SARRIES v BATH: please post match related comments here

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:05:16:12:48:32 by Darraghgirl.

If it’s Luke Pearce I definitely wouldn’t go with Riccioni as he’s pinged him off the park every time. Clarey is back fit and a much better bet.

I'm a massive fan of Clarey but he isn't a better TH than Riccioni. On the other hand The Bard is spot on that Pearce has had an issue with his scrummaging previously. Hoskins benched last week so is he currently ahead of Clarey?
I don't know but we're in for a very long day at the office if we don't have some parity for some of the game. When we scrum for all thats holy play away quickly please!

I do think we can attack their line out at least and possibly gain an advantage there. Ewels has been running it well but I think they lack the number of defensive jumpers we do. McFarland doing McFarland stuff us what we need!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:24:19:26:30 by OldMarovian.

Saracens Men team to play Bath Rugby:

1 Eroni Mawi
2 Jamie George
3 Christian Judge
4 Maro Itoje
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Aled Davies
10 Owen Farrell (c)
11 Tom Parton
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Rotimi Segun
15 Elliot Daly

Replacements:

16 Theo Dan
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Hugh Tizard
20 Billy Vunipola
21 Toby Knight
22 Ivan van Zyl
23 Alex Goode

No big Theo is a blow, good to see JMG ok after limping off

Was Theo M injured when he went off or is this just planned rotation?

Bath Rugby:
1 Beno Obano,
2 Niall Annett,
3 Will Stuart,
4 Quinn Roux,
5 Charlie Ewels,
6 Ted Hill,
7 Sam Underhill,
8 Alfie Barbeary,
9 Ben Spencer,
10 Orlando Bailey,
11 Will Muir,
12 Max Ojomoh,
13 Ollie Lawrence,
14 Joe Cokanasiga,
15 Matt Gallagher

Replacements:
16 Tom Dunn,
17 Thomas du Toit,
18 Archie Griffin,
19 Jacques du Plessis,
20 Josh Bayliss,
21 Louis Schreuder,
22 Cameron Redpath,
23 Jaco Coetzee

Strong looking team and looks like Cam Redpath has made a quicker than expected recovery

Referee: Luke Pearce (148th Prem referee appointment)
ARs: Craig Maxwell-Keys & John Meredith
TMO: David Rose

Two very strong teams. Well matched. If we turn up it could be a real nail biter!

A couple of outrageous back rows there.

Interesting call on Judge ahead of Riccioni/Clarey/Hoskins. Otherwise no great surprises, and good to see Gonzalez is OK.

The most controversial referee appointment this weekend is Dickson getting Harlequins v Northampton, which really shouldn't happen. If Quins are gifted an undeserved 5 points against the leaders it won't help our chances of making the playoffs.

If Dickson was biased in any way everyone would see it and it would be the end of his post rugby playing career as a ref. I'm pretty sure I don't agree with his every decision but he would be a fool to throw it all away on one match which might not even get Quins into the playoffs. More of a concern is that Saints are so far ahead they give some of their better players a rest just as we used to do!

I never have a good feeling about Friday night matches, we never play well.

Quote:

Sarriebone
I never have a good feeling about Friday night matches, we never play well.

Agree Sarriebone, usually not a good night for us bar a few exceptions (Quins away, Glos away). Will either take it out of our hands, or you never know we may just play for 60 mins or more. Good luck boys

Bit of magic from Owen and 12-0 at half time is an excellent position to be in. Real commitment across the park.

That was exciting!

That's one word for it...

Blimey, what a win. Well played lads. What a difference Theo made when he came on!

Have to say I found the ref'ing a bit odd tonight, only the one holding penalty given despite several jackals that should have been rewarded from both sides.

Felt like we switched off a little in the second half, though credit to Bath they came out firing in the second 40. Their first try was definitely a double movement though...

Intense!

I didn’t think had that sort of performance in us these days, old school Sarries there.

Daly giving his shirt to that lad 🥺

Quote:

TommyKentish
Daly giving his shirt to that lad 🥺

Don't, you'll set me off...

Sarriebone: That's the premiership for you, it's different to Europe! There's a reason a lot more tries are scored in the prem, you really have to earn those turnovers. Still, hell of a game from both sides. Just a bit annoyed that in the first half there wasn't enough respect being given to the reason why there was kicking, some insane big hits coming in from everyone. Earl was correct in his post match interview, test match level intensity. If Austin wants to watch basketball he can go and get someone who actually likes the game to talk about it. There was a scrum where we clearly set up a 'heavy' Earl break and Willis follow up carry and both were absolutely smashed. Ice baths all round.

