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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:04:24:19:47:49 by Darraghgirl.

Well, that was an ‘interesting’ read, understandably confident from a Saracens perspective. I’m sorry that Franklins Gardens is a bit of a come down but it looks to be a full house with a crowd half as big again as capacity at your gaff !

Saints will not quite be a full strength with arguably our best hooker and tight head probably out for the rest of the season - I shall believe Courtney is back when I see it. Daft as it sounds Saints have lost only one Prem game at the Gardens this season but on other hand have lost all but one on their travels - in case you wondered, Leicester were the aberration on both counts.

Whilst I’m sure MM would like to win every game, this could come down to who he would most like to play in a home semi-final. After all it’s a one-off game and I seem to remember Saints winning a semi at Allianz Park the year before the memorable Waller final. Who would you guys prefer to face, allowing for the fact that there are several teams in the mix ?

Whatever your starting line-up, you will be welcome at The Gardens on what will hopefully be a sunny Saturday afternoon.

NGSB

I don't think this is confident, still less over-confident, but rather an honest appraisal of the need to balance injuries and fatigue with maintaining momentum . I doubt if attempting to choose the semi-final opposition has been considered.

More specifically can anyone say if the mention of Ralph Adams Hale is realistic? I've been reluctantly coming to the view that we will probably never see him again

Referee; Wayne Barnes (270th Premiership game)

Assistant referees; Tom Foley & Wayne Falla

TMO; David Rose

Citing Officer; Brian Campsall

Our away form since Lyon hasn’t been great, only the last minute drop goal win at Gloucester to show for it. Admittedly we’ve played the other 3 in the top 4, Edinburgh and La Rochelle so excusable.
This could get messy I fear

Quote:

The Bard
Our away form since Lyon hasn’t been great, only the last minute drop goal win at Gloucester to show for it. Admittedly we’ve played the other 3 in the top 4, Edinburgh and La Rochelle so excusable.
This could get messy I fear

Yes any points and a good performance will be a positive. No more injuries, especially in the back-row, is infinitely more important.

Anyone else think we should be giving Theo Dan a run in the backrow?

In my opinion, even with the English guys back, we need him in the squad as he gives us a point of difference that we don't currently have. Brilliant over the ball, strong in the tackle, and makes yards on almost every carry. I get that he is small in stature, but a run at 7 (to give Ben some time off) wouldn't be the worst shout.

We have really missed strength at the breakdown in recent weeks, so having him and woolfy in the same time gives us extra strength there.

Quote:

TOKS
[No more injuries, especially in the back-row, is infinitely more important.

That's all I want too. Anything else is a plus including having another look at Vunipola running the show and some of the young backs and pack.

IVZ triple-wrapped in bubble-wrap please. The rest of the senior players maybe a layer less!

Max just posted a picture on Instagram that was definitively not in Barnet so he won’t be playing

Quote:

Darraghgirl
Max just posted a picture on Instagram that was definitively not in Barnet so he won’t be playing

Maro's in Portugal according to his Instagram so he won't be playing either

I would bet against a W for us here if I was that way inclined but my preference for the play offs would be Saints at StoneX.

Team's up

01 Eroni Mawi
02 Tom Woolstencroft
03 Christian Judge
04 Callum Hunter-Hill
05 Hugh Tizard
06 Nick Isiekwe
07 Toby Knight
08 Jackson Wray (C)
09 Ruben de Haas
10 Manu Vunipola
11 Alex Lewington
12 Olly Hartley
13 Duncan Taylor
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Alex Goode (c)

Bench:
16 Theo Dan
17 Robin Hislop
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Nathan Michelow
20 Ben Earl
21 Ivan Van Zyl
22 Josh Hallett
23 Ben Harris





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:04:14:12:06:25 by Sarriebone.

