An attack of Quinsy : Harlequins v Bath Match Preview

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:06:18:04:11 by CoochieCoo.

Nothing like getting the preview of the next match up fast, to confine the last match to the past! Good thinking.

Officials

Ref: Tom Foley
Asst Refs: Matthew Carley & Simon McConnell
TMO: Sean Davey
Citing Officer: Allister Hogg

BATH RUGBY SIDE TO FACE HARLEQUINS

15. Anthony Watson, 14. Semesa Rokoduguni, 13. Jonathan Joseph, 12. Cameron Redpath, 11. Ruaridh McConnochie, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Beno Obano, 2. Tom Dunn, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Elliott Stooke, 5. Charlie Ewels, 6. Josh Bayliss, 7. Miles Reid 8. Taulupe Faletau

REPLACEMENTS

16. Jack Walker, 17. Lewis Boyce, 18. Christian Judge, 19. Josh McNally, 20. Tom Ellis, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Josh Matavesi, 23. Tom de Glanville

Before the loss to Wasps I imagined that we would have rested half the front five players for this match and then the other half for Worcester, looks like this is now a must win match and we’ll see who is available for Worcester, with most being rested for Sale away..... but we’ll see.

I'm impressed with the ambition. We are genuinely giving top 4 a lash.

Zach is having a mixed season - which, after the report that he was set to leave, and only signed after a group of players went and persuaded him - feels significant. Really hope that he comes good. And I hope Taulupe repays with a big performance. He's had a build-up now. Time for a signature performance from him. Nice balance in that back row - though i'm surprised that Ellis isn't getting more of a look in.

Here's Quins:
1. Joe Marler (205)
2. Scott Baldwin (15)
3. Simon Kerrod (24)
4. Matt Symons (45)
5. Glen Young (15)
6. Chris Robshaw (296) - Captain
7. Will Evans (17)
8. Alex Dombrandt (48)
9. Danny Care (279)
10. Brett Herron (18)
11. Nathan Earle (27)
12. Ben Tapuai (28)
13. Joe Marchant (89)
14. Chris Ashton (4)
15. Mike Brown (331)

Game Changers:
16. Joe Gray (158)
17. Santiago Garcia Botta (19)
18. Will Collier (173)
19. Stephan Lewies (17)
20. Tom Lawday (15)
21. Martin Landajo (17)
22. James Lang (64)
23. Paul Lasike (26)

Strong team. Agree DCSH, makes sense after Quins result. Exciting back row, clearly want the mobility to try and combat being isolated. Can't watch the game unfortunately this weekend, but nonetheless...COYB!

(p.s. I haven't been very impressed with Bath old boy Herron, glad he is starting over Smith...no doubt that comment will come back to bite my on the aris.)

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:04:12:18:37 by BathMatt53.

On Channel 5 iirc. Two strong teams, let’s hope we bring it this week.

Quote:

Optimist
I'm impressed with the ambition. We are genuinely giving top 4 a lash.
Zach is having a mixed season - which, after the report that he was set to leave, and only signed after a group of players went and persuaded him - feels significant. Really hope that he comes good. And I hope Taulupe repays with a big performance. He's had a build-up now. Time for a signature performance from him. Nice balance in that back row - though i'm surprised that Ellis isn't getting more of a look in.

I don’t entirely agree about Zach. He always puts in a shift & continually threatens the gane line. Faletau is another matter, almost anonymous against Wasps. Another insipid performance & he won’t be considered a first choice selection.

At the risk of tempting fate it feels like Dombrandt is not going quite as well as he did a little while ago...................I wonder if that is because every is aware of his danger or something else.

Mercer looked a bit tired in the last game and Faletau really has to deliver.

I would have been tempted to start Matevesi ahead of RP.............but I guess that's just me!!

Let's hope Bret Heron doesn't come back to bite us in the @rse

Quote:

Bath Hammer

Quote:

Optimist
Zach is having a mixed season

I don’t entirely agree about Zach. He always puts in a shift & continually threatens the gane line. Faletau is another matter, almost anonymous against Wasps. Another insipid performance & he won’t be considered a first choice selection.

I kind of meant more to do with what seems like relatively sporadic selection. I’d always rather see Zach in the team, but our back row hasn’t really lived up to its on paper’ potential. It’s always going to be a big call to prefer him to Faletau at 8 - but it’s Taulupe who owes right now.

Interesting selection. Wasps defeat has backed us into a corner i guess where this is pretttly much must win. Not ideal.

some players probably need games to try to get them into some kind of form like faletau but i am not convinced that running the front 5 into the ground is wise. Someone like stuart is a prize asset- 20 stone prop and you play him every game inc 70+ mins on mon (when its non contested and his primary weapon is scrummaging) and start him again sat. Sure they would counter argue that lack of scummaging took way less out of him but just hope the plans doesnt backfire.

I assume schoeman isnt in the country and henry/batty are injured otherwise all seems a bit odd and a lack of trust in the wider squad. Maybe we will see them next game.

Excited by the backrow combo-think reid will push himself into the mix for lots of starts under the new breakdown reffing. Bayliss has improved massively over the last year i think.

