INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Ojomoh: bright spark
By PG Tips
September 28 2021
Bath will go into a bear pit when they visit Ashton gate on Friday evening. Both sides will be desperate for their first win of the season. Bears, without even a bonus point, are bottom of the table after ending last season in pole position.
They will know though that they have torn Bath to shreds in their past two home derbies. Bath meanwhile have looked under powered and vulnerable in both their early season outings. Will their attacking endeavour only bait the bear and provoke the inevitable mauling?Bristol’s free-flowing, high-scoring style has been built on firm foundations. Their pack, large, aggressive and physical, has been too strong for Bath in set piece and open play for the past three seasons. Hughes, on form is a brutal ball carrier, Thacker an elusive one and Attwood in tight and loose has frequently reminded Bath of their folly in letting him go. With Thomas and Luatua great poachers of lineout ball and marauders on attack they will expect to have the edge up front. Even without Sinckler and the departed Earl, their eight make Ashton Gate no place for the faint hearted.
That the Bears failed to produce their customary dominance against Saracens is no great surprise. Nor will it comfort Bath that Wasps exposed them last weekend. That just served notice to Pat Lam that he will need to fire bears up to produce their inner grizzly and come out roaring and clawing in front of 27,000 baying fans at the bearpit of Ashton Gate. Even without Charles Piutau, the injured Malins and (possibly) Semi Radradra, Bears have backs of sufficient guile and pace to humiliate their visitors with even parity of possession. Especially if livewire scrum half Randall is fit to start.
For all the talk of positive intent and fluent attack, Bath have underperformed in both fixtures to date. The ambition has certainly been evident, and there have been flashes of inspired back play, but all built on shaky foundations. A weak set piece, providing back-foot ball is no basis for the type of game Bath aspire to play. The result is lateral passing movement, easily contained and vulnerable to aggressive press defence. For all the pretty patterns, it is penetration that matters. That has been sadly lacking.
Some personnel reinforcement could improve Bath’s chances. If Stuart or McNally are fit, they will be needed to shore up the scrum and provide much needed go-forward in the carry. Surely, Jaco Coetzee must start to give some early balance and heft to the back row and stabilise a retreating scrummage? Danny Cipriani’s experience would be welcome too at ten -although Orlando Bailey has looked confident and comfortable there in Cipriani’s absence.
Stuart Hooper and Charlie Ewels have been commendably frank about the team’s failings in the past two weeks, but that is only the start. They must now address them and turn them round. In the words of the great Colin Meads they must stop “believing in fairy tales”. That starts with defence, passive in both first halves this season and far too simply breached. Basic discipline is essential too- at set piece and breakdown. Without a solid set piece and quick ball from the breakdown, it is naïve to rely on miracles from Max Ojomoh (Bath’s one bright spark last Saturday) as an attack strategy.
These Bristol Bears will be bears with sore heads. They will have the power, the speed, the fury. Will Bath find the bloody-minded determination, the wit and, above all the leadership to beat them? We wait with baited breath to find out.
Possible Teams.
Bath Rugby: Obano, Dunn, Jonker, Ewels, Williams, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee. Fox, Cipriani. Rokodoguni, Ojomoh, Joseph, Muir. De Glanville.
Replacements: Schoeman, Du Toit, Rae, Ellis, Bayliss. Green, Bailey, Clarke.
Bristol: Y Thomas, Thacker, Lahiff, Attwood, Vui, Luatua (Capt), D Thomas, Hughes. Randall, Sheedy. Lloyd, O'Conor, Leiua, Adeolokun. C Piutau
Replacements: Capon, Woolmore, Armstrong, Holmes, Heenan, Uren, Bedlow, Purdy.
INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
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Date: 28/09/2021 10:31
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:12:16:59:44 by P G Tips.
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Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 11:07
Anyone know when McNally will be fit? Bath have missed his presence on the pitch not only to stabilise the scrum but in leadership and defensive roles.
I’ve not seen Spencer (W) play in years so don’t know what he would bring as well as stability in the scrum.
I’ve not seen Spencer (W) play in years so don’t know what he would bring as well as stability in the scrum.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 11:28
Quote:TG Kesmo
Anyone know when McNally will be fit? Bath have missed his presence on the pitch not only to stabilise the scrum but in leadership and defensive roles.
I’ve not seen Spencer (W) play in years so don’t know what he would bring as well as stability in the scrum.
On a podcast McNally said he was targeting round 3. So it is this game or the next assuming training/rehab has gone to schedule.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 11:41
Aha finally its on the telly!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 11:46
Will Stuart and Danny C were reported last week as being available for this one which would be ideal if that turns out to be the case.
It was good to see Cameron Redpath on the pitch warming up / stretching with the rest of the team on Saturday. Hopefully not a million miles away either.
Personally I would start Green at 9 for this one. I suspect that they will start Randall if he is fit, Uren wasn't great last weekend.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
It was good to see Cameron Redpath on the pitch warming up / stretching with the rest of the team on Saturday. Hopefully not a million miles away either.
Personally I would start Green at 9 for this one. I suspect that they will start Randall if he is fit, Uren wasn't great last weekend.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 12:17
Is this the latest on Ben Spencer?
[www.bathrugby.com]
Bath Rugby can confirm Joe Cokanasiga and Ben Spencer have suffered injuries which will see them sidelined for a period, but neither require surgery.
[www.bathrugby.com]
Bath Rugby can confirm Joe Cokanasiga and Ben Spencer have suffered injuries which will see them sidelined for a period, but neither require surgery.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 12:22
Quote:He was interviewed on the pitch at half time, I think he said several weeks for recovery. He was walking awkwardly without crutches, but that could just have been the very skinny jeans!woodpecker
Is this the latest on Ben Spencer?
[www.bathrugby.com]
Bath Rugby can confirm Joe Cokanasiga and Ben Spencer have suffered injuries which will see them sidelined for a period, but neither require surgery.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 13:19
Quote:Grumpy_Uncle _IrohQuote:TG Kesmo
Anyone know when McNally will be fit? Bath have missed his presence on the pitch not only to stabilise the scrum but in leadership and defensive roles.
I’ve not seen Spencer (W) play in years so don’t know what he would bring as well as stability in the scrum.
On a podcast McNally said he was targeting round 3. So it is this game or the next assuming training/rehab has gone to schedule.
Thanks we certainly need him and we’re. Always better when he was on the pitch last season
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 14:36
Quote:TG KesmoQuote:Grumpy_Uncle _IrohQuote:TG Kesmo
Anyone know when McNally will be fit? Bath have missed his presence on the pitch not only to stabilise the scrum but in leadership and defensive roles.
I’ve not seen Spencer (W) play in years so don’t know what he would bring as well as stability in the scrum.
On a podcast McNally said he was targeting round 3. So it is this game or the next assuming training/rehab has gone to schedule.
Thanks we certainly need him and we’re. Always better when he was on the pitch last season
And with a great side step to show our backs how its done!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 15:18
Saw the Wasps v Briz score and a few doom-laden posts on the Bears message board and was vaguely heartened, but having seen the highlights of that game seemed quite a few Wasps points came from breakaways/interceptions and the score flattered Wasps. Bristol's pack looked strong and sadly I can't see us getting within 10 points of them at Ashton Gate.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 15:33
Is Will Spencer ever going to be fit? I am starting to think he is actually allergic to Bath Rugby - both Warriors and Tigers appeared to get a lot more game time than we ever have and now it appears to have gone really quiet about his return to fitness just when we need him more than ever.
It seems at present presuming McNally is fit our predicament is actually worse than first reported with only 2 recognised second rows in our ranks.
It seems at present presuming McNally is fit our predicament is actually worse than first reported with only 2 recognised second rows in our ranks.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 15:39
Pressurise Sheedy and they're much less threatening. They just shovel it to Semi or Charles and hope that they'll come up with magic. Their pack wasn't up to much.
Big ask, but we can win it if we believe. Gonna have to be much better than last week...!
Big ask, but we can win it if we believe. Gonna have to be much better than last week...!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 18:14
I can't see us winning this one. Problem is, I can't see us winning against Salaries or Quins, either. But its not obvious what can be done. Sacking the coaches probably won't help in the short run and we can't magic up 2 second rows (at least until after the RC finishes), Cips is broken in a very predictable (and repeatable) way and our one really top class 9, who singlehandedly ran our game last year, is out for the foreseeable. It's not looking good.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:28:19:57:43 by joethefanatic.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:28:19:57:43 by joethefanatic.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 18:29
Hoops sounds hopeful stuart, mcnally, underhill, rmc....and possibly cips will be available.
So the squad on paper will probably be stronger, zero confidence that will necessarily translate to a better performance though.
Half wondered if faletau was earmarked for this week. Had 5 weeks off and then back in training 2-3 weeks now. Imagine we want to get a run of games from him before he disappears. Hasn't exactly put loads of miles on the clock over the last 4 years
So the squad on paper will probably be stronger, zero confidence that will necessarily translate to a better performance though.
Half wondered if faletau was earmarked for this week. Had 5 weeks off and then back in training 2-3 weeks now. Imagine we want to get a run of games from him before he disappears. Hasn't exactly put loads of miles on the clock over the last 4 years
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 18:53
Quote:woodpecker
Aha finally its on the telly!
After being at the game on Saturday I can’t think of any reason to watch the game on tv this week.
Seems unlikely Bath could possibly play as bad as last Saturday, but as Bath still have no coherent game plan a win seems out of the question.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: 9215 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/09/2021 19:31
If we can get Stuart and McNally back our scrum should improve a lot
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 04:55
After such a totally dismal outing last Saturday when they should have been brimful of freshness & optimism it is impossible for me to raise any enthusiasm for this or any forthcoming games. The one bright spot is a small group of very young talented players who are doing their absolute best to wear the Bath shirt with pride. Overall the preparatory work done in the close season though is entirely absent.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 08:48
Quote:TomReagan
Saw the Wasps v Briz score and a few doom-laden posts on the Bears message board and was vaguely heartened, but having seen the highlights of that game seemed quite a few Wasps points came from breakaways/interceptions and the score flattered Wasps. Bristol's pack looked strong and sadly I can't see us getting within 10 points of them at Ashton Gate.
The Wasps performance was a lot like what we were really hoping to see from the BBW if only in patches given the positivity from the pre-season videos. Are injuries really the primary factor in the failure to translate training ground performance into competitive game play?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 09:00
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:woodpecker
Aha finally its on the telly!
After being at the game on Saturday I can’t think of any reason to watch the game on tv this week.
Seems unlikely Bath could possibly play as bad as last Saturday, but as Bath still have no coherent game plan a win seems out of the question.
As its free and I dont have to go all the way there its fine and I can always turn it off.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 09:12
Quote:woodpeckerQuote:OutsideBathQuote:woodpecker
Aha finally its on the telly!
After being at the game on Saturday I can’t think of any reason to watch the game on tv this week.
Seems unlikely Bath could possibly play as bad as last Saturday, but as Bath still have no coherent game plan a win seems out of the question.
As its free and I dont have to go all the way there its fine and I can always turn it off.
I reckon you’ll last 10 minutes at most.
I tried to ignore my pre conceived ideas on Hooper and his coaching setup before the game last week and went with optimism of seeing a new Bath.
10 minutes in I realised that nothing has changed and we continue to go backwards under his leadership.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 14:53
Pre conceived ideas OB that is your problem.
If you can’t think of a single reason to watch on Friday then either try -to see if we can play any better than last week…or maybe just don’t bother but if you don’t watch don’t criticise what you haven’t seen.
If you can’t think of a single reason to watch on Friday then either try -to see if we can play any better than last week…or maybe just don’t bother but if you don’t watch don’t criticise what you haven’t seen.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 20:22
Quote:TG Kesmo
Pre conceived ideas OB that is your problem.
If you can’t think of a single reason to watch on Friday then either try -to see if we can play any better than last week…or maybe just don’t bother but if you don’t watch don’t criticise what you haven’t seen.
Don’t we all have pre conceived ideas and opinions on all sorts of things in life? What usually occurs though is something happens to change your mind on that pre conception.
In Hooper’s case I believe my fears have been proven correct.
As for Friday I’m absolutely certain we will play better as it’s not possible to be worse, however the opponents are stronger this week.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 21:11
To be fair to OB, who has made it very public what he thinks of Hooper for a long while, I’m beginning to get the nagging sense he may be being proven right! I came into this season willing to give the new setup a chance but, some bad luck with selection aside, we’ve been awful. Yes, it’s only been two games but even my rose tinted specs cant see where our first win is coming from.
The big concern for me is that, following a full pre season, huge issues look to be arising in recruitment, conditioning, game plan etc. Sure, mid season, fixing these areas is tough. Changing a coach is disruptive. Bringing in players takes time etc. But over a settled pre season they can be looked at over weeks/months so you should come into a season on a firm footing. The fact we’ve started the season looking so clueless and callow makes me doubt whether the guys running the rugby side of the club know what they’re doing.
I’d absolutely love to be proven wrong. A win on Friday would be the ultimate way to do it but, on what I’ve seen this season and the squad/injuries we have, I can’t see it. I’m an optimist and I continue to always think the team on paper will exceed my expectations on the pitch but I get the feeling that the team on paper (without Underhill, Faletau, Spencer, Cip, Redpath etc) coupled with the coaches, just isn’t good enough.
The big concern for me is that, following a full pre season, huge issues look to be arising in recruitment, conditioning, game plan etc. Sure, mid season, fixing these areas is tough. Changing a coach is disruptive. Bringing in players takes time etc. But over a settled pre season they can be looked at over weeks/months so you should come into a season on a firm footing. The fact we’ve started the season looking so clueless and callow makes me doubt whether the guys running the rugby side of the club know what they’re doing.
I’d absolutely love to be proven wrong. A win on Friday would be the ultimate way to do it but, on what I’ve seen this season and the squad/injuries we have, I can’t see it. I’m an optimist and I continue to always think the team on paper will exceed my expectations on the pitch but I get the feeling that the team on paper (without Underhill, Faletau, Spencer, Cip, Redpath etc) coupled with the coaches, just isn’t good enough.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2021 23:00
Maybe we should do a reverse Quins and appoint Paul Gustard.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 00:18
I imagine that quite a few of us who have placed our confidence in Hooper & never expected overnight success are finding their patience is wearing thin. What might be causing more aggravation is that whilst we considered that our squad was pretty strong & would eventually come good we don’t feel that is now the case & our recruitment has been pretty lacklustre with weaknesses appearing particularly in the forwards. Furthermore, I get the impression that the coaches are disturbingly relaxed about the situation.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:00:25:24 by Bath Hammer.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:00:25:24 by Bath Hammer.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 00:53
I've never been convinced by Hooper, nor felt that the squad was strong enough to be a top of the table side for quite a few years now. Hooper has never shown me anything to make me have any confidence in him being able to deliver success overnight or long term.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: A (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 07:09
"I have in my hand a piece of paper signed by Mr Hooper....in which he promises attacking running rugby, and trophies in our time" it seems some of you would believe that guff, while others would base their views on the real evidence of his time in charge.
A win at Ashton Gate would be good, but increasingly thinking a monster loss, followed by the same against Sarries and Quins might be the better long term option. Are we now targeting boxing day for the fist league win of the season?