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS

15 George Furbank
14 James Ramm
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tommy Freeman
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Sam Matavesi
3 Trevor Davison
4 David Ribbans
5 Alex Moon
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Lewis Ludlam (c)
8 Juarno Augustus

Replacements:
16 Tom Cruse
17 Ethan Waller
18 Paul Hill
19 Alex Coles
20 Lukhan Salakaia-Loto
21 Sam Graham
22 Tom James
23 Tom Collins

That’s a stronger team than I expected from us but I think our squad is so shallow it’s needed. Excited to see Toby get a start, hope he gets a chance to show what he can do ball in hand as well as the basics. Fingers crossed for no injuries, particularly in the back row.

Also Goode playing suggests Daly’s return could imminent which would be mightily handy.

Good opportunity for the young ones. Not sure I'm expecting a win.

As an aside - I had the email from the Club, but when I hit the button to connect to the website it wouldn't load. Is it my computer or their website?

Quote:

nicsue
Good opportunity for the young ones. Not sure I'm expecting a win.
As an aside - I had the email from the Club, but when I hit the button to connect to the website it wouldn't load. Is it my computer or their website?

The website, they're still having issues with the new site

Quote:

TommyKentish
Also Goode playing suggests Daly’s return could imminent which would be mightily handy.

Daly said about 4 weeks when he was being interviewed at the Osprey's match, so another couple of weeks probably.

Good luck to the team. Pretty much half way between a second and PRC XV/23 Vs Saints almost full strength XV/23.
That said that's a talented (mainly) young group. I think familiarity or lack of might be the main issue?

Big game for Vunipola. I thought he did very well in his previously outings but that was sandwiched between experience at 9 and 12. In this team he will be the more experienced in that combination.
Huge game needed from Sarries more senior players; Wray, Goode, Woolstencroft and Taylor. ALL need to lead by example and act as leaders to their "sections" in the team.

All the best however they play. Normally I have a feel for what I think the team might do.
This time I'm not sure the team selected will be able to control the game and field position and that Saints team would like nothing more than a loose game (even though we have a considerable number of our own threats there especially in the backs) so I wil be fascinated to see what the coaches decide. Maybe just go for it!!

Hopefully Riccioni, Earl or IVZ are "in case of emergency" only selections.
I guess it shows how thin things are right now in terms of injuries? How many games has Bello played this season? is it more than a couple? Losing Clarey a big blow after how well he's been playing recently too. Whatever happens this season some serious choices need to be made re our props on both LH and TH.
Great to see Segun. Knight and Hartley starting and I always enjoy seeing Mawi given that chance too.

Really good to see Lawes back although I could have lived with it being a game later! Saints set piece when they're that full is good so I'm not seeing us get much change there. Sometimes they front up in defence sometimes not but their backs defence Dingwall and Ramm aside is poor with Mitchell, Hutchinson and Furbank all being players Sarries should target. Especially Mitchell around the fringes.

A good performance and no injuries is the hope. COYSarries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:04:14:13:52:27 by OldMarovian.

Sorry if I’ve missed this already being mentioned, but a quick heads up for any of you coming by car tomorrow that there are roadworks/lane closures between M1 J15A and the stadium at the moment so allow some extra time to get here.

I'm not travelling but many thanks for the heads up higgy365

Can’t see us getting a win today but our lads won’t give in until the last whistle. Saints can’t possibly lose this …. or can they ?

What a great bonus it is from qualifying at home early to be able give Toby Knight and others valuable game time against top opposition who really need to win. I could barely watch the La Rochelle game simply because of the tension (as opposed to us not coping with the big breakdown beasts). I think I’m going to enjoy this one a lot more even if we lose.

Quote:

Banzai1314
Can’t see us getting a win today but our lads won’t give in until the last whistle. Saints can’t possibly lose this …. or can they ?

Who knows? All I would say is we've won several matches with similar squads during the AIs and 6 nations.

I must admit we do play well when our International players and regular first teamers aren’t playing.

It was going to be hard work with 15 let alone 14...

