NEW BROOM. BATH’S NEW COACHING TEAM

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:08:01:08:39:41 by CoochieCoo.

So JP Ferreira spent time at Bridgend RFC, I think this guy might be more influential than we realise!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Good article, although I don't agree with "To the surprise of many..."

I think it would be more accurate to say "To the surprise of a few vocal contributors to this website..."

Van Graan is a deep thinker and he doesn't act rashly. He appoints teams of coaches and then sets the strategy and manages the coaches and the players. I believe he will reach his own conclusions about the merits of the coaches and the players and anybody who doesn't measure up will be gone and replaced with someone he judges more suitable. So he won't judge people on what has gone before, he'll give them a chance to show that they deserve to be where they are.

Thanks PG for bringing all that info together in one easy to read article. Hope they brought some four leaved clovers with them!

Quote:

Malco
Good article, although I don't agree with "To the surprise of many..."
I think it would be more accurate to say "To the surprise of a few vocal contributors to this website..."

I don't agree Malco, certainly everyone that I have spoken to was surprised that they had survived the worst season in Bath's history. Add to that most rugby commentators, podcasters and journalists. I can't think of another example where a team that should be qualifying for Europe ending up bottom hasn't resulted in the top coaches / DORs leaving (rugby, football or anything). I guess the difference here is that individuals like Hooper wanted to stay despite the demotion, whereas I would guess that most have mutually agreed that it's best to move on?

In fact I would say that you are perhaps the only person that I am aware of that is not surprised.

Whether or not getting rid would (or would not) have been justified I think that its fair to say in the cut-throat world of pro sport it's a surprise?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Actually Malco, when I wrote those words I was thinking as much of some TV pundits (some of whom actually played against Hoops and Hats) as of those vocal on 'ere.

I agree with you though in thinking JvG will make his own mind up after working with his coaching team for a while.

PG

'Ere we go again, as it were. I'm not v excited about the new appointments tbh, there have been too many coaching resets in the last 10-12yr that haven't delivered bar MF and the diamond approach that then imploded. I shall just wait, watch and see what develops but this feels like the last time for me. I won't be renewing my ST if we fail again and by fail I mean finishing outside the top 8.

The performance of Borthwick/Tigers and the change in English cricket is evidence of what can be achieved in a relatively short period of time. I sincerely hope JvG et al have a similar impact at Bath...

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My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

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P G Tips
Actually Malco, when I wrote those words I was thinking as much of some TV pundits (some of whom actually played against Hoops and Hats) as of those vocal on 'ere.
I agree with you though in thinking JvG will make his own mind up after working with his coaching team for a while.

PG

Pundits always have their own agenda.

It doesn't matter if it is sport, business or any other walk of life. You solve a problem by identifying where the weaknesses lie and resolving them directly. You don't heal a broken leg by cutting off the patient's head. We brought in a physician and the physician specified a cure. We seem to have decided that we don't like some of the bitter medicine prescribed and have sacked the physician. Without any further investigation there would be no sense at all in reverting back to a plan of cutting off the patient's head.

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Malco

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P G Tips
Actually Malco, when I wrote those words I was thinking as much of some TV pundits (some of whom actually played against Hoops and Hats) as of those vocal on 'ere.
I agree with you though in thinking JvG will make his own mind up after working with his coaching team for a while.

PG

Pundits always have their own agenda.

It doesn't matter if it is sport, business or any other walk of life. You solve a problem by identifying where the weaknesses lie and resolving them directly. You don't heal a broken leg by cutting off the patient's head. We brought in a physician and the physician specified a cure. We seem to have decided that we don't like some of the bitter medicine prescribed and have sacked the physician. Without any further investigation there would be no sense at all in reverting back to a plan of cutting off the patient's head.

Without wanting to open the whole debate again in another yet another thread I think that this would be a good comparison if we were talking about getting rid of the cleaner or the Bath Rugby tailor (i.e. someone wholly unrealated to matters of squad size, shape and team performance). We aren't, so the head and leg analogy doesn't work for me. Losing the DOR and / or head coach is (rightly or wrongly) a very common thing in pro sport when a team unexpectedly comes bottom, chopping off a head for leg problem is unheard of (I hope).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

That's a very simplistic analogy that simply doesn't apply here. In this instance had the patient had his glasses on he wouldn't have tripped over and broken his leg in the first place!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
That's a very simplistic analogy that simply doesn't apply here. In this instance had the patient had his glasses on he wouldn't have tripped over and broken his leg in the first place!

I completely disagree with this.

In my view the coaches can only coach the players they are given.

For the last few years our recruitment and retention have been woeful. The squad has been far too thin in key areas and then, to top that off, the top class players we do have have all been consistently unavailable.

The coaches have been dealt a losing hand.

For what it's worth I think this is largely still true and I think it will take 3-5 years to completely remodel the squad. Until that happens I don't think any coach will make us competitive in terms of winning trophies.

We have been in this cycle for 15 years and we have seen no signs of it being broken. When Bruce Craig resigned as Chairman I was optimistic that we might finally be seeing the change required. Now I feel a lot less optimistic.