A win at Ashton Gate would be good, but increasingly thinking a monster loss, followed by the same against Sarries and Quins might be the better long term option. Are we now targeting boxing day for the fist league win of the season?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 08:40
This board seems to be very lacklustre, there doesn't even seem to be much robust discussion any more, is this because we were all very concerned about the new inexperienced coaching staff when appointed, but were willing to give them a chance, however nothing has improved, the owner has either got great patience or is happy to run a mid table club and we all fear we are facing many long months/years without clear idea where we are heading? The opposite of love is not hate, it is often disinterest and that seems to be where a lot of Bath supporters are heading unless things start to change very quickly. What a shame there is no relegation.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 08:51
Quote:warrenball
This board seems to be very lacklustre, there doesn't even seem to be much robust discussion any more, is this because we were all very concerned about the new inexperienced coaching staff when appointed, but were willing to give them a chance, however nothing has improved, the owner has either got great patience or is happy to run a mid table club and we all fear we are facing many long months/years without clear idea where we are heading? The opposite of love is not hate, it is often disinterest and that seems to be where a lot of Bath supporters are heading unless things start to change very quickly. What a shame there is no relegation.
Spot on Warrenball. Not angry, just disappointed. Off the back of drab England performances and a tedious Lions tour I think that people are just realising that there is better entertainment around than Professional Rugby union at the moment, particularly when you support Bath and England that is.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:09:26:39 by BathMatt53.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 09:07
Precisely my thinking. An apathy. When we knock on, I shrug and look at the nice view of Johnstone St. When we are 19-3 or 20-3 down at half time, I think, yep that’s about right. When we bravely fight back in the second half, I sigh, well, I suppose that’s something (when in fact it achieves very little).
I actually really enjoy the Prem at the moment and the quality of rugby. There is lots to admire in the attack of some great young teams and players. I think the laws are in a good place (scrum better, breakdown not perfect but ok) and the league is, for the most part, clearly reffed by refs who I like. So I’d happily pay to watch 9 or 10 of the teams, either live or on telly. Sadly, the team I support is fast becoming not one of them.
Having said that, the team (if most are fit) on paper is still, IMHO, one of the best in the league. The Williams/Cipriani scoreboard/style “thing” deserves more time. We’ve a bunch of great young players coming through. Aaaaand Bristol are off form…
The optimist is still in there somewhere and I’ll be tuning in on Friday in hope. Bath are a cruel mistress.
I actually really enjoy the Prem at the moment and the quality of rugby. There is lots to admire in the attack of some great young teams and players. I think the laws are in a good place (scrum better, breakdown not perfect but ok) and the league is, for the most part, clearly reffed by refs who I like. So I’d happily pay to watch 9 or 10 of the teams, either live or on telly. Sadly, the team I support is fast becoming not one of them.
Having said that, the team (if most are fit) on paper is still, IMHO, one of the best in the league. The Williams/Cipriani scoreboard/style “thing” deserves more time. We’ve a bunch of great young players coming through. Aaaaand Bristol are off form…
The optimist is still in there somewhere and I’ll be tuning in on Friday in hope. Bath are a cruel mistress.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Deckchair (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 09:18
Somewhere and sometime the Bath viscous downward spiral needs to be broken. Poor coaches produce failed game plans for uninspired, disconnected players who under-perform and deliver lackluster, negative, kick rugby with poor entertainment value for money and time spent for a fast dwindling and rapidly disengaging supporter-base.
The first home game of the season at the Rec in over 18months and the ground wasn't even full. And so quiet. Add to this the improving rugby, performance (and entertainment) of the other bottom table teams (Worcester, Irish, Leicester etc) and our trend and descent is even more acute. If it continues in this way Bath will be playing Championship rugby in 2023.
Bruce has to act, and it might as well be now as Christmas or next year. Perhaps he already is laying the foundations and making connections. It has to start with a new DoR. Hooper has failed and gives no reason to suppose he can hope to change the situation. Time to bring in a more experienced, dynamic and hungry replacement.
Whether Bruce can find the right replacement, or knows it when he sees it, is another point. We could have recruited Borthwick, we got Hooper.
But if Bath is to progress, even survive, Hooper needs to go. And soon.
The first home game of the season at the Rec in over 18months and the ground wasn't even full. And so quiet. Add to this the improving rugby, performance (and entertainment) of the other bottom table teams (Worcester, Irish, Leicester etc) and our trend and descent is even more acute. If it continues in this way Bath will be playing Championship rugby in 2023.
Bruce has to act, and it might as well be now as Christmas or next year. Perhaps he already is laying the foundations and making connections. It has to start with a new DoR. Hooper has failed and gives no reason to suppose he can hope to change the situation. Time to bring in a more experienced, dynamic and hungry replacement.
Whether Bruce can find the right replacement, or knows it when he sees it, is another point. We could have recruited Borthwick, we got Hooper.
But if Bath is to progress, even survive, Hooper needs to go. And soon.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 09:25
Duplicate post
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:09:26:23 by BathMatt53.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:09:26:23 by BathMatt53.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 09:27
It’d be interesting to chart Bath’s league position versus activity on these ere boards.
Personally, I only really like to post and engage actively in discussions when things are good or, at least, promising. Maybe that makes me a “glory supporter”, but, as in general life, I much prefer to discuss good news with people who similarly like to discuss good news.
I know some posters (many of whom are banned) prefer to fixate on the downside, but I think warren is right that it feels as if the team, the club, the fans are in a right slump at the moment, and I wonder if that’s reflected in the traffic numbers, the Brexit thread aside! Lol.
Personally, I only really like to post and engage actively in discussions when things are good or, at least, promising. Maybe that makes me a “glory supporter”, but, as in general life, I much prefer to discuss good news with people who similarly like to discuss good news.
I know some posters (many of whom are banned) prefer to fixate on the downside, but I think warren is right that it feels as if the team, the club, the fans are in a right slump at the moment, and I wonder if that’s reflected in the traffic numbers, the Brexit thread aside! Lol.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 09:48
Quote:warrenball
This board seems to be very lacklustre, there doesn't even seem to be much robust discussion any more, is this because we were all very concerned about the new inexperienced coaching staff when appointed, but were willing to give them a chance, however nothing has improved, the owner has either got great patience or is happy to run a mid table club and we all fear we are facing many long months/years without clear idea where we are heading? The opposite of love is not hate, it is often disinterest and that seems to be where a lot of Bath supporters are heading unless things start to change very quickly. What a shame there is no relegation.
This is spot on, I will be delighted if we win on Friday but largely don’t care that much if we lose. Once upon a time I was almost a fanatical supporter and went to every game, now I’ll probably only check the result for this week’s game on Saturday morning.
I was excited to be at the Rec again last Saturday, but mid way through the first half I’d totally lost interest.
We’ve had a terrible 18 months and I was looking for Bath to really provide a lift. Guess I’m now going to have to wait for Super Rugby to start for entertaining and exciting rugby.
If Bath management really read this forum can they please do something fast about the coaching setup.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 09:55
I don’t think Bath is in a vicious downward spiral. I think we slid into mediocrity a long time ago and haven’t recovered, having said this I’m not doing the usual slinging mud at the coaching staff we lost the two opening matches last year . What has changed ? Possibly not enough but then any change will take a while to settle. There was some evidence of a new playing style but not enough. What would the people on this board have been saying if we were on the end of two thumpings like Bristol have been. Vicious downward spiral? Sack Lam? Exeter two losses also another spiral. Baxter past his sell by? But we are 2 games into the season and things will change . I for one find this season opening quite intriguing and will wait and see.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 10:18
I personally want Hoops to succeed - 1. because I like the man and 2. for the club.
I have realised what I want rarely comes to fruition. This is my take on things - Bruce wanted immediate success as per Toulon where he had links. The Bath Rugby I have grown up and known is built on respect, hard work and togetherness.
That went out the window with the appointment of Mike Ford yes we played some exciting rugby culminating with a Final but we had gone away from our true values and had become a journeyman's paradise and slowly but surely things fell apart (in truth they started with the signing of Burgess) we lost many good players such as Carl Fearns a true club man who showed on Saturday he can still mix it at the top some 5-6 years post his acrimonious departure from our club - the exact type of player we so desperately need .
Tigers were astute enough to recognise they were sliding and signed Borthwick - Borthwick has come in and immediately dissected what made Tigers so good and hard to beat back in the day along with his Sarries experience - with that he is going about building a massive front 5 coupled with aggressive suffocating defence and getting the players to demand more of each other it is no coincidence they have started the season well.
As a Bath fan what I cannot accept is the clubs management of the playing side of our club - to go into the last 2 premiership campaigns with known shortages in key positions such as fly half/second row/scrum half is tantamount to incompetence. Our defence is the worst in the league by a country mile but we fail to appoint a specialist defence coach - our attack is blunt with only one natural ball carrier in our ranks and he sits on our bench and our basic skills are appalling. These issues have been present for years without address - The loss of Burns and Stooke without suitable replacement is unforgiveable and shows an inability by the DoR to understand the effect this would have on his squad. The failure to give his young guns game time in the latter half of last season then moaning about their lack of experience again is baffling and the inability to attract prime quality players to the club is an issue when all around in the Premiership appear to have little issue.
Yes as a life long supporter I do feel betrayal and anger especially when I never see any reaction from Hoops and hear the same rhetoric but no results.
Sorry for the rant - but I was so excited and expecting so much from this season after all the promises but feel so deflated after 2 games it is just an extension of the past 2 years - basic skills, defence, attitude and lack of desire and leadership. I wish I could just switch off and not care - but I can't I am a Bath boy and that will remain until the day I die.
I have realised what I want rarely comes to fruition. This is my take on things - Bruce wanted immediate success as per Toulon where he had links. The Bath Rugby I have grown up and known is built on respect, hard work and togetherness.
That went out the window with the appointment of Mike Ford yes we played some exciting rugby culminating with a Final but we had gone away from our true values and had become a journeyman's paradise and slowly but surely things fell apart (in truth they started with the signing of Burgess) we lost many good players such as Carl Fearns a true club man who showed on Saturday he can still mix it at the top some 5-6 years post his acrimonious departure from our club - the exact type of player we so desperately need .
Tigers were astute enough to recognise they were sliding and signed Borthwick - Borthwick has come in and immediately dissected what made Tigers so good and hard to beat back in the day along with his Sarries experience - with that he is going about building a massive front 5 coupled with aggressive suffocating defence and getting the players to demand more of each other it is no coincidence they have started the season well.
As a Bath fan what I cannot accept is the clubs management of the playing side of our club - to go into the last 2 premiership campaigns with known shortages in key positions such as fly half/second row/scrum half is tantamount to incompetence. Our defence is the worst in the league by a country mile but we fail to appoint a specialist defence coach - our attack is blunt with only one natural ball carrier in our ranks and he sits on our bench and our basic skills are appalling. These issues have been present for years without address - The loss of Burns and Stooke without suitable replacement is unforgiveable and shows an inability by the DoR to understand the effect this would have on his squad. The failure to give his young guns game time in the latter half of last season then moaning about their lack of experience again is baffling and the inability to attract prime quality players to the club is an issue when all around in the Premiership appear to have little issue.
Yes as a life long supporter I do feel betrayal and anger especially when I never see any reaction from Hoops and hear the same rhetoric but no results.
Sorry for the rant - but I was so excited and expecting so much from this season after all the promises but feel so deflated after 2 games it is just an extension of the past 2 years - basic skills, defence, attitude and lack of desire and leadership. I wish I could just switch off and not care - but I can't I am a Bath boy and that will remain until the day I die.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: hooker 72 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 10:48
Good morning from a Bristol perspective, both clubs are currently in the doldrums, Bath have been for some time and Bristol have been found out. Bath with their squad shouldnt be struggling so spotlight falls on the coach, Bristol with no preseason, large gaps in the squad which havent been addressed and no gameplan b, spotlight also falls on the coach. I think whoever wins, and I honestly cant call it, will still have huge issues and I hope a win doesnt paper over those issues for either club. Safe journey to all of you coming to the gate.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:10:48:46 by hooker 72.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:10:48:46 by hooker 72.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 11:16
I'm just desperate to see Will Stuart's name on the team sheet. A class tight-head can make a huge difference to the team...everything might look rosier after a 'W'.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 11:20
Quote:hooker 72
Good morning from a Bristol perspective, both clubs are currently in the doldrums, Bath have been for some time and Bristol have been found out. Bath with their squad shouldnt be struggling so spotlight falls on the coach, Bristol with no preseason, large gaps in the squad which havent been addressed and no gameplan b, spotlight also falls on the coach. I think whoever wins, and I honestly cant call it, will still have huge issues and I hope a win doesnt paper over those issues for either club. Safe journey to all of you coming to the gate.
I don't think Brizzle have been 'found out'
They're very early season poor start is down to a) no pre-season competitive game and b) some clubs like Wasps seriously upping their game
A above will be addressed in time and I think Lam is not worrying too much about the need to be top 2 from the get go, especially as Quins showed last season that it is entirely possible to break into 4th from a strong run in from mid season and then go onto win the final
And we are not in b)
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 11:46
Bath at their best in recent seasons came at the restart of the season after COVID. Hoops, to praise him a little, recruited Stuart, Boyce and Judge and between them rotated beautifully to deliver a good set piece and aggressive 5m out carrying. The success of which can be directly attributed to our lack of invention in the follow season.
Bath's reversal in form in this area can be traced back to Boyce's injury and having to start Judge. Just like at Sarries he was good for 30 minute cameos and little else. With Stuart a regular international I was hopeful Rae and Jonker would fill the void. I've been disappointed so far. How much is that done to them or the lack of a dedicated second row I don't know.
With Obano's lack of form in the scrum I'll be amazed if he made the EPS for the Autumn, he's a liability and with all props, set piece should be their priority.
Bath's reversal in form in this area can be traced back to Boyce's injury and having to start Judge. Just like at Sarries he was good for 30 minute cameos and little else. With Stuart a regular international I was hopeful Rae and Jonker would fill the void. I've been disappointed so far. How much is that done to them or the lack of a dedicated second row I don't know.
With Obano's lack of form in the scrum I'll be amazed if he made the EPS for the Autumn, he's a liability and with all props, set piece should be their priority.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:00
Team Up. Stuart & McNally return, but no Cipriani:
Bath Rugby team to play Bristol Bears
15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Will Muir, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Beno Obano, 2 Jacques du Toit, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Tom Dunn, 17 Lewis Boyce, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Mike Williams, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Max Green, 22 Max Clark, 23 Anthony Watson
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Bath Rugby team to play Bristol Bears
15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Semesa Rokoduguni, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Max Ojomoh, 11 Will Muir, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ollie Fox; 1 Beno Obano, 2 Jacques du Toit, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels ©, 6 Tom Ellis, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Josh Bayliss
Replacements
16 Tom Dunn, 17 Lewis Boyce, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Mike Williams, 20 Miles Reid, 21 Max Green, 22 Max Clark, 23 Anthony Watson
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:03
I take it our only ball carrier Coetzee is injured?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: SJS (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:09
Why, when we have two specialist 8's in the squad, one of whom is a world-class player who is currently kicking his heels doing children's reading sessions at Bath Library, do we have none in the matchday squad and a young 7 playing 8?
