GAME OF CHEQUERS; BATH v HARLEQUINS

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:02:26:10:47:06 by P G Tips.

Apologies to those who posted on this thread yesterday and whose posts have disappeared. In attempting to edit away the duplicate from yesterday I lost both posts!

I have restored the story-please fell free to comment again!

PG

Bath odds on for a home win - Oddschecker website - I think we can do this but feel it will be close given the weather and our pitch...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Bath odds on for a home win - Oddschecker website - I think we can do this but feel it will be close given the weather and our pitch...

Skybet basically has it equal at this stage, Bath with a 2pt start.

Quins have been brilliant at times this season, such as hammering Saracens 41-14 at The Stoop and equally awful (15-29 against LI last weekend, 48-10 loss to Sale). Harlequins are like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.

I'm going to say that Bath squeak it, but only because I'm ever hopeful.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:02:20:13:13:48 by BathMatt53.

Quins will be hurting after that loss which will give them extra motivation. I’m not too convinced by this lack of players thing & they will now have had more time to adjust. We will need to play well for most of the match to win but it should be achievable,

15. Tom Homer

14. Semesa Rokoduguni

13. Jackson Willison

12. Josh Matavesi

11. Ruaridh McConnochie

10. Rhys Priestland

9. Chris Cook

1. Lewis Boyce

2. Jack Walker

3. Christian Judge

4. Josh McNally

5. Elliott Stooke

6. Tom Ellis

7. Francois Louw (c)

8. Zach Mercer

Replacements

16. Tom Doughty, 17. Lucas Noguera, 18. Sam Nixon, 19. Mike Williams, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Freddie Burns, 23. Max Wright

Team Up:


BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE HARLEQUINS:

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Jackson Willison
12. Josh Matavesi
11. Ruaridh McConnochie
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Chris Cook
1. Lewis Boyce
2. Jack Walker
3. Christian Judge
4. Josh McNally
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Tom Ellis
7. Francois Louw (c)
8. Zach Mercer

Replacements
16. Tom Doughty, 17. Lucas Noguera, 18. Sam Nixon, 19. Mike Williams, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Freddie Burns, 23. Max Wright

PG

Tom Doughty and Lucas Noguera get a chance to show that they are comfortable at this level.

Harlequins Starting XV:
1 Santiago Garcia Botta (14)
2 Scott Baldwin (8)
3 Simon Kerrod (17)
4 Glen Young (11)
5 Tevita Cavubati (14)
6 James Chisholm (86) (VC)
7 Chris Robshaw (289) (C)
8 Alex Dombrandt (41)
9 Danny Care (273) (VC)
10 Marcus Smith (76)
11 Gabriel Ibitoye (37)
12 Paul Lasike (19)
13 Tom Penny (3)
14 Cadan Murley (30)
15 Aaron Morris (42)

Game Changers:
16 Jack Musk (11)
17 Mark Lambert (248)
18 Phil Swainston (26)
19 Dino Lamb (25)
20 Will Evans (11)
21 Semi Kunatani (22)
22 Niall Saunders (14)
23 Brett Herron (9)

Not available due to injury:
Forwards
George Head
Elia Elia
Max Crumpton
Joe Gray
Rob Buchanan
Will Collier
Matt Symons
Stephan Lewies
Jack Clifford
Tom Lawday

Backs
Martin Landajo
James Lang
Luke Northmore
Ben Tapuai
Francis Saili
Michele Campagnaro
Nathan Earle
Travis Ismaiel
Vereniki Goneva
Mike Brown

Not Available
Joe Marchant

Guinness Six Nations
Joe Marler
Kyle Sinckler

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

A big game for back up front row resources who are supported by a strong back five and a tasty back line. I hope they keep their feet when we scrum and put a good line out together for our backs to play. Looking forward to it. COYB!!

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Depends which Quins team turns up. If we play our usual 'keep it tight and grind it out for a close win' and the likes of Cavubati, Care, Smith, Ibutoye and Kunatani say "stuff that, lets go quick and wide" it could be a tough watch

Looking at those two sides I think Care should be on the bench and Dombrandt starting for England tomorrow, and as another post suggested elsewhere, given recent form Stooke should be there instead of Ewels...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Irritated that Dunn and Beno are being removed from this game to hold tackle bags.