Would love to see that midfield fire- i think redpath looks potentially v v good.

Shame no coko stil but hopefully soon and no point rushing it.

If you try to be objective there is not much difference between the two sets of players, so it is not going to be easy, especially at the breakdown, but given the really interested thing will be to see how the backs play once they get the ball. On paper not much between them so it will be a chance to see the relative styles and effectiveness of the two attack coaches. Let's hope Watson gets brought more into the game.

Still no sign of Orlando Bailey in the squad, surely this is the season to get him on the bench and at least give him some game time to see what he's made of?

The title is already Exeter bound with the remaining teams (ignoring Sarries) somewhere between mediocre and poor so why not prepare him for next season?

Quote:

OutsideBath
Still no sign of Orlando Bailey in the squad, surely this is the season to get him on the bench and at least give him some game time to see what he's made of?
The title is already Exeter bound with the remaining teams (ignoring Sarries) somewhere between mediocre and poor so why not prepare him for next season?

I agree, starting him is risky but in a game with RP starting at 10 and Matavesi at 12 a bench place is little risk.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Any predictions?

For me on our current form especially after the Wasps game the head says a 10/15 point loss but the heart says a 2 point win for Bath or even a draw !

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Just feel this will be tight, bit worried about Dombrandt and these three in the backs. Ben Tapuai, Joe Marchant, Mike Brown.

Just hope we don't kick to Brown who is very good form at he moment and facing ex Bath players is always tricky.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I suspect you might want to give the forum a miss this afternoon as it's sure to be a bit grumpy.

Quote:

OutsideBath
I suspect you might want to give the forum a miss this afternoon as it's sure to be a bit grumpy.

Thoughtful OB, but then its on telly and at least we will all see both the good and the bad. I don't mind thought through criticism, it the "Bath are rubbish" and "coaches are rubbish" without seeing the other side.
Lets face it we all know we have issues but are we the same as last year? Not sure about that.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I agree SW even those most critical of the coaching setup such as myself have to agree that there is the slightest improvement in some areas. We now have a lineout and also a scrum that can mostly hold it's own.

I'm still yet to be convinced by Hooper and feel that Dempsey has to be on a final warning, but overall my frustration is the title challenging team we all want is taking far too long. Bristol have now left us behind and I can't help that think the gap to Exeter is wider than ever.

Hope to read that Bath won this afternoon, but won't hold my breath.

Hallelujah - if you look long and hard enough you will see a semi - +ve in OB's comments "...Bristol have now left us behind and I can't help that think the gap to Exeter is wider than ever...".

Depending on your half empty/half full perspective this can be read as a west country resurgence, within which it would/could/can be good to see Bath (and god help me, even Glaws) joining the top ranks very soon - a little late to the party perhaps but better late than never. Watch this space!

ps. I have Bath down for a 5 point win - once a son of The Rec always a son of The Rec.

Looks like Marler is out, we should be able to take advantage of that in the scrum

Quote:

9215
Looks like Marler is out, we should be able to take advantage of that in the scrum

He is starting now

So...

We don’t touch the ball for the first five minutes. Standard.

Finally we get a scrum.

Pinged before the engage. Scrum Quins.

30 seconds later, penalty Quins in open play.

Try Quins.

Great stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:05:14:10:03 by ballsout.

That was a try in the same way I am a nuclear physicist

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Ref not helping, thought ball was held up for Marchant try ?

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Our scrum. Their penalty. Obv.

FFS forwards need to get a grip

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Yeah let’s send a single player into contact with no support...

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Ref penalising us again ?

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Try from absolutely nothing. As is our specialty.

Great finish from RMc, 13-13 now

Two great scores !!

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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

13-20, we’re waking up now

We talk about players and who we need to execute game plans - I think Dempsey is now one of our weak links.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Er I didn’t play front row but it literally looks like Marler is constantly dropping the scrum to me - anyone with more knowledge able to confirm or not?

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Ballsout blown a fuse on his laptop in the last 1/2 hour?

HT 13 v 23

30 mins of Bath dominance and Ballsout's internet coincidentally goes down?

Edit, Great minds or fools Mike?

Adopted player 2019/20 Will Chudley. Weird split household co-parented
player 2020 Josh Matavesi



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:05:14:55:58 by JFPC.

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
Er I didn’t play front row but it literally looks like Marler is constantly dropping the scrum to me - anyone with more knowledge able to confirm or not?

Matt Carley’s Confirmed it at least once!

Quote:

Mike the Taxi
Ballsout blown a fuse on his laptop in the last 1/2 hour?
HT 13 v 23

The thread seems only to be active when we make mistakes. Really sad. Yes Marler should be penalised more often as he is deliberately pulling the scrum down.

Quins offside being missed/ let go several times ?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Hope they keep Marler on!

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Watson off, hamstring possibly, de Glanville on

Great try from Rory !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Quote:

9215
Watson off, hamstring possibly, de Glanville on

And he’s started well to set up RMc’s 2nd, 13-28

Josh Bayliss having a good game .

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

First match for ages, not bad at all!

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Josh Bayliss having a good game .