I'm just mystified by this selection - if Coetzee is injured it's fair enough, but why then leave Faletau out? Like it or not, he's the man in possession of the shirt and the only recognised 8 we have.
According to the Chron, he's not precluded from inclusion like the England players are either.
Utterly baffling.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:12:09:52 by SJS.
I'm just mystified by this selection - if Coetzee is injured it's fair enough, but why then leave Faletau out? Like it or not, he's the man in possession of the shirt and the only recognised 8 we have.
According to the Chron, he's not precluded from inclusion like the England players are either.
Utterly baffling.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:12:09:52 by SJS.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:11
The front five look way stronger. As does the bench. The front row will look better for a decent second row behind them.
So no Cipriani so far about lasted less than half of one game. Hopefully this is not the indication of things to come.
So no Cipriani so far about lasted less than half of one game. Hopefully this is not the indication of things to come.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: SJS (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:12
Bris:
15. Charles Piutau; 14. Ioan Lloyd, 13. Piers O’Conor, 12. Sam Bedlow, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Callum Sheedy, 9. Harry Randall; 1. Yann Thomas, 2. Will Capon, 3. Kyle Sinckler, 4. Ed Holmes, 5. Joe Joyce, 6. Chris Vui, 7. Jake Heenan, 8. Steven Luatua (c).
System players: 16. Jake Kerr, 17. Jake Woolmore, 18. Max Lahiff, 19. Fitz Harding, 20. Dan Thomas, 21. Andy Uren, 22. Antoine Frisch, 23. Alapati Leiua.
15. Charles Piutau; 14. Ioan Lloyd, 13. Piers O’Conor, 12. Sam Bedlow, 11. Henry Purdy; 10. Callum Sheedy, 9. Harry Randall; 1. Yann Thomas, 2. Will Capon, 3. Kyle Sinckler, 4. Ed Holmes, 5. Joe Joyce, 6. Chris Vui, 7. Jake Heenan, 8. Steven Luatua (c).
System players: 16. Jake Kerr, 17. Jake Woolmore, 18. Max Lahiff, 19. Fitz Harding, 20. Dan Thomas, 21. Andy Uren, 22. Antoine Frisch, 23. Alapati Leiua.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: SJS (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:13
I reckon we're in for a tonking...
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:20
Good to have our best tighthead and best scrummaging lock back- also Boyce on bench.
Like Ali & SJS, I am mystified at the omission of Coetzee- not just for carrying, but stability at scrum base. Hope that doesn't bite us!
PG
Like Ali & SJS, I am mystified at the omission of Coetzee- not just for carrying, but stability at scrum base. Hope that doesn't bite us!
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Grumpy_Uncle _Iroh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:21
I called Dunn being dropped in the Newcastle thread. I like Ellis at 6. We've been manhandled in the set pieces so far so having added ballast should better balance the backrow especially with McNally back.
Good luck to Obano v Sinker. They have Joyce back as well in the Second Row, an underrated player imo and should make them much stronger.
Interesting that Rae leaped Jonker. Guess coaches are still trying to gauge the better of the two. Boyce back is huge, like having a new signing.
Good luck to Obano v Sinker. They have Joyce back as well in the Second Row, an underrated player imo and should make them much stronger.
Interesting that Rae leaped Jonker. Guess coaches are still trying to gauge the better of the two. Boyce back is huge, like having a new signing.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:26
Unless I have missed something Coetzee not listed as injured - I have been baffled why he has not started the first 2 matches instead we coninue with a 7 playing 8?
TF is available buy Hoops doesn't want to rush him back? Yet Watson is rushed back to the bench?
Sinkler straight into the starting XV for Bears.
I am utterly confused and bewildered by our selection process. Coetzee made a huge difference in the last 2 games when finally put on, yet Hooper continues with this ultrafast back row - how has that gone so far?
TF is available buy Hoops doesn't want to rush him back? Yet Watson is rushed back to the bench?
Sinkler straight into the starting XV for Bears.
I am utterly confused and bewildered by our selection process. Coetzee made a huge difference in the last 2 games when finally put on, yet Hooper continues with this ultrafast back row - how has that gone so far?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:28
Quote:SJS
Why, when we have two specialist 8's in the squad, one of whom is a world-class player who is currently kicking his heels doing children's reading sessions at Bath Library, do we have none in the matchday squad and a young 7 playing 8?
I'm just mystified by this selection - if Coetzee is injured it's fair enough, but why then leave Faletau out? Like it or not, he's the man in possession of the shirt and the only recognised 8 we have.
According to the Chron, he's not precluded from inclusion like the England players are either.
Utterly baffling.
I’m pretty sure I spotted Faletau in a knee brace with crutches the other week, think I put it on one injury thread, never heard anything more about it in the media. Maybe it wasn’t him or it was only precautionary.
Hooper mentioned in his press chat that Faletau had played loads of rugby of the last couple of years and was managing his return, but certainly don’t remember much of that game time being for Bath….
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:31
Very surprised Coetzee isn't included.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:36
I rather imagine Coetzee is quite baffled too
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: SJS (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:38
Quote:dcshQuote:SJS
Why, when we have two specialist 8's in the squad, one of whom is a world-class player who is currently kicking his heels doing children's reading sessions at Bath Library, do we have none in the matchday squad and a young 7 playing 8?
I'm just mystified by this selection - if Coetzee is injured it's fair enough, but why then leave Faletau out? Like it or not, he's the man in possession of the shirt and the only recognised 8 we have.
According to the Chron, he's not precluded from inclusion like the England players are either.
Utterly baffling.
I’m pretty sure I spotted Faletau in a knee brace with crutches the other week, think I put it on one injury thread, never heard anything more about it in the media. Maybe it wasn’t him or it was only precautionary.
Hooper mentioned in his press chat that Faletau had played loads of rugby of the last couple of years and was managing his return, but certainly don’t remember much of that game time being for Bath….
In this article Hooper says “Taulupe is back training, we’ll be looking to get him back when he’s ready, but not too quickly because he’s played a lot of rugby over the last few years. We need to give him a good break and then re-condition him to get him up to speed.”
The Chron says "Contradictingly, despite there being no agreement in place preventing Bath from picking Welsh star Faletau now, Hooper says he is not rushing the number eight back into club service despite starting the season with back-to-back defeats."
No brace here, though I agree children's entertainment probably isn't comparable!
[twitter.com]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:42
I can understand Toby having a longer break than Watson. The amount of work/contact he’s gone through should be well tracked and will no doubt be quite a bit higher. No Radradra back for them is a bonus, as much as I like watching him play. Coetzee must be injured.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:43
I could have been mistaken, it was somewhere I’ve run into him several times, but I was overseeing a child cycling to school and didn’t look twice. Hopefully he will be back soon to get a few games in before he heads off on Wales duty.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:47
He really lost his mojo last season/BLs makes sense to give him a rest.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 12:47
Quote:gaz59
I rather imagine Coetzee is quite baffled too
Bet he’s wondering why he bothered to sign for us if they aren’t even going to include him in the 23.
If he’s actually injured why don’t the club list him as unavailable for selection?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 13:09
Quote:We no longer list anyone as unavailable for selectionOutsideBath
If he’s actually injured why don’t the club list him as unavailable for selection?
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:09:30:16:07:42 by Which Tyler.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 13:19
McNally and Stuart back at least gives a fighting chance.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 13:41
No Semi R, no Hughes and no Attwood are big plusses for Bath, as are the return of Stuart & McNally, but I really wonder if the team believe they can go to Ashton Gate and win on a Friday night.
Fully expect Bristol to get 5 points and Bath nothing.
Fully expect Bristol to get 5 points and Bath nothing.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 13:50
Stuart and mcnally back should make a big difference.
Not sure how many games faletau has played over the last few seasons but overall for bath I think it's about 50 in 5 years so does seem odd to not have him playing from this week but have to trust the reasoning I guess.
I assume coetzee is injured or we have a v specific plan for this game he doesn't fit.
Never upset to see ellis in the team- great nuts and bolts/glue type player
Shame rmc still out- for me he has been our best back 3 player over the last 2 years.
Not sure how many games faletau has played over the last few seasons but overall for bath I think it's about 50 in 5 years so does seem odd to not have him playing from this week but have to trust the reasoning I guess.
I assume coetzee is injured or we have a v specific plan for this game he doesn't fit.
Never upset to see ellis in the team- great nuts and bolts/glue type player
Shame rmc still out- for me he has been our best back 3 player over the last 2 years.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 14:29
Quote:dcsh
it was somewhere I’ve run into him several times, but I was overseeing a child cycling to school and didn’t look twice.
Perhaps just the way I read that but they might want to look for a safer leader for the childs cycling school
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 14:55
Quote:HahaOldMarovianQuote:dcsh
it was somewhere I’ve run into him several times, but I was overseeing a child cycling to school and didn’t look twice.
Perhaps just the way I read that but they might want to look for a safer leader for the childs cycling school
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 15:01
Quote:dcsh
I could have been mistaken, it was somewhere I’ve run into him several times, but I was overseeing a child cycling to school and didn’t look twice. Hopefully he will be back soon to get a few games in before he heads off on Wales duty.
At first I thought it read that you had run OVER him several times. No wonder he is injured a lot. All your fault...
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 15:12
[quote Which Tyler][quote OutsideBath][quote gaz59]If he’s actually injured why don’t the club list him as unavailable for selection?[/quote]We no longer list anyone as unavailable for selection[/quote]
Why is that? It’s not going to impact the individual player if he’s listed as not available.
Might help us mere fans to understand what appears to be strange team selections or don’t we matter that much?
Why is that? It’s not going to impact the individual player if he’s listed as not available.
Might help us mere fans to understand what appears to be strange team selections or don’t we matter that much?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 15:21
Quote:You got me, I shall try to take more care in the future, both cycling and writing!B4thB4ckQuote:dcsh
I could have been mistaken, it was somewhere I’ve run into him several times, but I was overseeing a child cycling to school and didn’t look twice. Hopefully he will be back soon to get a few games in before he heads off on Wales duty.
At first I thought it read that you had run OVER him several times. No wonder he is injured a lot. All your fault...
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 16:10
Quote:Because Hooper has decided not to, like most DoRs.OutsideBath
Why is that? It’s not going to impact the individual player if he’s listed as not available.
Might help us mere fans to understand what appears to be strange team selections or don’t we matter that much?
I agree, I loved it when we did that, but it's far from the norm.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 16:45
Yes, Bristol do it but not sure why really. Just tells you who is dropped / rested rather than injured. Speaking of which:
Unavailable: Bryan Byrne, Harry Thacker, John Afoa, Dave Attwood, Semi Radradra, Siva Naulago, Luke Morahan.
Some big names there. Glad Attwood isn't playing against us he's a tractor in the scrum and was well up for it vs Bath last time.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Unavailable: Bryan Byrne, Harry Thacker, John Afoa, Dave Attwood, Semi Radradra, Siva Naulago, Luke Morahan.
Some big names there. Glad Attwood isn't playing against us he's a tractor in the scrum and was well up for it vs Bath last time.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2021 18:33
I saw coetzee at the food festival on Sunday. Looked in good nik. I would I speculate that he is playing less in this 'block' to do extra injury-preventative reconditioning before he gets a full stretch. Super rugby is more dynamic, played on firmer pitches and there is much less emphasis on the breakdown. They may want him to add some timber.
Speaking of which, Nathan Hughes might be 'rested' to strip a bit of summer ballast, if my Bristol fan friends are correct.
Speaking of which, Nathan Hughes might be 'rested' to strip a bit of summer ballast, if my Bristol fan friends are correct.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 11:31
Oddschecker has Bristol 1/3, Bath 17/5 for the win 
[www.oddschecker.com]
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
[www.oddschecker.com]Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 11:51
Quote:
Don't think they will get much money on those Bath odds. I've got a couple of grand in premium bonds, those Bristol odds look like a great ROI
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 11:53
Quote:gaz59Quote:
Don't think they will get much money on those Bath odds. I've got a couple of grand in premium bonds, those Bristol odds look like a great ROI
You could risk half of it gaz just in case Bath surprise us all...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 12:32
Quote:
Both teams to score 20 and Bristol to win looks attractive at 11/4 price boost on Skybet tbf. If bath can get a decent platform for the Williams game with Stuart and McNally in the pack then I expect them to score a couple against a Bristol defence which has looked a bit suspect this season.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 14:14
To score 20 or at least 20? Either way I'd have to be honest, right here and right now I have very little confidence of us scoring two or more tries. I just hope the players have a lot more reason to be confident than I do
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 15:07
Well the weather look fine, so lets hope for a high scoring match, somehow losing seems easier to take if you score a few tries and there is always the chance that luck will be on our side
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: wiltshire wasp (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 17:09
At this stage my glass is full and I am optimistic for a good Bath performance - I hope for at least a losing bonus point. Maybe more ...... cheers!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 19:58
My first 10 minutes of watching Bath play this season. One lost lineout, two scrum pummelings and one penalty kick conceded. On the plus side we are moving the ball well. Until it reached Ewels.
I’m not sure how this one is going to go, but due to 30 years experience supporting Bath I am nervous.
I’m not sure how this one is going to go, but due to 30 years experience supporting Bath I am nervous.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 19:59
Only just got on the radio, sounds like we are spilling the ball left, right and Chelsea. How many try scoring opportunities have gone begging?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:02
Both teams are trying to play and neither side can quite make it stick. JJ is showing the most attacking sharpness I have seen from him in a good while but it doesn’t have the fluency of the Ford years so far tonight. Some lovely passing and running but scrappy. Bristol have the upper hand in the scrum against 4/5 of our first choice tight 5.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:04
Muir try! Finally we win a scrum and get the passes to stick!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:19
Clear knock on by scrum half missed before that try.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:22
Absolutely appalling refing.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:23
12 point swing to Bristol - clear KO missed by Randall, result Bristol try. TJ then calls a KO which wasn't which denies Ojo a try.
No rub of the green at all.
No rub of the green at all.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:23
The scrum is going to lose us this game if we don’t sort it.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:25
Fuming.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:25
Ojo shoved when going to the chip collection - should be a PT
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:27
Couldn't have less luck.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:28
With a tiny bit of decent reffing and a rub of the green we'd be 20 points up.
Getting killed by bad officiating.
Bailey having a stormer.
Getting killed by bad officiating.
Bailey having a stormer.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:29
Great try for Roko - brave call, great execution.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:30
WOW Bath!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:32
Positive first half finished with a Rocco try! Seems like things are starting to click but I hope our front row replacements are better than theirs as that is a real weak spot for us currently.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:34
Really great from Bath (except scrums). A genuine pleasure to watch. Couple of unlucky bounces and two pieces of complete incompetence from the officials.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:34
Much better!
keep it up boys!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
keep it up boys!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: supermarinematt (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:35
Fox, Bailey and Max do not look out of place at all so far. Backs and team as a whole moving the ball well. A bit more precision still needed.
Still abit nervous defensively though. Bris still look like they could carve us open when they get the ball.
A good first half all-in-all
Still abit nervous defensively though. Bris still look like they could carve us open when they get the ball.
A good first half all-in-all
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:38
TMO happy to chip in with knock ons except for when they score a try off one.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:41
With a modicum of luck, Bath would have scored 5 tries that half.
Scrums a huge worry.
Lineout has been great.
Line speed excellent.
