CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH


Cipriani -to play?
By PG Tips
May 25 2021

A clash of styles, one that may embarrass Bath, seems likely at the Stoop this Saturday. High scoring Harlequins have found a rich vein of attacking form, running in 32 tries in their past 6 Premiership outings. They will be desperate to atone for defeat at Leicester and know that victory should secure a Top 4 spot. Bath, by contrast, have seemed uncertain of their style in a run of 4 consecutive defeats. They urgently need to find both form and identity to avoid a fifth.

After a chequered start to their season, Quins dispensed with the services of Paul Gustard and threw off the shackles of a restrictive game plan. Attack coach Nick Evans has encouraged the players to create their own script, think for themselves. The results are plain to see. They boast the highest points tally and have notched the second highest try total. Bath meanwhile have found their forward driving game blunted of late by opponents who have seen it coming. They managed to let victory slip away against both Montpellier and Sale by persisting with the pick and drive, ignoring overlaps where dangerous backs lurked in space. Many pundits believe that, with the talent available, Bath should emulate Saturday’s hosts and let their backs run free. Supporters will hope that new attack coach David Williams and Danny Cipriani at fly half can spark more fluency, invention and incision. Williams does not arrive until pre-season, but Cipriani is now in his third week at Bath. Hopefully he will be trusted to play some part this weekend, to keep Quins guessing.

 

Guided by Adam Jones and led by Marler and Symonds, Quins have a solid scrummage and dependable lineout. They do the basics well to win and keep possession and their half backs play territory astutely. What sets them apart in attack is vision and alertness, Care and Smith always alive to space and gaps. Some of their most breath-taking tries this campaign have come from counter attack and turnover. They are however, far from invincible. Leicester showed the way by dominating them up front, as did Bristol. They also have one of the most porous defences in the Premiership. A high scoring game could be on the cards, but Bath will need greater accuracy and precision if they are to gain enough forward edge to score from mauls and pick and drive.

 

Among a number of interesting head to heads is a list of the overlooked. No8s Dombrandt and Mercer, scrum halves Care and Spencer, centres Joseph (if fit) and Marchant have been ignored by England this season and will have points to prove before the summer internationals, as will Sam Underhill. Others to look out for are Quins robust and pacey wing Tyrone Green and their Captain Stephan Lewies, the go to man at the heart of their pack.

 

Hopefully Will Stuart will be fit to reinforce a Bath front row hit by injuries and suspension. Rookie Tom Doughty did well against Sale and should continue in the absence of Dunn and Du Toit. If Walker is fit I would chose him as a bench option and show faith in the youngster. The rest of the team will probably have a familiar look, main points of debate being whether to start Cipriani or bring him on from the bench, and which of Reid, Bayliss or Ellis will join Faletau and Mercer in the loose trio. The devastating breaking news that Cameron Redpath has a serious ACL injury will require a backline reshuffle. If Joseph is fit, he and Clark may partner in the centre. If not, the choice could be between Wright, Bailey and - that man Cipriani.

 

Bath cannot be relegated, but they can climb the table for more favourable European seeding and to inspire hope for the 2022 season. Whichever style they adopt in search of a win, they must keep a full team on the pitch, having suffered 4 red and 2 yellow cards in the past 5 Premiership ties. They will need greater accuracy, concentration and discipline than in recent matches, as well as more perceptive and decisive onfield leadership. Fans will look for a performance to be proud of, and would it be too much to ask for a little touch of Cipriani magic?

 

Postscript: No plans for Cipriani to play this season. So Bailey into the 23. Maybe Ojomoh on standby for centre if Joseph still out injured.

PG

 

 

Possible Teams:

Bath: Schoeman, Doughty, Stuart, Stooke, Ewels  (Capt.), Faletau, Underhill, Mercer. Spencer, Priestland. Muir, Clark, Joseph, Watson. De Glanville.

Replacements: Bhatti, Walker, Thomas, McNally, Bayliss. Chudley, Bailey, Cokanasiga.

 

Harlequins: Marler, Baldwin, Louw, Symons, Lewies, Lawday, Kenningham, Dombrandt. Care, Smith. Earle, Lang, Marchant. Green.Morris.

Replacements: Gray, Garcia Botta, Collier, Young, Chisholm. Landajo, J Lang, Tapuai.

 

CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 16:59

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:02:14:45:54 by P G Tips.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 17:19

How reliable/solid is it that Cips is on the bench?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 17:21

Woody
The clue is in the word possible.
This is my proposed selection, not Hooper’s choice.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 17:42

I thought that Hoops said that Cips was training but very rusty and wouldn't be seen until next season.

Devastating news about Redpath, he has already had one ACL reconstruction in 2018.

Good though Mercer has been, as he is off I would be starting Bayliss. Will Spencer instead of Stooke for the same reason and Fox on the bench over Chudley.

Reid would be a definite starter up for me every week just because he deserves it on form. With Muir my player of the season to date.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 18:02

Quote:
P G Tips
Woody
The clue is in the word possible.
This is my proposed selection, not Hooper’s choice.

My question is less about whether Hooper picks him, more is he here/fit/viable i.e. available for selction - BM implies not really.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 18:09

He has obviously been off a while so may not be ready for a full match. However, he has been training since 10 May and with our midfield injuries we could do with someone of his experience- if the coaches feel the risk worth taking.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 18:31

Quote:
P G Tips
He has obviously been off a while so may not be ready for a full match. However, he has been training since 10 May and with our midfield injuries we could do with someone of his experience- if the coaches feel the risk worth taking.
PG

I reckon if we have a 50 point lead with 20 to go give him a chance.(Sm22)

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2021 22:42

Ojomoh should get a shot. Absolutely nothing to lose.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 09:56

Woody & Matt

Seems you are correct:
[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

Plan is to get Danny up to speed for next season. He was brought in before pre-season to ensure he integrates with the squad- rather than for playing reasons.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 14:58

According to Hooper in the Chronicle, du Toit has made a miraculous recovery and should be available. Unbelievable given what the injury looked like but good news and a bit of good luck, which we haven’t had on the injury/suspension front of late.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 15:39

Walker also injured so not on the bench. Du Toit and Doughty also said Matevesi fit so in the mix at centre in place of Redpath.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 15:46

Sounds like hooker just about covered.
Even with Josh M we could still be a bit thin in midfield for the last 3 games.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 17:34

Would playing Cips cause a cap problem for this season?

We could do with a photo of him in a Bath shirt as part of his integration....

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 18:10

There was a picture of him, on 14th May, Points West, holding (if not wearing) a Bath shirt and in the final frame of this Youtube promotion: [www.bathrugby.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:26:19:15:45 by Mike the Taxi.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: LSAR (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2021 19:06

I would start Doughty with Du Toit on bench, after being ignored for so long and coming on and hitting all 16 of his lineouts and DT just back from injury , Doughty deserves a start.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 08:07

Quote:
hasta
Ojomoh should get a shot. Absolutely nothing to lose.

100% agree. Give him a go between rhys and JJ/clark. He will become better than matavesi given half a chance.

Would have fox on the bench also.

I would give lots of guys a go but I don't care if we miss out on top 8 (would rather miss out and focus on league/ winnable euro comp if we get to latter stages)

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 08:19

Quote:
charlieboa
Quote:
hasta
Ojomoh should get a shot. Absolutely nothing to lose.

100% agree. Give him a go between rhys and JJ/clark. He will become better than matavesi given half a chance.

Would have fox on the bench also.