He is, Miles Reid too I reckon

Keep it up boys. Roaring you on from Logrono in the Rioja country!

PG

RP kicking well, today.

13 v 31

Oh! Ballsout, where are you?

Quote:

P G Tips
Keep it up boys. Roaring you on from Logrono in the Rioja country!
PG

Yum Rioja!

Quote:

woodpecker

Quote:

P G Tips
Keep it up boys. Roaring you on from Logrono in the Rioja country!
PG

Yum Rioja!

Will quaff some tonight Woody- especially if we can get the BP.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Quote:

9215

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Josh Bayliss having a good game .

He is, Miles Reid too I reckon

RP having one of his better games today too...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

He is, de Glanville is looking class too

13-34, 50m kick from RP. Not sure why though, surely we should be chasing the bonus point

I thought there was an experimental crowd there? Awfully quiet!

Quote:

P G Tips

Quote:

woodpecker

Quote:

P G Tips
Keep it up boys. Roaring you on from Logrono in the Rioja country!
PG

Yum Rioja!

Will quaff some tonight Woody- especially if we can get the BP.

Quins a bit ragged

It's good to see some other team than Bath making mistakes with the line going begging!

Well if this game has taught us anything, it’s that our set plays from the base of the scrum need a LOT more work.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Redpath has just been slightly off it today, thin he just needs to not try so hard

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Nice one, Boycie!!

20 v 39

Scorching 80* metre run from Boyce for the BP try

-*will become 80 metres in the retelling

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Great stuff from Boyceeee !

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Converted

20 v 41

40m run in from a prop! 41-20, bonus point in the bag

Christ the ref has made some bad calls

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Yellow card for what ! Didn’t touch the ball !

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Walker yellow-carded for kneeing the ball on the ground

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Yellow card for what ! Didn’t touch the ball !

Arguing with the ref according to Bath's match center

Quins scrummie complaining to ref at every opportunity !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Kudos to our defence coaches this season

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Quote:

Susanne

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Yellow card for what ! Didn’t touch the ball !

Arguing with the ref according to Bath's match center

Yeah, not sure they’re right
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Rhys having a rare good all round game , Man of the Match !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Another yellow for Bath ?

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

CoochieCoo
I thought there was an experimental crowd there? Awfully quiet!

It'll be the same for us if they let us back on the Rec - you've got to keep the volume down to avoid spreading the virus. I'm going to find it very difficult if I'm not allowed to whoop when 15 men in BB&W run onto the pitch!! From the picture of Carrot's try looks like the spectators are in masks too.

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
Kudos to our defence coaches this season

And welcome back Hats - making his presence felt immediately

Down to 12!
Penalty before last was a dreadful call from Foley.

Deja vu all over again!

Bath down to 6 men according to Foley !

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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

...and Quins still mess it up.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Third try for the referee...sorry I mean Quins.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

After a lineout worthy of Christmas pantomime, quins score a try at the death.

FT

27 v 41

Great game !
Didn’t see that result coming !
One of RP’s best games

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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

27-41 FT A strange finish but a generally good team performance I thought, RP MoM.

There’s a reasonable gap between top 5 and the rest now.

Very happy with that. Not perfect by any means by 4 tries and 40+ points away is excellent any day. The pack have really stepped up and I love watching Ruaridh - smart, strong and fast with a real poachers instinct. 5 more points against Worcester please.

Well that sounds a lot better!
20 points from possible 25 over last 5 matches more than most would have predicted.
Not perfect but away TBPs not to be sneezed at.

Well done boys!

PG

Quote:

P G Tips
Well that sounds a lot better!
20 points from possible 25 over last 5 matches more than most would have predicted.
Not perfect but away TBPs not to be sneezed at.

Well done boys!

PG

Yep and also good to see the team are able to put bad performances behind them!

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow�

Rhys had a great game.
Faletau looked to be regaining some form. A graphic during the match said it was only his 10th games for Bath in 23 months.
Bayliss and Reid both did well as did Redpath and TdG.
Loved the interception try by Boyce, quite a turn of pace.

Tom Foley was desperate to show he was a big referee and could make decisions without TV intervention.

It was clear on the TV that Walker was sent off for playing the ball on the ground, as per Foley's explanation. It was also clear that the ball hit Robshaw's knee. If there is doubt why do you not check it on the TV.

There was some indications that we wanted to play a bit more expansively and Redpath is growing into the team. TdG also looked very promising.

It is rare to say that a referee was awful when you get a 5 point win but Foley was rank.

Pleased with the win of course, Rory Mc its a burglar!
Those uncontested scrum laws look daft to me, should go equal numbers in the pack and be allowed to have a full complement of backs. I thought the ref guessed at a lot today and made errors but makes no difference in the end.

The difference between Spencer and Chudley is huge, hope BS isn't injured. TdG looks a proper player as well now with some real pace. Both Stooke and Baylis had a good games. Odd that our best back row probably is not the star studded one you would expect!