But it's only 7 points which can disappear very quickly.
Scrums a huge worry.
Lineout has been great.
Line speed excellent.
But it's only 7 points which can disappear very quickly.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:41
Quote:hasta
. Couple of unlucky bounces and two pieces of complete incompetence from the officials.
And tonight is not an isolated occurrence.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:47
Somehow Bris didn't score in the opening move.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: plymptonchief (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:54
What have you guys done to upset Tempest??????????????
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:56
Jesus, Karl moron Dickson gets in on the @#$%& officiating act. Utter farce these decisions atm
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 20:59
Another sensational Bath try!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:00
Bloody brilliant!
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:01
Amazing from OB2
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:01
Wonderful again from everyone!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:03
Absolute stunner of a try.
TMO looking to pick up on us for everything as well. We never get the rub from Tempest either.
TMO looking to pick up on us for everything as well. We never get the rub from Tempest either.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:06
Ellis wrongly to the bin. PT to Bristol.
The officials literally are doing everything to ensure a Bristol win.
This is shockingly bad officiating from all 4.
The officials literally are doing everything to ensure a Bristol win.
This is shockingly bad officiating from all 4.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:07
Williams not a penalty, Bayliss only rode up. Tempest sounded very glad to give the penalty try.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:13
Bath expect to have another 9 announced next week apparently.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:22
Why aren’t we competing line outs any more?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:23
Dreadful tight game has completely undone all the positive attacking progress we seem to have made.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:24
Going pear shaped.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:24
Just bizarre game management to commit a cynical foul in that area and give ourselves another 10 minutes of a man down
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:25
16 penalties cenceeded - well about 5 were very dubious.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathIron (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:27
Is it just me but I have felt for a long time that issuing a yellow card on top of a penalty try (or even following a try in the case of Dunn) is unfair.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:29
Quote:But it’s been around long enough to raise questions as to why teams still do it. If the try’s inevitable, just give it up and reset yourselvesBathIron
Is it just me but I have felt for a long time that issuing a yellow card on top of a penalty try (or even following a try in the case of Dunn) is unfair.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:35
We got nothing from the officials. Very proud of the boys.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:36
Seems Bristol are allowed to collapse Bath's maul....
The TJ on the camera side has been woeful.
The TJ on the camera side has been woeful.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:36
Another nine, I'd settle for another eight (forwards).
This lot seem to be doing all they can to throw the game away
Hooper must go
This lot seem to be doing all they can to throw the game away
Hooper must go
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:37
Freedom of Bristol vfor the officials.
I thought Tempest was the most improved ref last season.
Tonight he gave a huge helping hand to Bristol.
Gutting, and totally not deserved.
I thought Tempest was the most improved ref last season.
Tonight he gave a huge helping hand to Bristol.
Gutting, and totally not deserved.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:37
I think at the start of the season, we’d happily have taken a point from this game.
Credit to Ojomoh, Fox and Bailey who were immense tonight
Credit to Ojomoh, Fox and Bailey who were immense tonight
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Jon Chess (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:38
Dreadful last play. Long season indeed.
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:38
Quote:A.M 180
I think at the start of the season, we’d happily have taken a point from this game.
Credit to Ojomoh, Fox and Bailey who were immense tonight
Those three were brilliant.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:39
Quote:NotColin
Another nine, I'd settle for another eight (forwards).
This lot seem to be doing all they can to throw the game away
Hooper must go
We lose one muppet and gain another.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:39
Stolen from us. Absolutely robbed.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:40
So many positives and taken apart up front. Frustrating.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:42
Unlucky Bath from Warriors.Some strange officiating against you guys,a lot of points left out there by both teams also.
You'll bounce back next game.
You'll bounce back next game.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:43
Pretty positive performance from Bath, but it felt like many of the calls went the way of the home team and certainly the first Bristol try should have been reviewed, what was the TMO watching?!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:44
So Bears allowed to collapse our Maul yet they get a penalty when ours guys look at Sinckler in the scrum???
Ref cost us as did the subs, too early and we lost momentum.
Ref cost us as did the subs, too early and we lost momentum.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:45
Taken apart at scrum maybe. We did them in the lineout. Awful discipline and fundamentally stop collapsing mauls it's moronic and costs us games.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:45
Given the youth running through the team from 8,9,10, 12,15 there was a lot to be pleased about.
Bailey was wonderful ball in hand and stood up in defence. Wish he could place kick like Rhys though.
Horrid result but more good than bad tonight. I feared another 40 point kicking before kick off.
Bailey was wonderful ball in hand and stood up in defence. Wish he could place kick like Rhys though.
Horrid result but more good than bad tonight. I feared another 40 point kicking before kick off.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: redmix (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:46
We should have won that. Some puzzling decisions (ref and subs), a few errors, and a few lucky bounces, all cost us.
Biggest question from me, why sub Underhill? He was by far our best forward, then off he goes.
I haven't seen the other two games, how did this compare? If this is typical of our play then I think the future is looking good. There are a few things that need to bed in and once they do we will be a side that competes in every game.
Biggest question from me, why sub Underhill? He was by far our best forward, then off he goes.
I haven't seen the other two games, how did this compare? If this is typical of our play then I think the future is looking good. There are a few things that need to bed in and once they do we will be a side that competes in every game.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:47
Robbed. 14 point swing with the knock on in the build up to their try and nothing wrong with ours. Very entertaining game, compare that to the Sarries match. Fox, Bailey, Max O very good games. Couple of superb hits from Underhill. Giving away the penalty try with a yellow card not a great decision…Ellis had a good game apart from that.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:47
Is there a single referee in the Premiership that understands the offside law (on which we were promised in 2019 there would be a clampdown)?
PG
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:47
Poor scrum, decent lineout, dubious discipline but lots of attacking positives and spirit. Tempest and Dixon were an absolute disaster. Tempest gets caught up in the emotion and loses his self control and then just goes with the crowd.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:49
Still I suppose we might not lose next week, Cips, Faletau etc can have a nice week off and out their feet up.
Hooper, Hatley, Ewels at al. are taking the mickey out of the fans with inept coaching, and awful on field game management.
Hooper, Hatley, Ewels at al. are taking the mickey out of the fans with inept coaching, and awful on field game management.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:50
Referee intimidated by the crowd. Bench emptied too soon and not enough strength in depth unfortunately but stuff to work on!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Jon Chess (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:51
It is fair to say that the Ref made some “ big calls” but ultimately we have not beaten Bristol away for nearly 14years!
Jon Chess
Jon Chess
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:51
Hooper very unhappy with the officiating.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:53
Quote:NotColin
Still I suppose we might not lose next week, Cips, Faletau etc can have a nice week off and out their feet up.
Hooper, Hatley, Ewels at al. are taking the mickey out of the fans with inept coaching, and awful on field game management.
We can't lose next week. I'll leave you to work that out, but doubt you're capable.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:53
Quote:Dorset Boy
Hooper very unhappy with the officiating.
I thought he spoke very well. Hard luck Bath but that's definitely a performance to build on. How good is Will Muir?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ilovebathtime (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:54
Some huge positives tonight. As said already, fox bailey and ojomoh, but also Joseph had his best game in a very long time as well as Muir and Underhill playing very well.
More than the individual performances though, there was really good intent to our attack, our defence was aggressive and defensive lineout very good. There were issues for sure and the scrum was a worry, but overall I think there is finally a sign that the work of the new attack coach is paying off.
The officiating was awful. Usually I don't think it would have changed the result, but tonight I think it might have done
More than the individual performances though, there was really good intent to our attack, our defence was aggressive and defensive lineout very good. There were issues for sure and the scrum was a worry, but overall I think there is finally a sign that the work of the new attack coach is paying off.
The officiating was awful. Usually I don't think it would have changed the result, but tonight I think it might have done
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:54
Oh, come on NC!
3 excellent tries, some very dubious decisions against Bath/pro Bristol. Yes, there were errors and too many penalties, but there was a lot in that performance to be optimistic about.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
3 excellent tries, some very dubious decisions against Bath/pro Bristol. Yes, there were errors and too many penalties, but there was a lot in that performance to be optimistic about.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:54
Hooper clearly fuming with the officials. Correctly.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:55
Quote:I think NotColin knows this. He's being 'ironic'.Dorset BoyQuote:NotColin
Still I suppose we might not lose next week, Cips, Faletau etc can have a nice week off and out their feet up.
Hooper, Hatley, Ewels at al. are taking the mickey out of the fans with inept coaching, and awful on field game management.
We can't lose next week. I'll leave you to work that out, but doubt you're capable.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:57
Quote:hasta
Hooper clearly fuming with the officials. Correctly.
Agreed.
We don't see that often. I must say I am pleased to see that passion and supressed anger.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 21:59
Quote:hasta
Hooper clearly fuming with the officials. Correctly.
Hoops correctly takes a lot of **** for some of the generic corporate talk but good to see him fuming tonight. Its hard to win when it's 16 v 13.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:00
There is no doubt the attacking style is getting deployed effectively. That was so much better, a joy to watch and some great tries. There equally should be no doubt that our scrum performance is just not good enough regardless of personnel.
But I've never been more angry with a refereeing performance than that including the Matthew Carley debacle.
But I've never been more angry with a refereeing performance than that including the Matthew Carley debacle.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: ilovebathtime (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:07
Quote:hasta
But I've never been more angry with a refereeing performance than that including the Matthew Carley debacle.
I had finally put that Mathew Carley debacle out of my head and you have now reminded me. Tempest away at Worcester is another that springs to mind when he yellow carded half our team. We do seem to have more than our fair share of debacles
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:07
Tempest I’ll give a pass
But Dickson is a different issue. IIRC it’s widely known his refereeing career has benefitted from opportunities others wouldn’t have gotten (he was given chances at RWC19 for goodness sake). Is promoting the pathway really worth having this guy impacting games and stealing a living still
But Dickson is a different issue. IIRC it’s widely known his refereeing career has benefitted from opportunities others wouldn’t have gotten (he was given chances at RWC19 for goodness sake). Is promoting the pathway really worth having this guy impacting games and stealing a living still
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:08
Quote:P G TipsQuote:hasta
Hooper clearly fuming with the officials. Correctly.
Agreed.
We don't see that often. I must say I am pleased to see that passion and supressed anger.
PG
Yep that means more to me than 30mins of corporate talk.
Hooper might not be the right man for the job but if I see the passion there I will support him and the lads.
More positives than negs tonight, but still a lose to Brizzle, uh!
Where were all these Bristol fans when they were at the memorial stadium??????
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:11
Neutral viewpoint
Underhill should not have been substituted.
Dickson is under performing as an official regularly.
Your 10 & 12 performed very well.
Underhill should not have been substituted.
Dickson is under performing as an official regularly.
Your 10 & 12 performed very well.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:16
Underhill went off injured last week and I don't think Reid is a massive downgrade. Don't have a massive issue with the substitution.
The two yellow cards left us with no possession and no territory for too long. We didn't have the energy left at the end to execute the opportunity we had.
The two yellow cards left us with no possession and no territory for too long. We didn't have the energy left at the end to execute the opportunity we had.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: bathstigg (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:26
3rd league loss on the bounce !17th of Oct we got Saracens and then Harlequins away. We have promising young players coming through but the side doesn't have the steel or strategy from a poor set of coaches who aren't up to the job.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 22:35
Quote:hasta
Hooper clearly fuming with the officials. Correctly.
Interesting that Bristol only sorted their lineout out when they started throwing crooked. They then got penalties from those lineouts and indeed a penalty try, resulting from those crooked throws. Yes- Bath may well have infringed, but what has happened to the officiating convention of penalising the first offence?
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Big Chief Little Chief (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 23:05
From a neutrals perspective.I thought you played well.
The officials on the other hand, did not, very very poor. Hooper is right to be angry! I'm not happy and I couldn't care less who won!
The officials on the other hand, did not, very very poor. Hooper is right to be angry! I'm not happy and I couldn't care less who won!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Kidney Stone (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 23:21
Much better than last week, even JJ shone.
But when McNally and Stuart were subbed it fell apart.
Good to see some emotion from Hoops.
But when McNally and Stuart were subbed it fell apart.
Good to see some emotion from Hoops.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 23:25
Thrilled with the kids. They were outstanding. Fantastic game. Sad we lost, but brought so much pride back tonight. Unlucky Bath.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 23:49
There was a lot of good stuff on display tonight which shows the effect of having a good attack coach. However, we still have the problem of Hateley being asked to do too much. He might now have got a better handle on the defence but the scrum is a disaster area which is ridiculous in view of that being his speciality & on which he built his reputation. However good we become in attack we cannot win many games with a sub standard scrum. Despite some doubt about the justification of some of the penalties we conceded that doesn’t bode well for the season ahead.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 23:50
Hatley is not the Scrum coach, Lilley is.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2021 23:54
BH
See the Geordan Murphy thread.
Hats is head Coach & Defence.
Forward Coaches are Lilley & Charteris.
You are right about "we cannot win many games with a sub standard scrum" but if by "Hateley being asked to do too much" you are referring to the scrum, that is not his key responsibility now - defence is.
PG
See the Geordan Murphy thread.
Hats is head Coach & Defence.
Forward Coaches are Lilley & Charteris.
You are right about "we cannot win many games with a sub standard scrum" but if by "Hateley being asked to do too much" you are referring to the scrum, that is not his key responsibility now - defence is.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 00:16
Quote:P G Tips
BH
See the Geordan Murphy thread.
Hats is head Coach & Defence.
Forward Coaches are Lilley & Charteris.
You are right about "we cannot win many games with a sub standard scrum" but if by "Hateley being asked to do too much" you are referring to the scrum, that is not his key responsibility now - defence is.
PG
That may be so but it seems a waste of his ability if he doesn’t have any involvement in the area in which his expertise is needed. I thought Charteris focused entirely on the lineout & Lilley was assistant to Hateley. If Hateley is leaving the responsibility entirely to someone of limited experience in Lilley then it’s not surprising we are where we are.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 06:18
Big improvement apart from the scrum.. Again too many penalties 20 ?
If ever anyone is going to knock on or lose the ball in contact in the oppo. 22 sadly it’s …….Charlie
Tempest desperate to give Bristol a penalty try almost theatrical in his tone of awarding it !
Plenty of positives in the backs.
Overall ROBBED !!
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
. Again too many penalties 20 ?
If ever anyone is going to knock on or lose the ball in contact in the oppo. 22 sadly it’s …….Charlie
Tempest desperate to give Bristol a penalty try almost theatrical in his tone of awarding it !
Plenty of positives in the backs.
Overall ROBBED !!
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 07:33
Overriding emotion is frustration as bris are out of nick and were there for the taking but we found a way to lose. Marginally easier to take when we have played with ambition and skill though.