I would give lots of guys a go but I don't care if we miss out on top 8 (would rather miss out and focus on league/ winnable euro comp if we get to latter stages)

Not sure if it was simply an oversight by PG but Max Ojomo wasn't mentioned in the members event thread. He should be picked he hasn't let us down in any way.

https://i.ibb.co/YTDNDCdd/Tyler-Offiah-185.jpg

Tyler Offiah

Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 09:01

No he was not specifically mentioned SW, but I think they recognise his potential.
I would like to see him given a go too- but suspect JM will get the nod.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 12:01

Team Up. Mojo Starts:


BATH RUGBY TEAM TO PLAY HARLEQUINS

15. Tom de Glanville, 14. Joe Cokanasiga, 13. Max Clark, 12. Max Ojomoh, 11. Will Muir, 10. Rhys Priestland, 9. Ben Spencer; 1. Jamie Bhatti, 2. Jacques du Toit, 3. Will Stuart, 4. Josh McNally, 5. Charlie Ewels ©, 6. Miles Reid, 7. Sam Underhill, 8. Taulupe Faletau

REPLACEMENTS

16. Tom Doughty, 17. Juan Schoeman 18. Henry Thomas, 19. Will Spencer, 20. Josh Bayliss, 21. Will Chudley, 22. Orlando Bailey, 23. Jonathan Joseph

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 12:06

And Harlequins:

Harlequins team news

Harlequins

1. Joe Marler (221)
2. Scott Baldwin (38)
3. Wilco Louw (24)
4. Matt Symons (59)
5. Stephan Lewies (31) - Captain
6.Tom Lawday (35)
7. Jack Kenningham (9)
8. Alex Dombrandt (72)
9. Danny Care (302)
10. Marcus Smith (106)
11. Joe Marchant (108)
12. James Lang (80)
13. Luke Northmore (24)
14. Nathan Earle (39)
15. Tyrone Green (17)

Replacements
16. Joe Gray (169)
17. Santiago Garcia Botta (33)
18. Will Collier (184)
19. Dino Lamb (43)
20. Archie White (41)
21. Martin Landajo (32)
22. Ben Tapuai (41)
23. Aaron Morris (60)

Unavailable for selection:
Mike Brown, Andre Esterhuizen

Unavailable due to injury:
Cadan Murley, Craig Trenier, James Chisholm, Jordan Els, Louis Lynagh, Matas Jurevicius, Paul Lasike, Sam Riley, Scott Steele, Will Evans

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 12:11

Good looking team there and some sensible choices going with many of the players who are here next year. I assume that we have no other fit 9s than Chudley, otherwise Fox would have been on my bench. Great to see Stuart back (especially vs Marler) and equally interesting to see how Max Ojomoh gets on.

Joe Marchant on the wing is an interesting choice for them, I assume they are down to bare bones at 15 hence the re-jig.

COYB!

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 12:20

Well done duToit! Always nice when an injury is less bad than feared.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 12:42

Should be plenty of points in the game, kicking for 3 points all the time is not going to win it

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 13:21

Good team, good to see Bhatti start. Assuming the scrum holds up, looking to see something decent from Faletau.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 13:45

Really pleased to see Mojo getting a shot.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 14:41

Quote:
hasta
Really pleased to see Mojo getting a shot.

Agreed. Hope he goes well. from the little I've seen of him this season he looks ready. Has a nice break and directness that i think we need.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 14:46

Quote:
P G Tips
Quote:
hasta
Really pleased to see Mojo getting a shot.

Agreed. Hope he goes well. from the little I've seen of him this season he looks ready. Has a nice break and directness that i think we need.

PG

+1.

Given cams injury the next few weeks feel like a massive opportunity for him to cement a place for the first half of next season.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: FourSticks (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2021 20:52

Any reason (other than the obvious) why Zak has not been selected?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 13:40

This game is huge for Bath, failure to make Europe's top table is a massive cluster *!#@. Heads need to role if we fail.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 13:46

Quote:
FourSticks
Any reason (other than the obvious) why Zak has not been selected?

Hooper spoke of Reid and Underhill’ tackle power.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:04

How did they not score????? 2 v1

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:08

And we’re off to a great start in Quinn’s 22 ...............and then guess what ? Yes we lose the ball and instantly defending at our own 5 metre line and then Quins score all in the first 5 mins.
Have we been here before ? Don’t seemed to be shocked by this anymore .. sadly

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:11

At times we look really good, but we can't defend.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:13

Poor basics yet again 8-3

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:21

Nothings changed (Sm136). 15- 3

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:23

Great Try for McNally - poor defence from Quins . 15 - 8.

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:23

Great step, Care turned inside out

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:24

Our discipline is shocking.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:26

Kick offs ? Why can’t we catch them ?

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:28

Why is Care's shoulder to the head tackle nothing more than a penalty?
It's not red due to lack of force, but certainly yellow under the guidelines.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:30

Quick tap penalty from Ben - Try for Will Muir ! Looking better 15-15 (Sm128)

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:33

Think some of the Quin's fans have forgotten how offside works.

Why is Care allowed to keep getting away with high tackles, if that was Marler he would be off by now.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:33

What to make of this!! Rugby without box-kicking is a joy, for a start.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:34

Our restarts????

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:36

Restarts killing us.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:36

7 kicked it. Hopeless TMO

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:38

Love how Hooper said they haven't talked about their discipline!

I think they should.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:39

Mojo's inexperience in defence being cruelly exposed, not helped by JoCo either.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:42

Danny Care on thin ice with his tackling again , a real mess in our 22 and Marchant scores 22-18 big mistake from Toby. And BP try for Quins 29- 18 . I’m lost for words other than we are...............

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:47

If only we had a No10 who loves open attacking play uh!

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:48

32-18 HT
Terrible bar 10 minutes in the middle. Every mistake results in a Quins try, and we can't live with their speed of attack and unable to slow their ball down.

Will be a long second half unless they really up the intensity.
Also seem petrified of Smith's game so not closing him down.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:49

We need to break the bank for a defence coach.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:49

Why was the Merchant try not replayed in ultra slow motion by the TMO? Imho the no7 kicked it, game changer.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:51

Horror show.

Already missing Zacs industry.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:52

Penalty Quins . 32-18 And it’s half time team talk , Well Stuart Hooper can we score 15 or more points in the next 40 to win ? (Sm120)

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 14:52

Quote:
P G Tips
We need to break the bank for a defence coach.
PG

Absolutely. Has to be the most important off season change.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:01

Changes at half time ? Joseph and Bayliss on ?

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:05

Great score from Will Muir ! 32-23

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:17

Yellow for Marchant , penalty Bath 32-26

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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:18

Joseph and Bayliss on now , looking better !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:20

Great try.

Care tried to take Big Joe's head off again.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:20

Try Bayliss !! 32- 33.

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:21

Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Penalty Quins . 32-18 And it’s half time team talk , Well Stuart Hooper can we score 15 or more points in the next 40 to win ? (Sm120)

15 so far !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:22

Ref is knackered if he thinks that wasn't a knock on

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:27

TMO gone home?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:32

Does seem Quin's get away with the 50/50 knock ons, ref blows every time for Bath.

TMO once again not seeing what the replay is showing. It's shocking.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:32

How can they give that try?

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:32

Chudley on ? Why ? How was that not forward from Quins ? 39-33

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:34

So many mistakes by TMO! Ridiculous!

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:34

Quin's ask for penalty and ref gives it. Unbelievable.