I worry at the end of games and don't feel confident in the last quarter of these games at all! Need to improve that area.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

The silence from Ballsout is deafening, long may it continue! Success for Bath and nothing from Ballsout, what could be better?
Dallaglio outdid even himself today, he could barely find a good word for us and continuous criticism for taking penalty shots at goal rather than going from the bonus point win. When of course we got the bonus point, was there any acknowledgement from Dallaglio that he got it wrong? Not a murmur. As silent as a Ballsout!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:05:16:38:46 by bathwickboy.

I dont often post but I just want to check that BO is ok as he has gone quiet which is strange as he was all over the thread with his negativity at the start of the game. Funny that.

Good result and nice to get the BP. Pack is solid. RP kicked well. RMc’s finish for the first try was top drawer.

Really enjoyed that win (you should try it BO!). The first half, I think, was an example of how Hooper sees us playing this year ie v good basics executed precisely, putting pressure on opponents through the scrum and aggressive defence. Rhys showing his strengths with MOM performance, his penalty kick( and general kicking game) success is key to Bath's game plan and winning. Good to see our integration of young players into the side.

Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No.

Quote:

Never In Doubt

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No.

Fair enough.

Great stuff all round, another important win on the road. The youngsters all adding a lot of zip. I’m hoping that Wasps Wednesday was a blip - them negating our scrum and us not capitalising on their throw ins.

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No, I think it reflects Bath's determination to defend their line as hard as they can even when the game is theoretically won, and Carley's ostentatious refing including incorrectly yellow carding Walker.

Well done Rhys, superb game both defensively, with boot and decision making. Thoroughly deserved the Man of Match award.

Quote:

Long Term

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No, I think it reflects Bath's determination to defend their line as hard as they can even when the game is theoretically won, and Carley's ostentatious refing including incorrectly yellow carding Walker.

We do need to develop a tactic for uncontested and loosing a hooker/thrower though, even underarm to the front, their last try was won from our line out and throwing to the middle.
If we had to hold out for another 5 minutes or so it could get a bit scary. Someone should on the pitch should take control, Ewels?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Watching on Channel 5 ....last scrum.... clock stopped for 15 seconds before moving on. That last play leading to Quins try should never have been allowed if the ref (or whoever) had started the clock. Appalling. Watch it on the replay.

Bath seem to be new team without the fans present. Perhaps it was us after all.

Has Priestland been given a bigger role in the defensive set up? Second game in a row he has put in at least one huge hit ... I wasn’t able to watch the game with undivided attention, but maybe being more proactive in that part of the game is suiting him overall?

Very pleased with the BP win - but next 2 games still look very loseable.

Quote:

shipwrecked

Quote:

Long Term

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No, I think it reflects Bath's determination to defend their line as hard as they can even when the game is theoretically won, and Carley's ostentatious refing including incorrectly yellow carding Walker.

We do need to develop a tactic for uncontested and loosing a hooker/thrower though, even underarm to the front, their last try was won from our line out and throwing to the middle.
If we had to hold out for another 5 minutes or so it could get a bit scary. Someone should on the pitch should take control, Ewels?

Fair point.

Quote:

Long Term

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No, I think it reflects Bath's determination to defend their line as hard as they can even when the game is theoretically won, and Carley's ostentatious refing including incorrectly yellow carding Walker.

Agree that Walker unlucky and pen before Dunn yellow carded was harsh as I thought it was great jackalling but poor old Carley getting stick when he's not even reffing- I actually like the bloke!!

Quote:

hemington
Watching on Channel 5 ....last scrum.... clock stopped for 15 seconds before moving on. That last play leading to Quins try should never have been allowed if the ref (or whoever) had started the clock. Appalling. Watch it on the replay.

Sorry was the lineout not scrum at 79.21

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TomReagan

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Long Term

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recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No, I think it reflects Bath's determination to defend their line as hard as they can even when the game is theoretically won, and Carley's ostentatious refing including incorrectly yellow carding Walker.

Agree that Walker unlucky and pen before Dunn yellow carded was harsh as I thought it was great jackalling but poor old Carley getting stick when he's not even reffing- I actually like the bloke!!

Tom, it was Foley reffing..... not Carley! I only watched the last 5 minutes though!
Agree though, he got that decision totally wrong as he said Bath jackaller was off his feet, which if you look again he was on his feet all the time.

Hopefully BO has disappeared up his own planet for good and will cease contaminating this board.

Just caught up with the game - very professional and measured Bath performance and excellent result. Thought every player played their part and also thought that the 6 and 7 looked much better balanced and super dynamic. Hard to believe that Cameron Redpath is still only 20 - if he carries on like this he will be a top player. For me to mention any gripes would be churlish - I hope that they are rightly lapping up the praise for that performance, well done the lads.

OB - you missed out by not watching that one.
BO - “This is a message for possibly the best supporter in the world. We (on the forum) need a 96th man. Where are you? Where are you? Let’s be having you! Come on!”

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

What is this shoulders over feet ruling, McNally was penalised for over reaching in the ruck, whats that all about?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

TomReagan

Quote:

Long Term

Quote:

recman
Doesn't anyone else feel that, after one of the best performances of the season, our attitude in the last ten minutes, to stop playing and deliberately give away penalty after penalty was pretty shameful?