The sending off has ruined the game, with the world cup coming up I wonder how many will be sent off for tackles like duncs.

Quote:

wolfgangvonb77
The sending off has ruined the game, with the world cup coming up I wonder how many will be sent off for tackles like duncs.

Agree but it was 100% red.
As Vickers said game control is an issue. Madly overplaying in our own half. No idea what the solution is though? Kick it off and compete at the lineout in their half rather than give them clean set piece ball? Good luck to them. Great to see Segun show his class with his try.

Tbf most of the players playing very well but it is inevitably going to tell in the second half.

Compare with Genge last night coming in with a swinging arm to the head it was deemed low danger... It's just become a lottery these days

Honestly think that should be a penalty against Mitchell. He is never trying to do anything other than block, he's not looking to catch and he makes it impossible for Segun to react.

Am I the only one who saw Ludlum clash heads?

Quote:

siNBin
Am I the only one who saw Ludlum clash heads?

I think he took Marco's shoulder to the head rather than head to head

Absolutely brilliant effort against a fully loaded Saints. Sending off was the difference.

I'll take that TBP, shame about the missed conversion.....but with that team and the early Red....Yep well done.

SUPPORT Help for Heroes:
Help for Heroes

Good effort all round. Lot of heart, didn't give up.

Bit clumsy from Dunc, suspect he'll get a couple of weeks of for that.

Fantastic performance. No Saints player was MotM but Sarries had 23 of them!!

Shame Manu couldn't get the tricky kick out wide but he was excellent today. As I've said before his short kicking game is different level to our other 10 options. Congrats to Mitchelow too, good debut. Also how good did Harris look when he came on? ... and no injuries! Hurrah.

Quote:

Sarriebone
Good effort all round. Lot of heart, didn't give up.
Bit clumsy from Dunc, suspect he'll get a couple of weeks of for that.

Or was the Saints player head on head on Duncan?

Just really proud of the boys and for those doubting the future or our depth, the likes of Cal, Theo, Hallet, Harris, Hartley, Michelow, Manu showed what they can do. Bench really made a difference. Happy with 1 point and the performance.

Well done lads!!

Manu had a great game, Segun too in parts but the yellow card was so easily avoidable, Harris, Dan and Mitchelow too off the bench (except the dropped ball at 76 minutes when we were pounding the line). Sadly we never looked much like a team in contention after the 10-0 lead fell till Saints thought the match was over, but battled hard and kept our heads up well . Saints were really poor at holding onto the ball, a good team could have scored 50+ today against us.
Ben Earl as a center was fun

Easily Manu’s best game for us. Thought we were going down by 50 plus soon after half time. De Haas was decent too, good to see CHH get through the 80 ok.
The red is the kind of case that calls out for a 20 minute card and then allow a replacement.

I thought for a while that Billy (crash ball 12) and Mako (silky handling 13) would be fun but Earl and Dan ... now there's a thought

Segun was brilliant chasing all game and he was going pretty much flat out. Mitchell is blocking his running line and sightline to the Saints player and it's only once he move/is pushed that Segun gets a proper line of sight, but then it's too late to react. You could well be right but tbh I think he was a bit hard done by (red and black specs firmly on)

A couple of times in the lead up to their trys the ball clearly exposed and Pearce stops Sarries playing it which was a bit frustrating. Think both teams probably got away with a try from a forward pass too.

de Haas had a decent game too although IVZ is just something else.

Quote:

The Bard
Easily Manu’s best game for us. Thought we were going down by 50 plus soon after half time. De Haas was decent too, good to see CHH get through the 80 ok.
The red is the kind of case that calls out for a 20 minute card and then allow a replacement.

I like the idea of having two categories of red card as too many games are being spoilt by what are clearly not malicious or even truly reckless but simply clumsy poorly executed tackles.
I haven’t watched today’s game but am very proud of the lads to keep going to the end and picking up a try bonus point.

