MASSIVE CHALLENGE: BATH v ASM CLERMONT AUVERGNE

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:11:18:31:44 by P G Tips.

Many injuries on our side but must must win.
It will be difficult, but it's a good challenge.
Friday weather looks bad for us.

ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter

Ah but we have more injuries than you. PS bring a serious rain jacket. PPS great newish chippy on bog island.

I really, really hope we see a more positive dynamic performance from Bath!

I am going to Clermont so it would be fantastic to go there having won at the Rec

Interesting to read in both the Telegraph and Guardian about the quality of the Rec pitch being sub-standard this year. It does look worse than previous years and it seems to be impacting our ability to get any momentum in the backs, although our half-backs might have something to do with that too.

I don't really just want to win arm wrestles, but any win on Friday night would be a huge morale boost. That being said, Clermont will be an almighty challenge for our depleted XV, even in the rain.

Even though we're almost certainly out of Europe, it's a big night for the likes of Obano, Dunn and Stuart. If they can get one over a mighty French pack then their stock would rise a little higher. Obano has been one of this season's stars and he looks to have come back from his long term injury fitter than ever, so here's hoping he turns in a big performance. A try by one of the outside backs would be nice too.

Quote:

Bath Supporter Jack
I really, really hope we see a more positive dynamic performance from Bath!
I am going to Clermont so it would be fantastic to go there having won at the Rec

+1

Also going to Clermont, certainly will be more interesting if it's not a totally dead rubber.

When it's rained just about every day for the past 2 months is it any surprise the pitch is sub-standard this year.

I'd have gone for Massif Challenge myself

I think Brew is back this weekend. I’d expect him to fill the bench spot, if not start. RMcCon hasn’t exactly been tearing it up post WC.

You could have the best wingers in the world on the bath wings at the moment and they wouldn’t be able to show their thing.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Agreed but in that team that doesn’t give the ball to the wingers on the front foot much, Brew might be the better pick (defence, kick chase, coming in off his wing etc).

Yes I’m a big fan of Brew, one of those workhorses who unexpectedly came good for Bath.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Be nice to win & engender confidence but I’m more concerned that we don’t pick up yet more injuries. The Premiership is what matters & we are in a dogfight whatever anyone says.

At the end of the day , yes it would be great to get a win, however realistically at the moment the attack is just to blunt and doubt we could beat the "massif" in a forwards arm wrestle plus really the Prem should be the focus . So for me its an opportunity to go out and try something different , there's no pressure here, go out there lads and enjoy the game, get it wide and jouee jouee !

Quote:

dr.bath1865
I think Brew is back this weekend. I’d expect him to fill the bench spot, if not start. RMcCon hasn’t exactly been tearing it up post WC.

Very harsh given we have absolutely no attacking game plan and don't try to use our wingers.

I wouldn’t say it’s very harsh. Roko and Homer have made more of an impact IMHO and, as I mentioned, in a team with limited ambition and/or skill in the half backs, Brew might be a better pick.

Bath Rugby team to face Clermont Auvergne

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Jonathan Joseph
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Ruaridh McConnochie

10. Rhys Priestland
9. Chris Cook

1. Beno Obano
2. Tom Dunn
3. Will Stuart
4. Josh McNally
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Mike Williams
7. Josh Bayliss
8. Francois Louw (c)

Replacements

16. Jack Walker
17. Lewis Boyce
18. Christian Judge
19. Matt Garvey
20. Rhys Davies
21. Will Chudley
22. Freddie Burns
23. Aled Brew

Shame there is no Underhill, Batty or Ellis (again). I wonder if Cook is tactical or is Chudley out?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:05:12:18:16 by BathMatt53.

Clermont team

1. Loni Uhila
2. Yohan Beheregaray
3. Rabah Slimani
4. Arthur Iturria
5. Sitaleki Timani
6. Alexandre Fischer
7. Alexandre Lapandry
8. Fritz Lee
9. Morgan Parra (c)
10. Camille Lopez
11. Alivereti Raka
12. George Moala
13. Isaia Toeava
14. Samuel Ezeala
15. Benders

16. John Ulugia
17. Giorgi Beria
18. Davit Zirakashivili
19. Julien Ruaud
20. Faifili Levave
21. Greig Laidlaw
22. Peter Bethan
23. Apisai Naqalevu

Not AGAIN - Referee Andrew Brace he of the Toulouse fiasco!!!

Amazed that the election thread has more comments in the time that the teams have been up than this one...maybe we should start calling rugby threads O/T and the site 'come on my voters'?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Shame no Underhill and Ellis. Ellis offers a very good, safe line-out option as well as lots of the dirty, grunt work around the field. Good to see Brew back.

Still looking at the Clermont team of internationals and heavyweight forwards, I am not so sure a mud fest dog fight might be a good situation for Bath.

Let's hope we go out and play with freedom, and gain some confidence and form. I am not at all optimistic about a win but hope we really give it a lash. To get close would be good but we have to concentrate on the Premiership and especially London Irish in two weeks, who are certainly no pushovers and will be very difficult to beat.

Vital we have no more serious injuries.

C'mon you Bath.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:05:13:22:05 by Bathovalballer.

