PIRATES’ LAIR: LA ROCHELLE v BATH

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:21:12:38:02 by P G Tips.

I really hope they let Roko start, I wouldn't be happy if I was him.

Quote:

woodpecker
I really hope they let Roko start, I wouldn't be happy if I was him.

Certainly not when playing 2nd fiddle to Cokanasiga at any rate - I know which one I prefer!!!

Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!

La Rochelle away. Cut our losses, play the kids, give it a not too serious lash, focus on the Prem.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Not sure about the kids but I certainly wouldn't play any of the internationals, have a really important run of Irish, Tigers and then Wasps coming up over Xmas and NY and will need the strongest team available and refreshed. So, Stooke and W Spencer at lock, Bayliss, Reid in there, Clarke and Wright in the centres, maybe get Muir involved instead of RmC? I would play Joe C though, get him some more game time. Where is Boyce, is he injured?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

joethefanatic
La Rochelle away. Cut our losses, play the kids, give it a not too serious lash, focus on the Prem.

+1

We’re only on the tournament to make up the numbers, PL is more important.

I really do t understand this let’s throw the game suggested approach. The team fought really hard to get a place in the top European cup and to not compete after one marginal loss seems absurd.
As is the quote let’s concentrate on the League so that we can qualify for the cup next year....and then not compete again .? Sorry but I don’t get it.

Quote:

TG Kesmo
I really do t understand this let’s throw the game suggested approach. The team fought really hard to get a place in the top European cup and to not compete after one marginal loss seems absurd.

In a normal season I agree that one loss wouldn't be catastrophic. In this seasons Euro set up any team will find it extremely tough to get through with even one loss, especially if they are not used to getting 5 points on a regular basis. Remember that Tier 1 from each league play Tier 4s (we are Tier 2) and there are only 8 teams into the knockouts.

[twitter.com]

So I think that Bath would probably have to win their next 3 euro games with 5 points in each and hope that other sides (like Leinster, Exe, Racing) slip up against weaker opposition.

8 teams will drop down from the Champs cup to Challenge Cup though and that could be possible.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Is there a declared squad for European games as in other years. if so how many of 'kids' and 'second' teamers are in it?

I understood that due to Covid no squad had to be submitted, hence Glos playing anyone who has a pair of boots last weekend.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

We'll probably win this one, in a usual one-off good performance. Hope so anyway, that would make it 2 wins in our last 14 European games. With the quality of squad we have. What a joke.

Quote:

ballsout
We'll probably win this one, in a usual one-off good performance. Hope so anyway, that would make it 2 wins in our last 14 European games. With the quality of squad we have. What a joke.

Are you sure BO? They are a quality outfit it would be a big win!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

You can get 9/2 on a Bath win. I wont be taking it.

One loss may not necessarily be fatal. But in our case, this one was our best chance of a win out of the 4 fixtures. So it's fair to say it's fatal.

Bath are able to put a good performance together one in 5 games, so this might be the one. It usually follows a particularly poor loss.

How many out of the possible team mentioned came through our academy? I can count 3. Isn't the target to have 50% of the squad coming from the academy?

Obano, Walker, Stuart, Ewels (Capt.), Stooke, Williams, Underhill, Mercer. Spencer, Matavesi. McConnochie, Redpath, Joseph, Rokodoguni. Watson.

Quote:

cb2
How many out of the possible team mentioned came through our academy? I can count 3. Isn't the target to have 50% of the squad coming from the academy?
Obano, Walker, Stuart, Ewels (Capt.), Stooke, Williams, Underhill, Mercer. Spencer, Matavesi. McConnochie, Redpath, Joseph, Rokodoguni. Watson.

Yes the target is 50% of the squad from the academy...players such as Clark , Atkins, Doughty and Will Spencer all came from academy. That 50% may not play of course...

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Email from the club MATCH OFF

A member of Scarlets Rugby tested positive for COVID-19 this week and as a result, a total of 12 Bath Rugby players from last weekend’s matchday-23 have been named as close contacts and are now in isolation.