No, I think it reflects Bath's determination to defend their line as hard as they can even when the game is theoretically won, and Carley's ostentatious refing including incorrectly yellow carding Walker.

Agree that Walker unlucky and pen before Dunn yellow carded was harsh as I thought it was great jackalling but poor old Carley getting stick when he's not even reffing- I actually like the bloke!!

My mistake, either my prejudice or that I don't normally notice the ref is showing.

I think it stems from years of Bath being pinged for a myriad of offences, hands in the ruck being our favourite. Basically, my mates can't think of a ref that we feel favours us (or gives us the rub of the green!) which either means the refs are conspiring against us, we have selective memories or Bath cheat more obviously than other sides! As to sw's point, apparently you have to go straight at the ball, not go beyond it, get your balance and bring your arms back. Rugby needs these new laws methinks to tidy up the breakdown(imagine emoji with rolling eyes!).

Sorry SW, that doesn't remotely explain your query- misread it. That one, not a clue. What does it even mean? I increasingly feel that all these technical laws mean that refs have too big an influence on deciding games. All too complicated imho

good game but as usual the start and end were rubbish from bath. redpath needs to stop giving intercept passes away. there has been one in each game he has played since lockdown. pity he couldn't offload in that lovely break he made. not enough gas. still he did some lovely things, not least the off load for RM's second try.
reid and Bayliss were standout at 6/7. our back row so much better than v wasps. sam and Zac need to be worried.
TdG really looking the part. he has played three cameos so far and has been excellent in all of them.
the excellent performance from our youngsters has been a real bonus.
anyone explain to me why we had to lose a player with two hookers off the field but wasps didn't have to last week? Charlie Ewels was also bemused.
nice to see the boys chatting with ben tapuai at the end. we should never have let him go but blackadder wanted Willison who turned out to be a waste of time.

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bardofavon
good game but as usual the start and end were rubbish from bath. redpath needs to stop giving intercept passes away. there has been one in each game he has played since lockdown. pity he couldn't offload in that lovely break he made. not enough gas. still he did some lovely things, not least the off load for RM's second try .

Give the lad a break he's trying things and only 20 years old!

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bardofavon
nice to see the boys chatting with ben tapuai at the end. we should never have let him go but blackadder wanted Willison who turned out to be a waste of time.

He hasn't played much for Quins and was on a stack of cash at Bath if reports are to be believed - not one I think that Bath should regret losing too much aside from having got JR in return...

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

The uncontested scrums today seen as our fault. With Wasps it was an HIA. Presumably if it was a calf strain or some such you'd lose a player but with all the awareness of players suffering from the affects of HIA's the rules have been changed. Understandable as long as not abused- a bit like Blood gate with Quins a while back!

Enjoyable win in the sun. I was lucky enough to be there and it was great to firstly be back watching live rugby and secondly seeing us notch up a BP win. Cherry on top coming on ere to see BO mouthing off during the first 5 minutes... then nothing since. Superb.

Thought our physicality was immense today from 1-23. The back row were excellent. Bayliss and Reid were magnificent and Faletau had his best game in, er, well the 10 he has had in 23 months. He’s still off his Lions best but he was involved in everything. Ewels was putting it about everywhere too.

Interesting too to be there in a pretty quiet stadium and hear the noise and encouragement from our boys, especially from the bench. We might not be playing the prettiest rugby but Hooper, Hatley and Ewels seems to be engendering a very decent spirit.

Great fun. Onto Wednesday night! Only shame being Faz got a red and Wasps beat Sarries.

Another solid game with good performances throughout entire team.

But, out tight 5 and our half backs were outstanding. Rhys very very good.

Don’t like calling out the ref, but there were some decisions that left me scratching my head.

The first Quins try seemed to be well held up to me, and the Walker yellow was most peculiar.

Hoping that Watson is not too bad. TdG is a great prospect but still some way off finished article.

Just watched the game. Quins away was always the game that I went to with my London mates and I missed being there very much. Roll on the vaccine.

RP oitstanding and Ben Spencer has changed the pace of everything we do. TdG and Redpath look very promising but I think we need another experienced 12. Who's got a Ollie Devoto's number?

Being critical, I thought we took 15 minutes and 3 penalties too long to adapt to Foleys interpretations. Against a better side, that will cost us. If we don't have the on field leadership to address this, the coaches need to get more involved.

Finally, Roko's top end pace may, or may not, have gone but his step is still a thing of wonder and beauty. Nathan Earle must be wondering what happened

My MotM - Ben Spencer. I hope his ankle is OK

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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shipwrecked
Pleased with the win of course, Rory Mc its a burglar!
Those uncontested scrum laws look daft to me, should go equal numbers in the pack and be allowed to have a full complement of backs. I thought the ref guessed at a lot today and made errors but makes no difference in the end.

The difference between Spencer and Chudley is huge, hope BS isn't injured. TdG looks a proper player as well now with some real pace. Both Stooke and Baylis had a good games. Odd that our best back row probably is not the star studded one you would expect!

I worry at the end of games and don't feel confident in the last quarter of these games at all! Need to improve that area.