That was a quarter final match, the players knew it and who cares about basketball?

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Really well played team and coaches.
Breaking the away-duck (The Showdown excluded) feels significant and with an easier run in than us I'd not be surprised if we bump into then again if we finish top4.

Well done to Peel and the pack. I expected the scrum to be a big issue and even in the second half when Bath established a little dominance the pack wrestled it back for the closing stages. Well done to Judge.

In the end a very tight game and all the more exciting for that. The more traditional defensive game plan but when it works, it works. If it does against Bristol too then Sarries are definitely back!

Farrell was excellent and I thought spoke very well after the game. Felt we shaded the game pretty much everywhere but just as we had Farrell had they had Russell would he have found those extra points for them?
Not a fan of Pearce breakdown interpretation. Otherwise thought he had a decent game. Maro call feels right, replayed angle looks bad but the first replay from the other side shows barely any head contact. Still on another day ... mind you on that other day the TMO might know what a double-movement is!

Really good performance through the team but JMG again shows what a signing we have made. Work rate off the scale and he always seems to make significant interventions. Bath are rightly very impressed by their backrow to me it was one of the areas where Sarries where quite a bit better with Earl and Willis having great games.
A real shame that the ball didn't bounce up for Willis as he had Segun outside and JMG inside. Feels like that could gave been try time.

Segun continues to play superbly and Parton and Daly also had strong games. Tompkins as always proving he's one of our most important players for playing at our best. The growing partnership with Cinti looks great.
Excellent industrious game from Isiekwe and Dan was bottled-lightning when he came on.

Loved Mawis hand-off on Lawrence for his burst through their centre. Less of a fan of Barbearys croc-roll on Willis that had the later incensed (maybe because of what a similar dangerous tackle did to Jack?) The sooner they ban it the better.

Very interesting that in such a physical game we left players on the bench, unless I missed Knight and Goode coming on? Still a slight question for me over experience v energy on the bench as a few of the big names had very little impact.

Feel both teams will need a week off after the physicality of that game. Hopefully those who took knocks are alright. Two incredibly tough games and competitors to come but that result continues to leave top4 in Sarries hands.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:27:07:43:32 by OldMarovian.

Becoming very frustrated with how Pearce referees the game over the last year, with the refusal to give breakdown penalties.
Looked like both gonzalez and earl were both dealing with injuries at the end so hope the 2 weeks gap helps with recovery

Even though its Bristol in a fortnight tempting to give JMG extra time? Two weeks in a row he's looked to be carrying an injury and played through. If McFarland is back I'd swap them out maybe?

I think we were a little fortunate there were so few scrums. I suspect Bath only had 2 or 3 all game, which I think is a testament to how well our back 3 played because they had a lot of kicks to field.

We need to be a little careful of how we use our subs. Bringing Willis off so early felt premature.

A great effort all round. Hope the ice baths worked.

2 more things:

1. Owen, do me a favour and don’t leave it until 1 second left on the shot clock before you kick the goal. 5 seconds ain’t gonna make much difference in the rest of the game, but it might make a huge difference to my heart and nerves.

2. TNT commentators as ever did their best to ruin the game. Rather than complain about the kicking, or tell us all that anyone new to the sport would find it boring or not understand - why don’t you explain what’s going on and why it’s happening. They probably will think it’s boring if you tell them it is. And Austin Healey- please please stop with the card fest. He wanted Segun in the bin for a soft penalty at worst, and calling for a yellow card when Maro was (rather stupidly) off his feet in the second half was completely ludicrous. Sometimes their commentary makes me pine for the days of Barnes and Morris. (Sometimes).

That match really was intense both for the players and the spectators. Two top class packs going hammer and tongs at each other with the only area where I thought one team had the slight edge was us in the lineout as JMG made a mess of a few of theirs. No player lacked commitment on either side but I do think Owen deserves a shout out as not many number 10s can both provide the moments of magic whilst also making such a contribution to the defensive effort - he really is a force of nature and we will definitely miss him.
It is great that there is a week off now and I hope that we will see a similar team with the same energy at Ashton Gate in a fortnights time.
I am not going to criticise Luke Pearce for his interpretation of holding on penalties as he was consistent for the whole match but I do think that this is an area where rugby needs to look to establish a more consistent interpretation amongst the pool of referees, at least within the same competition! It is all about risk vs reward!
As to the commentary team, if they can’t fully enjoy a game like that then I despair as it was far more exciting than most try fests I have seen.

