DOUBLE OR STING? PREMIERSHIP FINAL EXETER V WASPS

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:27:12:23:47 by P G Tips.

Who is the ref? Assuming most of the first choice Wasps side is available, I agree with PGT. Much will come down to the officials and their interpretation of the breakdown, which, with a Willis or two, might easily go Wasps way. They also have the backs and half backs to disturb any side, especially with their all round speed. Should be a cracker of a game.

Exeter by less than 2 points.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

I fancy Wasps actually. If Racing hadn't had a suicidal scrum half and kicked their kick the trophy would be in France.

As BoB says it's all down to the breakdown, if Willis gets on top and wins a few penalties it could go wrong for Exeter.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Much as I would love Wasps to take it, the Exeter juggernaut will roll on I'm afraid. Wasps have barely trained for the last fortnight and Exe are battle hardened. Exe by at least 14.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Could go either way, Exeter have had a tough end to the season and Wasps can play with some freedom knowing they are not expected to win.

Great piece on Wasps in today's Telegraph - this seems to sum up the difference between them and us: 'Blackett speaks about the importance of viewing attack and defence as interconnected entities ... Jack Willis’ try in the semi-final ... swept 70 metres up-field following a turnover'.

What would we have done with turnover ball 70 metres out? Yep - hoofed it away.

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Optimist
Great piece on Wasps in today's Telegraph - this seems to sum up the difference between them and us: 'Blackett speaks about the importance of viewing attack and defence as interconnected entities ... Jack Willis’ try in the semi-final ... swept 70 metres up-field following a turnover'.
What would we have done with turnover ball 70 metres out? Yep - hoofed it away.

Eddie has the same philosophy so will he pick Jack Willis?

Incidentally the hoof it upfield merchant is often RP, why well perhaps running 70 metres is no longer an option!
Would Bailey or TDG hoof it?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:22:11:30:13 by shipwrecked.

Surely it depends on the circumstances such as the weather, who the opposition are, where they are arranged on the field (i.e. what the last play was) and what the score is in the game? There are plenty of occasions where hoofing it up the field is a better plan than running it from your line and Wasps do their fair share of kicking.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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BathMatt53
There are plenty of SOME occasions where hoofing it up the field is a better plan than running it from your line

ftfy

It's not just Priestland who hoofs it, it's Spencer too.

'Eddie has the same philosophy so will he pick Jack Willis?'

Does he? England are prime hoofers of turnover ball. And, let's face it, every media article that proclaims Jack Willis the future lessens the likelihood of Eddie picking him, poor chap.

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Optimist

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BathMatt53
There are plenty of SOME occasions where hoofing it up the field is a better plan than running it from your line

ftfy

It's not just Priestland who hoofs it, it's Spencer too.

'Eddie has the same philosophy so will he pick Jack Willis?'

Does he? England are prime hoofers of turnover ball. And, let's face it, every media article that proclaims Jack Willis the future lessens the likelihood of Eddie picking him, poor chap.

Whilst true Ben Spencer runs in tries, he has regularly scored from 9 which is something WC et al failed to do, when was the last time RP ran in a try?

If you don't threaten from the middle its obvious who to rush next.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:22:13:11:08 by shipwrecked.

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shipwrecked
when was the last time RP ran in a try?

Was it the Clash vs Bris?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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BathMatt53

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shipwrecked
when was the last time RP ran in a try?

Was it the Clash vs Bris?

Not sure Matt but Jacob Umaga and Marcus Smith have both scored 7. Lets get OB2 on that list.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:22:13:38:32 by shipwrecked.

weather will have the decisive say in the battle and it looks like it will rain which will nullify any attacking advantage wasps may have. they play the more entertaining rugby so I will be supporting them, despite those fishy uncontested scrums...

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Wasps: 11 players unavailable for Premiership final against Exeter Chiefs

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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BathMatt53
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54644695
Wasps: 11 players unavailable for Premiership final against Exeter Chiefs

Of whom 4 were expected to be in a first choice 23.
Not ideal, but it depends which 4- i.e. are they key decision makers, do Wasps have cover etc?