Quote:

hasta
Irritated that Dunn and Beno are being removed from this game to hold tackle bags.

Hatley needs to have a word with EJ about this. I wonder how the club/players are recompensed, if at all, in this situation. Do the players get an "appearance" fee or just a few days in a swanky hotel? Does the club get something from the RFU to help boost our cap?

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Ouch, didn't realise how bad Quins were for injuries. Like us last season! Us to edge it, provided we shackle their danger players.

Still a decent front row considering the 6 players we have but aren't playing/can't play.

Concerned about Boyce starting. Any Quins afficionados know how good their front rows are?

PECK

Quote:

Clarkey3k

Quote:

hasta
Irritated that Dunn and Beno are being removed from this game to hold tackle bags.

Hatley needs to have a word with EJ about this. I wonder how the club/players are recompensed, if at all, in this situation. Do the players get an "appearance" fee or just a few days in a swanky hotel? Does the club get something from the RFU to help boost our cap?

My understanding is the club get compensated whenever a player misses a game on England duty, whether they are on the pitch or in the stand. This goes for training camps too.

But to have our entire front row missing when one may get 20 minutes max and the others nothing is ridiculous. Cap credits/compensation won't count for much if our scrum goes backwards on Saturday and Smith kicks us to defeat.

Is Eddie still p*ssed off with Bruce?

I wonder if EJ is peed off with Hats....

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Yet Thorley is playing for Glaws this weekend. I can understand the need for travelling backups in the pack, but still, what happens if May pulls up crock in warm up? Do we have any extra centres or locks who can step in short notice?

If the "we" you mean Rawce is England -yes:5 locks (3 start, 2 on bench) + 4 centres (3 start, 1 on bench).

Or do you mean Bath? Our need is props & hookers this weekend.

PG

Quote:

Clarkey3k
I wonder if EJ is peed off with Hats....

I suspect it's Bruce he hopes to impact.

PG

I meant England, and was taking the piddle with my suggestions for replacements for May.

Quote:

Rawce
Yet Thorley is playing for Glaws this weekend. I can understand the need for travelling backups in the pack, but still, what happens if May pulls up crock in warm up? Do we have any extra centres or locks who can step in short notice?

He doesn't even have anyone on the bench who can step in for May, let alone a travelling sub! 5 x specialist locks and 1 x specialist wing/full-back in the entire 23.

This thread appears to have mated with the England thread.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

P G Tips

Quote:

Clarkey3k
I wonder if EJ is peed off with Hats....

I suspect it's Bruce he hopes to impact.

PG

If this is remotely true (which I hope it isn't) then the clubs need to look at taking back control of their players.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

P G Tips

Quote:

Clarkey3k
I wonder if EJ is peed off with Hats....

I suspect it's Bruce he hopes to impact.

PG

If this is remotely true (which I hope it isn't) then the clubs need to look at taking back control of their players.

How?

a) they have a long term agreement, which they are in the middle of:

[www.bbc.co.uk]

b) you can hardly say to a player, look we aren't going to let you go to the England camp - not likely to get a game are you?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Sure, just give back all the money they get from the RFU.

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

P G Tips

Quote:

Clarkey3k
I wonder if EJ is peed off with Hats....

I suspect it's Bruce he hopes to impact.

PG

If this is remotely true (which I hope it isn't) then the clubs need to look at taking back control of their players.

How?

a) they have a long term agreement, which they are in the middle of:

[www.bbc.co.uk]

b) you can hardly say to a player, look we aren't going to let you go to the England camp - not likely to get a game are you?

Clearly nothing can be done in the short term, but at some point it will be renegotiated. Personally I'd like to see the EPS size reduced to stop fringe players being picked to sit in the stand and miss club games. Doubt it will happen though, but as someone who prioritises Bath winning over England winning it's what I'd like to see.

Bath vs Harlequins
Referee: Tom Foley
Assistant referees: Greg Macdonald, Paul Dix
Television match official: David Rose
Timekeeper: Laurie Bryant
Assessor: Nigel Yates



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:02:21:17:45:11 by CoochieCoo.

I’m not sure why I’m bothering to reply/educate but extra players are a necessity in case of last minute injuries. Reducing the size of training squads won’t change anything.

Quote:

ballsout
I’m not sure why I’m bothering to reply/educate but extra players are a necessity in case of last minute injuries. Reducing the size of training squads won’t change anything.

