SERIOUS AND DESPERATE. LONDON IRISH V BATH

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:04:10:50:13 by P G Tips.

Bookies favour Irish at 2/5 for the win, Bath 11/4 [www.oddschecker.com]

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Sadly, can only see this game going one way Irish by 15 !

Sir is Karl Dickson

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

Old Bath Tub

Sir is Karl Dickson

Hope he hasn't been reading the reviews of his recent performance on this board

Excellent Tony O’Reilly quote there. However, seeing the headline took me back to a song by the renowned rugby aficionado, Adam Ant - Desperate But Not Serious.

Maybe just me. Maybe just a questionable music taste.

Quote:

gaz59

Quote:

Old Bath Tub

Sir is Karl Dickson

Hope he hasn't been reading the reviews of his recent performance on this board

All his performances as a referee are sub-standard. He isn't good enough to referee at this level. Period.

Doesn’t matter who the ref is, Bath cannot use this as an excuse when we lose again.

We have a leaky defence, no attacking threat, indifferent forward play and the usual injury list. Bath really are the team everyone else wants to play.

LI by 20pts at least.

Sorry to repeat several posts in recent months but it really must start with the defence. Get to HT with parity, be in the game entering the last quarter. We cannot be the team that needs to get 40+ points every game to win. I want to entertained of course but 9-9 at 60 mins would be a start, build resilience go from there.

Good point B4B

PG

It's a fair point, but I would also note that almost every Prem game so far this season has seen really high scorelines - the game itself isn't very tight at the moment. I wouldn't expect a 9-9.

We have really bad periods, often 20 minutes, where we concede 2-3 tries. Not doubling down on our errors and eliminating those periods is a bigger issue.

Certainly we need to start better for too long we’re 20 points down before we even show up.
That was one thing that was a bit better on Weds night they seemed awake and defended quite well in the first few minutes.

Defence is going to take time we have a proven performer in JP - however he has come in from a team that spent the majority of last year without any form of defence coach and then we brought one in and he went - so I think we have to give him time to work his proven magic.

I hope on the back of last night that ETETE is given a place on the bench he could be a real handful and of course RMC - I have heard that Spencer is doubtful and probably won't be risked apart from that the question will be who starts at 10.

We have to suck Irish in and slow them down or we will get a royal hiding - pretty much like Sale did to us infact.

I predict that we'll finish the game with 12 players on the field.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic
I predict that we'll finish the game with 12 players on the field.

To be honest our general discipline hasn’t been too bad, it’s just the effort, skill, organisation and strategy that we’re lacking.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

joethefanatic
I predict that we'll finish the game with 12 players on the field.

To be honest our general discipline hasn’t been too bad, it’s just the effort, skill, organisation and strategy that we’re lacking.

It's Karl Dickson.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

joethefanatic

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

joethefanatic
I predict that we'll finish the game with 12 players on the field.

To be honest our general discipline hasn’t been too bad, it’s just the effort, skill, organisation and strategy that we’re lacking.

It's Karl Dickson.

He’s the least of our worries and personally I’m not convinced he’s as bad as everyone on here makes out. However he will be a good excuse to be used when we’re humped on Saturday.

Irish fan here. Bath always turn up against us so I can never tell how a game between us will go.
The fact that Karl dickson is the ref as well just ruined my week.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a forum post anything positive about his performances, feels like he loves to get himself a headline.

Always a fun game between us. Hope to see many Bath fans at the Gtech (terrible stadium name now).

Quote:

Dorset Boy

Quote:

gaz59

Quote:

Old Bath Tub

Sir is Karl Dickson

Hope he hasn't been reading the reviews of his recent performance on this board

All his performances as a referee are sub-standard. He isn't good enough to referee at this level. Period.

Have to agree DB every time I see him ref he makes baffling decisions. He needs to ply his trade at Champ/Prem level for a few more years

"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"

Lets us hope, but it is a forlorn one, we don't box kick all day as we usually do, as Harry Arundell will just run it back at pace all day long

Quote:

nick holder
Lets us hope, but it is a forlorn one, we don't box kick all day as we usually do, as Harry Arundell will just run it back at pace all day long

It depends of the quality of kick, if its contestable then its a 50-50 chance of us getting the ball back and cutting down Arundell space to run it back. Irish are a very loose team who don't seem to care about defence and back themselves to out score their opponents. Bath need to provide a solid defence for the first time this season to stand a chance of winning.

Quote:

Tom1215
Hope to see many Bath fans at the Gtech (terrible stadium name now).

Hmmmm, Dyson vs Gtech. A long in the tooth innovator, expensive for what you get, reliant on overseas labour and kinda sucks vs the cost effective, try and shake things up, UK based upstart?

Annoyingly un-copy-paste teamsheet up. But quite an interesting selection and mercifully back to 5/3 bench split.

3 games in 8 days for Max Green? I know it was only a cameo on Friday but still.

Maybe we have the edge on the forwards, but most of that is my ignorance over the Irish players.

Muir out with training ground injury and needs to see a specialist. Cloete has had surgery on a broken metatarsal. All taken off Somerset Live.

Will be interesting to see the Joseph brothers play opposite each other!

30 September 2022

Bath Rugby have made five changes to their starting XV for the trip to London Irish in Round 4 of the Gallagher Premiership.

Quinn Roux and GJ van Velze will earn their first starts for the club from lock and blindside flanker respectively, while Juan Schoeman will make his maiden start of the campaign.

Josh Bayliss comes back into the back row that is missing Richard de Carpentier and Chris Cloete due to injury. The latter has sustained a broken metatarsal and will begin his rehabilitation post-surgery.

In the backs, Gabriel Hamer-Webb is the only amendment to the backline that started against Wasps. Will Muir suffered an injury in training and will seek specialist opinion. Matt Gallagher retains his place at full-back with Tom de Glanville’s hamstring issue needing further treatment.

Elsewhere, Tom Dunn remains as captain for his 175th Bath appearance with Will Stuart, Josh McNally and Miles Reid also maintaining their spots in the pack.

Louis Schreuder and Orlando Bailey’s half-back partnership continues as does the midfield link-up of Max Ojomoh and Jonathan Joseph. Joe Cokanasiga completes the XV from the wing.

On the bench, D’Arcy Rae has returned from injury while Tom Ellis and Ruaridh McConnochie are included following midweek action in the Premiership Rugby Cup.



BATH RUGBY TEAM TO PLAY LONDON IRISH

Quote:

Rawce
Muir out with training ground injury and needs to see a specialist. Cloete has had surgery on a broken metatarsal. All taken off Somerset Live.

Seems like every game someone else gets a serious injury that will keep them out for months.. ☹️

No other team suffers like this

where is Ewan Richards or Will Spencer they weren't in Wednesday's team (and we had a back row in the 2nd row) and no sign of them on a Saturday either?

Good to see Ellis back though he was good for a first game back on Wednesday night.

15 Henry Arundell, 14 Ben Loader, 13 Will Joseph, 12 Benhard Janse van Rensburg, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins,

10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Ben White;

1 Danilo Fischetti, 2 Agustin Creevy, 3 Lovejoy Chawatama, 4 Api Ratuniyarawa, 5 Rob Simmons, 6 Ben Donnell, 7 Tom Pearson, 8 Matt Rogerson (c)

That is a stupidly talented set of backs for Irish. Interesting to see the brothers come up against each other at 13! Hard to see anything other than another loss but hopefully I will eat my words.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

For reasons I don’t fully understand - number of yellow cards, no relegation fear - we’re seeing a lot of very high scoring games this season. Irish, Glos and Quins scored 16 tries between them last weekend and all lost. I don’t think we’ll be able to stop Hassell-Collins, Arundell and Loader from scoring on Saturday but I’ll be very disappointed if we don’t come away with a try bonus point.