If Van Graan is given the freedom to remodel the squad I think we could be at the start of better things. Changing the coaches and keeping the same squad is absolutely shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Quote:

Malco

Quote:

P G Tips
Actually Malco, when I wrote those words I was thinking as much of some TV pundits (some of whom actually played against Hoops and Hats) as of those vocal on 'ere.
I agree with you though in thinking JvG will make his own mind up after working with his coaching team for a while.

PG

You don't heal a broken leg by cutting off the patient's head...

Are you suggesting we cut off the patients leg instead?

In any case, whatever we all personally think the reasons are, it is surprising that the two highest levels of management related to performance have survived a year of unprecedented bad performance. Plenty have left for less (including in our recent history).

I don't disagree that the common factor in the past 15 years has been the CEO and owner, however, also present over that period have been SH and NH (albeit with a gap). They have singularly failed to spot that we needed a defence coach for 3 years under SH's tenure if not longer. That is the shortsightedness I'm referring to.
Actually their failure is a blessing had we had a defence coach we wouldn't have conceded 107 tries, finished in the bottom third of the table and not held an inquiry (EdG) into our incompetence.

I admire your defence of these individuals but sadly Malco I believe a trip to the optician might also be beneficial for yourself in spotting these factors.
There is a point (that I have repeated before) that occurs when there is nothing new to be heard from longstanding coaches.
New blood may well say exactly the same but deliver the message in a way that is interpreted differently. I'm hoping that JvG and JPF are those messengers and effect chant as witnessed though the England cricket team and Leicester Tigers.
We live in hope as the expression goes.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

The Bear

Quote:

Malco

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P G Tips
Actually Malco, when I wrote those words I was thinking as much of some TV pundits (some of whom actually played against Hoops and Hats) as of those vocal on 'ere.
I agree with you though in thinking JvG will make his own mind up after working with his coaching team for a while.

PG

You don't heal a broken leg by cutting off the patient's head...

Are you suggesting we cut off the patients leg instead?

In any case, whatever we all personally think the reasons are, it is surprising that the two highest levels of management related to performance have survived a year of unprecedented bad performance. Plenty have left for less (including in our recent history).

I'm not suggesting anything.

My view, which has been influenced by people who are a lot more close to what is taking place than I am, has been for a long time that the problem exists at a level above the coaching team and that the Director of Rugby was a sock puppet who had little real world influence on what was taking place.

The resignation of the Chairman, the appointment of a new Head Coach and the retention of Hooper and Hatley in different roles has indicated to me that this was the correct view. Hooper is going back to doing what he did before, which he actually was very successful at. Hatley likewise. The problems were not caused by Hooper and Hatley and therefore arbitrarily getting rid of them wouldn't solve the problems.

If Van Graan takes a different view he will get rid of them and I would have no argument with that. If Van Graan is not given the latitude to do that then I suspect he won't be around for long.

Quote:

shipwrecked
They have singularly failed to spot that we needed a defence coach for 3 years under SH's tenure if not longer. That is the shortsightedness I'm referring to.
Actually their failure is a blessing had we had a defence coach we wouldn't have conceded 107 tries, finished in the bottom third of the table and not held an inquiry (EdG) into our incompetence.

Why do you assume that the lack of a defence coach was their decision?

Why would you think that this was not a decision made at a higher level?

Quote:

Malco

Quote:

shipwrecked
They have singularly failed to spot that we needed a defence coach for 3 years under SH's tenure if not longer. That is the shortsightedness I'm referring to.
Actually their failure is a blessing had we had a defence coach we wouldn't have conceded 107 tries, finished in the bottom third of the table and not held an inquiry (EdG) into our incompetence.

Why do you assume that the lack of a defence coach was their decision?

Why would you think that this was not a decision made at a higher level?

Because they were the DoR and HC and the need for a defence coach is squarely in their remit. If the decision was taken at a higher level then we'd need to see some evidence of it to be convinced.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic

Quote:

Malco

Quote:

shipwrecked
They have singularly failed to spot that we needed a defence coach for 3 years under SH's tenure if not longer. That is the shortsightedness I'm referring to.
Actually their failure is a blessing had we had a defence coach we wouldn't have conceded 107 tries, finished in the bottom third of the table and not held an inquiry (EdG) into our incompetence.

Why do you assume that the lack of a defence coach was their decision?

Why would you think that this was not a decision made at a higher level?

Because they were the DoR and HC and the need for a defence coach is squarely in their remit. If the decision was taken at a higher level then we'd need to see some evidence of it to be convinced.

If decisions were being taken at a higher level any self respecting DOR and/or HC would have quit citing interference in their role.

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OutsideBath

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joethefanatic

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Malco

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shipwrecked
They have singularly failed to spot that we needed a defence coach for 3 years under SH's tenure if not longer. That is the shortsightedness I'm referring to.
Actually their failure is a blessing had we had a defence coach we wouldn't have conceded 107 tries, finished in the bottom third of the table and not held an inquiry (EdG) into our incompetence.

Why do you assume that the lack of a defence coach was their decision?

Why would you think that this was not a decision made at a higher level?

