Showdown 6 Premiership and PWR Preview

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:04:14:19:59:44 by Darraghgirl.

I don't think Earl or Bracken ar fit unfortunately and Gonzalez is definitely out
Caluori at FB is an interesting thought!

Some interesting points but also some formatting issues possibly. Quite a few positional selections that would be quite a surprise. If you're right we will need the Euro millions number for you for next week.

Sale are going great guns and I think that will be a much tougher game than we might have previously thought. Might we finally see deGoede.

For Saints they can and likely will 100% hurt us in similar ways that Bath did on counter-attack so my one take-away from last week would be to not over-play or force things. If we have fluffed a good attack and ended up 50m back don't try and create something from nothing with little support but kick it out and allow the team to reset. If the situations unravels don't go for the magical 10% offload but secure possession and back the team to do it's basics in supporting you.

I genuinely can't call the Saints game. A very close loss or a humping feel the most likely results right now but maybe that's because the ghost of the Bath loss is still haunting me.
Certainly if there's going to be a turning point in this season it needs to come in the next two weeks.

Good luck to both teams. I feel like we should get 1 win from 2 but who knows.

can we please stop with the AI opening posts please

Quote:

strawberry_jams
can we please stop with the AI opening posts please

Agreed, this is a million miles off. Half of the players referenced are injured or completely out of position. My team for the weekend would be;

1. Big red
2. Jamie
3. Marco
4. Tiz
5. Maro
6. Theo
7. Andy OC
8. Willis
9. Charlie B (was warming up in bath so hopefully he’s good to go)
10. Fergus
11. Roti
12. Hartley
13. Tommo
14. Noah
15. Daly


16. Theo D
17. Mawi
18. Street
19. Wilson
20. Mitch
21. Ivan
22. Faz
23. Malins / Tobias.

Charlie was avoiding contact when Big Jim did his YouTube video a week or so back.

Quote:

nicsue
Charlie was avoiding contact when Big Jim did his YouTube video a week or so back.

He was in the defensive line warming up against Bath last week.

Quote:

strawberry_jams
can we please stop with the AI opening posts please

Please can you explain further?
If you mean the first post, that is automatically generated by Sportnetwork and has been for years! Definitely not AI
The mods can amend it when they publish an article but it's something else to do, takes time and needs to be done every time we publish a headline article
Frankly we have enough to do!
Just skip it like everyone else.

Perhaps one of these complainants would like to submit the weekly article keeping the site open?

Strawberry Jams, I unfortunately have not been following the team recently for many different reasons (some personal) and therefore am not particularly au fait with who is injured and who isn't. This is NOT helped by the fact that the club rarely (if ever) releases injury updates to keep supporters in the loop. I wasn't aware about JMG, earl, bracks (who I thought had recovered so my bad) and I will edit the team accordingly. Its effectively guesswork at this point and I apologise for predictions I get wrong.

I have no idea what you are referring to with AI opening posts. What opening post are you referring to? I sometimes use grammarly to SPAG check my articles as my spelling and grammar is appalling, theres a reason I do a science degree and not an english lit one. I have a pretty distinctive writing style which you can clearly identify through the number of articles I have written before now.

I take time out of my working week to do this alongside balancing a masters degree, work and 1001 further committments. These articles take me 2+ hours to publish and that is WITHOUT any of the statistical analysis/play analysis I come up with by looking through rugby stats webites. Recenty I have not had time to conduct any of my own stats and fact analyses. If you fancy publishing some articles for the website, by all means please DM me. We need more mods and publishers. If not, keep your comments to yourself.

Probably a bot/shadow account anyway as I can see you have registered today at 9.06, conveniently when you posted. In future, message me personally or talk to me if you have a problem with my articles. More than happy to sort out any discrepencies privately than on a public article.

Don’t worry about this numpty. The vast majority of us appreciate the work you put in.

Agree with the prediction, hard to see us getting a win after last week. We do have the ability to pull a big win out of the bag a la Toulouse but not being a proper home match it seems less likely.

Hear hear. Thanks for your efforts

Coming back to the rugby. Really hope Noah comes back into the squad this weekend. He brings such an X-factor and you can feel the way he lifts the crowd. These are exactly the type of games we need to expose him to so that he can keep learning.

But I have a horrible feeling we will see Max instead. Who I feel sorry for - just hasn't been the same player since he re-joined but he doesn't have the pace for the wing anymore.

Quote:

Predicted Lineup — Northampton Saints
Emmanuel Iyogun
Curtis Langdon
Trevor Davison
Alex Coles
Chunya Munga
Callum Chick
Henry Pollock
Tom Pearson
Alex Mitchell
Fin Smith
Tommy Freeman
Rory Hutchinson
Fraser Dingwall
James Ramm
George Hendy

Coles, Mitch & Hendy all injured.
Davison may be fit.

Lockett probably into second row as JJ van der Mescht was listed as injured and Prowse failed an HIA against NRB.
McParland probably replaces Mitchell and Sleightholme replacing Hendy with Ramm moving to FB. Furbank suffered a nasty cut around the eye so may not be risked.

Bench
Wright, West, Green, Ainsworth-Cave, Kemeny, James, Belleau, Litchfield.

Is that AI written?

With injuries i would say the pack picks itself, apart from a choice of who partners Maro between Tiz and Nick.

Hopefully Charlie's shoulder is fixed and we see a 10-12-13 of Burke, Hartley and Tompkins.

Saracens Men team to play Northampton Saints:

1 Rhys Carre
2 Theo Dan
3 Marcus Street
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Andy Onyeama-Christie
8 Tom Willis
9 Charlie Bracken
10 Owen Farrell
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Elliot Daly

Replacements:

16 Jamie George
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Nick Isiekwe
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Ivan Van Zyl
22 Fergus Burke
23 Max Malins

Quote:

tpr's headmistress
Saracens Men team to play Northampton Saints:
1 Rhys Carre
2 Theo Dan
3 Marcus Street
4 Maro Itoje (c)
5 Hugh Tizard
6 Theo McFarland
7 Andy Onyeama-Christie
8 Tom Willis
9 Charlie Bracken
10 Owen Farrell
11 Rotimi Segun
12 Nick Tompkins
13 Lucio Cinti
14 Tobias Elliott
15 Elliot Daly

Replacements:

16 Jamie George
17 Eroni Mawi
18 Marco Riccioni
19 Nick Isiekwe
20 Nathan Michelow
21 Ivan Van Zyl
22 Fergus Burke
23 Max Malins

Genuinely lost for words on this selection

No Noah at all? Is he injured?

Would prefer to see Burke starting.

Bookies had this as Saints -1 before team sheets. Will be interesting to see how that moves

Quote:

Stumpy7780
No Noah at all? Is he injured?
Would prefer to see Burke starting.

Bookies had this as Saints -1 before team sheets. Will be interesting to see how that moves

Nope, he is playing for Ampthill

At least we’ve gone 5-3 bench. Not too surprised by the team given injuries, really need a a big game from AOC.
Can only imagine Noah is injured, whilst I suspect Mark doesn’t trust Olly Hartley in the big games.
Play well and we stand a good chance.
Great to see Charlie back.

Lose by 50 and don’t change any of the backs that got tore apart
Prem top try scorer not picked and playing in the championship is an interesting decision

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

Stumpy7780
No Noah at all? Is he injured?
Would prefer to see Burke starting.

Bookies had this as Saints -1 before team sheets. Will be interesting to see how that moves

Nope, he is playing for Ampthill

Madness, he’s box office and this is our showpiece event? Surely this game was made for him?

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

Stumpy7780
No Noah at all? Is he injured?
Would prefer to see Burke starting.

Bookies had this as Saints -1 before team sheets. Will be interesting to see how that moves

Nope, he is playing for Ampthill

That's just a joke and sums up the mentality of the coaching group. Use Noah in the promo to try and attract fans and then don't have the b*lls to play him.

I would legitimately be more excited to watch this Ampthill backline than the Saracens one. At least it has some pace.....

9. Efan Jones 10. Luke Davidson
11. Jack Bracken 12. Fraser Strachan (c) 13. Sione Vaenuku 14. Noah Caluori 15. Joe Heslop



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:27:12:07:05 by LondonSarrie.

In positive injury news, Jack Bracken is back for Ampthill too.

Saracens v Northampton Saints
Referee: Anthony Woodthorpe (53rd game)
ARs: Christophe Ridley & Wayne Falla
TMO: Karl Dickson

Saracens Women v Sale Sharks Women
Referee: Nikki O’Donnell
ARs: Veryan Boscawen & Kieron Henry

Men’s backline just makes no sense after last week, other than bringing Charlie in and keeping Tobias. I expect a hammering again.