Spencer why didn't you pass? 38-32 with a con to come different game!

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:40

Maybe Eddie Jones is right. Smith can't kick.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:42

Scrum changes and it’s all over the place, another penalty for Quins Smith misses 3 on the trot !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:43

Would have liked to have seen Cips for the last 10mins.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:47

Clash of heads for two Quins players , both needing treatment. No HIA ‘s ?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Barnoid (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:50

Referee calls, "Use it or reset", at the scrum then awards a penalty.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:54

Scrum falling apart again 4 scrum penalty’s in a row

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:55

2 forward passes for that try too

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:57

Who is the TMO?

Awful performance?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 15:59

What is the point of Hooper?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:02

Bucharest Wolves etc for us in Europe next season.

Awful defensive display.

Would swap Faleteau for Dombrandt in a heartbeat.

Max Ojomoh was good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:17:04:46 by CoochieCoo.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:06

If we don't make euro big cup Hoops is dust

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: A (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:07

Seems like we need a new forwards coach who understands the scrum, the current guy clearly isn't up to it. Or maybe its that the players aren't good enough and a major rebuild is needed. Its a good job that Gloucester have forgotten how to win or we could be bottom three after next weeks game.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:08

Quote:
Kidney Stone
Bucharest Wolves etc for us in Europe next season.

Bucharest is nicer than Swansea tbf.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:17:05:45 by CoochieCoo.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:10

Bath are ...........(Sm102)

Well Mr Hooper ? How many more times are we going to see this style of game ,

Coaching on a bean counter budget doesn’t work .

Still advertising Epic, Elite Entertainment more like Underwhelming, Undistinguished Mind-numbing experience. (Sm119)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:11

Sums us up quite nicely that game. Rather clueless, find ways to lose games, have a million front 5 coaches yet have a front 5 that gets regularly dismantled.

Back to the drawing board I think, work out what we are trying to be good at and actually be good at it may be a start.

Officiating was pretty dreadful I thought but that's by the by.

Some lovely touches by mojo. Massive fan of muir - he makes easy things look easy like the inside ball for bayliss try. We have too many players who make simple skills look impossible. Coko a bit of a mixed bag but at least looks like he is enjoying himself a bit more. Clark continues to improve- about the only inj free run he has ever had.

Plenty to build on ....but will we....not got huge hope. Need another coach in so hatley can get back to ensuring we have a front 5 who can at least compete let alone dominate.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:11

Yet another loss littered with errors & defensive lapses. Our level of performance at present is just not good enough by a country mile. At least there was none of that wretched pick & go and we at last put together some good attacking moves, mostly involving Will Muir, but something has to be done to make us competitive. Hateley clearly has too much responsibility being head coach, forwards coach & defensive coach. It’s not working & Hooper has to discharge his responsibilities more effectively.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:17

Quote:
dannyf2
If we don't make euro big cup Hoops is dust

Doesn't matter where Bath finish we are stuck with Hooper for the next few years, strangely it appears that results don't seem to be that important.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:19

We are where we deserve to be, lower part of the table doesn't lie. Awful season, awful management.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:24

Can we end the season now?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:25

Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
dannyf2
If we don't make euro big cup Hoops is dust

Doesn't matter where Bath finish we are stuck with Hooper for the next few years, strangely it appears that results don't seem to be that important.

I really think missing out on top 8 is for the best. It serves no purpose for us currently to be in the champions Cup.

Focus on league, take challenge cup seriously if we start with a few wins.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:26

At what point do people stop calling us "mediocre" and start calling us what we actually are... awful.

I ended up being gutted Smith missed about 20 points at goal, a 60 point thrashing might have finally instigated some much needed wholesale changes at the club. Starting with the CEO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:17:03:09 by CoochieCoo.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:30

If you had to identify one main issue would you say tarquin BO? I know v little about the guy. Assume your main issue is him appointing hoops who had no experience himself and giving him a very inexperienced coaching staff?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:31

Quote:
charlieboa
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
dannyf2
If we don't make euro big cup Hoops is dust

Doesn't matter where Bath finish we are stuck with Hooper for the next few years, strangely it appears that results don't seem to be that important.

I really think missing out on top 8 is for the best. It serves no purpose for us currently to be in the champions Cup.

Focus on league, take challenge cup seriously if we start with a few wins.

Missing out on top 8 should actually cost Hooper his job though.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:37

Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
charlieboa
Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
dannyf2
If we don't make euro big cup Hoops is dust

Doesn't matter where Bath finish we are stuck with Hooper for the next few years, strangely it appears that results don't seem to be that important.

I really think missing out on top 8 is for the best. It serves no purpose for us currently to be in the champions Cup.

Focus on league, take challenge cup seriously if we start with a few wins.

Missing out on top 8 should actually cost Hooper his job though.

Bruce is pretty ruthless when it comes to missing targets. The last Hoops interview was before our last three losses and he was speaking about top8 as if it was a given.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:44

As often seems to be the case glimpse of potential buried under a steaming pile of inaccuracy and indiscipline.

I struggle to understand some of the refereeing decisions, not they can be blamed for the defeat, but the officials seemed to have the same predefined script as the BT commentators that Quin’s can do nothing wrong and Bath nothing right...

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:46

I had the commentary on despite the bias, the TMO actually said no try offside for the kick forward by Quins 7 and was told she was wrong by the ref. She wasn’t and should have stuck to her guns saying what she had seen not allowing herself to be overruled.
I felt that Spencer was way too selfish on the one that got knocked out of his hand should have passed the guy outside had a walk in. So including Max Os which was unlucky two tries left out there. Still Smith couldn’t even kick one from in front of the posts.
I think max O shows great promise in attack but needs to work on his defence. A bit like de Granville when he first started.
Yes we probably didn’t deserve to win but I would much rather get a decent try bonus point than a losing bonus point with no tries. Not a driving maul in sight.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: fat lock (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:47

That’s what happens when a fairly decent team plays a god awful team.
I think this season had been an all time low for me, and we’ve had some bad ones in the last 20 years.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:58

Honestly how many of you thought we'd get a point from that game before kickoff?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 16:59

Thankfully D'Arcy Rae the man who was loaned out to Treviso and London Scottish and Johannes Jonker the man who never makes the Ealing matchday 23 will improve our scrum next season. And when I say never, I keep an eye on Ealing team selections most weeks and I've literally never seen his name on them.

All coached by that Bath legend Mark Lilley...

Utter shambles.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 17:18

Quote:
ballsout
Thankfully D'Arcy Rae the man who was loaned out to Treviso and London Scottish and Johannes Jonker the man who never makes the Ealing matchday 23 will improve our scrum next season. And when I say never, I keep an eye on Ealing team selections most weeks and I've literally never seen his name on them.
All coached by that Bath legend Mark Lilley...

Utter shambles.

That's a pretty nasty and unnecessary post about two players who haven't even joined the club, one what has had international caps.

Whatever good and fair points you make are ALWAYS undermined by your utter crassness in others. Just like when you slagged off the U18s very recently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:17:20:01 by Dorset Boy.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 17:32

It’s largely not about the individuals. We have world class players who perform way below that level. The team is not clicking & that isn’t mostly the fault of individuals. I’m not saying that good players don’t improve the side but mediocre players can become good players in a decent side.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 17:36

Quote:
Dorset Boy
Quote:
ballsout
Thankfully D'Arcy Rae the man who was loaned out to Treviso and London Scottish and Johannes Jonker the man who never makes the Ealing matchday 23 will improve our scrum next season. And when I say never, I keep an eye on Ealing team selections most weeks and I've literally never seen his name on them.
All coached by that Bath legend Mark Lilley...

