Sarries v Clemont: please post match related comment here

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:16:18:17:12 by Darraghgirl.

Thanks for the preview. Some good memories in these matches, the semi final in 2015 was I think the 3rd match I ever watched of Sarries and I remember really thinking that the lad playing 6 for us looked pretty special, where does the time go…

I’m surprised you think Faz shouldn’t continue at 10, I thought he was good there v Bath and if nothing else his kicking for sticks could be a difference maker in a must win match for us. In Europe especially I’m not sure I want to see him at 12.

In reality this comp is beyond us this season, I’m hoping for some good performances (maybe so experience for the likes of Michelow if Willis is injured and Earl is on holiday) before a real make or break fixture v top of the table Exeter.

It’s not such a group of death for Clermont, as they don’t have to play Toulouse and will benefit from them taking points off all their rivals. I’m not sure Sale will offer us the same service at the moment.
My abiding memory of Clermont is actually the 2012 quarter final at Vicarage Road. We were in Ask on Vicarage Road an hour before KO and heard an almighty commotion outside. It was the massed ranks of Clermont fans with their band leading the way completely filling up the road. They took over the South Stand and it was literally bouncing from first minute until well after the game.
They beat us relatively comfortably on the pitch, but off it were in a totally different league.
I’ve still never seen anything like it .

The other memory is a shirtless Vinnie Koch in the defensive line Stade Marcel-Michelin, a props worst nightmare!

When you're built like Koch is/was it's not that much of a concern.

That snow bedecked rescheduled match would have been one of my favourites ever if the actual game hadn't been such a humping. The Clermont fans with their suitcases in the East stand aisles and general good cheer despite an extended weekend meaning some a difficult trip home for many.

It'll be interesting to see both the team Clermont send and the one we field.
The rotation suggested elsewhere could be as simple as heavily worked players like JMG, Earl, Riccioni, etc getting the week off or a more comprehensive rotation although you'd hope that might be saved for the away game in SA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:12:04:17:28:28 by PaulHerox.

Sale have got 5 England Internationals injured at the moment (Ford, Roebuck, Carpenter, AOF & Rodd) plus Luke James, Dugdale and Dan du Preez.
Can’t see them beating Glasgow at home tomorrow evening then they have a trip to Clermont and also to Toulouse in the NY so could see them and Sharks propping up the table, so Saracens should be aiming for 3rd. Advantage of knowing what you have to do against Glasgow in the last pool game too.

I would imagine that most of the players will actually want to travel to SA as some warm weather training would make a very pleasant change. The high 20s C would be perfect for t shirts and shorts!

Well Etzebeth rightly misses all the European Pools games.

12 match ban, mitigated down from 18, intentional but only mid-range.

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ComeOnSarries
I would imagine that most of the players will actually want to travel to SA as some warm weather training would make a very pleasant change. The high 20s C would be perfect for t shirts and shorts!

Combined jolly/away game in the finest traditions of Saracens.
Lots of fancy dress and team-bonding and fewer drinking games that end in lawsuits hopefully.

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tigersimon
Well Etzebeth rightly misses all the European Pools games.
12 match ban, mitigated down from 18, intentional but only mid-range.

An outrageously lenient sentence. Got mitigation for admitting to unintentionally contacting the when he was found guilty on intentionally doing it. Absolute joke.

I too have fond memories of the Clermont supporters, not least in the 2012 match at the Vic. I was in the South Stand as Sarries took a pounding, and the Clermont supporters chanted 'Sorry, sorry' a lovely bit of French mickey taking. I also recall the SF at Twickers when we returned the favour with a handsome victory, thanks in part to a generous penalty try. The Clermont supporters never stopped cheering and chanting.The same in the 2017 final. They really are a special group.

One of my greatest away days was Clermont at St Etienne, 12 hours in a mini bus the day before and we lost but the Clermont fans before and after the game were second to none. Always had a soft spot for them since

Saracens Men team to play Clermont Auvergne:

1 Rhys Carre

2 James Hadfield

3 Marcus Street

4 Nick Isiekwe

5 Hugh Tizard

6 Theo McFarland

7 Andy Onyeama-Christie

8 Tom Willis

9 Ivan van Zyl (c)

10 Owen Farrell

11 Max Malins

12 Nick Tompkins

13 Lucio Cinti

14 Noah Caluori

15 Elliot Daly

Replacements:

16 Theo Dan

17 Eroni Mawi

18 Marco Riccioni

19 Harry Wilson

20 Nathan Michelow

21 Charlie Bracken

22 Fergus Burke

23 Rotimi Segun

Are we to take from the last two selections that Burke is no longer our first choice fly half?