In terms of the women’s team, great to see Sophie DG back, I really think we need her and Liv firing if we are to oust GH at the end of the season. Sad to see no Bridge, must be injured - not sure why Sydney not in the centres and Lotte on the wing, although it gives us another playmaker with Amelia at centre. At least Sarries will should see one win from the Showdown!

Quote:

Strangelove
In terms of the women’s team, great to see Sophie DG back, I really think we need her and Liv firing if we are to oust GH at the end of the season. Sad to see no Bridge, must be injured - not sure why Sydney not in the centres and Lotte on the wing, although it gives us another playmaker with Amelia at centre. At least Sarries will should see one win from the Showdown!

I quite like it Strangelove. With the home SemiFinal secure it's a good time to try some alternative options out and whilst our centre's have been great I think it's worth seeing McDougall started with Harrison to see what additional dimension it might provide.
There's been a lot of moment in the pack all season and not always injury enforced. For me Cleall does her best work at 8 and after a quiet last game I'd have hoped to see her roaring back but again giving Senft time there makes sense and she was one of those who really stood up v Glos.

It's great to have deGoede back. There was an interesting interview with Hollie Davidson on one of the podcasts where she said that deGoede is the best captain she has refereed on the field. Totally on top of the play and the Laws and always questioning. That feels like it could be one of the missing pieces as for me Packers best position is on the bench right now.

Did Bridger go off for an HIA in the end? She certainly took a knock so hopefully it's just a rest.

I think Sale will be a tough game but I'm really looking forward to watching it.

A bit like England the Men's team feels like selection based on giving the same group of players the chance to deliver/make amends for the previous performance and in that regard I get it.
The Saints side looks top quality and on paper I feel we match up well.

It is largely the same team minus injuries but with the strongest front row, starting and bench we can field. Itoje back into the team and captaining. McFarland retained at 6 after a good game against Bath strengthens our lineout and balances the backrow. Bracken at 9. No 6/2 bench. We've backed Elliott again on the wing and with Segun there too we're better suited to defending pace whilst offering our own.
All those are things that many here wanted.

A bit like Borthwick after Scotland we were never going to make big changes before "Ireland" I suspect we won't before "Italy" either regardless of tomorrows result so I'm just going to cross everything and hope that win or lose we can see a performance to be proud of.

Really am baffled by Noah not getting selected
He’s been all over the promos and a perfect figure for the casuals to get excited about seeing
He was on the Youngs and Cole podcast a few months back saying how much he was looking forward to this game, so I bet he’s absolutely gutted
I hope we don’t pull the stunt of the players turning up in fancy dress again like they did last year

I like three legitimate lineout options in our balance, works well for Dan.

Quote:

PaulHerox

Quote:

Strangelove
In terms of the women’s team, great to see Sophie DG back, I really think we need her and Liv firing if we are to oust GH at the end of the season. Sad to see no Bridge, must be injured - not sure why Sydney not in the centres and Lotte on the wing, although it gives us another playmaker with Amelia at centre. At least Sarries will should see one win from the Showdown!

I quite like it Strangelove. With the home SemiFinal secure it's a good time to try some alternative options out and whilst our centre's have been great I think it's worth seeing McDougall started with Harrison to see what additional dimension it might provide.
There's been a lot of moment in the pack all season and not always injury enforced. For me Cleall does her best work at 8 and after a quiet last game I'd have hoped to see her roaring back but again giving Senft time there makes sense and she was one of those who really stood up v Glos.

It's great to have deGoede back. There was an interesting interview with Hollie Davidson on one of the podcasts where she said that deGoede is the best captain she has refereed on the field. Totally on top of the play and the Laws and always questioning. That feels like it could be one of the missing pieces as for me Packers best position is on the bench right now.

Did Bridger go off for an HIA in the end? She certainly took a knock so hopefully it's just a rest.

I think Sale will be a tough game but I'm really looking forward to watching it.

Good point Paul re home semi, so yes a good idea to give Amelia a start there. SDG is not World player of the year for nothing and I hope she gets on and comes through unscathed.

Quote:

MarkCol7
Really am baffled by Noah not getting selected
He’s been all over the promos and a perfect figure for the casuals to get excited about seeing
He was on the Youngs and Cole podcast a few months back saying how much he was looking forward to this game, so I bet he’s absolutely gutted
I hope we don’t pull the stunt of the players turning up in fancy dress again like they did last year

Maybe he hasn’t been pulling his weight in training? One of the early season stories was that Owen had a word with him on that score.

Quote:

The Bard

Quote:

MarkCol7
Really am baffled by Noah not getting selected
He’s been all over the promos and a perfect figure for the casuals to get excited about seeing
He was on the Youngs and Cole podcast a few months back saying how much he was looking forward to this game, so I bet he’s absolutely gutted
I hope we don’t pull the stunt of the players turning up in fancy dress again like they did last year

Maybe he hasn’t been pulling his weight in training? One of the early season stories was that Owen had a word with him on that score.

That was a story he told himself as an example of the learning curve he had been on.

His lack of selection fits our pattern from the couple of seasons. Form means nothing. In what world does the current incarnation of Max deserve a bench spot ahead of Noah or Hartley?

It's becoming my new mantra - a side that it is impossible to play your way in or out of.

I believe we still have enough to win, but would have Saints as heavier favourites now the teams are out.

There’s all for giving the same players the chance to redeem themselves, but this just seems wrong. There is no risk for players not playing well or being out of form. People like Ferg, Hartley and Noah should have their chance until the end of the season, it cannot be any worse and gives them chance to develop confidence, big game experience knowing they won’t suddenly be dropped next week - not that Ferg needs this, he needs to be able to run the game and have the right players around him at 9 and 12, without the spectre of Faz being over him. Huge fan of Faz, he is our GOAT imho, but him coming back straight in at 10 has been a mistake and appears to me his influence over the squad has often hindered things - it’s certainly scuppered putting any faith in Ferg.

Agree Strangelove.
I think you can make a case that todays game is probably a last chance to keep our top 4 chances alive and next week the last chance of meaningful progress in Europe so I don't expect to see changes. Hopefully that loyalty is rewarded with results or at least good performances that can be built on.
If that isn't the picture in a fortnight I really hope that we do as you say and back alternatives for the rest of the season.

I do think we have painted ourselves into the corner a bit with some of our re-signings.
There's no way Farrell isn't our starting 10 next season, ditto Daly Fullback and likely Tompkins 12 especially as he seems likely to be freed from Welsh duties.
Cinti and Segun are both players I like but that probably means another couple of spots relatively tied down and Williams isn't joining us to sit on the bench so all of a sudden our rebuild and giving our young talent a chance is likely one spot on the wing and maybe rotation at 12 and the Segun wing with Bracken on the bench.

Given the choice between that and Bracken & Burke, Hartley and Cinti/Hall at centre, Malins or even young Elliott at Fullback and perming from Segun, Elliott, Caluori and Bracken on the wing for the next couple of seasons I know which feels a more likely route to both enjoyable rugby to watch and evolution of the team.
To me our recruitment suggests that at the end of next season we'll probably see Burke and Malins moving on and still be waiting for Hartley, Hall and the young wingers to get regular game time.

Quote:

Strangelove
There’s all for giving the same players the chance to redeem themselves, but this just seems wrong. There is no risk for players not playing well or being out of form. People like Ferg, Hartley and Noah should have their chance until the end of the season, it cannot be any worse and gives them chance to develop confidence, big game experience knowing they won’t suddenly be dropped next week - not that Ferg needs this, he needs to be able to run the game and have the right players around him at 9 and 12, without the spectre of Faz being over him. Huge fan of Faz, he is our GOAT imho, but him coming back straight in at 10 has been a mistake and appears to me his influence over the squad has often hindered things - it’s certainly scuppered putting any faith in Ferg.

Yep, but this has been the case for the last couple of years. There is no accountability and it is impossible to be dropped or play yourself into the side. The level of performance across the squad this season has been really poor, and yet there they are each week. McCall can say how stunned he is every time we ship 40, 50, 60 points… but it happens semi regularly now… he surely can’t be that stunned. We’re not.

Quote:

PaulHerox
I do think we have painted ourselves into the corner a bit with some of our re-signings.
There's no way Farrell isn't our starting 10 next season, ditto Daly Fullback and likely Tompkins 12 especially as he seems likely to be freed from Welsh duties.
Cinti and Segun are both players I like but that probably means another couple of spots relatively tied down and Williams isn't joining us to sit on the bench so all of a sudden our rebuild and giving our young talent a chance is likely one spot on the wing and maybe rotation at 12 and the Segun wing with Bracken on the bench.

Yep I agree. Except I don’t see rotation at 12. They’re determined that Tompkins is the answer despite him never having been the answer and his best position being 13.

