The Cull: One month on.
By Kat
March 25 2009
Is it the Saracens JFK moment? Where were you when you heard a number of our first team were trimmed by a new SA DOR shooting from a book repository, or a lone gunman behind a grassy knoll? I was at the O2 when ‘Somebody told me’. Over the next couple of hours I was to be entertained by ‘The Killers’, Over the next couple of weeks I was to be dismayed by the actions of ‘The Cullers’
So it has been a month since the The Beeb reported that ‘Saracens have told 15 of their playing staff they will not be required next season as they will be replaced largely by South African players.[1]’ And, after a verbose display at the Fans Forum the week before, Edward G and Camp Saracens have been relatively quiet on the facts behind this story. So I thought I would take a chronological look at the events of the past month and crystallize some of the questions that still remain.
Mon 23rd Feb: After the announced early departure of Eddie Jones, Brendan Venter came to visit the squad and let a large proportion of the first team squad know they will be surplus to requirement for the 09-10 season. It was reported these included; ‘Former All Black Chris Jack, the highest-profile casualty, along with Cencus Johnston and long-standing club men Kevin Sorrell and Ben Skirving.[1]’ By Tues 24th this was leaked to the press and by Weds 25th the reporting of this story was rocking the world of rugby, especially with rumours such as a South African invasion, with players largely replaced by those from the S14[1].
First Question: So what is the real reason these squad members have been laid off?I have to ask, because three conflicting reasons have come from those close to the squad;
1: Cash: the club statement at the time[2] stated; ‘This has been a difficult week but the reality is that Saracens are not immune to the economic realities being faced by many companies across the country.' And other early reports seemed to jump on the ‘Credit crunch’ band wagon [3]
2: Nigel’s program notes from Bath game ‘essentially these were rugby decisions.’
3: Venters desires ‘"I only took the work, as director of rugby because I see it as a challenge to create a team that will be supported by South Africans abroad," [4]
Items one and two can be easily reconciled, if it was deemed that players rugby ability did not offer value for money. However two points contradict this way of thinking. Many of the players are still in contract and it would actually COST money to buy them out. Secondly, some of the alleged players on the list have made truly stunning debuts this year and have been crucial in returning key results for the club. However they are also the players that have only just secured first team contracts and are unlikely to be on big wages. With the amount of promise they show – are we really meant to believe the cull was a rugby decision. Couple this with the first statement from the PRA dated 26th Feb. “All the players are devastated by this unwarranted treatment; we do not see this breach as a reflection on their playing form or a cost cutting exercise, as has been suggested.” [5] and the reason for the cull was looking more and more like option 3. The feelings of many Saracens fans was clarified in the blog of Eric Jansen in The Telegraph [6] "is this new, artificially created team still the one I deeply care about?"
Weds 25th Feb: Edward G chose to come on-line, to this forum to answer any queries which was a brave and honourable step considering the questions that were bound to be asked. However I would question his timing. This Wednesday was also an A game at OA’s v The Army and support was torn, between staying to show solidarity with our boys that had just been made redundant and rushing back to see what Ed G had to say.
Thurs 26th March: The first PRA statement reflecting on ‘This is a very sad chapter in the history of such a famous club’ [5]
Sun 1st March: A truly awesome, nail-biting win over Sale. The Huddle at the end said it all. Sarries were a team – fighting for one another. For a short period on a Sunday life as a Fez was great. Unfortunately this feeling was to be undermined by what our new DOR had being saying in SA over the weekend.
Mon 2nd March: Brendan Venter causes waves in South Africa as well as here in Hertfordshire as his native press accused him of poaching SA players. ‘Venter told Afrikaans Sunday newspaper Sondag this week that he didn't want to get into a mudfight over players in the media.’[7], and confirmed his desire for ‘A rugby home for Boks’ [4]. I think Big Bri summerised reaction to this article best; ‘That interview makes me puke.’ [8]
Coupled with this it was reported that Venter had already approached a number of S14 players to recruit them to Sarries. Springboks Schalk Burger, Jean de Villiers and Schalk Brits have been approached. “De Villiers and Burger turned down the advances. Other players to have been approached include Lions hooker Ethienne Reynecke and lock Anton van Zyl as well as Lions captain Ernst Joubert. Sharks player Frik Venter is said to have accepted an offer to turn out for the club. [9]”
However to date, none of these, or any other reported signings have been confirmed officially by the club. While other teams such as Wasps and Glaws are trotting out the expected announcements that co-incide with this time of year there have been none from Sarries, leaving us looking decidedly bare for next season, which prompts me to ask;
Question 2: Who will be playing for Sarries next season, Are they of comparable quality to the players let go?