No Obano, Coetzee x2, Spencer x 2, Cloete, Richards, Attwood, RDC, Underhill, Muir, TDG, Redpath and I have predicted a win!!....... Always hopeful but if we get on the wrong side of Dickson it could get messy.

adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.

Quote:

Pop stand fan
For reasons I don’t fully understand - number of yellow cards, no relegation fear - we’re seeing a lot of very high scoring games this season. Irish, Glos and Quins scored 16 tries between them last weekend and all lost. I don’t think we’ll be able to stop Hassell-Collins, Arundell and Loader from scoring on Saturday but I’ll be very disappointed if we don’t come away with a try bonus point.

My guess on points is down to tackle height and players not making upright tackles, therefore allowing more offloading!

"It's all right, Andy! It's just bolognaise!"

Their backline look a serious handful, can see us conceding quite a few points (like always!).

Richards must be injured which is a worry as he could definitely improve our options.

Muir loss is a body blow if serious as consistently our biggest attacking thread. Slightly offset by having rmc back in the squad who is class.

Crikey - 3 games in and we're going to have start doing our passive-aggressive, look at our 'not-available-for-selection XV' ahead of the game.

Quote:

Optimist
Crikey - 3 games in and we're going to have start doing our passive-aggressive, look at our 'not-available-for-selection XV' ahead of the game.

Don't get me ranting on another thread opti!

Hopefully jvg focuses on having rae, ellis and rmc back in the first team mix

Ooh look at their backs, cant see us winning this one, fingers crossed!

I can see us winning the forward battle. I don't think our front five has much to fear. I would prefer that we kept Aranos Coetzee ahead of Rae. I think he has been extremely effective.

Assuming that may just be a rotation thing malco?

I agree, think coetzee has been excellent- rock solid in scrum and does a bit around the park as well.

Clearly nothing has changed on the injury front so it wasn’t down to our previous coaches. In fact very little has yet changed in any respect. I just have this deja by feeling. All we can hope for is that we don’t ship 40 plus points but I have minimal confidence of even that.

Quote:

Bath Hammer
Clearly nothing has changed on the injury front so it wasn’t down to our previous coaches.

To be fair if you type 'Chris Cloete' injury into google you get a ream of previous ailments, from broken arm, ankle issues, neck issues etc. He has played about 10 games a year on average for various teams. Good player but not sure how you stop someone who plays like that from getting injured.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

Bath Hammer
Clearly nothing has changed on the injury front so it wasn’t down to our previous coaches.

To be fair if you type 'Chris Cloete' injury into google you get a ream of previous ailments, from broken arm, ankle issues, neck issues etc. He has played about 10 games a year on average for various teams. Good player but not sure how you stop someone who plays like that from getting injured.

So why did we sign a player with such a terrible injury record? Guess we are limited in players willing to play for Bath?

Looking at their back line and t he fact we have no effective defensive strategy they could easily run in 8 or 9 tries. Kicking penalties isn’t going to get us near a LBP.

We can't defend anything that gets outside the 12 channel. I'm prepared for a roasting.

Quick question, I am hoping to buy a PRTV match pass for the 1st time this afternoon - can I register for an account and get the pass, all at short notice this afternoon or do I need to allow some time for the process to go through? Is it quick and easy?

It’s very quick. I registered 15 mins before kick off against Sale.

Quote:

Rawce

Quote:

Tom1215
Hope to see many Bath fans at the Gtech (terrible stadium name now).

Hmmmm, Dyson vs Gtech. A long in the tooth innovator, expensive for what you get, reliant on overseas labour and kinda sucks vs the cost effective, try and shake things up, UK based upstart?

Smart post

Quote:

by
It’s very quick. I registered 15 mins before kick off against Sale.

Cheers, doing some house electrics today so it might need to be just like that....

Quote:

B4thB4ck
Quick question, I am hoping to buy a PRTV match pass for the 1st time this afternoon - can I register for an account and get the pass, all at short notice this afternoon or do I need to allow some time for the process to go through? Is it quick and easy?

Has anyone else registered and paid for the Irish Bath match and is currently watching the Exeter team warming up?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

B4thB4ck
Quick question, I am hoping to buy a PRTV match pass for the 1st time this afternoon - can I register for an account and get the pass, all at short notice this afternoon or do I need to allow some time for the process to go through? Is it quick and easy?

Has anyone else registered and paid for the Irish Bath match and is currently watching the Exeter team warming up?

Yes !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Bath game on now !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

Old Bath Tub

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

B4thB4ck
Quick question, I am hoping to buy a PRTV match pass for the 1st time this afternoon - can I register for an account and get the pass, all at short notice this afternoon or do I need to allow some time for the process to go through? Is it quick and easy?

Has anyone else registered and paid for the Irish Bath match and is currently watching the Exeter team warming up?

Yes !

Try refreshing - it has switched over now.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

That worked , thanks Matt

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Oh dear..
Early 7 pts for LI and van Velze off with an arm injury.

Too easy for Irish so far, 7- 0 , 6 mins for GJ V then injured, Ellis on.

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

It may be a long day .... second try in the corner. Second (or maybe third) best in all departments.

Irish running blockers....

Sadly usual poor start from Bath, 14-0 after 15 mins ……

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

..... a ray of hope from nowhere. First time we get vaguely quick ball and don't look for contact.

Great try for my adoptee GHW ! good work from Matt G . !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

The one aspect of our utter failure last season that I hoped & thought would be successfully addressed was our defence. JP Fereira looked to be the man to sort it out & as long as we could become really hard to score tries against that would establish a a good basis going forward. Unfortunately there is no discernible change in that department . We look just as slovenly & disorganised as ever. This could be a very long afternoon.

Gives up and reaches for the scotch.

Good grief now McNally off injured , 21-5 , White on .

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Well, another week and nothing has changed. What is wrong with this group?

Quote:

Never In Doubt
Gives up and reaches for the scotch.

I think I’ll join you.

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

We are just embarrassing. How can we get worse from last season where we finished bottom? McNally off with what looks like a serious arm injury to add to our woes and give the coaches something else to try and blame another defeat on.

If you thought our first half against Wasps was bad, you might want to avoid watching our first half here..

Dickson has obviously read all the negative comments on here !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Dickson only looking one way.

Jeebus, Dixon is poor, but we don’t have to give it to him on a plate.

Not sure how Ellis is supposed to roll away with Creevy sat on him mind…

Try bonus for Irish on 26 mins., what the HELL !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

No way that was worth a yellow card, the ball was available, not even a pen.

Quote:

B4thB4ck
No way that was worth a yellow card, the ball was available, not even a pen.

Agreed. I’ve seen a lot of comments over the years that Dixon has no empathy for the game and I think that was a good example.

Starting to get a few pity decisions from Dickson now...

The fact is we are playing at far too high a level for this group of players as a collective. Theyvare far to slow in thought, word & deed & whatever malaise afflicted them last season is too deep rooted to change for any group of coaches. Presumably the injuries are caused by us not being up to this playing level & trying to over compensate. There can’t be any other reason.

No point blaming the ref, The players and coaches are not up to the job and until we get relegated and a complete reset nothing will change

Is anyone really surprised at the hammering we are taking? Poor recruitment and poor coaching yet again.

