BACK TO THE FUTURE? BATH v LEICESTER

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:15:08:37:48 by P G Tips.

A couple of corrections about Tigers squad

Genge now a Bristol player.

Wiese on international duty with SA

Chessum and Pollard injured.

Possible Tigers 23

Watson
Ashton
Potter
Scott
Nadolo

Burns
Wigglesworth

Cronin
Clare
Cole
Wells
Green
Martin
Liebenberg (c)
Cracknell

Vanes
Whitcombe
Hurd
Henderson
Jansen/Ilione
Edwards
Atkinson
Porter/Gopperth

Thanks Tigers

Caught me napping there. Have amended to reflect your propsed 23.

PG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:08:13:01:49 by P G Tips.

Scott possibly out injured too.
Snyman should be involved at least on the bench.

Hoping that Ben may be back.

Pretty sure Aranos Coetzee has been called up for Namibia squad.
Still no update on Lewis Boyce? We could do with his experience against Dan Cole.

adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.

One of the fixtures you look for when the list comes out, lots of history between two fine sides, both a bit unpredictable at the moment, but as always, bound to be a feisty match with the inevitable bit of controversy.

Quote:

tigerburnie
One of the fixtures you look for when the list comes out, lots of history between two fine sides, both a bit unpredictable at the moment, but as always, bound to be a feisty match with the inevitable bit of controversy.

That's a great match review in a nutshell tb

Guy Porter has been retained by Eddie as his 25th man. I take it all back. Thanks for everything, Eddie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:10:10:34:29 by dr.bath1865.

Big Joe a travelling reserve, or can he play for us? Be handy to play an actual winger on the wing tomorrow night.

5 leic and 0 bath is a bonus.

No idea if we get Joe back though...

Taem Up. Spencer & Bailey return:


Bath Rugby side to play Leicester Tigers

15 Jamie Shillcock, 14 Will Butt, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Ollie Lawrence, 11 Matt Gallagher, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ben Spencer ©; 1 Valeriy Morozov, 2 Niall Annett, 3 D’Arcy Rae, 4 Fergus Lee-Warner, 5 Quinn Roux, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Richard de Carpentier

Impact players

16 Tom Dunn, 17 Arthur Cordwell, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Tom Ellis, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Max Green, 22 Cameron Redpath, 23 Wesley White

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Tiggers;

STARTING XV:
15 Anthony Watson [3]
14 Chris Ashton [17]
13 Harry Potter [46]
12 Matt Scott [51]
11 Nemani Nadolo [41]
10 Freddie Burns [108]
9 Richard Wigglesworth (vc) [39]
1 James Cronin [6]
2 Charlie Clare [58]
3 Dan Cole (vc) [296]
4 Harry Wells [162]
5 Calum Green [95]
6 George Martin [44]
7 Hanro Liebenberg (c) [65]
8 Olly Cracknell [6]

REPLACEMENTS:
16 Tom Cowan-Dickie [9]
17 Francois van Wyk [22]
18 Will Hurd [12]
19 Eli Snyman [23]
20 Sean Jansen [7]
21 Sam Edwards [7] **
22 Charlie Atkinson *
23 Phil Cokanasiga [5]

Blimey - injuries, Autumn Ints - and we still put out a 23 with players as good as Redpath, Dunn, Ellis and Bayliss on the bench. Friday night at the Rec - got to be a decent evening in prospect.

Tigers have put out a surprisingly strong 15.

Super strong team from Tigers

This is JJ's opportunity to show what he can do in a better-functioning team/midfield. Would really, really love it if he was fully switched on by the challenge. Apart from anything, would show some good man-management by JVG.

Blimey, I thought we had a good chance of winning this weekend when I saw how many call ups they've got. But now? That is a very strong Tigers side. Would take a one point win.

Considering how many they've got away with England, their team is absolutely frightening.

I'd have liked to see Redpath starting with Lawrence but appreciate he's been away with Scotland. JJ I'm sure could do a job on the wing which would've allowed Gallagher to remain at FB. Annett over Dunny in a game like this is slightly puzzling but at least we have some decent options off the bench (like them).

So good to see Spencer back! A big ask to win this one, but having him in the side makes me slightly more confident.

is Ojomoh injured?

