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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:06:13:18:00:54 by Darraghgirl.

Sounds like Roti is actually available, he didn’t fail an HIA. We may well see Goodey again…
Saints really between a rock and a hard place. I cannot imagine they’ll do anything to diminish their chances next Saturday. Would hav3 thought Mitchell/Smith/Augustus/Freeman are irreplaceable for them .

I can’t imagine they’ll go anything but full first team, it then just becomes a mindset issue for them. You can’t play with half a mind on next week against a team who are desperate for a win, probably more likely to get injured that way. I imagine we’ll get the best of them though, it’s going to take something special to beat them.

Bookies have us as 6 point favourites which I think is mad.

Having said that, I imagine they’ll sub off their starters earlyish, so if we are still within touching distance on the 60 min mark we might be able to get over the line.

However we have also lost games this season against second string teams Castres and Quins comes to mind.

Very nervous for this game

Saints Team:-

15 James Ramm
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall (c)
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Tom Litchfield
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Emmanuel Iyogun
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison – 50th Saints appearance
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Tom Lockett
6 Alex Coles
7 Josh Kemeny
8 Henry Pollock

Replacements:
16 Craig Wright
17 Tarek Haffar
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Ed Prowse
20 Angus Scott-Young
21 Jonny Weimann
22 Jake Garside
23 Tom Seabrook

Not available for selection:
Juarno Augustus, George Furbank, Sam Graham, George Hendy, George Makepeace-Cubitt, Archie McParland, Burger Odendaal, Tom Pearson, Toby Thame, Charlie Savala, Ollie Sleightholme, Robbie Smith and Tom West.

1 Eroni Mawi
2 Jamie George
3 Marco Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Nick Isiekwe
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl
8 Tom Willis
9 Ivan van Zyl
10 Fergus Burke
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Alex Goode

Replacements:

16 Theo Dan
17 Phil Brantingham
18 Alec Clarey
19 Hugh Tizard
20 Theo McFarland
21 Andy Onyeama-Christie
22 Charlie Bracken
23 Angus Hall

Is Hartley not available at the moment? Good to see Riccioni and Brantingham back in the mix.

That’s gonna be a tough team to beat, but like you say they will sub off key players at regular intervals I think. Our team is looking strong, too, other than picking Goodey to start at FB.

Hello Fez folk, and safe trip up to those making the journey to FG tomorrow!

I think simply because this is critical to your league position that there is more motivation for you (not to say that we don't have motivation vs you guys, but you will get my point as our imperative is to tighten up ready for Cardiff) and also your pack looks proper tasty - about as good as it can be?

A question: will this be the last time that we see Alex G at FG, it would be nice to know if we are wishing him well for the last time.

ps bring sunnies, looks a fab day.

Quote:

Stumpy7780
Bookies have us as 6 point favourites which I think is mad

I expected them to come in a fair bit once the predictably strong Saints team was named but interestingly they don't appear to have.

From what I can see that's pretty much Saints full team minus injuries so they're definitely following the same pattern as before their European Semi-Final and keeping the first team sharp ahead of their European Final.

As always with us it just depends on how much we decide to play without the ball.
That isn't a selection built for that which gives me hope and whilst I appreciate the risk against a team like Saints we're just not winning the narrow games so have to be able to run in some points.

The team looks strong and Riccioni back is a big plus.
The pack looks good. I prefer George from the bench in terms of when we need the experience but a solid set piece is vital so get the start.

Without knowing what the injuries situation is it's hard to work out what it tactical and what enforced. It feels like injuries at centres are disrupting things in the backs. Against a game but outmatched Falcons Daly offered little in attack and was an issue in defence at 13 and Goode doesn't have the threat he did.
Both are classy players so hopefully this is a game they deliver.

Think with Hartley at the moment it is a matter of MMc preferring experience in the big games. Really hope he can tighten up his game and come back stronger next season, his potential is still enormous.
With games a bit more spread out it gives the older guys a bit more recovery time.