Pitiful. It is impossible to say what our intended game plan is because within 15 mins of the game we were totally out of it.

A point a minute at the time of their 4th try. Every team knows they can give their kids a run out after bagging the BP win before half time.

Bath frustrated….making frustrating watching 5 try’s for Irish 35 - 5 .
Embarrassing is an understatement , seen enough .
Can’t wait for the new defence coach to arrive !
Going out with the wife…..more entertaining!

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Our ball is so slow compared to Irish, we must compete better on the deck, cut out their ball at source.

In possession we don't have the depth of pass, just sideways, tackle, ruck. That won't trouble anyone, at least try to pass out of the tackle otherwise the ball out of the ruck is too slow.

What’s our record defeat to Irish?

Maybe we should get a defence coach who knows what he’s doing?

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Can’t wait for the new defence coach to arrive !

He’s already here…

Quote:

SJS

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
Can’t wait for the new defence coach to arrive !

He’s already here…

Really?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Off topic a bit, but watching the Sarries game on tv which is light years ahead of anything Bath could dream of, how on Earth can Sarries be under the salary cap?????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:01:15:58:11 by Upinthehills.

Quote:

Rawce
We are just embarrassing. How can we get worse from last season where we finished bottom? McNally off with what looks like a serious arm injury to add to our woes and give the coaches something else to try and blame another defeat on.

Yep, if in doubt it's the injuries.

And the injuries are purely bad luck.

And that bad luck is not experienced by any other club.

Is that 5 from 5 where we have conceded a try scoring BP?

These things take time.....for us, not others ....but we have to say these things take time.

Hope I read this back embarrassed in an hour when we have turned it around.

Firstly we need some continuity. Secondly our backline defence isn't working. Loader and OHC are in acres of space, where our wingers are shackled behind the gainline.

Keep the faith! We've got them just where we want them. The last thing they'd expect is for us to turn it around and play with any modicum of competence in the second half.

The signing of Matt Gallagher looks a decent bit of business.

Quote:

Barnoid

The signing of Matt Gallagher looks a decent bit of business.

All our signings look decent. Probably because they haven't been inflicted by the Bath malaise yet

Quote:

Upinthehills
Off topic a bit, but watching the Sarries game on tv which is light years ahead of anything Bath could dream of, how on Earth can Sarries be under the salary cap?????

The reports of salaries must be wrong cos it has m vunipola on well over 400k, Billy v likewise and then maro and faz on waaayyy more as marquee.

So about 4 million left to squeeze in George, isiekwe, earl, van zyl, malins, goode, daly, maitland etc, plus rest of squad.

They must be squeaky clean given what has happened on past but god knows how. Fair play to them, they could beat us missing all those guys cos they are well coached and have great desire , drive and cohesion.

Quote:

Barnoid
Keep the faith! We've got them just where we want them. The last thing they'd expect is for us to turn it around and play with any modicum of competence in the second half.
The signing of Matt Gallagher looks a decent bit of business.

...I typed this before Matty scored his second.

COYB and sit down all you Judas non-believers.

Gallagher had time to run towards the posts, 2 points wasted. He does look good though.

Better defence, get up quick to the ball out the back.

Joe uses his size! Good option.

Quote:

Bath Hammer
The fact is we are playing at far too high a level for this group of players as a collective. Theyvare far to slow in thought, word & deed & whatever malaise afflicted them last season is too deep rooted to change for any group of coaches. Presumably the injuries are caused by us not being up to this playing level & trying to over compensate. There can’t be any other reason.

Sad to say I agree with you, I never really want to see Bath in the championship. However the players, coaches and management are all at championship level so we’d be better off there.

I assume we wouldn’t concede 30+ points every game in the championship either.

At what point, under the Trade Description Act, do Bath Rugby have to refund my ST?
#JustAskinForAFriend

Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!

Nice to see some hard yards working our way up the pitch there. But as always, it comes to nought with daft penalties. If only there were away of going round the outside as demonstrated rather effectively by LI.

We are so far behind every team it's unreal. It's so one dimensional. Find man, hit man ... Then we get turned over. No speed, no precision, no seeming hunger for the game. Every part of the game we are second best ... So sad to see and that we've been allowed to get to this point.

Can Bath legally 'swap' all the players for Warriors ones?!

Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!

We are in dire straits, with no prospect that any coach could turn this decline around. I never thought it would come to this but we need the Championship to save Bath Rugby.

Is this a try I see before me or just a palindrome?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:01:16:38:14 by Mike the Taxi.

Any Bath fans who actually bothered travelling to the game deserve an apology from the coaches and players along with a full refund of their expenses.

Quote:

Rawce
Nice to see some hard yards working our way up the pitch there. But as always, it comes to nought with daft penalties. If only there were away of going round the outside as demonstrated rather effectively by LI.

It was the same contrast a few weeks ago, United v Irish A. I think there is an improvement today in that receivers are often lined up better but the passer doesn't take the option.

I would like to see Schreuder stop this 1 second pause and look at the rucks, it would speed up the tempo.

Quote:

OutsideBath
Any Bath fans who actually bothered travelling to the game deserve an apology from the coaches and players along with a full refund of their expenses.

Now 42-31.

Amongst this absolute shower we've managed to score 5 tries. 42-31 with 2 mins left. Just papers over the rather large cracks and a chance to trot out the 'green shoots' and 'something to work with' rubbish

Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.

Two more serious injuries in the pack today, potentially season ending for Van Velze and for McNally. This is way, way beyond what you can plan for and hope to deal with. We cannot be competitive when we are playing mix and match sides week in, week out in the most competitive club league in world rugby.

5 tries!! When was the last time Bath scored that many!?

47-38 final and managed to score 6 tries

47-38 FT.

Somewhere up this thread, before the game I said I wanted to see a better defence as the no.1 priority. Didn't get it and the Bayliss yellow card tipped the game as we were already struggling.

Some nice handling by Bath in the last quarter, it was only after the game was gone so this is also shows a confidence issue for me.

Great impact by Annett, making up for previous indiscretions....

Wesley White has been a good presence at the ruck with a couple of decent turnovers since coming on and Niall Annett's darts and work around the park has been good. I also think Louis Schreuder acquitted himself pretty well - the step down from Ben Spencer no longer requires a step ladder.

We're ridiculourly low on confidence and only playing moderately well in patches, but wishing relegation on ourselves is mind boggling to me.

As Quins discovered last weekend six tries isn’t enough to win a match in this crazy season. Still it’s a try bonus point away from home.

Can't tell if we played well in the second half or Irish just switched off.

Only positives I can pick out are that Roux is a good signing, White played much better today, and some of our attacks looked sharp.

I have no idea what's happened to JJ, I can't see how hes getting into the team right now.

Whilst what has happened to Worcester is absolutely dreadful in every sense of the word. I hate to say it, but it could be a way for JVG to rejuvenate our squad because we really need it.

We do realise rugby is 80mins a game, not 90 right?

And yet again a single digit TBP defeat.

This is getting ridiculous. Why do we have to ship 5 tries before we wake up. Jesus Christ Bath!

J

Quote:

Malco
Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.
Two more serious injuries in the pack today, potentially season ending for Van Velze and for McNally. This is way, way beyond what you can plan for and hope to deal with. We cannot be competitive when we are playing mix and match sides week in, week out in the most competitive club league in world rugby.

Why are we completely unable to get on top of the injury situation?

