LYON PREVIEW - Please add all match related comments here
UK Sports Pics Ltd/Alamy
By The Saracens
January 12 2023
So we move from Friday night lights to Saturday night lights as the Premiership takes a back seat for a couple of weeks and we turn our minds back to the Heineken Cup. Just to reiterate (it was a while ago) the qualification rules in this year’s competition are fairly lax – the top 8 teams from 2 leagues of 12 go through to the knock out stage. (In other words it’s easier to qualify than not to qualify – something that seems rather ludicrous for a competition which wants to be seen as the best in the world).
Sarries are in 3rd in pool A, behind Leinster and Exeter, with 9 points from 2 games. The team in 9th place (Bordeaux Begles) have 2 points from 2 games which means although not mathematically certain, Sarries have probably done enough already and any win against Lyon would secure qualification. But it’s not quite that simple – top 4 secures a home tie in the last 16 and you end up playing the team from pool B in the correspondingly lower position (1 v 8, 2 v 7 etc). Right now we’d be taking on Munster at home but there’s a lot more water to flow under the bridge before then. The complexities of this tournament also mean that each team plays different teams to the others in their “mini pool” so while Sarries play Lyon and Edinburgh, Edinburgh play Sarries and Castres and Lyon play Sarries and Vodacom Bulls! What that means is that wins matter whoever you’re playing!
Our visitors on Saturday are Lyon. Lyon have 2 points from their 1st 2 games. Qualification for them is possible still but how much will they want it (given what we know about French teams and away games). It will be interesting to see what sort of team they bring to a breezy (but hopefully dry – please!) StoneX on Saturday night. Sarries undoubtedly do want it and a 5 pointer would go a long way to securing a home tie in the round of 16.
Trial by BT Sport means Sarries will be without their captain and talisman Owen Farrell (given the way he was holding his ribs at the end of the Glos game I’m not sure he would have been fit anyway!) but although any team will miss a player of Owen’s calibre, Sarries are used to coping without him and have a tried and tested formula for these occasions which (I assume) will be in place this weekend: Goodey to 10, Daly to 15, Tompkins back to centre – providing the last 2 are now fit to play. Sure they will miss Owen’s determination on the pitch, sometimes he seems to power the team on his own, but this will be a different and slightly nuanced Sarries. Goodey is a very different (but no less effective) 10 and Daly has been outstanding at fullback this season.
The forward pack is for me even more important. Things haven’t always gone smoothly in the set piece or in the loose so the tight 5 need to make their mark early on: and we need to secure our line-out! I would like to see Mako Jamie and Riccioni scrum down with Maro and Nick at lock and Christie, Earl and Billy behind them. Van Zyl is the form 9 at the moment (although a bit tough on Aled who hasn’t had a lot of game time, but given the circumstances I’d stick with Van Zyl. The other question is does Segun get a start? I’d stick with Max on 1 wing but maybe Roti on the other?
Lyon have had something of a mixed time recently losing away to Toulon and home to Brive over the Christmas period before beating Pau away. Lyon are currently in 8th place in the top 14 having won 8 of their 15 games. They are, however, only 4 points behind Bordeaux in 4th so all to play for at home. Should Lyon come fully loaded they will provide a big challenge with the likes of Demba Bamba, Felix Lambey, Dylan Cretin, Jean-Marc Doussain, Joshua Tuisova (though sadly not Maxime Gouzou who suffered a ruptured ACL last week or Baptiste Couilloud who is out with whiplash). Joel Kpoku, who sparked some controversy with his comments around his time at Sarries before the game at the Matmut, may also feature.
Sarries are promising a light show before the game begins on Saturday. Our refereeing team are Italian: Andrea Piardi has the whistle assisted by Alex Frasson and Manuel Bottino with TMO Matteo Liperini. I know very little about Signor Piardi. Google tells us he incurred the wrath of Scarlets supporters when he downgraded a red to a yellow on the advice of TMO Brian McNeice in their game against Ulster. He was also in charge of the disastrous England Baabaas match last summer (hardly his fault). On that occasion Will Skelton received a red card, again on the advice of the TMO. So if nothing else it sounds like he listens to the man in the van which is ore than you can say for some referees we have come across recently!
I think Sarries will win and I expect them to get the full 5 which would take the pressure off a potentially tricky visit across the border next Sunday. But one thing about being a Saracens supporter – nothing is a given.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:24:11:42:42 by Darraghgirl.
Let's hope Lyon decide to save their firepower for their domestic league!