PG

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P G Tips

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BathMatt53
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54644695
Wasps: 11 players unavailable for Premiership final against Exeter Chiefs

Of whom 4 were expected to be in a first choice 23.
Not ideal, but it depends which 4- i.e. are they key decision makers, do Wasps have cover etc?

PG

Yes quite, if its Willis, Umaga, Gopperth and Robson they may as well not bother!

Malakai Fekitoa and Ryan Mills are definitely out already, which means Juan de Jongh for his second game this year I think (or something like that).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:10:22:14:54:27 by BathMatt53.

Naturally there is discussion on the missing on Wasps board.

Apparently a training snapshot shows most of the squad in action. Those missing are thought to be:
Brookes, Shields,
Gaskell, Oghre & Barbeary

[m.rugbynetwork.net]

The first two are big losses but if these names are accurate Wasps could still field a pretty competitive 23.

PG

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P G Tips
Naturally there is discussion on the missing on Wasps board.
Apparently a training snapshot shows most of the squad in action. Those missing are thought to be:
Brookes, Shields,
Gaskell, Oghre & Barbeary

[m.rugbynetwork.net]

The first two are big losses but if these names are accurate Wasps could still field a pretty competitive 23.

PG

Do you mean this Brooke Shields? I can't see her listed in their squad.




Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

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P G Tips
The first two are big losses but if these names are accurate Wasps could still field a pretty competitive 23.

Not as bad as it could be but add Fekitoa and it makes an already hard task even harder. Interestingly Skybet has Exe by 12.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Where would you be without a straight man SW?

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

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BathMatt53

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P G Tips
The first two are big losses but if these names are accurate Wasps could still field a pretty competitive 23.

Not as bad as it could be but add Fekitoa and it makes an already hard task even harder. Interestingly Skybet has Exe by 12.

A windy day with 20% chance of rain at Twickenham would favour Exeter but can they get up for it after the Champions Cup win. Have to admit I may be wrong but don't write Wasps off.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

bardofavon
weather will have the decisive say in the battle and it looks like it will rain which will nullify any attacking advantage wasps may have

Not every team looks up at the sky and thinks, 'ooh, a bit of rain, better stick it up the jumper'.

Sure, it will rein them in a little bit - but there are 6 (?) ultra-grippy match-balls around the game, constantly being dried, and the players spray their hands with some sort of adhesive. If a team likes putting pace on the game, it won't stop them unless it's absolutely torrential and stormy.

I'm still assuming Exeter will win, by the way.

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Optimist

Quote:

bardofavon
weather will have the decisive say in the battle and it looks like it will rain which will nullify any attacking advantage wasps may have

Not every team looks up at the sky and thinks, 'ooh, a bit of rain, better stick it up the jumper'.

Sure, it will rein them in a little bit - but there are 6 (?) ultra-grippy match-balls around the game, constantly being dried, and the players spray their hands with some sort of adhesive. If a team likes putting pace on the game, it won't stop them unless it's absolutely torrential and stormy.

I'm still assuming Exeter will win, by the way.

Superglue?

They always used to use 'Rosin' in tug 'o war challenges.

Wayne Barnes has tested positive for coronavirus so will be replaced as 'sir' for the final by Craig Maxwell-Keys.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Teams:

Exeter: Hogg; Nowell, Slade, Devoto, Woodburn; Simmonds (capt), Maunder; Hepburn, Cowan-Dickie, Williams, Skinner, Hill, Ewers, Kirsten, Simmonds.

Replacements: Yeandle, Moon, Francis, Gray, Vermeulen, Hidalgo-Clyne, Steenson, Ian Whitten.

Wasps: Minozzi; Kibirige, de Jongh, Gopperth, Bassett; Umaga, Robson; West, Taylor, Toomaga-Allen, Launchbury (capt), Rowlands, J Willis, Young, T Willis.

Replacements: Oghre, Harris, Alo, Gaskell, Morris, Vellacott, Sopoaga, Le Bourgeois.