Wonderful to have Spencer back. He will add a tonne. Bailey, too. As well as Worboys did in adversity, this was supposed to be Orlando's breakthrough season, our out-and-out 10, so excited to see what he can do versus Burns in a team that is playing with quite a bit of structure and heart. He'll enjoy having Lawrence outside him, and it'll be interesting to see how he goes at 12. As Opti says, we should see more from JJ, with a carrying centre inside him, and after a spell on the sidelines. Wings a bit makeshift, but won't let us down and Shillock has looked class every time I've seen him play.

Big pack, just a shame one or two others were available. Attwood a big loss on a heavy pitch on a Friday night v Tigers, but still good depth on the bench.

Strong Tigers team but even with their internationals they've been beaten by a few this season. Excited to see how we match up to them. Hopefully, a full Rec on a dry Friday evening will be the 16th man and get us over the line.

Quote:

by
Tigers have put out a surprisingly strong 15.

I'd amend that to a surprisingly very strong 23

Is Worboys injured? If not it’s a little harsh to bring back Bailey to replace him.

Worboys was subbed on 60 at Newcastle so possibly. I suspect they want their best team back. Bailey's injury was facial I think, so wouldn't have list fitness.

Mmm, would rather 9 and 10 had a run out before starting this one, hope that goes ok.
Our team looks a bit scratch, some good names but shifted around position wise in the backs.

Don't think it's harsh on Worboys at all. He'll know his place in the pecking order. Bailey is our first choice 10. When he's fit (and not in stinking form), he plays. Potentially an argument for Worboys on the bench, but Cam is an international in good form who can cover 10.

Spencer is also a better goal kicking option.

Worboya is young, he doesn't need to be sent in every week unless necessary. Better ways to manage his progression. It's not like it's form-related as Dunn isn't starting either even though form would demand it.

I like the spin the offy are putting on it with 'van Graan having opted for a 6:2 split' rather than going for the fact we have run out of outside backs

Decent 23 given we have about 25 missing.

Leic look as strong as I expected based on squad they were able to name at the weekend for a friendly. Think they have the edge on paper.

I think spencer and Bailey straight back in is the right call personally.

Last men standing at loosehead, lock and back 3.

Great opportunity for shillcock to try and get an extended deal or a contract for next season- highly rated utility back, definitely has an appeal.

If Tigers can dominate up front it will be the old adage of the forwards winning the game, but that's no mug side you lads have assembled, it's gonna be close me thinks.
Less than one score between the sides since you've found some mojo, but I fancy we can nick it.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Don't think it's harsh on Worboys at all. He'll know his place in the pecking order. Bailey is our first choice 10. When he's fit (and not in stinking form), he plays. Potentially an argument for Worboys on the bench, but Cam is an international in good form who can cover 10.

I’ve been more impressed with Worboys in the couple of games he’s played than Bailey. I think he was worth keeping his place in the team if he was fit of course.

I think Bailey is quality and relatively experienced now having plated first team rugby for 2 years.

Also physically pretty robust if they start running Scott, nadalo etc into the 10 channel.

His goalkicking has gone a bit haywire but as others have said spencer is an option if needed.

Great that worboys has been given a chance and is in the debate

So frustrating attwood is banned. Stick him in that team with just 1 or 2 others and I would be confident.

I think we only have 3 or 4 starting of a 'cup final team'.

Quote:

The Bear
Worboys is young, he doesn't need to be sent in every week unless necessary. Better ways to manage his progression. It's not like it's form-related as Dunn isn't starting either even though form would demand it.

Interestingly:

Bailey DOB: 30 September 2001
Worboys DOB: 21st March 2001

Worboys has the skills but unlike Bailey looks a little small on the Premiership rugby field for me. Yes I know Ford and Smith also look small but they have some world class points of difference (brain and speed).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I can perfectly understand Annett starting and Dunn on the bench - the reserve front row is lacking experience and arguably power compared to the starting front row - Dunnie is heavier (despite the Offy having them at the same weight - I am reliably informed Dunnie is heavier) and arguably more powerful than Niall - however Niall is a ball playing hooker (akin to Schalk Brits) so to bring on the replacement front row of Cordwell and Jonker it makes sense to have Dunnie to guide them with his experience and passion.

