Sarries backchat costs another game


By The Saracens
December 5 2021

A constant feature of Sarries games this season is turning out to petulant behaviour, which gives easy penalties, which are costing matches.

Sarries give Tigers win by one point, after a petulant off the ball push that gave the hosts an easy penalty kick at goal.  At home against Irish, two senior Sarries players give an easy penalty for back chat that gives the visitors an unexpected draw.  Backchat, leading to an easy three points for visiting Falcons, did not affect the result. Yesterday, back chat – twice - leading to an easy three points gave Exeter a home win, instead of a draw.  Disciplinary penalties have cost Sarries two wins and a draw so far this season. This is absolutely unacceptable, doubly disgraceful when every single incident has involved the most experienced and senior players at Sarries.  This is not the behaviour of Premiership contenders.  It cannot continue to be the behaviour of players at a club where Humility and Discipline are key words of the identity mantra.  It will not attract support.  It will not earn international recall for players involved. Without this litany, Sarries would be P9, W8 D1.  With it they are P9, W6, D1, L2.

For my own interest, I watched yesterday’s game trying to adopt the mindset of a person who never played the game, is watching it for the first time, perhaps curious about the hype surrounding the broadcasters’ touted bad blood between Exeter and Sarries.  One is in the news for offensive patronisation of the Native American culture, the other for being the club that stole the patronisers’ legitimate titles of recent years. 

To be honest the experience of watching through the eyes of a first-time viewer was thoroughly underwhelming.  Big men run into each other, fall over, get up, run into each other fall over.  Others, not so big, stand at opposite ends of the field and kick the ball to each other.  From time to time, the big men line up and someone throws the ball at them from the edge of the field.  As a diversion, the big men occasionally form two human battering rams and push at each other. Usually, they all fall over, get up and do it all again.  Meanwhile, at every opportunity, lots of people in hi-vis jackets run onto the field, to perform tasks about as comprehensible as those undertaken by people in hi-vis jackets standing on the sites of motorway upgrading works.   A referee blows his whistle a lot, and the TV commentators immediately raise the noise level of their commentary to ensure that TV watchers cannot hear what the referee is saying to the players.  As all this goes on, the commentators are more interested in some profound discussion about caterpillars.  One thinks he knows more about the ‘laws’ of the game that does the global head of referees of the game, one thinks it is a legitimate but unsporting tactic, the third thinks it so arcane that other sides will easily work out how to keep these caterpillars from proliferating.

Rugby is a minority sport in this part of the world and games like yesterday’s will do nothing to change that fact.  It was perhaps a game for purists, those experienced in the arts of scrummaging, breakdowns and falling over.  For the first-time viewer it was plain dreary, and I doubt few first-time watchers would bother to repeat the experience. 

After the game, I read that the RFU has made clear to PRL that abuse of referees, and back chat is abusive, has to be stopped.  What happens at Premiership level is mimicked at lower levels and, because of abuse and worse, the game is losing referees faster than they are entering the role. Without referees there is no rugby.  The sooner players are sanctioned, with a plentiful flourishing of cards, the sooner respect for referees will be a core value of the game again.

After all that, what of the game itself?  I scratch my head.  How could Sarries destroy Exeter in the scrum and line-out, force Exeter into penalty errors on nearly their every visit to the Sarries red zone, and yet lose?  Admittedly, conditions were not conducive to a free-running, handling game, but conditions are the same for both sides.  Did any Exeter player so out-perform his opposite number as to turn the game?  Not to my mind.  As far as I could see, and I cannot bring myself to re-watch the game, the sides were very evenly matched, playing styles so similar that neither had any advantage as a result of surprise, the weather or anything else.  Handling errors were more numerous than usual, perhaps inevitably given the weather.  Referees can influence outcomes, but not today, and injuries can change dynamics, but not today.  I can only assume that for all the thoughts that Exeter were wound-up for the game, to put one over their bete-noire team, Sarries were more affected by the occasion, to the point of losing judgement at key moments.