Other clubs either have the same issue and cope better, or don't have the same issue so are doing something better than we are.

It can't be luck week after week, month after month, season after season.

We have literally just had a huge review into it and made loads of changes on the back of it. Impact of that- loads of serious injuries one month into the season.

I agree with your sentiment that mix and match every week makes improvements very hard when you are starting at as low a base as us.

I don't mind us as fans pointing to it as a reason for repeatedly losing matches but jvg etc should just get on with what they are dealt whilst behind the scenes looking into what the hell is going on.

The way we finished just papers over the cracks, just like last week. Clearly, when teams have such a margin of superiority against their opponents they relax too much & even Bath can take some advantage but it is fairly meaningless. We have to sort out our defence as we are far too easy to score against. Although our injuries are mind bogglingly excessive that is largely unrelated to our incompetence. We don’t want excuses.We want solutions!

Charlieboa, whilst I imagine some injuries are pure bad luck. I suspect that our weak defence is also putting our players at risk.

Quote:

Malco
Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.

It's unfortunately not a simple as that. The problem wasn't that we got outpowered up front. The problem was that almost every time Irish moved the ball out wide, our outside backs looked terrified and that they didn't have a clue how to defend together. That's where Irish scored all their tries. That's where we lost the game. Attwood, Cloete, Obano, Coetzee, none of them would have made a difference to GHW, JJ, Cokanasiga, Mojo's alignment and panic in defence.

“We will become a tough team to beat.”

I’ll give JvG time, but he seems so far off from delivering his above promise. We’re pathetic, defence especially, and I can’t believe that 5 games in and we’re still this pathetic.

I didn’t even watch or follow today - for the first time in quite a few years I did other Saturday afternoon things. I don’t know if I’m a great bellwether for club morale, but the fact I no longer felt bothered enough to check how we’re doing felt quite significant. Really sad, as I’d rather watch us be competitive on a Saturday than hoover the car, but that’s where we are.

Still, suppose I’m bothered enough to come on here and moan. Proof there is a light that never goes out…

Listened to BBC Radio Bristol whilst reading the paper. It sounded like a try every 5mins for them in the first half, it may well have been, and the game was up after 40mins at 35-5. They moved it wide as soon as they could and found space out there. Sad times, again. Sigh...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

On my way back from the game was there a TMO for anyone who watched it? I wasn't aware of any referrals. Not that it matters, just interested.

Not possible to win games conceding as many tries as Bath, we need an effective defence coach.

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

Malco
Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.

It's unfortunately not a simple as that. The problem wasn't that we got outpowered up front. The problem was that almost every time Irish moved the ball out wide, our outside backs looked terrified and that they didn't have a clue how to defend together. That's where Irish scored all their tries. That's where we lost the game. Attwood, Cloete, Obano, Coetzee, none of them would have made a difference to GHW, JJ, Cokanasiga, Mojo's alignment and panic in defence.

Imagine our struggles if JJ wasn't an amazing defensive leader in the outside channels (unnecessary sarcasm so apologies but don't think I have ever seen both wingers get a hatrick....so at least we are groundbreaking).

Its systematic I imagine but systems do rely on individuals so players have to take some responsibility....it can't all be on jpf.

His aim was 2 tries per game conceded.... that's 20 I think in 4 league games so has some clawing back to do. Jeeze

Quote:

hasta
On my way back from the game was there a TMO for anyone who watched it? I wasn't aware of any referrals. Not that it matters, just interested.

The radio bris guys seemed surprised a few times by lack of tmo referrals for what it's worth hasta....

JVG oh his post match interview just mentioned both Van Velze & McNally appear to have dislocated their shoulders and will be out for a long time… Just gets worse.

Surely we’ll start drafting in some cover very soon.

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

Malco
Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.

It's unfortunately not a simple as that. The problem wasn't that we got outpowered up front. The problem was that almost every time Irish moved the ball out wide, our outside backs looked terrified and that they didn't have a clue how to defend together. That's where Irish scored all their tries. That's where we lost the game. Attwood, Cloete, Obano, Coetzee, none of them would have made a difference to GHW, JJ, Cokanasiga, Mojo's alignment and panic in defence.

Perhaps it would have helped if De Glanville, Muir, Redpath and Spencer had been in that back line?

Quote:

Shorty Shorty iiv
JVG oh his post match interview just mentioned both Van Velze & McNally appear to have dislocated their shoulders and will be out for a long time… Just gets worse.
Surely we’ll start drafting in some cover very soon.

Problem is the list of players prepared to play for a club like Bath isn’t very long so we’ll probably have to make do with what we’ve got.

Would we have cap space to sign Worcester players that have few options?

Quote:

Shorty Shorty iiv
JVG oh his post match interview just mentioned both Van Velze & McNally appear to have dislocated their shoulders and will be out for a long time

Good grief, I feel for both of them, it's just so debilitating for all concerned...

Quote:

Malco

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

Malco
Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.

It's unfortunately not a simple as that. The problem wasn't that we got outpowered up front. The problem was that almost every time Irish moved the ball out wide, our outside backs looked terrified and that they didn't have a clue how to defend together. That's where Irish scored all their tries. That's where we lost the game. Attwood, Cloete, Obano, Coetzee, none of them would have made a difference to GHW, JJ, Cokanasiga, Mojo's alignment and panic in defence.

Perhaps it would have helped if De Glanville, Muir, Redpath and Spencer had been in that back line?

De Glanville would have made no difference over Gallagher who was probably our best player. Spencer would have made no difference over Schroeder in outside back defence because he's not an outside back. Muir and Redpath have both been involved in conceding pretty poor scorelines this season.

Our injuries are a problem. They are not the reason why our defensive alignment was so poor, why we missed tackles or why we panicked and made poor defensive decisions. Pretending they are is giving the team and coaches an excuse.

Lacking moments of individual brilliance because your stars are injured, I can get.

But appalling structure of defense and falling off simple tackles is a coaching and playing failure, not an injury failure.

Seriously guys, what is wrong at Bath. I’m a Wasps fan but can’t believe how a squad like yours performs so badly. The names in the 23 look decent enough - why is it not happening on the field? The league needs a good Bath team so I hope you can turn it round but conceding huge points every week won’t do it. Is it confidence? Ability? Recruitment? Hope you can win a few soon (not at the CBS)!

Was at the game today.
Irish movement was very sharp, defence was really stretched. Arundell knocked aside his tackler creating the overlap for the first. Second try followed too easily
Great movement for our first try.
Very harsh yellow but even then the defence was really poor. At 35-5 this was looking truly awful. Irish do have talent in depth - Pearson was so good.
Two very unfortunate injuries to Van Velze and McNally.
Second half effort was commendable. Terrific efforts from Joe C, Ellis, Stuart, Reid OB.
Obviously disappointed you concede 49 points but there are genuinely shoots of recovery.
I expect much doom and gloom on here but I remain optimistic

Aside from the rugby, which I haven’t seen so I’ll reserve judgment.

My actual Irish mate (as opposed to a London Irish mate!) was watching today and said there was a really big fight at the end in the crowd.

Hopefully not some of ours…but having seen some recent behaviours at the Rec, I’m fearful.

Quote:

Shugs
Seriously guys, what is wrong at Bath. I’m a Wasps fan but can’t believe how a squad like yours performs so badly. The names in the 23 look decent enough - why is it not happening on the field? The league needs a good Bath team so I hope you can turn it round but conceding huge points every week won’t do it. Is it confidence? Ability? Recruitment? Hope you can win a few soon (not at the CBS)!

