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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:06:15:14:42:56 by Darraghgirl.

I’m relying on the fact that Sarries always win the premiership in rugby World Cup years (based on the last 3 anyway) .Just hope it ends 15 v 15 and we are only talking about the rugby.

A lot of stories in this one but I particularly like the two old warhorses in the back row going up against each other. Jackson Wray and Jono Ross, two great club men, who might not be starting if not for injuries, putting it all on the line one more time. I hope we leave it all out on the field this year, all the noises coming from the club suggest we will so it should be a great match.

I saw that Christie isn’t going to be fit, it would’ve been a miracle if he had been to be honest. Hopefully Isiekwe has recovered from his head injury so we can remain unchanged from the semi final. If not, I have huge faith in CHH to step in but I’m not sure who would be on the bench. It’s likely to be very physical so the replacements could be crucial. Saying that, Smally’s kept the front row on for most of the match v Saints, I wonder if he’ll keep with the same thinking on Saturday.

The only other question might be Goode or Daly at full back, I think Goode gets the nod though to help defuse Fords spirals and kicking game.

[www.telegraph.co.uk] As usual Charlie Morgan with an excellent article on Ford v Farrell.

One part stood out particularly:

“Having earned seven tackle-turnovers from 120 tackles in the Premiership this season, according to Opta, Farrell is winning back possession once every 17 tackles. That is the best rate of any player in the Premiership.”

Nerves have kicked in, plently of coverage from the local BBC section for Machester area, abosoute sod all from BBC london as usual

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

Quote:

ninjafez
Nerves have kicked in

x100

Daly has to start. Either at full back or instead of Maitland on the wing.

Maitland has been class recently and his ability under the high ball against Ford could be key.

I’m guessing it will be the same 23 as the semi. Don’t know whether Davies would be fit for the bench and possibly Christie?

I saw it mentioned in the times (from McCall) that the final had come a bit too early for Christie. Shame as that would’ve been a major boost.

Saracens Men team to play Sale Sharks:

1 Eroni Mawi
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Nick Isiekwe
7 Ben Earl
8 Jackson Wray
9 Ivan Van Zyl
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Sean Maitland
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Alex Lozowski
14 Max Malins
15 Alex Goode

Replacements:
16 Theo Dan
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Christian Judge
19 Callum Hunter-Hill
20 Toby Knight
21 Aled Davies
22 Duncan Taylor
23 Elliot Daly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:26:12:06:39 by Sarriebone.

Edit: was too slow with the lineup.

Mako on the bench is a big surprise, either carrying a knock or McCall wants some experience on an otherwise slightly callow bench.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:26:12:08:28 by TommyKentish.

Saracens Men team to play Sale Sharks: Deleted as no need for multiples taking up space.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:26:12:11:38 by tpr's headmistress.

Yes it’s very unlike Mark not to go for experience first in a big game. Hope as mentioned it doesn’t suggest Mako isn’t fully fit. Mawi has been excellent so can’t say he doesn’t deserve it.

Sale Sharks Starting XV:

15. Joe Carpenter,
14. Tom Roebuck,
13. Rob du Preez,
12. Manu Tuilagi,
11. Arron Reed,
10. George Ford,
9. Gus Warr;
1. Simon McIntyre,
2. Akker van der Merwe,
3. Nick Schonert,
4. Jean-Luc du Preez,
5. Jonny Hill,
6. Tom Curry,
7. Sam Dugdale,
8. Jono Ross (C).

Replacements:

16. Ewan Ashman,
17. Bevan Rodd,
18. Coenie Oosthuizen,
19. Josh Beaumont,
20. Tom Ellis,
21. Raffi Quirke,
22. Sam James,
23. Tom O’Flaherty

I wonder if, given he's played for us in the Premiership, Tom Ellis is able to get a winners medal regardless of the result?

As Russ Petty shows, this XV hasn't all started for us this year: [twitter.com] (although, obviously, injuries). Some big calls by the coaches but that's why they do their job.

I half thought they'd snap Alex's streak of starting knock out games this week, but he's now the undisputed most experienced starter in Premiership finals with 9 (out of the 21 in total!).

Great question on the medals Barty. In my mind it was only the 23 that got them, but you'd want anyone who got on to have the opportunity for sure.