Quote:

#wolfpack1

Quote:

Strangelove
There’s all for giving the same players the chance to redeem themselves, but this just seems wrong. There is no risk for players not playing well or being out of form. People like Ferg, Hartley and Noah should have their chance until the end of the season, it cannot be any worse and gives them chance to develop confidence, big game experience knowing they won’t suddenly be dropped next week - not that Ferg needs this, he needs to be able to run the game and have the right players around him at 9 and 12, without the spectre of Faz being over him. Huge fan of Faz, he is our GOAT imho, but him coming back straight in at 10 has been a mistake and appears to me his influence over the squad has often hindered things - it’s certainly scuppered putting any faith in Ferg.

Yep, but this has been the case for the last couple of years. There is no accountability and it is impossible to be dropped or play yourself into the side. The level of performance across the squad this season has been really poor, and yet there they are each week. McCall can say how stunned he is every time we ship 40, 50, 60 points… but it happens semi regularly now… he surely can’t be that stunned. We’re not.

Absolutely spot on.

Not only are you not dropped, you’re rewarded with a new deal.

Amtphill are at home to Richmond in a game that (if they win) would put them 3 wins ahead of them and effectively (considering remaining fixtures) safety - while consigning richmond and Scottish to the relegation play off.

If one has a cynical mind you could argue that the likes of calouri playing (despite only making 1 ampthill appearance this year back in oct) is beong done purely to guarantee that win happens, and amtphill remain in the champ for next season. Odds on calouri not playing for ampthill again this season if they beat richmond would be interesting!

I've not seen him playing for Ampthill how has he been going.

Decent turnout for the women!

What a great picture!

Feels better than last week but we're still not taking the opportunities

13 mins

Season probably done but at least we put up a fight

**** Knew that was coming when the ref didn't bother to blow a huge forward pass in the lead up to their last score.

Still, a better performance but far too many chances not taken. Just too sloppy all over the field

Toby Elliot is box office, looked like he’d never been away. Our future at wing looks very bright

So all three home teams in todays ‘big showdown’s’ lost…….magic or coincidence?

Not going to say what I really think as I’ll no doubt be hung drawn and quartered.

Better but Just grateful something new is on the horizon.

Quote:

Stonexjim
Not going to say what I really think as I’ll no doubt be hung drawn and quartered.
Better but Just grateful something new is on the horizon.

I’d like to know your thoughts, what’s the point of the forum if you can’t share your opinion

On the train heading home. I thought that it was a good day out with Dizee Rascal being a great pre match act for a large crowd . The game itself was very close and entertaining and although the stadium
wasn’t full it was still a pretty good atmosphere- compares very well with Wembley or the London Stadium.
Our season may be over but there were some encouragements for next season with both Charlie Bracken and Tobias having good showings. I was impressed that Fergus stopped the massive Mescht from putting the ball down as it was one on one!
My main shout is for a big hard running no 12 in the mould of Brad Barritt

Quote:

Stumpy7780

Quote:

Stonexjim
Not going to say what I really think as I’ll no doubt be hung drawn and quartered.
Better but Just grateful something new is on the horizon.

I’d like to know your thoughts, what’s the point of the forum if you can’t share your opinion

“What’s the point of a forum if you can’t share your opinion”

I absolutely couldn’t agree more!!!

I’ll wade in tomorrow when I’m more calm 🤣

Cinti going awol for their winning try sort of sums his Sarries career .

Elliot and Bracken played well as did Maro and Carre.

Love Farrell but signing him summed up our mixed thinking imo and has a player ever got slow as quickly as Max has.. like he has sea boots on

Michelow put in a good shift when he came on
Bracken had an ok game but Farrell was taking a lot of passes behind him
The less said about Isiekwe and Daly the better

Ratings from RugbyPass

15 Elliot Daly – 7
Produced a superb early moment to shut down George Furbank and kill Northampton’s momentum, and had a display littered with some nice touches, such as his offload to release Rotimi Segun was top class. However, a pass to nobody when Saracens were on the attack summed up the inconsistency. Also fortunate not to be punished when Tom Litchfield nearly intercepted. In no way at his best, but looked threatening in the second half.

14 Tobias Elliott – 8
One of Saracens’ standout performers. Showed immense strength to score a try he had no right to, brushing off defenders after the ball initially went to ground. His chip-and-chase from deep was excellent, and his defensive effort to hold JJ van der Mescht up over the line late on was monumental. A real bright spark.

13 Lucio Cinti – 4
Carried well and made decent ground with ball in hand, but struggled to impose himself consistently on the game. Solid without being spectacular. Seven missed tackles were costly.

12 Nick Tompkins – 6
A combative display in midfield. Put in a big tackle to dislodge the ball from Tom Litchfield and worked tirelessly throughout and provided energy in both attack and defence.

11 Rotimi Segun – 6
Didn’t see enough ball in space to truly impact proceedings. Had one opportunity in the corner but slipped at the crucial moment. Quiet overall.

10 Owen Farrell – 6
Reliable from the tee but not at his commanding best. Pinged early at the breakdown and missed a penalty to touch, which handed momentum back to Saints. Controlled territory reasonably well but lacked his usual authority.

9 Charlie Bracken – 6
A loose pass from the base of a five-metre scrum that handed possession straight back to Northampton perhaps summed up the lack of cohesion in attack. Distribution was otherwise steady, but that moment loomed large.

1 Rhys Carré – 8
A powerful showing from the loosehead. His carrying and offloading provided rare front-foot ball, including a brilliant one-handed pass to put Tompkins into space. Won multiple scrum penalties, including one deep in Saints territory. A real physical presence.

2 Theo Dan – 6
A mixed outing. Took his try well, breaking off the maul to power over early in the second half, but his lineout work was shaky and he spilt possession at a key moment. Impactful but inconsistent.

3 Marcus Street – 4
Struggled defensively and at the scrum. Was caught out as Fin Smith glided through for Northampton’s second try and conceded multiple scrum penalties. A difficult afternoon.

4 Maro Itoje – 8
Led from the front. His lineout work (stealing ball and linking with Dan on one occasion) was great, while his defensive work, including a huge hit on Tom Lockett, helped win a penalty. Constantly shot out of the line to disrupt Saints’ attack.

5 Hugh Tizard – 6
A frustrating performance. Isolated badly in Saints’ first try and came close to a try only to juggle the ball over the line. Worked hard defensively but lacked polish in key moments.

6 Theo McFarland – 5
His tap-back from the kick-off handed Saints early pressure, and had some lapses in concentration, including to appear to overrun defensively at times, particularly for Saints’ second try. Still carried well but not at his usual level.

7 Andy Onyeama-Christie – 5
Busy but had five missed tackles in his display. Put in a solid defensive shift and worked hard at the breakdown, but didn’t produce a standout moment.

8 Tom Willis – 6
Carried strongly at times but an early knock-on under pressure invited further Saints momentum. Otherwise industrious, but not decisive.

Replacements

16 Jamie George – 6

17 Eroni Mawi – 5

18 Marco Riccioni – 4

19 Nick Isiekwe – 5

20 Nathan Michelow – 6

21 Ivan Van Zyl – 5

22 Fergus Burke – 7

23 Max Malins – 5

7 missed tackles by Cinti, Jesus wept, I’m not sure why McFarland gets the blame for his tap back from kick off, he did his job.

Putting my thoughts on the match to one side, I never want to hear complaints about travelling to the StoneX again. Every year it’s an absolute nightmare to get to and from that bloody stadium.

Similar to my comment after Bath, the biggest indictment of this squad and how it’s coached and put out on the field is after that I can shrug and go “well, it was closer than it looked like it was going to be after 20 mins.”

Yes this week and last week show the yawning chasm between two teams who are confident in the game plan and know what they are doing and a team who seem largely reliant on individuals pulling something out of the bag. I hope we can see something new from the remaining games because it’s very frustrating watching us fail doing the same thing over and over again.

An absolute clinic.... in how not to coach a rugby team.

- Put Farrell - Tompkins - Cinti on the pitch again. Hopeless in attack and Cinti consistently escorting opposing players through to the try line. 7 missed tackles and what's worse is that it isn't even a surprise.
- Dominant scrum, Theo D the best player in the loose. But no - the clock strikes 50 mins so obliged to remove the front row. Instantly concede scrum penalties and lose all dominance and front foot ball.
- Bracken dictating the play - so let's take him off and give Van Zyl the chance to start skimming balls across the turf.

I will forever be indebted to the memories that the likes of Faz and Daly provided, but dear lord they looked so far off the pace. Daly throwing a delightful miss pass to nobody summed it up.

McCall is a legend. But the rest of the coaching staff are just not up to it. Would love Brendan to have a clear out - but my fear is that he is too close to this coaching group to take the necessary action. Im not sure how we ended up with Dai Flanagan as attack coach, but the sheer panic in our backs every time they get the ball is laughable and we have no attacking shape at all. Whereas I thought Saints attacking shape while Smith was on the pitch was incredibly impressive.