Why does the league need a good Bath team? The only reason for us to be in the PL at present is to provide other teams with an easy training run.

As for what’s wrong, it’s down to poor recruitment and poor coaching.

Four games into the season and Bath has already shipped 154 points. Defense is their major weakness, and injuries their curse. Difficult to get a true musketeer togetherness and dynamic team spirit going in such fragmented and dissolute times.
A stated aim of shipping no more than two tries a game and playing for 80 minutes isn't going to change much. The coaching is still going to be woefully unfit for need, lacking spark and sub-standard and we are still going to be propping up the table.
Can't see that the continuing spectral presences of Hooper and Hately helps matters. Clear out the stables and let JvG have his head and his way. It's the only way to truly judge his performance.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

Shorty Shorty iiv
JVG oh his post match interview just mentioned both Van Velze & McNally appear to have dislocated their shoulders and will be out for a long time… Just gets worse.
Surely we’ll start drafting in some cover very soon.

Problem is the list of players prepared to play for a club like Bath isn’t very long so we’ll probably have to make do with what we’ve got.

Would we have cap space to sign Worcester players that have few options?

Medical joker if the injury is long enough?

Quote:

Shugs
Seriously guys, what is wrong at Bath. I’m a Wasps fan but can’t believe how a squad like yours performs so badly. The names in the 23 look decent enough - why is it not happening on the field? The league needs a good Bath team so I hope you can turn it round but conceding huge points every week won’t do it. Is it confidence? Ability? Recruitment? Hope you can win a few soon (not at the CBS)!

If anyone has any answers, please send them to:

Director of Rugby
Bath Rugby
Farleigh House
Nr Bath

Quote:

dr.bath1865
I didn’t even watch or follow today - for the first time in quite a few years I did other Saturday afternoon things. I don’t know if I’m a great bellwether for club morale, but the fact I no longer felt bothered enough to check how we’re doing felt quite significant. Really sad, as I’d rather watch us be competitive on a Saturday than hoover the car, but that’s where we are.
Still, suppose I’m bothered enough to come on here and moan. Proof there is a light that never goes out…

Same here. Today was a good day after a relentless run of mediocre to bad days. Things started well and continued. I got to walk into town with the little one in the pram, the weather stayed away, all seemed chilled. I watched the game but I’m switching off mentally from it so it doesn’t detract from an otherwise lovely day. Me of a few seasons ago would have brooded a first half showing like that. I guess it is testament to the last couple of seasons that I’m caring less and less. Sad really.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:01:19:16:21 by Rawce.

I couldn't disagree more.

Players build relationships and understanding from playing together.

If you chop and change your back line from week to week then the disruption is going to be particularly evident in defensive alignment and structure. You defend as a team. Swapping players around guarantees that unity is missing. Especially when the players who are coming in are young and inexperienced. It is a harsh stage to learn how to defend at Premiership standard and no amount of theory and training ground drills will replicate the intensity and pressure of the real thing.

We are defending like strangers at the moment. The players look like they have never played together before.

There is a very good reason for that. They haven't.

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

Malco

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

Malco
Now more than ever with less cap and the squad spread more thinly you cannot win games in the Premiership when you have large numbers of your best players unavailable. It really is as simple as that.

It's unfortunately not a simple as that. The problem wasn't that we got outpowered up front. The problem was that almost every time Irish moved the ball out wide, our outside backs looked terrified and that they didn't have a clue how to defend together. That's where Irish scored all their tries. That's where we lost the game. Attwood, Cloete, Obano, Coetzee, none of them would have made a difference to GHW, JJ, Cokanasiga, Mojo's alignment and panic in defence.

Perhaps it would have helped if De Glanville, Muir, Redpath and Spencer had been in that back line?

De Glanville would have made no difference over Gallagher who was probably our best player. Spencer would have made no difference over Schroeder in outside back defence because he's not an outside back. Muir and Redpath have both been involved in conceding pretty poor scorelines this season.

Our injuries are a problem. They are not the reason why our defensive alignment was so poor, why we missed tackles or why we panicked and made poor defensive decisions. Pretending they are is giving the team and coaches an excuse.

Things are looking up guys. Not one of the above posts is blaming Stuart Hooper.....

Quote:

El Crab
Aside from the rugby, which I haven’t seen so I’ll reserve judgment.
My actual Irish mate (as opposed to a London Irish mate!) was watching today and said there was a really big fight at the end in the crowd.

Hopefully not some of ours…but having seen some recent behaviours at the Rec, I’m fearful.

There was some scuffling in the block next to us in the last ten minutes - but I didn't see any club colours for either team - just one big bloke and another with floppy hair and a waistcoat. I did leave straight after the final whistle tho, so may have missed something. Odd game to get fighty at tho (particularly as getting beer was very difficult as they seemingly had no pumps and only were decanting warm bottles into cups).

I will say it was a pretty good turn out of Bath fans, and the loudest the stadium was was the 'Come On You Bath!' after Gallagher scored. Particular kudos to the Bath fan who turned up with a broken neck to watch that (and, err, apologies that my 4yo kept trying to drape his legs around your shoulders).

Official attendance was 7.8k for a 3pm Saturday kickoff with pretty strong away support. This league is really struggling for fans.

Quote:

Rowancroft73
Things are looking up guys. Not one of the above posts is blaming Stuart Hooper.....

He’s still involved …..I wonder what he’s thinking now !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Without spoiling the result, I watched the Sarrie/Tigers game and it was everything Bath are lacking. Two well coached, good quality squads, great handling skills and aggressive defence. The game was a joy to watch and we can only dream of Bath playing at that level.

I hate to think how many point Tigers and Sarries will score against this lame Bath team.

Beating Bath is P easy. Every opposition team effectively achieves it in 30 minutes.
You fix the midfield and get the ball outside 13. Try. Do it again. Try. Do it again. Try... Ad infinitum (or at least until you get bored).
Bath will, at some point, stage a futile comeback. What's the point when they're 30 down?
It's pathetic.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

Shugs
Seriously guys, what is wrong at Bath. I’m a Wasps fan but can’t believe how a squad like yours performs so badly. The names in the 23 look decent enough - why is it not happening on the field? The league needs a good Bath team so I hope you can turn it round but conceding huge points every week won’t do it. Is it confidence? Ability? Recruitment? Hope you can win a few soon (not at the CBS)!

Why does the league need a good Bath team? The only reason for us to be in the PL at present is to provide other teams with an easy training run.

As for what’s wrong, it’s down to poor recruitment and poor coaching.

Because they are well financed and capable of adding much needed competition and interest in a small league.

Quote:

Shugs

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

Shugs
Seriously guys, what is wrong at Bath. I’m a Wasps fan but can’t believe how a squad like yours performs so badly. The names in the 23 look decent enough - why is it not happening on the field? The league needs a good Bath team so I hope you can turn it round but conceding huge points every week won’t do it. Is it confidence? Ability? Recruitment? Hope you can win a few soon (not at the CBS)!

Why does the league need a good Bath team? The only reason for us to be in the PL at present is to provide other teams with an easy training run.

As for what’s wrong, it’s down to poor recruitment and poor coaching.

Because they are well financed and capable of adding much needed competition and interest in a small league.

With respect I don’t think you’ve seen Bath play, we don’t offer competition to any team in the PL, we are totally out of our depth. Is any non Bath fan really interested in watching us play anymore?

As I have posted for many years after a dismal defeat =
WHAT DO THEY DO ALL WEEK UP AT FARLEIGH?