EPCR also said injuries were a factor in us not being able to get a proper squad together which is a bit worrying.

What a pity!
A club we have not played before and a chance to show a revival after last weekend.
Bath have a good record away to French sides.

Still - the right decision - health trumps rugby.

PG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:17:20:49:14 by P G Tips.

More than a little annoying that a failure in Scarlet's testing (bearing in mind they had already had confirmed cases) results in Bath having to cancel and therefore presumably forfeit the match too. I feel that Scarlets need to suffer a sanction too.

Full email

It is with deep disappointment that we announce the cancellation of this weekend’s Heineken Champions Cup fixture against La Rochelle.

A member of Scarlets Rugby tested positive for COVID-19 this week and as a result, a total of 12 Bath Rugby players from last weekend’s matchday-23 have been named as close contacts and are now in isolation.

Due to the impact on selection availability of forwards, it is not possible to safely fulfil the fixture on Saturday.

When informed, Bath Rugby acted immediately to isolate the players concerned and has been in constant communication with Premiership Rugby, the RFU, Public Health England and EPCR.

Stuart Hooper, Director of Rugby commented: “We are hugely disappointed that we are unable to play this fixture, but the health and safety of our staff, players and families - and that of La Rochelle’s rugby community must be our top priority. Our focus now is to continue to protect our people, and to prepare for our upcoming Gallagher Premiership fixture against London Irish on Boxing Day.”

EPCR will now meet to decide the result of the cancelled fixture and their decision will be communicated in due course.

This news follows the cancellation of Exeter’s round two game against Toulouse, and Glasgow Warriors' fixture against Lyon being cancelled on the same grounds yesterday.

Unrelated, Bath Rugby received one positive COVID-19 test this week from an injured player who is not currently in training, and one further player was identified as a close contact.

Can anyone explain how the Scarlets next game is on. did they not contact their own players on the pitch or during travel to the game. Weird we had 12 close contacts they had none?

It too bothered. Winning this match was only a remote possibility. We need to get players fit & rested up for the competition that matters for us.

I too think it is odd. I note the statement does not mention any Bath player testing positive-only that 12 were close contacts.

There may yet be a need for Scarlets to cancel too.

PG

It doesn't seem possible that Bath have 12 players having to isolate and yet Scarlets have none.

They had Covid in their squad before our match. Clearly their testing has failed, and they need to pay a price for that, not just Bath being the ones penalised.

I think it's going to happen to everyone at some point, perhaps not Sale if anyone. Be nice to get it out of the way in a way.

They’re making 10 changes from the team that played us, partly because of COVID. It says as much in the team news ahead of their game against Toulon:

Quote:

“Scarlets' selection has also been affected by one positive case in their weekly Covid-19 tests.
A small number of close contacts were identified among the squad and those players are self-isolating and were unavailable for selection.”

Presumably they just have sufficient coverage in their squad to replace all the affected players.

Struggling to be too upset assuming everyone is in ok health. Our games over the last month have been a grim watch and last weeks result made it nigh on impossible to achieve anything in Europe this year.

Be good to get some players rested and recovered.

Which lucky analyst has the job of scouring 80 minutes of rugby and working out who has been within 2.5 metres of who? Would have been a quicker job in my day. What number? 10? Yep, you’re fine. You didn’t go near any of their lot.

Quote:

DanWiley
I think it's going to happen to everyone at some point, perhaps not Sale if anyone. Be nice to get it out of the way in a way.

I don't think that Bath actually have any confirmed cases in the isolation group so not out of the way fortunately / unfortunately depending on your priorities.

What is clear is that this Euro competition is going to be for entertainment only this year, not too much to be read into the overall results if this sort of thing continues (i.e. abandoned matches every week).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

DanWiley
I think it's going to happen to everyone at some point, perhaps not Sale if anyone. Be nice to get it out of the way in a way.

What is clear is that this Euro competition is going to be for entertainment only this year, not too much to be read into the overall results if this sort of thing continues (i.e. abandoned matches every week).

