GLOUCESTER PREVIEW - PLEASE POST MATCH RELATED COMMENT HERE

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The Bard
Don’t forget we went to Glos last season on a Friday night after they’d humiliated Bath at home the week before and we took them apart.
But that sadly was the exception rather than the rule down there.

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OldMarovian
As you say tpr's but the players will just have to do everything they can to make sure the refereeing team don't get to make those decisions. Discipline was brilliant in the last game. A continuation of that would be another huge plus.

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Nosher1979
Watching the game on BT sport and my word the Gloucester fans are truly horrible! After the Thorley try I saw an old man giving the v sign to the Sarries fans and the lip read vitriol was truly horrid.
Not a nice place to go.

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Ajax Treesdown

He represents every club fan in my bedroom.

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myleftboot

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Ajax Treesdown

He represents every club fan in my bedroom.

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Ajax Treesdown
Janie George sprinting towards the referee at halftime was gold.
You lot really think you’re above everyone don’t you.

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maynas
Jamie needs to calm down, stupid play at the end of the half cost us an easy 3 points possibly more

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Ajax Treesdown

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myleftboot

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Ajax Treesdown

He represents every club fan in my bedroom.

You are the most hated club in world rugby for a reason.

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Ajax Treesdown
Janie George sprinting towards the referee at halftime was gold.
You lot really think you’re above everyone don’t you.

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Banzai1314
Never mentioned defending the red card did I ?

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Banzai1314
I think George Skivington is a top bloke - talks sense and has turned things around at Glaws.

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OldMarovian

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Banzai1314
I think George Skivington is a top bloke - talks sense and has turned things around at Glaws.

Yup. He must be fuming but he was diplomatic and measured. I might question his notion that Glaws aren't a team who play on the edge of the Laws though.

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Bram1ey_Road
Poor from BT sport, trying to create controversy without knowing the laws. Still a win is a win…

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JimG
Excellent win against a committed Gloucester side. I thought our pack were excellent producing a lot of quick ball despite Ludlow in particular being a complete nuisance. Overall we deserved that and would have won comfortably if Farrell could have kicked his goals but clearly a tough night for kicking which makes the fact he managed a 45 yard drop goal even more remarkable. Terrible night for MacGuigan though fortunately for us. Terrible night also for the Gloucester crowd who seems to have a rather different ethos to the rest of the rugby community.
Banana skin avoided and first double of the season accomplished!

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The Bard
It looked like contact to the upper chest so more a yellow.

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ComeOnSarries
I now want to know what is the guidance for how long a referee can go back for suspected foul play?

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JimG
Honestly who cares. He dipped, there was a wrap and not much force. I doubt there will be a citing.

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JimG
Honestly who cares. He dipped, there was a wrap and not much force. I doubt there will be a citing.

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Barty II
Come on. Even as the staunchest Saracens fan I can see that we've absolutely got away with one. Under the current rules, that's a clear red.
Some of us need a bit of humility, nothing wrong with holding our hands up and admitting we've got lucky on this occasion.

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Barty II
Come on. Even as the staunchest Saracens fan I can see that we've absolutely got away with one. Under the current rules, that's a clear red.
Some of us need a bit of humility, nothing wrong with holding our hands up and admitting we've got lucky on this occasion.

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Roger G
The OF incident looked bad and I'm sure he will be cited and banned for a bit. However, whether there was any legitimate mitigation (e.g. the tackled player was already very low), or whether the current guidance to refs would allow it to be reviewed on field if it had happened that many phases earlier is a mystery to me. I'm amazed that so many people, whose SN names are new to me, know the laws and guidance so much better than a professional ref, however bad he was.

Re KD he was, IMHO, awful as usual and missed offsides, hands in the ruck and on the ground, neck rolls, clear knock-ons and much more, but not noticeably in either teams favour (ignoring Dayglo's opinion of course). And as I have said before, and a couple of others have noted, what goes around comes around - Dickson missing Faz's foul play balances us losing Ben Earl for 60 minutes, incorrectly, a couple of weeks back. If both decisions had been handled differently we'd probably have won that game and lost this one, and so be in the same position league points wise.