I was also somehow unaware that Marcello Bosch was the South American version of Austin Healy on co-comms [twitter.com]

O'Flaherty on the bench surprised me unless he is carrying a knock too

The nerves are starting to build. Will be watching from home unfortunately

Mako out, Hislop replaces him on the bench

Oh, bum!

Hislop will probably score the winning try!



~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

No problem with Hislop, just sad for Mako.

George and Maitland big losses, but their replacements aren't doing too badly.
Surprised the George incident wasn't looked at, could easily have been a yellow imo

Yes boys!!!!! Incredible resilience! Thought Theo and Nick I were phenomenal - either could have been MOTM - both contributed to a rock solid line out, and tackled like men possessed.

On to Europe no. 4 next year!!!

Yes lads! Huge effort. Theo was my MotM, huge pressure on his shoulders and he was outstanding

Considering all the injuries that was an incredible effort against a very strong Sale side. Huge amount of credit to their performance, I’m sure they’ll be back next season.

I thought we were done for when we were 23-25 down with 15 mins to go but Maro came up with that huge play disrupting and eventually stealing their lineout. Theo Dan, what a star, it really was sink or swim with Jamie off so soon and my word how he swam. Super Dunc with the crucial charge down, how we’ll miss those moments of genius. Captain Faz what else is there to say? So impressive how we kept on finding a way to score against a top defence, despite our lack of big ball carriers in the forwards. The improvement from last year is amazing to see.

Amazing even sweeter being among Sale fans, I was in my Sarries shirt screaming for every decision lol. Well done what a performance and we hung in there when they went ahead I had a moment of Not again. IVZ has become some player along with Theo D and the other Theo still has to come back!

I just got back home from rail delays, going to finals are exuhsted with this club looking forward to the itv watch when I can actually appreciate the performance...

Nice little touch from google, search for 'saracens' and it overlays fireworks.... I'm all sparked out and I don't even drink....


Yyyyyeesssssss Boys!!

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

Get in there boys.
Losing Mako, Jamie and Sean so early on as well as having our back row already depleted, shows the resilience of this team. The scrum may have faltered, but the team didn’t, and they couldn’t live with us in the loose.
Faz led exceptionally as always. But Theo Dan,really stepped up, we’ve unearthed another gem.
Great too see Jacko ( body on the line)and big Dunc (great charge down)finish on a high and boy are we going to miss Max. Well done boys. CHAMPIONS CHAMPIONS CHAMPIONS

Nick won every single line out on our throw! Don't think I've ever seen that before. And stole 2 of theirs.

Well that’s not surprising when Sale only contested one line out. What you could not do was then out maul the Sale pack.

It was a great team performance from both sides. There was hardly a hair's breadth between them. Well done Sarries and commiseratons to Sale. I hope we are both there for a rematch next year.

Quote:

Eric Browett
Nick won every single line out on our throw! Don't think I've ever seen that before. And stole 2 of theirs.

When we have Maro, Nick and Theo the Elder playing I’m not sure how you win lineout ball from us. That said I though Tizard was great today, much needed beef in the engine room.

What a wonderful final and a smashing day out. Congrats to the club and all Sarries supporters

For me a huge slice of credit for that game goes to Pearce and his team. I honestly think that's the best refereeing (team) performance I have seen in any game, let alone a final, for the last season at least. He kept the game flowing, his communication was good but firm and above all he was consistent in his interpretation and the way he penalised the teams.

I also think credit goes to the teams for the manner in which they played the game which (Ross aside) was really good-natured.

Huge credit to Sale and Sanderson. Whilst it always felt to me like Sarries were going to win and I think the score was a bit generous to Sale I equally thought they played very well and it wouldn't have taken much at all for it to be closer or even for a Sale result. Definitely a proper competition rather than a coronation.
This is definitely the beginning of something for them I'd suggest rather than the end and I'm really excited for the "journey" (sorry) they have ahead. A young squad generally and an exceptional DoR and owners.

I honestly don't have a clue what happens in the front row but once George went off we lost the scrum and the major credit seems to go to McIntyre getting one (or more!) over on Riccioni (which is something we have very rarely seen so credit there)
I also thought Curry was immense. Very different from Earl who had far more key moments but Currys engine is hugely impressive and his work on both sides of the ball was brilliant. I'd really like to see if he and Earl could work together for England?
Credit to Hill too for signalling for the game to stop when George took his knock.

As for this Sarries team ... wow. Neither team where full strength and I think the absentees were pretty well balanced out but to lose a first choice prop/hooker and winger so early and still keep great shape and follow the plan was excellent. Hopefully George and all the others that took knocks on both teams are ok.