Utter shambles.

That's a pretty nasty and unnecessary post about two players who haven't even joined the club, one what has had international caps.

Whatever good and fair points you make are ALWAYS undermined by your utter crassness in others. Just like when you slagged off the U18s very recently.

Agreed.
Watch it BO

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 17:48

Quote:
dcsh
As often seems to be the case glimpse of potential buried under a steaming pile of inaccuracy and indiscipline.
I struggle to understand some of the refereeing decisions, not they can be blamed for the defeat, but the officials seemed to have the same predefined script as the BT commentators that Quin’s can do nothing wrong and Bath nothing right...

I was astonished that the officials did not examine the Lewies try more closely for Dombrandt's forward pass and I am certain that Smith was in front of Marchant when Marchant passed in the build up to Landajo's try -the final one- the pitch markings show it.

Since Quins were winning penalties at will at the scrum in the last 15 minutes and Smith missed so many kicks, we would have been immensely fortunate to win,but games deserve better quality officiating than that.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathIron (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 18:06

I accept it was a much flawed performance but had Spencer scored as he should have done at 32-33 I think we go on to win that game.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 18:12

Yes. Dreadful aberration from him

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 18:33

Quote:
ballsout
Thankfully D'Arcy Rae the man who was loaned out to Treviso and London Scottish and Johannes Jonker the man who never makes the Ealing matchday 23 will improve our scrum next season. And when I say never, I keep an eye on Ealing team selections most weeks and I've literally never seen his name on them.
All coached by that Bath legend Mark Lilley...

Utter shambles.

Didn't darcy rae go out on loan aged 20? Seems fairly sensible to get some games at a lower but still decent level as a young prop?

That's a concern re jonker. Weird situation - didn't he join them relatively recently for a few seasons but is now coming to us? No idea what had happened there....

They would be doing some to be worse value for money than judge and Henry over the last few seasons. Sadly Henry is just injured too much and judge has gone backwards.

I think it's right to question Lilley (tho in a different way), our scrum has gone backwards....literally

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathIron (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 18:48

The scrum changed the minute Stuart departed. You have to admire the durability of Marler but it does highlight the squad weakness as Stuart can't be asked to play every minute. Let's hope the two new guys can deliver.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 19:12

Any words of wisdom from Stuart Hooper ? (Sm105)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 19:14

Quote:
Dorset Boy
Quote:
ballsout
Thankfully D'Arcy Rae the man who was loaned out to Treviso and London Scottish and Johannes Jonker the man who never makes the Ealing matchday 23 will improve our scrum next season. And when I say never, I keep an eye on Ealing team selections most weeks and I've literally never seen his name on them.
All coached by that Bath legend Mark Lilley...

Utter shambles.

That's a pretty nasty and unnecessary post about two players who haven't even joined the club, one what has had international caps.

Whatever good and fair points you make are ALWAYS undermined by your utter crassness in others. Just like when you slagged off the U18s very recently.

When did I ever slag off the U18s? I'd genuinely like an answer to that please.

I apologise re Rae and Jonker. I hope they prove me wrong, but I don't think they will.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 19:18

The truly sad thing is we genuinely have such a talented crop of young players coming through, Cordwell, Staddon, Reid, Bayliss, Ojomoh, Doughty, De Glanville, Merigan, Hamer-Webb, Spandler... but they're in the worst club in the league to develop in. What a waste. They deserve better.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 19:25

Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Any words of wisdom from Stuart Hooper ? (Sm105)

Probably best to just read his comments from last week. Don’t stress about it though the team will train well next week.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 20:43

Quote:
ballsout
The truly sad thing is we genuinely have such a talented crop of young players coming through, Cordwell, Staddon, Reid, Bayliss, Ojomoh, Doughty, De Glanville, Merigan, Hamer-Webb, Spandler... but they're in the worst club in the league to develop in. What a waste. They deserve better.

Well that's just pure unadulterated garbage BO. There is nothing wrong with the clubs ability to develop players. In fact how can you say that about Reid (who has been brilliant), Bayliss (Scotland international squad), De Glanville (senior england training squad). Then add Obano, Stuart, Redpath etc.

The club is not getting the results as a team - totally agree - but as individuals the basic numbers who develop through to internationals from academy level is better than most clubs. Certainly more than Worcester for example, or Newcastle.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 20:46

Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
Old Bath Tub
Any words of wisdom from Stuart Hooper ? (Sm105)

Probably best to just read his comments from last week. Don’t stress about it though the team will train well next week.

And he said “ We played the game too much in transition, which is where Harlequins are the strongest and because of that they scored 44 points against us . “ Really ? (Sm56)(Sm105)(Sm55)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
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Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 20:52

That's just an appalling quote. Maybe try 'we were appalling at restart and scrum - areas for which we have multiple specialist coaches - and it's not good enough'.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 21:02

Quote:
hasta
That's just an appalling quote. Maybe try 'we were appalling at restart and scrum - areas for which we have multiple specialist coaches - and it's not good enough'.
Exactly. I think it's one reason why Hooper seems to be most people's fall guy. I wish he'd talk plainly, not like some automaton. Why he keeps doing the post-match stuff to the exclusion of all others is odd when he's so bad at it. At the risk of repeating myself, I think he's getting too much of the criticism. He's culpable if he tells BC the coaching team, in terms of structure, numbers and personnel, is fine, otherwise I think he's being left to front up (badly) and carry the can. Personally I think the coaching and tactics are really poor and basic failings are continually being repeated.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 21:02

Quote:
BathMatt53
There is nothing wrong with the clubs ability to develop players.

I'm talking about taking the next step. ie. not becoming another Zach Mercer, Tom Ellis or Chris Cook.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 21:06

I cannot believe that Hooper talks like that to players. He needs to stop it with the media and fans.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 21:37

Well, its a bit doom and gloom but I watched the match with half an eye on another activity and with little expectation. I thought Bath players did ok - there were some spells of really creative effective stuff. Throwing away points with bad goal kicking is sooooooooo bally ridiculous.

Quins at home with their particularly partisan noisy crowd can't have helped.

I have given up commentng on Hooper et al. What is the point. No-one is listening, let alone Tarquin who is far too cosy with SH, doesn't have a clue about rugby. But its rather like the current government -all too cosy and watching each other's backs.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 21:42

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
BathMatt53
There is nothing wrong with the clubs ability to develop players.

I'm talking about taking the next step. ie. not becoming another Zach Mercer, Tom Ellis or Chris Cook.

Poor examples IMO*. Zach Mercer and Tom Ellis have both been involved with England camps. Mercer is now going off to play for a very lucrative contract. Cook played for Bath for years in (or around) the first team. For me all of those have been successful. Maybe they have reached their potential / natural levels? What will the natural levels of De Glanville, Reid be, who really knows.

Besides which for Cook you are talking over 10 years ago (he is 30). You can't compare the current development pathway with that 10 years ago (when it was really poor).

(*More worrying for me would be players like Max Green and Max Wright, and even Walker who was feted as the next big talent.)