WHY ISN'T THERE A GAME PLAN THAT WORKS - NO EVIDENCE AT ALL FOR THE GAMES THIS SEASON.

I honestly think our centre pairing is hindering our attacking and defensive game right now. (No, I'm not saying they are at fault for today, just an observation from the last 4 games).

It feels the Ojomoh / Joseph axis is a pragmatic selection. "Need to play Bailey at 10, so let's give him a 12 who they know each others game very well, but oh-no they are both very you g, so let's put Joesph outside them to help them manage the game."

Problem being your defense is being undone when your 12 (Ojomoh) is missing 3, 4 or 5 tackles a game, and you attack stutters when your 13 (Joesph) provides no real threat on the ball and rarely breaks the line these days.

If fit, I'd love to see Bailey and Redpath combo at 10 &12 respectively. I dont think we've seen it very much if at all (as Redpath was injured all last season, while Bailey make his breakthrough into the team.

Outside them I would love to see Butt play 13 for an extended period. He's been impressive carrying the ball and I'd to see him given more opportunity.

I feel the Redpath / Butt combo would be more direct, physically more willing to take the ball to the line and more physical in defense. Redpath can play a bit too, so it wouldn't be all on Bailey to make the plays. Add De Glanville to the mix and you have 3 accomplished ball players.

Last season we were being beaten in the maul, this year we are being found out in the wide defense. So why not be brave and make a wholesale change to the midfield. Give them time to gel and see how that goes. We know what we get from Ojomoh / Joseph and its not working.

Also I've been impressed with the up in workrate of Cokanasiga, it didn't quite come off for him today, but add more ball carrying threats to our midfield and the opposition will be less drawn to Cokanasiga as our own real option right now. It could start to open up for him.

FWIW, my backing

9. Spencer
10. Bailey
11. Muir
12. Redpath
13. Butt
14. Cokanasiga
15. de Glanville

Lastly, I'm not despondent from this start. Van Grann has been dealt a rough hand with injuries. The players are still learning and trusting the new structures that a completely new coaching team is bringing. We'll get there. It's already better than last year, at least we are staying in the fight in the 2nd half.

Quote:

BathSalmon
I honestly think our centre pairing is hindering our attacking and defensive game right now. (No, I'm not saying they are at fault for today, just an observation from the last 4 games).
It feels the Ojomoh / Joseph axis is a pragmatic selection. "Need to play Bailey at 10, so let's give him a 12 who they know each others game very well, but oh-no they are both very you g, so let's put Joesph outside them to help them manage the game."

Problem being your defense is being undone when your 12 (Ojomoh) is missing 3, 4 or 5 tackles a game, and you attack stutters when your 13 (Joesph) provides no real threat on the ball and rarely breaks the line these days.

If fit, I'd love to see Bailey and Redpath combo at 10 &12 respectively. I dont think we've seen it very much if at all (as Redpath was injured all last season, while Bailey make his breakthrough into the team.

Outside them I would love to see Butt play 13 for an extended period. He's been impressive carrying the ball and I'd to see him given more opportunity.

I feel the Redpath / Butt combo would be more direct, physically more willing to take the ball to the line and more physical in defense. Redpath can play a bit too, so it wouldn't be all on Bailey to make the plays. Add De Glanville to the mix and you have 3 accomplished ball players.

Last season we were being beaten in the maul, this year we are being found out in the wide defense. So why not be brave and make a wholesale change to the midfield. Give them time to gel and see how that goes. We know what we get from Ojomoh / Joseph and its not working.

Also I've been impressed with the up in workrate of Cokanasiga, it didn't quite come off for him today, but add more ball carrying threats to our midfield and the opposition will be less drawn to Cokanasiga as our own real option right now. It could start to open up for him.

FWIW, my backing

9. Spencer
10. Bailey
11. Muir
12. Redpath
13. Butt
14. Cokanasiga
15. de Glanville

Lastly, I'm not despondent from this start. Van Grann has been dealt a rough hand with injuries. The players are still learning and trusting the new structures that a completely new coaching team is bringing. We'll get there. It's already better than last year, at least we are staying in the fight in the 2nd half.

Thank you

Just watched the game. Well, we weren't absolutely abysmal but we just spent the first half being a yard short and a second late compared to Wasps London Irish. As soon as Wasps London Irish slowed down in the second half, we looked much better. Albeit, we were losing by absolutely miles by then.

The second half says that there's something for JvG to work with here but it's going to take a season or two decade (and a bunch of an entire team of Saffers, I suspect) to build something that might actually be competitive.

My MotM - Matt Gallagher. He looks like his dad.

PS If the team are just going to phone it in, then so am I.

PPS I'm really glad I watched the Arsenal v Sp*rs game first otherwise I might have been *really* pi$$ed off by that debacle.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:02:04:24:31 by joethefanatic.

I agree with this entirely.

Problem being that it looks as if we won't be seeing Spencer and Redpath for some time.

Quote:

BathSalmon
I honestly think our centre pairing is hindering our attacking and defensive game right now. (No, I'm not saying they are at fault for today, just an observation from the last 4 games).
It feels the Ojomoh / Joseph axis is a pragmatic selection. "Need to play Bailey at 10, so let's give him a 12 who they know each others game very well, but oh-no they are both very you g, so let's put Joesph outside them to help them manage the game."

Problem being your defense is being undone when your 12 (Ojomoh) is missing 3, 4 or 5 tackles a game, and you attack stutters when your 13 (Joesph) provides no real threat on the ball and rarely breaks the line these days.

If fit, I'd love to see Bailey and Redpath combo at 10 &12 respectively. I dont think we've seen it very much if at all (as Redpath was injured all last season, while Bailey make his breakthrough into the team.

Outside them I would love to see Butt play 13 for an extended period. He's been impressive carrying the ball and I'd to see him given more opportunity.

I feel the Redpath / Butt combo would be more direct, physically more willing to take the ball to the line and more physical in defense. Redpath can play a bit too, so it wouldn't be all on Bailey to make the plays. Add De Glanville to the mix and you have 3 accomplished ball players.

Last season we were being beaten in the maul, this year we are being found out in the wide defense. So why not be brave and make a wholesale change to the midfield. Give them time to gel and see how that goes. We know what we get from Ojomoh / Joseph and its not working.

Also I've been impressed with the up in workrate of Cokanasiga, it didn't quite come off for him today, but add more ball carrying threats to our midfield and the opposition will be less drawn to Cokanasiga as our own real option right now. It could start to open up for him.

FWIW, my backing

9. Spencer
10. Bailey
11. Muir
12. Redpath
13. Butt
14. Cokanasiga
15. de Glanville

Lastly, I'm not despondent from this start. Van Grann has been dealt a rough hand with injuries. The players are still learning and trusting the new structures that a completely new coaching team is bringing. We'll get there. It's already better than last year, at least we are staying in the fight in the 2nd half.

Agree with much of what you say bathsalmon and that is indeed a tasty backline with good balance.

I love muir and rmc but coko is making a good case last few games and his carrying is much needed

Leaves a back up selection of schreuder francis ghw mojo jj rmc gallagher which is also good.

I thought spencer just had a slight knee niggle on top of his head knock and due back soon?

What's the issue with cam? He is class but soòoooo injury prone

Blooming hell, yesterday wasn't a nightmare?

Rock bottom is our level at the moment.