Because they were the DoR and HC and the need for a defence coach is squarely in their remit. If the decision was taken at a higher level then we'd need to see some evidence of it to be convinced.

If decisions were being taken at a higher level any self respecting DOR and/or HC would have quit citing interference in their role.

So we are to conclude, absent a smoking gun, that either Hoops and Hats have limited self respect or that it was their decision. Occam's Razor is being sharpened as we speak.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Good article again PGT thanks. Yes there was universal surprise in the media and social media ‘ere and elsewhere, that Hoops remained as DoR in December when JvG was announced as Head Coach but this was changed to General Manager when EdG departed giving complete control to JvG as Head of Rugby. Maybe this was one of the EdG parting suggestions the Club implemented!

I agree that JvG did want Hoops, as he is an invaluable asset for the pathway front as well as to help JvG on such matters as the Salary Cap and PL regulations etc.

As long as JvG is given the reins and resources to do his job without interference, I have every confidence that we will rise again.

I was surprised that they stayed in place and I will be surprised if they are both here in 6 months, maybe 1 of them

Am I reading the latest report right? We are to appoint a non executive chairman and Tarquin is going to have autonomous power as CEO?

Please God no. Please say I have read this wrong!!!

Its a poorly written article - so unclear if that is the meaning or if Tarquin steps up to Chairman.

PG

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P G Tips
Tarquin steps up to Chairman.
PG

Nooooooooooooooooooo.........................!!!!!

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
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I'm with PGT, I wouldn't get too excercised about it all yet.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

Ali1969
Am I reading the latest report right? We are to appoint a non executive chairman and Tarquin is going to have autonomous power as CEO?
Please God no. Please say I have read this wrong!!!

You are reading it right, a Non-Exec Chairman is yet to be appointed. The article I read also reported there are only two directors listed, TMcD and BC. As Liam Gallagher has opined recently, as you were...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Is there a policy of secrecy regarding JvG's start at the club and whether there have been any sessions, I know its soon but a bit of news would be interesting?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

Quote:

shipwrecked
Is there a policy of secrecy regarding JvG's start at the club and whether there have been any sessions, I know its soon but a bit of news would be interesting?

The club have put up some pictures on the Facebook page of the squad back in training today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:11:15:00:51 by ShortyinBurnham.

No. Not a secret. His start date 1 July and squad pre-season start 11 July announced a while ago.

PG

Answering my own question: Who is in the little black book JvG?




Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

A list of every available 4 and 5.......!!!

Quote:

Malco
Changing the coaches and keeping the same squad is absolutely shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Surely, the whole point of appointing a new coaching team is an acceptance that the previous coaching team wasn't getting enough out of the players at their disposal? If that weren't the case - ie the coaching team was actually doing an amazing job in getting the most out of some very poor materials, you would keep that coaching team?

We very rarely put out a team that - on paper - looks poor, IMO.

1st on the agenda this season is stopping those games where we concede 40, 50 or 60 points. I don't see that we need a lot of new players to do that, it feels like coaching, morale and leadership.

When we have more matches where scoring ~20 points ourselves means winning, we will see Bath climb the table again. Sounds simple!

Quote:

B4thB4ck
1st on the agenda this season is stopping those games where we concede 40, 50 or 60 points. I don't see that we need a lot of new players to do that, it feels like coaching, morale and leadership.
When we have more matches where scoring ~20 points ourselves means winning, we will see Bath climb the table again. Sounds simple!

I agree, success is built on defence and JPF is key to Bath's success this season. I'm not sure even with the introduction of Brent van Rensburg last season we saw much benefit. Several games were lost by small margins last season I expect those loses to become wins this season.

It would also be nice to play the full 80 minutes!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Theres no reason why JVG and/or a decent coaching team shouldn't get bath into the top 8, even 6 with the current squad, surely even Malco doesnt think the team/squad has been performing at the sum of its parts. Even if bruce & Tarquin interfere in recruitment they arent responsible for the performance of the matchday squad.

Quote:

Optimist
Surely, the whole point of appointing a new coaching team is an acceptance that the previous coaching team wasn't getting enough out of the players at their disposal?

The last Bath employee to suggest that walked away/was asked to leave after the Owner made it clear he was hanging onto the Coaches/personnel in question.

As you say I think (not scientific I appreciate, just anecdotally) the vast majority of supporters at other clubs would say that you already have a quality squad. It has holes for sure, so does every club, but over all its quality. That it has struggled is genuinely bewildering although I do think you've been unusually badly impacted by injuries in the past couple of season.

Here's to the new Head Coach and a good season ahead for Bath and its rugby Supporters

[www.somersetlive.co.uk] - Popular with the Fans, apparently.

I've watched a few of the club pre-season videos and there seems a marked contrast in coaching style already. If I had to use one term to describe it I would say 'more business-like'

Last year I recall the outdoor presentation from Williams sounded nice but player attitude, on reflection was relaxed - certainly JJ looked very chilled out. There was a lot of action with ball in hand, offloads etc that I got quite excited about but as we know rarely materialised on the pitch

This year, the early session was indoors and appears more focused. The early action more strength orientated

What do others think?

For me, hard to tell at this early stage, gaz, but I know what you mean and hope you're right.