As a Saint, I, too, think far too many games are ruined by cards.

Gutsy performance by your side today - another five minutes and you would probably have won it.
We know we are flattered by our place in the table and whilst beating Sarries is always a pleasure, I think most Saints fans were unimpressed by the victory this afternoon.

A semi-final on an artificial pitch against your Full strength side is not a tempting prospect even though we have done it before. Maybe other results will save us the prospect !

Proud of the performance today, a lot of young lads showing real character. Manu had his best match even when seemingly getting injured a few times. Dan excellent off the bench as was Harris. Hunter-Hill looked really good as well, hasn’t missed a step since injured on that viewing. Toby Knight quietly had a good match in defence making 18 tackles. Earl was a difference maker again but my heart was in my mouth when they said Earl has gone down injured.

I think we need 3 points to confirm top spot and also it’d be good to get the London Irish monkey off our back next week so it’ll be interesting to see the side we put out.

Maybe NGSB. I'm not sure to what extent it was the Sarries bench adding an extra spark/Saints thinking the game was won/Saints running out of puff ... probably all of the above. I expect to see LI finish 4th and it sounds like we might play a similar team V then as today.

Good points TK. Was Knight injured? he seemed to go off early. Like you I was hiding behind the second sofa when they said Earl was down. Mawi put in a couple of legal but devastating hits today.

Two games to go to the SF and too many players that need wrapping in bubble-paper. I think we'll probably have LI at the StoneX so less woriied about beating them next week than in that game.

I didn’t notice if Knight was injured, hopefully not! I suspect it was a planned change with Earl coming on to help look for the bonus point plus no doubt Knight would be a bit knackered in one of his first prem matches.

Quote:

The Bard
The red is the kind of case that calls out for a 20 minute card and then allow a replacement.

Only reason I wouldn't go for this is that we already spend far too long griping over fine margins between penalty/yellow/red, which would only get exponentially worse if a fourth option was added into the mix.

As with every rule change there's a period of pain, eventually everyone will learn its not worth the risk of tackling upright. We are unfortunately one of the biggest culprits as a collective this season for being penalised / cited for high tackles.

Quote:

Sarriebone
Good effort all round. Lot of heart, didn't give up.
Bit clumsy from Dunc, suspect he'll get a couple of weeks of for that.

But compare it to Friday night and Genge going in hard with his arm, which is worse? Essentially accidental head clashes are being penalised the same as nasty hits, crazy, the amber card is desperately needed

Don’t think that would be the case. I’m sure Genge would have gone for 20 minutes last night if that was an option. The problem is the difference between a red and yellow in the first half is too big. The 20 minute card has logic in making punishments more even handed.

Quote:

maynas

Quote:

Sarriebone
Good effort all round. Lot of heart, didn't give up.
Bit clumsy from Dunc, suspect he'll get a couple of weeks of for that.

But compare it to Friday night and Genge going in hard with his arm, which is worse? Essentially accidental head clashes are being penalised the same as nasty hits, crazy, the amber card is desperately needed

Oh I agree, as I said further up I thought Genge should have seen red.

Rugby is a physical game and it's inevitable, even with the most diligent safety protocols, that there will the occasional accidental head on head contact. The big problem for me is that, at the moment, all or most of those contacts are deemed red as a starting point. As long as such contact is not intentional or wildly reckless then there has to be a different way to deal with it. Intentional or reckless - red all day, but.....

Well worth a second watch. I think possibly my favourite moment in a game packed with them is a despairing Saints wail or "No, noooo ..." as IVZ turned them over on Sarries try line ... beautiful

Not sure how to say it without sounding patronising but that felt a real coming of age game for Vunipola. He was excellent on both sides of the ball. A kick and a tackle aside an incredible performance. Great in holding up (with Isekwe) the Saints player too. Credit to Goode too. My feeling was in previous games that even when Vunipola played 10 Goode stepped up there so often they might as well have switched roles. Yesterday there was a great combination of letting Manu have the lead but also using having two play-makers to keep the game quick and split the field. Great stuff.