Matt, it's a bit difficult to be optimistic about the Brexit position, but even more so about Bath Rugby at the moment so I guess most people are just keeping their heads down hoping for best but expecting something else. If only we were trying to play rugby and losing it would not be too bad but our game plan is so negative it is sucking every attacking thought out of the players

I am a fan of Cook, he does make mistakes but generally gives it a good go.

Be good to see my namesake back at the Rec!
He looked a bit iffy under the high ball against Ulster - something to aim at?

Quote:

BathMatt53
Amazed that the election thread has more comments in the time that the teams have been up than this one...maybe we should start calling rugby threads O/T and the site 'come on my voters'?

Maybe with the game being such a mismatch there isn't much to say?

Pinning my hopes on the heavy pitch making it a closer game.

Good Luck Bath. Chance for a few guys to really put their hand up and show they deserve to be starting. I like the 1-5 and 12 to 15 of our team, Cook and Priestland for me are a relegation battle combination.

Quote:

Boldangrey
Pinning my hopes on the heavy pitch making it a closer game.

I think French teams are used to playing on heavy pitches, so not convinced it will keep the score down.

Whoever wins, I hope that we see some exciting, entertaining rugby at the Rec.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

To coin a song title, I predict a riot!

hmm Priestland

Is it on telly?

Whenver I go on BTs website it takes me ages to work out whats on - advice?

Aaah found it yes it is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:06:12:38:03 by Woodpecker .

Well if its wet and Chris Cook has got his box kicking back to last year's standards and Rhys simply punts and hopes like he normally does then their back 3 will think Xmas has come early

Reckon Roko and McConnochie are going to need a few warm layers as they won't be seeing much of the ball.

I wonder if Freddie's calf/cramp problem are (at least in part) an explanation of why RP continues to be first choice? I can't think of another reason. I'm starting to feel nostalgic about Chris Malone.

Having said that, I wouldn't be that surprised if we squeezed out a win and RP is man of the match. We're a bit like a broken clock - we stay put, and every now and then the weather, circumstances, opposition and ref's guesswork at the scrum and breakdown conspire to make it seem like we're showing the right time.

I’m afraid your pitch is a disgrace to Prem rugby


enough of the romance Mr Craig and spend money on an out of town facility

No. Thanks for your contribution.

Quote:

hasta
No. Thanks for your contribution.

Very gracious Hasta far more than I would have been whilst conveying the same answer.

LOL he is still salty about Saints getting beaten on that disgrace of a pitch!

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

As someone said to me recently, it rained so much in Oct and Nov that all those winners of Bullseye in the 1980s have finally got a use for their speedboats.

But the point about the pitch does stand up. imv.
Fair enough the weather has not been helpful but when is the pitch up to standard?
Having said that, better than plastic...

After 3 minutes from ko of ever going backwards in possession and Priestland labourisly shovelling it out only for Lopez then to ping us back into our 22 I despaired

Then Priestland discovered how to run with the ball

Then we got the Priestland we know but do not love

Jeez, supporting the BBW comes with a big price

Why do BT Sport make us suffer a biased French man.

Oh FFS. We really have no luck.

Absolutely Hasta, we have none whatsoever.

We have at least in patches shown a bit of ambition. It has mostly been a lot of huff and puff but a lack of genuine quality. I'm not sure luck has had that much to do with it second half

Quote:

ilovebathtime
We have at least in patches shown a bit of ambition. It has mostly been a lot of huff and puff but a lack of genuine quality. I'm not sure luck has had that much to do with it second half

Completely agree. I left watching that game totally confused

Are we just a few tweaks away from clicking and roaring up the league?

Or are we perennial go backwards, lose possession and face possible relegation?

Answers on a postcard to ...

Good fun first half, but unlucky potentially going from 14-0 to 7-7.

Second half poor handling, too many pens, running into each other, falling off tackles unfortunately.

At least they gave it a go. Not sure some of our players really have the skills for that expansive and rapid game though.

Cook, RP, Stuart and Williams good I thought. A couple of players not good enough for this level by quite a long way IMO.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:06:21:56:00 by BathMatt53.

I hate to say this but Hooper looked utterly lost in the post match interview...

wow, i thought you were good value for a lead and eventual win on the basis of the first half...???

It was stupid to go into a season without a credible head coach. Unlucky injuries aside the strategy and blunt attack really has cost us. I remember watching a game a few years back where The captains were Borthwick for Saracens and Hooper for Bath. Guess who bossed the game, Bath’s ex captain Borthwick! Things haven’t changed the owner has made the wrong call again.

The bad luck was their try seconds after the kickoff. They made a mess of it, it ping ponged around and broke to their number 8. Well executed after that, but that bounce off the ball is just not going our way at the moment. CF charge downs Vs Ulster.

Never expected to win. Some good things. Much bad.

Bottom seeds, no (good) luck, bottom of group. Why are we surprised??

A lot of fans around us saying they'll go and watch their local club from now on. The capitulation after a decent first half was spineless.

Also bad lack with the ref at the maul for their first try. Clear infringement.

On the match I got the impression RP was told not to kick and that the plan was to to set for a rolling maul at every opportunity. Perhaps the no kick policy was the fear of Nick Abendanon running it back!
I really don't think Bath were that bothered about winning that match or they would have taken at least one shot at goal.

Back row has a big hole in it now!