Pretty much every Sarries player had a great game. For me that's the best I've seen Isiekwe play for a while. Imperious at the lineout and a huge shift in the loose. I really hope he can find that level again on a consistent basis (IMO it will put him back in the England reckoning of he does)
It almost goes without saying that IVZ was exceptional (comfortably the best 9 in the League? he is for me) held up a Sale try with a little help from his friends and scored ... just ... a good one of his own.

For Dan to come on so early, play 70? odd and not only be ok but be one of the best players on the field is remarkable. Just a hugely impressive guy and the lineout which has previously been a bit of an Achilles heel for our second choice hookers looked secure.

Another incredible game from Tompkins. Manu is getting some plaudits because his running straight at defenders gave Sale some momentum but he was actually a very limited threat and his defence was exploited. Tompkins gave his usual pocket dynamo performance and whilst his defence stats look awful he fulfilled his job which was getting in quick and shutting down space and options even if he didn't compete the first up tackle. He was nuggety as flip and got the vital turnover that denied Sale the last minute points that might have given the losing score an extra polish.

Good game too for Earl, our other Duracell Bunny, he looked to be every where at the game but on a re-watch he was pivotal in both defence and attack, as well as offering his usual threat at the breakdown and harrying Sale on kick chase. He really does deserve at the minimum a chance to show what he can do in England camp.

Goode certainly proved me wrong as I felt he was maybe losing his way a bit at the tail of the season but that was an accomplished performance by the old stager Is St Albans/Harpenden ready for Storm Alex that will hit it over the next three or four days? FKWs assemble!!

Well done too to Taylor. As McCall said "Duncan Taylor doing Duncan Taylor things" an early engulfing tackle and the brilliant charge down both momentum shifting moments.

Tbh I could have used all the above (long ramble) to talk about how good Max was. MotM on pretty much any other day and as always great on both sides of the ball. Counter-rucking to cause Sale to lose possession twice and taking two trys brilliantly as well as basically setting up another. Also interesting to note how well he played off Farrell. The guy is an exceptional talent and we will miss him. Daly in contrast was probably Sales best player. I won't bang on but neither will I sugar the pill. That was a bad performance.

Then we come to the actual MotM. Captain Farrell. The guy is built for days like that. What A game he had.
Comfortably one of the best performances of his we've seen for quite a while. I can't think of a single area where he wasn't comfortably the better 10 and his leadership was vital. His communication with Pearce and whilst he was insistent he was respectful and got his point across. You could pick any one of about four or five pieces of passing skill in that game and had they done by Ford, Smith or A N Other 10 choice for England would have resulted in florid prose in the press. Also lets be clear this wasn't "10 delivers playing off the front foot against poor opposition" which is the usual narrative when he has a good game. This was 10 playing behind a beaten scrum and a pack which played brilliantly but was far from dominant.
Tbh his whole performance was kind of typified by the huge grin he had as Sarries went down a man with almost ten minutes to go. He just loves the game

For all the rest of the players unmentioned, great games too and enjoy the win and the week to come. Hopefully this is the start of something. Let's see that final performance as a jumping off point for next season.

With regard to England for me that was a definitive performance. Get to England camp and (for this RWC) Borthwicks main question is to ask Farrell what he wants/needs around him and give it to him. Previously the side seems to have been built to accommodate everyone but him. Fitting it around Ford or Smith. Give him the players he wants and lets see what the results are.

(edit) Forgot to say how good Jackson was and how much he and others will be missed.
Also thanks to DG for modding (and adding the fantastic new banner header!!) and our team iof excellent review writers.
Cheers

(edit 2)
Mawi was also great from the start and CH-H made a huge impact from the bench.
Also c'mon the Sarrries Women later today. Beat Bristol at the StoneX and they will have given themselves a great chance of a home SF. Bristol look very good after their win v Chiefs last week so best behaviour, no cards please. Good luck.

(edit 3!!)
Well done to Tom Ellis. Has gone from being a quality but peripheral player at Bath to having both a winners and runners up medal in the Premiership final and will start next season playing for Sale!! Quite a turn a round in fortune and all credit to him for taking his chance(s)

(edit 4)
I told you we should practice our drop-goals!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:28:09:08:11 by OldMarovian.

