PREMIERSHIP PLAYOFFS

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:29:17:35:22 by P G Tips.

Excellent round up. I can't wait.

Great summary.
I suspect Exeter will be missing Kirsten, Skinner and Gray which may be significant. On the plus side Nowell may return.
Sale will miss Akker van de Merve and sadly McGinty.

Should be two cracking games!

For sure these four have set the standard.

I’d love Sale to win it overall, however I think Sale will play their big game in the semi final and then come up short in the final against Bristol. I really do hope I’m wrong though.

That’s the best round up and C0ML leader you’ve written PG. Excellent analysis!

No reason but I’ve A hunch that Sale could surprise a few.
Quins Bris is really close to call for me if Quins have any chance they must dominate up front, not sure they are strong enough though !


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

[www.bbc.co.uk] - Ewers Cited after Sale Yellow

Of those remaining I have to say that I would love Bristol or Quins to go on and win the final. Those are the two that I have enjoyed watching on the box the most this season.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I think with Chiefs and Sale taking lumps out of each other the winner of Bristol and Quins has a better chance than I would have thought a few weeks ago.

Additionally the French Top 14 playoffs continue on Friday 7:45pm La Rochelle vs Racing 92 and Saturday 7:45pm Toulouse vs Bordeaux Bègles, these can be viewed on FreeSport [www.freesports.tv] available on Freeview HD channel 64, Sky HD channel 422, Virgin HD 553, TalkTalk 64, BT Vision channel 64 and also available on the FreeSports Player

Chiefs task complicated by Ewers & Skinner bans:

[www.bbc.co.uk]

PG

Quote:

P G Tips
Chiefs task complicated by Ewers & Skinner bans:
[www.bbc.co.uk]

PG

Baxter is sailing against the tide on this. All teams just have to take it on the chin (no pun intended) and move on.

It looks like another Baxter moment to me with his comments. These players will be ex-players one day and will probably say the same things the ex-players are at the moment. What would Lippy have said during his career? Look at the way Moody played. Sometimes they have to be saved from themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:16:14:56:27 by cb2.

I agree with Baxter about the inconsistency of the issue of Red cards but IMO both of these definitely
Red.

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Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

This is going to sharply increase the value of very short players like Faf. If big forwards can't be confident they won't get sent off, it'll change the way they tackle.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
I agree with Baxter about the inconsistency of the issue of Red cards but IMO both of these definitely Red.

100%, he is just whining because its his two players at the start of the playoffs.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
I agree with Baxter about the inconsistency of the issue of Red cards but IMO both of these definitely Red.

100%, he is just whining because its his two players at the start of the playoffs.

Yep, didn't hear his loud protestations on the Beno and Dunn red cards.

You'd have to think that Sale would have won had Ewers been red carded as well, as the Citing Panel clearly thought. "No mitigation", they said. Karl Dickson's ears must be burning.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
I agree with Baxter about the inconsistency of the issue of Red cards but IMO both of these definitely Red.

100%, he is just whining because its his two players at the start of the playoffs.

Yep, didn't hear his loud protestations on the Beno and Dunn red cards.

You'd have to think that Sale would have won had Ewers been red carded as well, as the Citing Panel clearly thought. "No mitigation", they said. Karl Dickson's ears must be burning.

Was he the ref in the Exeter v Sale game?
How many more howlers / simply wrong decisions will he be allowed before he is demoted from the refs panel?

Baxter embarrassing himself with those comments, again. The ego in the entire Chiefs camp is really quite something.

Something weird going on in the water at Ex what with Slade, Hepburn, Baxter...

Well I'm hoping for a Sale/Quins final with Sale winning that match. Fingers crossed...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

hasta
Something weird going on in the water at Ex what with Slade, Hepburn, Baxter...

Been going on for a while.

And Hepburn's ignorant anti-lockdown rambling was nothing compared to Harry Williams' around the same time. Jack Nowell was part of that group too apparently.

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Well I'm hoping for a Sale/Quins final with Sale winning that match. Fingers crossed...

+1

Well it's not going to be Quins...

Maybe it will be quin's...

Quote:

shendy
Well it's not going to be Quins...

How sure are you?

PG

Nowhere near as sure as I was when I wrote it!
Crikey

Blimey!

What a crazy game! Bris just consistently unable to close a game out. Feels like it's Quins to lose now...

Only watched the last 20, but wow, what a comeback by Quins.
Can they do it in extra time?

Quote:

hasta
Bris just consistently unable to close a game out. Feels like it's Quins to lose now...

Hasta, surely you have that wrong? It's Bath who can't close a game out and Bath who end at 80 mins drawing after being 28 points up. Lam is the messiah.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Well! Who’d have thought it?

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Wow, simply wow!
Incredible from Quins.
Karma for Lam post the Tigers game.

Incredible result! What a shame for brizzle, oh well never mind!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:19:16:22:49 by CoochieCoo.

Don’t know why I’m finding it so hilarious. Well done Quins.

Quote:

Rawce
Don’t know why I’m finding it so hilarious. Well done Quins.

+2 !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

shendy
Well it's not going to be Quins...

Maybe your post was used in Quins’ halftime team talk Shendy?

PG

I know exactly why I find it so hilarious

This has been coming for weeks for Bris. Wonderful players, wonderful skills, wonderful spirit, absolutely moronic understanding of what it takes to win at the sharp end. Stubborn to the point of choking.

Congrats to Quins. I still think that without Smith they're losing that, but they've done the right thing in doing everything to keep him.

*Looks at their squad*
*Looks at ours*
*Looks at them sacking Gustard mid-season*
*Looks at our coaching set-up*
*Squints*

Unlucky Bristol! 😉

Is that some sort of payback? Have to say that Dombrandt's break from Tapuai's pass was fantastic then a class pass to finish it off.
Overall outstanding and that was a full Bristol side, Semi included.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

What price Sale doing the same I wonder?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

What a turn around. Well done Quins.

Foley just bottled the Tuilagi decision. Any other game this season that is red all day long.

Dunne got a red card for much less. Terrible decision from the ref

Think I saw a smile from Tuilagi when he walked off. Lucky boy!

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Well I'm hoping for a Sale/Quins final with Sale winning that match. Fingers crossed...

Half the job done, Sale making a decent fist of the first half...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

Rokobilly
Foley just bottled the Tuilagi decision. Any other game this season that is red all day long.

Totally, he didn’t want to show a red 6 mins into a semifinal, really poor to call it low given the player had been knocked out/concussed.