Positives
Played what was in front us and tried things
Some good execution and 3 clinical good tries
Lineout caused them problems
Bailey was v good - learning from cips (who ironically may struggle to get back in on that showing)
Mojo is class- redpath has a fight on
Fox developing nicely as a back up to spencer
Muir and tdg are v tidy players who are a threat
JJ trucked it up well- fair play
Underhill showing England class
Good to have mcnally back
Negatives
Scrum is a disaster zone after being a strength a few years ago with same personnel. Coaching seems an issue and stuart never seems to dominate anymore in the way other top props do like sinckler, marler, louw, genge, cole etc
Maul in attack and defence has also gone from a strength to a weakness
Discipline. Awful pen count and Dunns yellow was v v dim - he has become a bit of a liability. Delayed a try by 30 secs and put us down to 13
Officiating- I usually rate tempest but got some big calls wrong and his team were poor. Definitely impacted result
Ewels needs to stop getting stripped by men half his size
General observation. Pre covid, big skew to home wins, during lockdown much more even, would not be surprised to see it spike back up to home wins. Example- innocuous 'seat belt tackle' by roko. Borderline pen and no issue with it being given but don't think it would have been reviewed without the crowd bleating. Pen, kick to corner which should have led to a try. Lots of examples every game.....
Overall- reasons for hope which I didn't have before the game!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:07:49:19 by charlieboa.
Positives
Played what was in front us and tried things
Some good execution and 3 clinical good tries
Lineout caused them problems
Bailey was v good - learning from cips (who ironically may struggle to get back in on that showing)
Mojo is class- redpath has a fight on
Fox developing nicely as a back up to spencer
Muir and tdg are v tidy players who are a threat
JJ trucked it up well- fair play
Underhill showing England class
Good to have mcnally back
Negatives
Scrum is a disaster zone after being a strength a few years ago with same personnel. Coaching seems an issue and stuart never seems to dominate anymore in the way other top props do like sinckler, marler, louw, genge, cole etc
Maul in attack and defence has also gone from a strength to a weakness
Discipline. Awful pen count and Dunns yellow was v v dim - he has become a bit of a liability. Delayed a try by 30 secs and put us down to 13
Officiating- I usually rate tempest but got some big calls wrong and his team were poor. Definitely impacted result
Ewels needs to stop getting stripped by men half his size
General observation. Pre covid, big skew to home wins, during lockdown much more even, would not be surprised to see it spike back up to home wins. Example- innocuous 'seat belt tackle' by roko. Borderline pen and no issue with it being given but don't think it would have been reviewed without the crowd bleating. Pen, kick to corner which should have led to a try. Lots of examples every game.....
Overall- reasons for hope which I didn't have before the game!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:07:49:19 by charlieboa.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: copester (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 08:07
Quote:charlieboa
Overriding emotion is frustration as bris are out of nick and were there for the taking but we found a way to lose. Marginally easier to take when we have played with ambition and skill though.
Positives
Played what was in front us and tried things
Some good execution and 3 clinical good tries
Lineout caused them problems
Bailey was v good - learning from cips (who ironically may struggle to get back in on that showing)
Mojo is class- redpath has a fight on
Fox developing nicely as a back up to spencer
Muir and tdg are v tidy players who are a threat
JJ trucked it up well- fair play
Underhill showing England class
Good to have mcnally back
Negatives
Scrum is a disaster zone after being a strength a few years ago with same personnel. Coaching seems an issue and stuart never seems to dominate anymore in the way other top props do like sinckler, marler, louw, genge, cole etc
Maul in attack and defence has also gone from a strength to a weakness
Discipline. Awful pen count and Dunns yellow was v v dim - he has become a bit of a liability. Delayed a try by 30 secs and put us down to 13
Officiating- I usually rate tempest but got some big calls wrong and his team were poor. Definitely impacted result
Ewels needs to stop getting stripped by men half his size
General observation. Pre covid, big skew to home wins, during lockdown much more even, would not be surprised to see it spike back up to home wins. Example- innocuous 'seat belt tackle' by roko. Borderline pen and no issue with it being given but don't think it would have been reviewed without the crowd bleating. Pen, kick to corner which should have led to a try. Lots of examples every game.....
Overall- reasons for hope which I didn't have before the game!
Totally agree with this. I will add that this was Stuarts first game for months and I am sure he will become battle hardened/match fit and become the solid scummager he was before. A week off and hopefully see a squad that could include Faletau, Cips and McConnachie.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 08:40
Quote:hasta
There is no doubt the attacking style is getting deployed effectively. That was so much better, a joy to watch and some great tries. There equally should be no doubt that our scrum performance is just not good enough regardless of personnel.
But I've never been more angry with a refereeing performance than that including the Matthew Carley debacle.
Seems lame to just blame the ref for yet another defeat.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 08:49
Did you watch the game?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 08:52
Quote:hasta
Did you watch the game?
Nope, couldn’t think of a compelling reason to do so. However it’s never the fault of the ref so seems just an excuse to explain the loss.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 08:58
Well you missed some absolutely fantastic play from Bath. You also missed the ref and TMO missing a clear knock on for a Bristol try (O'Driscoll saw it clearly in real time and on replay) and two minutes later the ref calling a knock on that didn't happen (at all) directly before a Bath try and refusing to go back to check it. They were two blatantly wrong calls that caused a 12-point swing in two minutes.
Normally I would agree about not blaming a ref, and Bath still have significant issues in the front row, the maul and in discipline. But this was truly appalling.
Normally I would agree about not blaming a ref, and Bath still have significant issues in the front row, the maul and in discipline. But this was truly appalling.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 09:00
We did not lose because of the referee, there were many good performances and the players were obviously enjoying the game, which is good, but we still have that soft underbelly and the team seemed content playing the game without any real clear thought or planning in the final 10 minutes about winning it, just carry on playing and hope for the best.
An improvement on the previous game but Bristol were not a top four team last night and we had it there to win, this is still going to be a long hard season against better teams than Bristol, in spite of some very good individual performances.
An improvement on the previous game but Bristol were not a top four team last night and we had it there to win, this is still going to be a long hard season against better teams than Bristol, in spite of some very good individual performances.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 09:15
Despite my negativity and ambivalence pre game, I loved that. Most excited I’ve been watching Bath in a while. A great advert for Prem rugby and our young lads played beyond their years. McNally my MotM, mind. I know he can’t have been match fit but why sub him?!
However we’re 0-3, which is depressing and concerning, especially with a rest week followed by Sar, Leic and Exet. We’ve big problems at scrum which is almost unexplainable given the talent in our squad and the fact we have the ex England scrum coach. For me, scrum was the reason we lost. Tempest and his team made some odd calls but they, like the bounce of the ball, which we didn’t get, affect every team every week.
In Williams’ words, we won the style game by a mile, which was great. If our young team played like that every week this season, developing individually and as a team, and finished 6th, I’d be delighted. Problem is if we play like that (or worse ie last week) and finish 12th.
However we’re 0-3, which is depressing and concerning, especially with a rest week followed by Sar, Leic and Exet. We’ve big problems at scrum which is almost unexplainable given the talent in our squad and the fact we have the ex England scrum coach. For me, scrum was the reason we lost. Tempest and his team made some odd calls but they, like the bounce of the ball, which we didn’t get, affect every team every week.
In Williams’ words, we won the style game by a mile, which was great. If our young team played like that every week this season, developing individually and as a team, and finished 6th, I’d be delighted. Problem is if we play like that (or worse ie last week) and finish 12th.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 09:51
The worry is that I imagine teams like leic, ex, sarries are licking their lips.
Will seriously fancy their chances of getting the games won purely on the back of scrum dominance.
I am not sure how you don't get a tune out of obano, dunn, stuart, mcnally, ewels. Doesn't seem a weak pack? Don't have huge faith in a back up front 5 of boyce, du toit, rae/jonker, spencer , williams.
As I said lots of positives from last night but dodgy scrum will completely undermine us in several games if we dont/can't sort it.
Your point copester on stuarts first game in is completely fair, hopefully he can improve but didnt think last season he was dominant often in the way he was before.
Will seriously fancy their chances of getting the games won purely on the back of scrum dominance.
I am not sure how you don't get a tune out of obano, dunn, stuart, mcnally, ewels. Doesn't seem a weak pack? Don't have huge faith in a back up front 5 of boyce, du toit, rae/jonker, spencer , williams.
As I said lots of positives from last night but dodgy scrum will completely undermine us in several games if we dont/can't sort it.
Your point copester on stuarts first game in is completely fair, hopefully he can improve but didnt think last season he was dominant often in the way he was before.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 09:56
Quote:hasta
Well you missed some absolutely fantastic play from Bath. You also missed the ref and TMO missing a clear knock on for a Bristol try (O'Driscoll saw it clearly in real time and on replay) and two minutes later the ref calling a knock on that didn't happen (at all) directly before a Bath try and refusing to go back to check it. They were two blatantly wrong calls that caused a 12-point swing in two minutes.
Normally I would agree about not blaming a ref, and Bath still have significant issues in the front row, the maul and in discipline. But this was truly appalling.
Completely agree. I am generally loathed to think officials fundamentally determine many results but I think that was at least debatable last night.
That momentum swing was huge and a direct result of 2 really poor bits of officiating. The interventions (and lack of) from touch judges and tmo really didn't help tempest.
Was it the touchie who called baths knock on? Why get involved.....tmo should be watching and will be in refs ear if there's been a clear knock on. Just really poor.and the fact that neutrals have come on here saying it makes me feel like it's not just us being one eyed.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 10:12
My general feeling now with referee calls is unless your team didn't make enough mistakes of their own to counter the margin of loss (Ewels dropping the ball over the line, obviously collapsing mauls for yellow cards, etc) then you suck it up but I have to agree that Tempest and his team had a very poor game.
Worse overall for Bath definitely but poor calls for both sides. As Hasta says the knock-on calls were almost inexplicable as was a call against Bristol at the end for collapsing the maul and several high shots that went totally unpunished.
I struggle with the idea that any referees are anti any team or really referee with bias but I can see as a team if it feels you're getting nothing from the referee it impacts and inhibits how you play.
Worse overall for Bath definitely but poor calls for both sides. As Hasta says the knock-on calls were almost inexplicable as was a call against Bristol at the end for collapsing the maul and several high shots that went totally unpunished.
I struggle with the idea that any referees are anti any team or really referee with bias but I can see as a team if it feels you're getting nothing from the referee it impacts and inhibits how you play.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 10:18
Quote:charlieboa
The worry is that I imagine teams like leic, ex, sarries are licking their lips.
Never. The last time I felt super-confident when we visited the Rec with a strong squad and a weakened Bath one bloomin' Roko pulled a double out of thin air and you beat us!
From the outside the exciting thing is how much talented youth you have. Guys like Reid, Bayliss in the forwards especially and then some exciting backs.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 10:36
Quote:warrenball
We did not lose because of the referee,
No - we lost because we gave away too many penalties, were bested in the scrum and could not cope with driven mauls from the lineout.
All those were however impacted by ref decisions - several of which were considered contentious by the commentary team.
Also- as hasta points out, Bristol gained a try from a knock on and Bath were denied one for a knock on that did not happen, following a Bristol one that did- this was picked up by the commentators when the reply was shown.
So - Bath may well have lost anyway, but that officiating performance was some way below the level required by the quality of play.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 10:46
Taking an overview on our season so far we have come up against two top 4 teams who have started poorly, either from absentees or just being undercooked. Those are matches we should win if we are going to even be mid table. Obviously we should also expect to beat Newcastle at home but we didn’t even turn up for that match. It seems that most of our tight 5 have deteriorated & aren’t being adequately coached. There will be few teams at the top of their game whom we can beat with that handicap despite evident improvement in our attacking play & really exciting youngsters developing fast. It seems utterly clueless to have one of the country’s reputedly best forwards coaches not involved with coaching the forwards & some of the new recruits seem pretty unimpressive.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 10:51
Quote:OldMarovian
My general feeling now with referee calls is unless your team didn't make enough mistakes of their own to counter the margin of loss (Ewels dropping the ball over the line, obviously collapsing mauls for yellow cards, etc) then you suck it up but I have to agree that Tempest and his team had a very poor game.
Worse overall for Bath definitely but poor calls for both sides. As Hasta says the knock-on calls were almost inexplicable as was a call against Bristol at the end for collapsing the maul and several high shots that went totally unpunished.
I struggle with the idea that any referees are anti any team or really referee with bias but I can see as a team if it feels you're getting nothing from the referee it impacts and inhibits how you play.
Good post OM and I agree. I don't think anyone is for a moment suggesting anyone official is anti-bath or ref with pre conceived bias , just that we were on the wrong end of more than our fair share of key decisions. As you say we still had chances and imho a decent team would have put bris away.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 10:55
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:charlieboa
The worry is that I imagine teams like leic, ex, sarries are licking their lips.
Never. The last time I felt super-confident when we visited the Rec with a strong squad and a weakened Bath one bloomin' Roko pulled a double out of thin air and you beat us!
From the outside the exciting thing is how much talented youth you have. Guys like Reid, Bayliss in the forwards especially and then some exciting backs.
I remember that one- vintage, peak roko!
Agree we have some really exciting talent- my only real concerns are around the foundations of all our tight game which is so fundamental to success in the prem. I genuinely think you and others would squeeze the life out of us comfortably unless we improve. Also the cyclical nature of solving one problem and another popping up. V frustrating but as I say at least last night had some enjoyable, good rugby.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:01
It was a close game.
Someone had to lose.
Sorry it was Bath, but ................................
but , but, but................................
Blaming the Ref is very very immature stuff.
Someone had to lose.
Sorry it was Bath, but ................................
but , but, but................................
Blaming the Ref is very very immature stuff.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:05
Can we talk about that kick from Bailey... I wonder who he learned that from? (!)
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:11
This is not meant as any criticism of Bailey, who I thought was excellent.
He missed two, albeit difficult conversions, which would have had us at 24....................therefore 25 - 24 in the last few minutes with us awarded a kickable penalty kick.
All I am trying to say these games are won, or lost, by fine margins...............we need to improve, in my view only a little in consistency................Ewells as an England player should not have dropped that ball............
I have thought for some time now that you let a driving maul score, do not concede a penalty try and certainly do not go down to 14 men. Take the kick off and pressure the opposition in the ir own half and rebuild.
He missed two, albeit difficult conversions, which would have had us at 24....................therefore 25 - 24 in the last few minutes with us awarded a kickable penalty kick.
All I am trying to say these games are won, or lost, by fine margins...............we need to improve, in my view only a little in consistency................Ewells as an England player should not have dropped that ball............
I have thought for some time now that you let a driving maul score, do not concede a penalty try and certainly do not go down to 14 men. Take the kick off and pressure the opposition in the ir own half and rebuild.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:18
I thought ellis was a little unlucky- not a big fan of double jeopardy scenarios. Pen try was fine but looked more of a slip as he was getting hurtled backwards, maybe I am being one eyed there.
Dunn's was unforgivable- dim. Already down to 14, try was pretty inevitable. All he did was put us down to 13 and delay the try by 30 seconds. He needs to seriously sort himself himself out as a walking card recently (I am a big fan so fingers crossed)
Dunn's was unforgivable- dim. Already down to 14, try was pretty inevitable. All he did was put us down to 13 and delay the try by 30 seconds. He needs to seriously sort himself himself out as a walking card recently (I am a big fan so fingers crossed)
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:19
Quote:I like the view that rugby officials should be respected but it must also be acknowledged that their decisions can have a massive bearing on a game, particularly rugby where half the time a decision comes down to the ref's interpretation. Given they're well paid at the top level it's understandable that they now face some scrutiny. It's not often a poster like Hasta gets animated about officials so maybe their decisions did have some impact on the result, for all Bath's apparent failings in the second half.annie blackthorn
It was a close game.