Saracens Men team to play Lyon:
1 Mako Vunipola
2 Jamie George (c)
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Andy Christie
7 Ben Earl
8 Billy Vunipola
9 Ivan Van Zyl
10 Alex Goode
11 Sean Maitland
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Max Malins
15 Elliot Daly
Replacements:
16 Tom Woolstencroft
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Christian Judge
19 Nick Isiekwe
20 Theo Dan
21 Aled Davies
22 Manu Vunipola
23 Alex Lewington
You can take the man out of Yorkshire but you can't take Yorkshire out of the man.
looks like a stronger lineup then last time with my limited knowledge, notably Cretin and Tuisova.Quote:+1TommyKentish
Also love to see Jamie as captain
Also agree with MT that it's great to see Woolstencroft return. Shame not to see Segun as TK says and hope that's just selection rather than he's picked up a niggle. As mentioned above Dan at backrow cover suggests things are pretty thing there and presumably at lock too? Tizard needs a big game to justify starting over Isiekwe IMO. Bello out injured again?
All-in-all it feels a good squad but there are obviously quite a lot of injuries (as for all teams) being managed in the back-ground. I'm not familiar with the Lyon side so have no idea of their strength but looking forward to a good game and it certainly doesn't look like they've waved the flag as so many other sides have in the ERCC already.
Despite a couple of defensive lapses, a very good performance from Sarries. 3 tries for Elliot Daly highly impressive.
~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~
MotM one from Christie or Earl, both exceptional all game. Incredible how both Christie and Tompkins (neither the biggest in their respective positions) get across the gain line time after time. Really good game from Tizard too.
Very composed by Goode at 10. Ivan Van Zyl is so important to Sarries playing at their best. Hard to judge Davies performance as it looked like the instruction of how to play changed when he came on. Some great link and keeping ball alive from Malins and Maitland but a couple of costly mistakes too. Riccioni looking like the player he was before the injury.
Dalys tries and 50/22 magnificent. The third try finish absolutely top draw.
Not at all knocking our wings but can't wait to see what Segun and Harris can bring to the party.
Hope Maro is ok.
As a side note I thought the referee was really good. To me a couple of their tries probably have been ruled out but it was stuff he simply missed and was picked up later so fair enough.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:14:22:29:19 by OldMarovian.
Did I imagine it, or did the ref have his arm up for advantage for a late tackle on Malins before Lyon scored their first try, then promptly forget about it?
Quote:the commentators suggested it was too many phases awayNickL
Good first half, second a bit flat. Daly will have done his chances of an England recall some good with the new coach watching.
Did I imagine it, or did the ref have his arm up for advantage for a late tackle on Malins before Lyon scored their first try, then promptly forget about it?
Quote:The Bard
That wouldn’t make sense as they had the ball! A vey strange game. Both sides defence woeful at times. It was clear last night we need more pace on the wings if Elliot isn’t there, I don’t know if the Radwan rumours are still alive but you could see last night he’d be very useful.
That's an interesting point of view. I thought Malins had another great game. He's not on the same planet as Eliot Daly this season, of course, but we'll miss him. Unless ....... lets give Roti a run. Now he has pace!
I had to watch the TV recording as soon as I got home and the first half really was as good as it seemed at the time. Strange that the professionals are calling for Daly to play at 13 for England when he's such a great full back. They must have been listening to Nick Tomkins!
No idea if Parton is quick or not?
There are two different incidents being conflated above I think. Their first try came after Malins tried a chip over the top. He was held back by their player but the ref checked it and I believe the TMO said it was part of the tackle, debatable but at least he asked. The second was Tompkins blocked off the ball to make the hole for their line break. Very clear (in replay) and should have been called back but not spotted in time. The third! IMO was Kpoku knocking on at the base of the ruck before their third, a few Sarries players called it but the referee said backwards.
So two of the three he has ruled on (whether right or wrong) and one, probably the clearest one, was just missed. I still thought he was good overall and Lyon probably felt there was some blocking by Maitland for Dalys first. I still thought he generally had a good game.
(edit) The Womens team seem to have come unstuck at SP. Anyone watch the game? Looks like most of the Internationals are back so that's a bit of a worrying result despite how good Chiefs Women are under Susie.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:15:08:54:53 by OldMarovian.
A couple of questions:
1 He must have had a cold head. Has there ever been a ref who wore a hat?
2 Are refs like policemen? I.e. they get younger as you get older?
Quote:saracen1950
Timing and transport links make these fixtures impossible for many of us.
Indeed. Do we have any news on attendance?
Quote:OldMarovian
Well done to the team. Cracking first half then a bit of a mess. If this side can really click for even 60 of 80 they will put a really good team to the sword.
MotM one from Christie or Earl, both exceptional all game. Incredible how both Christie and Tompkins (neither the biggest in their respective positions) get across the gain line time after time. Really good game from Tizard too.
Very composed by Goode at 10. Ivan Van Zyl is so important to Sarries playing at their best. Hard to judge Davies performance as it looked like the instruction of how to play changed when he came on. Some great link and keeping ball alive from Malins and Maitland but a couple of costly mistakes too. Riccioni looking like the player he was before the injury.
Dalys tries and 50/22 magnificent. The third try finish absolutely top draw.
Not at all knocking our wings but can't wait to see what Segun and Harris can bring to the party.