Agree, England involvement is a great rugby education, different coaching ideas, top class players intermingling and sharing experiences. A taste of a faster, harder game and thats just internal. Playing in front of huge crowds in different countries and languages, its exactly what rugby is all about.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

ballsout
I’m not sure why I’m bothering to reply/educate but extra players are a necessity in case of last minute injuries. Reducing the size of training squads won’t change anything.

If I need your opinion I’ll tell you what it is, in the meantime just STFU.

Ooooh that’s me told.

Another pointer for you... there’s 3 extra Bath players each game in case of last minute injuries too. Usually a hooker, a prop and a back.

BO is spot on the problem here is us playing before England, so unused backup players can't be released. Just our/their misfortune that two of them are ours. You never know, a tweaked groin or a dead leg in the warm up and it's a cap.

It does seem odd that there is no cover in the retained England squad for a back 3 player.
We're just unfortunate that the likes or Dunn & Obano are 3rd in the pecking order in specialist positions.

Bath having so many players in the international reckoning can only be a good thing, for those players and future recruitment. We may not win silverware but we certainly get players noticed.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

Dorset Boy
It does seem odd that there is no cover in the retained England squad for a back 3 player.
We're just unfortunate that the likes or Dunn & Obano are 3rd in the pecking order in specialist positions.

There’s no cover in the XXIII DB, let alone the travelling squad. In fact there’s only 1 specialist back 3 player in the starting XV. Eddie is wallking a knife-edge.

Quote:

Optimist

Quote:

Dorset Boy
It does seem odd that there is no cover in the retained England squad for a back 3 player.
We're just unfortunate that the likes or Dunn & Obano are 3rd in the pecking order in specialist positions.

There’s no cover in the XXIII DB, let alone the travelling squad. In fact there’s only 1 specialist back 3 player in the starting XV. Eddie is wallking a knife-edge.

I know that, though Slade has played 15 fairly often I think, but agree. Let's say Stockdale smashes May at the first kick and May fails his HIA, and then Manu pulls up lame again.......

The fact is that more than once we played Quins with very unbalanced front rows in their favour & we have really come a cropper. I hope we don’t end up giving away endless penalties.

RP suffering from wind problems, again!

HT

8 v 5

RP missed conversion and penalty

R McC 2nd try, but FB hits post with conversion

FT

19 v 12

Bath win 3rd game in a row!!

Two tries for Rudiah has to be good news.
Good to get another win, especially having lost the last few against Quins this season.

Up to 4th, 1 point behind Saints, 2 behind Sale
P11, W7, L4

I am a happy bunny tonight for all sorts of reasons, our front row did well, weren't bossed at the scrum; the line out was sublime for most of the game and McInally made a real nuisance of himself on their throw; Zach played Dombrandt off the park despite his chargedown on RP for his try. Matavesi made one howler but was otherwise creative with his hands and managed a couple of useful kicks from hand; R McC got into the game after the first quarter and made a real difference, his t/over led to his 2nd try, watch it on C5 Monday, great work. Cook had a good 60mins and a one-handed pick up off the floor in open to keep a move flowing drew admiring gasps from the faithful. The ref was over fussy at the scrum, it seemed to take ages to get the ball back in play but when the game flowed it was enjoyable to watch. Both sides tried to play in tricky conditions and fair play to all involved. Upwards and onwards it seems...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

All backs tries for the first time in a while! Great stuff to come back having the 10mins with a man up yet being 7 points down. We shackled Dombrandt and Laisike very well.

Best I can say is we won and am very thankful.

But still feel underwhelmed. We should have put at least 4 tries on that weakened Quins side and with all the territory and possession we had, particularly in the first half. Still we did come from behind and just about deserved the result.

I cannot understand why we try to drive our lineouts close to the line. Quins easily repelled at least 3 attempts and we should have gone for a more certain 3 penalty points, particularly in a tight game. Our maul was ineffective and badly constructed all game and needs some urgent work before the Exeter game.

McConichie was brilliant and was always looking for work. As well as the two tries, his turnover when the last man in defence when Quins nearly scored, was as important as the tries.

Pack was Ok and the reserve front row did ok. Boyce was seen to good effect around the field as was Tom Ellis. But my MoTM by a street was Stooker. He was everywhere and worked so hard, plus his tackling, jackling and today his handling in open play with at least two off loads were sublime. How Ewels gets in the England or Bath side over him is a mystery to me.