Team in transition:

Thought it would be interesting to compare the side playing tomorrow against the semi final side last year.

There is very limited “transition” in terms of player selection, whatever the coaches say each week about this being a “new group” - especially if you consider players who are currently injured and would be involved if they weren’t (Lozowski and Cinti). It’s not a new young and different group. It’s the basically same group, supplemented really by Fergus Burke, Tobias Elliot and (as of the last 2 weeks) Charlie B. Angus Hall wouldn’t be in the squad tomorrow if others were fit.


2025 // 2024

1Eroni Mawi // M Vunipola
2 Jamie George // George
3 Marco Riccioni // Riccioni
4 Maro Itoje (c) // Itoje
5 Nick Isiekwe // Isikwe
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez // Gonzalez
7 Ben Earl // Earl
8 Tom Willis // B Vunipola
9 Ivan van Zyl // van Zyl
10 Fergus Burke // Farrell
11 Rotimi Segun // Parton
12 Nick Tompkins // Tompkins
13 Elliot Daly // Cinti
14 Tobias Elliott // Lewington
15 Alex Goode // Daly

Replacements:

16 Theo Dan // Dan
17 Phil Brantingham // Mawi
18 Alec Clarey // Hoskins
19 Hugh Tizard // Tizard
20 Theo McFarland // McFarland
21 Andy Onyeama-Christie // Willis
22 Charlie Bracken // Davies
23 Angus Hall // Lozowski

I can’t see it being enough tomorrow against the side Northampton have put out. As usual we look short of real pace and real size in the backs. Nonetheless, here’s hoping that by tomorrow evening we’re in the competition. I guess at this point results are all that matters and we can worry about performance etc another time.

Quote:

riverlodge
A question: will this be the last time that we see Alex G at FG, it would be nice to know if we are wishing him well for the last time.

Officially nothing has been announced. Alex did suggest this would be his last season in a BBC interview much earlier in the season however. There have been rumors of negotiations between Alex and the club however.

if I had to guess I'd say this will be his last outing at the Gardens

Quote:

The Bard
Think with Hartley at the moment it is a matter of MMc preferring experience in the big games. Really hope he can tighten up his game and come back stronger next season, his potential is still enormous.
With games a bit more spread out it gives the older guys a bit more recovery time.

Seems like the perfect season where not much is expected to start him in the big games. I much prefer Daly at 15 too. I know a lot less than Smally though!

Question to those far wiser than me (statistically!) Has there ever been a wider disparity between a finalist team in the European Champions Cup and their relevant league position? Looking forward to the stato's input here. Obviously things look a little worse with a 10 team Prem but let's hear it and good luck to the boys at FG.

My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.

I'm begging her for one more try!

Saints got to the semi final the same years as they were relegated from the prem (as did we but relegated for different reasons) but not sure about finalists.

Quote:

riverlodge
Hello Fez folk, and safe trip up to those making the journey to FG tomorrow!
A question: will this be the last time that we see Alex G at FG, it would be nice to know if we are wishing him well for the last time.

Welcome, riverlodge. This is probably going to be Alex Goode's last season (very sad to be saying that) and he will probably not play the full 80. If that is the case it would be really good to hear the Saints fans applauding one of the truly great English club players as he leaves the field. I guess you know last week's match was his 400th for Saracens?

Quote:

riverlodge
Hello Fez folk, and safe trip up to those making the journey to FG tomorrow!
I think simply because this is critical to your league position that there is more motivation for you (not to say that we don't have motivation vs you guys, but you will get my point as our imperative is to tighten up ready for Cardiff) and also your pack looks proper tasty - about as good as it can be?

A question: will this be the last time that we see Alex G at FG, it would be nice to know if we are wishing him well for the last time.

ps bring sunnies, looks a fab day.

I am always heartened by posts like yours on opposition teams forums riverlodge. Restores my faith in rugby fans.
Not going to be at the gardens but have some fond memories and love the area too.