PS Why isn't Nick Abendanon available for England.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I thought that was one of the most naive & inept performances I have seen in a long time. Our game seems to be steadily dismantling, even the pack & lineout which looked so impressive in pre-season are beset by inaccuracies & indiscipline. We scorned several good opportunities for a decent halftime lead & then found all sorts of imaginative ways to concede ridiculous tries in the second half. It is difficult to imagine who we are capable of beating at the present time. We are just so naive.

Quelle surprise. I was tiling the kitchen, even though I had a ticket. I’m glad I didn’t miss out.

Don't you think that's a bit harsh BH, it was a nothing game after 2 defeats, parity for 50 mins, Rory Mc and Rokko saw some ball, backs scored from 10 and 13 and two big unlucky incidents.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I have to say having watched the game we seem really very soft and completely devoid of ideas, I honestly thought when we tapped in the first half wow we are going to have a go, but no we reverted 2nd half to utterly rudderless, naïve and clueless ru

Bit of a bizarre game really. Long stretches of the usual turgid dross resulting from slow ball and the inevitable poor box kick interspersed with patches of ‘chuck it around like the Harlem globe trotters’. If we have a plan to move this team forward them I’m blowed if I can see it.

Lots and lots of empty seats too. I hope because a number of fans are as sick to the back teeth of Friday night rugby as I am and that the dullards that run our game start to realise this. Despite our terrible form I see that Sale at 3pm on Saturday 28th is a sell out. I know it’s Christmas but surely the Friday night experiment has run its course.

I have to say having watched the game tonight we seem really very soft and completely devoid of ideas, I honestly thought when we tapped in the first half wow we are going to have a go, but no we reverted 2nd half to utterly rudderless, naïve and clueless rugby, I didn't think Clermont were that special but we made them look good.lp
This performance particularly with the loss of Flouw causes me to be grateful for the Tigers and Wasps current form.
The quality of the squad is simply not good enough and players just don't seem to be enjoying the game, someone is going to have to out their hand up and take this group of players on a journey of discovery and maybe they will start enjoying playing rugby again, then the results will take care of themselves.
All we can do as fans is continue to attend each week and cheer them on. A penny for Mr Craig's present thoughts...Maybe Hoops and Mr McDonald should go straight home and unplug their phones tonight!!

Quote:

Ali1969
This performance particularly with the loss of Flouw causes me to be grateful for the Tigers and Wasps current form.

I don’t think you can rely on us beating any team playing like that, even Tigers. & Wasps. In fact, haven’t we already even failed to get a bonus point against Wasps? It was inevitable that Flouw would pick up an injury, he always does. As usual we can expect Faletau to return just in time to represent Wales. We are practically cleared out of our international contingent now which is going to make survival in the Premiership even harder.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:07:00:26:44 by Bath Hammer.

You make your own luck, as instilled reactions and skills will always shine through. Regrettably some of that Bath team are not up to the standards, skills and intuitive play of our opponents.

They scored the decisive try from Walker"s overthrown line out that gave up field position and the resulting bouncing ball, was not fallen on. All the best sides can strike as soon as they get an advantage, see an opportunity and have the ability to convert the chance. We had chances but do not have the whit to break down a professional defence with slight of hand, slick passing and handling. We were pedestrian and way below the class players opposite us. We fell apart and did not have a clue how to stop Clermont from playing.

Why didn't we kick that potential score levelling penalty in front of the posts instead of losing possession again through our static, toothless driving maul? Winning this game we were told is an absolute priority and therefore taking points at every opportunity is a must against a top side.

Why did we take off Dunn, and Obano so soon? The lack of Dunn's aggressiveness in the tackle was missed and we were still in the game at that stage. Those substitutions seemed to me that we didn't believe we could win and therefore decided to protect some guys .

I must say I wonder what Garvey is about.Also, we still never managed to pass the ball to either of our excellent wingers in space. Some of Robert's handling was way below the standard expected of an experienced international.

Personally, I believe we should send a reserve/shadow side to Clermont as we need all the first choice players to be fit and firing for the Irish game. The league has to be our priority now and this game is taking on more importance than ever with our need for points and to restore a semblance of confidence and form.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Quote:

Bathovalballer
Personally, I believe we should send a reserve/shadow side to Clermont as we need all the first choice players to be fit and firing for the Irish game. The league has to be our priority now and this game is taking on more importance than ever with our need for points and to restore a semblance of confidence and form.

+1. The way things are going we’ll barely be able to put out a half decent side

Just watched the game. I thought we didnt play badly. 1st half excellent, matched CA and created linebreaks and chances. 2nd half killed by an overthrow and 2 pieces of really bad luck - the loss of Louw and the second of their 2 quick tries.

No point breaking any more 1st teamers in pursuit of a hopeless cause. Start the reserves for all further Euro games and treat them as opposed training exercises.

It's worth saying that this is the sort of decision where a DoR really earns his corn. It will be interesting to see what Hooper decides.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:07:03:27:21 by joethefanatic.

Didn’t Saints get fined for fielding a weakened team a couple of years ago (I note that Sarries aren’t being fined mind you). The next 3 prem games are simply huge for the club so whatever it takes to get our best uninjured team on the pitch against LI please.

Bath Chron has the player ratings which are...well...let’s say ‘generous’ for a team that got comprehensively beaten on the scoreboard. Lots of 7s and 8s:

[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:07:08:00:58 by BathMatt53.