We don't deserve to be anywhere near the play-offs and after that result we won't be.

Well done to the Women's team. I missed most of the game but it looked a good result and based on the PotM award McDougall at 12 must have gone well. Neither Apps or deGoede crocked is great.
I look forward to watching it back.

That Men's performance raises more questions than it provides answers for me.
Well done to Saints on their win. Some classy and fun supporters at the game. Obviously emptied Northampton of that as their board shows them to be poor winners.

Itoje and Elliot, the winger were exceptional. Scrum and lineout went pretty well.
There are definitely positives to take from the game and considerable ones but to be honest with the injuries Saints had and the platform the pack gave us we should be wining that game.
We looked good in attack in phases but that play-making axis of 10/FB simply isn't good enough for the attacking rugby we want to play. Too many big mistakes from both today. Missing touch for penalties, throwing passes to no one and into touch, intercept, etc.

For me that was a coaching failure above a player one. I genuinely don't get why we seem so wedded to repeating the same mistakes.

Burke was magnificent in holding up two trys. Great team effort but in both cases he's stopping the initial grounding. A real shame that he bit in for last try as his taking Onyeama-Christies man opens the hole for the break.

I'd ignore the RP players ratings Rasiey doesn't have clue. The opening mark for Daly tells you that as does the mark for McFarland.

The big question is was that our big effort or can we back up and improve that for Bath next week.

Quote:

LondonSarrie
Theo D the best player in the loose. But no - the clock strikes 50 mins so obliged to remove the front row. Instantly concede scrum penalties and lose all dominance and front foot ball.
- Bracken dictating the play - so let's take him off and give Van Zyl the chance to start skimming balls across the turf.

Don’t.

In a crowded field, the substitutions by numbers has got to be the more irritating and frustrating aspect of each game week.
Add Carre and McFarland and Tom Willis to the sub madness.

Saints shape before Smith went of was so great. Night and day compared to the one out runners we had at points in the first half.

We looked most dangerous off of the first phase ball but once that got stopped it was hard grafting

I’m not even sure about first phase. Too often we just have Elliott or Tompkins crashing it up, neither are particularly massive so they can’t hit the deck quickly and recycle for quick ball like we did when Barritt was at 12.

The marking looked very harsh on Street who I thought won more scrum penalties than we conceded. Replacement front row on top after the first couple.
But why did we take scrum penalties just before half time? Really couldn’t see how a score was coming from there.
Tobias Elliot looked excellent, and even though yet another last minute loss was hard to take it really could have been all over in 20 minutes.

Yes I found the decision to take the scrum a bit weird. Maybe you can argue we were aiming for a yellow but we didn’t feel that dominant in the scrum. Always a lottery at the end of the day, much more control over a lineout or pick and go.

Tobias was outstanding, great to have him back.

Strong cameos from Michelow and Burke.

We are just so easy to break through the middle. We find ourselves with positional mismatches so often that it must be a structural issue.

Season is over most likely after next week, so let's see the young lads getting some game time with pressure off.

Quote:

Sarrov
Season is over most likely after next week, so let's see the young lads getting some game time with pressure off.

I fear the reality is regardless of the next result we won't see significant changes.
The new regime will continue to base our game around Farrell and that means certain players have to be picked and others will be excluded.
Anyone who thinks there is legitimate competition at 10 hasn't been paying attention.

Last week was far better than losing with a kick and laclustee chase game. This week was a lot better than last. A dozen mistakes last week, half a dozen this week. Hopefully 2-3 next week and we are competitive

Quote:

PaulHerox
Well done to the Women's team. I missed most of the game but it looked a good result and based on the PotM award McDougall at 12 must have gone well. Neither Apps or deGoede crocked is great.
I look forward to watching it back.

That Men's performance raises more questions than it provides answers for me.
Well done to Saints on their win. Some classy and fun supporters at the game. Obviously emptied Northampton of that as their board shows them to be poor winners.

Itoje and Elliot, the winger were exceptional. Scrum and lineout went pretty well.
There are definitely positives to take from the game and considerable ones but to be honest with the injuries Saints had and the platform the pack gave us we should be wining that game.
We looked good in attack in phases but that play-making axis of 10/FB simply isn't good enough for the attacking rugby we want to play. Too many big mistakes from both today. Missing touch for penalties, throwing passes to no one and into touch, intercept, etc.

For me that was a coaching failure above a player one. I genuinely don't get why we seem so wedded to repeating the same mistakes.

Burke was magnificent in holding up two trys. Great team effort but in both cases he's stopping the initial grounding. A real shame that he bit in for last try as his taking Onyeama-Christies man opens the hole for the break.

I'd ignore the RP players ratings Rasiey doesn't have clue. The opening mark for Daly tells you that as does the mark for McFarland.

The big question is was that our big effort or can we back up and improve that for Bath next week.

Women’s game was pretty good, we raced into an early lead - 3rd quarter was scrappy, quite a few errors from both teams before we pulled away in the last 20.

Amelia was good, a fantastic 50/22 but I would not have given her PoM, personally. Poppy dominant, Gaby Senft or Royer would have been my PoM. Liv and Ayesha excellent as always. Great to see SDG back and unscathed. Sale were poor by their own recent form, couldn’t get their lineout to work and we held them up 3 times over the line - great defence prevailed. Really pleased that the league is more competitive these days, but GH and Sarries are clear of the field and dominating the league. Glad the women got to experience a big venue and be part of the big club event.

I do feel BV is a bridge to someone else whoever that may be but he has to change that coaching staff as its weak. For me our resigning of ageing players is fine if they are fringe not starters..commit to youth and their errors because for every error you get a similar moment of inspiration.

We are winning zero with a variation of Malins / Daly / Tompkins and Faz in a backline at their ages and stages of decline . Malins should be behind all the youth and Faz shouldn't be our starter in a supposed rebuild.

Ok my thoughts after a nights sleep and a clam down.

Carre- really impressive. Showed some of that wales form in the loose and was part of a good scrum.
Dan- line out showed some creakiness again. Few too many missed throws and didn’t offer a great deal in the loose as he has in the past.
Street- was part of an impressive scrum in the first half that.
Itoje- workmanlike. I still find myself wanting a little more though. Not having that impact on games he once had. I’m sure I’ll be shouted at for saying this.
Tizzard- very poor. Counted at least 4 tackles he fell off in the first half.
Theo mc- thought he played really well. Busy. Good in the air and the loose.
Aoc- barely knew he was playing.
Willis- one of his quieter games.
Charlie- looked good on the big stage. Made one or two errors but will have learnt from this.
Faz- thought he was rubbish.
Roti- showed why he’d earned his new contract but again not as effective as he has been this season.
Tompkins- standard Nick Tompkins performance. Solid in defence. Put a couple of good hits on big jj but offered zero in attack.
Cinti- awful. Literally forgot he was even on the pitch by ht. Just don’t get it for a player who plays so well every time for Argentina.
Tobias- outstanding. Solid pleased he’s come back from injury so well.
Daly- sure I’ll be told off for this one too but how that man has got a new deal is utterly beyond me. Slow, kicking hit and miss, a couple of passes very nearly intercepted, some good tackles but some powder puff ones. And then there’s the pass hurled to nobody.

Subs
Fergus must now start but he won’t. Notable mention for Michelow. Max still way off it. Front row replacements lost us our scrum dominance.

McCall- once again we’ve lost a game in the final five minutes. Once again we’ve made substitutes at 50 minutes, 55 minutes, 60 minutes that have had a direct impact on the result. All players that I’ve sat in my seat and made me fume and go eh? in the same measure. It’s like McCall has it on a spreadsheet and has decided it before the game and must stick to it. Why the hell did Rhys Carre, one of the best players on the pitch yesterday, be substituted?! Scrum was on top, he was every where offloading in the loose, he’s played 80 for wales. Just why? Theo mc was playing very well and aoc was blunt as anything…off comes Theo. Then our best player for the last two years gets taken off, why?! As I’ve said above and before, thank you mark, you’re a legend and I’m eternally grateful, but I’m so so glad change is upon us.

The end

*readies for incoming pelters*

Quote:

Stonexjim
Ok my thoughts after a nights sleep and a clam down.
Carre- really impressive. Showed some of that wales form in the loose and was part of a good scrum.
Dan- line out showed some creakiness again. Few too many missed throws and didn’t offer a great deal in the loose as he has in the past.
Street- was part of an impressive scrum in the first half that.
Itoje- workmanlike. I still find myself wanting a little more though. Not having that impact on games he once had. I’m sure I’ll be shouted at for saying this.
Tizzard- very poor. Counted at least 4 tackles he fell off in the first half.
Theo mc- thought he played really well. Busy. Good in the air and the loose.
Aoc- barely knew he was playing.
Willis- one of his quieter games.
Charlie- looked good on the big stage. Made one or two errors but will have learnt from this.
Faz- thought he was rubbish.
Roti- showed why he’d earned his new contract but again not as effective as he has been this season.
Tompkins- standard Nick Tompkins performance. Solid in defence. Put a couple of good hits on big jj but offered zero in attack.
Cinti- awful. Literally forgot he was even on the pitch by ht. Just don’t get it for a player who plays so well every time for Argentina.
Tobias- outstanding. Solid pleased he’s come back from injury so well.
Daly- sure I’ll be told off for this one too but how that man has got a new deal is utterly beyond me. Slow, kicking hit and miss, a couple of passes very nearly intercepted, some good tackles but some powder puff ones. And then there’s the pass hurled to nobody.