I would also add that Niall has been brilliant when he has come onto the pitch and offers something completely different to Dunnie - his lineout stats/throw also is better which will be imperative against Tigers.

IMHO and takng off my partisan hat - there really is not much between Tom or Niall they are both exceptional No 2's and we are lucky to have them.

Bath look much weaker on paper and with Tigers having a couple of players who intensely dislike Bath I can see this being a really heavy defeat.

If it doesn’t rain and we don’t get any further injuries it will be a successful night.

Ooh its on BT! I expect Bath to lose this one, but hopefully its close

It’s great not to expect to concede 50+ points in a game like this but we may need fortune to go our way to pull off a win.

Tigers power game just looks too much. How did they end up losing 3 games this season.

Spencer is too slow at the breakdown and kicking to much ball away. Our backs can't get going with him there. A change is needed imho...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Seriously strange interprettions from TMO - ignored head hit on Butt, ignored clear shoulder to head just now (no head contact - what?)
Foley ignoring the offside line - do TJ's and refs really not know what 'back foot of the ruck' means?
Also clear forward pass in build up to their second try.

Our lineout not doing us any favours either mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:11:22:53:11 by CoochieCoo.

A d now the most blatant deliberate knock down by Freddie is just a penalty? Yet 99% of accidental ones are yellows?

Think there’s a rule change about deliberate knock ons and yellow cards. Not definite yellow now unless a line break and/or scoring opportunity.

What’s worse than the ref is out restart work.

But, anyway, fact we’re this competitive is hugely encouraging. Enormously spirited performance.

Corner turned!

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

OMG yyyyyeeeeessssss!!

Ted Hill is as top, top man!

Goodness me.

Brilliant from Will Butt. That was as good a finish as you will ever see at any level.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Think there’s a rule change about deliberate knock ons and yellow cards. Not definite yellow now unless a line break and/or scoring opportunity.
What’s worse than the ref is out restart work.

But, anyway, fact we’re this competitive is hugely encouraging. Enormously spirited performance.

But when it is such a cynical knock down it has to be yellow, or the laws become even more stupid. So often out wide there has been an attempt to knock the ball up, not down , yet that is yellow, but a deliberate knock down isn't yellow?

Get In!!!!! Stay in the fight and give yourself a chance, well done boys.

Quote:

Malco
Brilliant from Will Butt. That was as good a finish as you will ever see at any level.

Agreed, world class and a worthy winning score...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Well we left a lot of points out there, well played Barf.

That one’s for you ‘King of Bath’.

Quote:

OutsideBath
Bath look much weaker on paper and with Tigers having a couple of players who intensely dislike Bath I can see this being a really heavy defeat.
If it doesn’t rain and we don’t get any further injuries it will be a successful night.

That’s the spirit OB, positive outlook!😜

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Quote:

by
Tigers power game just looks too much. How did they end up losing 3 games this season.

This aged well

Brilliant win, that final play was sublime.

Hope the fans give them a reason to win

Our line outs were poor but the scrum pens picked up important ground as the arm wrestle was not going to work.

That was a win full of guts and skill. Tigers will regret not scoring points when they were dominant but the effort to produce that dominance came with a cost later in the game to our benefit.

I would like to see Spencer get the ball away from the base of the ruck quicker as we have some serious pace and threat in midfield now, also in the back row.

Brilliant win, that should give some great belief through the squad, a champagne moment for Butt, class finish.

Things are coming together. Scrum good, lineout average but so many 2nd row missing, defence much better, hints of attacking patterns but above all attitude exceptional.

Spencer, Bailey and Lawrence could be a combination that sets us up. More forward beef please but so pleased with that result.

Guts, calmness under pressure and real togetherness.

Our line out wasn't bad actually - just theirs was excellent, especially their spoil. Their restarts were also brilliant.
Great great win. So much spirit. Happy

What. A. Win. What enormous fun. After the horror and misery of last season, much deserved for all involved, and especially the fans who have stuck at it through thick and thin. The sound at the end tonight sounded like a mixture of delight, relief and no little redemption.

Can’t remember the last time we won in the last minute. We’ve tried and failed a few times of late, and it’s happened it the league a fair bit, so amazing to see us have the belief to sneak one. Huge cahoonas by Butt to back himself and go for the corner. A lesser man would’ve cut back inside. Even bigger nuts from Gallagher to ping that left footed kick down the left touchline to within 7 metres.