Quote:

Ali1969
This performance particularly with the loss of Flouw causes me to be grateful for the Tigers and Wasps current form.

Tigers and Wasps at least offer some attacking threat, which Bath do not. Aside from 2 pieces of individual skill last night the attack was directionless and error strewn yet again.

Is BC even watching Bath games? If he is he has to call time on project Hooper by the end of this year otherwise it's going to be too late to repair the damage.

Blaming bad luck is just as bad as blaming a referee, they are just excuses papering over the fact we were well beaten. Not unexpected, a lot of contributors have been predicting this since our new coaching structure was announced. It may change, we may suddenly click and start playing attractive rugby but listening to Hooper after the game it seems as if we do not seem to have a plan B and hope that there is at least one team worse than us at the end of the year.

Possibly the most worrying aspect of Bath performances is that they are playing to their maximum potential, i would never call their commitment and effort into question, but there is a pattern emerging namely defeat after defeat.

Quote:

Rawce
Quelle surprise. I was tiling the kitchen, even though I had a ticket. I’m glad I didn’t miss out.

The first half was one of the more fun halves of watching Bath Rugby for a while, the weather was ok too. Although nothing much came of them, it got the crowd buzzing when they decided to go for it with all the pens etc.

I’m not sure why there are so many notes of depression above - CA are one of the best teams in Europe and Bath ‘had a go’. Isn’t that what people on here we calling for? Ok they lost their way and the game in the second half, but I’m not sure it’s worth shedding a tear over.

(Yes they will get whacked next week as well, so best put the earplugs in and the crash helmet on after that one).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Thought Cook's speed of service meant some improvement in back play but we lack a player at the moment who gives us a focus in attack e.g. a fly half or number 9 who poses an attacking threat from set piece. The players are still committed and giving their all , don't underestimate the effect on a team of bad luck leading to tries in effectively a dead rubber.

It wasn’t the 9 or 10 for me last night, the differences in 12 play was notable for me. Their 12 smashing holes and then keeping it alive and unloading to supporting players. JR either seems to pass standing still so doesn’t draw a man or goes into full crash mode straight to ground for the recycle. Their defence keep just wrapping around and taking the space. A big 12 who can smash AND offload when possible would open a lot of space for JJ etc IMO.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Left the Rec straight after their 3rd try last night followed by a few more unhappy supporters who gathered at the bus stop. We competed well in the first half but CA clearly upped the pace of their game after h/t and their two tries in 90seconds killed us off. We are the 4th seed in this pool so I shouldn't expect to much but it's the hope that kills me.

Cook was an improvement on Chudley and RP astonished us all with his blindside break but I would also start with FB at 10. It looks like we aren't going to win many so can we at least try and play some attractive rugby starting with more wit and invention at 10. J Roberts was busy last night but JJ is almost redundant outside him whilst Roko and RMc are living off scraps only getting the ball in space when the opposition kick it to them.

The forwards worked hard all night but it was a poor return on their investment. Much effort but little achievement sums up where we are just now sadly...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

BathMatt53
Didn’t Saints get fined for fielding a weakened team a couple of years ago (I note that Sarries aren’t being fined mind you). The next 3 prem games are simply huge for the club so whatever it takes to get our best uninjured team on the pitch against LI please.
Bath Chron has the player ratings which are...well...let’s say ‘generous’ for a team that got comprehensively beaten on the scoreboard. Lots of 7s and 8s:

[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

It is interesting Matt, several press reports are saying similar about our performance. Not as bleak as on here at all.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

[sport.bt.com]

Post match interview
Tim Cocker: “You said this was a knockout game, that seemed to give you a freedom to the way you played in the first half, is that the blue print for the future?”
Hooper: “No”

Shame, I thought the first half was pretty good, with Cook adding some pace to play. Probably should take 3 points from penalties right in front of the post though.

Quote:

shipwrecked

Quote:

BathMatt53
Didn’t Saints get fined for fielding a weakened team a couple of years ago (I note that Sarries aren’t being fined mind you). The next 3 prem games are simply huge for the club so whatever it takes to get our best uninjured team on the pitch against LI please.
Bath Chron has the player ratings which are...well...let’s say ‘generous’ for a team that got comprehensively beaten on the scoreboard. Lots of 7s and 8s:

[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

It is interesting Matt, several press reports are saying similar about our performance. Not as bleak as on here at all.

I'd agree with the ratings for the first half, but would give mostly 4's and 5's for the second half.

First half was great - best all season, easily.
Second half was a clueless pants parade of feckless penalties and ineptitude. We rolled over like a pathetic labrador.
What the hell happened in the changing room?!

SHOCK HORROR! Bath Rugby lose again and Stuart Hooper remains blasé’ about the whole thing!
Once more our European journey comes to an abrupt end. It feels like I shall never see any more silverware in my lifetime. Something big needs to change NOW !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

In answer to what was said in the dressing room, I think Clermont woke up and realised by upping the pace a little, as Bath had nothing to offer apart from effort without skill or invention and being able to execute, the game was theirs. Certainly as Bath's wind gave out, the weaker substitutions, so it proved as we couldn't live with them.

Shame after a competitive first half performance.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

"Never expected to win. Some good things. Much bad."