Subs
Fergus must now start but he won’t. Notable mention for Michelow. Max still way off it. Front row replacements lost us our scrum dominance.

McCall- once again we’ve lost a game in the final five minutes. Once again we’ve made substitutes at 50 minutes, 55 minutes, 60 minutes that have had a direct impact on the result. All players that I’ve sat in my seat and made me fume and go eh? in the same measure. It’s like McCall has it on a spreadsheet and has decided it before the game and must stick to it. Why the hell did Rhys Carre, one of the best players on the pitch yesterday, be substituted?! Scrum was on top, he was every where offloading in the loose, he’s played 80 for wales. Just why? Theo mc was playing very well and aoc was blunt as anything…off comes Theo. Then our best player for the last two years gets taken off, why?! As I’ve said above and before, thank you mark, you’re a legend and I’m eternally grateful, but I’m so so glad change is upon us.

The end

*readies for incoming pelters*

Don’t think Carre has ever gone 80 minutes for Wales
He was subbed at 50 minutes in all of the six nations games he started this year from memory and most of them times he’s looked completely gassed when he’s been subbed off

Quote:

MarkCol7

Don’t think Carre has ever gone 80 minutes for Wales
He was subbed at 50 minutes in all of the six nations games he started this year from memory and most of them times he’s looked completely gassed when he’s been subbed off

Carre coming off at 50 mins was a mad decision.
And as with all our substitutions was pre meditated (Dan and Street just happened to be gassed at the same time?? Only 10 mins after half time)?

They do it every week.

If we won every week you couldn’t query it. But we lose many more games than we win … maybe we should try something different..?

As an outsider looking in you do have to question some of the logic of some of the signings/re-signings you’ve made recently and what that says about direction of travel. Looks like too many signings based on loyalty/past reputation rather than a genuine look to the future. Just look at scrum half signing Williams and James 33 & 32 year olds. I thought Bracken on the whole looked pretty good yesterday and who you should be building around so why the heck sign Williams who I guess wouldn’t have been cheap and wouldn’t be coming to be second choice so potentially stifling Bracken’s opportunities. James would be logical if backup to Bracken but that’s not the case - it does look somewhat bewildering

Williams is a dramatic improvement in what has been a weak area for us since losing Spencer and Wiggy. No issue with that signing. Also he has international commitments so Bracken should get plenty of game time still. James is a decent squad player although I’d personally rather Stewart-Harris get time but I see the logic of not being reliant on two very inexperienced 9s should Williams get injured.

Quote:

Stevie Myler's right boot
As an outsider looking in you do have to question some of the logic of some of the signings/re-signings you’ve made recently and what that says about direction of travel. Looks like too many signings based on loyalty/past reputation rather than a genuine look to the future.

Yup.

This has been the way for the last 5 years or so. McCall and co look at players who did it for them before when they were the best in Europe or in some cases the world and blindly trust that they will do it again.

What is more frustrating is we have some genuinely good young players who not only deserve a chance but in many cases are better than the first teamers. Noah, Jack B, Luke Davidson etc all scoring for Ampthill yesterday. I think we’d have all rather seen Noah or Jack involved yesterday ahead of Malins. I’d rather they were in ahead of Daly as well personally.

The re-signing of players who are passed their best is in stark contrast to Saints who allow established club players to move on (Lawes, Ludlam, Furbank etc) rather than break the bank to keep them (or, worse, re sign them after they’ve left once) and allow them to keep plugging away. It’s a model we should follow but just won’t for some reason.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:09:59:53 by #wolfpack1.

Quote:

#wolfpack1

Quote:

Stevie Myler's right boot
As an outsider looking in you do have to question some of the logic of some of the signings/re-signings you’ve made recently and what that says about direction of travel. Looks like too many signings based on loyalty/past reputation rather than a genuine look to the future.

Yup.

This has been the way for the last 5 years or so. McCall and co look at players who did it for them before when they were the best in Europe or in some cases the world and blindly trust that they will do it again.

What is more frustrating is we have some genuinely good young players who not only deserve a chance but in many cases are better than the first teamers. Noah, Jack B, Luke Davidson etc all scoring for Ampthill yesterday. I think we’d have all rather seen Noah or Jack involved yesterday ahead of Malins. I’d rather they were in ahead of Daly as well personally.

The re-signing of players who are passed their best is in stark contrast to Saints who allow established club players to move on (Lawes, Ludlam, Furbank etc) rather than break the bank to keep them (or, worse, re sign them after they’ve left once) and allow them to keep plugging away. It’s a model we should follow but just won’t for some reason.

Absolutely this! Very good comparison actually.

You know it’s bad when you’ve even got opposition fans calling it bewildering.

I would definitely like to see a different backs line up for the last game with any meaning this season next week away to Bath.

I am thinking C Bracken, Burke, Calouri, Hartley, Tomkins, Elliott, Daly with IVZ, Faz & Segun on the bench

The pack will pick itself!

I don’t think either Cinti or Malins deserve a place in the 23 after the last few performances and I want to see Burke given a chance in a game that matters.

It’s frustrating that the pack picks itself but injuries to the younger players means there is not many other choices.

Quote:

Strangelove
Women’s game was pretty good, we raced into an early lead - 3rd quarter was scrappy, quite a few errors from both teams before we pulled away in the last 20.
Amelia was good, a fantastic 50/22 but I would not have given her PoM, personally. Poppy dominant, Gaby Senft or Royer would have been my PoM. Liv and Ayesha excellent as always. Great to see SDG back and unscathed. Sale were poor by their own recent form, couldn’t get their lineout to work and we held them up 3 times over the line - great defence prevailed. Really pleased that the league is more competitive these days, but GH and Sarries are clear of the field and dominating the league. Glad the women got to experience a big venue and be part of the big club event.

Thanks Strangelove.
I watched this morning and generally felt quite positive. I'm delighted for the team that they got to play is such a spectacular venue and record a good result.
The defence was brilliant and seeing the understanding of roles and above all communication was great. They defend differently to the Men's team but that communication is something the Men sorely miss. Great to keep Sale to nill but also well done to them for playing for points rather than taking any of several shots at goal.

To be honest maybe a bit sentimental but I'd have given Corrigan PotM. She was easily good enough to be in the conversation and her 50th at Tottenham would have been reward for one of our best players this season.

I'm glad they tried McDougall at 12 and that they stuck with it. Very early days and I don't think she made any mistakes but it was a little prescriptive with the tactic mainly being to use her as the second pass to get to wide to Breach and invite her to attack space in the defensive line or pass to the wing. To be fair it worked nicely several times but if it's coming almost every time smarter teams will either close it down or take advantage of it.

I think it definitely showcased some of our best rugby but we also coasted and played some less good stuff in the middle.
Credit to Sale too but for large portions of that game there was too much whiteline fever by the forwards whilst there was masses of space out wide. Those are exactly the chances we need to be aware of v the best teams.

I thought Breach had a good game and it was a shame she couldn't take the pass from Corrigan as that play really deserved a try. Great to see deGoede although a relatively quiet cameo.
Apps is just different level but it was good to see Sellors get more game time and do well after a poor start.

Do you have a feeling for what our best side is? I think we have to find a way to start both Omakhuale and Senft as they add hugely to our lineut and are brilliant in the loose.

Quote:

Stevie Myler's right boot
As an outsider looking in you do have to question some of the logic of some of the signings/re-signings you’ve made recently and what that says about direction of travel. Looks like too many signings based on loyalty/past reputation rather than a genuine look to the future. Just look at scrum half signing Williams and James 33 & 32 year olds. I thought Bracken on the whole looked pretty good yesterday and who you should be building around so why the heck sign Williams who I guess wouldn’t have been cheap and wouldn’t be coming to be second choice so potentially stifling Bracken’s opportunities. James would be logical if backup to Bracken but that’s not the case - it does look somewhat bewildering

+1
Thanks for the contribution and nail hit on head.

I don't necessarily think that the front row subs are an issue. There's a lot of sense in bringing on both props at the same time and it went reasonably well. All three of the replacements added in the loose and we kept our feed of the scrum at 100%.