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 21:49

Every week some core piece of the machinery develops a fault or emits an unfamiliar noise One week the lineout falls apart, the next week it’s the scrum. One week our pick and go is Tarzan, the next week it’s Jane.One week Spencer is Wigglesworth, the next week he’s Danny Care. One moment Faletau is Faletau the next minute he’s Teflon Toby.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 22:21

Quote:
Optimist
Every week some core piece of the machinery develops a fault or emits an unfamiliar noise One week the lineout falls apart, the next week it’s the scrum. One week our pick and go is Tarzan, the next week it’s Jane.One week Spencer is Wigglesworth, the next week he’s Danny Care. One moment Faletau is Faletau the next minute he’s Teflon Toby.

Completely agree with this.

Have any individuals been consistently poor- not really I don't think.

Have any key areas of the game been consistently poor- defence probably but scrum/lineout/ restarts/ maul/pick and go/ tactical kicking have all sometimes been great, sometimes been woeful.

I find it bizarre. Of course you are never going to get everything right every week but we literally lurch from crisis to crisis in differing facets of the game. Hatley has put his hand up and said its his fault. I tend to agree, his remit is overseeing coaching the first team. I think he needs more help personally, he has zero experience within that coaching structure. At least dave williams has over 10 years of coaching in at least 3 countries to bring to the party.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 22:45

Will Muir is Bath's player of the season both in attack and defence. There was one piece of fielding a catch then making yards by sublime trickery that was a delight to watch. Oh.... and he got another two tries!

https://i.ibb.co/YTDNDCdd/Tyler-Offiah-185.jpg

Tyler Offiah

Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:29:22:46:32 by shipwrecked.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2021 23:38

Quote:
shipwrecked
Will Muir is Bath's player of the season both in attack and defence. There was one piece of fielding a catch then making yards by sublime trickery that was a delight to watch. Oh.... and he got another two tries!

If it wasn’t for him this season we’d be in an even worse position which rather shows our limitations. Apart from McConnaghy no other back loooks likely to score a try.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 02:57

Just watched the game. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so in the end I'll settle for being angry. We could easily have won that match and we didn't and that's pretty much the story of the entire season. We butchered 4 tries in the first 20 minutes and that's just amateur hour. Are we serious about winning games? Cos it really, really doesn't look like we are to me. Really effing annoyed with that display.

MotM - Mojo, for that pass. The first of many, I hope.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:30:06:37:47 by joethefanatic.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 07:41

Quote:
joethefanatic
Just watched the game. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, so in the end I'll settle for being angry. We could easily have won that match and we didn't and that's pretty much the story of the entire season. We butchered 4 tries in the first 20 minutes and that's just amateur hour. Are we serious about winning games? Cos it really, really doesn't look like we are to me. Really effing annoyed with that display.
MotM - Mojo, for that pass. The first of many, I hope.

Agree, a fantastic lesson in how to not win games.....again!

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 09:30

Quote:
joethefanatic

MotM - Mojo, for that pass. The first of many, I hope.

Agree with that, excellent execution at pace, he has also shown he has an excellent running game in previous games and he is quick which made up for a couple of defensive issues. Hard to knock his defence though when there seems a confused defensive policy. We just seem to defend as 15 individuals rather than as a team.

The potential of Bailey, Mojo, TdG, McConnachie, Muir, Watson with Cipriani and Spencer inside them is enormous (Redpath when fit). Just seems that if that isn't unleashed soon i.e. next season we might miss an opportunity.

I don't blame Hooper, or Hatley, or the players but we are moving into 'team stagnation' phase. Thats my analysis where the team sink slowly into the quicksand of stagnation and can only escape with the use of outside help.

I just wonder who is going to throw then the rope and drive the 4x4 to tow them out!

https://i.ibb.co/YTDNDCdd/Tyler-Offiah-185.jpg

Tyler Offiah

Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 10:17

Well just watched that on BT Sport and we volunteered so much territory and points that if it wasn't so predictable you would think we were trying to throw the game.

Scrums poor, no confidence in the line-out to go for 5 metre efforts, restarts abysmal and we often run away from supporting runners.

There are positives in tempo and skill/pace in the backs but so depressing that we are a collection of good 5-10 minutes rather than a full team.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 10:29

The whackamole of what's going to misfire this week is so frustrating. Flippin' restarts! After years of rubbish, we'd finally improved them... Up until this game.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 10:40

Quote:
hasta
The whackamole of what's going to misfire this week is so frustrating. Flippin' restarts! After years of rubbish, we'd finally improved them... Up until this game.

Whackamole.... perfect description! As you say we fixed that glaring issue....back with a vengeance.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 10:59

I think I’d rather we aimed to be 6/10 for every aspect of the game than 2/10 for one thing (one week) and 9/10 for some other aspect (one week) and all change the week after. If you could knit together our best scrummaging, lineout, restart, running, defence etc from across the season we’d be European Champions. But every week our Achilles heel shifts.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 12:27

I don't always find myself nodding with Lawrence D but yesterday I listened to his appraisal of Bath and thought he has absolutely nailed it.

In essence he said:
1. Is it the coaching is substandard?
2. Are the players substandard?
3.The players are unable to understand what is being asked of them? Or
4. Are the players just not listening to the coaches?

Because something is clealry not right!

Whatever the issues as he said they are HUGE and on the basis of season and backed up by the Stats we are basically bottom of everything and as a club we should be worried. Yesterday was yet another example of our inadequacy to deal with a (no disrespect meant) mediocre team by that I mean Chiefs or Bears would have ripped that Quins performance apart. Our basic skills, defence and set piece once again fell apart.

To finish on a positive Max O looked to have great potential and Will Muir showed once again what a finisher he is. Ben Spencer was once again a live wire but he is clearly trying to overdo it - maybe a lack of faith in the team and backing up the issues highlighted above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:30:12:32:10 by Ali1969.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 13:35

Quote:
Ali1969
I don't always find myself nodding with Lawrence D but yesterday I listened to his appraisal of Bath and thought he has absolutely nailed it.
In essence he said:
1. Is it the coaching is substandard?
2. Are the players substandard?
3.The players are unable to understand what is being asked of them? Or
4. Are the players just not listening to the coaches?

Because something is clealry not right!

Whatever the issues as he said they are HUGE and on the basis of season and backed up by the Stats we are basically bottom of everything and as a club we should be worried. Yesterday was yet another example of our inadequacy to deal with a (no disrespect meant) mediocre team by that I mean Chiefs or Bears would have ripped that Quins performance apart. Our basic skills, defence and set piece once again fell apart.

To finish on a positive Max O looked to have great potential and Will Muir showed once again what a finisher he is. Ben Spencer was once again a live wire but he is clearly trying to overdo it - maybe a lack of faith in the team and backing up the issues highlighted above.

We can all ask similar questions but did he have an answers? If not, wouldn't see it as an analysis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:30:15:02:49 by Maeght.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 14:53

Quote:
shipwrecked
Will Muir is Bath's player of the season both in attack and defence. There was one piece of fielding a catch then making yards by sublime trickery that was a delight to watch. Oh.... and he got another two tries!

There was one time that tdg flung a very unsympathetic pass, will muir got tripped and managed to catch it one handed whilst falling over.

His skill levels are on a different level.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 15:04

One can only assume that the coaching programme is not consistent &!comprehensive. There cannot possibly be paying sufficient attention to detail & insistence that no one goes home until everything is rehearsed up to an acceptable standard. No stone should be left unturned to achieve this. That cannot possibly be the case at present. They always seem to be under rehearsed in various aspects of the game & you cannot play like that & win against properly rehearsed teams much of the time. I noticed at the end of the game Hateley was relaxed & smiling, not looking the slightest bit concerned at the performance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:05:30:15:08:28 by Bath Hammer.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 15:32

Quote:
Bath Hammer
I noticed at the end of the game Hateley was relaxed & smiling, not looking the slightest bit concerned at the performance.