A word for Mawis defence in the first half too. Stopped Augustus? dead on the try line and a couple of great lasso tackles around the ankles of Saints players trying to get outside him and break the line. Add that to his carrying and for me he's made a case as a starter in the full XV.

I wonder if there are lessons the gun XV/23 can learn from that performance? maybe about playing without fear something that McCall has suggested inhibited the team at the tail end of last season?
Certainly something to be said for really trusting our backs more who were absolutely superb. Some of the link play between Vunipola and Hallett, Earl and Harris, etc was top class. I also think as good as our scrum-halves are not always waiting for them to resource the ruck meant Sarries played at a much higher tempo.

Excellent shift from the locks and Wray. Huge work rate. Also Lewingtons break and kick in the first half were a joy to watch. The funny thing watching again is it rarely felt like Sarries were playing a man, let alone two down. That said there were some very tired bodies out there. I hope they got to enjoy a good evening.

Anyone know what IVZ contract situation is? I think he's out of contract this season isn't he? sign him up to a long deal if we can IMO. As excellent as he is in attack his defence is a different level.

I don't suppose we will ever know what the coaches say on these occasions, but for a lot of the 23 it would be probably the last game of the season. So it was their Cup Final, their chance to show their best without risk to the league position, and with a possibility of playing themselves into a bench spot against London Irish or Bath if there is not a full "first 25" available then.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Totally agree with what’s said above about Manu V. Very much back on track as someone who we can have confidence in to share the 10 position with Owen.

The interesting question for me is the 15 position in the semi. If Eliot Daly is fit (which hopefully he is) there is no question. It’s him with Malins on the wing.

If he isn’t then my vote would be Malins at 15 and one of Roti or Ben Harris on the wing.

I wonder if we’ll see that trialled over the next two games?

And what about young Nathan M’s carry which nearly gained him a try with his second ever touch. He’ll be a big boy when he grows up!

If Daly isn’t fit then Goode starts at 15. I think it’s a bit late for Faz and Malins to form the sort of playmaking partnership that Goode/Daly have with Faz, even though I’d like to have seen it.

AP do you not think we'll see largely the same team V LI? That's what I was expecting from McCalls comments.

Daly being rushed back isn't going to be a magic bullet. We've played much better in the centres (Lozo in particular) without him as the way he joins the line late tends to marginalise them as play-makers.

Playing Malins at FB (a player who actually has a FB skillset) would be worth doing but that isn't going to happen. Disagree slightly with TK as we saw Malins link up from the wing with Farrell for England in much the same way Daly does from FB for Sarries. I think at the very minimum I'd like to see Segun on the bench in these bigger games. That said both Maitland and Lewington are playing very well but I think Sarries might benefit from a bit more pace.

For Bath then the SF I'd really like to see Mawi starting, Malins at FB, Dan and Goode on the bench. What I really hope is players who have delivered all season and stand up now in these games aren't simply bumped for returning regulars.

Hmm while Malins and Faz did some nice things I don’t think that is the same as the connection/cohesion that the other two have with him. As you say, pretty much a moot because I very much doubt Smally would bounce Goode to the bench for Segun or Lewington on the wing in a big match.

I really like Mawi and would like to see him get on the field a bit earlier but Mako has been great for us since returning from England. I think both will be carrying more with Billy out so will get more equal minutes. Dan must be pushing Wolfy for a bench spot but the latter’s lineout work may well give him the nod, also a handy knack of picking up maul tries.

I think we may see a few England guys get minutes v Irish, they surely don’t want to go into the semi final without playing at all in the run up and it seems like the better option to secure top spot at home. I really hope we don’t see Earl though, it’s obviously critical that he’s fit for the playoffs.

