What will be a "success" next season?
Progress
By Stuart Anderton
May 25 2014
So how will we measure success next season. Silverware is unlikely, so what would constitute a good season?
For me it would be:
1) Qualify for the Champions Cup
Less a criterion for success, more one for non-failure. Getting in to the top competition is necessary and failure to do that would be, well, failure.
2) Get out of our CC pool
The real cost of losing to Quins wasn't a semi final place, it was dropping down a seeding tier in Europe. They haven't announced the system yet, but we'll now be tier 3 or even possibly tier 4. That means our pool will have two from: Toulon, Toulouse, Clermont, Montpellier, Leinster, Munster, Ulster or Glasgow. Qualifying will be a huge ask, and managing it would be a major success.
3) Get into the playoffs
So close this year, we need to do it next year to consider things a success.
Obviously I hope we'll do better, but if we achieve those three I think it will be a success.
We can be tilting properly at silverware in 15/16 when our youngsters are maturing, our post WC signing bedding in, and half of Sarries forwards going into retirement.
What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 10:50
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:05:27:13:45:52 by Stuart Anderton.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2014:05:27:13:45:52 by Stuart Anderton.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: SenorBath (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 11:20
In terms of the whole squad, I'd add a defence of the A-League Trophy, and reaching the final of the Anglo-Welsh. More practice in one of games has to be good for the team.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: rodoftherec (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 18:02
In my view if we finish comfortable top four we have done OK.
If we finish comfortable top three we have had a very good season.
If we finish comfortable top two then no matter what else we will have been very successful.
If we finish outside top four whatever the reasons / excuses - delete as appropriate - we have got nowhere and have made no progress over this season.
If we finish comfortable top three we have had a very good season.
If we finish comfortable top two then no matter what else we will have been very successful.
If we finish outside top four whatever the reasons / excuses - delete as appropriate - we have got nowhere and have made no progress over this season.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 19:26
Agree that those things would constitute the achievement of realistic targets. We can hope for more, but certainly not expect it. Next year is a dangerous one. This year's Amlin group comprised 6 matches of which 4 weren't far above United standard - the Champions cup will stretch resources a hell of a lot harder than that.
In order to have the successful season, as defined, we need:
- a trusted, viable option to GF at 10
- the ability to execute a properly organised drop-goal build-up
- Micky Young to step it up another 10%
- improved line out
- GF to take his place-kicking to the next level
- Sam Burgess to justify his price-tag
All of that and then the natural all-round development that you'd expect given that we have a young side with a lot of recent additions.
In order to have the successful season, as defined, we need:
- a trusted, viable option to GF at 10
- the ability to execute a properly organised drop-goal build-up
- Micky Young to step it up another 10%
- improved line out
- GF to take his place-kicking to the next level
- Sam Burgess to justify his price-tag
All of that and then the natural all-round development that you'd expect given that we have a young side with a lot of recent additions.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: pluko (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 20:52
Top 4 finish premiership
Quarter final place for Europe
Semi final for A league
Semi final for Anglo- welsh
Any more will be a bonus
Quarter final place for Europe
Semi final for A league
Semi final for Anglo- welsh
Any more will be a bonus
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 22:48
For me, given our current view of next season, we're a million miles from HEC winners, whether we get past the 1/4 ers isn't really that interesting. I would hope we get out of the group but would get over not getting out.
Likewise, I don't see I us winning the ap, we've not improved enough. I think we're weak at 9. So I'd like to see us get to four to show improvement, but not the end the world.
So lv. Apparently no one cares. But I think we need to win something.
I feel like we've decided to wait for after the wc, I think that Will lead to a wasted season and possibly players going off the boil in the mean time.
But if a dull outlook I'm afraid.
Likewise, I don't see I us winning the ap, we've not improved enough. I think we're weak at 9. So I'd like to see us get to four to show improvement, but not the end the world.
So lv. Apparently no one cares. But I think we need to win something.
I feel like we've decided to wait for after the wc, I think that Will lead to a wasted season and possibly players going off the boil in the mean time.