Hope Maro is ok.
As a side note I thought the referee was really good. To me a couple of their tries probably have been ruled out but it was stuff he simply missed and was picked up later so fair enough.
Very good summation. I’m almost glad we’re not putting together a full 60/80 yet (apart from the Tigers match) because it means we still have room to grow this season.
First half I’m trying to figure out if we were magnificent or Lyon were just disinterested. I’ve not seen a team that lacklustre at the StoneX for a very long time, barely looked like they cared in the first half at points.
Best we’ve seen from Tizard, really carried well and I think his heft in the scrum is really key. The scrum was a bit of an issue after he went off but that could also be to do with Bamba and Taofifenua coming off the bench for Lyon!
Riccioni is up there for players of the season for me, very good scrum and unbelievable work rate around the park.
Davies looks like a guy who needs a confidence boost, he played really well for most of last season and should suit coming off the bench with our new jouer jouer. It was tough yesterday, he came on at a point when we clearly had decided the match was done at half time and were playing too passively all over the park.
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Quote:the one called on Isiekwe seemed pretty clear, he looked, then shifted in front of MaroAP
It seemed pretty clear that the lifter had got in front of the jumper on both occasions. At least one of them was agreed with by Ben Kay / Topsy Ojo.
We did somewhat drift in the second half and our scrum began to creak a little but still overall a very good evenings work by the team. As others have said I also thought that was Tizard’s best game for Sarries and Riccioni put in an excellent shift in both tight and loose.
We are sitting pretty and if we get any form of win we will definitely have a home tie in the first round of the knock out competition.
I guess they've qualified already with that win over Castres away so (edit) Sarries playing for a home draw in the knock-outs but Edinburgh will want a strong performance at home.
Agree about the first half TK. I find it hard to work out how much it was that Sarries were on it and how much Lyon took a while to wake up. I think most teams will struggle when a team plays at the speed as Sarries did in the first half.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023:01:15:15:06:20 by OldMarovian.
One question - why did the first half go on so long? There was a scrum to Lyon well after the bell went but they allowed it to happen, shouldn’t the half have ended there?
Quote:maynas
Indeed the speed and the crispness and subtlety of passing in that first half was wonderful to watch, best I’ve seen them play yet just a shame the intensity wasn’t there is the 2nd half Sarries really let Lyon back in with a chance at only 2 scores down, I only breathed easily when the yellow card came.
One question - why did the first half go on so long? There was a scrum to Lyon well after the bell went but they allowed it to happen, shouldn’t the half have ended there?
Agreed Maynas. The scrum was awarded before the time was up but then there was a free kick to Lyon. I thought only penalties continued the game? Assume I must be wrong
"A half ends when the ball becomes dead after time has expired unless:...............
................The referee awards a free-kick or penalty."
You learn something new every day!
Quote:Nosher1979
I found both of Sonia McLoughlins interviews ( Mark MCCall before kick off and Elliot’s post match ) bad. She seems flustered and ill informed. England teams announced tomorrow according to her! Asking Mark how difficult his week has been and giggling was odd!
100% agree. Her interveiw style with Rees-Zammit "arent you a big boy then" and the classic "My name is not David Popcock, Its Michael Hooper". Careless sloppy pale and stale. She on 6 figures so go figure
Quote:Surbiton SarriesQuote:saracen1950
Timing and transport links make these fixtures impossible for many of us.
Indeed. Do we have any news on attendance?
Looked and felt about the same as many league games this season - 70 to 80%?
I'm in a priveleged position living walking distance from the ground and I can well imagine that getting home late on a saturday night by public transport is just too difficult for many.
However, although cold, I found the Stonex experience, while already brilliant compared to any other club rugby ground I've been to (La Defense Arena is possible competition although it's marmite), was seriously enhanced by beginning in the evening and being under lights. It's brighter and more atmospheric for me.
I wonder if 5 or 6pm kick offs in the winter would replicate the experience and allow people to get home?
In this case, surely the decision re kick off time would have been imposed by the broadcaster? I don't know what revenue that brings in, but with the game being televised it will understandably dissuade some from attending.
A couple of things occurred to me:
1) Were the shuttle buses operating; and
2) What time did the game finish?
The second half made it look as though one or two of the guys were ready for bed. With the sublime opening 40 fortunately no great harm was done.
Quote:Josef K
Living abroad I'm no longer able to attend, although I always enjoyed games under the lights.
In this case, surely the decision re kick off time would have been imposed by the broadcaster? I don't know what revenue that brings in, but with the game being televised it will understandably dissuade some from attending.
A couple of things occurred to me:
1) Were the shuttle buses operating; and
2) What time did the game finish?
Yes, with all games broadcast they are staggered over the weekend and timings determined by TV. Not sure how the broadcast money is split.
Shuttle buses were running. I think the club would have lost out on post match bar sales as the East Stand and Oasis were very quiet as most left the ground pretty smartish.
Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!