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Barty II
If Alec Clarey was given 3 weeks for his hit, then suspect Owen's will have the same. Although citings and consistency are not two things that usually go hand in hand.

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Glevumyap
That was a really engaging, titanic struggle and both sides deserve credit.
Sarries won because they were able to disrupt our line out to the point where it stopped being an attacking threat and became more a liability.

Had OF’s goal kicking been more accurate you lot would have likely been a score plus ahead as we went into the last few minutes anyway.

The booing of the kicker is really unpleasant and I wish we’d cut it out, the aghast reaction when a handful of Sarries fans returned the compliment later in the game was almost pantomime-like IMO.

Proud of my team’s effort in the light of our current casualty list, maybe we’ll get a second bite at you lot in the play-offs.

Cheers

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JimG
No you accused me of having a lack of humility for having the temerity to disagree with you.

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Roger G
Finally, re the TMO, much as I have little confidence in Clare Hodnett based on her past performance in Sarries matches, I seem to remember Luke Pearce in his FezCast interview categorically saying that the TMO doesn't have the commentary or the broadcast TV feed. Have I mis-remembered?

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Barty II

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Roger G
Finally, re the TMO, much as I have little confidence in Clare Hodnett based on her past performance in Sarries matches, I seem to remember Luke Pearce in his FezCast interview categorically saying that the TMO doesn't have the commentary or the broadcast TV feed. Have I mis-remembered?

I think you've got it mostly right because I remember listening to Mr Pearce's comments myself, however as much as I'd like to claim we've had a top-level referee on the FezCast, it definitely hasn't happened yet, so that part at least you're mis-remembering!

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Roger G

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Barty II

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Roger G
Finally, re the TMO, much as I have little confidence in Clare Hodnett based on her past performance in Sarries matches, I seem to remember Luke Pearce in his FezCast interview categorically saying that the TMO doesn't have the commentary or the broadcast TV feed. Have I mis-remembered?

I think you've got it mostly right because I remember listening to Mr Pearce's comments myself, however as much as I'd like to claim we've had a top-level referee on the FezCast, it definitely hasn't happened yet, so that part at least you're mis-remembering!

Oops. It must've been Big Jim's podcast then. They're the only ones I listen to.

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Barty II
Hard to know what to make of that, I'd consider it a compliment to be confused with Jim. Less so the other bloke...

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Sarriebone

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Barty II
Hard to know what to make of that, I'd consider it a compliment to be confused with Jim. Less so the other bloke...

The Big Jim stuff is separate from his double act work. His interview with Pearce was excellent.

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Harrow Sarrie
On the subject of Dickson getting his laws wrong, I wondered if he was guilty of poor communication - was it the same phase of play versus was it the same passage of play, the latter typically confaining multiple phases. Certainly seemed to throw Hodnet.

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wolfgangvonb77
I Used to really enjoy listening to the rugbypod and big Jim but then he seems to change his opinion more times then the British weather lol.

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Gr@y_Lensman

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JimG
Honestly who cares. He dipped, there was a wrap and not much force. I doubt there will be a citing.

You have access to accelerometer data that shows how much force? A slight dip but time to dip more. Wrap was irrelevant because there was head contact. If it isn't cited it should be.

Oh, and plenty of people care, because we are trying to stop head injuries.

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Pickett
It was a straight shoulder to the chin. The tackled player ducked slightly but Farrell had opportunity to bend lower. No mitigation; Red card.

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MidlandsSarrie
I’d like to see another angle.

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OTsarrie
Slightly embarrassing then to see Luke Pearce as a fan at the Exeter game …

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myleftboot

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MidlandsSarrie
I’d like to see another angle.

can we have an angle of Dixon, in a Quins shirt, telling us how much he HATES Saracens?!! Or Dixon, stood next to his old mate Marler not hearing him clearly call someone's mum a prostitute? That is the principal problem. All for players turning ref, but this one just isn't it

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Roger G

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OTsarrie
Slightly embarrassing then to see Luke Pearce as a fan at the Exeter game …

Can you be sure he can be described as "a fan"? Attendee yes but fan? He's strongly associated with an amateur club down that way.