To be honest I would just as soon see Reid, Bayliss, T de G & Redpath in our line up as any of the illustrious international they would be replacing. When I see Chudley doing that annoying waving to his forwards I realise how much of a relief it is to have recruited Spencer. It is true that practically all our tries are scored either by the forwards or by moments of individual brilliance, rarely flowing moves involving the back line. It was a very satisfying win but I still think we have to get more out of our back line to qualify for the top 4 & become a real threat.

Just watched my Ch5 recording, excellent. One difference for me at the moment is our aggressive defence, some real grit and dog there. Set piece very sound, youngsters playing with confidence.

If I was a Quins fan I would be horrified at their handling, blew a few chances with Bath players carded (Walker incorrectly).

Despite our backs still looking bland at times I think there is enough in our game to worry other sides as it is hard to see a weakness other than needing more creativity in attack.

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shipwrecked
What is this shoulders over feet ruling, McNally was penalised for over reaching in the ruck, whats that all about?

Reading between the lines, i think refs may have been told to look for players whose hips are noticeably further forward thsn their feet when jackaling. The implication being they are not balanced and therefore not supporting their weight fully. Foley told McNally he hsd to be in a better position.

There were some hints of improved creativity in the backs (although not a lot). What is clear is that our defence had clearly improved in its aggression and physicality.

I still reckon we could do with a bigger ball carrier or two. Looking forward to Joe C returning.

Really pleased with the step ups of TdG, Bayliss and Reid this season and the recruitment of Spencer and Redpath.

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hasta
There were some hints of improved creativity in the backs (although not a lot). What is clear is that our defence had clearly improved in its aggression and physicality.
I still reckon we could do with a bigger ball carrier or two. Looking forward to Joe C returning.

Really pleased with the step ups of TdG, Bayliss and Reid this season and the recruitment of Spencer and Redpath.

Totally agree. Spencer and redpath improve us -smart recruitment.

Bayliss, reid, tdg and gh-w give us much needed options/depth.

If coko can bring the form he showed in the first half of last season then he will really add something.

Foley is and always has been a terrible, rabbit caught in the headlights, referee who on the day, knowing the media interest in the game in front of fans, made up as many rules himself as this he whistled on. His allowing the first Quins try when no one else in the ground including the TMO saw a grounding was finally compounded by the carding of Walker for not touching the ball. Don't get me going on his reffing the scrum which was a complete lottery. Bring back the redundant JP Doyle and replace him with TF.

I don't like criticising refs as it is a difficult job to interpret a multitude of rules at speed, but it is not the first time TF has struggled to get it right. For once, Carley seemed a calming helpful arbiter.

However, I am very glad it didn't effect the result and again we have shown some grit and determination, and a little growing belief, to get a win at a ground where our record for the same is very poor. I can it remember the last league win at the Stoop, apart for a knock out cup game years ago!

Although our handling and phase play was poor at times, some of our junior players put in very big shifts indeed, led by Bayliss and Reid who were outstanding for me. It played Robshaw. Obano too. Some of his tackling was awesome and made me wince. Redpath and DeG too did some very good things and McConnichie was always a threat and finished very well twice after having a lot to do.

Yes Rhys's kicking was top drawer but he still fails to get the line moving, allbeit with the Quins backs being offside very often. I hope Spencer is OK as he has become very important to the speed and accuracy of how we play the game. Watson still looks half the player he once was and another injury doesn't bode well. Roko may have lost his pace, but his menace in the tackle and at the breakdown is considerable.

I would have taken a one point win, and after Wasps, couldn't see one at all. However, congrats all round and having taken 4 out of 5 wins since the resumption, is satisfying. Very well done boys.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Looking at the stats we shouldn’t have won that game! We had 43% possession, we gave away 19 pens to their 12, we lost two of our scrums to their zero, they had 100% line out we had lost 3. The one stat that stands out is they conceded 23 turnovers to our 7.

This would indicate that we dominated in the loose. Our forwards made 76 tackles to their 65. Another features is defenders beaten and TdeG and Cam Redpath stand out.

I loved the cameo when these two had a smile at each other. Team spirit has clearly returned.

Well done to the team.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:09:06:09:05:12 by CoochieCoo.

Our three lost lineouts at least two of those were when we didn't have a hooker on the pitch.

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Rokobilly

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shipwrecked
What is this shoulders over feet ruling, McNally was penalised for over reaching in the ruck, whats that all about?

Reading between the lines, i think refs may have been told to look for players whose hips are noticeably further forward thsn their feet when jackaling. The implication being they are not balanced and therefore not supporting their weight fully. Foley told McNally he hsd to be in a better position.

McNally had his hands on the ground initially to support himself, due to being too far forward, that is what he was penalised for. The ref must be looking for body position that would not normally be balanced to help identify when hands are on the floor, even if the sight of that is obscured by the tackled player.
It seems wrong to me that this is a penalty offence, a free kick would seem more appropriate. Surely we want turn overs and a slightly mistimed one shouldn’t really cost you 3 points.

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dcsh

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Rokobilly

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shipwrecked
What is this shoulders over feet ruling, McNally was penalised for over reaching in the ruck, whats that all about?