Pretty much summed up my view there Hasta. And Priestland's performance has it in a nutshell. A couple of stand out things, his try notably being the big surprise to get the hope flowing but then, jeez it was generally same old dross. Deep and static in receipt of ball, slow and choreographed in passing

Agree with others though that Cook does look to have upped the pace on his game and his box kicking has certainly improved

The result was no surprise, but while Bath's first half zip gave some cause for rising hope, it inevitably collapsed in the second.
With Bath's on-paper squad we can always hope and expect that the odd flash of brilliance will burst through - but the problem is, it is never sustained for eighty minutes.
There is an innate weakness running through the spine of this Bath team that never allows the class to show or the spirit to fire over a full match. There is something rotten in the state of the Rec. It might be easy to point fingers at DORs, owners, officials, injuries or misfortunes, but it ultimately comes down to the players. The team, collectively and individually, is not working. Team spirit seems low, fractured and fragile, there is no leadership or cohesion, players are playing for themselves not their team mates. skill levels poor, indiscipline rife. All the signs of a seriously un-together team.
And un-together teams get riddled with judicious injuries and head nowhere but to the bottom.
Perhaps Hooper can revolutionise the Bath game approach, by getting the squad together and telling them they are in charge of training, game plan and selecting the team for Irish . Then Hooper can sit the week out in his suit. Can't do any worse than current, and it might galvanise team spirit for the better. You never know, Bath team players might even actually genuinely begin to like and play for each other.

Stuart Hooper “We didn’t get our details right” is that the same details as in the previous losses? I wonder what it’ll be after next weeks game!

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Clermont forum saying the following, Laidlaw was a vital part of the win, Abendanon was back to his best form, Ezeala is a new talent and Moala and Toeva were strong in midfield.

They are saying for 65 mins the game was in doubt and that the breaks Bath made were not capitalised on due to lack of confidence in that respect they recognise they were lucky.

They question what was Louw doing on the pitch.

Little doubt in my mind their New Zealand backs won the game for them.

Final point, they were critical of the pitch.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I thought we deserved something from a game where we were the better team for 74 of the 80 minutes. Some horrible (not playing to the whistle, our attack beyond 5 phases, some silly lineouts) but some good (ambition, scrum, the majority of our line out work, Williams, JJ).

Also if we had back row options including Underhill, Ellis, TF and Zach, we might be able to truly compete. As good a player as Davies may become, losing Louw turned the game.

I don’t want to make excuses. There are deep problems and I realise the second half was pretty inexcusable. But I’d love to see us playing regularly in front of a home crowd on a surface like at Franklins Gardens. Seeing Roko, JJ and Homer unsure of their footing and slipping and sliding into contact was painful. I know it’s the same for both teams, but our home games are being turned into miserable spectacles, with error counts and referees deciding matches. Versus Saints and Exe, we won the arm wrestle. But I’d rather we lost a few and got to enjoy some half decent rugby.

Yes, our problems run deeper than the pitch and our injuries. But they’re the factors, IMHO, making the whole thing pretty unenjoyable at the moment.

Well Saints doing something similar. Decent first half then leinster step it with 2 more tries for a 15 point lead

Yes Gaz, the two games are quite similar.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

A lot of Saints pressure in and around the red zone, plenty of opportunities then let down by handling errors

Remind us of another team?

Quote:

gaz59
A lot of Saints pressure in and around the red zone, plenty of opportunities then let down by handling errors
Remind us of another team?

You are not seriously comparing the quality of play from Saints today with Bath last night?

The scores may well have been similar and at the end of the day winning is key, but the quality of play from Saints was way beyond what we have demonstrated this season.

Good point. There's no comparison... Saints conceded 7 tries. We only conceded 4.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

gaz59
A lot of Saints pressure in and around the red zone, plenty of opportunities then let down by handling errors
Remind us of another team?

You are not seriously comparing the quality of play from Saints today with Bath last night?

The scores may well have been similar and at the end of the day winning is key, but the quality of play from Saints was way beyond what we have demonstrated this season.

No of course not OB, no side can ever be as bad as Bath!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I thought Hooper's comment (from the BBC match report) was very telling:

On Bath's attacking intent: "That was specific to this game and sometimes we will play like that, but we let it get away and that is why the lads are hurting so much."

So, anyone thinking we witnessed the nascent stages of a vibrant, free-running, attacking Bath may well be disappointed.

Let’s sign the right players In January to allow us to play that game next year, do whatever we can to get through the year in a not bottom position and go for it next year...this year I just don’t think they have those skills - pushing a square peg into a free flowing round hole will end in tears.

Out of interest I could name a few best playerS in the world in most positions but I would really struggle at 12. Assuming that they would join, who would be the Best money-no-object 12 in world rugby at the moment?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

FourSticks
I thought Hooper's comment (from the BBC match report) was very telling:
On Bath's attacking intent: "That was specific to this game and sometimes we will play like that, but we let it get away and that is why the lads are hurting so much."

So, anyone thinking we witnessed the nascent stages of a vibrant, free-running, attacking Bath may well be disappointed.

So we're criticizing the coaches for having a variety of game plans? That seems a bit rich.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic

Quote:

FourSticks
I thought Hooper's comment (from the BBC match report) was very telling:
On Bath's attacking intent: "That was specific to this game and sometimes we will play like that, but we let it get away and that is why the lads are hurting so much."