Who’s on your N/A list at the moment

Balmain, Carre, Loz, Cinti, Williams…?

Of those that would be potentially in a strong 23 that's about right TigerSimon. Timely returns from that list for Riccioni and Brantingham this weekend. Oddly this is arguably the best availability we've had all year!

When Riccionui crossed in front of the North Stand last Saturday, I thought he was limping a bit, but may be that's just his natural state of affairs towards the end of a hard season.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

I've always though Riccioni is one of those players (see: prop) who look knackered before they've even set foot on the pitch!

Quote:

#wolfpack1
Team in transition:
Thought it would be interesting to compare the side playing tomorrow against the semi final side last year.

There is very limited “transition” in terms of player selection, whatever the coaches say each week about this being a “new group” - especially if you consider players who are currently injured and would be involved if they weren’t (Lozowski and Cinti). It’s not a new young and different group. It’s the basically same group, supplemented really by Fergus Burke, Tobias Elliot and (as of the last 2 weeks) Charlie B. Angus Hall wouldn’t be in the squad tomorrow if others were fit.

Or another way to say it, over 25% of last year's semi final line-up are no longer with the squad, including the club captain and players who had served for a decade. And you can add in an extra two (Maitland & Judge) probably would have been involved if fit. Seems fairly transitional to me.

Quote:

AP
When Riccionui crossed in front of the North Stand last Saturday, I thought he was limping a bit, but may be that's just his natural state of affairs towards the end of a hard season.

Is that Marco's Fijian half-brother?

Propping is hard. Propping when there you have little opportunity to rest and rotate due top the paucity of other available options (Clarey excluded) increases the likelihood of playing injured and compounding that.
If he is still with us next season and has a proper no2/rotation first choice to swap with and they can stay fit I think we'll see Riccioni near his absolute best.

Whilst I agree that 25% turnover in squad is high enough to make a difference I'm not having the "transition year" narrative based on player change alone.
We really haven't developed our way of playing significantly over the last two seasons plus and that's coaching not, just, personnel.

On the game anything but a win and I'd say Top4 realistically gone. TBP really needed too given Sale switching off and gifting Bears 2 BPs.
Mathematically possible for sure but out of our hands.
Saints missing a few key players for them. Us about as strong as we've been for a while.
I feel very nervous but hope for a performance of intent and execution.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:11:32:15 by PaulHerox.

Good half against a Saints side who don’t look 100% mentally on it which is completely understandable. Need to keep up this intensity though, Saints can easily switch it on in the second half.

Once again our subs did nothing to ensure the game was one.
So disappointed, we are not good enough in the last 20 for what appears to be every game the last year or so.

Definitely a forward pass from Saints at the end. Really poor from the officials

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

Absolute bottle job by us. Don’t care about the ref decisions Saints took all of their players off. Don’t deserve to be in the playoffs frankly.

Luke Pearce you are a F**king disgrace.
80 minutes of trying to give Saints the game.
There's at least three legitimate turnovers not given in the last five minutes alone.

So proud of the team. Absolutely robbed.

Quote:

TommyKentish
Absolute bottle job by us. Don’t care about the ref decisions Saints took all of their players off. Don’t deserve to be in the playoffs frankly.

Well said, can’t blame the ref when you lose like that

That's an obscene lack of courage from the TMO and the referee. They just didn't want to disallow a home try based on what was a very clear and obvious forward pass.

How on earth can that happen without any severe subsequences to the officials?

Quote:

PaulHerox
Luke Pearce you are a F**king disgrace.
80 minutes of trying to give Saints the game.
There's at least three legitimate turnovers not given in the last five minutes alone.

So proud of the team. Absolutely robbed.

Have to disagree with your words, the lack of organisation from the subs was the major reason in my opinion. Same as it’s been in many games this year.

It was a forward pass... discuss otherwise.

Sarries may not be good enough for the finals but with the TV technology we now have no wonder supporters get frustrated.