Two great semifinals, looking forward to the final.

Poor Bristol, just think how disappointed their fans must be tonight, not the life long fans they have had plenty of ups and downs over the years, I'm talking about the ones who didn't follow Bristol/Bears until they were winning! Lol.

What a great game of rugby. Congratulations to Quins for continuing to believe and continuing to play.

*struggles to contain gales of laughter*

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

There I was after the first half thinking how do ever we reach Bristol’s standard of attacking play where no mistakes are made, there is speed & fluency from ever player, never knocking on, never going into touch, never constantly slipping over just like we do! Well, that all changed in the second half & they did all that . So much is down to confidence. Will they continue on the same trajectory next season or will loss of players & other misfortunes befall them. I’m not wishing this upon them but that’s sport.

Quins are very impressive this year, they've been flying under the radar quite a bit!

Sadly I can only see a win for the covidiots next week, Quins will be emotionally spent after that. Happens all the time after a big semi final win.

I do hope that everyone noticed how Quins formed a back slapping tunnel of joy onto the pitch and Bristol didn't. From that moment onwards* they were doomed.

In all seriousness, what I wouldn't give to have Smith at Bath if I were in charge.

(*well OK they started like a train so it must not have dawned on them until half time that they didn't have the team spirit of Quins).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53
I do hope that everyone noticed how Quins formed a back slapping tunnel of joy onto the pitch and Bristol didn't. From that moment onwards* they were doomed.
In all seriousness, what I wouldn't give to have Smith at Bath if I were in charge.

(*well OK they started like a train so it must not have dawned on them until half time that they didn't have the team spirit of Quins).

They must have forgotten to sing their birdie song at half time!

I saw a very young and impressive Quins A team beat us a couple of years ago on a Monday night. They played heads up with a great appreciation of space and looked for gaps, not contact. I didn't see yesterday's game but if they have the same ethos today as their A team did that night I am not surprised they turned it around.

Slightly o/t but I'm not sure Ealing made a convincing rebuttal of the ring fencing argument in the past week...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

The BT Sport commentary team disagreed with you today Clarkey.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Slightly o/t but I'm not sure Ealing made a convincing rebuttal of the ring fencing argument in the past week...

Let Ealing play Worcester and then we will see.
Sarries will destroy much of the Premiership next year when they put out a full strength team.

Still virtually the same Sarries team that was relegated. Can’t imagine all the players have taken big pay cuts and all the big earners still at the club apart from Liam Williams so what’s changed!

Quote:

dcsh

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Slightly o/t but I'm not sure Ealing made a convincing rebuttal of the ring fencing argument in the past week...

Let Ealing play Worcester and then we will see.
Sarries will destroy much of the Premiership next year when they put out a full strength team.

I agree, Malins has developed really well at Bristol Ben Earl too. Add in Nick Tomkins that’s the old crew back in place mostly.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

It’s all a bit depressing being Bath & envisaging an even more demanding season with still some crucial gaps to fill! Oh well, let’s just enjoy taking part

Not worth losing sleep over BH!!

Quote:

hantssabre
Still virtually the same Sarries team that was relegated. Can’t imagine all the players have taken big pay cuts and all the big earners still at the club apart from Liam Williams so what’s changed!

Whilst this is what I suspect a lot of people would like to think, of course it isn't actually true. I'm no Sarries apologist by any means but the facts are what they are:

1) Sarries weren't actually that much over in the first place, it was the off field arrangements and loans to Ashton which were paid back which caused the issues.
2) By the start of next season quite a few players will have left. Williams, Kruis, Skelton, Barritt, Wigglesworth, Rhodes, Singleton, Figallo, Spencer are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. Their replacements were, on the whole, bargain basement.
3) the remaining ones presumably signed new contracts with pay cuts
4) there is the 25% cap loophole for those who did before the deadline.

The balance of course will be whether those players who have significantly increased in value (Earl, Malins etc) are happy to honour those contracts when people are knocking on their door.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

dcsh
Let Ealing play Worcester and then we will see.

I think that even Worcester would smash Ealing over 2 legs with their 2 existing teams. It wasn't a fluke that Worcester ran Sale, Exeter, Wasps and Bears close in matches this year. Ealing will have to change most of that team if they come up.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

hantssabre
Still virtually the same Sarries team that was relegated. Can’t imagine all the players have taken big pay cuts and all the big earners still at the club apart from Liam Williams so what’s changed!

Whilst this is what I suspect a lot of people would like to think, of course it isn't actually true. I'm no Sarries apologist by any means but the facts are what they are:

1) Sarries weren't actually that much over in the first place, it was the off field arrangements and loans to Ashton which were paid back which caused the issues.
2) By the start of next season quite a few players will have left. Williams, Kruis, Skelton, Barritt, Wigglesworth, Rhodes, Singleton, Figallo, Spencer are just the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. Their replacements were, on the whole, bargain basement.
3) the remaining ones presumably signed new contracts with pay cuts
4) there is the 25% cap loophole for those who did before the deadline.

The balance of course will be whether those players who have significantly increased in value (Earl, Malins etc) are happy to honour those contracts when people are knocking on their door.

Fair point Matt, for some though a few of those players will be seen as natural wastage but time will tell.
I have to say that if Bath had the opportunity to send Orlando Bailey and say Miles Reid to first team exposure and training with the likes of Piutau, Radradra, Lam etc I would view that as a huge bonus.

Malins has developed significantly in my view.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

dcsh
Let Ealing play Worcester and then we will see.

I think that even Worcester would smash Ealing over 2 legs with their 2 existing teams. It wasn't a fluke that Worcester ran Sale, Exeter, Wasps and Bears close in matches this year. Ealing will have to change most of that team if they come up.

Yes, I think you are probably correct. My point was that is the bar that Ealing need to reach, not beating the multi time Premiership and European Champions packed with Internationals and Lions!

Quote:

B4thB4ck
I saw a very young and impressive Quins A team beat us a couple of years ago on a Monday night. They played heads up with a great appreciation of space and looked for gaps, not contact. I didn't see yesterday's game but if they have the same ethos today as their A team did that night I am not surprised they turned it around.

One of the most enjoyable watching of a recording when knowing the score since seeing the cinema film of that famous 1966 footy match

Quins seemed to develop a massive self belief and impressive momentum. It was interesting to hear Evans interviewed at 28 - 0 talking about the ability of his team to score from anywhere and just needing to get that first score

But for me the big difference between Quins and us is at 8 and 10 where both Dombrandt and Smith put serious pace on the game either with ball in hand or in the angles they run to receive a pass.