[www-somersetlive-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org]

Quote:

charlieboa
https://www-somersetlive-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/bath-rugby-player-ratings-london-7654259.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16646958668866&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.somersetlive.co.uk%2Fsport%2Fother-sport%2Fbath-rugby-player-ratings-london-7654259

Ratings of 8s and 9s for Bath players? Really? I'll have some of what he's smoking cos no one in the BBW deserved more than a 5 for that shambles. You can have 8s and 9s when we score 32 points in the FIRST half of a game. And then go on to actually win it.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

The only figures that really matter are played 4, lost 4 (1 thrashed by 14 players) and 20 tries conceded.

Last season we were bottom because we had no defence coach, we now in theory have a defence coach but he might as well not be there.

I think we've reached an inflection point where the team needs to rethink.

Problem: Our defence isnt good enough to keep playing the constant kick game.
Solution: Keep the ball in hand as much as possible and stop giving the opposition opportunities to test our Defence

Problem: Our defence isnt good enough
Solution: Play Piers Francis at 12. He's a leader on the pitch and our defence is better with him around

Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country

A couple of good pieces in TRP about Callard and Maddock. Also suggestions you're trying to get half the Wuss team on loan!

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BathSalmon
I honestly think our centre pairing is hindering our attacking and defensive game right now.

+1. Also agree with the solution. Neither Max O or JJ would be in my first choice pairing at the moment.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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OldMarovian
A couple of good pieces in TRP about Callard and Maddock. Also suggestions you're trying to get half the Wuss team on loan!

I think we can ignore anything in TRP about player movement as lacking credibility. With Bath being in such a dire situation again this season we will inevitably be linked with pretty much every player known to man. Surprised everyone on this board isn’t being linked as possible signings for Bath!

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hasta

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El Crab
Aside from the rugby, which I haven’t seen so I’ll reserve judgment.
My actual Irish mate (as opposed to a London Irish mate!) was watching today and said there was a really big fight at the end in the crowd.

Hopefully not some of ours…but having seen some recent behaviours at the Rec, I’m fearful.

There was some scuffling in the block next to us in the last ten minutes - but I didn't see any club colours for either team - just one big bloke and another with floppy hair and a waistcoat. I did leave straight after the final whistle tho, so may have missed something. Odd game to get fighty at tho (particularly as getting beer was very difficult as they seemingly had no pumps and only were decanting warm bottles into cups).

I will say it was a pretty good turn out of Bath fans, and the loudest the stadium was was the 'Come On You Bath!' after Gallagher scored. Particular kudos to the Bath fan who turned up with a broken neck to watch that (and, err, apologies that my 4yo kept trying to drape his legs around your shoulders).

Official attendance was 7.8k for a 3pm Saturday kickoff with pretty strong away support. This league is really struggling for fans.

Only 4,200 (inc 300 Bris fans) at Newcastle game friday night too



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:02:10:44:54 by Colonel1960.

I will also add that our energy levels and chase was really pretty substandard in the first half. The number of kick offs where we gave really easy outs (one in particular I think of straight to the Irish scrum half, no chase, no pressure, cleared to beyond halfway) or stupid not rolling away/crossing/in at the side penalties was really really poor.

That's a worry hasta.

The NTR stuff needs to be improved hugely and is the easiest thing to improve in theory.

When you aren't v good at rugby trying hard is even more important

I haven't read it but have just been told there is an interview with JVG in the Rugby Paper this morning in which he is strongly critical of the players, which is an interesting development if true!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:10:02:11:45:24 by Malco.

Every week we seem the same comments about how awful we were, but they all seem to be predicated on the assumption that we are still 'a big club' which we haven't been probably since the early days of professionalism. Since those times we have two wealthy owners whose only claim to fame is to ensure we have not gone bust, aided by a large core of unbelievably loyal supporters.

Unfortunately for whatever reason, both owners have stood by while we went from being one of the top three or four clubs to one of the also rans, holding up the bottom of the table. The strong feeling creeping in right across this board is total apathy and the owner should be very concerned.

It is a shame we were not relegated, I think a spell in the lower division is the only thing that will really reset this club, it will give time to put together a team worthy of the Bath shirt without being hammered every week. It must be equally soul destroying for the players who must know just how far we are behind the top clubs in management and coaching terms, they are constantly re-inventing themselves, whilst we struggle to copy the way they played a few seasons ago.

He isn't Malco. Pretty measured IMO.

"It's another loss so I'm not proud of the performance, but I am proud of the reaction to come back"
"It's simply not good enough and there are no excuses as we have to learn to play for 80 minutes"

Other than that he mentions conceding so many points in the first half, that you can't control injuries and that Bath are looking at bringing some players in. I think he was under-rated at Munster (look at how they've started the season) but will need time at Bath as there's quite a lot to over-haul.

Agree OM.

I have been a bit critical of some jvg interviews in last few weeks but fine with everything he said after yest.

More phlegmatic about the injuries, positive about comeback whilst being clear the performance was again unacceptable and a concern.

My overriding concern is that our current squad seem to have a pretty low ceiling for development. You compare our squad against the best (Saracens) and I cannot see a single position where I think our player is better. Thats a huge worry, considering the two are supposedly paying the same as each other.

Yes, we have a lot of young players (see my backline above for example), but I'm not seeing that they have that explosive power in our squad (not just the backs) that really makes a difference in this league.

That for me is a concern.

Guess we will be tapping into the Warriors squad then, these things are never great and it is horrific the situation both Worcester and Wasps find themselves in but god we need some reinforcements and Warriors have some magnificent players Ted Hill springs to mind straight away and indeed their back row in general not to mention their back line including Duhan Van Der Merwe - one big ball carrier even on the wing .

JVG does need time as does his coaching team - maybe some don’t realise just how bad a mess they walked into .

Agree to a certain extent bathsalmon.

Seem to have moved to often looking stronger on paper but being rubbish to rarely looking better on paper and being rubbish still.

We have had loads of England age group players over the last few years with huge promise. Will be criminal if we can't embed them in the senior squad and get a tune out of them over the next few years.

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OldMarovian
He isn't Malco. Pretty measured IMO.
"It's another loss so I'm not proud of the performance, but I am proud of the reaction to come back"
"It's simply not good enough and there are no excuses as we have to learn to play for 80 minutes"

Other than that he mentions conceding so many points in the first half, that you can't control injuries and that Bath are looking at bringing some players in. I think he was under-rated at Munster (look at how they've started the season) but will need time at Bath as there's quite a lot to over-haul.

Borthwick didn’t need time at Tigers and look what he achieved.

Besides that I’m not sure JvG will want to stick around at Bath for around 10 years to catch-up with the top clubs.

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OutsideBath
Borthwick didn’t need time at Tigers and look what he achieved

Tbf a completely different situation to JVG.
Borthwick is IMO a brilliant coach but him joining Tigers was something of a case of the stars aligning.
He arrived with absolute carte blanche and immediately cleaned out the toxic elements in the coaching team, recruited guys he trusted and broke up the club cliques in the dressing room.
A number of senior players not being prepared to accept salary cuts and him ultimately having to play a season still carrying some of their cap but without them wasn't as disastrous as it might normally be as there was no relegation and with Tigers having the strongest Academy group for an age backing the youth wasn't as huge a call as it might be otherwise. It also meant at a time when players wages were dropping because of Covid had had a nice little nest egg to go and buy some key players with.
Add in a bit of experience in a few International signings and even more with the likes of Wiggle and he further enhance the team and coaching set up.