Game management would not have been questioned if Sarries had won

I'm certainly going to be taking some calm breaths, a couple of hours and maybe another rewatch before I decide what I think of that.

Quote:

TommyKentish
Absolute bottle job by us. Don’t care about the ref decisions Saints took all of their players off. Don’t deserve to be in the playoffs frankly.

"Bottle job" is the last thing I'd suggest.
The players obviously put a huge amount into the first 40 and then were struggling to sustain it.
We probably don't deserve the play-offs based on the season but how on earth is a pass/offload over no distance coming out of the hands facing forward not a forward pass?

Pearce set his stall out early warning Saracens players for calling for turnovers after he allowed Saints two breakdowns to hold on whilst a legal player had the ball.
He continued that through the game. Players with release, on their feet and on the ball. No penalty.
We dominate their feed on the scrum and push them back he let's them play away.
They do the same to us and he gives them a penalty.

He tried to award two Saints non-trys and managed with one.
Well done him, hope he enjoys the keys to the Town. He certainly earned them.

Quote:

Paxton sarrie
It was a forward pass... discuss otherwise.
...
Game management would not have been questioned if Sarries had won

Agree.
I also think you make a good point about game management.

If that general performance, mainly the first 50 is what we can take as a blueprint for next season that would be great.

We also got away with a few. Notably IVZ tackling Litchfield on the floor in front of the tryline.

We lost that to a team with their 4th choice scrum half and no recognised 10. I don’t criticise the effort but we shrunk into ourselves and it felt inevitable at the end. At the end of the day the ref should be taken out of the equation, especially when you’re 7-24 up against a team missing as many players as Saints were by the end.

Both reverse angles show the ball goes forward from the hand and the receiver is in front.
Bracken on the wing sees it and signals it has gone forward.
I don’t like criticising match officials but…

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:17:21:54 by Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. .

Quote:

TommyKentish
We also got away with a few. Notably IVZ tackling Litchfield on the floor in front of the tryline.
We lost that to a team with their 4th choice scrum half and no recognised 10. I don’t criticise the effort but we shrunk into ourselves and it felt inevitable at the end. At the end of the day the ref should be taken out of the equation, especially when you’re 7-24 up against a team missing as many players as Saints were by the end.

Saracens lost for two primary reasons;

1. A craven referee
2. IVZ slowing the ball down and kicking poor box kicks over and over.

While I agree with point 1, in IVZ’s defence he has the best kicking stats in the league and Elliot succeeded in regaining possession on several occasions.

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

Quote:

TommyKentish
We also got away with a few. Notably IVZ tackling Litchfield on the floor in front of the tryline.
We lost that to a team with their 4th choice scrum half and no recognised 10. I don’t criticise the effort but we shrunk into ourselves and it felt inevitable at the end. At the end of the day the ref should be taken out of the equation, especially when you’re 7-24 up against a team missing as many players as Saints were by the end.

I feel that losing JMG in the first half and then Andy O-C with the penalty try were the main reasons we lost.

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

There were positives with great commitment in the tackle for the first 50 minutes meaning that we dominated the tackle area - in those circumstances you can afford to kick it away as you know you are going to get it back. But very disappointed with the work rate of some of the replacements and our tackling became more passive which enabled Saints to make more offloads. Kicking the ball away so repeatedly in those circumstances is simply asking for trouble and that is what we got.
I am also clear that the first pass from 13, although short in distance, was clearly forward with hands pointing forward and the player in front of him. It was obvious from most angles so how the TMO and Pearce concluded otherwise even after numerous replays is beyond me and makes a mockery of the whole competition.
To be honest I am not that devastated as I don’t think that we are nearly good enough to beat Bath away in a semi final.
I was quite impressed with Tobias and Fergus in the backs and oh we missed Tom Willis when he went off as he is a great wrecker of opposition ball.

Despite our options on the bench taking Willis off is mad to me. AOC is still working his way back from injury so it’s completely understandable he’s not at his best yet. Tobias was class, brilliant kick chase today, caused issues all match and it made sense to continue box kicking IMO.