When did either Faletau or Priestland play with that kind of energy and incision? Faletau is a class player but Mercer is closest we have had to a back row who can open up defences like Dombrandt. At 10 the job description for us seems to have been more around keeping it tight and playing to control the game - hopefully Cipriani's recruitment is signal of a change there

Quote:

gaz59
But for me the big difference between Quins and us is at 8 and 10 where both Dombrandt and Smith put serious pace on the game either with ball in hand or in the angles they run to receive a pass.

When did either Faletau or Priestland play with that kind of energy and incision? Faletau is a class player but Mercer is closest we have had to a back row who can open up defences like Dombrandt. At 10 the job description for us seems to have been more around keeping it tight and playing to control the game - hopefully Cipriani's recruitment is signal of a change there

Totally agree, great link up play, Dombrant's line off Tapuai's pass was excellent, Faletau and Priestland couldn't combine in that way.......... However, Cipriani and Bayliss could!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

gaz59
... Quins stuff ...

I think a big difference is they have got real value from their EQP Internationals this season. Ironically they've mainly done that by those Internationals not being involved with England anymore! Marler, Care and Brown have been huge for them over the season and a bit like Chiefs they have also benefitted from a lack of interest from Jones in some of their better players: Smith and Dombrandt.

The big question with them would be what happens if Smith gets called up which seems likely given he's significantly better than Umaga and Simmonds?

Quote:

BathMatt53
I think that even Worcester would smash Ealing over 2 legs with their 2 existing teams. It wasn't a fluke that Worcester ran Sale, Exeter, Wasps and Bears close in matches this year. Ealing will have to change most of that team if they come up.

My observation of the season in the Championship is that across the league the quality at set-piece is much higher than I expected. Our lineout got absolutely mugged in earlier games and yes we were missing some players but not so many that I would have expected it to be that bad. There are also no shortage of big strong forwards. The difference in quality in the backs is more significant as is the fitness of the squads which is to be expected.

However I'd say the biggest thing is actually the refereeing. The Championship is a very "physcial" league with referees who seem to mostly be learning as they go and no TMOs. There's an awful lot that goes on that would be yellow or red carded in the Premiership. To suddenly be refereed to Premiership standard is a very steep learning curve. I'm not sure how you improve that imbalance other than paying for better referees and actual TMOs for the Championship but I guess it comes back to money.

Quote:

P G Tips
The BT Sport commentary team disagreed with you today Clarkey.

Sunday was the exhibition match, they weren't saying that after the 0-60 hammering of Ealing the previous week...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

dcsh

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Slightly o/t but I'm not sure Ealing made a convincing rebuttal of the ring fencing argument in the past week...

Let Ealing play Worcester and then we will see.
Sarries will destroy much of the Premiership next year when they put out a full strength team.

Even having to adhere to a salary cap reduction ??

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Even having to adhere to a salary cap reduction ??

Yep. See above.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Even having to adhere to a salary cap reduction ??

The reduction is unlikely to impact most of the top teams (including Bath I'd suggest) as they tied up their contracts before the deadline so they can pay them the same amount and it will only be counted at 75% against the cap.

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Even having to adhere to a salary cap reduction ??

Yep. See above.

Ok Matt, got it thanks !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Really interesting hearing from Danny Care on this weeks RUW Podcast. They wanted Bristol beforehand as Bristol turn over the ball more than any other team in the league and they knew after that score just before half time that the comeback was on as their heads were up and they saw that Bristol had heads down and were trudging towards the tunnel. Very interesting stuff!

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I like Danny Care a lot but I find it hard to believe that Bristol heads were down going in 28-5 at half time.

Quote:

ballsout
I like Danny Care a lot but I find it hard to believe that Bristol heads were down going in 28-5 at half time.

I probably didn't explain it very well - have a listen its only a couple of minutes in.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Are Malins and Earl not better off away from Sarries? They need to start games and become big players for their club. They have the talent to make the next Lions tour.

Quote:

ballsout
I like Danny Care a lot but I find it hard to believe that Bristol heads were down going in 28-5 at half time.

I think several teams have shown at the end of the season that Bristol struggle against a decent pack and if you attack them their defence can be vulnerable. There was even a short lived thread on their site citing Semi Radradra as a weak defender. Don't agree with that but if you have a rigid disciplined defence it has to be harder to be to play a loose game that's pretty inevitable.

If island rugby had that sorted they would have won a World Cup by now with that array of talent.

Sheedy had a poor game and that is something he is prone to do, might be harsh but I think there are better 10's around. You would have to think Ioan Lloyd would be the way to go long term.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

ballsout
I like Danny Care a lot but I find it hard to believe that Bristol heads were down going in 28-5 at half time.

Watching on TV it was pretty evident that the quins players had a bounce about them going off probably geed up by a very upbeat noise from their fans and Bristol players looked far less happy

It might have been bristol just unhappy with themselves for conceding just before half time but there is no doubt that quins players would have seen that as "heads down" as Care says whether or not it was

All part of sport psychology and how you choose to see it

Quote:

cb2
Are Malins and Earl not better off away from Sarries? They need to start games and become big players for their club. They have the talent to make the next Lions tour.

They will both be starters next season for Saracens. Goode is 33 and both him and Malins can also play in other positions so will definitely get plenty of game time.

Earl was getting regular starts if I recall, and will be first choice 7 due to the players that have left.

Sarries were very clever by sending the players they did out on loan. The players they kept were good enough to get them promoted and have a year of first team rugbynow under their belt, whilst the loanees kept their development going in the Premiership whilst learning a lot about other clubs. Sarries are going to be a much stronger outfit next season and I wouldn’t bet against them winning it.

Quote:

BathMatt53
Really interesting hearing from Danny Care on this weeks RUW Podcast. They wanted Bristol beforehand as Bristol turn over the ball more than any other team in the league and they knew after that score just before half time that the comeback was on as their heads were up and they saw that Bristol had heads down and were trudging towards the tunnel. Very interesting stuff!

I'll give that a listen it sounds interesting.

The psychology of the game is a fascinating subject and I wonder whether its one that receives enough attention? I remember at the time thinking that for a team who had dominated and built such a healthy lead Bristol looked flat trudging off the field. It was a set back but at that stage not a major one and yet when both teams cam back out Quins seemed invigorated and Bristol knocked out of their stride.