But if a dull outlook I'm afraid.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2014 23:15
"I feel like we've decided to wait for after the wc"
If we win the AV or the HC in 2016/17, I would say, 'nice job' Bruce. Can you think of a 'decision' other than massively abusing the salary cap that Bruce could have made that would have enabled us to win AV or HC before 2017?
If we win the AV or the HC in 2016/17, I would say, 'nice job' Bruce. Can you think of a 'decision' other than massively abusing the salary cap that Bruce could have made that would have enabled us to win AV or HC before 2017?
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: face_andy (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2014 07:53
Approved planning permission for a new stadium at the rec
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2014 10:08
No result in the LV, including winning it, would constitute a successful season for me.
Stuart
Former ed.
Stuart
Former ed.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2014 12:36
Winning the Rec appeal would constitute success. On the playing side unless we follow the measures outlined by Optimist I think we will be pushed to match this year's achievements. If we do top 4 could be a possibility but is more like in 15/16. Getting out of our group in the Rugby Championship would also constitute success.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Bri (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2014 12:44
I'd settle for the rec over everything.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 09:19
Top Four.
Win a knock-out game against Saints/Sarries/Tigers or European equivalent.
Rec appeals sorted and plans approved.
Couldn't care less about the LV. Given we won't be able to rest players in the Euro games anymore, we'll need to do so in that competition.
Win a knock-out game against Saints/Sarries/Tigers or European equivalent.
Rec appeals sorted and plans approved.
Couldn't care less about the LV. Given we won't be able to rest players in the Euro games anymore, we'll need to do so in that competition.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Awp (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 09:39
I'd settle for top 4, and then one of either Toulon, Toulouse, or Clermont in the Champions cup. Really don't fancy Northern France, Scotland or Ireland for my yearly trip away!
LV, and A league would be a nice bonus but not the end of the world if not. As for the Rec situation, I feel that we will probably still be debating things this time next year so not optimistic, therefore I can't be disappointed if no progress, yet overjoyed if there is!
So for me, all I really want is either Toulouse, Toulon, Clermont in that order please!
LV, and A league would be a nice bonus but not the end of the world if not. As for the Rec situation, I feel that we will probably still be debating things this time next year so not optimistic, therefore I can't be disappointed if no progress, yet overjoyed if there is!
So for me, all I really want is either Toulouse, Toulon, Clermont in that order please!
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: fat lock (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 15:24
In no particular order:
Evolution of attacking style of play built on a solid pack.
Being able to watch a kick for points not hiding behind my fingers
Top 4 finish
Beat Sale home and away
Beat London Welsh home and away
Beat Sarries or Northampton somewhere.
Not be embarrassed in Europe.
Evolution of attacking style of play built on a solid pack.
Being able to watch a kick for points not hiding behind my fingers
Top 4 finish
Beat Sale home and away
Beat London Welsh home and away
Beat Sarries or Northampton somewhere.
Not be embarrassed in Europe.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: CountryMike (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 15:45
Top 4 in the league must be the first target; that will clearly demonstrate progression.
In the European competition I want to see us compete first and foremost. Not worried about 1/4 final qualification just yet, but drop to the Amlin and we could well win it next time.
LV, as others have said this should be used to rest 1st team and bloody youngsters.
A-League; defend the title would be a fantastic result but I suspect the standard of the team will lessen this coming season without Bendy, Biggs, Henson, Caldwell etc
In the European competition I want to see us compete first and foremost. Not worried about 1/4 final qualification just yet, but drop to the Amlin and we could well win it next time.
LV, as others have said this should be used to rest 1st team and bloody youngsters.
A-League; defend the title would be a fantastic result but I suspect the standard of the team will lessen this coming season without Bendy, Biggs, Henson, Caldwell etc
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 16:08
No drop down to the Challenge Cup next season.
Stuart
Former ed.