As he lives in the area surely he's allowed to go to watch a match at his local Prem club? IMHO Pearce is the best English ref at the moment (better than Barnes even) and to suggest he has any bias towards Exeter is unfounded.

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Noir
... the counter argument is that it is perfectly legitimate to target the ball in the tackle.

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Noir
So, immediately before contact the banner sits just above Jack Clement’s eyebrows, but at the point of contact his whole forehead is exposed – the banner sits just past the hair line, evidencing a material drop in height.
Again, using the banner, you can see that Owen’s height does not change and marginally decreases at the point of contact.

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Barty II
One thing that's not going for Farrell is that Clement has picked the ball out from a ruck rather than being upright when he receives the ball. At no point has Clement actually lowered his height, if anything he's rising

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Noir
Yes, I take the ‘why take the risk’ point OM. Risk versus reward is an ever present element of competitive sport of course and a real skill to get right - witness Owen’s drop goal to win the game.
TK I hear what you say, but there is a dip and without it (for me) there is no contact with the chin and so the dip is material in the context of its inclusion in any assessment of whether a sanction is warranted. For the avoidance of doubt, I make no argument whether or not there should be a sanction!

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Sarriebone
Tuilagi has just taken Tommy Allen's head off, by flying into a tackle with no arms. He was low and Allen was falling. But as we know tucked arm means no mitigation, right? Apparently not for WB, not even a penalty given...

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neiljk
Allan catches a high ball and then falls arriving at Tuilagi much faster and with a very sudden and significant change in height. Tuilagi was expecting him to land so he could tackle him. There’s no foul play there, it’s simply a collision caused by Allan falling unexpectedly.

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neiljk
The Danny Care deliberate knock on should have been yellow, try or no try. He’s a lucky boy.

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OldMarovian
I thought the "rugby incident" call re bumping Marchant was more dubious if less serious. No attempt by the Sale player to get the ball but makes a point of bumping the jumping Marchant who then makes contact awkwardly with the Sale player trying to get the ball. If the first Sale player had been competing, fair enough, as it was a very kickable penalty to Quins? Not that it would have made much difference.

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Carlyle
I’m sure the citing officer will have a better opinion than all of us and will call accordingly. Just lack of consistency by officials and certain commentators and their pet clubs. They should be transparent which clubs they played for or support in each programme?

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paulglynn
When does your the 48 hour clock for the citing start is it kick of or the end of the game?

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JimG
Really disappointed by the Farrell citing. Trial by social media. Very much hope the panel can view dispassionately as I really don't think it deserves a ban.

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JimG
Wow - just seen the Tuilagi one. He practically takes Allan's head off. If the game is worried about head injuries that is the kind of incident that should be looked at. Lined him up from 20 yards with the express intention of causing maximum physical damage. The kind of collisions that were great in the old days - when it was a 14 stone Josh Lucy on Matt Rogers - but not so much when it is a 17.5 stone Tuilagi at top speed
. The circumstances of the dropped catch and trip by O'Flaherty are all unfortunate from Allan's perspective but Tuilagi is recklessly out of control. It is in my view a different order entirely from Farrell's which looks positively tame by comparison. Hope Allan is ok.

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neiljk

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JimG
Wow - just seen the Tuilagi one. He practically takes Allan's head off. If the game is worried about head injuries that is the kind of incident that should be looked at. Lined him up from 20 yards with the express intention of causing maximum physical damage. The kind of collisions that were great in the old days - when it was a 14 stone Josh Lucy on Matt Rogers - but not so much when it is a 17.5 stone Tuilagi at top speed
. The circumstances of the dropped catch and trip by O'Flaherty are all unfortunate from Allan's perspective but Tuilagi is recklessly out of control. It is in my view a different order entirely from Farrell's which looks positively tame by comparison. Hope Allan is ok.

I think you need to use both eyes.