I guess that Quins have scored more than 30 so often this season that it didn't seem like a mountain to climb like it would for say, Bath.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Awp - I hope so. Is Daly now looked at as a centre?

Quins looking good!

Simmonds (who else?) starts the fight-back

All square again at TW2, for a moment, then Ex take lead, for 1st time

Brilliant game

What a superb game. Massive credit must go to both teams. 1 minute to go!

QUINS WIN!

11 tries, end-to-end stuff!!

YEEESSSS!!! Well done Quins, I couldn't be happier for them! Positive rugby (OK not if you are a defensive coach) wins in the end!

Please let this be the end of DORs thinking that the only way you can win anything is with bash crash grinding rugby.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

We are so far behind these two teams in skill and passion and probably more to the point coaching. We should not be with the players we have in the side.

Quote:

PORTLAND@
We are so far behind these two teams in skill and passion and probably more to the point coaching. We should not be with the players we have in the side.

Quins don't even have a 'proper' coaching team do they? Maybe that's the point, they have played what is in front of them since January.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Well done Quins, bold decision to get rid of a failing DOR mid season and good to see them reap the rewards. I wonder...

Well done Quinn’s. There’s no real logic to it but I’m now very much in the ‘anyone but Chiefs’ camp. Regardless if that it was a brilliant game of open rugby. Not one for the defensive purists mind.

Wonderful game and great advert for the game of rugby.

Well done Quins. Goodness, I wish I supported them tonight. What a joyous occasion!

Delighted quin's won. I think every pundit gave them no chance going into the playoffs. Apparently you can't win things playing and defending the way they do. Well it turns out that you can. Added to that it is a lot of fun too!

Wow. Absolutely fair play Quins, a phenomenal effort.

Has there ever been a better club rugby decision than firing Gustard and retaining Smith?

Brilliant game and a real advert for heads up rugby. Play what is in front of you is the way to go for entertainment and as Quins have shown in their Brizzle game and the final how to win.

I'm still pretty sure that 'how to win' in this case means 'have Marcus Smith at 10'.

Not seen the game, but congratulations Quins!
Attacking rugby wins the day again - has to be really good for the game and fans of the game.

Quote:

Dorset Boy
Not seen the game, but congratulations Quins!

Do whatever you can to see it. Comfortably one of the best games of rugby I've watched in the professional club era.

Extraordinary game, how did Joe Marler do 100 mins last week then another 80 and still keep making tackles. Dombrandt, Smith, Care all excellent but Louis Lynagh at 20 scoring two tries and the dark horses of the two games for me were Tyronne Green and Jack Kenningham.

Probably the best game of club rugby I've watched!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Major bonus to Quins Brown getting banned? Tyrone Green superb at 15.

Louis Lynagh's line for that late try was superb.

Delighted Exeter lost. Absolutely delighted.

What a fantastic game of rugby and congratulations to both sides on playing so well.

But...

Delighted Quins won. Absolutely delighted.



... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:27:06:02:07 by joethefanatic.

So, those who reckon you need some elaborate 5 year plus plan to develop a winning squad might be surprised at the advance of Quinns. It might be a bit of a one off win but maybe not & it wasn’t devised on a drawing board with a huge team of experience coaches. It was a great achievement & gives a boost to the rest of the Premiership. Also, Exeter’s anti vaccine stance & bubble mentality makes me even more pleased they were turned over!

Great effort by quins, amazing turnaround in their fortunes.

Personally think it is built on sand somewhat/ good fortune but may well be proven completely wrong and it is in fact the start of something. Certainly have a crop of impressive young players. Their head coach / dor appointment will be fascinating! I wouldn’t put loads of money on them being top 4 next season but if their props and half backs stay fit and on form again then they have a good chance.

Nice to see a new name after the exeter/sarries dominance but hats off to baxter- thought he was absolutely class after the game.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:27:08:18:10 by charlieboa.

Whenever Exeter lose, Baxter always, without fails, sneaks in a comment about how good his team is or how many trophies they've won in the past. Good to see that trend continue yesterday.

Quote:

"We came into the game with the best defence in the league and we didn’t show that today.

Quote:

ballsout
Whenever Exeter lose, Baxter always, without fails, sneaks in a comment about how good his team is or how many trophies they've won in the past. Good to see that trend continue yesterday.

Quote:

"We came into the game with the best defence in the league and we didn’t show that today.

He's not wrong, your continued snide comments about Exeter are almost as boring and repetitive as your comments on the club I think you support?

Staggering to slate him for that comment when he has shown such humility and good grace in defeat

For once I think BO is factually correct in his comment and his interpretation of Baxter’s comment is as valid as any other.
As to whether the Quins change of management has been effective. For them so far yes it has.
But would this work for Bath who knows? it would not only depend on who replaced the encumbants. The recipe for success in one club is rarely transferable to another as there are so many other factors involved. Currently the club is trying something more akin to the Exeter model in that they are allowing the time that Baxter had to get a stable winning team.. will it work? Again who knows.
I think you have to find your own plan rather than try to mimic some other teams route. Highly
successful managers parachuted in can bomb completely especially if not given time and what works with one group of players may not come off with another. ( e.g. singing a team song cannot be enforced it has to happen empirically from within and if it doesn’t there is nothing to be done but find another way of team bonding )

Quote:

Widcombe Boy

Quote:

ballsout
Whenever Exeter lose, Baxter always, without fails, sneaks in a comment about how good his team is or how many trophies they've won in the past. Good to see that trend continue yesterday.

Quote:

"We came into the game with the best defence in the league and we didn’t show that today.

He's not wrong, your continued snide comments about Exeter are almost as boring and repetitive as your comments on the club I think you support?

Of course he said all the right things, it would be churlish not to. However, it is also true that he slots in praise for what he & his team have achieved on each such occasion. You could say that it is to maintain their positivity but it also slightly deflates the congratulation given. In other words, they only won because we didn’t play at the superlative level we usually do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:27:09:54:15 by Bath Hammer.

The quote from yesterday was pretty tame compared to what he usually does. It's usually "We're double champions for a reason" after a loss or stuff like that.

And yes, obviously he's going to show good grace after defeat, all DORs would. I'm just getting bored of the Baxter love-in, when his actual words monologues that go on forever, tell a different story if you look closer.

The whole club is very easy to dislike, be it their brand of anti-rugby, their covidiots, or their ego the size of a planet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:27:10:01:59 by ballsout.