Guts, desire, belief all round. So much individually and collectively to be admired. Thank you, JvG.

Never in doubt!

P G Tips


Jaco Coetzee: my adopted Player, 2023-24.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Goodness me.

That made oi larf

Just watched the game. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

That was a real game of rugby and a huge pleasure to watch. Even before the last 30 seconds, we'd exceeded my expectations. We went toe-to-toe with the Tigs and we didn't blink, we didn't bite,
we didn't fold - we just got right back in their faces again and again. Just outstanding team spirit and an outstanding team performance. Any number of players played out of their skins and the front row units changed the game with their performance in the scrum but there is no doubt in my mind that that win was based on the performance of one player more than any of the others...

My MotM - Ollie Lawrence. When we needed someone to turn the tide and put doubt in the Tigs' defence's mind, he delivered. Every time. Sadly, we are going to lose him to Eddie so lets enjoy him while we can.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

Dorset Boy
Seriously strange interprettions from TMO - ignored head hit on Butt, ignored clear shoulder to head just now (no head contact - what?)
Foley ignoring the offside line - do TJ's and refs really not know what 'back foot of the ruck' means?
Also clear forward pass in build up to their second try.

Our lineout not doing us any favours either mind.

There were times when Foley and Rosey were doing a weird comedy double act on ref link - it was as if they were watching different games. And at the end Rosey seemed determined to get to the bottom of what had caused the argy bargy and Foley just wanted to allow the conversion kick and blow the whistle.

Good to see the belief building - not long ago we'd have let them score the try at the death, throwing away the losing bonus point



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:11:22:58:32 by CoochieCoo.

I have to say that Hill, Lawrence and Fergus Lee-Warner are absolute class.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

So what did cause the handbags? I was watching at my local rugby club where the sound was not great and the pictures alone were not clear, at first I thought I was watching a replay of a driving maul!

Quote:

B4thB4ck
So what did cause the handbags? I was watching at my local rugby club where the sound was not great and the pictures alone were not clear, at first I thought I was watching a replay of a driving maul!

Foley seemed of the opinion that it was just the 2 nines getting in each other's faces. What Bill McLaren would have called a bit of ill tempered argy bargy

Looked like Redpath was shouting at Tigers and Burns came running in.

Redpath and Wigglesworth going at it for a few seconds before everyone moved into hold onto their opposite number’s collar. Redpath quite ‘chopsy’ as they say.

Heart in mouth for a moment as a (not 100% sure on the laws around timekeeping) bit a bit of stupidity from a Bath player could’ve meant Tigers penalty and a restart.

Quote:

BathMatt53
I have to say that Hill, Lawrence and Fergus Lee-Warner are absolute class.

It was a good performance all round really. JJ turned up. Jonker and Cordwell (again) had a big impact from the bench. Roux and Spencer gave everything.

The first half was rope-a-dope but we really started to get the better of them in the second half.

Cracknell and Martin played brilliantly for Tigers. No idea how the latter isn't playing for England tomorrow.

Random question - can any one explain why Quinn Roux plays with his boots bandaged onto his feet??

Not seen him mentioned (and apologies - have been lurking on your board since a few of our former players joined you) - so think worth saying Shilly had a good game while on. Steamrollered for first Tiggers try (who wouldn't have been) but thought some of his defensive work was excellent. Hold onto him if you can (although please feel free to let us have them all back safe and well in a few years).

Keeping an eye on those "formerly of this parish" is tough, but delighted to see them still playing and showing how good they are and we could have been this year.

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Spencer is too slow at the breakdown and kicking to much ball away. Our backs can't get going with him there. A change is needed imho...

Still think that Clarkey?

Quote:

WarriorsMisfit
Not seen him mentioned (and apologies - have been lurking on your board since a few of our former players joined you) - so think worth saying Shilly had a good game while on. Steamrollered for first Tiggers try (who wouldn't have been) but thought some of his defensive work was excellent. Hold onto him if you can (although please feel free to let us have them all back safe and well in a few years).
Keeping an eye on those "formerly of this parish" is tough, but delighted to see them still playing and showing how good they are and we could have been this year.