Which could be an opportunity to inject a little experience into the academy perhaps? Just saying.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Which could be an opportunity to inject a little experience into the academy perhaps? Just saying.

I don't think that you will get any dissenters on this board SW, we are all with you on that one. I guess we don't know if those isolating are all front 5 (10 of them with benchers) which could make it impossible, certainly those who are available from Scarlets would indicate that this was the case.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

cunning tactic from scarlets. announce a covid infection post match, force bath to cancel- effectively ending our participation in the tournament AND they get to keep the rag doll.
strangely only a few scarlets players have 'been in contact' with the infected player so the club is free to play toulon tonight. how can that possibly be?
i think hooper has more explaining to do.

Good luck waiting for an explanation, the club has pretty much stopped communication with the fans.

OB- i've just emailed the club telling them their behaviour in this regard is unacceptable. if everyone on here did the same thing we might see some progress.

Quote:

bardofavon
cunning tactic from scarlets. announce a covid infection post match, force bath to cancel- effectively ending our participation in the tournament AND they get to keep the rag doll.
strangely only a few scarlets players have 'been in contact' with the infected player so the club is free to play toulon tonight. how can that possibly be?

i think hooper has more explaining to do.

I don’t think Hooper has explaining to do at all they have been notified of a player who was positive and they have done everything according to the rules. It does seem very unfair as the team fielding the positive player does not seem to have done this. They obviously didn’t prior to our game and have therefore caused us to forfeit the next game whilst miraculously having enough players to fulfil their fixture. Exactly the same as last week. Good luck to their opponents who are probably going to have to miss their next game too.

Given the number of Bath players isolating, the vast majority have to be front 5 forwards.
So considering Scarlets lost 2 or 3 front five forwards to injury during the game it beggars belief that their squad is deep enough to be able to still have 6 front rowers and at least 3 second rowers fit, not isolating, covid free and therefore available.

Also did all those at the Rec last Saturday from Scarlets travel of Bath in separate vehicles, or were they all on one coach?

I don't think Bard (see the use of capitals there?!) is being at all fair on Hooper and Bath.
The explanations and questions should be asked of Scarlets, and they also need to explain why their recently covid infected squad clearly wasn't free of the virus. Their testing has failed.

Exactly what is unacceptable?

The club following the rules of the Govt?

The club after consultation with PHE, EPCR, the Premiership and the RFU listening to their advice and deciding it was not safe to proceed?

The club considering the safety and health of their employees?

It was all communicated in the email which got through the embargo of communications to the fans!

It would appear that Bath have more concern for their players and the players families than Scarlets do. I think this close to Christmas and with more fixtures scheduled the club have taken the right approach .
I just wish there was better guidance in place as to what constitutes an “ outbreak”.
Scarlets appear to have had positive tests for the last three rounds including several of their playing staff. When is enough enough? Are they using lateral flow tests that only pick up 50% of positives?

Quote:

CoochieCoo
Exactly what is unacceptable?
....

It was all communicated in the email which got through the embargo of communications to the fans!

I have mentioned previously that I think that the club could be / should be communicating more, but in this case it seems that they got it 100% right IMO.

One thing that we did mention is that with the Chron dropping the Q&A it would be great to have it replaced by something. It wouldn't be too difficult to take a leaf out of Glos book?

[twitter.com]

Questions such as 'Q: Can we have an update of injuries each week?

A: We are developing a webpage that will keep supporters up to date on injuries.'

[twitter.com]

CC / PGT I think that you have a communication channel with the club, is it possible to find out whether something like this is viable? The issue otherwise is that where there is a vacuum it will be filled with something (generally nonsense).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I know what you mean BM, but a vacuum and the freedom to speculate is the very lifeblood of this board!

True, but I think that there is a happy medium somewhere Opti...

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

A 'happy medium' .... perhaps that's what is needed by us to divine what Hooper is actually thinking!