Yes, the final showed 2 things beyond doubt. 1. We are going to miss Max big time and 2. Eliot Daly’s position is full back. Had Sean Maitland not been injured he would have come on after 60 minutes at the back to link up with Malins and we all know how that goes.

And seeing how Farrell and Malins work together I can understand why it’s tempting to bring in Watson.

Much as that will fill the hole I hope it doesn’t happen and that Roti and Ben Harris are finally given the chance they so much deserve.

They certainly have big, big, big shoes to fill though.

Max was certainly brilliant yesterday and I think in terms of game reading ability is way ahead of Watson. Daly made a horrendous error for their try but can’t be blamed for the foot in touch.
On balance we had far more meaningful possession and territory than Sale did so absolutely the right outcome.Scrum was a real issue in the first half, and their box kicks troubled us throughout.
Anyone know what happened with Mako?

With Maitland re-signing surely any theoretical Watson signing is over Duncan? Tbh I'll be actively disappointed if we sign him. Better uses of any spare cap the club might have (which tbh seems unlikely) also in balance terms with Goode/Maitland/Lewington and Daly all more senior looking to the future seems a better plan.
Also Segun was signed to one of Sarries rarer "long term" deals. So hopefully next season sees him being backed regularly with the start.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:05:28:09:19:31 by OldMarovian.

I totally agree - it would be great to see Roti starting regularly in Max’s place.

“Also let’s be clear this wasn't "10 delivers playing off the front foot against poor opposition" which is the usual narrative when he has a good game. This was 10 playing behind a beaten scrum and a pack which played brilliantly but was far from dominant.”

Couldn’t agree more OM. I was wondering where we were going to get our go forward from missing so many carriers and there were a few times when the Sale defence marched us back a phase after phase but Farrell (and supporting cast) kept on manipulating the defence and creating breaks. It truly was a masterclass. Considering England’s recent forwards performances he’s got to start at 10 after that.

What amazes me about Farrell's season is how he's been able to subtly shift between two styles of play depending on what's in front of him. He's always been a master of carrying the ball right up to the line of defence and passing late to release a player on his shoulder. When you see a fly half taking the ball from a standing or slow start and barely moving, your first thought is indecisiveness or just slow play. But this season its been an important tactic which I don't think any team has quite adjusted to yet. Farrell standing pretty much as a statue and having runners left and right with no clue which direction he'll pass in (particularly as sometimes he's even facing backwards obscuring the ball), rather than him hitting the line and making the semi-obvious pass along the line. I still sit in the stands and think sometimes it looks like aimless chucking the ball around and hoping for the best but it sure worked yesterday!

A bit late to the party as I was playing cricket yesterday but having now watched the game just wanted to congratulate the whole team on what has been a pretty special season. We don’t have the strength in depth that we had a few years ago when budgets were larger but we still have some world class players supported by some very hard working and very capable club players. I thought our back division was far more creative than Sale’s and as others have said Owen was at the centre of much of that creativity. We will undoubtedly miss Malins next season but I actually think wing is his best position in a team that is playing open running rugby.
So good to see both Jackson and Duncan go out on a high and after having both made useful contributions to the cause !
Roll on 2024 and I just hope Borthwick picks Owen as his first choice No 10 for the RWC.

Bristol leading Sarries at half time. Good game so far, slightly slow start.
Was worried about the referee as he was the same one v Chiefs but he has been great right up until the end where he penalised a Sarries player exciting the tackle E to W and not delaying the ball being played at all then Packer back-chat made it an easily kicked 3.
Need to play the game in their half and good as our Sarries are it's a hot day and the running game looks to suit Bristol more than Sarries.
All to play for but discipline needs to be spot on.

Bristol looking much the better side so far

One thing we did do well yesterday was keep the ball away from the back row at the breakdown. Can’t recall a penalty against us for holding on.

Lovely try from Moore. Quite the run in.

Re yesterday I also thought it was a really nice touch of Pearce to make a point of congratulating Wray as he went off. Top ref, top bloke.

Well done the Sarries Women. Good win and even denied Bristol any points with the last kick.

Bern and Keight exceptional for Bristol and they're a very dangerous team in the loose.

Moore WotM but lots of great performances. Campbell class as always. Loved the Cleall McKenna try. A win next week and I think that's a home SF?