Weds 4th March: RFU to investigate SAIL [10]
Sat 7th March: Game at Quins. A loss, for which EJ blames ‘heads being all over the place’ [11] "This week was always going to be much harder than last week. You know, you lose your girlfriend and go out and have a drink and for the next 48 hours you are all right." "Then you go home and your girlfriend's not there and that's when it starts to sink in. That's what this week's been like. I was anticipating emotionally we'd struggle in the first part of the game but not as much as we did. I'm really disappointed with our application to play for each other and I apologise to our supporters for that. It's really not good enough." - It wasn’t
Mon 9th March: Second PRA Statement. Uncertainty grows, “Information given to the players by the club this week is fundamentally different to information the players received last week." [12]
Fri 13th March: The club and Eddie Jones part company. Richard Graham will act as Head coach until the end of the season. [13] This is despite point 9 on the original club statement “9. The club has complete confidence in the professionalism and commitment of its current squad, and looks forward to a strong end to the season, under Eddie Jones.” [2] The same day it is announced Richard Graham will also be leaving at the end of the season to take up a coaching role with the wallabies. [14]
Sun 15th March: Game against Bath. Another awe-inspiring performance by the players showing they were holding true to their words and were “committed to honouring their existing contracts and continuing to deliver for their club, Saracens.” [12]
However this was also an experiment by the club, with tickets being handed out to the South Africa Supporters Club. Anecdotal evidence from around the ground suggested that just as many Saffas were he to see the erstwhile blonde Butch James than support the Men in Black. With Baff looking likely to relocate from The Wreck’ to Swindon next year, and with Swindon being also just a hop away from Paddington, it looks like SAIL may have some competition for the London Bokke Rand. Couple this with the widely reported over estimation of South Africans in South London, and the new Visa situation they face and it is difficult to see how focusing so hard on just one ethnic group will pay dividends – and also leads us to Q3.
Question 3: Long term are Saracens planning to stay in their North London/South Herts homeland or relocate to South London?
Thurs 19th March: Controversial report in the Times of a U-turn by Saracens with regard to the contracts of key members of staff. [15]. Controversial because Edward G was quick to point out “The 'U-turn' article in The Times yesterday contained one or more factual errors in every single paragraph.” [16] and yet fails to point out what these errors are. No official report has come from the club to confirm or deny the facts.
Sat 21st March: Saracens lose to Tigers.
So Edward, You asked for time and said “As a club, we will recover by being honest, by being clear in our objectives and, gradually, by earning the confidence of supporters who feel uncertain today.” [17] However it has been a month since a large proportion of our first team squad were sacked and still we are no nearer the truth. This represents nearly a fifth of our GP season, the club has been overshadowed by this news when we should be striving onwards and upwards towards HC rugby and some ECC silverware.
As Brandon Flowers Sung at the O2 a month ago [18];
“There is no message we're receiving
Let me know is your heart still beating
Are we human?
Or are we dancer?
My sign is vital
My hands are cold
And I'm on my knees
Looking for the answer
You've gotta let me know”
Note 1: I have refrained from using any players names, except in specific quotes, and I have fully referenced all my sources, Hopefully this ensures I cannot be accused of ‘An error in every paragraph.’
Note 2: For those expecting a Tigers match review: They were better than us.
1: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/saracens/7908906.stm
2: http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=5162
4: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12331_4990915,00.html
5: http://www.prarugby.com/41_1095.php
6: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ericjanssen/blog/2009/02/25/saracens_become
_a_south_african_enclave__why
7: http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Rugby/Super14/354/e6448cc103444d7b917
fa8b1b1cc1fdb//Venter_Im_not_poaching_Boks
8: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,10226588
9: http://www.lions-tour.com/news/viewarticle.asp?id=18656
10: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/mar/04/rfu-saracens-irb
11: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/7906147.stm
12: http://www.prarugby.com/41_1101.php
13: http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=5201
14: http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=5196
15: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/rugby_union/article5935014.ece
16: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,10291997
17: http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,10212760,page=1
18: http://www.elyricsworld.com/human_lyrics_the_killers.html
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:04:14:07:37:23 by TonyTaff.