Also their racist branding and refusal to engage with the issue.

Slightly perplexed by the 'anti Exeter' sentiment being so vociferous, similar to the 'anti Saracens' approach. Is it simply rampant jealousy because they have had repeated success?

I'm not an Exeter supporter and I was pleased Quins won but if they do so for the next 3 years will they be next?

I'd like to see us focus on the rugby. Are these comments necessary?

Quins success does put pressure on Hooper now though, to go from losing 30-3 to Exeter to winning the Premiership simply by changing the coaching set up shows it can be done.

No Radradra type signings at Quins to change the picture either, I see similarities with Bath in their players, perhaps Cipriani will be our Nick Evans.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I think Quins were in a unique position, they had a very established and very vocal group of senior players and ex player coaches, combined with a crop of young talent at key positions. Who would that senior group be at Bath?

Quote:

by
I think Quins were in a unique position, they had a very established and very vocal group of senior players and ex player coaches, combined with a crop of young talent at key positions. Who would that senior group be at Bath?

I totally agree that every team is unique.
after all if they weren’t it would be easy to appoint the same type of manager and play the same style of rugby - then bingo instant success for everyone and all the teams would win the league. Clearly this is nonsense it’s what makes you different that can make you better or worse. If all teams were the same it would be boring right?

Well done Quins, a real victory for Rugby IMHO and a break from the Sarries/Chiefs grind opposition into submission and bore the crowd.

How refreshing to see a team willing to attack, built however on a World class LHP and Solid front 5 with big 8 willing to play not just look for contact. Very Southern Hemisphere and I for one loved it.

and

A 10 who has been given the confidence and authority to run a game without adhering to a strict game plan - great job Nick Evans.

Cannot for the life of.me understand Baxter leaving a player such as Hogg on the bench - maybe the love.affair has split and a move is on the card Great game of rugby. IMHO.

Quote:

TG Kesmo

Quote:

by
I think Quins were in a unique position, they had a very established and very vocal group of senior players and ex player coaches, combined with a crop of young talent at key positions. Who would that senior group be at Bath?

I totally agree that every team is unique.
after all if they weren’t it would be easy to appoint the same type of manager and play the same style of rugby - then bingo instant success for everyone and all the teams would win the league. Clearly this is nonsense it’s what makes you different that can make you better or worse. If all teams were the same it would be boring right?

Thats the point though isn't it, its about having the right management and appointments, Bristol have done it, Sale have done it, Quins have done it, I'd love it to be us next we have the players.

We have the same academy talent as Quins as far as I can see the only recent addition has been André Esterhuizen, the facts are that Ben Tapuai now has a winners medal, does that mean he is better than JJ?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Also surprised by anti-Exeter and believe it is just sour grapes because of our decades long run of mediocrity. I think Nick Evans has always been underrated both as a player and coach. Never like Quins, don't know why, always seemed too have a chippy edge, personified by Brown, but at least that means they care and it was a great performance and a great game - also well done the referee.

Hasta, is Exeter branding really racist or is it just growing up watching too many cowboy films (that still seem to be played and watched today without any racist warnings)

Bit bemused by the comments above. Too many sour grapes, unpleasant unnecessary comments frankly. Suppose you are all embittered that it wasn't Bath at the final?????


It was a fantastic game of rugby by two good teams. Entertaining, skilled and a fight to the end to come out the winners.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Slightly perplexed by the 'anti Exeter' sentiment being so vociferous, similar to the 'anti Saracens' approach. Is it simply rampant jealousy because they have had repeated success?
I'm not an Exeter supporter and I was pleased Quins won but if they do so for the next 3 years will they be next?

I'd like to see us focus on the rugby. Are these comments necessary?

.

100% agree SW

Quins play great rugby and don't have a squad who think covid isn't a big deal or think they're god's gift to rugby, so no, unlikely that they'd be 'next'.

Quote:

ballsout
Quins play great rugby and don't have a squad who think covid isn't a big deal or think they're god's gift to rugby, so no, unlikely that they'd be 'next'.

Thank goodness Scott Balwin's Lion taming isn't used as a criteria for damnation!




Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

warrenball
Hasta, is Exeter branding really racist or is it just growing up watching too many cowboy films (that still seem to be played and watched today without any racist warnings)

Yes. It probably started that way, but it's fully unacceptable now.

[www.whatcanwedo.world]

[twitter.com]

Also, worth being aware what's going on in Canada at the moment: [www.theguardian.com]

I am not anti-Exeter Shipwrecked but I do think that professional sportsmen have a duty to behave in a certain way & set a good example. From the comments reported as having been uttered by various of their players & possibly their DOR regarding COVID & vaccines they don’t appear to be adhering to that. They may feel that they are protected in their bubble & regularly tested but getting the highest number of people vaccinated is crucial to getting us out of this horrific situation & protecting many livelihoods. It is far more important than the fortunes of one rugby club & its players.

I agree BH on the Covid statements made by some of the Exeter players were clear disinformation and as such potentially dangerous and Rob Baxter might have made a few muddled statements.
What I don’t really understand is the sentiment that connects yesterday’s loss as some sort of punishment for their stupidity.

I also think that rugby players have a responsibility to be accurate and truthful in relation to comments about issues in the public domain.

It’s the connection between the rugby being played and those views that should be separate. That’s not always easy to do though I accept.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

warrenball
Also surprised by anti-Exeter and believe it is just sour grapes because of our decades long run of mediocrity. I think Nick Evans has always been underrated both as a player and coach. Never like Quins, don't know why, always seemed too have a chippy edge, personified by Brown, but at least that means they care and it was a great performance and a great game - also well done the referee.
Hasta, is Exeter branding really racist or is it just growing up watching too many cowboy films (that still seem to be played and watched today without any racist warnings)

Main issue I have with the Chiefs is that the large majority of their support have never experienced anything but success and that makes a visit to Sandy park a pretty depressing experience, more akin to being part of a football crowd. Couple that with the hugely annoying Red Indian chanting and there becomes a lot to dislike at a live game. However that doesn’t take anything from the team that Rowe and Baxter have built. Surely time for Baxter to have a crack at the England job to give us all a boost and take some wind out of Exeter’s sails.

Quote:

ballsout
Whenever Exeter lose, Baxter always, without fails, sneaks in a comment about how good his team is or how many trophies they've won in the past. Good to see that trend continue yesterday.

Quote:

"We came into the game with the best defence in the league and we didn’t show that today.