Reading between the lines, i think refs may have been told to look for players whose hips are noticeably further forward thsn their feet when jackaling. The implication being they are not balanced and therefore not supporting their weight fully. Foley told McNally he hsd to be in a better position.

McNally had his hands on the ground initially to support himself, due to being too far forward, that is what he was penalised for. The ref must be looking for body position that would not normally be balanced to help identify when hands are on the floor, even if the sight of that is obscured by the tackled player.
It seems wrong to me that this is a penalty offence, a free kick would seem more appropriate. Surely we want turn overs and a slightly mistimed one shouldn’t really cost you 3 points.

If it’s only a free kick then players could just put their hands on the ground past the ball to just slow down possession without any real sanction. We wouldn’t want that.

Free kicks can be a pretty efficient punishment, since rugby restarted we have seen an increase in the number of quickly taken tap and goes, either gaining large amounts of ground or smashing over for tries. They also keep the game moving unlock the slow processes of kicking a penalty at goal or even for touch.

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hasta
Our three lost lineouts at least two of those were when we didn't have a hooker on the pitch.

Actually according to the stats we lost our first two line outs and the last one. They did have the upper hand at the beginning!

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dcsh
Free kicks can be a pretty efficient punishment, since rugby restarted we have seen an increase in the number of quickly taken tap and goes, either gaining large amounts of ground or smashing over for tries. They also keep the game moving unlock the slow processes of kicking a penalty at goal or even for touch.

Maybe freekick and 10m?

For those calling out to see Orlando Bailey on the pitch, it’s worth noting the difference between him, and TdG this year/last year. Tom - who is almost exactly 2 years older - is being introduced slowly but surely this ‘season’, and, rather than looking a bit out of his depth, is looking the part. Bailey could be ready, but I’m pretty happy that they manage him carefully.

Massive congrats Bath, proved me completely wrong, a very impressive win. Thought we might lose it when they scored their try late on but Boyce's interception killed the game

First 20 were awful but last 60 was pretty much all Bath, now let's put in a consistent run of performances like that and not just make this a one-off like usual.

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Optimist
For those calling out to see Orlando Bailey on the pitch, it’s worth noting the difference between him, and TdG this year/last year. Tom - who is almost exactly 2 years older - is being introduced slowly but surely this ‘season’, and, rather than looking a bit out of his depth, is looking the part. Bailey could be ready, but I’m pretty happy that they manage him carefully.

I agree but isn't not even putting him on the bench behind RP and JM beginning to look like over protection. Alternatively OB himself might be saying he isn't ready, which you would have to respect. If thats the case then he should be out of the picture altogether.

The hype on the clubs website seems to contradict this. It would be nice to know where we are going with his.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

The thing is bo, we have put in a consistent run of performances in this mini-season - 4/5 + a welcome return of BPs. The Wasps game was very frustrating, and if it was just one of several dodgy performances it would be futile to excuse it. However, in the context of the 5 games to date, it needs to be noted that going to unopposed scrums cost us, but more pertinently, Wasps are a very good side in a rich vein of form. Losing very narrowly to them is not a source of shame, just one of frustration.

Having said that. We have shot a lot of bolts now - some key players are starting to fray a bit - and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we field a shadow team at Wuss and lose that one, and we are more than likely to lose at Sale.

So maybe keep a sense of perspective on this if and when those defeats come. We’re not the finished article but we have made definable, discernible progress in the last 12 months. Where we have been scraping top 6, we’re now putting some daylight between ourselves and that mid-table scrap. We’re good enough to scrape top 4, but I think we all know what would happen if we actually finish 4th.

Our recruitment and Academy-transition management has been excellent. The likes of Faletau and even Underhill and Watson and JJ will be feeling pressure on their places. There’s plenty for a supporter to hold on to.

same with Max Green, didn't even get a minute from the bench - i would like to see him start in the midweek game and rest Spencer altogether (unless he is injured anyway).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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Optimist
The Wasps game was very frustrating, and if it was just one of several dodgy performances it would be futile to excuse it. However, in the context of the 5 games to date, it needs to be noted that going to unopposed scrums cost us, but more pertinently, Wasps are a very good side in a rich vein of form. Losing very narrowly to them is not a source of shame, just one of frustration.

Agreed opti. I also note Wasps were matching Sarries at Allianz & pounced once Farrell was binned - the sign of a good side.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Are we second only to Exeter for this 5-game spell? We’ve had a relatively friendly run but, as they say (when it suits them to say it, as opposed to it being a cliche of any particular merit) ‘you can only play what’s in front of you’.

Getting lots of try bonus points has been a...well...bonus. I think that we have as many post lockdown as we had in all the games pre-lockdown?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Well done RP who played as well as we have seen him play for three years...................however watch Glos v LI for really high speed passing, go forward and dynamism by both sets of backs...........we still look very slow.

This was the match when we should have got the bonus point wrapped up on 60 - 65 minutes and brought on OB with Spencer....

Also have you noticed that the Touch Judges are calling a lot more off sides as teams encroach. A very, very welcome policy change.....................a couple more weeks of this and people will be playing to the Laws.