I noticed he was not the only one , perhaps they were happy with performance and not the result ?

(Sm89)

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 16:10

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
Dorset Boy
Quote:
ballsout
Thankfully D'Arcy Rae the man who was loaned out to Treviso and London Scottish and Johannes Jonker the man who never makes the Ealing matchday 23 will improve our scrum next season. And when I say never, I keep an eye on Ealing team selections most weeks and I've literally never seen his name on them.
All coached by that Bath legend Mark Lilley...

Utter shambles.

That's a pretty nasty and unnecessary post about two players who haven't even joined the club, one what has had international caps.

Whatever good and fair points you make are ALWAYS undermined by your utter crassness in others. Just like when you slagged off the U18s very recently.

When did I ever slag off the U18s? I'd genuinely like an answer to that please.

Still waiting DB...?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 16:24

Quote:
Maeght
Quote:
Ali1969
I don't always find myself nodding with Lawrence D but yesterday I listened to his appraisal of Bath and thought he has absolutely nailed it.
In essence he said:
1. Is it the coaching is substandard?
2. Are the players substandard?
3.The players are unable to understand what is being asked of them? Or
4. Are the players just not listening to the coaches?

Because something is clealry not right!

Whatever the issues as he said they are HUGE and on the basis of season and backed up by the Stats we are basically bottom of everything and as a club we should be worried. Yesterday was yet another example of our inadequacy to deal with a (no disrespect meant) mediocre team by that I mean Chiefs or Bears would have ripped that Quins performance apart. Our basic skills, defence and set piece once again fell apart.

To finish on a positive Max O looked to have great potential and Will Muir showed once again what a finisher he is. Ben Spencer was once again a live wire but he is clearly trying to overdo it - maybe a lack of faith in the team and backing up the issues highlighted above.

We can all ask similar questions but did he have an answers? If not, wouldn't see it as an analysis.

No answers at all so just a series of questions that any one of us could come up with and probably 90% would agree with. So no analysis at all.
Most of the commentary on BT seems to be confirmation bias. We said that Quins would win so every thing they do is wonderful. Similar to the Leicester game when they were destined to beat Bath only they didn’t. That was very annoying until we won and then the commentary team
just looked and sounded silly especially if you watched the game knowing the result.
Yesterday according to the commentary M Smith was going to be the new messiah except he had a bit of a mare in parts his kicking from the tee was dire and he flew out of the line and missed tackles leaving great gaps down the centre which we managed to exploit several times. He is a very talented player but still has a lot to work on before he’s international class.
I wish we could get an option to watch the game with crowd noise the ref/ TMO link but NO commentary that would be bliss. Just like a live game.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 17:20

Tim Cocker, Eggchaser and BT pitchside interviewer, talks about how the presentation of sport is about telling stories and with it building anticipation/excitement, giving the matches and results added meaning. I get it.
I think the problem as a Bath fan is that our team are currently a big disappointment considering the players, facilities and history of the club, so that becomes the story.... When we start winning the story will change to “are Bath back?” as it has done on the occasions that we are around the top of the table and playing decent rugby.

Regarding the poor restarts in the first half yesterday, it was mentioned several times in the buildup and commentary that the sun was right in the Bath players easy for the kick off. Should a professional teams be able to deal with that? Probably, but it’s not easy. Restarts were much better in the second half.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: FourSticks (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 18:31

One way you could deal with the sun is to make it the other team's problem - does anyone know who won the toss? Given the advantage the sun was giving one would have hoped Bath lost it, rather than choosing to play into the sun first half.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 20:06

Quote:
FourSticks
One way you could deal with the sun is to make it the other team's problem - does anyone know who won the toss? Given the advantage the sun was giving one would have hoped Bath lost it, rather than choosing to play into the sun first half.
Quins won the toss and chose to play with the sun behind them to start.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Malco (IP Logged)
Date: 30/05/2021 20:43

Quote:
dcsh
Quote:
FourSticks
One way you could deal with the sun is to make it the other team's problem - does anyone know who won the toss? Given the advantage the sun was giving one would have hoped Bath lost it, rather than choosing to play into the sun first half.
Quins won the toss and chose to play with the sun behind them to start.
So why didn't we kick off?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 07:40

I think one of my main frustrations with the hoops regime is that it is dressed up as a long term project yet the decisions seem to be v v short term focused.

When everyone else was using restart to rest, rotate, take a look at the squad, give young guys a go he played guys into the ground to win the right via v good fortune to get pumped away at Exeter. Beat lots of second teams up and this season have realised that its not so easy when they put a first team out.

We are now throwing everything at top 8 for the right to get pumped by Europe's elite. Playing people leaving like Thomas and judge ahead of someone like verden (wouldn't have played him vs quins but been other opps), playing chudley ahead of fox every week, bailey doesn't even get on the pitch Saturday as another kick in the teeth, ojo only got a game when we were down to 12 against Irish after talking about introducing young guys in the perfect situations.

If the rhetoric is building something long term they need to actually look like they know what they are doing.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 08:38

Quote:
hasta
The whackamole of what's going to misfire this week is so frustrating. Flippin' restarts! After years of rubbish, we'd finally improved them... Up until this game.

And not just in receiving restarts. Apart from the first kick from the whistle Smith's high hanging ko's were always spot on, just outside the 22. RP's were usually too deep and not enough hang time for the chasers

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 10:02

Quote:
malco
Quote:
dcsh
Quote:
FourSticks
One way you could deal with the sun is to make it the other team's problem - does anyone know who won the toss? Given the advantage the sun was giving one would have hoped Bath lost it, rather than choosing to play into the sun first half.
Quins won the toss and chose to play with the sun behind them to start.
So why didn't we kick off?
Good question. The commentary team definitely said Quins chose the direction to play, however the kick off went straight into touch, so didn’t work out too bad for us.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 10:36

7 players from that match in Times Team of the week.

3 are Bath backs- Ojomoh, De Glanville and Muir.

PG

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: bathstigg (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 19:41

Quote:
P G Tips
7 players from that match in Times Team of the week.
3 are Bath backs- Ojomoh, De Glanville and Muir.

PG
Clearly its the coaching and strategy that's the problem. As there isn't much of a financial reward of being in Chsmpions cup the Challenge cup might well suit us particularly next season in terms of morale. If I was Bruce I'd burst the bank to sign Jalibert from Bordeaux as our Marquee 10 for 22/23 season but hey where's the ambition of the Roman city?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Malco (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 21:32

Quote:
bathstigg
Quote:
P G Tips
7 players from that match in Times Team of the week.
3 are Bath backs- Ojomoh, De Glanville and Muir.

PG
Clearly its the coaching and strategy that's the problem. As there isn't much of a financial reward of being in Chsmpions cup the Challenge cup might well suit us particularly next season in terms of morale. If I was Bruce I'd burst the bank to sign Jalibert from Bordeaux as our Marquee 10 for 22/23 season but hey where's the ambition of the Roman city?

This is not football.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 31/05/2021 22:58

Quote:
malco
Quote:
bathstigg
Quote:
P G Tips
7 players from that match in Times Team of the week.
3 are Bath backs- Ojomoh, De Glanville and Muir.