Stuart
Former ed.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: cb2 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 16:21
The only success we can hope for is more realism from the fans as to where we are. We still have a squad of players who are 4,5,6 place at best and who get beat in semi finals. Sarries will be looking at their final defeat and looking at how they can win the thing next year. I am afraid that Bath are way off that. Burgess is a big signing but it would have been bigger if he had come over earlier and had a proper off season.
Without a top 9 and a hot shot goal kicker with the nerve to nail things in the last 10 minutes , we are not going to win anything. Ford reminds me of Catt. We need to take the kicking duties off him and let him concentrate on other parts of his game.
Without a top 9 and a hot shot goal kicker with the nerve to nail things in the last 10 minutes , we are not going to win anything. Ford reminds me of Catt. We need to take the kicking duties off him and let him concentrate on other parts of his game.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2014 16:32
I'd agree cb2 that we will not be AP/HC winners next season. But I hope and expect us to take a significant steps towards that, particularly in attitude and style of play, so it's realistic for 15/16 or 16/17. We have very young squad and aiming for them to mature to be top dogs in two or three years is realistic.
I don't agree about Ford, of course. He needs to nail just one more kick every other game to have the best strike rate in the league; it's a small improvement I'm confident he can make.
Stuart
Former ed.
I don't agree about Ford, of course. He needs to nail just one more kick every other game to have the best strike rate in the league; it's a small improvement I'm confident he can make.
Stuart
Former ed.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: cb2 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2014 07:25
Put two or three top players into our side, and then we have something special. However, as Optimist said, how can we get Danny Care, Halfpenny and George North without going over the cap? You look at Sarries and Toulon and you wonder how much it would take us to build such a squad.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: CountryMike (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2014 07:58
Taking both the Quins and Saints game at the end of this season we competed well for large periods of each game. However, when it came to those big match winning moments our opposition had their big game players standout, Wood, Lawes, Foden, Brown, Care, Robshaw. At present we don't have those seasoned internationals to call on, but a season or two from now the likes of Ford, Garvey, Watson could easily become our big game players that make the difference between winning and losing.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2014 08:06
Sarries have been very clever in their recruitment in signing from South Africa players who may be just past their prime and/or not reached the very top in SA but have a great attitude to succeed as a group. The likes of Strettle & Wrigglesworth have never been shoe ins for England. Others like Andy Goode have come through their youth ranks. They are not a team of super stars like Toulon.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: Barfer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2014 08:48
Top four in the AP. Quarter final in the CC (though I think this would probably be a step beyond us for another season or two), some set in stone steps forward regarding the Rec, starting with a successful appeal.
Oh, and wrestling Wilko away from Toulon to mentor George Ford and begin the coaching career that will see him eventually lead England to a World Cup win, bring an end to all wars, restore balance to the force and peace to the galaxy.
Oh, and wrestling Wilko away from Toulon to mentor George Ford and begin the coaching career that will see him eventually lead England to a World Cup win, bring an end to all wars, restore balance to the force and peace to the galaxy.
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: FairShout (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2014 10:48
Having at least 2 quality players competing for a starting spot in every position, including 9, 10 & 15
Realistically,competing for a top 6 spot as we are in the top tier of Euro competition not Amlin and will not have luxury of resting players
Winning home European matches in front of capacity crowd
Retaining the A league
Final of LV
Bath developing and producing 6 England players for RWC 2015
Realistically,competing for a top 6 spot as we are in the top tier of Euro competition not Amlin and will not have luxury of resting players
Winning home European matches in front of capacity crowd
Retaining the A league
Final of LV
Bath developing and producing 6 England players for RWC 2015
Re: What will be a "success" next season?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2014 11:02
Fairshout
On this season's showing we should not be far off 2,4, 5 & 6 of your points.
Point 1 could of course be a matter of opinion as to whether the competing player is quality -or even there is actual competition for the place.
Point 3 will depend to some extent on who we draw in the Euro CC.
PG
On this season's showing we should not be far off 2,4, 5 & 6 of your points.
Point 1 could of course be a matter of opinion as to whether the competing player is quality -or even there is actual competition for the place.
Point 3 will depend to some extent on who we draw in the Euro CC.
PG
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