McNally is becoming a very good forward and was a real nuisance on their lineouts. Mercer was good and put in a great shift but tries to do too much on his own sometimes. He certainly was as good as Dombrandt.

The site of Bath backs running and handling was a revelation but not entirely accurate as it was obviously new to them but hopefully will get better. I like the look of Matevesi and he combines well with Willison. Homer was solid and did a few good runs. Must say, Roko has lost his mojo at the moment and has lost his speed and confidence. Hopefully, it will return.

We scraped home and will need to be at least 50% better next week or Bristol will run us ragged and do the double over us, something I don't often recall in my watching Bath rugby over the years.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

A definite all round improvement from all concerned.

BoB

You are the Craig Revel Horwood of COML and I claim my £10 and first dance with Oti Mabusi!

Yes- quite a lot to work on, but hey - enjoy the win!

PG

Hats off to the entire front row. 3rd choice props played the whole game, besting a Welsh international and much more experienced Premiership old stager.

Jack Walker, second choice hooker was very prominent in first half with excellent line out throwing, contribution to the first try and effective tackles/jackals.

What looked like a weakness before the game was turned into a strength.

PG

BoB you clearly don't bother to watch the game happening in front of you. Just cut and paste criticism and throw a bone to a few players if we win. Why go to the corner? Well maybe because the wind made kicking for goal difficult. I will in turn do my broken record - it is not 1990 the game has evolved (not saying improved) get over it.

Really good retention, 66% possession and 70% territory should have yielded more but happy to take the 4 points. Really like the centre partnership more breaks (and sniffs) than I have seen in a long time. Well done Jack walker and the lineout jumpers, so solid this season. Very pleased and optimistic for the rest of the season.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BoB
I cannot understand why we try to drive our lineouts close to the line. Quins easily repelled at least 3 attempts and we should have gone for a more certain 3 penalty points, particularly in a tight game.

Wind! We had 7 kicks at goal, penalty and conversions and slotted 3 so 43% success. They only had two shots at goal and got 1. Our mauling was good as we won 6 out of 6 regretfully the finishing after the maul was defective!

Stats (copies from Quins board)

Quins missed 21 tackles
Bath missed 9

Quins 10 penalties conceded
Bath 7

Quins 2 clean breaks
Bath 14

Quins Defenders beaten 7
Bath 32

A bit more clinical and Bath should be winning comfortably.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I'm glad we won and are building some momentum. 3 wins on the trot is good. BUT, Quins could have had more out of it today but for a great turnover by RMac and a few other errors they made at crucial times.

Pack was good again and the set piece is working really well. Centres look far more dynamic and we look far more threatening and able to make a break, but we still get ourselves in good positions and then go sideways or backwards for 3, 4 or 5 phases and cough it up.

I still have no confidence in Cook at 9. His passing wasn't all that good and far too many passes were too low or too high or generally not where they should be. His box kicking isn't that good either (to be fair as a whole we aint that good with box kicking).

Bristol next week should be a good game. I think we can take it too them. We will need to be better than today though.

Isn't it great that we are in 4th with the number of wins we have and we can still see a lot of improvement in the team to come - that bodes really well for the rest of the season and next season.

I am wondering whether Roko is suffering a temporary lack of form or whether he is rather a spent force nowadays. He is still a solid & dependable player but looks heavy legged & doesn’t resemble the try scoring threat of a couple of years ago, Hopefully that is not he case & he will regain his form like a Bannerman did.

Quote:

Bath Hammer
I am wondering whether Roko is suffering a temporary lack of form or whether he is rather a spent force nowadays. He is still a solid & dependable player but looks heavy legged & doesn’t resemble the try scoring threat of a couple of years ago, Hopefully that is not he case & he will regain his form like a Bannerman did.

I'd beg to differ. We are not using Roko at the moment but every time he gets the ball he makes yards, he competes superbly well in the air and his defense is solid. He also makes things happen from a standstill which, given some of our passing, is just as well.

I liked Matavesi today - some nice touches. But we really should have won much more comfortably and got the bonus point. It's a nice problem to have but not everyone will be as accommodating as Quins.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:02:23:00:27:08 by joethefanatic.