It's easy to quote selectively ballsout.
I have just watched the recording of the entire interview in which Baxter credited and congratulated Quins several times.


"The whole club is very easy to dislike," So you say. It's obvious to me that you were seeking something in Baxter's interview to be nasty about.
Quite unnecessary.

PG

Of course a DOR is going to congratulate the opposition on become Premiership champions. I put my opinion on the man on a rugby message board designed for OPINIONS. You might have found it unnecessary, I didn't. And it seems others saw my point too.

Quote:

ballsout
The whole club is very easy to dislike, be it their brand of anti-rugby, their covidiots, or their ego the size of a planet.

I'm not trying to be sarky but do you even like rugby ballsout? You seem so relentlessly negative both about both your own club and others. Are there teams and players you enjoy watching?

Interestingly on the forum now they're discussing the lack of a supporters song for Bears ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:27:16:50:44 by HappySaracen.

Personally I thought that Baxter was pretty magnanimous in defeat. SW I'm only not a fan of Exeter because I don't like the way that they play (kick, grind, flop) but not sure what that says about Bath who more recently have tried to copy them only without the execution (kick, grind, knock on / turned over). I have loved watching Bristol and Quins play this year, as I did Bath in 2015 hence my delight that it actually came off...

After HappySaracens note I had a look at the Quins forum on songs and have to say I did like this:

To the tune of My Old Man’s a Dustman.

Marcus Smith is magic
He wears a magic hat
He got a call from Bruce Craig
But didn’t fancy that.
He passes to the left, and he passes to the right.
And when we win the Premiership, we’ll sing this song all night ...

Let's face it, even if it was easy to sing a song about Bath (which is isn't) most of the fans in the ground are too busy being miserable about almost everything that it wouldn't actually be sung. When I took my 12 year old to the Rec - when going to rugby was actually a thing - even he commented on why it was so quiet all the time.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I have nothing at all against Sarries or Chiefs. I do believe as a professional sport we have a duty to entertain and the playing style.of both clubs is simply suffocate and grind down opposition which is very productive and successful and very England of the past and iy would seem the present.

I am an old fashion rugby player and supporter who wants everything successful and panache. I think of us in our hey day, like Quins we could hold our own up front but the whole point of the game was to get the likes.of Guscott running.

Chiefs and Sarries have some fantastic players and supporters but I cannot help but think a but like the All Black's we win but it is the way I which we win. Like Insaid old fashion but that's why I am so happy Quins won.

Still cannot understand the Stuart Hogg on the bench business?

Quote:

BathMatt53
Personally I thought that Baxter was pretty magnanimous in defeat. SW I'm only not a fan of Exeter because I don't like the way that they play (kick, grind, flop) but not sure what that says about Bath who more recently have tried to copy them only without the execution (kick, grind, knock on / turned over). I have loved watching Bristol and Quins play this year, as I did Bath in 2015 hence my delight that it actually came off...
After HappySaracens note I had a look at the Quins forum on songs and have to say I did like this:

To the tune of My Old Man’s a Dustman.

Marcus Smith is magic
He wears a magic hat
He got a call from Bruce Craig
But didn’t fancy that.
He passes to the left, and he passes to the right.
And when we win the Premiership, we’ll sing this song all night ...

Let's face it, even if it was easy to sing a song about Bath (which is isn't) most of the fans in the ground are too busy being miserable about almost everything that it wouldn't actually be sung. When I took my 12 year old to the Rec - when going to rugby was actually a thing - even he commented on why it was so quiet all the time.

Matt, I'm not a fan either to be honest, I just was a bit surprised by the glee with which their defeat was greeted. As a club I'd have liked them to develop their game in the backs more much as Sarries did prior to their fall from grace.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Agreed SW- they certainly have the players for it, as their 4th try showed. It would be good to see more.

They have actually scored many fluent backline tries this season, but the lingering perception is their relentless pick & drive play.

As for being unlikeable - I don't agree with some of their unwise comments on Covid and I can understand why their badging is regarded as poor taste/racist, but that does not change the fact that they play good winning rugby. I would rather watch them than many other Prem teams.

PG

Can I add my name to those who are saddened by the Anti-Chiefs sentiments expressed by some above. I have been a Bath FC supporter since the 1970s, but live a little closer to Exeter, and so occasionally go to Sandy Park, and enjoy myself.
Yesterday I was supporting Exeter, but also enjoyed the sparkling rugby of the 'Quins. We are all rugby fans, and maybe uncover our other eye sometimes?
Here's to next season

I think that it is a real shame that certain comments have degraded this thread from celebrating a great game of rugby played with great spirit and excitement and could have gone either way until the final whistle. Well done both teams for the entertainment.

It seems that some people on ‘ere are hell bent on finding fault and in doing do so make a mountain out of a molehill because of a personal vendetta. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion but sometimes that opinion can get tedious when oft repeated.

Quote:

CoochieCoo
I think that it is a real shame that certain comments have degraded this thread from celebrating a great game of rugby played with great spirit and excitement and could have gone either way until the final whistle. Well done both teams for the entertainment.
It seems that some people on ‘ere are hell bent on finding fault and in doing do so make a mountain out of a molehill because of a personal vendetta. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion but sometimes that opinion can get tedious when oft repeated.

Yes because you never ridicule or make fun of other clubs yourself...

Quote:

ballsout

Quote:

CoochieCoo
I think that it is a real shame that certain comments have degraded this thread from celebrating a great game of rugby played with great spirit and excitement and could have gone either way until the final whistle. Well done both teams for the entertainment.
It seems that some people on ‘ere are hell bent on finding fault and in doing do so make a mountain out of a molehill because of a personal vendetta. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion but sometimes that opinion can get tedious when oft repeated.

Yes because you never ridicule or make fun of other clubs yourself...

So this embitterment of other teams is just a bit of fun. Is that why you have to post ‘ere because Exeter and others have banned you?

I post here because Bath are my team. A simple concept I would have thought.

Keep being hypocritical, it's amusing. The latest: criticising people for criticising other clubs, whilst having spent the better part of a decade ridiculing Bristol.

I am delighted Bath is your team. However this is a thread about the Playoffs and I as a Bath supporter celebrate a great final of rugby which doesn’t need embellishment.

Quins play rugby exactly as it should be played. Hard and fast. They weren’t just chucking it around Barbarians style. Properly physical, but always putting pace on the game. Wonderful game.