Someone had to lose.
Sorry it was Bath, but ................................
but , but, but................................
Blaming the Ref is very very immature stuff.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:40
Quote:annie blackthorn
Blaming the Ref is very very immature stuff.
Does that mean you think the officials had a good game, annie?
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 11:41
I agree that one should not usually blame the ref for a defeat. But to counter that you should have the right to expect a certain standard of refereeing at premiership level. The ref team fell short of that yesterday. Not reviewing either of critical decisions was inexcusable given that a try resulted from both. What is the TMO for if not that?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:02
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:02
Firstly and most importantly it was great to see some passion back that goes for the team and even more importantly the DoR - at long last Hoops was snappy in relation to the Officials - showed passion and outwardly showed it meant something.
The officials were absolutely shocking and were an embarrassment but for both sides - however Bath really suffered at the lack of ability at scrum time where Yann Thomas was going in at an angle Pythagoras would have been proud of right in front of the officials and nothing - Sinckler was consistently pulling the bind away and although Tempest had a shocker he had no support from his team touch judges who may as well not have been there and in particular the ever useless Karl Dickson I cannot even now understand how he failed to pull the Luatua try back for Randalls knock on - let alone the numerous other failings throughout the game - but you kind of expect that from him - totally out of his depth officiating at this level.
Bristol know that yesterday was one of those rare occasions where you get a win without deserving it. Saying all of that and everything that went against us yesterday does not detract from our obvious achilles heal - our front five and lack of any ball carriers. Every occasion last night that one of our front 5 tried a big charge they were hit back bar a couple of Obano shuffles which gained a couple of metres - compare that to Bears with Joyce, Luatua & Vui constantly hitting hard - yes they spilt the ball on occasions but their contact took it's toll on our defence and it showed in the final 20 minutes.
All in all much better but still many issues to sort out and with Sarries in a couple of weeks we need to improve by a massive margin to be competitive IMHO because our backs will not be given the freedom the Bears afforded them last night.
Well played boys you deserved better IMHO.
The officials were absolutely shocking and were an embarrassment but for both sides - however Bath really suffered at the lack of ability at scrum time where Yann Thomas was going in at an angle Pythagoras would have been proud of right in front of the officials and nothing - Sinckler was consistently pulling the bind away and although Tempest had a shocker he had no support from his team touch judges who may as well not have been there and in particular the ever useless Karl Dickson I cannot even now understand how he failed to pull the Luatua try back for Randalls knock on - let alone the numerous other failings throughout the game - but you kind of expect that from him - totally out of his depth officiating at this level.
Bristol know that yesterday was one of those rare occasions where you get a win without deserving it. Saying all of that and everything that went against us yesterday does not detract from our obvious achilles heal - our front five and lack of any ball carriers. Every occasion last night that one of our front 5 tried a big charge they were hit back bar a couple of Obano shuffles which gained a couple of metres - compare that to Bears with Joyce, Luatua & Vui constantly hitting hard - yes they spilt the ball on occasions but their contact took it's toll on our defence and it showed in the final 20 minutes.
All in all much better but still many issues to sort out and with Sarries in a couple of weeks we need to improve by a massive margin to be competitive IMHO because our backs will not be given the freedom the Bears afforded them last night.
Well played boys you deserved better IMHO.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dannyf2 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:02
Rugby isn't fair guys. Like life.
If you don't like it, get in to soccer.
If you don't like it, get in to soccer.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Deckchair (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:09
Now that was a game that I would willingly have paid £50 for. A great game of rugby with plenty of entertainment and it was nip and tuck all the way. Great to see the Bath 3/4's playing adventurous, passing game and they were matched in their intent by a Bristol side that also come to play attacking rugby. Hardly a box kick to talk about. The box kick is dead, long live the grubber. Plenty of pluses in Bath back line and Underhill and Reid continue to show their class. Rest of the pack very much a work in progress though. They look lightweight on the field and off the bench and their discipline continues to cost us. The match was finely balanced but was tipped by Bristol's sorting our their failing line-out in the second half and Bath failing to stem their awful penalty count, often conceded or the most brain dead reasons while in an attacking position. The last scrum with the clock in the red and five points down and camped on Bristol's try line and I am screaming at Bath "whatever you do don't give a penalty away!" Dumb and dumber.
Bristol just about deserved the win but despite the valiant attempt to play good attacking rugby we find ourselves 0 from 3 with Saracens and Quins looming. Let's hope Bath continue with their enterprise, but we will need to aspire to more than LBPs if we are not to be propping the table for Christmas.
Bristol just about deserved the win but despite the valiant attempt to play good attacking rugby we find ourselves 0 from 3 with Saracens and Quins looming. Let's hope Bath continue with their enterprise, but we will need to aspire to more than LBPs if we are not to be propping the table for Christmas.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:11
For the benefit of OB and Annie who clearly didn't watch the game:
On the Ojo disallowed try, no ref 'on his game' would have blown for the (non) knock on at that moment. Iy was clear Ojo was about to score. as ref you then ask the TMO. That was inexcusable from Tempest.
Likewise, it was inexcusable from Karl Dickson to not pick up the knock on at the base that then resulted in Bristol's first try.
Those were the two most glaring and frankly awful errors.
There were plenty of others - neither Baylis or Williams hit their men high in the build up to one of the lineout tries (I think it was the penalty try), so again a 7 point swing to Bristol plus the loss of a man for Bath.
Muir wrongly penaltised from a kick off when jumping over their porp trying to contest the ball. If there was an offence there, it wasn't by Muir - by Karl Dickson intervened incorrectly. 45m territory gain and more momentum to Bristol.
Underhill wrongly penalised at a ruck when turning the ball over, Bailey had clearly rolled away.
Ojo pushed when chasing a chip that he was favourite to reach first and would have scored. Nothing seen by 4 officials though the replay showed it.
Final maul, clear collapse by Bristol in front of the TJ.
It becomes very difficult to turn a 19+ point swing around that was caused by really poor officiating. One of the TJs might as well have had a Bristol shirt on, and Dickson should be nowhere near a Premiership match, ever. Those were really big decisions against Bath. Scrum penalties are a lottery so you just can't comment on them.
As I said earlier, I thought Tempest was the most improved ref last season. On last night's performance he should be grovelling around Farleigh next week.
That said, the weakness at the scrums is a huge concern.
Lineout was generally excellent.
Ellis was huge in the loose.
Dropped balls with the line beckoning - both captains did that.
On the Ojo disallowed try, no ref 'on his game' would have blown for the (non) knock on at that moment. Iy was clear Ojo was about to score. as ref you then ask the TMO. That was inexcusable from Tempest.
Likewise, it was inexcusable from Karl Dickson to not pick up the knock on at the base that then resulted in Bristol's first try.
Those were the two most glaring and frankly awful errors.
There were plenty of others - neither Baylis or Williams hit their men high in the build up to one of the lineout tries (I think it was the penalty try), so again a 7 point swing to Bristol plus the loss of a man for Bath.
Muir wrongly penaltised from a kick off when jumping over their porp trying to contest the ball. If there was an offence there, it wasn't by Muir - by Karl Dickson intervened incorrectly. 45m territory gain and more momentum to Bristol.
Underhill wrongly penalised at a ruck when turning the ball over, Bailey had clearly rolled away.
Ojo pushed when chasing a chip that he was favourite to reach first and would have scored. Nothing seen by 4 officials though the replay showed it.
Final maul, clear collapse by Bristol in front of the TJ.
It becomes very difficult to turn a 19+ point swing around that was caused by really poor officiating. One of the TJs might as well have had a Bristol shirt on, and Dickson should be nowhere near a Premiership match, ever. Those were really big decisions against Bath. Scrum penalties are a lottery so you just can't comment on them.
As I said earlier, I thought Tempest was the most improved ref last season. On last night's performance he should be grovelling around Farleigh next week.
That said, the weakness at the scrums is a huge concern.
Lineout was generally excellent.
Ellis was huge in the loose.
Dropped balls with the line beckoning - both captains did that.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:13
Quote:charlieboa
I don't think anyone is for a moment suggesting anyone official is anti-bath or ref with pre conceived bias , just that we were on the wrong end of more than our fair share of key decisions.
Absolutely and to be clear I wasn't suggesting anyone here was saying that. What I like so much about this board is that whilst there are lots of different views it's very balanced and interesting chat.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:31
Are you saying, Dorset Boy, that we should have won by about 19 points based on those erroneous decisions? I imagine that there were some that went unfairly against Bristol as well & assessing the match without blinkers on I wouldn’t say categorically that we deserved to win, largely owing to our inferior pack. We can be critical of certain decisions but need to remove the blinkers!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:36
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:charlieboa
I don't think anyone is for a moment suggesting anyone official is anti-bath or ref with pre conceived bias , just that we were on the wrong end of more than our fair share of key decisions.
Absolutely and to be clear I wasn't suggesting anyone here was saying that. What I like so much about this board is that whilst there are lots of different views it's very balanced and interesting chat.
Agreed OM, dont worry knew you wouldn't be implying that. also wanted to say I really like you posting on here. Insight from fans of other clubs gives really interesting balance so thanks for sticking with us. I hate it when people are hostile to other clubs fans, makes the site a poorer place
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 12:51
Quote:charlieboaQuote:OldMarovian
Absolutely and to be clear I wasn't suggesting anyone here was saying that. What I like so much about this board is that whilst there are lots of different views it's very balanced and interesting chat.
Agreed OM, dont worry knew you wouldn't be implying that. also wanted to say I really like you posting on here. Insight from fans of other clubs gives really interesting balance so thanks for sticking with us. I hate it when people are hostile to other clubs fans, makes the site a poorer place
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 13:14
Quote:Bath Hammer
Are you saying, Dorset Boy, that we should have won by about 19 points based on those erroneous decisions? I imagine that there were some that went unfairly against Bristol as well & assessing the match without blinkers on I wouldn’t say categorically that we deserved to win, largely owing to our inferior pack. We can be critical of certain decisions but need to remove the blinkers!
We have no idea how the game would have unfolded from the point Randall knocked on at the base. It should have been a Bath scrum. Maybe Bristol would then have scored 30 unaswered ponts, maybe Bath would have done the same.
However those glaring errors amounted to at least 12 points for Bristol and a reduction of 12-14 for Bath.
You expect errors from the officials, and it is difficult to comment on the scrum penalties, but when the TMO is asleep on the job, and the ref blows early etc... Tthere wasn't any balance to the officiating last night and that cost Bath their chance of a win.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: stephen4944 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 13:15
Quote:charlieboa
I thought ellis was a little unlucky- not a big fan of double jeopardy scenarios. Pen try was fine but looked more of a slip as he was getting hurtled backwards, maybe I am being one eyed there.
Dunn's was unforgivable- dim. Already down to 14, try was pretty inevitable. All he did was put us down to 13 and delay the try by 30 seconds. He needs to seriously sort himself himself out as a walking card recently (I am a big fan so fingers crossed)
I saw this the opposite way round.
Ellis clearly sat down when he hit the try line, pulling down a full maul. Seemed cynical to me.
Dunn, was 1v3 on a splinter off the side off the main maul, and was just overpowered by extra numbers.
Haven't rewatched, so may be mistaken, but that was my view of both on first viewing.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 13:35
You may well be right, Stephen...I haven't taken a second look either
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 14:10
The knock on/forward pass definitely happened and was the correct call to disallow the try... clearly seen at the ground but angles on TV weren't the best. Mysterious lack of vitriol directed towards Barf bench and officials for calling a knock on that actually never was for a strip on O'Connor that was regathered too?
Being honest there were things missed for both sides and none had a huge impact on the match and ultimately came down to how each team responded and performed. Officials were by and large decent, if that has created such a poopstorm I'd hate to see it when you truly get some game defining howlers and one sided officiating.
Being honest there were things missed for both sides and none had a huge impact on the match and ultimately came down to how each team responded and performed. Officials were by and large decent, if that has created such a poopstorm I'd hate to see it when you truly get some game defining howlers and one sided officiating.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 15:16
You're wrong. The highlights are very clear, there was no knock on. There was one in Bristol's try.
You're also comparing a difference in interpretation versus a two very clear errors that directly led to tries.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:15:20:00 by hasta.
You're also comparing a difference in interpretation versus a two very clear errors that directly led to tries.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:15:20:00 by hasta.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 15:52
Quote:I am not wrong,the ball went forward - no try.hasta
You're wrong.
The POC strip was on a break with overlap and Barf jammed up near touch and down to 14. Sure they missed a Randall knock on (things like that happen nearly every ruck BTW if we want to be pedantic) but also got the POC wrong too yet no wailing and gnashing of teeth over that or the collapsed maul pen against Bristol that shouldn't have been given.
Refer you to my last paragraph. Going to be a long old season for you if you genuinely believe the nonsense being bandied about in this thread and elsewhere.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 16:01
It'll be a long season for us if our scrum and discipline don't improve. Everyone on this thread has acknowledged that.
You're fundamentally wrong about that knock on, it wasn't a knock on and it didn't go forward in the pass. It looks weird, but it's very clear on TV. As was your knock-on.
A strip vs knock on in a tackle is always harder to judge. I'm not particularly complaining about the TMO intervention for marginal seat belt tackles or will Muir's entirely fair challenge or Sam Underhill's clearly valid steal. Those are the sorts of things that go for you or against you.
The clear knock on and not were out in the open and directly impacted the scoreline. They are exactly what the TMO is there to fix. They failed. It was a 12-point impact.
You're fundamentally wrong about that knock on, it wasn't a knock on and it didn't go forward in the pass. It looks weird, but it's very clear on TV. As was your knock-on.
A strip vs knock on in a tackle is always harder to judge. I'm not particularly complaining about the TMO intervention for marginal seat belt tackles or will Muir's entirely fair challenge or Sam Underhill's clearly valid steal. Those are the sorts of things that go for you or against you.
The clear knock on and not were out in the open and directly impacted the scoreline. They are exactly what the TMO is there to fix. They failed. It was a 12-point impact.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 16:10
Quote:hasta
You're fundamentally wrong about that knock on, it wasn't a knock on and it didn't go forward in the pass.
No, you are the one fundamentally wrong and only going by poor TV angle rather than people who were actually there. Frankly you're embarrassing yourself.
Woe is you, totally robbed, would have won by 30, Hooper came over as very knowledgeable on TV, match was fixed, etc. Happy?
Goodbye.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 16:13
It's going to be a really long season if we have to suffer Rinkadink on this message board all season!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 16:21
Quote:OutsideBath
It's going to be a really long season if we have to suffer Rinkadink on this message board all season!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 16:23
Well I never knew the view from the stands was better than all tghe TV cameras & angles they give.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 16:56
Quote:Woe is you, totally robbed, would have won by 30, Hooper came over as very knowledgeable on TV, match was fixed, etc. Happy?
Goodbye.
Given I said literally none of that, yeah buh bye.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:05
Quote:Dorset Boy
Well I never knew the view from the stands was better than all tghe TV cameras & angles they give.
All the angles, eh? Link the angle that inarguably shows that the ball did not go forward.
The officials who were there AND definitely had access to all the angles all said it was forward. Hmm...
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:09
--Generic Spoiler Alert--
So with other results I think that makes Bath second from bottom with only Exeter (with a game in hand) below us and Sarries and Quins to come. It's all a bit grim really, but sadly I'm not really very surprised.