Don't lurk, post The more we know about our new boys (your old boys) the better.

And you're right Shillcock looked very good indeed.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

Malco
Brilliant from Will Butt. That was as good a finish as you will ever see at any level.

+1

Top class stuff

Quote:

dannyf2
Our line out wasn't bad actually - just theirs was excellent, especially their spoil. Their restarts were also brilliant.
Great great win. So much spirit. Happy

Yep, that's how I saw it

Quote:

Susanne

Quote:

Dorset Boy
Seriously strange interprettions from TMO - ignored head hit on Butt, ignored clear shoulder to head just now (no head contact - what?)
Foley ignoring the offside line - do TJ's and refs really not know what 'back foot of the ruck' means?
Also clear forward pass in build up to their second try.

Our lineout not doing us any favours either mind.

There were times when Foley and Rosey were doing a weird comedy double act on ref link - it was as if they were watching different games. And at the end Rosey seemed determined to get to the bottom of what had caused the argy bargy and Foley just wanted to allow the conversion kick and blow the whistle.

Good to see the belief building - not long ago we'd have let them score the try at the death, throwing away the losing bonus point

That's a really good insight and explains a lot that makes a hell of lot of sense

Yes, Shillcock does look a class player. Have always looked nervously at the Wuss teamsheet to see if he is there and far prefer him in the BBW. Pains me to say, but I actually prefer him over Watson ...

OK, have thought about that for a moment ... and yep still do. Ant did nothing tonight that said we had made a mistake in letting him go to Tiggers

Massively envious of all who could be there. Hell of a game and hell of an atmosphere - it'll live long in the memory.

Mentally we seem to have turned a corner. When Watson intercepted what otherwise would have been a certain try, Spencer had his head in his hands in disappointment/disbelief. But the team did not stop believing and that they went for the 'pull' move, as van Graan put it, hints at a huge mental shift

Also not a fan of Rose and Foley's post-hoc legitimisation of high tackles. I don't really want games changed by yellow or red cards but penalties should have been awarded - even if it is a bit awkward to renege on a decision you made some time ago.

Been quite some time since the Rec sounded that good. The crowd does have a voice after all.

Surprised Butns didn’t get a yellow card for his deliberate knock on 10 minutes from the end.

There should still be more to come. When we have pen advantage in the red zone we are still trying to smash the door down with the backs all set too narrow and slow ball off the ruck, quite easy to defend. As soon as the advantage is given we should make better use of the free play, we have the pace to make it count.
Enjoyed seeing Nadolo outpaced by Hill for his try!

Really, really happy with that. 'Hard to beat', indeed Johann!!

Three under-the-radar points:

1. Gallagher!!!!! Not just that incredible kick, not just everything this season, but also the pass to Butt for the win. I know everyone talks up the Wuss boys as well they should, but Gallagher is like Matt Perry 2.0
2. JvG tactics - being able to bring on Dunn and Bayliss late on is great. Honestly really good selection and tactics.
3. Arthur Cordwell - fully stabilised and then dominated the scrum, created the platform for the win. Really, really impressed at his development. Probs a feather for Hatley.

That was a phenomenal achievement & one of the most exciting matches I can recall. JvG & his coaches has had a massive effect & changed things so much for the better that I remained confident throughout that we might get a win. Even so we would probably not have gained three wins without those Warriors, though we deserved some luck with the ridiculous number of injuries we have suffered. A final word.. I have been extremely critical of Hatley remaining.. I shouldn’t have been. He has transformed the forwards & deserves great credit.

3 wins in a row!
What a change in terms of evident belief and quality of play from Bath. Good to see both ex-Sarries boys having strong games, I mentioned at the time what quality Gallagher was and he continues to show it game after game. The Wuss lads massive again, not sure any team have made a better signing this season in terms of immediate impact than Lawrence.
Also a good win in the sense it felt a game that Tigers probably should have won with a bit to spare but having not taken those chances for Bath to hang in there and then win it in the last minutes was great to see

Came back and watched the game again and for my pennies worth it was a brilliant win by the match 23 and the attitude of the Worcester boys has been magnificent from the day they arrived. Ted Hills MOM interview shows what it means to them to be given this opportunity.