Agree ComeOnSarries.

Burke's play in the first half was brilliant. Wrap around plays and good distribution playing super flat to the line. I also thought Van-Zyl was vital in that great attacking tempo in that first 50.

Elliott looks like he's going to be a star. He's obviously got massive potential but we've seen how much he's improved in defence especially partially to exposure at this level.

It's brutal but there's still a vague chance for Top4 in a fortnight in which case none of Goode, Tizard or Christie in the 23 please.
Goode's wonderful fielding of Smith's kick and return aside made bad decisions, running the ball back in space with Segun outside you and you try and take on the defence? FishFingerSandwich!
Tizard has been stealing a living for seasons.
Christie has done brilliantly to return from injury but he's badly out of form and if fit Knight over him is an easy call.
Not blaming him for the PT though. Another Pearce "Special"
Not under penalty warning. No recent penalties in that area of the field. First player in marginally at the side and he PTs and yellows. If you can find another example of that in his last 5 years of refereeing I'd be amazed.

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
To be honest I am not that devastated as I don’t think that we are nearly good enough to beat Bath away in a semi final.

If we miss Top4 and that seems very likely I think I agree.
Top4 would have been a sop to "transition season" blah, blah.
Whereas the style of rugby we've been playing it why we're where we are.

Shame that makes it a repetition of last season. Would be great if we learn something from this.

As others have said garbage performances with no ambition in attack against Falcons and Quins twice are what have cost us at the end of the day.

What history has Luke Pearce got with Saracens?

Has he any club affiliations?

Quote:

PaulHerox
Agree ComeOnSarries.
Burke's play in the first half was brilliant. Wrap around plays and good distribution playing super flat to the line. I also thought Van-Zyl was vital in that great attacking tempo in that first 50.

Elliott looks like he's going to be a star. He's obviously got massive potential but we've seen how much he's improved in defence especially partially to exposure at this level.

It's brutal but there's still a vague chance for Top4 in a fortnight in which case none of Goode, Tizard or Christie in the 23 please.
Goode's wonderful fielding of Smith's kick and return aside made bad decisions, running the ball back in space with Segun outside you and you try and take on the defence? FishFingerSandwich!
Tizard has been stealing a living for seasons.
Christie has done brilliantly to return from injury but he's badly out of form and if fit Knight over him is an easy call.
Not blaming him for the PT though. Another Pearce "Special"
Not under penalty warning. No recent penalties in that area of the field. First player in marginally at the side and he PTs and yellows. If you can find another example of that in his last 5 years of refereeing I'd be amazed.

From about 10mins to 50 mins I thought that Burke was playing as well as he has all season and we looked great ball in hand.

Knight is out for the season, I wouldn’t want to drop AOC anyway, I think he needs the confidence long term.

We really need to start trusting more of the youngsters in the backs. Bracken x 2, Hartley, Hall all need to be backed like Elliott has been. Saints are showing what can be done backing young players to play without fear.

3 initial comments:

1. Obviously the forward pass is a disgraceful call — why should our season be ended with no consequences for the officials. Saying that, it’s our own fault that we left it in Luke Pearces gift. It shouldn’t have been that close.

2. Squad selection and substitutions -
- a 6:2 split when Segun is playing is just pure stupidity. We’ve done it 2 times before today - Quins at home, Newcastle at home - and each time he’s gone off injured and we’ve had to go to plan D or E. This week, low and behold, he goes off and we finish the game with C Bracken on the wing.
- the coaches just make subs by numbers. Tom Willis .. why is he taken off? Why? Our scrum was well on top for 45-50 mins… why take off Eroni and Jamie? Is it just because it says 50 mins on the clock? It all went downhill from there.