Quote:

TommyKentish
It’s frustrating that the pack picks itself but injuries to the younger players means there is not many other choices.

Is Hartley injured? I think you make a good point that some of this seasons selections have at least in theory been impacted by quite a run of injuries to our young players. That said I don't follow the Ampthill lot so am unaware what form their in. Caluori is a rare talent but I also felt his U20s performances were very mixed. Had he played yesterday it would likely have been instead of Elliot who was maybe our best player. Even if we go 5/3 it's unlikely we would play a wing only option in a big game.

Our best performance from a 10/12/13 this year has come from Burke/Hartley/Lozowski against Toulouse

Can’t understand why that combination hasn’t had another go (unless there’s injuries we don’t know about to Hartley and Loz)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:10:36:25 by MarkCol7.

Hartley isn’t injured as far as I’m aware but the club aren’t very good at communicating. He seemed to come through the prem cup matches unscathed though. Weird that he hasn’t played for Ampthill unless there’s a limit on loan players that can be used.

I think with a 5/3 and a few guys who can cover multiple positions Caluori would’ve been fine on the bench. Maybe they just thought it’s better for his development to play a full game. He’s still very raw after all.

A much better game than the first two ‘Big’ games yesterday.

Tomas Williams is 31 (not 33) and will be brilliant for Bracken to learn off and with International commitments there will be opportunities for Bracken to take. Thought CB played well yesterday.

Cinti was anonymous yesterday! Litchfield in a 13 v 13 totally outplayed him.

Thought Elliott & Segun justified their selections, not saying Calouri would have been any better/worse.

Quote:

MarkCol7
Our best performance from a 10/12/13 this year has come from Burke/Hartley/Lozowski against Toulouse
Can’t understand why that combination hasn’t had another go (unless there’s injuries we don’t know about to Hartley and Loz)

I personally dont agree with that combo being the answer but the sentiment is 1000% spot on.

Faz has been useless since he’s returned as I predicted.

Nt will always try hard but is just a bit one dimensional. As has been mentioned before on this forum, I think he’s a much better 13.

Cinti- yeah let’s not forget there.

Yet you can guarantee that theyll be picked next week at bath as they have been week in week out so far.

Quote:

tigersimon
A much better game than the first two ‘Big’ games yesterday.
Tomas Williams is 31 (not 33) and will be brilliant for Bracken to learn off and with International commitments there will be opportunities for Bracken to take. Thought CB played well yesterday.

Cinti was anonymous yesterday! Litchfield in a 13 v 13 totally outplayed him.

Thought Elliott & Segun justified their selections, not saying Calouri would have been any better/worse.

Mix up on ordering Williams will be 32 next season with James at 33
With Prem not playing in international windows very few Prem opportunities for Bracken. I just find it strange some of the decision making. eg Calouri all over the marketing for Showdown 6 then not in the 23 and sent off to Ampthill especially when he’s top try scorer in the league and barely played

Williams can’t play 80 every week, Bracken will come off the bench when he isn’t starting plus Williams isn’t without his injury issues. Caluori certainly could’ve played, off the bench would probably have suited but it’s not like our issues were on the wing.

Faz isn’t at the level he was but it’s nonsense to say he’s been awful. Been far better than he was in his last season with us.
But we simply have to get Fergus on ghe pitch more than we have.
His kicking a bit like Theo Dan’s throwing, stopping him from being a great player.
But at least we have seen improvements with Theo’s darts recently and lineout was no more secure with Jamie on.

The players on the pitch yesterday were more than good enough to win that game. The issue is the gameplan and structure far more than which winger is on the bench.

I dont buy the comparison with resigning players and Saints. Lawes left for a massive payday and the other 2 mentioned are at best on the same level as Loz who we let leave.

It is far easier to break up a middling team than one which has won everything on offer.

Our signings for next year have been about as good as they could be I would say. Yes. I'd love a monster tight head and a hard carrying 12, but so would every team and there arent that many about. More important is the coaching ticket allowing the squad to play to its strengths.

Quote:

The Bard
Faz isn’t at the level he was but it’s nonsense to say he’s been awful. Been far better than he was in his last season with us.
But we simply have to get Fergus on ghe pitch more than we have.
His kicking a bit like Theo Dan’s throwing, stopping him from being a great player.
But at least we have seen improvements with Theo’s darts recently and lineout was no more secure with Jamie on.

Fergus should be starting, not just “getting more game time”.

The end for me.

Find the fact that faz is starting absolutely barmy to be honest. Really no idea what he’s done to deserve it this season. I could point to numerous flashes of promise from Fergus this year (yesterday too to be honest). Oh and he’s a decade or so younger.

Been pleased with the improvement in Theo’s throwing this year. Still very hit and miss but not constant miss as it has been in years gone by.

Thought Jamie had a poor cameo yesterday to be honest. Would like to see Theo the majority of the time now.

Re-watching the game right now and if you wanted a snapshot of what the issue is re our attack right now watch from 38:30 with a Carre/Willis turnover of the ball-carrier.

A great turnover by Willis. Quick transfer to Tompkins.
The ideal here is almost certainly either for Tompkins to straighten and give and so commit the drifting defence and give us numbers or get the ball quickly to the wing in the hope of beating the drift and giving Elliott a 1v1 in space with Saints rear-most covering defender.
At this point Sarries have the numbers even with the Saints player coming to cover the backfield.

Instead it looks like Farrell calls for the ball and Tompkins drops it off to him without committing any defence. Farrell in space immediately passes to absolutely no one whilst also not committing any defence.
Both Cinti and Elliot are in a position to take a pass.
Ashton suggests that Farrell wants to hear a player calling for it but even if that's so he can see both players he has two options to hit and takes neither.
Even if he gets the ball to Elliot and the Saints defender who has gone for a possible intercept doesn't take it we have managed to create a 2 on 4.

It's genuinely quite an accomplishment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:13:36:05 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

The Bard
Faz isn’t at the level he was but it’s nonsense to say he’s been awful. Been far better than he was in his last season with us.

On the plus side we saw commitment and some physicality in defence, he disrupted a couple of Saints attacks at the breakdown. He also had a direct carry that got him over the gainline. Some of his positional kicking was very good.

We're putting a lot of our faith in his attacking partnership with Daly. The later joining the 13 channel from the backfield and it's pretty clunky.
Even on the Elliot try Flats is praising Farrell for slowing play down but the reality is he manages to throw the pass at shoulder height and behind Daly from a few metres away. It checks Daly's momentum and he's forced into an awkward bounce pass which Elliot finishes really well but normally would have resulted in a chance blown.

Add several passes to no one, kicks that didn't find vital touch and too much ball just thrown down the line with little in the way of variation of subtlety. You have a situation where he is attacking the line with Elliott on the inside and Carre outside and he is both looking and shaping to pass to Elliot so early. It makes the defensive read so easy.

Just before half time he identifies the space behind brilliantly and puts a little kick through but there is way too much on it. A little nudge through and he's got three Saracens players running onto it. Instead he makes one of only two Saints defenders with a chance of covering the more likely to get there first.

It kind of feels like someone whose "touch" just isn't there as it used to be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:13:57:49 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

Sarrov
The players on the pitch yesterday were more than good enough to win that game. The issue is the gameplan and structure far more than which winger is on the bench.
I dont buy the comparison with resigning players and Saints. Lawes left for a massive payday and the other 2 mentioned are at best on the same level as Loz who we let leave.

It is far easier to break up a middling team than one which has won everything on offer.

I’m not sure I agree with this.

Happy for any Saints supporter to correct me, i believe Ludlam and Furbank were/are club captains… a bit disingenuous to say they’re of equal importance to their respective squads as a third or fourth choice outside centre who has been injured for two seasons…

On the other points… surely we are a middling team? And that’s kind of the point. We haven’t “won everything” for years. I’m not convinced the players on the pitch or bench yesterday were good enough to beat Saints. They certainly weren’t good enough to beat Bath last week and won’t be good enough to beat Bath next week. Some of our guys were the very best around in their heyday but their heyday was 5-10 years ago.

I agree there are issues with style and structure. But I also think there are big issues with personnel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:14:32:25 by #wolfpack1.

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#wolfpack1

Quote:

Sarrov
The players on the pitch yesterday were more than good enough to win that game. The issue is the gameplan and structure far more than which winger is on the bench.
I dont buy the comparison with resigning players and Saints. Lawes left for a massive payday and the other 2 mentioned are at best on the same level as Loz who we let leave.

It is far easier to break up a middling team than one which has won everything on offer.

I’m not sure I agree with this.