Shields, Brookes, McIntyre & Barbeary missing for Wasps -otherwise strong. Exeter at full strength with a few tweaks.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Exeter by quite a lot.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quite happy Wayne is not refereeing, I think his retirement is well timed.

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shipwrecked

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BathMatt53

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P G Tips
The first two are big losses but if these names are accurate Wasps could still field a pretty competitive 23.

Not as bad as it could be but add Fekitoa and it makes an already hard task even harder. Interestingly Skybet has Exe by 12.

A windy day with 20% chance of rain at Twickenham would favour Exeter but can they get up for it after the Champions Cup win. Have to admit I may be wrong but don't write Wasps off.

Interesting thought that Chiefs will struggle for motivation. The feeling in the camp is apparently that they underperformed 8n the Euro final, as a long time supporter I agree. That's enough motivation to finish on a high and become part of a rare breed, the double winners!

Im full of hope!

Real shame about the rain. That'll suit Exeter's one attacking play, belly flopping for tries.

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ballsout
Real shame about the rain. That'll suit Exeter's one attacking play, belly flopping for tries.

Just seen their outside centre belly flop over from 30 metres out!

PG

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P G Tips

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ballsout
Real shame about the rain. That'll suit Exeter's one attacking play, belly flopping for tries.

Just seen their outside centre belly flop over from 30 metres out!

PG

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CoochieCoo

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P G Tips

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ballsout
Real shame about the rain. That'll suit Exeter's one attacking play, belly flopping for tries.

Just seen their outside centre belly flop over from 30 metres out!

PG

They ran in a try once in a blue moon so my post is invalid

It certainly disproves your 'one attacking play' theory

Wasps competing very well but I can’t see anything other than Exe power and bench strength winning out. I would also like just once to see Exe penalised for clearing out the player several metres beyond the ball.

A very pleasing result, a great team and totally deserve the double. Wasps had an incredible second half of the season, well done to them too.

Atrocious conditions but credit to both teams that both tries came from open play!

Tremendous effort by the whole club over a decade.
Wanted Wasps to win mind just cos I find them exciting, which of course would have been dreadful for Exe. However I still feel the biggest travesty are all those previous trophies that should have been theirs but for well you know what, cheats.
Well done Exe.

SQUAWK

Can someone help me with how the BBC are describing this victory please.
They keep using the phrase "historic double". As far as I'm aware Leicester, Wasps and Saracens have all won a Premiership and European double, so why is this "historic"?

Agreed. Wasps made a real game of it today and both sides did well in awful conditions.

Exeter thoroughly deserved double champions- an incredible journey. Hats off to Rowe, Baxter and the squad!

PG

By modern standards of the word, I'd say any league and Big Cup double is historic. Particularly when you've come from the Championship ten years ago and haven't spent big. Congrats to Exeter.

Very good game in awful conditions. Exe worthy winners and definitely the best team in England at present. Qudos to Wasps for being so competitive with virtually no scrum or line out platform.

One thing I didn’t understand was why Maxwell Keys didn’t speak to both captains about the bad language. The BT commentator must have had to apologise on the players behalf half a dozen times.

Well played both teams but, given Wasps' build up, a moral.victory for them, I think. But for sheer consistency across the year, Exeter deserved to win the Premiership.

If Eddie has any sense at all, Joe Simmonds should be in the England squad and Faz should be a 12. But he doesn't so they won't.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

You don't need Farrell in the side with Joe Simmonds. Already JS gets his line going better and his kicking from tee and hand is probably better and more consistent. Also, his tackling technique isn't fraught with danger of being sent off. Plus of course, he is growing into captaincy.

Let the cheats from North London go off and count their cash and caps and let England rugby regain some dignity and honesty built on hard work, no little talent and playing for each other. Let's get rid of the EJ regime of playing, ignoring players of more talent and form than his chosen players and introduce a true, decent, honest Englishman who is an exceptional motivator and communicator. If the RFU have not lined up Baxter to take over from Jones when their respective contracts expire in 2023, they are more stupid than I thought possible.