3. Players playing by numbers -
I just want to pick up on the comments on the box kicks above. Yes Tobias did well. But for the turnover to give them the ball at the end, he was chasing by himself. Literally by himself. No backrow support at all. So he caught it, made a break…. And was very very isolated. Why aren’t the players organising or at least recognising he’s by himself before just deciding “oh we’re in this part of the field… therefore we box kick”? Similarly the maddest thing I saw today was IVZ box kicking for Charlie Bracken to chase! Charlie Bracken! A 5ft 9 scrum half. It’s stupid.

Actually 4 points-
Agree with the comments above about how ineffective some of our subs are. Tizard came to us with so much potential. He’s just a bit of a soft lump- he was even trying to tap tackle someone from a restart. What’s that about?? ******g smash him Tiz! Some of these boys are paper tigers - on paper we have a great pack of forwards -possibly best in the league. In practice we’re gonna finish in the lower half of the table.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:17:18:20:42 by #wolfpack1.

I don’t think we deserve to be in playoffs after the losses to Falcons, chiefs and Quins at home.

First 50 was great, but we lost momentum as JMG and then Tom went off. How many times did we look like scoring in the second half, other than the actual try? Quick ball and intensity in first half is how we should be playing next season and give Fergus the keys to the game. Tobias is class, I think we all know that.

I think Tiz played well until his ban and AOC until his horrific injury - neither have been the same since back, understandably. Goode should not have started, despite the try, would’ve played Ollie at 12 or Angus at 13, with Daly at FB.

Yes, it was a forward pass at end, but so was Daly’s pass for our 3rd. I think Davidson should’ve had a yellow, though.

I am hopeful for next season IF we put faith in form/young players and play a quick game.

And why oh why did Saints continue with Langdon and Ramm until their injuries got worse? Other than pride and a send off to the fans, it was a dead rubber when they have the Champions final next Saturday. Very odd.

This is so hard to write about because of the significance and nature of the loss.
I'm looking now at our season as a whole and feel less angst ridden about the outcome.
There's little point in getting exercised about the outcome of one game frustrating as that is .
Saracens have been a mighty force for many years in rugby union and these things ebb and flow - true supporters keep the faith and, yes, voice their frustrations from time to time.
Let's move on, all rock up to Stone X for the Bath game and shout them out of the stadium.
Keep the faith

My wife has told me that she's considering ending our marriage due to my utter obsession with rugby.

I'm begging her for one more try!

Quote:

Happy Sarrie
There's little point in getting exercised about the outcome of one game frustrating as that is .

Not sure I agree.

Whilst today wasn’t the reason we’re finishing in the lower half of the table, the fact that we were in complete control winning 24-7 with 30 mins to go against a team taking off all their best players... and lost - this is a reason to be frustrated.

Just got back from FG, nice to have to go and see all my saints friends after that one! one of my friends stated it was the flattest pass hes ever seen!

oh dear i think that getting nothing from the Sale game is what has really put us in the bind... some big thinking in the off season, i cant see us getting anywhere near 4th now its all mathmatical..

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

Strange game isn’t it. I was listening to the Pearce/Richards show on reflink thinking that they were giving Saracens everything. Maybe we got lucky at the death, we’ll take it nonetheless.

Do George and Goode understand that they are not Captain - leave the chat to Maro.

Our 2nd half performance was abject. Punched ourselves out first 40 and as always likes fo Tizard and Macafrlane show pony around.

I've watched it again and if anything it's worse the second time.
Pearce referred the breakdown, lineout and scrum differently for home and away.
At least three big swing moments where we had totally legal jackallers with hands on and he let Saints players hold then support clear including two in the minutes leading up to their last try.
When we had @#$%& dominance he gave the same Saints prop 3 warnings with no further sanction. Iyogun goes to knee at the next scrum no call from AR.
There's also two big no-arms, shoulder first clear outs on Mawi by Iyogun and another Saints player, Kement maybe? on Willis. Both are direct head contact both no looked at despite Saracens players being down.

But ...

Quote:

#wolfpack1
... the fact that we were in complete control winning 24-7 with 30 mins to go against a team taking off all their best players... and lost - this is a reason to be frustrated.