Sarries have learned a few important things, and still need to learn a few others.  As supporters, we will have been entirely unsurprised by yet another revelation that Maro Itoje is now perhaps the most dangerous defensive player in world rugby.  His tendency to overplay and give away penalties is now controlled, and we see time and again his ability to use defence as a way of creating attack, niggling at opposition confidence, especially when he takes away attackers’ thinking-time.  The Sarries back line, lacking a heavy carrying presence, seems to go for aligning as many playmakers as possible, and yesterday’s trio, Alex Goode at 10, Alex Lozowski at 13 and Max Malins at 15, produced most of the moments of attacking skill that lighted the dreary day.  Having Alex Lewington, Nick Tompkins and Elliot Daly at 11,12,14, does no harm in that department either.  The idea of using the ball to make ground, with players seeking space between defenders, not trying to barge through the opposition, is appealing.  Alez Lozowski is proving to be an important part of the whole.  His kicking is confident and gives stats off the tee that are more than respectable, given his willingness to try from distance.  I presume that with Eliot now back on the team sheet, we may see some reversion to his long-range role, leaving the front-line kicker to hammer home advantage from closer range.  It is good to have seen that good technique by some of the smaller men on the field can be highly effective against the largest.  

I have mentioned Maro, and one other forward deserves a shout.  I thought that Vincent Koch had a very powerful game, in the set-piece and loose, in attack or defence, the pick, with Maro, of the Sarries all-round forwards.  Would that at least three other Sarries forwards could learn the effective use of self-discipline as an aid to being effective team players.

Exeter: (8) 18

Tries: O'Flaherty, Cowan-Dickie Con: J Simmonds Pens: J Simmonds 2

Saracens: (6) 15

Pens: Lozowski 5

Exeter: Hogg; Nowell, Slade, Whitten, O'Flaherty; J Simmonds, J Maunder; Hepburn, Cowan-Dickie (capt), Iosefa-Scott, Gray, Hill, Ewers, Armand, S Simmonds.

Replacements: Yeandle, Kenny, Nixon, Capstick, Kirsten, S Maunder, H Skinner, Hendrickson.

Saracens: Malins; Lewington, Lozowski, Tompkins, Daly; Goode (co-capt), Davies; M Vunipola, Lewis, Koch, Itoje, Isiekwe, Wray (co-capt), Earl, B Vunipola .

Replacements: Pifeleti, Mawi, Clarey, Swinson, McFarland, Christie, Van Zyl, Morris.

Referee: Luke Pearce.

Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: TheSaracens.com (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 13:59

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:12:27:12:29:52 by Darraghgirl.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: Crazytown (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 15:22

I don't think this 2 captains idea is working. Think we need 1 strong captain to make sure the senior players control the back chat, work with the ref and make the right decisions at those key moments. Should have been a penalty kick for a line out at 18:12 with 10 minutes to go. Didn't think it was the usual Sarries control and know we won't find a new Brad in a hurry, but we have got to find a better way with 1 captain until Faz or Jamie back.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 15:52

Does McCall need to reinforce the message. Should he have subbed Billy after the second 10M? We had Christie on the bench and Earl on the field. Ofc we'd miss Billy but the message isn't getting through to some players and being sorry after a loss doesn't help. I guess the flip side is you allow the player to make amends for the slip in discipline?

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: TonyTaff (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 16:49

Apparently, two unnamed players have apologised. I hope that it leads to a change in behaviour by the time the Prem resumes.

It's a long time since Sports network paid anything!

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: Innings (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 17:33

Is any player worth enough to be selected when he has directly contributed to more than 20% of results going astray because of his ill-discipline?

Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 17:46

The management would seem to think so Innings and tbf that player has been fantastic for us for much of the start of this season. Who knows if we would have improved on our current position if we had been missing them for other games? There's no need for this to become a witch-hunt. We have a discipline problem it needs to be addressed. The shame is that what is getting lost is some exceptional performances from Maro, Koch, Isiekwe and others in the same game.

Too much doom and gloom is bad for us!