I, too, last year was excited by the Williams stuff. The big screen outside under the trees in the sun. The relaxed vibe. The scoreboard game vs the style game. Loved the sound of all that. But it was built on ridiculously shaky foundations (awful fitness and injuries, non-existent defence, soft forwards).

So before we tack on all of the "top two inches" stuff, we need to get the fundamentals in place. That means a lot of fitness, skills work and focus on structure, especially in the set piece and defence. A huge summer for Hatley, focusing on getting the best out of the forwards, and JPF, who needs to start again, build from the ground up with our defence.

So agree gaz I'd like to think that there is a more business-like approach, which basically means a lot of hard, focused work! Having said that, I hope Don "The Don" Macpherson is in and around the squad. He could just be our best signing of the off season.

Totally agree with above posts - tough love needed - we need to be fitter, faster and more resilient both mentally and physically and with a stronger mental strength factored into all of that I am sure we will see a reduction in petty/niggly injuries.

The only negative I have is non rugby related but as we all know that can affect the rugby side and that is the fiasco of the board - I cannot see past the "elephant" in the room - the thought of Tarquin "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PLAYING SIDE OF THE CLUB" McDonald being in autonomous control of the entire club with Bruce and A.N. Other as Non Executive Chairpersons. To me it sounds like nothing has changed - and that worries me as it will the likes of Dave Attwood and others.

I pray it does not but wow we appoint a neutral Chairman following the total failure of the board and the club in total crisis - in he comes and then within 6 months he has gone and oh guess what we have re-appointed the same people who caused the issue in the first place - that is how it reads to me - I just pray they leave JVG alone.

Maybe Ali but at the moment it really sounds and looks like JvG is in the driving seat for how the coaching will be delivered and supported. So, I'm prepared to wait and see if that continues into the playing side as we enter the season and then into recruitment

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woodpecker

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CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

As they say , a fool and his money are easily parted , presumably that must also apply to muppets .

Interesting piece in the DT where JvG basically says he's changing everything but also that he thinks you have players who could be/will be stars when given the chance. Seems pretty positive.

Quote:

OldMarovian
Interesting piece in the DT where JvG basically says he's changing everything but also that he thinks you have players who could be/will be stars when given the chance. Seems pretty positive.

Can you put some of it with link (even if we cant get in)

Try this, on the understanding you share the salient points from your subscription!

JvG's plans


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Try this, on the understanding you share the salient points from your subscription!
JvG's plans

The most salient point in the article is that he's saying exactly what we've been saying on 'ERE for the last 2 seasons. Which is sort of encouraging.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic

Quote:

shipwrecked
Try this, on the understanding you share the salient points from your subscription!
JvG's plans

The most salient point in the article is that he's saying exactly what we've been saying on 'ERE for the last 2 seasons. Which is sort of encouraging.

Which is what Joe for clarity?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked

Quote:

joethefanatic

Quote:

shipwrecked
Try this, on the understanding you share the salient points from your subscription!
JvG's plans

The most salient point in the article is that he's saying exactly what we've been saying on 'ERE for the last 2 seasons. Which is sort of encouraging.

Which is what Joe for clarity?

That we have very good players who just need to be much better organized.

That we have too many injuries and re-injuries.

That our basic skills need improvement.

That our general fitness needs to be much better.

All of which should be eminently achievable by an effective coaching team (me reading between the lines).

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:27:00:11:32 by joethefanatic.

Cheers Joe, did he say what he thought about Brexit by any chance?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Cheers Joe, did he say what he thought about Brexit by any chance?

Tight-lipped on that topic, I'm afraid.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Whilst he us stating the bleeding obvious it's reassuring as that wasn't happening last few years.

Good he recognises the scale of the challenge and the building blocks are physicality and defence (as he thinks we should have plenty of attacking threat)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:07:27:08:19:39 by charlieboa.

I thought Lilley and Davis were leaving at the end of last season as announced in February? They are still on the offy coaching list? Have I missed this?

adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.

Quote:

shipwrecked

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joethefanatic

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shipwrecked
Try this, on the understanding you share the salient points from your subscription!
JvG's plans

The most salient point in the article is that he's saying exactly what we've been saying on 'ERE for the last 2 seasons. Which is sort of encouraging.

Which is what Joe for clarity?

First para - need to improve contact, mauling, tackling, carrying, calling, reputation....

New coach's comments on fitness, skills etc, etc just point up the previous coaching teams abject failure in every respect of Bath's game.

Quote:

copester
I thought Lilley and Davis were leaving at the end of last season as announced in February? They are still on the offy coaching list? Have I missed this?

That was my assumption at the time but listed a few weeks ago as coaches for next season.

Imagine they are seen as decent prospects promoted far too early in amongst a coaching set up v light on experience overall.

With relatively old heads like jvg, jpf and mad dog coming in the balance feels a lot better. Sure lils can learn off Hatley who should have more focus and clarity in his role. Similarly think Davis should enjoy working with mad dog.

Quote:

rainbow
New coach's comments on fitness, skills etc, etc just point up the previous coaching teams abject failure in every respect of Bath's game.