Mystic Meg at 9 with David Icke the playmaking 10.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

Optimist
Which lucky analyst has the job of scouring 80 minutes of rugby and working out who has been within 2.5 metres of who? Would have been a quicker job in my day. What number? 10? Yep, you’re fine. You didn’t go near any of their lot.

So true, so true

That def made I laff

Now Toulon have called off their game - not Scarlets - so the latter will no doubt end up with the points!!!

Quote:

hemington
Now Toulon have called off their game - not Scarlets - so the latter will no doubt end up with the points!!!

Sorry I can't seem to add a URL (no button). Its on BBC Sports anyway

[www.bbc.co.uk] - Toulon Pull Out

Quote:

hemington

Quote:

hemington
Now Toulon have called off their game - not Scarlets - so the latter will no doubt end up with the points!!!

Sorry I can't seem to add a URL (no button). Its on BBC Sports anyway

\
Toulon have called off their game

Its back on the desktop site, added above.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Will get to the point where it's all a bit pointless. Very sad. Would almost rather (especially from our point of view) they cooked up some sort of B team cup. Give first-teamers some much-needed rest, and squad members some much-needed rugby.

Quote:

Mike the Taxi
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55367563 - Toulon Pull Out

Can understand Toulon's position, they have a Top 14 game on the 27th which is probably more important to them. Playing Scarlets could put that game at risk.

Not concerned that Bath game this weekend is off, but do have concerns over the knock on effect for the LI game which is really important.

I assume we should be good for the Irish game, it’s 14 days after the Scarlets one

Wow, so Scarlets will be 2 for 2 simply because they aren't as cautious as Bath and Toulon. I get that the authorities had cleared it to go ahead but the competition is turning into a bit of a farce.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Seems reasonable from Toulon, Scarlets were in various stages of isolation in the period before playing Bath and still ended up with a positive case that has forced a dozen Bath players to isolate and forfeit a match. There has to be a good chance that more Scarlets players will be positive in the next round of testing which would force Toulon players to isolate and miss their next match.

I think this is the unfortunate reality of trying to continue the season during a pandemic.

I don’t know how players are deemed to have been “in contact” with infected players, but it must be a very different method to that being used by schools. A kid tested positive in one of my kids years earlier this week and all 65 kids from the 2 classes have been told to isolate until Christmas Day...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020:12:18:17:56:01 by dcsh.

Hearing that La Rochelle, Toulouse and Lyon have been awarded 28-0 wins against us, Exeter and Glasgow.

Joke competition!

EPCR Panel Results:
Pool A: La Rochelle 28 (x4 tries), Bath 0 (La Rochelle 5pts, Bath 0)
Pool B: Glasgow 0, Lyon 28 (Glasgow 0pts, Lyon 5)
Toulouse 28, Exeter 0 (Toulouse 5pts, Exeter 0)

Can't argue with ours but Exeter gonna struggle to defend the title!

Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!

Joke competition? What did you expect to happen! Obviously La Rochelle weren't going to be the ones penalised.

Quote:

P G Tips
Bath have a good record away to French sides.

We do? Since when?

Bath are world class at crashing out of cup competitions after a round or two. Oh well, maybe we'll win the Prem...

Quote:

ballsout
Joke competition? What did you expect to happen! Obviously La Rochelle weren't going to be the ones penalised.

Quote:

P G Tips
Bath have a good record away to French sides.

We do? Since when?

Through the competitions history. Why not look it up?

PG

Last five results...

Clermont Auvergne 52-26 Bath
Toulouse 20-17 Bath
Toulon 24 - 20 Bath
Toulon 12-9 Bath
Stade Francais 28-25 Bath

That's not "a good record away to French sides", regardless of what happened 20+ years ago.

Those 5 were disappointing yes.

Toulouse 18 Bath 35
Montpellier 5 Bath 30

Were in 2015 - hardly 20+ years ago.
Dig back a bit further you might find a few surprises.

PG

I really thing that the close contact element needs to be quizzed as it simply is impossible for Bath to have had 12 players in close contact with the hot player, yet Scarlets have only had 3 or 4. It's utter BS. Scarlets should be thrown out of the competition, end of.