Happy for any Saints supporter to correct me, i believe Ludlam and Furbank were/are club captains… a bit disingenuous to say they’re of equal importance to their respective squads as a third or fourth choice outside centre who has been injured for two seasons…

On the other points… surely we are a middling team? And that’s kind of the point. We haven’t “won everything” for years. I’m not convinced the players on the pitch or bench yesterday were good enough to beat Saints. They certainly weren’t good enough to beat Bath last week and won’t be good enough to beat Bath next week. Some of our guys were the very best around in their heyday but their heyday was 5-10 years ago.

I agree there are issues with style and structure. But I also think there are big issues with personnel.

Loz was our first choice 13 until being disrupted by injury.

Al Hargreaves was club captain, didn't make him a top class player.

We are a middling team now, but most of the players who people want moved on a multiple Premiership and European champs, British Lions, Grand Slam winners... Furbank and Ludlam are, at best, fringe internationals.

I am not saying they are currently great players, but that it is not hard to see why coaches would find it harder to move on from those that have done it in the past than those that havent.

This squad hasn't won everything lets be clear.
We have wom the Prem once since promotion with majority of this squad present since that point either 1st or 2nd visit.

Tompkins wasn't first choice back in 2019
Isiekwe wasn't anywhere near first XVI back in 2019.
George , Maro and Faz...thats it.

Rest of them won in 23 but since then have failed to deliver on majority of ovcasions when pressure has been on Sale h / Castres / Saints SF / Saints last year / Warriors this year...Toulouse and Tigers a are rarities

This squads prime players are aged and the selection and resignings deserve criticism as they don not merit the free passes we give them .

Both Nick T and Nick I were on the bench for 2019 finals

Quote:

JK12
This squad hasn't won everything lets be clear.
We have wom the Prem once since promotion with majority of this squad present since that point either 1st or 2nd visit.

Tompkins wasn't first choice back in 2019
Isiekwe wasn't anywhere near first XVI back in 2019.
George , Maro and Faz...thats it.

Rest of them won in 23 but since then have failed to deliver on majority of ovcasions when pressure has been on Sale h / Castres / Saints SF / Saints last year / Warriors this year...Toulouse and Tigers a are rarities

This squads prime players are aged and the selection and resignings deserve criticism as they don not merit the free passes we give them .

George, Daly and Faz are all players people want moved on. That's 1/5 of the side.

The "rebuild" also includes the last couple of season where we struggled to let go of Billy, Mako, Goode, Mainland etc.

At no point have I said criticism isnt deserved so again, like with the other thread, please stop misrepresenting my posts.

I am making s pretty simple point. Breaking up successful sides is far harder

P.S if coming off the bench for a European Cup Final is nowhere near 1st XV we had better take Nick I's medal off him...

Mailins, Daly and Christie are all players who have had injuries that have affected their acceleration and speed. Take that into account when you are pouring out your criticism. They all were in situations where they would have been much more effective in the past, before their injuries.

I think whether it's coaches or players their history is very relevant but to use it as a sign of their quality now is not.
100 caps doesn't mean you're good now it just means you were once. Ditto winning silverware being a Lion etc, etc.
If Furbank is fit he's England's FullBack and would have been the last couple of seasons.

Quote:

Sarrov
George, Daly and Faz are all players people want moved on. That's 1/5 of the side.
The "rebuild" also includes the last couple of season where we struggled to let go of Billy, Mako, Goode, Maitland etc

I think in some ways the above shows the issue Sarrov. The last "rebuild" would also have been a bit over 1/5 of the side. We probably kept them a little too long as you say but did we learn from that. I think the re-signings make that a legitimate question.

Quote:

Sarrov
I am making a pretty simple point. Breaking up successful sides is far harder

I think that's a valid point.

Very good point about the players Teacher-Peter.

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Teacher-peter (retired)
Mailins, Daly and Christie are all players who have had injuries that have affected their acceleration and speed. Take that into account when you are pouring out your criticism. They all were in situations where they would have been much more effective in the past, before their injuries.

For me these are just mere excuses I’m sorry.

Tobias had been out for months. In his first game back v bath a week ago he was impressive. Yesterday he was even more so. Looks almost more complete than he has done before.

Christie, to name just one of your examples, has been back for literally months. He hen has he done anything of note since like Tobias has?

To be polite, I’ll even allow Daly (being the wrong side of 30) some grief being back from injury but max? What has he done since returning other than being….”abject”.

And why are we the only club who when players come back from injury and aren’t great, do we go “oh well of course they aren’t as good. Shouldn’t expect it”?

I strongly believe that the coaches are letting sentimentality cloud their judgment. Too many players are being picked on reputation rather than form.

Nick I was terrible yesterday; he came on and made 3 mistakes in about 30 seconds which cost us time and possession.

I don't understand why we are playing Farrell; he is not the future. Where are Hartley and Loz? Why are we picking Cinti? Why did we re-sign AOC and Daly? Where is the other fly-half we signed from Newcastle?

I hate to say this but I want Mark to leave now and BV to come in for the remainder of the season. I’m also wondering if we need a new defence coach given the number of points we have shipped this season.

Our recruitment has, IMHO, been very poor for a number of seasons and we are now reaping the rewards. Other than Tom Willis, I am struggling to identify one standout player. Street is maybe getting there, and he was our 3rd attempt at picking a tight head.

Both Australia and New Zealand believe that if you are good enough then you are old enough. I would love to see us believe that.

Einstein said doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. And yet that is what the coaches are doing week after week.

My forecast is that the team will not change substantially for next week’s game, with the only changes being if Earl and JMG recover from injury.

I have been supporting Saracens since Bramley Road and have therefore experienced all of the highs and lows. This is the most frustrated that I have been for a long time.

Quote:

David@Sarries
I strongly believe that the coaches are letting sentimentality cloud their judgment. Too many players are being picked on reputation rather than form.
Nick I was terrible yesterday; he came on and made 3 mistakes in about 30 seconds which cost us time and possession.

I don't understand why we are playing Farrell; he is not the future. Where are Hartley and Loz? Why are we picking Cinti? Why did we re-sign AOC and Daly? Where is the other fly-half we signed from Newcastle?

I hate to say this but I want Mark to leave now and BV to come in for the remainder of the season. I’m also wondering if we need a new defence coach given the number of points we have shipped this season.

Our recruitment has, IMHO, been very poor for a number of seasons and we are now reaping the rewards. Other than Tom Willis, I am struggling to identify one standout player. Street is maybe getting there, and he was our 3rd attempt at picking a tight head.

Both Australia and New Zealand believe that if you are good enough then you are old enough. I would love to see us believe that.

Einstein said doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. And yet that is what the coaches are doing week after week.

My forecast is that the team will not change substantially for next week’s game, with the only changes being if Earl and JMG recover from injury.

I have been supporting Saracens since Bramley Road and have therefore experienced all of the highs and lows. This is the most frustrated that I have been for a long time.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Quote:

PaulHerox
I think whether it's coaches or players their history is very relevant but to use it as a sign of their quality now is not.
100 caps doesn't mean you're good now it just means you were once. Ditto winning silverware being a Lion etc, etc.
If Furbank is fit he's England's FullBack and would have been the last couple of seasons.

Quote:

Sarrov
George, Daly and Faz are all players people want moved on. That's 1/5 of the side.
The "rebuild" also includes the last couple of season where we struggled to let go of Billy, Mako, Goode, Maitland etc

I think in some ways the above shows the issue Sarrov. The last "rebuild" would also have been a bit over 1/5 of the side. We probably kept them a little too long as you say but did we learn from that. I think the re-signings make that a legitimate question.

Imo there is a difference in keeping experienced players in the squad as opposed to them being automatic picks. I can understand why you would want to have Daly staying considereding the young age of many of our back 3. One of Jack B, Tobias, Hall, Davidson or Keylock probably needs to move to 15 and will need guidance. Who better?

The problem has been the senior players getting selected even though there are other players in better form. This falls squarely on the current coaches and I am willing to give BV the benefit of the doubt for next season.

I will say again though - my point isnt that we shouldn't have rebuilt faster, but that it is much easier to do when a squad hasn't had a great deal of success.

Quote:

David@Sarries
I have been supporting Saracens since Bramley Road and have therefore experienced all of the highs and lows. This is the most frustrated that I have been for a long time.

Me too.

I agree with everything in David’s post.

I do not agree with the view that we couldn’t possibly play the younger players because “we need the experience only Farrells 15 years as a professional or Dalys 3 lions tours or whatever gives you” or the “key leadership of Jamie George.”

Results are the results.

We have those things and are losing and fairly frequently losing very badly.

Trying something different may not work, but imo they really need to try.

Really top quality cross-field kick from Farrell to McFarland in the second half then some nice link play from Daly to Itoje. Deserved a try after the offload from Itoje. A tackle a piece from Farrell and Daly on JJ with Dalys speed-bump being brave and essential in slowing him down ahead of being held up by Burke and Elliot.

Cinti is getting lots of criticism seems odd.