Allan was tripped and fell into Tuilagi’s path. For sure he was trying to tackle him hard when he landed but he literally fell over into his path.

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JimG

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neiljk

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JimG
Wow - just seen the Tuilagi one. He practically takes Allan's head off. If the game is worried about head injuries that is the kind of incident that should be looked at. Lined him up from 20 yards with the express intention of causing maximum physical damage. The kind of collisions that were great in the old days - when it was a 14 stone Josh Lucy on Matt Rogers - but not so much when it is a 17.5 stone Tuilagi at top speed
. The circumstances of the dropped catch and trip by O'Flaherty are all unfortunate from Allan's perspective but Tuilagi is recklessly out of control. It is in my view a different order entirely from Farrell's which looks positively tame by
comparison. Hope Allan is ok.

I think you need to use both eyes.

Allan was tripped and fell into Tuilagi’s path. For sure he was trying to tackle him hard when he landed but he literally fell over into his path.

What do you mean about using both eyes? I can see perfectly well what happened thanks. And I am neither a Sale nor a Quins fan so it doesn't matter to me from that perspective. All I am saying is that Tuilagi was out of control. Allen may have fallen over in his direction but the fact he was flying in with his shoulder meant that when the lowering happened he couldn't adjust. I am not calling for any citings or reds - my point was simply that this is the kind of action that could lead to serious harm whereas Farrell was clearly targeting the ball and got it marginally wrong and I hope the citing panel will be able to find sufficient mitigation. Not remotely bothered about 6N but would really like to see him in the next 2 European fixtures.

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Roderick Flashheart

Dallaglio (2hr 31 mins into the BT Sport feed) - "That man won it - but should he have even been on the pitch? It's not for us to discuss now" - Then proceeds to bleat on about it until the end of the show!

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Duncan96

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Roderick Flashheart

Dallaglio (2hr 31 mins into the BT Sport feed) - "That man won it - but should he have even been on the pitch? It's not for us to discuss now" - Then proceeds to bleat on about it until the end of the show!

Strange comment that wasn’t it. Typically mouth engaged without brain in gear. It was entirely his and his colleagues job to discuss all aspects of “the Farrell Affair”. If the TV commentators are not to discuss that what are they to discuss? His haircut?

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TOKS

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Duncan96

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Roderick Flashheart

Dallaglio (2hr 31 mins into the BT Sport feed) - "That man won it - but should he have even been on the pitch? It's not for us to discuss now" - Then proceeds to bleat on about it until the end of the show!

Strange comment that wasn’t it. Typically mouth engaged without brain in gear. It was entirely his and his colleagues job to discuss all aspects of “the Farrell Affair”. If the TV commentators are not to discuss that what are they to discuss? His haircut?

The match itself? The other 29 players?

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neiljk

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JimG

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neiljk

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JimG
Wow - just seen the Tuilagi one. He practically takes Allan's head off. If the game is worried about head injuries that is the kind of incident that should be looked at. Lined him up from 20 yards with the express intention of causing maximum physical damage. The kind of collisions that were great in the old days - when it was a 14 stone Josh Lucy on Matt Rogers - but not so much when it is a 17.5 stone Tuilagi at top speed
. The circumstances of the dropped catch and trip by O'Flaherty are all unfortunate from Allan's perspective but Tuilagi is recklessly out of control. It is in my view a different order entirely from Farrell's which looks positively tame by
comparison. Hope Allan is ok.

I think you need to use both eyes.

Allan was tripped and fell into Tuilagi’s path. For sure he was trying to tackle him hard when he landed but he literally fell over into his path.

What do you mean about using both eyes? I can see perfectly well what happened thanks. And I am neither a Sale nor a Quins fan so it doesn't matter to me from that perspective. All I am saying is that Tuilagi was out of control. Allen may have fallen over in his direction but the fact he was flying in with his shoulder meant that when the lowering happened he couldn't adjust. I am not calling for any citings or reds - my point was simply that this is the kind of action that could lead to serious harm whereas Farrell was clearly targeting the ball and got it marginally wrong and I hope the citing panel will be able to find sufficient mitigation. Not remotely bothered about 6N but would really like to see him in the next 2 European fixtures.