I am guessing that tomorrow’s team means that Itoje’s injury for England was more than a niggle.
Pleased to see that we have a pretty strong bench and that the back division has been given a second week together. Would someone post the Clermont team and how strong it is as French teams do vary quite a lot? I think we have gone as strong as we could within the constraints of enforced rest and injuries.

[www.asm-rugby.com] Can’t figure out how to insert a picture from my phone.

8 changes, I’m not familiar with a lot of them but I wasn’t with Castres either!

Liking our team, I thought Hadfield and Street liked good last week, deserved starters and plenty of impact off the bench with Dan and Riccioni. Great to see AOC back and Willis not badly injured. Hopefully Theo M brings the same level as last week.

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#wolfpack1
Are we to take from the last two selections that Burke is no longer our first choice fly half?

I doubt it. The rest of this selection screams "rotation" so I'd imagine we'd be back to a Burke/Farrell 10/12 if/when we go full noise.

I always felt Faz at 12 was because of injuries/unavailability in the centres. We’ve now got a lot of them back, hopefully we’ll see Hartley and Spink get chances if Tompkins or Cinti are out.

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Roger G

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#wolfpack1
Are we to take from the last two selections that Burke is no longer our first choice fly half?

I doubt it. The rest of this selection screams "rotation" so I'd imagine we'd be back to a Burke/Farrell 10/12 if/when we go full noise.

I hope you’re right. Because if Lozowski comes back in we’d have managed to “transition” our team back to 2021.

I also thought Burke was playing very well this season and we were looking quite good with both in the same team.

Referee: Hollie Davidson (Sco)
ARs: Ru Campbell (Sco) & Jonny Mackenzie (Sco)
TMO: Mike Adamson (Sco)

CLERMONT TEAM

15 Axel Guillaud
14 Lucas Tauzin
13 Alex Newsome
12 Irae Simone
11Bautista Delguy
10 Harry Plummer
9 Baptiste Jauneau (c)

1Sacha Lotrian
2 Etienne Fourcade
3 Cristian Ojovan
4 Thibaud Lanen
5 Tevita Ratuva
6 Antoine Chalus-Cercy
7 Anthime Hemery
8 Selevasio Tolofua

Replacements
16 Tom Belkessa
17 Matheo Frisach
18 Giorgi Dzmanashvili
19 Rob Simmons
20 Leo Michaux
21 Sebastien Bezy
22 George Moala
23 Lucas Dessaigne

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TommyKentish
8 changes, I’m not familiar with a lot of them but I wasn’t with Castres either!

^This although I am oddly reassured that they seem to have signed a 80's policeman from the Flying Squad to play 10 for them.

I really like that. Happy with the focus on the Prem this season and that 23 feels like a nod to that.
Definitely a rotation squad and yet a strong one and keeping some units that have played together recently mainly in the backs. It would be good to see Cinti get more ball this week too and to see to what degree our tactics with Caluori have changed to accommodate the way Bath/Arundell dealt with him last week.

If dirtybertie is right the Chiefs game will give us an idea if the pecking order at 10 has changed.

Clermont significantly changed from their impressive home win over Stade last weekend. New front row entirely. Will still be strong and I do hope we are paying them full respect unlike Castres last year with disastrous results.

Bookies have us as 16 point favourites

just as well that I don't bet

First half tries for Cinti (x2), Malins and Hadfield give us the BP before half time

Excellent refereeing

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Good win in the end. Let’s not forget what can happen in this comp against rotated French teams. Much like last week our new (or catching up with the others) keep the ball alive attack working well particularly in the first half but maybe dropping off in intensity in the second. A better team like Bath can take advantage of that.

Tizard deserving of the MOTM, he looks like he’s enjoying the attack but also was excellent in maul defence which according to Keyser is a big strength of Clermont. A lot of positive attacking coming via Noah again, his try was fantastic though, so good to have a wing with proper gas. The Faz, Daly and Malins triumvirate is always great to watch too. Big scrum all the way through too, not sure about how first choice the Clermont pack was though.

Interesting to see how we line up v Sharks, potentially a chance to nick a win and our last two matches in the group are very tough. But then we have Chiefs at home which is crucial for our prem season.

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boomer!
Excellent refereeing

Absolutely agree. Some numpty behind me kept shouting "you're a disgraceful ref" particularly after ASM's second try where the ball was clearly dropped backwards (NOT forwards) before being grounded....as pointed out by Holly on the ref mic.

Agree he dropped it backwards but when he subsequently grounded it he was on the floor so can he play the ball legally? Thought the refereeing was great in general though.