Toulon have absolutely made the right call as clearly Scarlet's testing is inadequate, but they too will be shafted by ERC.

Quote:

plong
EPCR Panel Results:
Pool A: La Rochelle 28 (x4 tries), Bath 0 (La Rochelle 5pts, Bath 0)
Pool B: Glasgow 0, Lyon 28 (Glasgow 0pts, Lyon 5)
Toulouse 28, Exeter 0 (Toulouse 5pts, Exeter 0)

Can't argue with ours but Exeter gonna struggle to defend the title!

I can argue with ours we were only in the position that we couldn’t play because of Scarlets.
Ok we might have lost but just to dole out 5 points is wrong. This should have been taken from a no fault withdrawal point of view and maybe a 4 pt win to La Rochelle but no bonus and certainly not a 28 pt advantage.

Should make the return match against Scarlets juicy

Quote:

Dorset Boy
I really thing that the close contact element needs to be quizzed as it simply is impossible for Bath to have had 12 players in close contact with the hot player, yet Scarlets have only had 3 or 4. It's utter BS. Scarlets should be thrown out of the competition, end of.
Toulon have absolutely made the right call as clearly Scarlet's testing is inadequate, but they too will be shafted by ERC.

+1

Quote:

Disunited

Quote:

Dorset Boy
I really thing that the close contact element needs to be quizzed as it simply is impossible for Bath to have had 12 players in close contact with the hot player, yet Scarlets have only had 3 or 4. It's utter BS. Scarlets should be thrown out of the competition, end of.
Toulon have absolutely made the right call as clearly Scarlet's testing is inadequate, but they too will be shafted by ERC.

+1

It was actually said to be in contact with just two players. This is not credible. Presumably they travelled on the same bus for two hours from Llanelli. The positive player kept 2 metres from everyone in the changing room. He did not congratulate anyone after they scored or at the end of the game. And didn’t join a single ruck. No wonder Toulon didn’t want to play.

Gloucs v Ulster commentary just said N Ireland currently don't have an exemption for elite sport in their post Christmas lockdown. Presumably, as it is for 6 weeks, that would mean Ulster having to forfeit at least one of their last two games.

The whole tournament is now a farce.

We’re out of the competition so the obvious and sensible thing to do in the remaining 2 games is to give experience to all the younger players nominated in the European squad.

Doesn’t seem to be the Bath way though so what’s the betting we don’t even give them a chance on the bench?

And Scarlets have been awarded a 28-0 5 point win.
Disgraceful.

That just cannot be right

Toulon must be livid

Very O/T but as there doesn't appear to be thread for other games this weekend I did enjoy the Clermont Munster game and I thought Gloucester's European kit was great (a proper old school hooped combo)

Joke competition now. Most teams progressing will get there by not playing (& gifted 5 points) and/or playing fixtures where opposition throw the match by selecting weak teams as there is no point in them being competitive.
Scarlets should do the honourable thing & withdraw too 🤔

It's just something to fulfil the broadcasters contracts etc I'm sure, I wouldn't get too steamed up about it. Every penny counts at the moment for these clubs.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53
It's just something to fulfil the broadcasters contracts etc I'm sure, I wouldn't get too steamed up about it. Every penny counts at the moment for these clubs.

+1

Whoever wins the competition will always have a question mark over the validity of the win.

Wouldn’t it have been fairer to split points like a draw rather than punish one team , especially as the COVID can pop up anywhere at any time.
As others have said the competition is now a ‘Brian Rix’ ! For those that can remember him !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Just watched glos Ulster didn’t know the score. Cracking game even if you do.

Toulon getting increasingly grumpy with Scarlets. Threatening legal action because according to Westernmail they have found out that EPRC were told Scarlets had 16 contacts but didn’t call off the game or ask for another round of testing prior to the game. This Extra testing was only offered after Toulon had pulled out,
Strikes me if, as EPRC have said, that Scarlets followed all the protocols then the protocols aren’t fit for purpose.