Grateful for a win in damned difficult conditions, but felt that given our possession and territory we made hellish hard work of it.

For me Mercer and RMcC stood out along with Flo at his industrious best. Agree a call out for our props who did us proud.

I thought we had turned a corner in the first 20 mins when our attacking play was the best I had seen in years!! Unfortunately the Dombrandt try killed off that confidence & fluency & we returned to type. It did show what we are capable of though. Going forward we have to replicate that for 80% of matches rather than 20% if we want o retain our position or improve upon it. Otherwise I fear that after several narrow wins we are due a narrow defeat followed by the usual at Sandy Park but you never know!

We should have won that in a canter (and 5 points) and maybe we would if the disallowed try had stood, but it was another win and in some ways quite comforting that we care learning how to win these tight games. Lots of good performances from Bath players but I also really enjoyed watching Marcus Smith, he has so much enthusiasm, really bossing the show and the skill to carry it off. Will be watching him with interest to see how he develops.

I also feel sorry for Freddie, came on did some good things then went for a pass that did not come off and all round me the chorus of abuse was very distasteful. Give the guy a chance.

We certainly didn’t take the chance of a TBP against what was a poor Quins team, however I suspect that in recent seasons we would have found a way to lose the game. I’ll take the win and hope for better in the future.

A flawed performance but a win and I bounced back through town afterwards. One day we will get to enjoy a match without worrying we are about to throw it all away at the end. Ruaridh's tackle, turnover, try in the space a few minutes saved then won the game for us. He was excellent amid lots of strong individual performance. I thought Walker did very well and both Boyce and Judge deserve a slap on the back for a job well done. Matavesi offers more variety than Dr Roberts. I hope Stooke's knee is OK after he almost did the splits as Smith danced around him.

We are a long way from being a good side but 7 wins out of 11 is not to be sniffed at and we are appear to be progressing - more shape in attack, offloading, not coughing up the ball every other phase...

Quote:

Bathovalballer

I cannot understand why we try to drive our lineouts close to the line. Quins easily repelled at least 3 attempts

Unfortunately BoB the highlights do not show that passage of play so I am unable to confirm what I saw live (very much in line with those mauls) -that Quins collapsed at least 2 of them illegally.

What they do show is that Ibitoye's pass to Smith for Quins try No2 was every bit as forward as Walker's for our disallowed try -in fact more clearly so.

Also how much Quins press defence was offside. Best example - check the ruck just before MConnochie try 2 -7 of them in front of the back foot (4 of them at least a stride ahead of Bath's back foot)!

The scoreline should have been a much clearer margin in our favour, I agree. With a few more correct calls from the officials it could have been.

PG

One thing Mr Foley did early in the game was to march Quins back 10 yards at a penalty award to us, I assume for a wayward comment. Personally, I would like to see more of this sanction as it helps stamp out the decent that is creeping into the game. Certainly Mr Carley should have done it in the international yesterday, to shut up the Welsh whingers, especially Mr Biggar who was completely over the top.

I have never been a fan of Tom F and he did let a lot of offside go, on both sides. However, after seeing Mr Tempest laissey faire on Friday night, I wonder if some refs cannot be bothered to police offside lines as he was dreadful.

Still we won, just, for which I am very thankful.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Agree with a lot of what has been said. First 20 we were dominant. Quins didn't really bring much to the party - they were there for the taking. For me it is still an issue at half back that we show mental frailty at crucial moments eg. The matavesi call-back... I could have put my house on us then making a shaky error and going to 8-7 rather than being 16-0 up (cue Rhys charge-down!). We didn't take control again until the last 15 and even then offered them glimmers of opportunity to snatch a runaway draw. Happy with the 4pts, should've been 5. Watching bath ages me!

There was nothing wrong with the pass to Smith for his try. From tv highlights I saw the angle of ibotoye's hands are good.

But the standout feature for me was RM's finishing. We sure have missed that this season

RMcC master of the high ball from his 7s days too. If Homer goes I wonder if RMcC would be a serious 15 option having played that position earlier in his career.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

We won, but my real concern is that yet again we failed to put a team away with such total domination, whilst I am certainly no fan of Mr Foley's officiating we cannot just blame the officials.

Positives are many, however that is twice Rhys has been charged down under little pressure and it has cost us a try on both occasions, but what worries me more is the inability once we are in behind a team to actually score and it will soon come back to bite us, it nearly did yesterday. Reminiscent to Scotland.