Look at the incident carefully. Tuilagi does not come flying in out of control. He comes in looking to time a tackle but Allen gets trip and falls right into him. There’s a huge split second change in height and the point Allen lands.

Under the current rules the first question is whether there is foul play and there for me, there clearly isn’t. It’s entirely accidental and no real way you could expect Tuilagi to have somehow anticipated the trip.

The outcome is clearly worse than the Farrell tackle, however it was much more avoidable. Farrell looked to hit high on a dominant tackle and misjudged it. It’s not high end by any means but under the current criteria it’s a red.

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Happy Sarrie

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neiljk

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JimG

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neiljk

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JimG
Wow - just seen the Tuilagi one. He practically takes Allan's head off. If the game is worried about head injuries that is the kind of incident that should be looked at. Lined him up from 20 yards with the express intention of causing maximum physical damage. The kind of collisions that were great in the old days - when it was a 14 stone Josh Lucy on Matt Rogers - but not so much when it is a 17.5 stone Tuilagi at top speed
. The circumstances of the dropped catch and trip by O'Flaherty are all unfortunate from Allan's perspective but Tuilagi is recklessly out of control. It is in my view a different order entirely from Farrell's which looks positively tame by
comparison. Hope Allan is ok.

I think you need to use both eyes.

Allan was tripped and fell into Tuilagi’s path. For sure he was trying to tackle him hard when he landed but he literally fell over into his path.

What do you mean about using both eyes? I can see perfectly well what happened thanks. And I am neither a Sale nor a Quins fan so it doesn't matter to me from that perspective. All I am saying is that Tuilagi was out of control. Allen may have fallen over in his direction but the fact he was flying in with his shoulder meant that when the lowering happened he couldn't adjust. I am not calling for any citings or reds - my point was simply that this is the kind of action that could lead to serious harm whereas Farrell was clearly targeting the ball and got it marginally wrong and I hope the citing panel will be able to find sufficient mitigation. Not remotely bothered about 6N but would really like to see him in the next 2 European fixtures.

Look at the incident carefully. Tuilagi does not come flying in out of control. He comes in looking to time a tackle but Allen gets trip and falls right into him. There’s a huge split second change in height and the point Allen lands.

Under the current rules the first question is whether there is foul play and there for me, there clearly isn’t. It’s entirely accidental and no real way you could expect Tuilagi to have somehow anticipated the trip.

The outcome is clearly worse than the Farrell tackle, however it was much more avoidable. Farrell looked to hit high on a dominant tackle and misjudged it. It’s not high end by any means but under the current criteria it’s a red.

I'm enjoying this more than the average episode of Silent Witness

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TonyTaff
The Martin Johnson approach should be applied.
His 3 week ban will expire 8 days before England's first match, enabling Faz to play a full part in training.. In Europe, Sarries will just have to make do with Goode, Malins, Daly and Lozowski covering 10 and 15. 😆

Oi Faz, don't touch the biscuits, it might be deemed disrespectful 😂

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AP
The decision acknowledges that the "meaningful matches" for the purpose of the suspension cannot include the 6N fixtures and therefore identifies the two European and premiership fixtures as the ones to be missed.
There is then this standard wording:

"Should those games be cancelled or rearranged, or should there be a change of circumstances, then it will be the responsibility of the parties to consider the position and to ensure that the sanction imposed by this Panel remains meaningful. If necessary, the Player’s free to play date will be amended to ensure the sanction remains meaningful. That responsibility was made clear to the Parties during the hearing."

No longer being available for selection for the Bristol game looks like "a change of circumstances" to me, which would require the return to play date to be changed.

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Roger G

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wolfgangvonb77
I Used to really enjoy listening to the rugbypod and big Jim but then he seems to change his opinion more times then the British weather lol.

Can't stand the rugbypod - too many digressions into the size and shape of various players' genitals and the like. Big Jim's one-on-one interviews, on the other hand, are usually very informative and nothing to do with Jim's own opinions.