As bm53 says, it's just about getting some rugby played. The sides all agreed and the organisers have made clear it's not about apportioning blame. I'm not offering a judgement on Scarlets as people were a bit too quick to do that over the Sale fiasco. Maybe they have messed up, but as for Bath, we got a similar result to if we'd gone out there and played but had an extra week's rest before a more important game and if the club gets its hotel bill and airfares cancelled it's saved a load of cash! (I would probably feel differently if I was going out to see the game or we had a chance of qualifying, but as neither apply...)!

TGK, that may well be the case, when clubs like Toulon and Exeter are in danger of elimination on anything other than rugby performance then are bound to be problems.

As CC said elsewhere its has become a joke of a competition. I've lost all interest.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
As CC said elsewhere its has become a joke of a competition. I've lost all interest.

Meh. I’m enjoying the games this weekend as a neutral. The teams all seem to be taking them seriously - to me there’s no “end of term” or exhibition feel to matches - and it’s entertaining enough fare.

I'm with you Barnoid, just watching the games as a neutral and enjoying many of them (particularly the French teams).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

SW - I'm not sure why you've brought Exeter into your response to TGK. Exeter appear to have followed the protocols, reported their positive tests and accepted the 28 - 0 loss. Other than a few comments on our board - which are not dissimilar to those on here about the competition becoming a farce - I've not seen any statements from Chiefs to indicate they think they've been harshly treated.

My personal view is that while EPCR say they aren't apportioning blame, a TBP win is a punishment rather than a compensatory score - a 4-point win (21 - 0) should be sufficient.

Toulon, on the other hand, chose not to play their match. That was their decision and they should accept the outcome - and, in fact, in this case, I think a TBP win is correct.

Ouch - Toulon didn't play the match because it is patently clear that Scarlet's protocols with regards to Covid are totally inadequate and they pose a significant health risk to their opponents as their set up seems unable to have a Covid free squad.

This isn't like the Exeter situation. Scarlets have had the best part of a month failing to clear Covid from their squad.

OTH, I wasn't meaning to imply anything like that. Just that games are being decided based on coronavirus rather the rugby results. Would Toulouse have won 4 tries to nil.
My point was that the games are worth watching as stand alone games but the completion is meaningless. Its not about a club's European merit its about viral security.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

DB - presumably though, it's not 'patently clear' because EPCR ruled everything was OK.

Personally, I wouldn't go near a Scarlets player and I don't blame Toulon either but within the rules of the competition Scarlets are safe

Blimey Quins took a pasting though. Has Mike Brown got ...... worse?

Quote:

Optimist
Blimey Quins took a pasting though. Has Mike Brown got ...... worse?

Still can't pass, and Ashton still can't tackle.

Quote:

Dorset Boy

Quote:

Optimist
Blimey Quins took a pasting though. Has Mike Brown got ...... worse?

Still can't pass, and Ashton still can't tackle.

Not sure Ashton passes either!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Dorset Boy

Quote:

Optimist
Blimey Quins took a pasting though. Has Mike Brown got ...... worse?

Still can't pass, and Ashton still can't tackle.

Well Ashton got his man to the ground at the end of the match, shame the Racing player had kicked the ball away about a minute earlier!

grim from quins. they did a very good Bath impersonation actually. spent most of the game half asleep, displayed an appalling lack of skill, the backs looked like they'd just met up that morning. their best players were two lads they brought off the bench- lang and chisolm.
quins have suffered over the years, like bath, for having to provide too many players to england. the ex england players they still have all look worn out. marler, care, brown, ashton all looked well off the pace. brown was really hopeless. i believe he is even slower now, no longer tackles effectively, still doesnt pass the ball.
questions must be asked of gustard, who everyone thought was the bees knees whilst at saracens. eddie bought into that too until he realised he'd signed a dud and released him. gustard did nothing at england and now he's doing nothing at quins.

Tough on Quins, Racing played out of their skins and a mid table (at best) English team is not likely to have much chance against a top French team with the resources available to them in France.