PG
Clearly its the coaching and strategy that's the problem. As there isn't much of a financial reward of being in Chsmpions cup the Challenge cup might well suit us particularly next season in terms of morale. If I was Bruce I'd burst the bank to sign Jalibert from Bordeaux as our Marquee 10 for 22/23 season but hey where's the ambition of the Roman city?

This is not football.

It increasingly is, sadly.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 10:53

Sponging money on a fly-half that we expect to transform our game (even if we could entice them from France) is 1000% not what we need right now. We need a game plan that makes best use of our squad and continuous improvement towards that.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: bathwickboy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 11:32

Not sure that I agree at all with people advocating our participation in the Challenge Cup rather than the Champions Cup. Surely you only improve if you are playing against the best players and they are largely to be found in the Champions Cup. What possible benefit could we have by sticking hundreds of points on a side from the far flung reaches of Eastern Europe? We are better off giving the best that we can against the best sides in Europe even if that means defeat.
Also from a fans point of view, the Champions cup games are all televised live by BT Sport whereas if memory serves me right, only the final stage matches of the Challenge cup are covered. I want to see us play not just read reports.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 12:00

Quote:
bathwickboy
Not sure that I agree at all with people advocating our participation in the Challenge Cup rather than the Champions Cup. Surely you only improve if you are playing against the best players and they are largely to be found in the Champions Cup. What possible benefit could we have by sticking hundreds of points on a side from the far flung reaches of Eastern Europe? We are better off giving the best that we can against the best sides in Europe even if that means defeat.
Also from a fans point of view, the Champions cup games are all televised live by BT Sport whereas if memory serves me right, only the final stage matches of the Challenge cup are covered. I want to see us play not just read reports.

The only advantages are the confidence that winning builds up, and the potential pot at the end.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 12:05

Quote:
Bath Blues
Who is the TMO?
Awful performance?

Stephen Jones in The Sunday Times agrees with you.
He devotes 4 paragraphs of his match report to forward passes.

A few quotes:

"It must also be said that the officials contributed to the feast of scoring, something which is absolutely not their responsibility. Rugby at professional level has got itself into a massive tizzy with the forward pass."

"Everybody knows what a forward pass is. We saw about six yesterday, none of which was brought back, and two helped Harlequins on their way to tries."

"When you clearly see that a ball has been propelled towards the opposition goalline, ..........and when a forward pass looks like a bloody forward pass, then it is a forward pass."

"The game should act so that officials are not put under pressure to make such silly and bogus calls."

Quins of course could have gained many more points had Smith's kicking been on target, but Jones highlights that they actually got at least 12 undeserved points. This is not an isolated incident and IMHO has got to ridiculous proportions.

PG

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 12:32

Quote:
bathwickboy
What possible benefit could we have by sticking hundreds of points on a side from the far flung reaches of Eastern Europe?

What possible benefit has THREE SEASONS without a Champions Cup game win (until Zebre recently) had on the squad?

The majority of Challenge Cup games will be against teams on a similar-ish level to us. Get some morale boosting wins under our belt and win a much, much, (much), needed trophy, then build from there. Far better than being pumped by 19 others teams far better than us.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 13:16

Quote:
bathwickboy
Not sure that I agree at all with people advocating our participation in the Challenge Cup rather than the Champions Cup. Surely you only improve if you are playing against the best players and they are largely to be found in the Champions Cup. What possible benefit could we have by sticking hundreds of points on a side from the far flung reaches of Eastern Europe? We are better off giving the best that we can against the best sides in Europe even if that means defeat.
Also from a fans point of view, the Champions cup games are all televised live by BT Sport whereas if memory serves me right, only the final stage matches of the Challenge cup are covered. I want to see us play not just read reports.

Bath would be in the lowest group of seeds and would get whacked IMO. I would like to see a season of consolidation, not too many huge distractions from the Premiership. Going against some weak teams in the preliminary rounds basically means a rest for the main squad so that's fine with me. Then play some bigger teams in the knockouts later in the season rather than being out by Christmas as usual.

Would be nice to visit some interesting places as well if we are allowed to travel by then - quite a few nice French venues.

Then, back into the Champions cup the year after off the back of a solid season of results (like Tigers model, but not playing like Tigers this season hopefully).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: bathwickboy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2021 16:16

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
bathwickboy
What possible benefit could we have by sticking hundreds of points on a side from the far flung reaches of Eastern Europe?

What possible benefit has THREE SEASONS without a Champions Cup game win (until Zebre recently) had on the squad?

The majority of Challenge Cup games will be against teams on a similar-ish level to us. Get some morale boosting wins under our belt and win a much, much, (much), needed trophy, then build from there. Far better than being pumped by 19 others teams far better than us.

Although I would not dispute that our results have been anything but disappointing, you write as if we get thumped out of sight in every game we play in Europe and that simply is not the case. We were heavily beaten 52-26 by Clermont Auvergne in 2019 and 50-27 defeat to Sarries in 2018 but I am struggling to think of many games where we were not competitive, and in some cases, but for a totally mind blowing lapse (Freddy v Toulouse) we may well have won.
As far as morale boosting is concerned do you think top flight rugby players after reflection would prefer to beat a side such as Bucharest 76-0 or be involved in a 14-12 defeat to a top side such as Toulouse or Montpellier? Where would you learn the most? Of course you could not pass real comment on a fictitious result such as Bucharest because it will not have been televised.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 08:52

Quote:
bathwickboy
Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
bathwickboy
What possible benefit could we have by sticking hundreds of points on a side from the far flung reaches of Eastern Europe?

What possible benefit has THREE SEASONS without a Champions Cup game win (until Zebre recently) had on the squad?

The majority of Challenge Cup games will be against teams on a similar-ish level to us. Get some morale boosting wins under our belt and win a much, much, (much), needed trophy, then build from there. Far better than being pumped by 19 others teams far better than us.

Although I would not dispute that our results have been anything but disappointing, you write as if we get thumped out of sight in every game we play in Europe and that simply is not the case. We were heavily beaten 52-26 by Clermont Auvergne in 2019 and 50-27 defeat to Sarries in 2018 but I am struggling to think of many games where we were not competitive, and in some cases, but for a totally mind blowing lapse (Freddy v Toulouse) we may well have won.
As far as morale boosting is concerned do you think top flight rugby players after reflection would prefer to beat a side such as Bucharest 76-0 or be involved in a 14-12 defeat to a top side such as Toulouse or Montpellier? Where would you learn the most? Of course you could not pass real comment on a fictitious result such as Bucharest because it will not have been televised.

It doesn't matter if we got thumped out of sight or lost a tight game, the reality is before Zebre we'd gone three years without winning a champions cup game. That's just appalling.

You also talk as if the Challenge Cup is full of Bucharasts, it's not. They weren't even in last season's competition!

Brive, Cardiff, Agen, London Irish, Ospreys, Castres, Stade, Bayonne... those are the kinds of teams that are a similar level to us. People need to stop deluding themselves we're a good team, we're not. Start small and build from there.

Oh and loads of Challenge Cup games are televised.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 10:06

A small point of order, the Zebre win was in the Challenge Cup, so our last win in the Champions Cup is still Jan 2019 when we beat Wasps. In the same season we draw our other match with Wasps, while losing to Leinster and Toulouse. We lost both Toulouse matches by a combined 5 points and only took a beating in one Leinster match, the other was 7 points.

The year after we were beaten convincingly by Clermont twice, but the other 4 loses were by an average of less than 5 points each.

And this year we lost by 4 points in the only actual Champions Cup match we played.