That all makes it sound pretty simple and I am absolutely sure it wasn't but he had/has the sort of autonomy/blank slate I'd guess JVG can only dream off. I regard what he's done as comparable with Chiefs coming up from the Championship and winning the Premiership with a sustainable business model. Both were/are the result of a great group of people and shrewd investment but I don't believe either have a model that is replicable due to the amount of fortune/happy circumstance that was also needed.

If it is true that the coaches and DoR were too close and cosy with the players in previous seasons then I hope JvG stays critical of the players and creates a different atmosphere, a bit of distance, between them.

I didn't really expect us to 'do a Leicester' in his 1st season but getting that respect and dynamic right in the squad is essential.

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Ali1969
Guess we will be tapping into the Warriors squad then, these things are never great and it is horrific the situation both Worcester and Wasps find themselves in but god we need some reinforcements and Warriors have some magnificent players Ted Hill springs to mind straight away and indeed their back row in general not to mention their back line including Duhan Van Der Merwe - one big ball carrier even on the wing .
JVG does need time as does his coaching team - maybe some don’t realise just how bad a mess they walked into .

B4Lemon

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B4thB4ck
If it is true that the coaches and DoR were too close and cosy with the players in previous seasons then I hope JvG stays critical of the players and creates a different atmosphere, a bit of distance, between them.
I didn't really expect us to 'do a Leicester' in his 1st season but getting that respect and dynamic right in the squad is essential.

Our two biggest names Will Stuart and JJ were hopeless and obviously too comfortable under the old regime. JJ has been way of his best for a long time and defensively has been shocking and Will Stuart just does not seem interested and on Saturday he gave away 4 penalties in a row which helped LI keep up the pressure and the momentum. Ewells was very poor last year as well and with the squeeze of the salary cap JVG hopefully is thinking how many bruising saffers he could bring in on the wages those three alone will be getting. Our so called big names are not turning up and is it because they are big fish and think they should be at a bigger and better club? well big fish don't go missing when the sea gets rough but ours have done and are still doing. I would play the Namibian tight head with Rae on the bench and let Stuart kick his heels and I hope we are trying to get a loosehead and now maybe two second rows from Worcester. The fight and attitude of Worcester in their what could be last game was great to see and i feel very sad for the players who have been treated appallingly by the owners who should hang their head in shame.

Keep hearing about how Toxic it is at Bath.

Not sure how you fix that if true.

When I see the team/squad I’m thinking those are great rugby players but am I wearing tinted glasses and need to reassess. Are our international’s really first choice in their respective international teams or are there injuries making them the next cab off the rank. Not picking on anyone and I know he isn’t an international but would OB displace any other first choice fly half’s in the Premiership, would Piers be second choice in any other club.

Do I need to downgrade my assessment of Bath players?

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Reccing Ball
When I see the team/squad I’m thinking those are great rugby players but am I wearing tinted glasses and need to reassess. Are our international’s really first choice in their respective international teams or are there injuries making them the next cab off the rank. Not picking on anyone and I know he isn’t an international but would OB displace any other first choice fly half’s in the Premiership, would Piers be second choice in any other club.
Do I need to downgrade my assessment of Bath players?

We're bottom of the table and we haven't won a game. We were bottom of the table at the end of last season. I think the answer may be "yes".

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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Reccing Ball
When I see the team/squad I’m thinking those are great rugby players but am I wearing tinted glasses and need to reassess. Are our international’s really first choice in their respective international teams or are there injuries making them the next cab off the rank. Not picking on anyone and I know he isn’t an international but would OB displace any other first choice fly half’s in the Premiership, would Piers be second choice in any other club.
Do I need to downgrade my assessment of Bath players?

Definitely.

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Reccing Ball
would OB displace any other first choice fly half’s in the Premiership

Well Tian Schoeman started for Newcastle last week (and Connon the week before), Harvey Skinner seems to be the regular at Exeter, Atkinson is the Wasps 10. Are you suggesting that OB is significantly worse than any of those? OK he's not Marcus Smith, George Ford or Owen Farrell, but he can hold his own amongst the rest IMO.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Whatever our problems, Orlando Bailey is nowhere near chief among them. Which isn't to say he couldn't work on his goal kicking somewhat.

I don’t think you can pinpoint individual players, though JJ has been curiously ineffective for years. There is a huge lack of confidence which courses through the team whenever they play a competitive game. They may well be completely different in training. One of the features of that is a lack of pace & sharpness & an inability to do things intuitively. It may also be to try to over compensate when things are going wrong, leading to penalties & injuries. It must be an issue for a sports psychologist as much as JvG but it must be very hard to address. It will be interesting to see if these 4 if all selected would be similarly affected. I wouldn’t mind thinking that it wouldn’t take long for that to be the case though may be they could be a positive influence & have a positive influence on this malaise.

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Bath Hammer
It will be interesting to see if these 4 if all selected would be similarly affected.

At the back of their minds I'm sure that all 4 will think that they are potentially playing for a new contract in a months time if the worst happens. I would guess that they will be playing out of their skins.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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Bath Blues
Keep hearing about how Toxic it is at Bath.
Not sure how you fix that if true.

Before you can fix something, you need to know what the specific problem is.

So, 'what is it that is causing this alleged toxic atmosphere at the club?' would be my first question

Possibly there is still some residual deep hangover from last year's unhappy ship, but wouldn't a win do a hell of a lot to counter that?

The toxicity could go back to the nasty farce of the Sam Burgess RFU/Bath Rugby press gang and the contempt shown for the rest of the playing squad - but I suspect it has more to do with the more recent armchair rides given to lauding "stars" who no longer pull their weight or salary or deserve their selection on the team sheet and whose unmerited automatic inclusion (if fit) inevitably means a younger or new incoming squad member doesn't get their chance. Add terrible coaching, confused and always ineffectual game plans, an absence of club style, ethos and culture and it all gets very poisonous indeed. Bath is not a team that seems to like each other very much. And when they get out, they seem to flourish (Zac, Faleteau, Burns, Ford, etc and all the way back to Abendenon.)

In my view the toxicity goes all the way back to the drugs scandal.

There has been a fundamental fracturing of the squad, lack of trust and togetherness ever since.

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Deckchair
The toxicity could go back to the nasty farce of the Sam Burgess RFU/Bath Rugby press gang and the contempt shown for the rest of the playing squad - but I suspect it has more to do with the more recent armchair rides given to lauding "stars" who no longer pull their weight or salary or deserve their selection on the team sheet and whose unmerited automatic inclusion (if fit) inevitably means a younger or new incoming squad member doesn't get their chance. Add terrible coaching, confused and always ineffectual game plans, an absence of club style, ethos and culture and it all gets very poisonous indeed. Bath is not a team that seems to like each other very much. And when they get out, they seem to flourish (Zac, Faleteau, Burns, Ford, etc and all the way back to Abendenon.)

Ford, Zach and Bendy were all playing very well here anyway. Faletau has apparently made a good start at Cardiff but I'll wait a bit longer to pass judgement. Burns is playing behind a very good pack and in a well coached team. I'm not sure about this talk of toxicity as I've seen no recent evidence for it. Players leaving here tend to do better because they've moved to better teams. We're all looking for a particular overriding factor to explain our longstanding mediocrity. If I had to pick one it's that we've been too 'nice' for ages. Not enough nasty, in your face leaders who drive standards. In the days when we were successful there were several Bath players who were arrogant and rather unpleasant tbh, but they were great players and there was a hard culture within the side. I think Sarries have had that for a while. We certainly don't!