I also forgot to add.................a chip kick from RP well executed which got us with ball in hand behind their rush defence..............I cheered very loudly!!

I thought it was a good all round performance. Some backs moves for a change. We aren't great in the backline from last week. Good to see us making adjustments to the ref after 15 mins also. Redpath looks like the kind of player who could get offloads away if only we had someone on his shoulder. TDG looks like he makes a bit of time for himself, wasn't rushed. Good sign in a young'un. Watson seemed to have a touch of the Mike Brown's, running around on his own but not looking to bring other players in. Needs to do a bit better tbh. Thought Bayliss and Reid were good and competitive. Faletau did nothing wrong but don't think he made a line break, not sure he made a really dominant tackle or jackalled a ball. Decent but not a marquee performance.
RP was great from the boot. Didn't take the ball to the line often but we all know that's not his thing.
Ref made a bit of a mess at times. Maybe Quins thought he did for them too. Might be a subjective thing.

I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

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Danchino
Redpath looks like the kind of player who could get offloads away if only we had someone on his shoulder.

Agree, in commentary they said Redpath ran away rom support and implied he wasn't quick enough. I thought that really unfair. He kept it alive as long as he could but lacked support, I thought that the backs were so shocked he made a line break they were caught out! Needs a try poacher like Ashton.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Danchinho
Maybe Quins thought he did for them too. Might be a subjective thing.

I doubt it...
First Quins try - no positive grounding
First yellow card for Bath - no hand involved so Bath should ave been down to 14 men after 'second' yellow
'Third' Quins try - was after the game was over. The clock wasn't running for 15 seconds after the lineout at 79.21

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shipwrecked

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Danchino
Redpath looks like the kind of player who could get offloads away if only we had someone on his shoulder.

Agree, in commentary they said Redpath ran away rom support and implied he wasn't quick enough. I thought that really unfair. He kept it alive as long as he could but lacked support, I thought that the backs were so shocked he made a line break they were caught out! Needs a try poacher like Ashton.

Yes i thought that was silly, was that dayglo?

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woodpecker

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shipwrecked

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Danchino
Redpath looks like the kind of player who could get offloads away if only we had someone on his shoulder.

Agree, in commentary they said Redpath ran away rom support and implied he wasn't quick enough. I thought that really unfair. He kept it alive as long as he could but lacked support, I thought that the backs were so shocked he made a line break they were caught out! Needs a try poacher like Ashton.

Yes i thought that was silly, was that dayglo?

Yep!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Tbf, in that instance he had 2 players to his left and none to his right. He went right anyway and didn’t have the gas to go past Herron. It’s a mistake any player can make. If a player on his right and made a punt and gone for it with him then they’d have been there to get the ball. 6 of this, half dozen of that imo.

I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

Thing is Danchinho....................YOU DO!

Yes I thought if Redpath looked left, he’d likely have put McCon away in the corner. Thought he did great to get to 5m out, so not the worst decision taken on a rugby field, but more likely we’d have scored had we gone left. Can’t remember if we’d actually scored from the field position he created?

The 2nd McCon try - with a TdG no look pass in the midfield and the most perfectly timed offload from Redpath that drew not just the first line of defence but the (England capped) full back too - was just majestic. A couple of bits of genius combined with power and pace. I don’t mind us having a simple game plan but it’s nice to see a little invention and trickery dusted on top. And great to see the young lads bringing it.

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dr.bath1865
Yes I thought if Redpath looked left, he’d likely have put McCon away in the corner. Thought he did great to get to 5m out, so not the worst decision taken on a rugby field, but more likely we’d have scored had we gone left. Can’t remember if we’d actually scored from the field position he created?
The 2nd McCon try - with a TdG no look pass in the midfield and the most perfectly timed offload from Redpath that drew not just the first line of defence but the (England capped) full back too - was just majestic. A couple of bits of genius combined with power and pace. I don’t mind us having a simple game plan but it’s nice to see a little invention and trickery dusted on top. And great to see the young lads bringing it.

This. That offload from Redpath in the tackle took out 3 defenders and put his winger away. If a SH player had done that we'd have been raving about it.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Yeah, I think I can see Redpath has a bit of flair about him. That break down the right when he tried the quick back door pass to Joseph. It didn't come off but it was a split second decision. Instinctual. Most English players seem to get the flair trained out of them. Hope it doesn't happen to him. It's hugely refreshing seeing someone up here trying SH style rugby. It doesn't always come off down there either but they don't go into their shell if it doesn't, they just keep trying it. Great mentality.
Also like the way Redpath seems to always beat the first tackler.
He does seem a bit weak on defence but I suppose the experience of partnering with Joseph will tighten that up.

Also want to give a shout out to Ewels who I thought showed lots of 'dog' and had great stamina.

I probably don't know what i'm talking about.

'Most English players seem to get the flair trained out of them' - i'm not sure this is true of the new generation coming through. If anything, I think some will be a bit nervous about using those skills when many DoRs will be preaching caution. But I think if you watch coaching at elite/academy type schools you'll see a lot of skills coaching going on.