Whilst Clermont were a pale shadow of the team that bullied us at Vicarage Road many years ago I was very pleased with the quality and intensity of our defence that meant that Clermont very rarely made progress through the tackle area. There were some moments of high quality from the Sarries side eg the first try was the direct result of an excellent kick ahead by Daly. Thought Farrell varied the attack nicely from 10 with both passing and kicking options. Lovely open field try by Noah and then a comic error by CA to give Theo Dan a gift of a try at the end . 7 tries to 2 is a good start. I can see us looking to put out a strong side in SA to give us the chance of a win away from home.

Some people on this forum may not like it but big Tiz played really well and was everywhere today, well deserved MotM. The ref was also great. Lovely tries by Noah and Max, and Cinti had no right to score his second.

A great home win, you have to win your home matches and try and get something from your away games in this comp. But to be fair, CA were not at their best today. Enjoy the beers today lads, next week will be very tough.

I’m sure I’ll be hung drawn and quartered for saying this, but I just can’t get too excited by that performance today.

There were absolutely undoubted positives.

But I thought the 37 point win flattered us against one of the worst teams I’ve seen at the SX since we’ve been there.

Absolutely don’t think 37 points flattered us. We easily could have had 3-4 more in the first half, in reality we kept them at arms length throughout.
Noah being used around the field a lot more than previously. Daly excellent, we really do need to keep him on board.

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The Bard
Absolutely don’t think 37 points flattered us. We easily could have had 3-4 more in the first half, in reality we kept them at arms length throughout.
Noah being used around the field a lot more than previously. Daly excellent, we really do need to keep him on board.

A more measured first response than I expected to my post bard so thank you.

Not sure I agree that we could have had three or four more tho. Also remember that cinti first try came from a bit of a lucky bounce, as did maxs including some horrific defensive play by them Definitely we kept them at arms length but only for me coz they offered jack rather than us doing a great deal to keep them out.

Agreed Noah was used much much better. We give that boy the ball in space and he’s going to cause issues for any side. Not just rely on the kick chase, which for me were still doing too much.

And yeah agreed again Daly was very good. Would agree that if have him on a short term deal if they were on reduced terms. I hope we’ve learnt by now what hanging on to “club legends” for too long does. Also we’ve got a plethora of back three players that for me are exceptionally talented and need playing.

Tizzard played well but we didnt really excel imo aside from Noahs try which was a beauty.
However our lack.of a ball carriers except for TW showed again , was a solid win against very poor opposition .

Quote:

ComeOnSarries
I can see us looking to put out a strong side in SA to give us the chance of a win away from home.

The chap who sits two up from me and reckons to know says we are sending the lads to SA next week. Guess we will have to wait and see.

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nicsue

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ComeOnSarries
I can see us looking to put out a strong side in SA to give us the chance of a win away from home.

The chap who sits two up from me and reckons to know says we are sending the lads to SA next week. Guess we will have to wait and see.

Define “the lads” please and thank you

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Stonexjim
I’m sure I’ll be hung drawn and quartered for saying this, but I just can’t get too excited by that performance today.
There were absolutely undoubted positives.

But I thought the 37 point win flattered us against one of the worst teams I’ve seen at the SX since we’ve been there.

I think we were well worth the points but agree we shouldn’t get carried away. It was similar level to how we played against Bath but lesser opposition. Definite positives and the attack is getting there.

Also can we give Bracken more than 8 mins...

Quote:

JK12
Tizzard played well but we didnt really excel imo aside from Noahs try which was a beauty.
However our lack.of a ball carriers except for TW showed again , was a solid win against very poor opposition .

Agree with this.

Tizzard played well - especially in maul D. Scrum went very well. McFarland showed well for second game in a row

Otherwise I thought a very poor game generally. I agree with SXJ that the score flattered us but then Clermont were absolutely dreadful. I’m never sure how we’re going about trying to score except for a kick and hope for a good bounce. Our ball remains slow and line breaks remain hard to find. Still… Clermont were worse. Far far worse.

Quote:

JK12
Also can we give Bracken more than 8 mins...

On the wing!

Absolutely mad he didn’t come on when the game was won at half time. Can anyone explain the logic??

Ultimately you can only beat the side that's put up and we did so comfortably although not ruthlessly.

Can only echo the comments about the quality of Hollie Davidson's refereeing. Great communication and she seemed to get all the bigger calls right.

I thought Clermont showed some spirit in defence especially the first half and dealt with Willis well in particular but offered very little in attack to really test our side.

