seeing him play for Glos against Sarries in the Steve Diamond era. I did the match report that day and said he was one for the future.
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: kakshaks (IP Logged)
Date: 08/01/2009 13:55
Terribly dissapointed not to see Iain Balshaw mentioned yet so I will do it for us all........if Iain Balshaw gets anywhere near the England setup next month then I will become a Wasps fan!
.
Noon has to go and unfortunately has to be replaced by Hipkiss if we are playing it sensible or Jon Clarke if we fancy a punt!
.
Noon has to go and unfortunately has to be replaced by Hipkiss if we are playing it sensible or Jon Clarke if we fancy a punt!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: AlanE (IP Logged)
Date: 08/01/2009 18:05
Quote:Graeme D
After watching the Glos v Sarries match I do think Tindall was on top form, he seemed to have an extra yard of pace, either it is all the walking he has to do now or the servicing of the Queens grandaughter has made him fitter.
He's got three years to keep fit now
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Graeme D (IP Logged)
Date: 08/01/2009 20:48
I thought three years was a bit heavy until you read that it is his second time.
Graeme
Graeme
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 11/01/2009 17:04
Quote:six oeufs
Five Names for you Jonno!! Olly Morgan, Olly Morgan, Olly Morgan, Olly Morgan and last of all Olly Morgan!!! Get my point? Seriously though, Olly Morgan, Nick Wood, Mike Tindall, plus the already nominated James - Simpson Daniel (Sinbad) About time Gloucester got some recognition.
Ah! Reasoned debate, citing recent performances? Count the points of justification on the thumbs of how many hands?
Coat, and tin hat, please?
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Kat. (IP Logged)
Date: 12/01/2009 08:18
One small problem for the Olly Morgan and Tinds campaign.
Oh well Jonno... better keep all those Waspies in, and then let Baff absolutly slaghter them on the re-arranged fixture
Oh well Jonno... better keep all those Waspies in, and then let Baff absolutly slaghter them on the re-arranged fixture
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: Graeme D (IP Logged)
Date: 12/01/2009 09:51
Well Foden and Clarke played well for Saints at the weekend ! and if push comes to shove we do have a pretty goode Full back coming on.
Graeme
Graeme
Re: Fantasy Jonno - U make changes to England's EPS
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 12/01/2009 10:35
The Tindall injury may not be as serious as that of Morgan. If Morgan is unavailable, then Foden's claim looks strong given the flexibility that he (and Delon A) offer.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
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