But haven't you still got all the old coaching team there? Is this this "blaming" of the old set up (while still there) going to cause an issue?

It seems, from outside, that you've brought in a new man that feels the old team weren't upto it. But then not allowed him to remove the deadwood. Also, it seems that deadwood got a person trying to sort things out (the old chairman, Ed?) removed.

Seems a bit of an odd situation imho, but fingers crossed you beat Wuss to 12th this year!

Extracts:
"That defence coach JP Ferreira has joined Van Graan at the Rec shows where his priority lies in the great Bath rebuild. “The number one reason that I brought JP in was that the most important thing was fixing the defence,” Van Graan added. “We have to make sure we improve our defence dramatically.”"

“I started off with contact skills,” he said. “Contact is the action which happens the most in the game, so improving our ball-carrying, our individual tackling, our cleaning, our mauling, our maul defence.”

Those areas, however, are just the start of a long list that needs addressing.

“We’ve changed our whole calling system, the way Bath operated before, because I believe we needed that change of direction. That’s going to take time to bed in,” Van Graan explained.

If you were involved in the previous coaching team in any way thats hugely embarrassing anyway thats past.

Charlie Ewels is out for the season basically.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Jim H

Quote:

rainbow
New coach's comments on fitness, skills etc, etc just point up the previous coaching teams abject failure in every respect of Bath's game.

But haven't you still got all the old coaching team there? Is this this "blaming" of the old set up (while still there) going to cause an issue?

It seems, from outside, that you've brought in a new man that feels the old team weren't upto it. But then not allowed him to remove the deadwood. Also, it seems that deadwood got a person trying to sort things out (the old chairman, Ed?) removed.

Basically yes, but we are where we are!

Are you sure that Bristol will finish above Bath incidentally? What humiliation if you don't.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Agree but guess main issue flagged is defence and making us harder to beat.

That is only really a criticism of hoops assuming he was allowed to appoint a specialist defence coach but didn't.

Brent was on a hiding to nothing by the time he came in. Hats remit beforehand was far too large.

As you have said many times SW the most significant specialist coach appointment feels like jpf. Let's hope he goes well!

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shipwrecked
Are you sure that Bristol will finish above Bath incidentally? What humiliation if you don't.

I'm never sure we'll win anything! Too many years supporting Bristol to not expect bankruptcy, homeless-ness or someother disaster (contract balls up) being just round the corner....

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Jim H

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shipwrecked
Are you sure that Bristol will finish above Bath incidentally? What humiliation if you don't.

I'm never sure we'll win anything! Too many years supporting Bristol to not expect bankruptcy, homeless-ness or someother disaster (contract balls up) being just round the corner....

Yikes, I hope you mean homeless-ness in rugby terms Jim! If not I can ask around our board, I'm sure someone will have a tent to donate, we don't need to tell them who its for!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Yikes, I hope you mean homeless-ness in rugby terms Jim! If not I can ask around our board, I'm sure someone will have a tent to donate, we don't need to tell them who its for!

I'll be fine - Big Dave has said there's room for one more in Coochie's hedge!

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badger1664

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woodpecker

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CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

As they say , a fool and his money are easily parted , presumably that must also apply to muppets .

As someone who decided to hold faith with the Club and renew for 2922-23 can I just say I don't consider myself a fool or a muppet!

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Susanne

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badger1664

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woodpecker

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CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

As they say , a fool and his money are easily parted , presumably that must also apply to muppets .

As someone who decided to hold faith with the Club and renew for 2922-23 can I just say I don't consider myself a fool or a muppet!

Suzanne, I'm not sure how old you are, but you might not be around for that season.

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woodpecker

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Susanne

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badger1664

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woodpecker

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CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

As they say , a fool and his money are easily parted , presumably that must also apply to muppets .

As someone who decided to hold faith with the Club and renew for 2922-23 can I just say I don't consider myself a fool or a muppet!

Suzanne, I'm not sure how old you are, but you might not be around for that season.

You're on fire today Woody!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

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shipwrecked

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woodpecker

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Susanne

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badger1664

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woodpecker

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CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

As they say , a fool and his money are easily parted , presumably that must also apply to muppets .

As someone who decided to hold faith with the Club and renew for 2922-23 can I just say I don't consider myself a fool or a muppet!

Suzanne, I'm not sure how old you are, but you might not be around for that season.

You're on fire today Woody!

Thanks SW, but I cant see me winning any comedy awards

Tweet from Andrew Sheridan

Quote:

It was a privilege to be invited to Farleigh House by @L_Hancock6 to sit and meet Johann van Graan. Listening to him talk about his childhood, his involvement in rugby from an early age through his coaching roles with the Bulls, the Springboks in various capacities and most latterly Munster it was hard not to be impressed. His encyclopaedic knowledge and recall was hugely impressive and it was clear that he together with his coaching team and back room staff are under no illusion as to the task in hand but they already have a plan in place and a vision of what they and the players collectively want to achieve. His values are traditional core rugby ones and it was clear that he is a “people person” and a family man who expects his wife and three children to be invested in the City of Bath for a number of years.
As my 40th season of covering @BathRugby beckons I cannot recall a better first meeting with the new Head Coach (main man) ever. Credit to @L_Hancock6 and JVG - there was a positive buzz about the place and the players were in fine fettle with smiles everywhere #positivevibes

Thanks CC.
Sounds hopeful!