I'd expect to see all the rested players play against LI, unless any are carrying injuries. We may rest Earl, Riccioni (if we have another TH?), Isiekwe, but we then have another week off before Bath, so maybe not. From a marketing perspective it makes much more sense to rest big name players for an away game than at home.

It’s not inconceivable we’ll pick Dan as a replacement back row option (it’s between him and Toby Kinight) . I feel we will need our full team to win either of the last two games and we don’t want to go into the semi on a run of defeats

The remaining games are London Irish at home next Sunday, Bath away two weeks later, the play off semi-final the next weekend (and the final two weeks later.

Leaving aside any ideas about really wanting to stay at the top ahead of Sale or whether it's better to help or hinder London Irish, what is the player management strategy?

Rest all or some for the Irish game? I don't think "marketing" comes into when there's a semi-final booked and it's perhaps the Irish supporters who will up the crowd that day. I'd rest Ben Earl, not sure about others.

Just as uncertain for the Bath game! We could see a pretty well full strength XV and the lots of substitutions from 50 mins on.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

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The Bath game should be near full strength I’d imagine

Quote:

AP
I don't think "marketing" comes into when there's a semi-final booked and it's perhaps the Irish supporters who will up the crowd that day.

The Big Game would suggest otherwise.

The way the rest of the season is scheduled, we have LI, week off, Bath, Semi, week off, Final (hopefully!). If there’s one things Saracens have always got right it is not peaking to early. With the additional weeks off due to being out of Europe I can’t see much testing taking place, except where a player is carrying a niggle which they would otherwise play through.

Quote:

Dolph42

Quote:

AP
I don't think "marketing" comes into when there's a semi-final booked and it's perhaps the Irish supporters who will up the crowd that day.

The Big Game would suggest otherwise.

The way the rest of the season is scheduled, we have LI, week off, Bath, Semi, week off, Final (hopefully!). If there’s one things Saracens have always got right it is not peaking to early. With the additional weeks off due to being out of Europe I can’t see much testing taking place, except where a player is carrying a niggle which they would otherwise play through.

The Big Game is rather different - thousands of seats to sell, mostly to casual supporters / neutrals / people who want to go to the (wonderful) stadium.

The London Irish game - seasonal members and other regular supporters will come if they can, and have booked for the semi-final already. Are there more casual Saracens supporters out there or mainstream London Irish ones?

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Quote:

AP
The remaining games are London Irish at home next Sunday, Bath away two weeks later, the play off semi-final the next weekend (and the final two weeks later.
Leaving aside any ideas about really wanting to stay at the top ahead of Sale or whether it's better to help or hinder London Irish, what is the player management strategy?

Fascinating questions aren't they.
I wonder what McCall would give to be able to announce next weeks team sheet 24 hours later!

On Friday Saints go to Falcons. It's far from a given that they win but if they do then the choice about what side to put out against LI becomes much more interesting as the potential to put out a strong side in an attempt to beat LI and be Kingmakers for Saints would exist. No disrespect to Saint but I'd much rather Sarries played them (if Sarries qualify 1st) than LI who have become something of our bogey team.

My big question would be what is best for our main XV players at this time of the season? Is the main thing they need a bit of a break? training but avoiding contact? etc IF they do that do they need a game before the SF or can they go in "cold"? I can understand the concern with the later but equally risking those players in game against Bath that has little at steak for Sarries but it being Baths last home game of the season, them finding some form and fitness from their star players has the feeling of a full one game where we could pick up injuries (appreciate that's a risk in any game)

LIs last game is Chiefs visiting them who will either have beaten LaRochelle and so floating on cloud 9 or won't and probably won't be fussed. Either way it feels a fairly safe banker for LI.

McCall said last week that he would be resting players for the next two weeks but I appreciate he can change his mind.

The best risk/reward to me feels like going close to full strength V LI at home next week. Key players like Earl, Riccioni, IVZ maybe on the bench and only used if absolutely needed? No disrespect to our other backrows but Earl is so vital I'd be tempted to rest him until the SF. Go for the win against LI. Any slight knocks or even cards for the main XV/23 could potentially be seen out before the SF as long as they weren't too serious. Then play a team similar to the one we played against Saints away at Bath?