The lads did well in attack and it was fun to watch them chucking it about but its going to be a very long season unless we can get the front row / scrum issues sorted pretty much immediately (not sure how you do that). I'm a big fan of Obano in the loose but he is becoming a bit of a liability at scrum time, quite often see him outfoxed in the scrum recently and he pops up looking really confused about what has just happened time after time. Also love Dunns passion but he needs to play a lot smarter rather than just piling in all the time. Think that Lilley may be out of his depth on this one.
I'm finding it really hard to see the green shoots behind the black cloud at the moment frankly - the table doesn't lie and I can see us being bottom at Xmas.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
So with other results I think that makes Bath second from bottom with only Exeter (with a game in hand) below us and Sarries and Quins to come. It's all a bit grim really, but sadly I'm not really very surprised.
The lads did well in attack and it was fun to watch them chucking it about but its going to be a very long season unless we can get the front row / scrum issues sorted pretty much immediately (not sure how you do that). I'm a big fan of Obano in the loose but he is becoming a bit of a liability at scrum time, quite often see him outfoxed in the scrum recently and he pops up looking really confused about what has just happened time after time. Also love Dunns passion but he needs to play a lot smarter rather than just piling in all the time. Think that Lilley may be out of his depth on this one.
I'm finding it really hard to see the green shoots behind the black cloud at the moment frankly - the table doesn't lie and I can see us being bottom at Xmas.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:11
BT Sport extended highlights, 33:26. Ball clearly passed by Bailey behind Joseph backwards. Ball bounces forward but that is not a knock on.
I thought you were leaving?
I thought you were leaving?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:16
Quote:RinkadinkQuote:Dorset Boy
Well I never knew the view from the stands was better than all tghe TV cameras & angles they give.
All the angles, eh? Link the angle that inarguably shows that the ball did not go forward.
The officials who were there AND definitely had access to all the angles all said it was forward. Hmm...
Do you genuinely have nothing better to do on a Saturday than come on another teams board and try and pick a fight over something that is totally irrelevant now? The very fact that different people saw it differently means that it is neither inarguable nor conclusive. What we can all agree on was that it was given as forward and the game is now over.
For what its worth I think that what lost Bath the game was the 2 yellows and general lack of discipline hence the huge penalty count, not helped by an underperforming scrum. Then poor game management in the last 10 mins. Fun game though with some good rugby on show.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:21
Quote:hasta
BT Sport extended highlights, 33:26. Ball clearly passed by Bailey behind Joseph backwards. Ball bounces forward but that is not a knock on.
I thought you were leaving?
I have just watched it again and am in full agreement with hasta.
Bailey is on the 22 when he passes the ball to ground. It bounces a couple of feet behind the line (i.e. on Bath's side), therefore cannot have travelled forwards.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:23
[quote charlieboa][quote OldMarovian][quote charlieboa] also wanted to say I really like you posting on here. Insight from fans of other clubs gives really interesting balance so thanks for sticking with us. I hate it when people are hostile to other clubs fans, makes the site a poorer place[/quote]
Completely agree.
Visiting fans are welcome on here and add to the debate.
All are welcome who keep to our rules and spirit.
PG
Completely agree.
Visiting fans are welcome on here and add to the debate.
All are welcome who keep to our rules and spirit.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rinkadink (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:31
Quote:A balanced and relatively reasoned post if wrong about purpose here.BathMatt53
What we can all agree on was that it was given as forward and the game is now over.
The last bit is just the thing though, do you think a number of other posters here agree and will cease and desist with the topic?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 17:46
@charlieboa
Cheers mate. In the past season(s) I've missed the banter, chat and beers with opposition supporters at games almost as much as I've missed the actual rugby and being there with my mates. You guys have created a great friendly forum.
Cheers mate. In the past season(s) I've missed the banter, chat and beers with opposition supporters at games almost as much as I've missed the actual rugby and being there with my mates. You guys have created a great friendly forum.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 18:07
Quote:RinkadinkQuote:A balanced and relatively reasoned post if wrong about purpose here.BathMatt53
What we can all agree on was that it was given as forward and the game is now over.
The last bit is just the thing though, do you think a number of other posters here agree and will cease and desist with the topic?
You still here?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 18:14
No problem with posters from other sites coming on and giving their opinion. But only once please! Don’t keep repeating it because you”know” you’re right. Others will disagree and you’ve made your point once is enough other wise you run the risk of being seen as picking a fight and contravening the board rules.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 18:30
Posters who want a dialogue are welcome to post as often as they want.
TGK - you are right though to ask those who simply repeat the same unsubstantiated argument - that is looking for trouble.
PG
TGK - you are right though to ask those who simply repeat the same unsubstantiated argument - that is looking for trouble.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 19:09
Thanks PGT I was not trying to stifle well reasoned debate.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Peter_B (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 20:18
B**h knocked on so no try was the correct decision. Don’t be fooled by the effects of parallax and camera lenses. It was more or less level with my seat and although it went sideways it also went forward as was confirmed by the replays. Penalty count was 8 by Bristol and 17 conceded by yourselves and that I would suggest was why you lost.
The turnover count by both sides was quite high which didn’t help. Tempest wasn’t brilliant but B**h ‘s failure to roll away and playing the ball on the ground(one particularly blatantly in front of the AR) eventually caught up with you.
Peter
C'mon you Bristol Boys!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:20:19:45 by Peter_B.
The turnover count by both sides was quite high which didn’t help. Tempest wasn’t brilliant but B**h ‘s failure to roll away and playing the ball on the ground(one particularly blatantly in front of the AR) eventually caught up with you.
Peter
C'mon you Bristol Boys!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:02:20:19:45 by Peter_B.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 20:28
Paging Coochie, paging Coochie!
Look who has crawled out from under his rock after about 10 years!!!!![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
Looks like Ashton Gate has 20,000 seats on the 22 at one end.
Look who has crawled out from under his rock after about 10 years!!!!
Looks like Ashton Gate has 20,000 seats on the 22 at one end.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 21:06
Quote:Peter_B
B**h knocked on so no try was the correct decision. Don’t be fooled by the effects of parallax and camera lenses.
Interesting! How are pitch marking lines affected by parallax?
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2021 22:32
Quote:Dorset Boy
Paging Coochie, paging Coochie!
Look who has crawled out from under his rock after about 10 years!!!!
Looks like Ashton Gate has 20,000 seats on the 22 at one end.
We welcome all starry eyed bitter ‘n’ twisted br*zzl*rs with their parallax theories, DB. They have been in a parallel universe too long so a need for some leeway! All we need now is Frenchy and David Jon to get the full house!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: copester (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 07:21
As others have stated, Froward pass/knock on or not is irrelevant. A try was scored so Tempest if he had a doubt should of referred it to the TMO. He could of said onfield no try as I think there was a knock on but we had better check. Then if the TMO agrees, fair enough.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 09:30
Agree with Copester, if we have TMOs then surely they should be used for tries where there is potential doubt either way. 2 sides with bags of potential, both trying to play good rugby and both with real weaknesses. Officials that bordered on the incompetent.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 09:41
It is just bad form to blame the referee when you lose (even if he was wrong). Even the best players (and coaches) make some mistakes during a game, are you suggesting referees are any different? I have my favourite and least favourite refs, but all of them are doing their best to be fair and over a season it all pretty much averages out, but with full crowds you have to expect the normal home advantage to be resumed.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 09:53
I don't blame them. We lost because we have a lack of bulk and power combined with inadequate discipline. However, whoever (prem rugby?) is accountable for referee performance needs to look at how and when TMOs are used as it is becoming a lottery.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 10:11
I like it when referees make their own decisions and don’t constantly go to the TMO. The game gets tedious with constant reviews and personally I’d like the TMO restricted to serious foul play only.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 10:15
We absolutely should blame ourselves for the loss of another winnable game but the fact that commentators, analysts like goode and kay, plus neutral fans are suggesting we were hard done by on big calls indicates a degree of incompetence (rather than just the standard sour grapes). I feel for tempest as I think he is a good ref who was let down by his team.
The focus needs to be on sorting out the problems in our game that will continue to undermine us if not rectified but suffice to say we are probably due the rub of the green in a future game....
The focus needs to be on sorting out the problems in our game that will continue to undermine us if not rectified but suffice to say we are probably due the rub of the green in a future game....
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 10:26
Quote:BathMatt53
--Generic Spoiler Alert--
I'm a big fan of Obano in the loose but he is becoming a bit of a liability at scrum time, quite often see him outfoxed in the scrum recently and he pops up looking really confused about what has just happened time after time. Also love Dunns passion but he needs to play a lot smarter rather than just piling in all the time. Think that Lilley may be out of his depth on this one.
I'm finding it really hard to see the green shoots behind the black cloud at the moment frankly - the table doesn't lie and I can see us being bottom at Xmas.
Totally agree re obano. I am also a huge fan of his but he is getting pinged a huge amount (fairly or unfairly) and its becoming a massive issue. Schoeman isn't much of a scrummager imho and not totally sold on boyce either.
I also love Dunn but his discipline is making him a liability.
I think you have to question Lilley. He has the same players who were regularly dominant 1-2 years ago and we now struggle most games. Hatley did a great job so we take him away from that role....
I can see small green shoots but without a tight game going into a wet, windy winter it's hard to be too optimistic! Being able to play like the harlem globetrotters is only really relevant if you are in contention come march/april/may.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 11:24
Which Lilley is now a 1st team coach - sorry being very lazy but the only ones I remember with that surname were mediocre players some decades ago, and or thoroughly nice guys who had lived in Bath for generations? (p.s. I know I am being lazy but it seems its who you know not what youi know which qualifies to become a current Coach at Bath.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 11:37
I think it's Craig Lilley who is head of the academy?
Mark Lilley is scrum coach for 1sts.
Are they both chris' sons?
Mark Lilley is scrum coach for 1sts.
Are they both chris' sons?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 18:11
Quote:It is.charlieboa
I think it's Craig Lilley who is head of the academy?
Quote:Yes, they are. They were ball boys, then players (Mark at Bath, not sure about Craig), now coaches. Their Dad and I think Granddad also played for Bath.charlieboa
Are they both chris' sons?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 19:07
Chiefs fan here, just wanted to say I thought you were pretty good against Bris and didn’t deserve to lose, you were on the wrong end of some really poor refereeing decisions that ultimately cost you the game.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 19:32
So here's a suggestion to the visiting trolls, if you want to be treated like an adult and have people take your comments seriously, then be grown up enough to actually s p e l l your team’s opponents name. Otherwise go back to the playground.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 19:36
Quote:Trawling
So here's a suggestion to the visiting trolls, if you want to be treated like an adult and have people take your comments seriously, then be grown up enough to actually s p e l l your team’s opponents name. Otherwise go back to the playground.
Oh heck isn’t Bristol br*zzl*?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Broken arrow (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 21:21
Quote:Trawling
So here's a suggestion to the visiting trolls, if you want to be treated like an adult and have people take your comments seriously, then be grown up enough to actually s p e l l your team’s opponents name. Otherwise go back to the playground.
“ Posts on Bris and Tigers sites saying he was diagnosed as having had a stroke as a result of a head injury in the Bears/ Tigers game.” Recognise this quote Trawling ?. It’s yours !
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2021 23:35
Am I alone in not having a clue what is being argued about!!!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 03:09
Just watched the game (I know, I know but some of us have lives to lead).
I have seen enough.
If we can keep that lot fit and firing we'll be Champions within 5 years. We played with ambition. We played with imagination. We played with a smile on our faces (thank you, Mojo). It's been a long, long time since I saw a Bath side play like that. Yes. we made mistakes, Yes, we bombed at least 3 tries in the first half (not including Tempo's brain fart - altho it was clearly the AR that called it wrongly) but we played rugby union and it was beautiful to see. We need a second high quality front 5 but the bones of the future are clear. The no relegation season may have come along at exactly the right time for us.
My MotM - OB2. If you half closed your eyes, it was a young Danny Cipriani playing 10 for us and I doubt if that is a coincidence. The single most important thing we can do now is get Cip's signature on a long term backs coaching contract.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:04:03:36:21 by joethefanatic.
I have seen enough.
If we can keep that lot fit and firing we'll be Champions within 5 years. We played with ambition. We played with imagination. We played with a smile on our faces (thank you, Mojo). It's been a long, long time since I saw a Bath side play like that. Yes. we made mistakes, Yes, we bombed at least 3 tries in the first half (not including Tempo's brain fart - altho it was clearly the AR that called it wrongly) but we played rugby union and it was beautiful to see. We need a second high quality front 5 but the bones of the future are clear. The no relegation season may have come along at exactly the right time for us.
My MotM - OB2. If you half closed your eyes, it was a young Danny Cipriani playing 10 for us and I doubt if that is a coincidence. The single most important thing we can do now is get Cip's signature on a long term backs coaching contract.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021:10:04:03:36:21 by joethefanatic.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 04:54
Wow, that is a high level of confidence! I look at it slightly differently & feel we have at last started playing some decent attacking rugby after a whole lot of dross for a number of years. The problem, though, is the front 5 & not just the second string or maybe it’s more a question of the coach. That’s where we need Hateley.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 09:07
Admire your rose specs Joe but rugby does not work like that, the reasons we were able to play that kind of rugby is that, firstly we were able to, which is good, but more importantly the opposition let us. We had a very loose game against a poor Bristol team and under those conditions we flourished, but against Saracens...........?
Think back to the day under Ford when we cut Tigers apart at the Rec, that was dazzling backs play and we thought we were back on top, but within a short time it all fell apart. After the semi in the WC everybody thought England the equal to NZ, then what happened?
If you look at teams that enjoy long term success they have a playing structure that allows everyone in their squad to come in when necessary and know exactly what they are doing and they have developed winning games in both the dry and wet.
I don't see that kind of team structure at Bath, for years, come the wet and windy winter our game fell apart only to resume in the spring fell apart, that does not happen with recent Saracens/Exter teams. Sure we will get exciting games and many false dawns but if you have to wait 5 years it never comes
Think back to the day under Ford when we cut Tigers apart at the Rec, that was dazzling backs play and we thought we were back on top, but within a short time it all fell apart. After the semi in the WC everybody thought England the equal to NZ, then what happened?
If you look at teams that enjoy long term success they have a playing structure that allows everyone in their squad to come in when necessary and know exactly what they are doing and they have developed winning games in both the dry and wet.
I don't see that kind of team structure at Bath, for years, come the wet and windy winter our game fell apart only to resume in the spring fell apart, that does not happen with recent Saracens/Exter teams. Sure we will get exciting games and many false dawns but if you have to wait 5 years it never comes
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 09:20
I think rugby does work like that if you want it to and what I saw was us willing to give it a try. That's all we can really ask at this stage.
The Ford years comparison is interesting. That style of play was extremely structured and pre-planned. What we did against Briz was much more off the cuff and fluid and that's what was so exciting. We played what was in front of us, not what we'd drawn on a whiteboard. We weren't perfect but we'll get better.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
The Ford years comparison is interesting. That style of play was extremely structured and pre-planned. What we did against Briz was much more off the cuff and fluid and that's what was so exciting. We played what was in front of us, not what we'd drawn on a whiteboard. We weren't perfect but we'll get better.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: LSAR (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 09:20
Thought it was a good performance. Even with the poor officiating, we were in it till the end just panicked a bit in the last five minutes . We have some great players in the squad, I'm encouraged and believe we will be fighting for top four come the end of the season. Not saying we will make it but really feel we will be nearer the top than bottom.