That was a proper Sarries performance , and great to see in a really competitive game between two good teams . It was nice to see Roti and Tom Parton given another go - both played well and Tom has some real gas , which we need .
JMG was immense again , and I will be amazed if he doesnt get player of the season …and then there was Owen - what more can you say about the man ?
The only thing that spoiled it a bit for me was Austin Healey trying to get everyone carded for minor offences , particularly as the TMOs can obviously hear the commentary …I wish he would just leave it to the officials !

A great Friday night match, cant remember us playing like that on a Friday for a long time. Bath away was a game I really expected us to lose basis recent performances, but that one was just brilliant, out of the top draw and sends a real message to anyone else hoping to be in the playoffs. Some great performances, notably Shegun , Daly and Farrel in the backs and Willis , Earl and Dan up front. I too was worried Farrell left it a bit late on the shot clock, fortunately so did the ref who helpfully called out 5 to get OF to move! I was please we didnt empty the bench, I have felt for a long time that leads to sloppy uncoordinated play in the last 10 and with a game so close we couldn’t afford that. Will watch Bristol and Sale now with interest this weekend, still think we need to beat both for the home SF but with so few games at Stonex (and such huge gaps between them) this year it would great to have an extra one.
One last thought, what a huge gap next season with no OF , I do worry about the succession planning there and fear a couple of seasons outside the playoffs beckon if things dont improve.

Agree maynas, it will be a huge challenge without Farrell but also an opportunity. We've seen there's a risk being so reliant on one player to set the tone for the whole team. I'm excited about the future and if that involves time fighting mid table bring it on.
I think the top 6 or so are all quality teams capable if competing at the top if the table so even with no rebuild dip it will be a challenge.

One question I had which I'd be intrigued if anyone had answers to is why we compete so rarely at lineout when the opposition had a lineout very close to their line?
We had one this game after the Parton break at the start of the game. Certainly with our defensive jumpers it's probably one of the highest reward v risk scenarios out there. We've chosen not to compete several times recently too in the same situation.
I don't get it. What am I missing?

Also watching the game again some great low tackling from Farrell as said above.
Still think JMG was MotM though. Incredible performance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:04:27:18:22:22 by OldMarovian.

Absorbing yes, exciting no !

Last night Farrell took all of his time ( as is his right within the exciting rules ) to take a penalty that my late Granny could have knocked over. A few weeks ago Fin Smith was berated by the referee for taking his time over a similar kick against Saracens. Common denominator- Luke Pearce; consistency is all we ask for………

I hope I'm wrong but it looked to me like Ben Earl had fractured a metacarpal or otherwise significantly damaged his right hand. His hand looked swollen and he couldn't shake hands with it. He also said that his golf season had been ruined, which I presume to mean he won't be able to hold a club.

quick question - how was Bath's 1st try anything other than a double movement? Clearest example I've seen in ages. Even Florence Dayglo was a bit surprised it was given.

Totally agree OM. We showed that we could compete at the lineout and yet let Bath win the ball and then drive us backwards. I thought that we also should have not taken the penalty with 3 mins remaining and played more rugby at their end of the pitch. Had we conceded a penalty and gifted them 3 points it would have been a total disaster.

I’d have to look again but it didn’t look like the tackle was complete before he lunged again,

Banzai I sort of see what you mean but I think you have to take the three and the lead in that situation plus as we saw it ran the clock down.

Completely disagree with that Banzai, with 3 minutes left in the game you take any opportunity you can to move into the lead. If we were already ahead then I'd potentially agree but not taking that almost guaranteed points would have been insane.

Quote:

darktagnan
quick question - how was Bath's 1st try anything other than a double movement? Clearest example I've seen in ages. Even Florence Dayglo was a bit surprised it was given.

We could only guess that refs thought he was driven over but tv coverage definitely looked like a double movement but it was a close up

Quote:

ICantBelieveItsNotBartyII
Completely disagree with that Banzai, with 3 minutes left in the game you take any opportunity you can to move into the lead. If we were already ahead then I'd potentially agree but not taking that almost guaranteed points would have been insane.

I think a scrum would have been the best option. Kill more clock high chance of getting a pen.

In the prem the team kicking off after a score, is the next team to score >60% of the time. We ended up winning but bath got the ball back immediately and arguably should have scored

Absolutely no question that we had to take the 3 points when on offer. Any other option would have been crazy. You are right that we got our catching pod completely screwed up and Bath had a possibility of making us pay big time but our scramble defence held out.