So there was plenty of potential to have multiple wins with only small improvements. On the whole these are not embarrassing loses and a surly the kind of matches that the team need to develop. Can Bath make those improvements is a different thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:02:10:38:15 by dcsh.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 10:21

Quote:
ballsout
People need to stop deluding themselves we're a good team, we're not. Start small and build from there.

Will you therefore start following your own advice then please.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 10:34

At the risk of being pedantic, I have spotted numerous incorrect spellings of the word 'lose'. Given the current state of Bath Rugby, its important to get it right.

Bath rugby managed to 'lose' the game, they have been 'losing' a lot recently. It is unclear what is the root cause, but perhaps their shorts were too 'loose'.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 11:11

Can't wait to see Auterac and Javan Sebastian awkwardly singing Flower of Scotland, alongside Oli Kebble, James Lang, WP Nel, and 5 or 6 others.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 11:24

Quote:
ballsout
Can't wait to see Auterac and Javan Sebastian awkwardly singing Flower of Scotland, alongside Oli Kebble, James Lang, WP Nel, and 5 or 6 others.

Wrong thread?

As James Lang was capped at U18 level by Scotland in 2013 I think that he would probably know the words by now. After 37 caps WP Nel probably has the words memorised too.

How many times do we need to repeat that Javan Sebastian's dad was born and raised in Scotland?

“My grandfather came over from Belize and my dad was born and raised in Edinburgh. I had a year with Glasgow Warriors in 2016, but never thought that I’d have the chance to play for Scotland. It is a massive honour and achievement for me and as my dad it is Scottish it is close to my heart."

I get the point about Oli Kebble, as Scottish as Nathan Hughes is English.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 11:36

Quote:
dcsh
A small point of order, the Zebre win was in the Challenge Cup, so our last win in the Champions Cup is still Jan 2019 when we beat Wasps. In the same season we draw our other match with Wasps, while losing to Leinster and Toulouse. We lost both Toulouse matches by a combined 5 points and only took a beating in one Leinster match, the other was 7 points.
The year after we were beaten convincingly by Clermont twice, but the other 4 loses were by an average of less than 5 points each.

And this year we lost by 4 points in the only actual Champions Cup match we played.


Seems our CC record is actually comparable to our domestic form. So many games that were winnable if only ....

So, back to a much earlier theme on another thread, are we just a top player or two in key positions away from the consistency to get us challenging at the top end?

I'd like to think so but it seems more like rainbow chasing than real possibility

So there was plenty of potential to have multiple wins with only small improvements. On the whole these are not embarrassing loses and a surly the kind of matches that the team need to develop. Can Bath make those improvements is a different thing.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 11:38

At the risk of creating a debate about nationalism, what does being scottish actually mean, similarly English, we just have a UK passport. I have a 'scottish' grandfather, well he grew up outside glasgow and he had a scottish accent. I guess i could have played for Scotland if I was any good, and if Jimmy Cranky gets her way and Scotland gets into the EU i could get an EU passport (assuming they follow the Irish model). I think the stuff that goes on here is broadly fine. NZ and the poorer south sea nations is more dodgy.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 14:34

Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
ballsout
Can't wait to see Auterac and Javan Sebastian awkwardly singing Flower of Scotland, alongside Oli Kebble, James Lang, WP Nel, and 5 or 6 others.

Wrong thread?

As James Lang was capped at U18 level by Scotland in 2013 I think that he would probably know the words by now. After 37 caps WP Nel probably has the words memorised too.

How many times do we need to repeat that Javan Sebastian's dad was born and raised in Scotland?

“My grandfather came over from Belize and my dad was born and raised in Edinburgh. I had a year with Glasgow Warriors in 2016, but never thought that I’d have the chance to play for Scotland. It is a massive honour and achievement for me and as my dad it is Scottish it is close to my heart."

I get the point about Oli Kebble, as Scottish as Nathan Hughes is English.

I'm aware that everyone in the Scotland squad has ties to Scotland. You kind of have to be named in a Test squad. My point is about the quantity of poaches and how tenuous some of them are.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 14:40

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
ballsout
Can't wait to see Auterac and Javan Sebastian awkwardly singing Flower of Scotland, alongside Oli Kebble, James Lang, WP Nel, and 5 or 6 others.

Wrong thread?

As James Lang was capped at U18 level by Scotland in 2013 I think that he would probably know the words by now. After 37 caps WP Nel probably has the words memorised too.

How many times do we need to repeat that Javan Sebastian's dad was born and raised in Scotland?

“My grandfather came over from Belize and my dad was born and raised in Edinburgh. I had a year with Glasgow Warriors in 2016, but never thought that I’d have the chance to play for Scotland. It is a massive honour and achievement for me and as my dad it is Scottish it is close to my heart."

I get the point about Oli Kebble, as Scottish as Nathan Hughes is English.

I'm aware that everyone in the Scotland squad has ties to Scotland. You kind of have to be named in a Test squad. My point is about the quantity of poaches and how tenuous some of them are.

Thanks for that. The point is that you keep naming Javan Sebastian and he has close ties to Scotland (i.e. parent rather than a grandparent). I'm with you on Oli Kebble.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 14:48

Im guessing a good chunk of the population have a parent, grandparent or 2 from another UK nation? Id be interested to know actually. 25%?

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 17:27

Quote:
ballsout
Can't wait to see Auterac and Javan Sebastian awkwardly singing Flower of Scotland, alongside Oli Kebble, James Lang, WP Nel, and 5 or 6 others.

'Flower of Scotland' is one of the best national anthems out there, I'd find it pretty easy to learn its a great tune!

https://i.ibb.co/YTDNDCdd/Tyler-Offiah-185.jpg

Tyler Offiah

Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 18:48

Quote:
woodpecker
At the risk of creating a debate about nationalism, what does being scottish actually mean, similarly English

For me, the argument is not even really about where you were born, where you currently reside or who your parents are. I just find it embarrassing that England feel the need to look beyond players who have been produced by our own national pathway system so regularly. That, combined with a desire to see the less affluent nations being given the chance to compete. I entirely respect players' rights to earn their living where they see fit - but I'd happily support a system where all international players were paid exactly the same amount from a pool, and watch a World Cup in which Fiji, Samoa and Tonga had a real chance of winning it.

I'm sure there are plenty of anomalies and conflicts in that view, but hey ho.

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2021 22:10

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
ballsout
Can't wait to see Auterac and Javan Sebastian awkwardly singing Flower of Scotland, alongside Oli Kebble, James Lang, WP Nel, and 5 or 6 others.

Wrong thread?

As James Lang was capped at U18 level by Scotland in 2013 I think that he would probably know the words by now. After 37 caps WP Nel probably has the words memorised too.

How many times do we need to repeat that Javan Sebastian's dad was born and raised in Scotland?

“My grandfather came over from Belize and my dad was born and raised in Edinburgh. I had a year with Glasgow Warriors in 2016, but never thought that I’d have the chance to play for Scotland. It is a massive honour and achievement for me and as my dad it is Scottish it is close to my heart."

I get the point about Oli Kebble, as Scottish as Nathan Hughes is English.

I'm aware that everyone in the Scotland squad has ties to Scotland. You kind of have to be named in a Test squad. My point is about the quantity of poaches and how tenuous some of them are.

Cough...Dave Hilton... cough?

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Re: CLASH OF STYLES. HARLEQUINS V BATH. TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2021 09:37

That's Dave McHilton to his mates, I'm told!

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