I was also surprised Cordwell did not start after his performance against Newcastle when he Dunn and Rae really dominated in the second half. I hope Rae's injury is not serious as he put his body on the line with a couple of monster hits when Leicester were trying to physically dominate us and ultimately failed. JVG obviously wanted to match their physicality and experience and who can question his tactics when our bench came on dominated their bench.

Wholeheartedly agree that Gallagher has been absolute class and that kick into the corner was incredible as was Shillcocks catch spin away and clearance. I could on go on but we really are developing a squad which is growing in confidence and increasingly competitive for starting places. Every coach in every team sport wants two quality players in each position.

Early days but I think that we are getting there based on performances and when you consider who are not available. For example at fullback we have TDG, Gallagher and Shillcock who we have only seen a few glimpses of what he has to offer so far. TDG is a very good player in his own right but fighting it out with these two will make him a great player.

Happy days at last and so good to see the rec in full voice and bouncing again on a Friday night under the lights

Well, “back to the future” was an expression of hope that we would summon up the spirit of previous Bath:Tigers clashes, but did I expect quite such a replica? No.

Shades of 1989 & 97 Cup Finals ( when the cup mattered).

Wonderful finale.

PG

Burns having a few heated words with a spectator at the end and was having to be restrained by team mates ,medics and Waterboys.

Quote:

southgate
Burns having a few heated words with a spectator at the end and was having to be restrained by team mates ,medics and Waterboys.

He also flicked a finger at fans after missing the easy kick just before half time, which should be investigated by the premiership. He should have been able to rise above the stick he took, but is just too precious.

wow, enjoying my hangover!! brilliant night.
All the usuals were great but hat tipped to Rae, Jonker and RDC who really stepped up.

adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.

Quote:

gaz59

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Spencer is too slow at the breakdown and kicking to much ball away. Our backs can't get going with him there. A change is needed imho...

Still think that Clarkey?

Yes. He was blowing really hard in the last quarter and his box kicking was off. Great cover moment got us out of trouble but glad Green was on for the final minutes who used the ball well in out last attacking phase. One stat on the telly coverage was Tigers ruck speed c2seconds, Bath c6 while Spencer was on....

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

southgate
Burns having a few heated words with a spectator at the end and was having to be restrained by team mates ,medics and Waterboys.

He also flicked a finger at fans after missing the easy kick just before half time, which should be investigated by the premiership. He should have been able to rise above the stick he took, but is just too precious.

Actually it was a thumbs up to the Bath Supporters , he was enjoying the banter

Widcombe Garçon

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

southgate
Burns having a few heated words with a spectator at the end and was having to be restrained by team mates ,medics and Waterboys.

He also flicked a finger at fans after missing the easy kick just before half time, which should be investigated by the premiership. He should have been able to rise above the stick he took, but is just too precious.

I am not a fan of Burns but this is not correct, he was actually smiling and giving the thumbs up, it was right in front of us.

Quote:

Widcombe Boy

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

southgate
Burns having a few heated words with a spectator at the end and was having to be restrained by team mates ,medics and Waterboys.

He also flicked a finger at fans after missing the easy kick just before half time, which should be investigated by the premiership. He should have been able to rise above the stick he took, but is just too precious.

Actually it was a thumbs up to the Bath Supporters , he was enjoying the banter

Have to say from our seat it really didn’t look like a thumb and the look on his face wasn’t of someone enjoying the banter.

So, what can you say about that game, and especially the finish. The last try against Tiggs was worth the price of the season ticket alone.

Shilcock, Gallagher, Lawrence, Hill, all outstanding. Dunner as an impact sub brilliant, every single player did their bit. The atmosphere was amazing.

Great evening, @nd still gassed this morning.

Quote:

Clarkey3k

Quote:

gaz59

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Spencer is too slow at the breakdown and kicking to much ball away. Our backs can't get going with him there. A change is needed imho...

Still think that Clarkey?

Yes. He was blowing really hard in the last quarter and his box kicking was off. Great cover moment got us out of trouble but glad Green was on for the final minutes who used the ball well in out last attacking phase. One stat on the telly coverage was Tigers ruck speed c2seconds, Bath c6 while Spencer was on....

Tiger were going forward with every carry, whereas we weren’t. That’s why our ruck speed was so slow.