Secretly I bet Paul Gustard is smiling that his team has come away with a bonus point having been dominated like that and unbelievable they nearly won it, there was a time after Smith's try where I just thought how? God almighty!!!

One major positive is our belief we are now winning games which only a few months ago we would have lost and yesterday was a prime example we didn't let our heads go down and won. Massive positives but so so much to work on.

Not quite scoring is a huge improvement to earlier in the season when we didn’t look like we could buy a backs try. Particularly notable yesterday how many flat (occasionally forward) passes there were and the first try and the disallowed one both benefitted from this over the very deep passing from the autumn. Quins were sending it back nearly 20m in some phases of their attack. The first RMcC try was a very well worked training ground move, with him taking the front position at the lineout and wrapping around - lovely stuff.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

From the stand it looked like Quins second try was a clear forward pass.

With the attacks so flat nowadays there seem to be more and more questionable forward passes, Time for a chip in the ball?
Must be accurate as in football its down to centimetres on goal line technology.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Agree with pretty much everything posted! My mate said after the Bath try was disallowed that it would be a turning point as we'd been very good to that point and sure enough we lost our fluency, even more so after the charge down try. Equally typically there was a reaction when we were losing. Sadly we're not a team that maintains control so we're condemned to tight, nail-biting matches but we're getting better at winning them. Gustard cited our control at half back as decisive. He obviously knows his rugby but I thought Care was good and Smith-two missed touch-finders excepted, was superb. For us, no standouts (perhaps RMcC) but lots of good performances and Freddie did well when he came on.

Just seen the highlight video and captured a still of Ibotoye’s pass and Smith receiving. Looks forward to me!

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Ball travels forward in relation to the ground, but his hands are facing backwards when he passes it - not a forward pass.

Quote:

FourSticks
Ball travels forward in relation to the ground, but his hands are facing backwards when he passes it - not a forward pass.

Hands position is what refs use yes.
However, there are two definitions of forward in World Rugby Laws of the Game:

"Forward: Towards the opposition’s dead-ball line.

Throw forward: When a player throws or passes the ball forward i.e. if the arms of the player passing the ball move forward."

Smith's feet are ahead of Ibitoye's arms when the pass is made -i.e. closer to opponent's dead ball line. Therefore it is a forward pass. In those circumstances the "clarification" of where the arms are facing is a distraction. The receiver is in front of the passer at the time of the pass.

PG

Quote:

BathMatt53
RMcC master of the high ball from his 7s days too. If Homer goes I wonder if RMcC would be a serious 15 option having played that position earlier in his career.

Think he played there a few times at 15 last season and looked quality. Got the skill set. Him, tdg and watson would have it pretty well covered (maybe atkins and worboys also)

2 points off 2nd place in the Prem tonight, the Bristol match now a real test of our 2019/20 squad, coaches and systems, I hope they can find a winning formula. Will we get some of our England/Wales boys back for this one?

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

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Jack Walkers arms were not pointing forward when he passed to Josh Matavesi so what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!

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Quote:

CoochieCoo
Jack Walkers arms were not pointing forward when he passed to Josh Matavesi so what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!
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+1

I thought they were either both forward or both ok, just couldn’t see ours being ruled as forward and not theirs.

Posters above have it covered really, felt like we should have been clear somehow.
Two observations though, Cookie does a lot of very high quality things and has great rugby skills, it is only the occasional lower quality of his pass that stops him being of top class.
Marcus Smith kept them in it for me, nearly everything he does has a positive effect for his team, probably just not quite physical enough to be international .

PECK

Quote:

Clarkey3k
2 points off 2nd place in the Prem tonight, the Bristol match now a real test of our 2019/20 squad, coaches and systems, I hope they can find a winning formula. Will we get some of our England/Wales boys back for this one?

The trouble is we find it hard to score tries so all our games are tight. You can’t keep winning when margins are so small. I thought we had turned things round after 20 mins on Saturday but then it stopped. Bristol are the opposite. I think we have to step up on that performance to win.

Didn’t Bristol just sneak past Worcs 13-10 having beaten Saints by 6 the week before? They are as hot / cold as the rest of the teams in this cluster. Agree Bath will have to play better next game though.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

The next two games, Bristol at home, Exeter away will really show how far we have come.