Quote:

Stumpy7780
I think a scrum would have been the best option. Kill more clock high chance of getting a pen.
In the prem the team kicking off after a score, is the next team to score >60% of the time. We ended up winning but bath got the ball back immediately and arguably should have scored

What's the point in HOPING for a pen when you've already got one? (and with our iffy scrum at that).

Maybe we should have let them score instead, on the basis of there being a 60% chance we'd then get a score of our own?

Quote:

ICantBelieveItsNotBartyII

Quote:

Stumpy7780
I think a scrum would have been the best option. Kill more clock high chance of getting a pen.
In the prem the team kicking off after a score, is the next team to score >60% of the time. We ended up winning but bath got the ball back immediately and arguably should have scored

What's the point in HOPING for a pen when you've already got one? (and with our iffy scrum at that).

Maybe we should have let them score instead, on the basis of there being a 60% chance we'd then get a score of our own?

A scrum runs down at least a minute then a pen would mean even more time wasted.

If they’d scored we wouldn’t have had time to kick off

Also Pearce didn’t give us a pen for a scrum just that Bath collapsed just before then, one of the rare occasions we were dominant!

And if we'd lost the ball from that scrum and not scored any points at all?

Not scoring is better than conceding a try. We rode our luck and came out on top. Pleased with the result, was a great night in Bath. Let’s hope we can get 10 points in the next two games

….but winning is better than drawing?

Well it feels like Tigers first 65 minutes might be a good study on how to shut Bristol down.
Winning the most important thing but given other fixtures feels like we'll need BPs to keep top2.

I wasn’t suggesting we didn’t take the 3 points but merely to run the clock down more before doing so. As we have seen recently 3 minutes is an eternity in rugby.

Quote:

Banzai1314
I wasn’t suggesting we didn’t take the 3 points but merely to run the clock down more before doing so. As we have seen recently 3 minutes is an eternity in rugby.

Clearly you were suggesting exactly that.

Still getting a warm feel when reflecting on Friday night. Bar Finn Russell that was Bath’s strongest team and I thought it was one of our best performances of the season, just when we need it!

I think if that's the starting point for the remainder of the games then we're in a good place.

Are there any plans afoot to stop the ridiculous blocking by defending players running back then effectively slowing right down under the high ball? Both sides were at it in earnest on Friday evening and with the high number of kicks it was really noticeable - even the reserved Austin Healey mentioned it 20 times!

My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.

I'm begging her for one more try!

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
Still getting a warm feel when reflecting on Friday night. Bar Finn Russell that was Bath’s strongest team and I thought it was one of our best performances of the season, just when we need it!

Agreed. It was a type of performance that didn’t rely on us doing everything perfectly but we stayed in the fight and ground it out. If Finn had been playing and we’d done that I’d be on cloud 9 right now but this is a step in the right direction.

Maro cited for his tackle on Barbeary.

I think he’s got a very clean slate but I can’t see how he’ll be playing in the next match at least

Someone break out the tier 1 biscuits! Not a great start to the week for us, hopefully it’s not upgraded, looked like first contact was shoulder/chest. Maro needs to get lower though and he’s got a bad record of yellows recently, might even give Care a run for his money!

Charlie Morgan has posted a clip to Twitter that I feel suggests that any contact was glancing at worst. You can also see a bend in the knees as Maro goes to effect the tackle. I'd think he's hard done by if it gets upgraded having watched that. I think Barbearys Geordie locks also make the contact look more impactful.

Incredible that of the big refereeing decisions this weekend, this is the one which is going to be deemed incorrect.

Agreed. I am really not convinced that this is a good use of the Citing Officer for an incident that was reviewed at the time by a top class ref and TMO. If the Citing officer is right it undermines the ref and TMO’s respective reputations and if he is wrong (which on the evidence I have seen, I think he is as there is plenty of mitigation) then it is all a complete waste of time. Citing only makes sense for something that was completely missed at the time or for a clear and obvious error - this is certainly neither of them and whichever the outcome damages the reputation of the sport.
As others have said there are plenty of other decisions that were far more questionable this weekend.

He’ll be in the utterly invidious position of choosing whether to plead guilty to limit a suspension or plead not guilty and hope they find in his favour. I’d call Luke Pearce as a witness!

I have zero faith in the process.
The one person who should definitely be up for a potential ban is Karl Dickson (possibly along with the idiot who appointed him to ref a Quins game).

Citing dismissed

[saracens.com]

Quote:

darktagnan
I have zero faith in the process.
The one person who should definitely be up for a potential ban is Karl Dickson (possibly along with the idiot who appointed him to ref a Quins game).

And also an honourable mention to whoever it was that added those last three entirely superfluous letters onto his surname.