Agreed 100%.
The two obvious questions are why we lost so much control and what if anything we can do about it.

I think our riches in the backrow makes us a adopt a Pokemon attitude, "got to pick them all" but the reality is Willis is the glue that makes it work and we simply have no one else like him (and nor does any other club)
He doesn't have to stay at 8 maybe but he sure needs to stay on the field unless injured. We certainly need a plan for when either we don't have him or he's off.
We moved him to lock previously when the subs came on and that worked well.

As said above some of he subs feel wrote but equally with starters flagging you get the logic. Not the coaches fault a few too many of them were no shows.

Why on earth have we started taking Willis off the last few weeks
He was yet again the best player on the pitch by a country mile today, with Christie coming on and being so far off the pace

Quote:

PaulHerox
I think our riches in the backrow makes us a adopt a Pokemon attitude, "got to pick them all" but the reality is Willis is the glue that makes it work and we simply have no one else like him (and nor does any other club)

I think this is right.

The mad 6-2 bench and the substitution of Tom feels like an effort to crowbar Christie onto the pitch. As much as we all like him and wish him well - especially after his injury - it doesn’t do us any favours at all.

Wasn’t Willis injured? Certainly looked that way when he went off. So frustrating after our best 50 minutes of the season. Big Theo is an enigma. Some great highlights reel stuff but we just need some more physicality. Sadly AOC hasn’t made any impact since his comeback, hardly surprising given the severity of what happened.
I thought Goodey was excellent, and we certainly won the aerial contest.
The 6-2 is something I struggle with, particularly with Roti playing. We failed to take our warnings.
But how on earth can a ref of Luke Pearce’s standing allow himself to be associated with a decision like that? Knowing full well the ramifications of it.

Quote:

PaulHerox
Agree ComeOnSarries.
Burke's play in the first half was brilliant. Wrap around plays and good distribution playing super flat to the line. I also thought Van-Zyl was vital in that great attacking tempo in that first 50.

Elliott looks like he's going to be a star. He's obviously got massive potential but we've seen how much he's improved in defence especially partially to exposure at this level.

It's brutal but there's still a vague chance for Top4 in a fortnight in which case none of Goode, Tizard or Christie in the 23 please.
Goode's wonderful fielding of Smith's kick and return aside
made bad decisions, running the ball back in space with Segun outside you and you try and take on the defence? FishFingerSandwich!
Tizard has been stealing a living for seasons.
Christie has done brilliantly to return from injury but he's badly out of form and if fit Knight over him is an easy call.
Not blaming him for the PT though. Another Pearce "Special"
Not under penalty warning. No recent penalties in that area of the field. First player in marginally at the side and he PTs and yellows. If you can find another example of that in his last 5 years of refereeing I'd be amazed.

No recent penalties in that area of the field? Other than the penalty try that should have been given 15 seconds prior.

I think we lost leadership when Jamie went off.

Also, I agree that our bench had absolutely no impact on the game, whereas the Saints' bench won them the game.

Lots for Mark to ponder on. Reading his comments on the BBC report, he is not a happy man.

Finally the one thing that absolutely shocked me is our lack of fitness. Historically, we have been strong in the last quarter; today we were shot.

Fitness and S&C is Phil Morrows bag, has he already clocked off?
Why haven’t we announced a replacement yet?
Very worrying times for next season with very limited player recruitment aswell

Quote:

David@Sarries
Lots for Mark to ponder on. Reading his comments on the BBC report, he is not a happy man.

He’s not been a happy man before. His interview post Castres was angrier than the one yesterday.

It’s all very well being angry but he’s not immune from criticism. He needs to learn from his mistakes as well. The team/bench selection and substitutions have been wrong all season and they were wrong again yesterday.

This season we’ve just done the same thing again and again and just expected a different result.

It all feels a bit comfortable and there appears to be very limited accountability- both on the playing side and the coaching side - for poor performance.