Bristol easily brushed us aside first game up in what was classed' a very important to the players' local derby with their speed of foot and backing up. We were extremely poor in what should at least be a competitive game. This coming Sundays game is a must win for us, giving us a little confidence for next week where Bristol won earlier in the season.

Exeter away demands huge physicality first and foremost, taking opportunities but going wide quickly to beat their defence where they have been beaten before. The Exeter defence is awesome and rarely do they commit more than 2/3 to the tackle area. Also the ability to keep running for 80 minutes is a must as they are very good in the last quarter. Having watched them demolish a good Northampton side yesterday after a very competitive 20 minutes, was informative and quite surprising. The Exe attack is relentless if you let them get momentum. That is what we have to stop.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Exeter away is a bit of a write-off - let's budget for 0 points from that game and not have too many post-match recriminations when that inevitability comes to pass.

Bristol game is going to be played on a very heavy pitch by the look of the forecasts, which means we may not learn quite as much as we want, but are more likely to get the result we want.

The Bris game against Saints was fairly typical Bris where they can look a bit chaotic, but then they do just keeping coming and eventually something clicks and they will kill you for 15 minutes. Will be interesting to see if we can batter them into submission for the full 80. Presumably we'll have Faletau, Obano and Dunn to add into the mix, so you would have to fancy we can win this one.

It was interesting that neither Nixon or Lucas Noguera Paz got even a minute at the weekend. That's pretty unusual for Bath I would have thought and excellent that Boyce and Judge could keep it up for the full 80.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Is props going 70-80 minutes a thing that's happening a bit more this season, or am I imagining that?

If there are fewer scrums per game (again, i don't know if that's a fact), as commentators seem to say - maybe there's less reason for props not to do the full 80?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:02:24:11:36:59 by Optimist.

It's particularly good that Boyce made the full 80, because he got done over against Quins earlier this season and certainly suffers in comparison with Stuart/Judge in terms of the new props and Obano in terms of looseheads.

Let's hope Boycie keeps up that improvement. He certainly showed around the field with a couple of good carries.

Not playing Paz meant we were able to maintain our standards in the scrum or is it because he and Nixon are off, the coaches are reluctant to play them. That is apparent at other clubs where players are off.

Any more news on Paul Hill? He did well, especially in the tight in the first half for Saints against Exeter yesterday.

Any news on the state of Thomas or Catt as well?

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

I did hear a rumour that Bath were after Sarries de Kock Which made me think that Hill wasn’t coming, but could just be that we are linked with basically everyone.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

Bathovalballer
Let's hope Boycie keeps up that improvement. He certainly showed around the field with a couple of good carries.
Not playing Paz meant we were able to maintain our standards in the scrum or is it because he and Nixon are off, the coaches are reluctant to play them. That is apparent at other clubs where players are off.

Any more news on Paul Hill? He did well, especially in the tight in the first half for Saints against Exeter yesterday.

Any news on the state of Thomas or Catt as well?

Catty said he will prob be out for another year! Sounds nasty and complex.

Henry hoping to be back before end of season

Quote:

BathMatt53
I did hear a rumour that Bath were after Sarries de Kock Which made me think that Hill wasn’t coming, but could just be that we are linked with basically everyone.

De kock is excellent. Would only be for him if thomas as well as nixon is off i imagine? Otherwise throwing crazy money at one position?

Sorry not de kock (the very old Sarries scrum half) Vincent Koch.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Thank you Charlie Boa. Very sorry to hear that about Catty. He is a very nice person and always ready to chat. I haven't seen him for sometime now at the Rec and wondered if something was amiss. I and countless others wish him well for the future.

If Judge continues to improve, like last Saturday, not so sure we will need Henry T., unless Stuart is going to be away with England much more. It is a lot of salary cap tied up in one position. He has had a run of bad injuries and you have to wonder if his body is up to playing in a position that demands such strength and wear and tare on all parts of the body. I want him to be healthy and yes on the pitch along with Catty. But I would consider him now to be behind Stuart and Judge in selection terms and no doubt he is one of the top earners which that position often carries. Certainly, if we bring in Paul Hill, he will definitely be no more than 3rd choice.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Prop is one position where you definitely need strength in depth in view of the injury risk in that position especially from over playing.