A number of good performances but with the slight caveat re quality of opposition. Tizard rightly MotM. If he can put in performances like that v decent opposition that will be great.
Good to see Onyeama-Christie have a strong game in defence and attack and Segun returning.
Also really good to see some variation in how we use Caluori. Maybe we need him to play a touch deeper in attack if we're going to keep chucking huge miss passes to him on the wing as he seemed to over-run quite a few which was robbing him of momentum. Good performance though.

It'll be interesting to see who makes the high veldt for next week or if we're giving some players a longer lay off. I'd be happy with todays team going again with maybe a little rotation.

I hate being overly negative but that Clermont team were dire, summed up by a lineout that couldn't throw beyond #2, a front row whose synchronised collapse of a scrum was beyond hilarious, backs who didn't have a single play to show all game, and a kicker who made my putting look like precision engineering. Our premiership cup team would have given them a game.

Pleased to hear Tiz got MotM; we said how well he was playing, though we're still not utilising his Quins skill of offloading in contact after breaching the gain line, too often with no-one on his shoulder - Andy Saul where are you?. I watched Big Theo for 10 minutes around 70 - full of energy, heavy hits then up ready for the next play, rinse, repeat. Thought he was physical again throughout. Street good too, though sensed he took another knock. Sadly, Max was dreadful in my view, no pace and dreadful missed simple tackle the lowlights.

Our defensive energy suffocated most of their attacks. They showed enough defensively to show they were a far better side than many are giving us/them credit for.
Max certainly poor for their first try but good going forward.
Cinti took a knock, hence Bracken on the wing and maybe needing to keep cover in hand was why Charlie didn’t get on earlier.
And there will be no high veld, Durban is on the coast thankfully!

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Stonexjim

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nicsue

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ComeOnSarries
I can see us looking to put out a strong side in SA to give us the chance of a win away from home.

The chap who sits two up from me and reckons to know says we are sending the lads to SA next week. Guess we will have to wait and see.

Define “the lads” please and thank you

Sorry, my bad, the young lads.

No High Veld but 9 hours on a plane each way. We NEED to beat Exeter at home the week after.

Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

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siNBin
No High Veld but 9 hours on a plane each way. We NEED to beat Exeter at home the week after.

Short of bringing Concorde out of retirement you won’t get there in 9! More like 13 direct or 20 indirect

I’m not sure even Nigel Wray’s pockets are that deep!

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TommyKentish
Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

I think once a player goes above 118-120kgs then you are in diminishing returns territory for every extra kg you weigh. There are some exceptions of course, particularly for props, but in the main, if you're >120kgs then you are too heavy to perform as effectively as you would be at <120kgs.

Quote:

Toga

Quote:

TommyKentish
Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

I think once a player goes above 118-120kgs then you are in diminishing returns territory for every extra kg you weigh. There are some exceptions of course, particularly for props, but in the main, if you're >120kgs then you are too heavy to perform as effectively as you would be at <120kgs.

I think I've read somewhere that he deliberately bulked up but it didn't help so he's lost it all again.

Quote:

The Bard
And there will be no high veld, Durban is on the coast thankfully!

Good point. Hopefully we perform equally well on the low veldt.

Quote:

PaulHerox
Ultimately you can only beat the side that's put up and we did so comfortably although not ruthlessly.
Can only echo the comments about the quality of Hollie Davidson's refereeing. Great communication and she seemed to get all the bigger calls right..

I would like to think she is in with a shout at being a referee at RWC 2027

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Quote:

Stonexjim
... one of the worst teams I’ve seen at the SX since we’ve been there.

Most of the rest were in Saracens kit.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Quote:

TommyKentish

Quote:

tigersimon
Well Etzebeth rightly misses all the European Pools games.
12 match ban, mitigated down from 18, intentional but only mid-range.

An outrageously lenient sentence. Got mitigation for admitting to unintentionally contacting the when he was found guilty on intentionally doing it. Absolute joke.

+1 No disrespect to the Clermont supporters; no respect to the eye-gouging thug.....nor to be fair, any respect to the judging panel, who should have been able to comprehend the meaning of their own judgement.

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boomer!
Excellent refereeing

I thought so too - with one massive caveat - the time she took to re-set scrums which was really old-school (circa 2021) awful.

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Toga

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TommyKentish
Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

I think once a player goes above 118-120kgs then you are in diminishing returns territory for every extra kg you weigh. There are some exceptions of course, particularly for props, but in the main, if you're >120kgs then you are too heavy to perform as effectively as you would be at <120kgs.

As I recall, the coaches were pretty pleased when they put Will Skelton through a tough pre-season and got him down from 160Kgs to c140Kgs*. . He did pretty well for us then.