So, anyone thinking we witnessed the nascent stages of a vibrant, free-running, attacking Bath may well be disappointed.

So we're criticizing the coaches for having a variety of game plans? That seems a bit rich.

Although evidence of a game plan that involved winning would be nice, I'll give you that.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

BathMatt53
Let’s sign the right players In January to allow us to play that game next year, do whatever we can to get through the year in a not bottom position and go for it next year...this year I just don’t think they have those skills - pushing a square peg into a free flowing round hole will end in tears.
Out of interest I could name a few best playerS in the world in most positions but I would really struggle at 12. Assuming that they would join, who would be the Best money-no-object 12 in world rugby at the moment?

As a 12 for us? Sonny Bill Williams

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

shipwrecked

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

gaz59
A lot of Saints pressure in and around the red zone, plenty of opportunities then let down by handling errors
Remind us of another team?

You are not seriously comparing the quality of play from Saints today with Bath last night?

The scores may well have been similar and at the end of the day winning is key, but the quality of play from Saints was way beyond what we have demonstrated this season.

No of course not OB, no side can ever be as bad as Bath!

With a 25% win rate in competitive matches this season, you've got to admit we are certainly one of the worst?

I guess I'm letting the frustration at the lack of accountability in the coaching setup get the better of me.

SBW and a time machine, fair enough. How about next season on say a 2 or 3 year contract?

(In terms of a 9 I do love that little French kid Antoine DuPont.)

A Devoto type 12 would be good, big but also good hands. Injured a lot recently though. The Huge Ulster lad McKlosky is a handful too. I still think Joe C has the size, speed and hands to make a good 12 tbh.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:07:16:27:04 by BathMatt53.

Quote:

BathMatt53
Let’s sign the right players In January to allow us to play that game next year, do whatever we can to get through the year in a not bottom position and go for it next year...this year I just don’t think they have those skills - pushing a square peg into a free flowing round hole will end in tears.
Out of interest I could name a few best playerS in the world in most positions but I would really struggle at 12. Assuming that they would join, who would be the Best money-no-object 12 in world rugby at the moment?

First to come to mind would be Fofana but I like this guy, Vatabua, having said that and I really don't want to upset you but I'll always thought Semi was an ideal 12.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Too soon to mention the SR word SW, too soon...

I’m going to stand by my (perhaps controversial) view that if you were writing a recipe for an ideal 12 then JC would pretty much tick those boxes. He takes multiple tackles and makes the space with his one hand offloads that JJ would dream of. He would also touch the ball more than once a game.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Didn't think Saints were all that special. Some pretty attacking patterns at times, one or two lovely breaks and a lot of huff n puff in the 22 but end result was a humping

Very similar in many ways

Just watching quins now and wondering if the Sarries way is the only way English teams can compete in Europe?

That's a good point Matt, Eddie used him as a trespassing centre from the wing in one of the warm up games and he looked OK at that getting over the gain line. Only issue is his defence, you would need a good coach to help him through that.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

JC defence seems to be a problem only when he rushes up and leaves space on the outside. As a 12 he wouldn’t be isolated as much. I’m convincing myself here!!

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Perhaps not, his handling is better than most wingers, at 12 his reach would make him a threat, he also doesn't seem to go to ground as easily as JR. I'm not convinced he will stay out there on the wing with that threat. Interestingly Josh Adams may well shift to 13 from the wing as one of Wayne Pivac's new projects.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Adams is like Nowell - so busy I’m sure he could play convincingly in most positions in the backs.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Have to feel sorry for quins there but jeez what could we do with a player like cooney at 9. Or care for that matter?

Quote:

gaz59
Have to feel sorry for quins there but jeez what could we do with a player like cooney at 9. Or care for that matter?

Quins had it until the stupid penalty at the end. Bath and Quins out now.

If sarries need to offload players I would love for us to sign nick Tompkins.
Is Willison injured? I never feel that he does a great deal, but would be good to have a different option

With all the luck Ulster are having who would bet against them winning it! Could easily have been 3 defeats out of 3 for Ulster

Quote:

dannyf2
First half was great - best all season, easily.

I was utterly frustrated after that first half & was convinced we would lose the match. We created at least 4 excellent opportunities, including the Cook break from which Clermont would definitely have scored, but due to poor execution, lack of anticipation & not supporting the runner we butchered all of them. To add salt into the wound Clermont scored from the one chance they had because of weak defending, although they should have been penalised. I’m not sure the referee did us any favours but that always seems to be the case when they perceive one team is on top. Was the ball won legally for that 4th try ?

Quote:

Joe The Fanatic
So we're criticizing the coaches for having a variety of game plans? That seems a bit rich.

No, not criticising having a variety of game plans. I was, however, criticising game plans that are based on negativity (i.e. playing to avoid losing) and/or underutilising our key players. Even Healey commented that Bath looked to be getting back to a mindset where we are using our best players more effectively.

I think Austin, irritating little fecker though he undoubtedly is, would make an outstanding coach - and not necessarily just of the backs.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

I am sure that this will cause a number of comments BUT !! Nakarawa sacked by Racing 92. Good short term cover for us looking at cap dispensation for injuries [ of which we have a few longterm!!!] ?

Still in Bath tonight, back to France tomorrow.
I would like to thank Bath supporters for their warm and nice welcome.
Hi David, at the Ring O Bells, Stuart, at The Apple tree, and some others.
Fairplay supporters during or after the match, despite of the result.
Look forward to come again in Bath, great Rugby place and beautifull city.

ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter

Thanks for your kind words LM. Best of luck to CA for the rest of the competition.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

The one signing I would like Bath to make as soon as they’re ready - one which isn’t completely beyond the realms of possibility - would be Stuart Lancaster to join as HC, working under DoR Hooper and leading our coaching staff. That’d do it for me.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
The one signing I would like Bath to make as soon as they’re ready - one which isn’t completely beyond the realms of possibility - would be Stuart Lancaster to join as HC, working under DoR Hooper and leading our coaching staff. That’d do it for me.

Yes - I would be happy with that. I have been supportive of Hooper & still think he may come good as he has lots of qualities. However, he did really need to cut his teeth at a Championship club or the division below to give that grounding in what running a coaching team is all about. Anyone starting out will make mistakes & learn from them. That would have been best achieved at a lower level.

Alex Lozowski please. Out of contact at sarries next summer and out of favour.

I question the game plan.

We held them in the first half because we kept the ball and rarely kicked. (interesting to see the possession stats.) When we did kick, it was almost always for touch. Old maxim - if Clermont don't have the ball they can't score.

Second half we played a kicking game, missed touch far too often, kicked too deep for the chasers or, or worse still, kicked to Abendanon to run back at us.

Had we kept the first half's game plan we could have edged it.

Possession: 64% 1H, 38% 2H
Territory: 67% 1H, 32% 2H

[www.espn.co.uk]

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53
Possession: 64% 1H, 38% 2H
Territory: 67% 1H, 32% 2H

[www.espn.co.uk]

Thank you Matt. I think that proves my point.

I’m surprised at the sprinkling of positivism on this thread. What I saw was a team devoid of ideas and with no clue how to deliver quick ball play a static game with very little penetration. The admittedly enjoyable distractions came from one a handful of one off plays from high class internationals that tried for the blink of an eye to play their game despite the incoherent game plan.

As an example Priestland try came from (i) turning down a kickable penalty (ii) half a dozen phases shuffling side to side but going no where (iii) the realisation that that RP was about to be charged down attempting a drop goal from the same field position as the original penalty and (iv) a straight break to the corner for the try. Now that may be a planned moment of rugby genius or a one off decision to rescue 2 minutes of completely brain dead rugby. You decide ?

Positivity comes from them trying different things, whether they came off or not. It’s depressing being depressed about everything and anything.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

+1

Kicking game from half backs lets is down every week

Quote:

Boldangrey
I question the game plan.
We held them in the first half because we kept the ball and rarely kicked. (interesting to see the possession stats.) When we did kick, it was almost always for touch. Old maxim - if Clermont don't have the ball they can't score.

Second half we played a kicking game, missed touch far too often, kicked too deep for the chasers or, or worse still, kicked to Abendanon to run back at us.

Had we kept the first half's game plan we could have edged it.

Quote:

Beergoggles
I’m surprised at the sprinkling of positivism on this thread. What I saw was a team devoid of ideas and with no clue how to deliver quick ball play a static game with very little penetration. The admittedly enjoyable distractions came from one a handful of one off plays from high class internationals that tried for the blink of an eye to play their game despite the incoherent game plan.
As an example Priestland try came from (i) turning down a kickable penalty (ii) half a dozen phases shuffling side to side but going no where (iii) the realisation that that RP was about to be charged down attempting a drop goal from the same field position as the original penalty and (iv) a straight break to the corner for the try. Now that may be a planned moment of rugby genius or a one off decision to rescue 2 minutes of completely brain dead rugby. You decide ?

Interesting question and I have often thought that the only times when Rhys shows some invention and skill in getting through or putting others into a gap comes accidentally [or instinctively??] when under pressure and has little or no time to think or go through with the planned move

I am not convinced by the big ball carrying inside centre argument, our team has had a few of those in C21 including Shontayne Hape, Sam Burgess, before Jamie Roberts today. The best rugby we have played in the last decade was with our smallest but most creative back line with Peter Stringer at SH, GF10/KE12/JJ13 and Biggsy/Watson on the wings.

We need a play maker at 12, in NZ parlance a 2nd 5/8th and that is not JC. Certainly play him there for the occasional planned move to carry into the heart of their defence or act as a decoy runner for JJ and maybe a burst into the line from #15. I wonder if we could tempt O Devoto back? I had high hopes for him when he burst into our team. I would also approach Kyle Eastmond.

I can't watch much more of our biff/bash/bosh and was reflecting on this as I watched Saints and Leinster put on a great display of attacking rugby. When will the BB&W be marching anywhere towards a trophy in our current state?

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

So here we are again.

Rush defence generally offside.........but probably not as bad as Saracens!!

Freddie comes on all invention and energy well after RP it would not be difficult..........shapes to chip and exploits the large green area between rapidly advancing backs line and Bendy who is quite deep.

Right idea, right timing and then kicks it too long..........aaaaaaaggggghhhhhhh. All it needs is a little dink to get it over the heads of the advancing players..........why is such a simple kick so difficult???

I used to play with Alastair Hignell's younger brother Stephen and he would shape to chip they would turn and he would just "nudge" it into his own hands, ie a distance of about 2 foot in the air, generally we made very, very good ground as we would get in behind them with them standing still!!