Quote:

WarriorsMisfit
(and apologies - have been lurking on your board since a few of our former players joined you)

Absolutely no apology needed, you're very welcome. We will always welcome insight and a bit of bants. Please keep posting until Worcester can (hopefully) be back in your own right. We may be very reluctant to let you have some of those lads back though

But we did have a noticeable pause at times, with hands on the ball ready to come out. It sounds a harsh criticism but when the ball did come out quick it meant the Tigers defence was just a bit less organised.
Spencer has all the class required, just something to work on in training.

Even if there was a delay in get the ball out the pass was fast, long, flat and accurate.

Once again we won a match and won it with a decent dollop of luck. The psychology of winning and losing is endemic, and finally we seem to have changed from a team who’s heads would drop within the first quarter of a match to one that is starting to believe in itself.

Green shoots really are appearing.

I agree luck was on our side in the first half but there seemed like only one team was in the game in the second. It was a game of two halves in pundit speak.

Well done to whoever edited the highlights to include the pre match commemoration ceremony.

[www.rugbypass.com]
Interesting piece on Rugbypass. From the outside it sometimes felt like a certain complacency was a bit of Baths previous issue. With these different times and the Wuss guys telling them how it could be maybe that's been part of the wake-up?

Quote:

Clarkey3k

Quote:

gaz59

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Clarkey3k
Spencer is too slow at the breakdown and kicking to much ball away. Our backs can't get going with him there. A change is needed imho...

Still think that Clarkey?

Yes. He was blowing really hard in the last quarter and his box kicking was off. Great cover moment got us out of trouble but glad Green was on for the final minutes who used the ball well in out last attacking phase. One stat on the telly coverage was Tigers ruck speed c2seconds, Bath c6 while Spencer was on....

That's harsh. I really don't think you can blame the scrum half for slow ball from ruck. Tiggers are as good as anyone at slowing down opponent's ball and the main responsibility rests with the forwards to clear it out quicker. If Spencer is kicking then I'd bet it is the coach's game plan

And "blowing really hard in last quarter"? Well give the guy a break he is only just back after a significant period out injured

I think we are being harsh but in a positive way, we can see the next step. Last night was probably the most enjoyable finish I have seen for a long time but we could also see how difficult we find the arm wrestle at the rucks.
We have very quick back rows and a great set of backs now, pausing with hands on ball does not help us get through the phases, it doesnt play to our strengths.
I am not blaming Spencer, he needs to see a pod set up to pass to.
This will come, I am confident we will continue to progress if we have a bit more luck with injuries. The impact of the Worcs players has been stunning and the squad look very together.

Still buzzing. Best Friday Night Lights in yonks. Even more satisfying than the last gasp Bristol win last season. We were saying all game that we just needed to hang in there and we'd get a shot at the win. I thought we'd lost it when Watson intercepted that pass with 5 minutes to go... but what a finish. Take a bow, Will Butt. Fabulous strength, agility and awareness.

Cordwell deserves a lot of praise for the last scrum penalty and, my word, Matt Gallagher can kick a ball.

It wasn't always pretty but after the last few seasons dross, we look like a real team playing and working hard for each other. JVG should enjoy his breakfast this morning.

Haven't enjoyed a game at the Rec since we beat Tigers 45-0 (if my memory is correct) and never heard so much noise. I was hugely impressed with the calmness and methodical way they all went about the game, especially when Tigers looked like getting clear, but the defensive play to stop tigers in the first half was brilliant (with a little dose of luck)

Are injuries have proved good fortune in being able to bring in the Warriors players who have added a huge amount and seem to have given much more confidence to everybody.

I too was shouting at Spencer to move the ball more quickly and give the backs a chance, but I am sure he was under orders and certainly gave his all, he was completely knackered when he went off.

Great night, a lot of teams will be revising their opinion of Bath after that performance and although I only re-watched the last ten minutes it was nice to hear Austin Healey, not usually known for his enthusiasm for Bath, giving us full credit for the win

Wow, what a win.

Not just any old win but against Tiggers coached by Borthwick! Even I am beginning to think we have turned a corner and it wasn't a "one match" wonder. Have to say that the Worcs players whole attitude has galvanised the morale of the existing players, as its difficult to pin point anything else much. Apart from all too obvious bally difference in the Coaching set up from previous deplorable seasons. Onwards and upwards, no place for complacency. Its hard to grasp that we are above so many previously excellent teams in the league.