Feel our modus operandi all season has been to get a lead and then revert to anti rugby to try to hold a lead , problem we have is the squad hasn't proven it can do that for 18 months.for all talk of a rebuild Elliot and Burke aside its been same players. It needs a proper rebuild and some fresh experienced players to hold people accountable.
Resigning the same players and not freshening it up is a huge mistake. We need some horrible south African types as we are too nice.
Giving IVZ a new contract blows my mind as he offers limited control and there has to be better in world rugby.

We should have put that game out of Northampton’s reach but couldn’t.

The officials should have ruled out Northampton’s last try for a blatant forward pass (offload) by Dingwall, but astonishingly they couldn’t see it. I cannot fathom how.

Despite our form over the course of the season we should, nevertheless, be 4th on 54 points.

When a horrible decision by the officials gets made early in a game there is the obvious potential to overcome it for the rest of the game. When it happens in the last play of the game, you are well and truly <insert your choice of word here>.

Not sure how people are judging AOC on 7 minutes of game time?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, how many of you on 65 minutes were saying leave Willis on?

One assumes that the S&C data or a recommendation from the S&C regarding a knock Tom is carrying is the reason why he’s being restricted to 3/4 of a match and has been on the bench a couple of times recently!

Quote:

#wolfpack1
This season we’ve just done the same thing again and again and just expected a different result.

I agree.
The reality is whilst Shaw's gameplan remains the same we won't progress.
He needs to go or enable it to evolve. We show in glimpses what the players are capable of when given freedom but we're still reticent to embrace that style of play.
When you look at how Sanderson has things going at Sale he might be the biggest part of the puzzle we are missing.

Van-Zyl is probably the clearest crystallisation of that.
I believe he is a brilliant player. He shows that he can play at tempo and had both a good kicking and passing game. He's very good defensively and often runs great support.
How we use him mainly makes him look terrible and he's to good a "company" man to say why the flip are we doing this?

A day later and whilst the referees performance is a bit of a red herring in a game where we should have controlled our destiny Pearce was woeful.
First twenty five minutes and he's got 4 breakdowns clearly wrong. The only common theme, Saracens penalised, Saints rewarded.

well game started 24 hours ago but mighty frustrated at it all. not at the final try but do remember saints had as a few times and we were lucky to escape our rear guard action its not just the players that went of to who came on, the whole style changed which i can only assume came from the coaches

Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

Quote:

Sans Culottes
No recent penalties in that area of the field? Other than the penalty try that should have been given 15 seconds prior.

Sorry you're right Goode's early contact in the air. It's a penalty but under what law was it a penalty try. I'll give you a clue. None.

When did you last see a referee go straight to a card and PT in that situation without a team under multiple warnings?

Oh and Davidson's is a yellow card all day long.
The act of making a tackle is foul play as it's a shoulder with no wrap so there's no mitigation. Yellow.
Even Pearce shouldn't be able to mitigate that with his fictional "passive contact" if he actually does his job but as we know he didn't.

Can you really be penalised for "entry" in open play, ie no ruck? he decided you could.
Miss your first attempt at jackalling the ball because the player on the ground is holding on then placing it? That's hands on the floor? Then let the Saints player who has overun the play clear from the side ...

Congrats to Saints for the comeback but we did throw it away and I'm sure for one of their trys we had one of our guys on the ball for a turnover and the ref didn't give it. We have lost a lot of experience and some of the game management on the pitch that goes with it in the last parts of the game. Impressed with Maro but we need a few more vocal members of the team.

Faz would have managed the game but I love the look of Fergus and his pace makes him a threat. I wasn't expecting a lot this year and the play offs would have been a bonus, with Tiz he has the potential but is a bit inconsistent. I can see him coming good and Joel K would be an interesting addition. I would like us to shore up the scrum a bit.

We have some great players coming through and we are in a healthy place. I know it's frustrating but if we can maintain that playing style in the first half then we can compete with anyone. Saw glimpses of it against Toulon as well.