He's involved in some of our better attacking moments was our top carrier where he was strong carrying consistently over the gain line.
It's his little pass that sets Carre off on one of his two runs and he's there running support to take Onyema-Christies pass when Carre has offloaded to him. He gives the pass to Elliot running an unders line for the break out wide supported by Malins.

He was generally good in defence.
With Elliot stopped Pollock reaching over to ground the ball early on, missed a tackle but intercepted the offload for a turnover, he get's done by Pollock for a little ground lost and to be fair is very lucky that crossing rules out Pollock's try as that definitely would have been a costly miss.

The big one is right at the end. For me that is a miscommunication. The error I feel is Burke stepping in to take Christie's man and Cinti is unable to react to that as he is already closing the runner outside.
I can see that being put on him though which in the context of the game is obviously a very important miss.

I thought Onyema-Christie and Tompkins both had very busy games with really good defence and little moments in attack. Mitchelow was good when he came on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:18:09:01 by PaulHerox.

Not to pee on anyone's chips but those expecting big changes and the youth to get their chance under Venter are going to be disappointed I fear.

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PaulHerox

Quote:

Strangelove
Women’s game was pretty good, we raced into an early lead - 3rd quarter was scrappy, quite a few errors from both teams before we pulled away in the last 20.
Amelia was good, a fantastic 50/22 but I would not have given her PoM, personally. Poppy dominant, Gaby Senft or Royer would have been my PoM. Liv and Ayesha excellent as always. Great to see SDG back and unscathed. Sale were poor by their own recent form, couldn’t get their lineout to work and we held them up 3 times over the line - great defence prevailed. Really pleased that the league is more competitive these days, but GH and Sarries are clear of the field and dominating the league. Glad the women got to experience a big venue and be part of the big club event.

Thanks Strangelove.
I watched this morning and generally felt quite positive. I'm delighted for the team that they got to play is such a spectacular venue and record a good result.
The defence was brilliant and seeing the understanding of roles and above all communication was great. They defend differently to the Men's team but that communication is something the Men sorely miss. Great to keep Sale to nill but also well done to them for playing for points rather than taking any of several shots at goal.

To be honest maybe a bit sentimental but I'd have given Corrigan PotM. She was easily good enough to be in the conversation and her 50th at Tottenham would have been reward for one of our best players this season.

I'm glad they tried McDougall at 12 and that they stuck with it. Very early days and I don't think she made any mistakes but it was a little prescriptive with the tactic mainly being to use her as the second pass to get to wide to Breach and invite her to attack space in the defensive line or pass to the wing. To be fair it worked nicely several times but if it's coming almost every time smarter teams will either close it down or take advantage of it.

I think it definitely showcased some of our best rugby but we also coasted and played some less good stuff in the middle.
Credit to Sale too but for large portions of that game there was too much whiteline fever by the forwards whilst there was masses of space out wide. Those are exactly the chances we need to be aware of v the best teams.

I thought Breach had a good game and it was a shame she couldn't take the pass from Corrigan as that play really deserved a try. Great to see deGoede although a relatively quiet cameo.
Apps is just different level but it was good to see Sellors get more game time and do well after a poor start.

Do you have a feeling for what our best side is? I think we have to find a way to start both Omakhuale and Senft as they add hugely to our lineut and are brilliant in the loose.

Definitely would have Julia and Gaby, plus SDG in back row. Poppy and Laetitia in locks. Need that strength in the pack to take on GH, but also some agility. Very impressed with Julia, a great signing. Would mean Marlie coming off the bench.

Agree, Aleysha could’ve got PoM, such and intelligent player and real shame that move didn’t come off - they’d done the hard part!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:03:29:18:24:27 by Strangelove.

“I thought Onyema-Christie and Tompkins both had very busy games with really good defence and little moments in attack. Mitchelow was good when he came on.“

Tomkins always “looks busy” in attack but it very rarely comes to anything. Sometimes it gives off headless chicken vibes

Quote:

PaulHerox
Not to pee on anyone's chips but those expecting big changes and the youth to get their chance under Venter are going to be disappointed I fear.

I would genuinely be interested to know why you are so convinced on this?

From memory he was willing to back Faz and Goode first time around.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

PaulHerox
Not to pee on anyone's chips but those expecting big changes and the youth to get their chance under Venter are going to be disappointed I fear.

I would genuinely be interested to know why you are so convinced on this?

From memory he was willing to back Faz and Goode first time around.

Farrell was only backed by Venter after Hougaard got injured and the Henson signing flopped

Quote:

MarkCol7

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

PaulHerox
Not to pee on anyone's chips but those expecting big changes and the youth to get their chance under Venter are going to be disappointed I fear.

I would genuinely be interested to know why you are so convinced on this?

From memory he was willing to back Faz and Goode first time around.

Farrell was only backed by Venter after Hougaard got injured and the Henson signing flopped

Henson was pushed to the bench and 13 with Faz at 10 when playing the big name would have been easier.

Could also have moved the more established Goode back to 10 (where have we seen that recently...) with Wyles at 15.

Quote:

Strangelove
Definitely would have Julia and Gaby, plus SDG in back row. Poppy and Laetitia in locks. Need that strength in the pack to take on GH, but also some agility. Very impressed with Julia, a great signing. Would mean Marlie coming off the bench.
Agree, Aleysha could’ve got PoM, such and intelligent player and real shame that move didn’t come off - they’d done the hard part!

Is Galligan injured or not expected back this season do you know?

I really like that combination although after watching her play for Canada playing at lock had little impact on deGoede's effectiveness whereas Cleall seem to lose a bit by going there for me so I'd have her at 8 but it looks a great combination.
I like Royer a lot too. I think Packer would work well on the bench. Who would you put with her. Someone like Evans that cover 5-8 maybe.

Agree it really deserved to be scored.

Sarrov we'll just have to see!

Quote:

PaulHerox

Quote:

Strangelove
Definitely would have Julia and Gaby, plus SDG in back row. Poppy and Laetitia in locks. Need that strength in the pack to take on GH, but also some agility. Very impressed with Julia, a great signing. Would mean Marlie coming off the bench.
Agree, Aleysha could’ve got PoM, such and intelligent player and real shame that move didn’t come off - they’d done the hard part!

Is Galligan injured or not expected back this season do you know?

I really like that combination although after watching her play for Canada playing at lock had little impact on deGoede's effectiveness whereas Cleall seem to lose a bit by going there for me so I'd have her at 8 but it looks a great combination.
I like Royer a lot too. I think Packer would work well on the bench. Who would you put with her. Someone like Evans that cover 5-8 maybe.

Agree it really deserved to be scored.

Some saying Rosie injured, some saying off for personal reasons. Actually saw her at the Showdown there to support Marlie and the girls.

Yep, Evans on the bench with Marlie although would be harsh on Lou Mac.

Just read on Poppy's Instagram that she finished work at 7am on Saturday, had a kip at the stadium before the match!

"Finished work at 7am, thanks to @melanieantao and @santiago_houghton for the bedroom in the stadium, and onto the Showdown. Phenomenal effort from the team, nothing is better then representing @saracenswomen x"

Galligan was at the Glaws game too as you'd expect supporting her partner. Didn't look injured but you never know. Just interested if we're expecting her back this season.
Agree McMillan had played very well especially when captaining the PRC team but I feel other options maybe offer a little more.

Got to admire Poppy's work ethic Sarriebone.

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#wolfpack1

Quote:

Stevie Myler's right boot
As an outsider looking in you do have to question some of the logic of some of the signings/re-signings you’ve made recently and what that says about direction of travel. Looks like too many signings based on loyalty/past reputation rather than a genuine look to the future.

Yup.

This has been the way for the last 5 years or so. McCall and co look at players who did it for them before when they were the best in Europe or in some cases the world and blindly trust that they will do it agai

What is more frustrating is we have some genuinely good young players who not only deserve a chance but in many cases are better than the first teamers. Noah, Jack B, Luke Davidson etc all scoring for Ampthill yesterday. I think we’d have all rather seen Noah or Jack involved yesterday ahead of Malins. I’d rather they were in ahead of Daly as well personally.

The re-signing of players who are passed their best is in stark contrast to Saints who allow established club players to move on (Lawes, Ludlam, Furbank etc) rather than break the bank to keep them (or, worse, re sign them after they’ve left once) and allow them to keep plugging away. It’s a model we should follow but just won’t for some reason.

I hear you and as a Saints fan, we've been there.
We would of course love to have kept Courtney but couldn't get anywhere near the salary offered in France.
We're in a good place right now and will enjoy it until the cycle ends.
Sarries seem to have some great talent and hopefully they will be backed to the hilt soon.
It was pretty tight on Saturday and I wish you the best of luck for the rest of the season.
If you could see your way to beat the Tiglets from Pooh Corner, it would be much appreciated.
p.s Furbs hasn't quite left yet 😉