PG

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Susanne
As someone who decided to hold faith with the Club and renew for 2922-23 can I just say I don't consider myself a fool or a muppet!

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woodpecker
Suzanne, I'm not sure how old you are, but you might not be around for that season.

Tbf JVG did say: “We’ve changed ... the way Bath operated before, because I believe we needed that change of direction. That’s going to take time to bed in”

Similar article to the Telegraph one but without a pay wall on the BBC Rugby pages


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

You could see the direction that was set at the start of last season, they only cared about style. Forget about the scoreboard, so long as we're playing good attacking rugby the results will come - if I remember right. In hindsight, it was never going to work, it was a house built upon sand. It spiralled.

Its good that the new head honcho has arrived and made a good impression.

I still feel a bit uneasy about the news that the previous existing coaching team are still in place, including junior members. We'll see.

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annie blackthorn
Its good that the new head honcho has arrived and made a good impression.
I still feel a bit uneasy about the news that the previous existing coaching team are still in place, including junior members. We'll see.

Annie, I’m a bit bemused by this. So far as I can see the only member of the previous senior coaching team still doing the same job is Luke Charteris and JVG has already said that he values him as lineout coach. Otherwise we have a new Head of Rugby, a new Defence Coach and a new Attack Coach. Neal Hatley has reverted to concentrating on the forwards and given the new structure that he’s working in, that’s as good as a new appointment in my view.
The junior members that I think you are referring to have been reassigned to roles within the Academy structure which should be good for them in the long term and also the Academy.

If I’ve got a concern it’s that the changes in coaching staff together with the significant restructuring of the support teams will take a while to deliver their full potential. We need to manage our expectations accordingly for their first season in place.

The point might be that this Club statement seems to imply they were leaving.

Obviously as they are currently listed as coaches something has changed.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

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shipwrecked
Try this, on the understanding you share the salient points from your subscription!
JvG's plans

Reminds me of that immortal song, 'Reasons to be cheerful'

Is that where we got our squad from gaz?

The deserts of Sudan, from the gardens of Japan, from Milan to Yucatan?😀
PG

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P G Tips
Is that where we got our squad from gaz?
The deserts of Sudan, from the gardens of Japan, from Milan to Yucatan?😀
PG

Very good PG. Two fat ladies click click click

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Susanne

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badger1664

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woodpecker

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CoochieCoo
Season tickets sold out announced by the club. Presumably that is about 7,500?

Hmm who would have thought there were that many muppets..

As they say , a fool and his money are easily parted , presumably that must also apply to muppets .

As someone who decided to hold faith with the Club and renew for 2922-23 can I just say I don't consider myself a fool or a muppet!

I also renewed, don’t think I’m a fool so I guess I must be a muppet!

Have zero expectation of finishing anything higher than 10th, just hope it doesn’t rain too often. Bonus is I get another trip to Toulon.

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P G Tips
Is that where we got our squad from gaz?
The deserts of Sudan, from the gardens of Japan, from Milan to Yucatan?😀
PG

Not sure JvG was talking about waving his rhythm stick around PG

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Devonport Lad
Luke Charteris and JVG has already said that he values him as lineout coach

Given he's also said that "calling" is one of the fundamental issues to be addressed you wonder how much is him putting a "brave" face on the fait-accompli of a coaching team including Charteris, Hatley and others who might otherwise not have been retained?
I hope it works out for JvG and Bath.

It’s a reasonable enough point of view OM, but for now I’m prepared to take JVG’s repeatedly stated comments about his current coaching team and Neal Hatley and Luke Charteris’s roles at face value. I see the comment about changing the calls as having been said in the wider context of a total change in the approach to all aspects of Bath Rugby’s gameplay rather than being a specific commentary on lineout performance, but I’m sure that JVG will not shy from making changes if he feels he needs to; he’s clearly already had some influence in the composition of the coaching team. I still don’t understand who the “others who might otherwise not have been retained” are in the context of the senior coaching staff ? I’ve already recognised the reassignment of two of the previous senior coaching staff to the Academy.

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shipwrecked
The point might be that this Club statement seems to imply they were leaving.
Obviously as they are currently listed as coaches something has changed.

I know some assumed that this statement meant that Lilley and Davis were leaving, but it’s not what the statement says. From the updates on the coaches page of the Bath site it looks like both have moved back to the academy/pathway which is where there were before being elevated to assist the first team coaches by Hooper a couple of seasons ago. It would seem a good thing for them and hopefully for their future at Bath to continue there development under JVG & Co.

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dcsh

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shipwrecked
The point might be that this Club statement seems to imply they were leaving.
Obviously as they are currently listed as coaches something has changed.

I know some assumed that this statement meant that Lilley and Davis were leaving, but it’s not what the statement says. From the updates on the coaches page of the Bath site it looks like both have moved back to the academy/pathway which is where there were before being elevated to assist the first team coaches by Hooper a couple of seasons ago. It would seem a good thing for them and hopefully for their future at Bath to continue there development under JVG & Co.