.
One thing is there seems to be this jump to blame the forward coaching (not talking about Hooper, that's a different issue) when we have a bad day or even just a few iffy sets at the scrum and/or line out. For me the players are all seasoned pro's some internationals, who have been exposed since young children to knowledgeable home grown and international coaches. If in the game it goes wrong or we are munched, Its probably as much to do with the opposition just being a bit better or dubious 50/50 calls by the ref as any thing else.
I doubt there's much the players are not hearing or are working on in training from the coaches that they could get from any others.
.
One thing is there seems to be this jump to blame the forward coaching (not talking about Hooper, that's a different issue) when we have a bad day or even just a few iffy sets at the scrum and/or line out. For me the players are all seasoned pro's some internationals, who have been exposed since young children to knowledgeable home grown and international coaches. If in the game it goes wrong or we are munched, Its probably as much to do with the opposition just being a bit better or dubious 50/50 calls by the ref as any thing else.
I doubt there's much the players are not hearing or are working on in training from the coaches that they could get from any others.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 09:35
Quote:LSAR
One thing is there seems to be this jump to blame the forward coaching (not talking about Hooper, that's a different issue) when we have a bad day or even just a few iffy sets at the scrum and/or line out. For me the players are all seasoned pro's some internationals, who have been exposed since young children to knowledgeable home grown and international coaches. If in the game it goes wrong or we are munched, Its probably as much to do with the opposition just being a bit better or dubious 50/50 calls by the ref as any thing else.
I doubt there's much the players are not hearing or are working on in training from the coaches that they could get from any others.
We have gone from a very strong forward orientated (but boring) team last season to one that has struggled in both games. It not either like we could blame the 2nd / 3rd choice tight 5 in the Bristol game (unlike vs Newcastle). Imagine just how good those backs would be off a decent platform rather than having to create in their own 22 all the time because of getting pinged off the pitch.
Whether it is the players off form, not doing as they are told or doing as they are told but its not working, it definitely needs sorting very quickly.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Rampant (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 10:03
'nuff said..
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 10:15
IMHO our forwards are a huge issue and unfortunately as well documented in the media our recruitment has been "questionable" *(I think that is how LD referred to it on BT Sport) over the past few years.
Our scrum is at best naïve and appears to be poorly coached or they are painting a very poor picture to the officials.
I personally believe both Fox and Bailey are doing really well - starved of exposure last season they have been thrown into the firing line - Fox is having to deal with ball shooting out or going back on his heels (again due to lack of ball carriers) - Bailey has shown what he can do if he receives good quick ball he can run on to - but most of the time he is receiving slow ball again on his heels.
The part I really do not understand with Hoops and the Transfer Team - and this is really not rocket science and most on here have identified it - The lack of a ball carrier since Attwood left but they just fail to address it along with a number of other positions. The game on Friday was calling out for Coetzee.
The other issue I just do not understand is our refusal to appoint a defence coach? I am just absolutely bemused by it.
We are bottom of the league (Yes only 3 games gone) for a reason - our fixture list leading upto the turn of the year is probably the most challenging you could get and despite Friday showing the players can play with pride and passion without parity in the scrum and the amount of penalties we are conceding it is a big ask. Hoops passion in his berating of the officials shows a man under obvious real pressure with no real prospect of alleviating it any time soon.
We have some very talented young players born and bred B&W however this is a professional sport - we will struggle to keep them if this malaise is allowed to continue - reports already of Bristol possibly looking to prise Max O away - only a matter of time unless the management team acts and acts now.
Our scrum is at best naïve and appears to be poorly coached or they are painting a very poor picture to the officials.
I personally believe both Fox and Bailey are doing really well - starved of exposure last season they have been thrown into the firing line - Fox is having to deal with ball shooting out or going back on his heels (again due to lack of ball carriers) - Bailey has shown what he can do if he receives good quick ball he can run on to - but most of the time he is receiving slow ball again on his heels.
The part I really do not understand with Hoops and the Transfer Team - and this is really not rocket science and most on here have identified it - The lack of a ball carrier since Attwood left but they just fail to address it along with a number of other positions. The game on Friday was calling out for Coetzee.
The other issue I just do not understand is our refusal to appoint a defence coach? I am just absolutely bemused by it.
We are bottom of the league (Yes only 3 games gone) for a reason - our fixture list leading upto the turn of the year is probably the most challenging you could get and despite Friday showing the players can play with pride and passion without parity in the scrum and the amount of penalties we are conceding it is a big ask. Hoops passion in his berating of the officials shows a man under obvious real pressure with no real prospect of alleviating it any time soon.
We have some very talented young players born and bred B&W however this is a professional sport - we will struggle to keep them if this malaise is allowed to continue - reports already of Bristol possibly looking to prise Max O away - only a matter of time unless the management team acts and acts now.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 10:49
Yes, we need a specialist defence coach like Leicester & Hateley to get back to sorting out the forwards. Coaches DO make a difference as can be seen with the improvement of our attacking game already. And yes, we need to sort these issues out if we want to hold on to the likes of Ojomo.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 10:55
It is strange how long our period of mediocrity has gone on for, given the wholesale changes in ownership, management, and the whole team/squad, again and again...
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 11:04
It's almost like being a regular in the top 4 of any sporting league is really, really hard.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 11:10
Quote:Which Tyler
It's almost like being a regular in the top 4 of any sporting league is really, really hard.
It's easier for some than others...
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 11:16
I have no idea if it is possible, but i'd be trying to get the weekend's ref to come in on Monday or tuesday to talk the forwards through the issues he saw at scrum time, and do that for a few weeks. It is clear the picture being painted by the front rows is not to the referees' liking.
On the crouch call, our front row crouched, but it was usually 3 or 4 seconds before Sinckler went into the crouch. He dictated the pace of the scrums. (IMO he was very lucky not to get free kicked for those delays, but .....). I'm sure controlling that timing gave Bristol an advantage.
So many scrum penalties seem a lottery, but you really have to paint the best picture possible in the first 2 or 3 scrums, because the referees then predominantly go with the side who's picture they liked from there on in.
On the crouch call, our front row crouched, but it was usually 3 or 4 seconds before Sinckler went into the crouch. He dictated the pace of the scrums. (IMO he was very lucky not to get free kicked for those delays, but .....). I'm sure controlling that timing gave Bristol an advantage.
So many scrum penalties seem a lottery, but you really have to paint the best picture possible in the first 2 or 3 scrums, because the referees then predominantly go with the side who's picture they liked from there on in.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 11:29
As others have observed, McNally and Underhill going off really depowered us. I suspect that was a fitness issue (particularly for McNally) but it really shows the lack of depth we have at lock.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 11:55
Are we the only club to not have a dedicated and experienced defence coach?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 12:09
Hats is head coach and defence coach in the way that many clubs have a combined head and forwards coach.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 12:31
Quote:Dorset Boy
On the crouch call, our front row crouched, but it was usually 3 or 4 seconds before Sinckler went into the crouch. He dictated the pace of the scrums. (IMO he was very lucky not to get free kicked for those delays, but .....). I'm sure controlling that timing gave Bristol an advantage.
The likes of marler and sinckler do a v good job of 'managing' refs when it comes to scrums.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 12:46
Quote:OutsideBath
Are we the only club to not have a dedicated and experienced defence coach?
The defence (other than maul defence) wasn't the issue on friday as you would have seen if you had watched it. We need a dedicated disciplinary / thinking coach if anything (although it could be argued that's Katie Warriner) to get rid of the brainf art s.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 13:07
We’ve never been good at managing the ref I don’t think it comes naturally to Ewells. Hooper said in his post match interview we are going to be talking to the ref about what we were being penalised for at scrum time. He seemed more miffed about that than the 2 absolute howlers. Hopefully there will be some enlightenment.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 14:15
Quote:hasta
Hats is head coach and defence coach in the way that many clubs have a combined head and forwards coach.
Yes, I think that is generally known but is nevertheless a puzzle. Hats built his reputation as a forwards coach so would it not make more sense if he were head coach & forwards coach & someone with the appropriate expertise looking after defence.Judging by the decline of the forwards effectiveness since Lilley
had responsibility you have to question his influence.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 14:19
Questions certainly need to be answered about the overall effectiveness of the coach for sure.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 17:27
Quote:hasta
Hats is head coach and defence coach in the way that many clubs have a combined head and forwards coach.
Maybe but a quick web scan shows Tigers, Exeter, Bristol and Wasps have specialist defence coach and Quins have a lineout/defence coach
Are we the only club to have defence as part of the HC role? To my thinking defence needs a specialist skills/mindset focus. The HC role brings different challenges and requires a different type of person
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: A (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 17:55
Ewels isn't an effective captain, Hooper isn't an effective dor, the medical team can't identify injury prone players at the medical before we sign them, the psychologist cant change the ingrained mindset, the club sycophants say it will all be OK tomorrow just wait a bit longer, and the paying fans gotta lap it up.
But we can all see Stuart Hoopers bottom!
But we can all see Stuart Hoopers bottom!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 18:07
You forgot to mention the ball boys and bar staff
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 19:07
Quote:Why sycophants? Who are those with a more optimistic view sucking up to? Anonymous posters on a message board seeing some reasons to be hopeful... I'm not one myself, but good on them and if your posts are to be taken seriously I'm glad I'm not as despondent as you seem to be.NotColin
Ewels isn't an effective captain, Hooper isn't an effective dor, the medical team can't identify injury prone players at the medical before we sign them, the psychologist cant change the ingrained mindset, the club sycophants say it will all be OK tomorrow just wait a bit longer, and the paying fans gotta lap it up.
But we can all see Stuart Hoopers bottom!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 19:11
Apologies, re-reading your post you mean people within the club, not fans. Not sure who you're referring to though, and if you mean positive noises from the top, what else would you expect?
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2021 22:15
But we can all see Stuart Hooper’s bottom
FTFY
FTFY
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2021 21:18
Austin not pulling any punches on highlights programme.
Bath were 'massively, massively robbed' by 'terrible officiating'.
Obviously lol disagreed. Tbf I agreed that we lost due scrum and discipline. His point that implied the ref was fine to ignore the double offside blocking for the winning try (as pointed out by kay on the Saturday coverage) as he 'had a picture in his mind' was daft though.
Bath were 'massively, massively robbed' by 'terrible officiating'.
Obviously lol disagreed. Tbf I agreed that we lost due scrum and discipline. His point that implied the ref was fine to ignore the double offside blocking for the winning try (as pointed out by kay on the Saturday coverage) as he 'had a picture in his mind' was daft though.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 06/10/2021 08:35
A ridiculous assertion by Dallaglio as the "picture" he referred to was action at "previous driving mauls".
An offence once (or even twice) in no way makes the same offence certain again on a subsequent occasion.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
An offence once (or even twice) in no way makes the same offence certain again on a subsequent occasion.
P G Tips
Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/10/2021 09:01
The problem is we all know that the officials were appalling as a team - It is unfair to blame just Tempest. My view is that because we overuse the TMO, referees have become deskilled and reliant that the TMO will pick up on things such as Randall's knock on or the deliberate obstruction that both Ben Kay and Austin Healy picked up on. The Max O disallowed try was called by the Touch Judge - the same Touch Judge who failed to pick up on Yann Thomas "boring" in at a right angle on every scrum and every other offence. As some have mentioned Sinkler, Marler and I would add Genge like to dominate officials and call the shots especially at scrum time - that is a question for the officials to address and Tempest like others before him failed to do so.
We need to move on now - that game has gone and the refereeing body will do nothing to address the performance of it's officials. I base that on the fact Karl Dickson is still officiating at the top level despite so many shocking performances - I have to say Friday's was right up there with some of his worst.
We need to address the "Elephant" in our squad - the lack of forward dominance - we play probably the best forward dominant side in the premiership a week on Sunday. We need to bottle up all that frustration coupled with our only ball carrier Coetzee and let rip for the entire 80 minutes + - if ever there were a team that if you drop your intensity punish you it is Sarries.
What I personally love and hate about Sarries is that they play exactly the same way - they are just exceptional at their style of play - aggressive defence, good scrum & lineout, Billy V and Mako V ball carrying and a good kicking game - they are relentless and just wait for your errors - that is where we have to improve - Oh yes and they are excellent at manipulating the officials!
We need to move on now - that game has gone and the refereeing body will do nothing to address the performance of it's officials. I base that on the fact Karl Dickson is still officiating at the top level despite so many shocking performances - I have to say Friday's was right up there with some of his worst.
We need to address the "Elephant" in our squad - the lack of forward dominance - we play probably the best forward dominant side in the premiership a week on Sunday. We need to bottle up all that frustration coupled with our only ball carrier Coetzee and let rip for the entire 80 minutes + - if ever there were a team that if you drop your intensity punish you it is Sarries.
What I personally love and hate about Sarries is that they play exactly the same way - they are just exceptional at their style of play - aggressive defence, good scrum & lineout, Billy V and Mako V ball carrying and a good kicking game - they are relentless and just wait for your errors - that is where we have to improve - Oh yes and they are excellent at manipulating the officials!
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 06/10/2021 10:23
I would not disagree with any of that Ali- of course we need to move on and you have I think identified our weaknesses and reason for defeat.
However, Dallaglio's comment and the point you make about referee authorities doing nothing to address performance of officials are sad statements about our game.
For Friday's performance (and the reasons behind it that you identify and Dallaglio referred to) to become standard practice is a huge backward step for the game.
PG
However, Dallaglio's comment and the point you make about referee authorities doing nothing to address performance of officials are sad statements about our game.
For Friday's performance (and the reasons behind it that you identify and Dallaglio referred to) to become standard practice is a huge backward step for the game.
PG
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 06/10/2021 10:58
Quote:Ali1969
Sinkler, Marler and I would add Genge like to dominate officials and call the shots especially at scrum time
All 3 are established Internationals. I guess if you're a referee 'guessing' at scrum-time, there's going to be some sort of conscious or unconscious assumption that the International prop is the stronger ... and along with that, they will be that bit more authoritative/confident in their dealings with refs.
All a bit 'chicken and egg', of course.
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 06/10/2021 17:34
Quote:OptimistQuote:Ali1969
Sinkler, Marler and I would add Genge like to dominate officials and call the shots especially at scrum time
All 3 are established Internationals. I guess if you're a referee 'guessing' at scrum-time, there's going to be some sort of conscious or unconscious assumption that the International prop is the stronger ... and along with that, they will be that bit more authoritative/confident in their dealings with refs.
All a bit 'chicken and egg', of course.
Although our starting props were internationals, too.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: LSAR (IP Logged)
Date: 07/10/2021 21:29
I always smile when I hear the ref telling the front rows how to scrummage.. I'd be really surprised if any of the current top English refs have ever competitively scrummaged in the front row .
Re: INTO THE BEAR PIT. BRISTOL BEARS v BATH. Team's Up!
Posted by: Bath Blues (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2021 23:28
That game cheered me up. 🔴🔵🟤🟢⚫
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