The Sinderberry interview

By Jason Harris
March 24 2003

Mark Sinderberry was Chief Executive at former Super 12 champions ACT Brumbies for seven years. Now the Australian who played rugby at State level in his youth has taken on what some people think an unenviable task: to take Saracens back to the top of the club game in England.

One month into a three-year contract with Men in Black, Sinderberry talks about his aspirations for Sarries and his thoughts on the game as a whole.

What was your proudest achievement during your time with the ACT Brumbies?

MS: "There are a number of ones you look back upon fondly; obviously winning the Super 12 title is one, but in think ultimately it's about consistency of performance that you look for both on and off the field so that you end up developing a sustainable business.

What do you feel was your contribution those successes?

MS: "I was one of several people in the organisation that made a contribution; all the coaches, players, directors and staff made significant contributions. On top of that you put the corporate sponsors, season ticket holders, all the fans. In some ways you end up being the focal point but, like the game of rugby, it takes a lot of people to make it work.

How did you come to hear about the CEO vacancy at Saracens?

MS: "I was speaking at a conference in London in November 2002 and I met up with Nigel Wray. We had a chat and it went from there.

How much did you know about the English game before moving from Australia?

MS: "Once a week I'd see a game at the weekend like you do Super 12 matches here in the UK. I was aware of the number of players travelling in this part of the world and also aware of some of the issues the game faced in terms of its relationship with the RFU, the relationship it has with its European partners, the length of the season and the number of games people play. I was aware of it because rugby is an international game and we [northern and southern hemispheres] are dependent upon one another.

What do you see as the biggest differences in the way the game is run in England compared to Australia?

MS: "The biggest single difference is that there are very clear windows when various competitions happen, where as over here it's mixed across all the various levels.

What are your thoughts on the current economic squeeze that has led to clubs cutting back on expenditure and players having to take pay cuts?

MS: "I think it's an adjustment. If we step back over a five or ten-year period we'll see that there has been, pretty much, constant growth and this will be seen as a dip in that growth. I think it's just the case that revenues haven't reached the projections. It was a necessary step and it's better to take a small step collectively now, rather than be facing bigger problems in eighteen months' time.

What has been the reaction of Saracens players to these cuts?

MS: "I'd say that to date the players, though they don't like it, certainly understand the situation and they should be complemented for that view which they have taken as a group.


What future do you see for the current large crop of overseas players in the Zurich Premiership and how do you think their presence affects the development of young English talent?

MS: "I think that what will happen is that we'll see fewer and fewer. There are a couple of issues at the moment that we face, one of which is the huge difficulty we have during a World Cup year with the number of players missing. So, in some ways your most expensive players are the least useful for you in the short term. In the longer term we very much have a role of developing young English players to reach their potential and I think we'll see a slight shift in emphasis there. We'll see greater emphasis on younger players complemented in very specific positions by high-profile internationals.

How do you think professional rugby will progress over the next few years?

MS: "If you look at the trends over the past four years it's very encouraging that there is growth, certainly in sponsorship and attendances. The success of the England team in recent years means that there is a lot to look forward to and the current dip is just a correction in a growth phase.

Which of your objectives at Saracens will receive immediate attention?

MS: "The immediate focus is firstly a longer-term planning process on how we put our squads together and secondly on how we run our business.

When do you think Saracens could turn a profit?

MS: "I think the reality is that it will be two to three years away. It's dependent upon a number of variables, some of which are out of our control, but certainly we'll putting everything in place to ensure that we get to a sustainable operational level, rather than some quick fix.

How much more difficult will it be to get people through the turnstiles if the team are doing poorly on the pitch?

MS: "It's always a challenge, however I think that what is possible is that through what Wayne Shelford has been trying to achieve in terms of playing attractive rugby, that the supporters to date have appreciated the efforts that have gone into how the team plays and I think as we become a little more focused on what we do, collectively we will start to see better results and that will certainly add to it. We have a huge role in being close to the community in this area and that will be the other major drive in terms of getting more fans to come to the games.

What do you know about the Fezboys?

MS: "I've heard a lot about them as they're fairly well-known around the world and I'm looking forward to getting to know them better in the coming months.

What message to you have to those supporters thinking of staying away due to the team's recent run of bad form?

"We can assure you that the playres are as disappointed as anybody in terms of their performance and we collectively share the frustrations as the players are always the biggest critics of themselves. It's certainly a difficult and frustrating time for everybody and rest assured that the players and staff are working very hard to rectify the situation. we have some exciting games coming up in the next few weeks and we encourage all supporters to remain part of things.