Lets be frank its a rubbish statement and perhaps deliberately ambiguous, I suspect no-one knew what was happening at the time if EdG and BC were arguing.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Indeed. I think it is a good thing not to ditch young coaches because they were promoted too soon, it’s would still be good to develop a coaching pipeline so we aren’t left high and dry when JVG eventually moves on. Will it be Lilley and Davis? Who knows?

Really like the Mad dog video just up on offy and so, so good to see him in the BBW. Just looks so right

i'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere, but I would have thought JVG would be the person who recruits the coaching team. Clearly he brought JP with him and has inherited a bunch of existing Bath coaches, but was he instrumental in Maddog's recruitment? I was hoping for some kind of answer to that question in Joe's video.

Hopefully JVG did otherwise there is a hand above them that is still pulling the strings.

As to the existing Bath coaches he's inherited, I guess he'll assess them during the season and replace as necessary.

Nice little update from SomersetLive on JvG rebuilding process. I never knew the academy and senior players had different changing rooms at Farleigh, despite being in the matchday 23 last season, Bailey and Ojomoh still had to use the academy changing rooms away from senior players!

Lots of small changes being made to bring the team together as one, 8 weeks in and really liking what JvG has to say and the way he operates, really hope this translates into results on the field

SomertsetLive

"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"

A great article and more stuff that I hear and really like about JvG. I really don't want to descend to Hopper-bash but why oh why can any respectable DoR accept this?

"Last season, and for many before that, despite being stars of the team the likes of Orlando Bailey and Max Ojomoh were changing away from the senior players in the ‘academy changing rooms’ at Farleigh - a good two hundred metres away from their senior teammates."

My first post here in a number of years but I think some things need to be put in perspective. There has been a lot of investment by the club over the summer – in facilities, equipment and people. It’s all mainly in the annexe buildings where the player-focused activities take place, not the house. It’s an expensive but necessary exercise, after more than a decade at Farleigh.

In terms of resources (human and financial), my take is that Stuart Hooper had to make do with what he was given, especially during Covid when revenues crashed. In many ways he was on a hiding to nothing, especially carrying the title Director of Rugby when he had no coaching experience. He could yet prove a valuable asset in his new role.

The emergence from the academy of a clutch of very talented players raised hopes that the club could survive and even thrive on a more sustainable ‘grow your own’ model. But last season proved that if you try to combine a youthful squad, however exciting, with an inexperienced coaching team, you finish bottom of the table.

Johann van Graan had six months to plan before he went to the board with a comprehensive strategy for stopping the rot and a long shopping list demanding serious investment, on the face of it. New thinking too. Yoga is now part of the training schedule, aimed at enhancing players’ agility so that they can tackle without collecting yellow and red cards. When JvG presented Bruce & Co with the bill, they weren’t going to refuse him.

I find it encouraging that the new team did not immediately discard the younger coaches who had helped to develop some exciting talent at academy level. Instead they’re being given time to show their worth in the new set-up.

Simple: RESEARCH, PLAN, EXECUTE, EVALUATE. Rather than: ACT, REACT, PANIC, BLAME.

+1 and welcome back RalphAllen

Thanks CoochieCoo

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CoochieCoo
+1 and welcome back RalphAllen

Agreed- good post RA. Worth reading again at the end of October- when with 1/3 of the Prem season done, we should have a good idea of the new brom's impact.

PG

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RalphAllen
My first post here in a number of years but I think some things need to be put in perspective. There has been a lot of investment by the club over the summer – in facilities, equipment and people. It’s all mainly in the annexe buildings where the player-focused activities take place, not the house. It’s an expensive but necessary exercise, after more than a decade at Farleigh.
In terms of resources (human and financial), my take is that Stuart Hooper had to make do with what he was given, especially during Covid when revenues crashed. In many ways he was on a hiding to nothing, especially carrying the title Director of Rugby when he had no coaching experience. He could yet prove a valuable asset in his new role.

The emergence from the academy of a clutch of very talented players raised hopes that the club could survive and even thrive on a more sustainable ‘grow your own’ model. But last season proved that if you try to combine a youthful squad, however exciting, with an inexperienced coaching team, you finish bottom of the table.

Johann van Graan had six months to plan before he went to the board with a comprehensive strategy for stopping the rot and a long shopping list demanding serious investment, on the face of it. New thinking too. Yoga is now part of the training schedule, aimed at enhancing players’ agility so that they can tackle without collecting yellow and red cards. When JvG presented Bruce & Co with the bill, they weren’t going to refuse him.

I find it encouraging that the new team did not immediately discard the younger coaches who had helped to develop some exciting talent at academy level. Instead they’re being given time to show their worth in the new set-up.

Simple: RESEARCH, PLAN, EXECUTE, EVALUATE. Rather than: ACT, REACT, PANIC, BLAME.

And, for me, the key step is EVALUATE. Making a mistake is not a problem. Making the same mistake twice, is.

"An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it".
John F Kennedy

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Good post and welcome back ralphallen.