Quote:

Optimist
Quins play rugby exactly as it should be played. Hard and fast. They weren’t just chucking it around Barbarians style. Properly physical, but always putting pace on the game. Wonderful game.

Absolutely. This game and last weeks Bristol semi were as good a pair of domestic games as I can remember. Be interesting to see iif Quinn’s can keep this up next year and when Marcus Smith gets his England chance in an important game.

Quote:

Beergoggles

Quote:

Optimist
Quins play rugby exactly as it should be played. Hard and fast. They weren’t just chucking it around Barbarians style. Properly physical, but always putting pace on the game. Wonderful game.

Absolutely. This game and last weeks Bristol semi were as good a pair of domestic games as I can remember. Be interesting to see iif Quinn’s can keep this up next year and when Marcus Smith gets his England chance in an important game.

Eddie is not going to pick Marcus Smith for more than one game. And he'll be dropped no matter how well he plays. He's this generation's Danny Cipriani, sad to say. But its a huge plus for Quins.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:28:02:37:33 by joethefanatic.

I agree Joe that Eddie may well find some obscure fault in Smith that noboby else in rugby is clever enough to have detected. But it's still - IMO - the case, that George Ford is as good as Smith and could do pretty much everything he does in attack/tactical kicking/place-kicking, but is constrained by Eddie's game-plan and the presence of Farrell at 12. The same would apply to Smith, so what's the point in picking him.

Having said that, Smith does get actively stuck into defending better than Ford.

Smith also breaks the line, something Ford used to do but seems no longer part of his game!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I really enjoyed what Austin said after the final whistle when he described Quins as playing the sort of rugby you were taught to play when you were 10 or 12 years old. Of course, it's built on some almighty forwards, such as Marler and Louw, and a brick of a 12, but the overriding sense of searching for space and "if they score 4, we'll score 5" is great to watch, especially as a neutral and brings back the feeling of watching Bath in the 80s/90s, being one of, great, we've got the ball, anything can happen. Thankfully, Quins proved George Ford's "ticking time bomb" quote to be false.

One of the reasons I love the Gallagher Premiership, especially in its current form where the breakdown and scrum seem reasonably well refereed, is that there is such a wide variety of styles. Quins have proven that by being true to themselves and to their squad (not the biggest pack but quick back row, inventive halfbacks, young quick almost-naively ambitious outside backs) and aiming for the attacking end of the spectrum you can win titles. I wonder whether more teams will follow their lead next year? Or will teams actually note that it's the "true to yourself" part that really matters and become even more forward orientated e.g. Leicester.

We played like Quins in 20-minute spells for the second half of the season. Interesting to see how we move into next season with a more attacking 10. One thing I would like is to see a style, whatever it may be that is true to us and our squad of players. We see press releases talking a bit about the "Bath way" or somesuch. I'd love to see whatever that is and for us to go after it and develop it, win, lose or draw.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Smith also breaks the line, something Ford used to do but seems no longer part of his game!

Think I agree with this. Ford has spent too long in the shackles of Jones and Tigers. The 'free spirit' in him to try something off plan would take a lot of time and opportunity to be rediscovered

Quote:

shipwrecked
Smith also breaks the line, something Ford used to do but seems no longer part of his game!

Yes I was going to say SW, Smith is Ford c2015 when he was young and just played what came naturally.

[edit: beaten to it by Gaz!]

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:28:10:04:19 by BathMatt53.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
One of the reasons I love the Gallagher Premiership, especially in its current form where the breakdown and scrum seem reasonably well refereed, is that there is such a wide variety of styles.

I did think that the final was very well reffed actually. Well done Matthew Carley.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Just a few thoughts :

I am glad that Quins and Bristol are showing a creditable opposite to the Sarries/Chiefs style of rugby - I can see Sale doing similar albeit their game is still very much power based but with AJ McGinty they have that spark and a very good backline which they are not afraid to use.

Sarries and Chiefs play a very similar style of rugby which is built around the primary goal of defence and power with an excellent kick chase and they use pressure to suffocate the opposition - which IMHO is a real shame when you consider the sheer talent both sides have in their backline.

It would seem since South Africa bullied England in the World Cup final that Eddie is also going down the same route which is understandable given the success that both Sarries and Chiefs have attained - Again a real shame when you have such talent available.

It is interesting that the French philosophy has changed in recent years and is once again reverting to stylish attacking rugby led once again by the powerhouses of Toulouse and Racing, like Quins & Bristol they can hold their own up front but the aim is to unleash their backlines.

Bath FC have to stop searching for someone else to find the answer to their style - that is something that comes from the coaches and players trusting, knowing and listening to each other - you cannot sit there and say "I think we will play like Chiefs or Sarries" because that is just not how it works. IMHO we need to firstly decide what kind of 10 we need because that will decide the way we play then build the team around them - no point in having world beaters in the back three and just kick the ball away or stick it up your jumper - alternatively no point in having a running 10 and just have crash ball experts in the back line.

The one thing all these sides mentioned above have is a 10 who is a permanent fixture and compliments the way they want to play - we have since Ford left to me been a side in constant turmoil "betwixt and between" and my god it shows.

Simple in theory - not in practice. Should have added - Interesting both Bristol and Quins both have Southern Hemisphere DoR's - perhaps coincidence or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:28:10:41:49 by Ali1969.

Glad to see Bristol getting a bit of credit here too. It's also great that the 'players of the season' aren't just going to be fly-halves who kick lots of goals. Joe Marler and John Afoa have been the proverbial cornerstones. Good to see 80-minute shifts coming back into fashion too.

If England don't keep pace with the entertainment factor that is being provided by big Gallagher Prem matches at the moment, people might wonder what is the point of shelling out £100+ for Twickenham days.

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

dr.bath1865
One of the reasons I love the Gallagher Premiership, especially in its current form where the breakdown and scrum seem reasonably well refereed, is that there is such a wide variety of styles.

I did think that the final was very well reffed actually. Well done Matthew Carley.

Have to (grudgingly) concur with this. When I turned it on I was like 'How on EARTH has Carley got this game?' but he did a decent job.

me too, i was shocked to see him, but he's massively improved.

If you had to pick an England team to replay the World Cup final in 2 weeks' time, who would you choose right now?