8 points behind Exeter with a game in hand. But Exeter must lose for us to get a home SF

Thanks Duncan I somehow missed that Chiefs won yesterday and thought they just had a game to play.
It will be interesting to see if Glaws put out a full team for their home game with Chiefs. Similar calculations as we had recently possible. Nothing to play for in League position terms, being game fresh and getting a win over a possible Finals competitor Vs keeping your main squad out of harms way?

The partying, he has begun ...

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

I get the feeling that players SM accounts might be fun over the last 12 and coming 36 hours

I can’t see anything beyond the front page , but they all thoroughly deserve it and hope they have a great time .
Presumably nobody will challenge Alex Goode’s 3 day bender in his kit after the Euro final in Newcastle ?

OT, advice was to press ESC before the paywall bit kicked in - I managed to do that, but it doesn't always work. It's worth having a go though.

Thanks for the tip - will give it a go …

Very late post match thought ... Tackle School seems to have worked wonders for Farrell!

Just had a cursory look at other forums, you would never have thought a brilliant game had taken place yesterday. Most comments were a reflection of the bitterness they share as to Sarries successes over the years particularly the brilliant coaching. It is about time they concentrated on their own inadequacies

well certain boards i frequent dont tend to have the real blow'ards on but as soon as we won again the same things would have come out of the woodwork, even if we would have won in a few years time.. its just best to move on, and enjoy the rugby the club is serving.

i'm sure the media personalities who still are grinding axes will find at least a decade of ammo and links no matter how tedious, i'm far more concerned with off the field stuff right now to give a jot about those.

hopefully a few more new STH coming in, i renewed today

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

I thought lots of the comments are very positive especially about how the club has developed the way they play and also the performances of certain individuals. A few separating not liking the club because of the cap breaking from liking players and what the coaches have done which seems fair enough to me.
Lots of folks out there who will never be happy and that's their right too.
Some of the "haters" are easy to laugh at. Those who say Sarries are playing with the same squad as when we were caught, those who want to blame the Wasps cluster-f*ck at Sarries feet, those who say PRL treated the club leniently with a £5M fine, etc
Some supporters it's easy to empathise with how they feel.
I said on another forum. I really struggle to believe that we aren't 100% compliant now BUT I will probably not feel 100% like celebrating until our cap audit is completed and passed by Rodgers.
At that point the majority of people who still bang on about "current" cap breaking will be the cranks who were never going to be convinced anyway.

Well worth a listen

[youtu.be]

Tops-off McCall Tiki-Tiki-Tonga'ing with the team is not something I thought I'd ever see

Quote:

Stanster
Well worth a listen
[youtu.be]

Never thought I'd ever hear the roly poly enthusing about Farrell 'the king'.

OM: the coaches go tops off after big finals wins! Here they are in Newcastle [twitter.com] and you can see mark in the background in this iconic photo of gussie in 2015 as well [twitter.com]

I don't know how I missed that Ned? All good fun though

Oh yes, the major 'problem' with this year has been that we've spotted Mark smiling in public too much, again, it's normally only after we win something!

Yes, it's very disconcerting when he's got even the slightest smile, let alone during a match.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Don't mean to be cruel but did Bomber Hislop manage to finish a game for us. Might be a trick of the memory but he seemed to clout someone's head with his shoulder in every match with the inevitable consequences

He is now off to Edinburgh , so it wont be a problem for us next year !

Quote:

Duncan96
Don't mean to be cruel but did Bomber Hislop manage to finish a game for us. Might be a trick of the memory but he seemed to clout someone's head with his shoulder in every match with the inevitable consequences

Watched that again and whilst it was definitely a yellow it probably only got picked up because Hill milked it. I may be wrong but I don’t think he even went for an HIA. That being said he was no doubt knackered and probably just wanted a rest!

Quote:

JimG

Quote:

Duncan96
Don't mean to be cruel but did Bomber Hislop manage to finish a game for us. Might be a trick of the memory but he seemed to clout someone's head with his shoulder in every match with the inevitable consequences

Watched that again and whilst it was definitely a yellow it probably only got picked up because Hill milked it. I may be wrong but I don’t think he even went for an HIA. That being said he was no doubt knackered and probably just wanted a rest!

You're right, he did milk it, and no he didn't go for an HIA.

A link to two (imo) worse offenses by Sale that were ignored despite happening right in front of Pearce [twitter.com]

Brainless from Ross. You can’t even claim it’s accidental as he compounds it by elbowing Nick in the face on the floor. Really professional from Nick who just gets on with his work. He had a fabulous game.

Well he is a South African….