Adopted player 2020/21 Beno 'the Transformer' Obano


Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.The Jink Joseph.
Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Quote:

Bathovalballer
If the RFU have not lined up Baxter to take over from Jones when their respective contracts expire in 2023, they are more stupid than I thought possible.

Question is BoB: does he want it?

PG

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Bathovalballer
Let the cheats from North London go off and count their cash and caps and let England rugby regain some dignity and honesty built on hard work, no little talent and playing for each other.

Are you suggesting that Sarries won their titles, not because they were talented, played for each other, and worked extremely hard but because they were paid more ? Or that those Sarries players therefore didn’t deserve their England caps and deserve to have their careers and livelihoods threatened ?

Saracens financial corruption damaged the domestic game and was rightfully punished. As far as I am aware though it was not the fault of the players, many of which I hope to see in an England shirt again. You should also remember that Spencer was part of that group and no different from those that remain with the Saracens club.

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P G Tips

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Bathovalballer
If the RFU have not lined up Baxter to take over from Jones when their respective contracts expire in 2023, they are more stupid than I thought possible.

Question is BoB: does he want it?

PG

Tony Rowe seems to think he does PG.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Interesting to see how Baxter changed the style of play to suit the conditions, well done Exeter, still sounds a bit odd saying Exeter are the top team in Europe this year but they certainly deserved it. Had to turn sound off as game being spoilt by stupid commentator giving a list of supporters who could not be there because of restrictions, why does everything have to be brought down to the intelligence level of the One Show?

Terrific game considering the amazing conditions!

Wasps fought so hard and I was worried at one point they might prevail, but no chance with a team and coaches who know how to win games repeatedly . Very very pleasing that many of the Exeter players are at the same club they joined either through the Academy or been spotted by Baxter et al and signed up coz he judged that they had potential and the right attitude. p.s. slight pride that Ollie Devoto and Olly Woodburn, formerly of our parish, have gone on to shine. Devoto from Sherborne and Woodburn from Bath. As said towards the end o the commentary, Exeter are what all rugby clubs should aspire to - a real community product. Too many Premiership Clubs seem to have lost that along the way with 'professionalism' and money being the driver. I know many of you will disagree with this, but take a look and see.


I too got fed up with the idiotic comments by is it Mullins - I do wonder whether he has ever been a rugby supporter in real life i.e. paid for a season ticket, stood in the rain and watched his team lose in a bad season. Maybe its not him but the egotistical production team with an eye on viewing figures who set the tone! Thank goodness for Monye and Healey. Dillydally should not have been commentating yesterday - unfair to expect him to be objective!!!

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shipwrecked

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P G Tips

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Bathovalballer
If the RFU have not lined up Baxter to take over from Jones when their respective contracts expire in 2023, they are more stupid than I thought possible.

Question is BoB: does he want it?

PG

Tony Rowe seems to think he does PG.

If he has any form of ambition he should.

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OutsideBath

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shipwrecked

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P G Tips

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Bathovalballer
If the RFU have not lined up Baxter to take over from Jones when their respective contracts expire in 2023, they are more stupid than I thought possible.

Question is BoB: does he want it?

PG

Tony Rowe seems to think he does PG.

If he has any form of ambition he should.

If he has any form of sense (and he does), he won't touch it with a barge pole.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

I wasn’t able to watch the game but the score seems to suggest that Wasps are a heck of a lot closer to Exeter than we are or is that too simplistic a read out?

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Bath Hammer
I wasn’t able to watch the game but the score seems to suggest that Wasps are a heck of a lot closer to Exeter than we are or is that too simplistic a read out?

The weather evened things up a lot. Both sides had to play a game that they usually don't which meant that neither was as accurate as normal. Wasps played very well. Exeter played very effectively.

Wasps are going to miss Jimmy Gopperth a lot next season. He's what makes their back line tick and I don't see that they have a replacement. Umaga is a bright prospect but its too soon for him.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Has Jimmy Gopperth resigned?