Brilliant.
I hope EG will be able to shed some light very soon.....
Burning the Boards London Style
[images.google.co.uk]
However, I can say that excellent progress is being made on all sides and we anticipate making a series of uplifting announcements during the week starting April 6,
Thanks for your patience and continuing support.
Edward
Good stuff as well.
It is all relative
Quote:EG
most importantly, it would be grossly unfair on the players.
Do you not think that suddenly worrying about what is unfair to the players now is slightly akin to shutting the stable door after the horse has gone bye-bye?
Thanx to everyone for their comments.
Bboonie xxx
Great article and objective (ish!) summary of the situation.
Thanks also to Edward G for keeping an eye on and responding to these mails/articles
Massive pat on the back.
Edward G
You are right - a process has certainly been triggered. How very appropriate! I sincerely hope its one that Saracens are eventually able to recover from. Maybe we'll be 'uplifted' from the slough of despond back to where we were at the start of the season when everything finally seemed to be going so well - before our new 'management' (and I couch that term grudgingly) started to 'plan' for our future.
"Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams."
On second thoughts - perhaps that should have been 'stamp' on them and I thought that was a citing offence in rugby.
It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!
I really liked the summation, but, sorry Kat, I think you blew it with your comment above about fairness.
Were you sat in on the meetings where the players were told that their services were no longer required? Presumably not.
Were you sat in on the (alleged) meetings where the players were told that their services were still required after all? Again, presumably not.
[Please correct me if my presumptions above are wrong]
So, you don't actually know what has been said, by whom or to whom. Even if you've been speaking one-on-one to any of the players, what you're getting is their interpretation and not necessarily the facts. As a senior manager, I know from experience that was has been said is not necessarily what has been heard.
Fairness is something that cuts both ways, so, unless you can evidence precisely what has been said at every stage, how about showing some yourself?
Still, that said, good article.
"take a chronological look at the events of the past month and crystallize some of the questions that still remain."
As you said the article was a summation of what has happended.
(Add Fri 27th March: Gaffney says "It doesn't feel like the club I left last summer at all and I don't really recognise the place and I couldn't believe they had just sacked those players. Don't they realise what a huge chunk of money it is going to take to pay those contracts off? Have they really thought this out?" a possible Ref 19 - See Big H's post.)
The following comment by me is a return to the message board discussion, where all opinions are valid (although not always accurate).
The article is a fully referenced, and therefore accurate as I can make it.
My comment and opinion is that the players have been treated unfairly comes from a part of ref 12 I did not cite "With only eight games left in the regular season, most recruitment in the Guinness Premiership has already been finalised, which leaves these players in a vulnerable position. This is a very sad chapter in the history of such a famous club, and has sent shock waves throughout the entire PRA membership."
and comments from and interview with WVH "Most have started to seek new clubs, but have found clubs unwilling to pay them what they are worth because they are aware that they are desperate for employment. This last week or so has been chaos at the club,” Springbok flanker Van Heerden" Call this ref 20, but is purely my opinion and therefore did not appear in the main thread.
20: [www.keo.co.za]
Precisely, and that's why I thought that this was the best commentary yet on everything that's been happening.
The comment from WVH is interesting, and, yes, to a point, reinforces your "fairness" statement - though you could also advance the argument that any player who has ever been released from their contract at any stage has been in precisely the same situation - it's just that there's (maybe) 15 players from the club in the same position at the same time. Does the fact that there are "15" players in this position make their treatment more unfair than if there had been, say, 4?
I'm not debating here the rights and wrongs of what Venter has done - this is purely about whether players have been treated fairly.
I guess we will have to wait and see.
Keith. Are you defending what the club has said it intends doing?
Dan S and Sprout III may be considering themselves lucky, although in Sprout's case he has the right passport.
They've been conducting their business behind closed doors - as Kat lays out quite clearly above.