I hope Mike Williams is front of the yoga class if it's designed to help with tackle height. I think his hips may be concrete (I am only playing, his discipline did seem to improve slightly)

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P G Tips

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CoochieCoo
+1 and welcome back RalphAllen

Agreed- good post RA. Worth reading again at the end of October- when with 1/3 of the Prem season done, we should have a good idea of the new brom's impact.

PG

There might be some pointers early on, but JvG has been quite cautious, talking of a succession of 'small goals' to achieve over the first year, not least bedding in a new defensive system under JPF. Says there will be a full evaluation at the end of the season. Then decisions on who to recruit and retain. Managing expectations, it's called but I expect players to look fitter and more hungry from the get-go. The outcome ought to be a harder 'edge' but with better discipline.

Thanks RA, Im feeling quite optimistic!

Think jvg is right to be cautious publicly but jpf aiming to concede less than 2 tries per game is pretty bullish given the start point

This is the best contribution I have read on this website for a very long time.

Apart from my own, obviously.

Quote:

RalphAllen
My first post here in a number of years but I think some things need to be put in perspective. There has been a lot of investment by the club over the summer – in facilities, equipment and people. It’s all mainly in the annexe buildings where the player-focused activities take place, not the house. It’s an expensive but necessary exercise, after more than a decade at Farleigh.
In terms of resources (human and financial), my take is that Stuart Hooper had to make do with what he was given, especially during Covid when revenues crashed. In many ways he was on a hiding to nothing, especially carrying the title Director of Rugby when he had no coaching experience. He could yet prove a valuable asset in his new role.

The emergence from the academy of a clutch of very talented players raised hopes that the club could survive and even thrive on a more sustainable ‘grow your own’ model. But last season proved that if you try to combine a youthful squad, however exciting, with an inexperienced coaching team, you finish bottom of the table.

Johann van Graan had six months to plan before he went to the board with a comprehensive strategy for stopping the rot and a long shopping list demanding serious investment, on the face of it. New thinking too. Yoga is now part of the training schedule, aimed at enhancing players’ agility so that they can tackle without collecting yellow and red cards. When JvG presented Bruce & Co with the bill, they weren’t going to refuse him.

I find it encouraging that the new team did not immediately discard the younger coaches who had helped to develop some exciting talent at academy level. Instead they’re being given time to show their worth in the new set-up.

Simple: RESEARCH, PLAN, EXECUTE, EVALUATE. Rather than: ACT, REACT, PANIC, BLAME.

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RalphAllen

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P G Tips

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CoochieCoo
+1 and welcome back RalphAllen

Agreed- good post RA. Worth reading again at the end of October- when with 1/3 of the Prem season done, we should have a good idea of the new brom's impact.

PG

There might be some pointers early on, but JvG has been quite cautious, talking of a succession of 'small goals' to achieve over the first year, not least bedding in a new defensive system under JPF. Says there will be a full evaluation at the end of the season. Then decisions on who to recruit and retain. Managing expectations, it's called but I expect players to look fitter and more hungry from the get-go. The outcome ought to be a harder 'edge' but with better discipline.

All sounds hugely encouraging and the kind of top level thinking, planning and coaching we've missed badly

My only question is that if key recruitment and retention decisions are taken at the end of the season then any changes there probably won't happen until season after the next surely?

Double page article in trp yesterday titled 'we must become hard to beat'.

Much of it reiterates the comments above of Ralph Allen. A few snippets below:

Jvg- you need good people around you and we have made changes to the coaching group, and the athletic, medical, performance and nutrition operations'

Jvg- the changes which I recommended to the board were immediately bought into. I wanted to make sure the changing room, medical facility, gym, auditorium and eating room are of a standard I would like to see us operating at.

Jvg- the academy guys change with the senior group because it is important everyone is on the same level, it is me and you against the opposition, not how old you are or what contract you have. We have to respect each other.

Jvg- first thing we said was we have to be in better physicsl shape. That meant improving body composition and making sure we are as fit as we need to be to play a certain type of game.

Jpf- on yoga. ' refs are not going to change when it comes to tackle height so we have to. We have to be hitting from underneath the ball.'

Jpf- fitness has been a massive focus. We are getting a proper base to work off.

Jpf- on Monday accolades. ' I don't think guys want accolades for doing their job, they have to perform every week. Once I install something I drive it hard and I have principles on defence I swear by. If that does not happen that is when I get animated. I am a passionate guy but nothing is personal'

Jpf- we are going to connect with the city of bath. When we light up in defence we will light up the crowd

Jvg - on captaincy. I will make the decision before the first game of the season. It is important that I take my time because it is a key call. The game is changing: if you go with players in certain positions , the way the replacements work you mat take some off the pitch. It may be we do not go for one captain but someone selected from a few. That group dynamic is important because you need leaders across the pack, half backs drive a game and you need outside backs leading defence

Finally a coach that understands rugby! The relief that brings to a supporter like me is unexplainable.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Finally a coach that understands rugby! The relief that brings to a supporter like me is unexplainable.

+1

Hopefully it will translate into the only thing that really matters, wins and trophies.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Finally a coach that understands rugby! The relief that brings to a supporter like me is unexplainable.

+1