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: derbyshire fan (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 20:50

The issue of petulance and backchat is a real one - the players concerned have all learned, like all of us that have played the game, from age 11 if not earlier that you call sir ‘sir’, and that you don’t argue or back chat sir. I learned that the hard way, my son’s school team were awarded a penalty close to their own goal line - and the oppo were marched back 6 or 7 lots of ten meters - to become a kick able penalty. Sarries have to deal with this - whether by benching a player; the other players fining them, or whatever, I don’t know. But it needs to be fixed - now

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: Innings (IP Logged)
Date: 05/12/2021 23:56

Quote:
TonyTaff
Apparently, two unnamed players have apologised.

Quite right, if correct. A more public statement in like vein, delivered to the supporters, wouldn't go amiss.

Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: warwick5763 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/12/2021 10:29

It was a terrible match to watch and glad I didnt spend the time or the money going to sandy Park .
The constant kicking is now wearing me down and can someone please make it stop.. Agree the two captains is not working, its as if they havent got full confidence in one or the other so they divide it. Cant wait for Owen to come back.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 06/12/2021 10:35

Maybe it's just me but I didn't think it was terrible at all. I thought it was a tough game that with a bit more ambition in playing or a bit better discipline we perhaps could have won which given both teams were of pretty much equal strength and it was away is decent.
I think CC is a good idea in theory with a Captain for the back and for the forwards but it didn't really seem to work on the weekend. I really rate Farrell as a player but the idea of him talking to the referee in a game like that where discipline was an issue doesn't fill me full of confidence. He's an incredible leader and standard setter but that isn't the same as being a great captain on field.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: Innings (IP Logged)
Date: 06/12/2021 11:31

The Telegraph Monday commentary by Brian Moore is wholly about Sarries ill-discipline exemplifying the input that leads to the outcome of losing referees throughout the game. This band-waggon. pushed by the RFU, has already achieved momentum, and Sarries are right in its path. We can expect the kitchen sink for the next Sarries player to backchat. MMc might be wise to ban all players, except the captain, from speaking a single word to the referee. Actually not a bad idea for all clubs to clamp down on the increasing attempts by players, water carriers and coaches to influence decisions.

Innings

Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: maynas (IP Logged)
Date: 07/12/2021 19:17

Echo many of the above comments, this is a really bad look after we hoped to n=move the world on from viewing us a cheats. Instead we are now vied, possibly rightly, as petulant. As described above the match outcomes are awful, we seriously need to stop this and behave. Drop and fine Billy and Mako if they do it again and have 1 single captain, 2 is crazy

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: jonnybrowne (IP Logged)
Date: 09/12/2021 19:08

Quote:
Crazytown
I don't think this 2 captains idea is working. Think we need 1 strong captain to make sure the senior players control the back chat, work with the ref and make the right decisions at those key moments. Should have been a penalty kick for a line out at 18:12 with 10 minutes to go. Didn't think it was the usual Sarries control and know we won't find a new Brad in a hurry, but we have got to find a better way with 1 captain until Faz or Jamie back.

I agree, and am not entirely sure why we’ve starting doing it. Despite Jackson being an all-round top bloke and doing a good job in the round of media interviews before the Pirates game which seems an eternity ago he hasn’t proved to be be the leader I thought he would, and he and Luke Pearce will clearly not be exchanging Christmas cards again this year. Goodey I’ve never seen as a captain for some reason.

But who could do it? Faz can lead from the front but annoys refs, Maro successfully led England U20s and the Storm a and has enormous presence and gravitas, and Jamie would surely be able to charm refs in the same manner as Sam Warburton.

Re: Sarries backchat costs another game
Posted by: Nosher1979 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/12/2021 09:56

I listened with interest to the point made quite eloquently on the Egg Chaser podcast last week.
JB stated that the crowing over the ref walking people back 10 was not necessarily a good thing as we don’t know what Billy said to the ref or why.
JB posited that Billy (& Mako, the 2nd pinged player ) are both seasoned internationals and aware of the game. He would like to have heard what Billy said and why he keep repeating it, he’s not a daft wee laddie.
I get that he should’ve shut up after the first 10m but it would be interesting to hear what he said, even if to just say ‘ ah well, he deserved that’.

Just another side to the debate, worth listening to the full podcast to hear this segment.

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net