Yet people are being very quick to judge that the players have been treated unfairly based on supposition and conjecture.
As I said to someone earlier today about an entirely unrelated subject - until I see something confirmed in black and white by someone in authority, anything else is gossip and rumour.
Thanks for the article, deserving of all the approval stated here. But, just to show that I've read it closely, is the pedant in me correct in thinking that, when I responded to Edward Griffith's first post on here it was not 25th February, but the Sunday 8th, around 5pm?
Edward G has confirmed that the Cull took place.
It was palpably unfair to the players
Whether or not the rumours about re -signings etc are substantiated, the Cull renains an irrevocable stain on the clubs honour as a rugby club and employer.
I spaek not just as a Saracen and rugby fan but as a solicitor who has been in practice for 30 years and who has spent all of that time protecting the rights of employees and others in legally disadvantaged positions.
Regards
Saracens wasn't working prior to the 'cull'. The management team has a duty of care to the investors as well as the players.
Incidentally some of the young players who have been starting regularly this season, were also advised they would be superfluous, but now appear back in favour.
What actually gripes is that a man, who has been appointed next years manager, pops into the country / club and proceeds to cull what he considers are less than useful players. He has not been present at a single prem match. maybe at best seen a few videos, and proceeds to make a monumental decision.
I really do not think you can get that genie back in the jar and hence by mid next season we will have another manager.
Quote:is the pedant in me correct in thinking that, when I responded to Edward Griffith's first post on here it was not 25th February, but the Sunday 8th, around 5pm?
RW - You are entirely correct - The pedant in me will point out I didn't say, for the first time...
Fresh eyes - Hate to say it, but a large part of me (The part of me loyal to EJ, Gaff and our current squad) hopes you are right! (about the young players and the new DOR - not about the trouble maker, given the circumstances I don't think anyone can be called that)
I saw Jake White at an A game recently. That seems to tick all boxes.......
Thanks agin for everyones approval. The article is not 'brilliant.' As I have said I have only tried to state the facts. The reason it makes such entertaining reading is because the club have truely made a hash of how they have managed themselves this month. It is their incompetance that has provided the amusement of the article (and the despair we actually feel).
Whatever the situation I really, REALLY hope the boys do one over on Wasps tomorrow.
Quote:CH - Four SF in two years (best we have had in ages). A coherant handover stratagy between AG & EJ. It seemed to all be coming together to me. We were getting there, and you build it... they will come.Saracens wasn't working prior to the 'cull'.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:03:28:20:24:03 by Kat.
[url=http://[news.bbc.co.uk]]BEEB[/url]
Talks (by Nige) about honouring contracts
"Saracens chairman Nigel Wray says his club will "honour all contracts" of the estimated 15 players set to leave Vicarage Road at the end of the season"
Dave L
Quote:Dave L
Interesting article on the BEEB
[url=http://[news.bbc.co.uk]]BEEB[/url]
Talks (by Nige) about honouring contracts
"Saracens chairman Nigel Wray says his club will "honour all contracts" of the estimated 15 players set to leave Vicarage Road at the end of the season"
Dave L
This came from a live interview on Radio 5 at about five past two on sunday. A time when strangely most of us were occupied and the club were hosting Sky TV. Whilst I admire the bare faced cheek in snubbing Barnesy - I do wonder at the timing.
A lot of heartringing sentiment from Nige, admissions of mistakes, implied criticism of EJ, implication of a new role for SuperKev and a statement along the lines that the players all asked BV what the future held for them and implication that they all were given the option of seeing out their contracts and trying to prove BV wrong. However, the key point he wanted to get across was that professional rugby in its current format was unsustainable at Saracens. Only 2 options; find new markets or start winning trophies.
What I found fascinatinating on Sunday afternoon were the continual moans i got fromn the pests fans and their stories of the thousands who have given up on them because they will go one season without winning a trophy.
even when they dont play the rugby section is all about them and espec the boy wonder
"Related articles
Richards is happy to be top dog as Quins do the talking
We must find gritty side to save season, says Shaun Edwards
Super-boots help inspired Danny Cipriani find his feet again
Don't recall flaky Cipriani if Flood's out, says Guscott
Exiles can end Wasps' Euro hopes, warns boss Edwards"