It will be fascinating to see what McCall and co decide.

Agree but it was 100% red.
As Vickers said game control is an issue. Madly overplaying in our own half. No idea what the solution is though? Kick it off and compete at the lineout in their half rather than give them clean set piece ball? Good luck to them. Great to see Segun show his class with his try.

Tbf most of the players playing very well but it is inevitably going to tell in the second half.[/quote]

We looked a lot better in the second half when a few players came on and gave us some zip in attack. Totally agree about Segun looks like a great poacher and breaks quite a few tackles. Is Harris going to get a few games on the wing, he looks electric when I've seen him.
I woke up early to catch the game as I'm on Vaction/holiday and great effort by the guys in the end. Looks like we have some great players coming though as well. Your right OM on the red but there should be some sort of time out if there wasn't the intent.

Yes W Sarries only got better in the second half which, as always shows what I know!
Agree on Harris. He also seems to have filled out a bit. Looks very handy indeed.

Looking at the way Tigers and Sale are playing I think we really need to nail down top spot. Not that playing LI or Saints will be easy but Tiger sand Sale are much bigger physical challenges and I don’t think we win playing them back to back, particularly with our back row injuries. Plus the added bonus of Sale and Tigers kicking several shades of @#$%& out of each other in the semi 😁

Agree on all points TK. Do it this weekend and then have a little rest

Well I think Barnes left his glasses at home. That was never a red. Other than poor head position it was a very decent tackle in my eyes. I will take it, we needed the win but its a lottery right now. I would have said penalty or at worst a yellow.

Now the player taken out in the air is something i really hate and I wish that was focussed on more as its completely unneeded. I would have be expecting that to be a red but I get the feeling Barnes knew he had cocked up so went soft.

I expect we would have won anyway, we had the better team out and we have been playing well at home but it adds question marks to yet another game. Is this the worst season for red cards?

Speaking of reds, Genge has been cited for his yellow card tackle on Friday night

Quote:

Duckonstilts
I expect we would have won anyway, we had the better team out and we have been playing well at home but it adds question marks to yet another game. Is this the worst season for red cards?

Or are we just scrutinising everything to the Nth degree now? Perhaps a bit of both?

For me the big issues are:
If the intention of reds in these situations was to stop these tackles happening they don't appear to be working. Is there a solution? What is it?
Given we have an established framework the difference in refereeing interpretation from game to game let alone competition to competition is bewildering. How can we properly standardise things without turning the referees into automatons?

I would love to see Nathan given outings this week and against Bath. He's 18 and big, quick, and powerful.

Let's get him on the bench and see if he continues to display the promise of the Scarlets and Saints games.

To me, he looked like a player in the Sam Underhill mold, only quicker!

Interesting talk with Les Kiss on one of the podcasts. Obviously they've been kicking their heals for the past month? So it's all been about the Sarries game. I guess there's a hope that they might not be game fresh? but if my maths is right (which it rarely is) they are the only team for who qualifying 4th is truly only in their own hands. All other teams need results to go their way too.

for me its was nice to see Hartley get more runs out, yes he may well get pinched by another team next year due to the two normal pairings we have when injuries.. ( tomp/loz - morris/daily). hope he gets a bit more time to pair up and see how he goes with Brandon Jackson

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

Yes, winning their two remaining games (against us and then at home to Exeter) would get London Irish into fourth or even third place as Tigers (home to Quins) and Saints (away at Newcastle) have each just one more game to play. If Saints lose, even one win should be enough.

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Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
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I appreciate it's always a balancing exercise but Hartley has a point of difference in his size in comparison to what we're used to. Hallett played excellently when he came on to. Linking brilliantly with Vunipola especially. I'd hope both are part of the clubs forward planning.
There are quite a few younger (early/mid-twenties) players who whilst they might have come through the Academy just haven't kicked on or are almost always injured. I get the feeling time will be up for some at the end of this season.