(* In the words of the DT article about the monster currently playing for Saints, "that's a fully-packed suitcase".

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AlanE2

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Toga

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TommyKentish
Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

I think once a player goes above 118-120kgs then you are in diminishing returns territory for every extra kg you weigh. There are some exceptions of course, particularly for props, but in the main, if you're >120kgs then you are too heavy to perform as effectively as you would be at <120kgs.

As I recall, the coaches were pretty pleased when they put Will Skelton through a tough pre-season and got him down from 160Kgs to c140Kgs*. . He did pretty well for us then.

(* In the words of the DT article about the monster currently playing for Saints, "that's a fully-packed suitcase".

Saracens made Skelton the player he is. He was playing third-grade rugby in Sydney when Saracens recruited him. As I said, there are exceptions to my >120kgs rule but not many. You have to be a seriously massive human, even before elite S&C and nutrition, to carry that much weight in a professional game of rugby.

No not low veldt in Durban.

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Toga

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AlanE2

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Toga

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TommyKentish
Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

I think once a player goes above 118-120kgs then you are in diminishing returns territory for every extra kg you weigh. There are some exceptions of course, particularly for props, but in the main, if you're >120kgs then you are too heavy to perform as effectively as you would be at <120kgs.

As I recall, the coaches were pretty pleased when they put Will Skelton through a tough pre-season and got him down from 160Kgs to c140Kgs*. . He did pretty well for us then.

(* In the words of the DT article about the monster currently playing for Saints, "that's a fully-packed suitcase".

Saracens made Skelton the player he is. He was playing third-grade rugby in Sydney when Saracens recruited him. As I said, there are exceptions to my >120kgs rule but not many. You have to be a seriously massive human, even before elite S&C and nutrition, to carry that much weight in a professional game of rugby.

It surprised me that the amount he lost was 12kgs though. Tiz never looked 130p plus to my eyes, so it would make him pretty light for a lock, especially a “tighthead” lock.

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TommyKentish

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Toga

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AlanE2

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Toga

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TommyKentish
Reading the Times report and apparently Tizard has lost 12kgs in the past 6 months. That seems like a lot because he wasn’t exactly Will Skelton before! Looks like it’s working though.

I think once a player goes above 118-120kgs then you are in diminishing returns territory for every extra kg you weigh. There are some exceptions of course, particularly for props, but in the main, if you're >120kgs then you are too heavy to perform as effectively as you would be at <120kgs.

As I recall, the coaches were pretty pleased when they put Will Skelton through a tough pre-season and got him down from 160Kgs to c140Kgs*. . He did pretty well for us then.

(* In the words of the DT article about the monster currently playing for Saints, "that's a fully-packed suitcase".

Saracens made Skelton the player he is. He was playing third-grade rugby in Sydney when Saracens recruited him. As I said, there are exceptions to my >120kgs rule but not many. You have to be a seriously massive human, even before elite S&C and nutrition, to carry that much weight in a professional game of rugby.

It surprised me that the amount he lost was 12kgs though. Tiz never looked 130p plus to my eyes, so it would make him pretty light for a lock, especially a “tighthead” lock.

It's all about useful weight. A 2m tall man who is 20½st won't look markedly different from a 2m tall man who is 18½st because he's got a lot of body to distribute it across. The really heavy locks tend to be naturally very thick through the hips (not their guts!). Il

I remember meeting and chatting with Buck Shelford many years ago when he was still playing for Saints and the most noticeable thing about his physique was that he was like a block that just went straight down from his shoulders, it was extraordinary. Built like a postbox and just as hard to knock over!

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boomer!

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PaulHerox
Ultimately you can only beat the side that's put up and we did so comfortably although not ruthlessly.
Can only echo the comments about the quality of Hollie Davidson's refereeing. Great communication and she seemed to get all the bigger calls right..

I would like to think she is in with a shout at being a referee at RWC 2027

She's referreed the last two Women's World Cup Finals, plus various men's matches that were "firsts" for a woman ref, so she certainly be considered.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Three players in the RugbyPass Euro Team of the week, Daly, Cinti and Tizard

[www.rugbypass.com]

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AP

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boomer!

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PaulHerox
Ultimately you can only beat the side that's put up and we did so comfortably although not ruthlessly.
Can only echo the comments about the quality of Hollie Davidson's refereeing. Great communication and she seemed to get all the bigger calls right..

I would like to think she is in with a shout at being a referee at RWC 2027

She's referreed the last two Women's World Cup Finals, plus various men's matches that were "firsts" for a woman ref, so she certainly be considered.

She's got Ireland v Italy in the 6 Nations