Marler, LCD, Sinckler
Itoje, Hill
Curry, Dombrant, Underhill
Care, Smith
Devoto, Slade
Marchant, Malins, Watson

Vunipola, Dunn, Stuart
Lawes, Simmonds
Youngs, Ford, Daly

Quote:

Optimist
If you had to pick an England team to replay the World Cup final in 2 weeks' time, who would you choose right now?
Marler, LCD, Sinckler
Itoje, Hill
Curry, Dombrant, Underhill
Care, Smith
Devoto, Slade
Marchant, Malins, Watson

Vunipola, Dunn, Stuart
Lawes, Simmonds
Youngs, Ford, Daly

Is Sinckler going to get knocked out again in the 3rd minute?

Marchant has looked absolute class last couple of weeks.

Earl would be unlucky to not be close to that team, probably ahead of Underhill IMO.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:28:16:34:18 by BathMatt53.

[quote shipwrecked][quote BathMatt53]

After HappySaracens note I had a look at the Quins forum on songs and have to say I did like this:

To the tune of My Old Man’s a Dustman.

Marcus Smith is magic
He wears a magic hat
He got a call from Bruce Craig
But didn’t fancy that.
He passes to the left, and he passes to the right.
And when we win the Premiership, we’ll sing this song all night ...

.[/quote]

Now here's a suggestion...

Danny Cips is magic
He wears a magic hat
He got a call from Bruce Craig
And really fancied that.
He passes to the left, and he passes to the right.
And when we win the Premiership, we’ll sing this song all night ...

Quins won't mind...they already have Manfred Mann's classic

Quote:

shendy
Well it's not going to be Quins...

This one hasn't aged well.

Quote:

Stoopendous

Quote:

shendy
Well it's not going to be Quins...

This one hasn't aged well.

Shendy is Saints supporter - all the Bath fans had no doubts at all that Quins would come back from all those points down vs Bristol and end up lifting the trophy!

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I mean.

Trolling through an opposition (who weren't close to being involved) board's 150+ message playoff thread to find a post made half an hour into a semi-final where you were 28-0 down and bringing it up rather than just enjoying your remarkable premiership win is quite the worst waste of time and energy. Jesus Christ, smell the roses.

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

dr.bath1865
One of the reasons I love the Gallagher Premiership, especially in its current form where the breakdown and scrum seem reasonably well refereed, is that there is such a wide variety of styles.

I did think that the final was very well reffed actually. Well done Matthew Carley.

I think the key was his willingness to yellow card Hil and give a penalty try within first 5 minutes. The players didn't dare take any liberties after that. Even the Exe board haven't criticised him (much)

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic

I think the key was his willingness to yellow card Hil and give a penalty try within first 5 minutes. The players didn't dare take any liberties after that. Even the Exe board haven't criticised him (much)

Such a good point Joe.
“Laissez faire” refereeing to encourage an open game is a fallacy.
Clamp down early on negative play and the players get the message - then the game opens up.

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Yup agree. Also carding Marcus Smith even though the try was scored was good reffing - otherwise the double jeopardy of the Pen Try seems very unbalanced.

Quote:

hasta
I mean.
Trolling through an opposition (who weren't close to being involved) board's 150+ message playoff thread to find a post made half an hour into a semi-final where you were 28-0 down and bringing it up rather than just enjoying your remarkable premiership win is quite the worst waste of time and energy. Jesus Christ, smell the roses.

Quite.
Let's be honest, at 28-0 down inside the first half, even the most ardent Quins fan would have been very brave to put any money on them to win.

And I notice that Stooperman chose not to mention the posts from 30-40 mins later, which clearly acknowledged that the accuracy of my post was already in trouble.
PG Tips: How sure are you?
Me: Nowhere near as sure as I was when I wrote it! Crikey

Quote:

joethefanatic
I think the key was his willingness to yellow card Hil and give a penalty try within first 5 minutes. The players didn't dare take any liberties after that. Even the Exe board haven't criticised him (much)

That's a great point and one I hadn't really thought about but he set his stall out really early and I think both teams perhaps tried "it" on less than they might otherwise have done.

Quote:

joethefanatic
Also carding Marcus Smith even though the try was scored was good reffing - otherwise the double jeopardy of the Pen Try seems very unbalanced

Interestingly in one of the after match analysis pieces they suggested that normally you wouldn't card Smith in that situation as the try had been scored. Think how often a team under a warning commits a cynical offence on their line but nothing happens when the try is scored. It's basically pretty much all the time.
In contrast Hill (and Simmonds) stopped a try being scored by entering the side of the maul an offence which is carded in addition to the PT if the culprit can be identified.
Having said that I agree with you and the referee which shows the importance of their discretion. I may be wrong but I think they were on a team warning too which would kind of strengthen the case even if you might not normally give one.

Quote:

HappySaracen

Quote:

joethefanatic
I think the key was his willingness to yellow card Hil and give a penalty try within first 5 minutes. The players didn't dare take any liberties after that. Even the Exe board haven't criticised him (much)

That's a great point and one I hadn't really thought about but he set his stall out really early and I think both teams perhaps tried "it" on less than they might otherwise have done.

Quote:

joethefanatic
Also carding Marcus Smith even though the try was scored was good reffing - otherwise the double jeopardy of the Pen Try seems very unbalanced

Very kind of you, HS but the Marcus Smith comment was from Hasta

Interestingly in one of the after match analysis pieces they suggested that normally you wouldn't card Smith in that situation as the try had been scored. Think how often a team under a warning commits a cynical offence on their line but nothing happens when the try is scored. It's basically pretty much all the time.
In contrast Hill (and Simmonds) stopped a try being scored by entering the side of the maul an offence which is carded in addition to the PT if the culprit can be identified.
Having said that I agree with you and the referee which shows the importance of their discretion. I may be wrong but I think they were on a team warning too which would kind of strengthen the case even if you might not normally give one.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

JTF
Interestingly in one of the after match analysis pieces they suggested that normally you wouldn't card Smith in that situation as the try had been scored.

Which highlights a massive problem in refereeing, such cards directly affect the scores, the fact that they are given purely as a whim of the individual referee needs addressing.

I'd also like to see cards or a penalty for things like high tackles or dangerous tackles in the act of scoring. Such as a penalty from the kick off. Rarely awarded and very often the offender gets away with it simply because an awarded try is deemed appropriate punishment.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

I'm not sure what's going on here but there are informed and accurate comments being posted under my moniker which aren't by me. I have my reputation to think of, you know!

Post post edit - I've worked out that it was all my fault. The accurate and informed comments were from hasta, HS and SW. The ignorance of how to post quotes properly was entirely mine.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:06:30:07:48:44 by joethefanatic.