Agreed OM, I think Hartley has played himself ahead of Morris as Tompkins’ understudy. I’d have thought his size makes him a priority to keep over many of the other guys. Such a shame for Dom though, he made a huge impact in the semi final v Racing a few years back, I thought he’d really push on after that but injuries have really held him back.

I've seen lots of complaints on various message boards and comments lists about Sarries playing a "weakened" team against Saints (and possibly, possibly not, against Irish), and there's been a fair bit of debate on here about the team strength. A good number are saying it shouldn't be allowed (it's Sarries so of course it shouldn't ), but nobody has mentioned the mandatory rest periods for international players, which would seem to be directly in conflict with "shouldn't be allowed". Do any of our resident statisticians know whether we have any internationals that are still due mandatory rest days, or are they all available whenever we choose till the end of the season?

Roger - I believe the post 6Ns rest period is within the first four matches. For some clubs who don’t bother with Europe this isn’t a factor as they had those weekends off, but like you say at a minimum Jamie, Maro and Faz would have need to rest. I don’t know about Mako or Max as it depends on minutes played.

Not sure RogerG. Do those Internationals need just one week off or is it more? I think this past week all our EQP Internationals were rested. He doesn't count but I think Earl might need a rest just because of all the awesome rugby he's played.

Any team can chose to field any side they fancy.
I bet if I was willing to I could find a side put out by every single team that was under-strength at the time. It's the pointy end of the season so everyone is looking at the table but who is to say that team X who fall just short of 4th isn't down to them sending a weak team away in week 5?

Tbf on quite a few boards where this has been mentioned there's at least one or two posters saying that they'd expect their team to do just the same if they were in the same position.

I'm fascinated to see how it pans out over the next two weeks. Btw no disrespect at all to any of our players as they're a brilliant team but can you imagine how much we'd be bouncing if McFarland, Christie and Billy were all available to add to our other excellent players for the run in?

Did anyone see we are linked with Anthony Watson, was in the Telegraph online just now. It seems we are linked to him everytime he moves club/out of contract.
If Maitland moves on and Owen takes a reduction in his contract, would it be possible to sign him?

Telegraph saying Taylor and Maitland would move on with Watson in. Plus Malins leaving probably leaves some room and Parton is unlikely to be on the same money.

IF Sarries have money for Watson and Parton then we f*cked up letting Malins go in an even bigger way than I though. Suggests it was all about cementing Daly at FB.
Has Parton even played since we announced the signing? been injured ever since afaik?

Maybe it came down to Max wanting to start as fullback in all the games and we couldn't give him that guarantee. Would have loved to see us sign Arundell instead of Parton and Watson (if we have room in the cap and he signs). I don't think Parton had started a game for Irish and is still injured I believe.

Wray I would be sad to see leave and still makes an impact when he comes on. Taylor has been injury prone through no fault of his own and has been great for us when he is fit.
But could see him leaving at the end of the season.
I agree OM we messed up with Max if we had the funds to keep him on. There are quite a few Welsh players leaving their regions and maybe we should look at some of those as well. I think another post alluded to the above and it makes sense. Exeter seem to be hoovering up a lot of young Welsh talent.

Duncan Taylor receives three game ban for red card down to two after tackle school;
Matches missed;
23/04 v London Irish
06/05 v Bath
13/05 Premiership Semi-Final( free if has done tackle school)

Quote:

Sarriebone
Duncan Taylor receives three game ban for red card down to two after tackle school;
Matches missed;
23/04 v London Irish
06/05 v Bath
13/05 Premiership Semi-Final( free if has done tackle school)

Does this give Olly Hartley 2 games to stake his claim for a place on the bench in the Semi?

Absolutely Duncan ... or Hallett or Morris I guess?