Yet another sh1tty end of the stick for Burns. 'Please can you come on and rescue the game in the last 15 minutes. Oh, and if you try too hard to make anything happen, we will continue to pigeon-hole you as too mercurial to start at 10'.

Meanwhile Priestland ticks all his usual boxes including the charge-down which was the turnover of possession which ultimately led to their first try.

Cook, on the other hand, had a really good game. Why referees persist in stopping teams from taking quick penalties is an enduring frustration and something that really needs to be addressed if anyone seriously wants to make rugby more attractive to watch. Had Cook been allowed to score that try it would have been a different game.

Like you I want Freddie to start.....

Someone...........Hooper (?) sets the team up to not lose by much and occasionally we manage a tedious win.

Lets set up a team to WIN!!!!

Still I might have to go and give FB some lessons in chipping (this is a joke by the way)

Quote:

Clarkey3k
I am not convinced by the big ball carrying inside centre argument, our team has had a few of those in C21 including Shontayne Hape, Sam Burgess, before Jamie Roberts today. The best rugby we have played in the last decade was with our smallest but most creative back line with Peter Stringer at SH, GF10/KE12/JJ13 and Biggsy/Watson on the wings.
We need a play maker at 12

This x1,000

I don't think we need a 2nd playmaker at 12. I *do* think we need one somewhere else in the backline. That can be 12, 13 or 15. Unfortunately we don't really have anyone else to naturally play in those positions other than square pegging Freddie in at 15.

I agree with some of that Hasta, I think another play maker outside or current 10s would bring the best out of them. I favour one at 12, but a play making 15 coming in at second receiver or offering another option at 1st receiver has worked for other teams. I don't think a play maker at 13 brings what Bath currently need.

So Fred at 10 and Rhys at 12 it is then...

Brad B, Sam Hill, even Clermont Last weekend and indeed RWC winners SA don’t use a playmaking centre - they have direct and solid 12s who take a couple of defenders but keep the ball alive through an offload. I would be just as happy with any fast and clever 12 with a rapid pass tbh. I thought that Willison was that player unfortunately...and Tapuai (who arguably was a playmaking 12).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:12:09:17:37:49 by BathMatt53.

Ironically, Kyle Eastmond really wasn't a playmaker at 12. It's just the diamond gave George so many options it looked like they were all geniuses!

I think the playmaker 15 is the way to go for us with our current personnel. Fred looks good there, I think but we're not yet making the best of him. I'd like to see him hitting the line between 12 and 13. You know, just like Tom Homer does. Tom must wonder what he has to do to get a game.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

JJ really needs to reinvent himself because he is in danger of becoming seriously mediocre. The ball stopped with him every time on Friday and it was really very irritating. I’d rather see him at 12 in attack encouraged to get the ball wide. Roberts is a busted flush and our backs just have to be set up differently if we’re going to challenge even average defences. I like a playmaker at 12, but 2 x fly-halfs doesn’t work for me.

Quote:

joethefanatic
Ironically, Kyle Eastmond really wasn't a playmaker at 12. It's just the diamond gave George so many options it looked like they were all geniuses!
I think the playmaker 15 is the way to go for us with our current personnel. Fred looks good there, I think but we're not yet making the best of him. I'd like to see him hitting the line between 12 and 13. You know, just like Tom Homer does. Tom must wonder what he has to do to get a game.

If you play Fred at 15 where do you play Homer then?

Tom is not a playmaker at 15 in the same way Fred is. So Rhys at 10? Fred at 15. Fred at 10? Tom at 15.

But that leaves us the question of who the second playmaker is with Fred at 10. Not the good Dr. Not JJ. Not Willison. Not Clarke. So, on the principle of getting your best players on the pitch and on the ball as much as you can, my best guess would be Zach at 12. He's quick enough, he passes and offloads well and his defence of his channel would be awesome. Or Ruaridh. He's a sevens specialist so he sees space and he's got pace to burn. Plus he's utterly wasted on the wing at the moment.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

Bath Hammer

Quote:

joethefanatic
Ironically, Kyle Eastmond really wasn't a playmaker at 12. It's just the diamond gave George so many options it looked like they were all geniuses!
I think the playmaker 15 is the way to go for us with our current personnel. Fred looks good there, I think but we're not yet making the best of him. I'd like to see him hitting the line between 12 and 13. You know, just like Tom Homer does. Tom must wonder what he has to do to get a game.

If you play Fred at 15 where do you play Homer then?

You know, looking at Homer's speed an direct approach coupled with his ability to make a break I've always wondered if Homer could play at inside centre!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Homer at outside centre is not the worst call. Can’t see him as a 12. Cook, Burns, JJ, Homer, Ruaridh, Ant, Roko. Keep it simple, play at pace.

The message seems to be “think outside the box” , be creative. The same applies to West Ham. Aren’t I lucky supporting them both. AllI need now is a Corbyn led Government!

Quote:

Bath Hammer
The message seems to be “think outside the box” , be creative. The same applies to West Ham. Aren’t I lucky supporting them both. AllI need now is a Corbyn led Government!

As a Arsenal/Bath fan the only bit of good news I've had recently was last night....

JJ's outside half-break but not pass schtick is getting on my nerves. The surface is really not doing him any favours, but we might as well not be playing any wings in attack.