[www.somersetlive.co.uk] - Just in case you want to change the wallpaper on your screensaver!

Quote:

Mike the Taxi
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/butt-scores-sensational-late-try-7813246 - Just in case you want to change the wallpaper on your screensaver!

Small matter of beating a Lions Test winger to score

Just let that sink in for a moment or two

Should have the ball in 2 hands ;-)

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Clarkey3k

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Malco
Brilliant from Will Butt. That was as good a finish as you will ever see at any level.

Agreed, world class and a worthy winning score...

As good as it was, I don’t think these acrobatic tries are “world class” anymore. Players train for them, and they’re quite common to see. That’s not to detract from it and the outcome, but more of an observation.

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OldMarovian
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/what-worcester-contingent-told-colleagues-as-they-boost-bath/
Interesting piece on Rugbypass. From the outside it sometimes felt like a certain complacency was a bit of Baths previous issue. With these different times and the Wuss guys telling them how it could be maybe that's been part of the wake-up?

Hah, Borthers still crabbing on about call ups when our injury list is twice that and has a fair few internationals in it as well. Just makes the victory even sweeter.

It’s not just the placement, which takes an incredible amount of skill. He had to shrug off two defenders to score, one an international lion.

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Rawce

Quote:

OldMarovian
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/what-worcester-contingent-told-colleagues-as-they-boost-bath/
Interesting piece on Rugbypass. From the outside it sometimes felt like a certain complacency was a bit of Baths previous issue. With these different times and the Wuss guys telling them how it could be maybe that's been part of the wake-up?

Hah, Borthers still crabbing on about call ups when our injury list is twice that and has a fair few internationals in it as well. Just makes the victory even sweeter.

Saw those comments on the BBC site, not very classy comments from him.

He does whinge but to be fair to him his point is that it's absurd that so many international and Prem games clash. Financial rewards aside he's noting there's little reward in having international players, a point many on here have made. Injuries are largely a matter of luck, the schedule isn't.
As to the notion that Bath's recent failings were down to complacency-how can you be complacent if you're getting hammered every week? (Perhaps I should read the link?!).

Sitting in thw stands injured- Stuart, Ewels, Underhill. All capped from Bath.

Where does Borthers get “a team that produces internationals against one which doesn’t” from?

PG

Tigers missing several players who are representing England, we were missing JC. We also missed Coetzee with Namibia (?) but not sure who else. We may well have been missing Stuart and Underhill but that's proven academic given they're injured. Tigers were missing 5 England internationals and 4 playing for other sides so he's right. Many posters on here have moaned about the scheduling. On this occasion it did help us.

Yes it did but it is incorrect to decribe Bath as “one which doesn’t”.

PG

Borthwick always chooses his words deliberately with the media. Everyone is focused on the missing players and none on the fact that Tigers are a worse team this year, having lost their two most important players over the summer and not recruited well to replace them, that they should have won yesterday and that they didn't.

He is probably right to moan about the scheduling but my bet is he will be thinking about the spurned chances they had when they report for training.

Tigers put in a huge effort 1st half, you don't get that much territory and quick possession easily. They needed to be well ahead at half time, I was confident we would have a good patch at some point and in the end the difference was in the top class finish by Butt. It may be something they train for but had that been say, Watson scoring the other end it would have made headlines.

Real lack of class from Borthwick. He should know as well as anyone that Bath regularly produce international players, himself included.
Anyone with any class would have also acknowledged the length of Bath's injury list when @#$%& about not having players available.
Makes the win even sweeter!

Quote:

hasta
Borthwick always chooses his words deliberately with the media. Everyone is focused on the missing players and none on the fact that Tigers are a worse team this year, having lost their two most important players over the summer and not recruited well to replace them, that they should have won yesterday and that they didn't.

Tigers need to get Pollard fit to be successful this season, they won the title thanks to Ford last season and won't win it with journeyman Burns at the helm. Yes I know his drop goal won the final, but without Ford they wouldn't have got there.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

hasta
Borthwick always chooses his words deliberately with the media. Everyone is focused on the missing players and none on the fact that Tigers are a worse team this year, having lost their two most important players over the summer and not recruited well to replace them, that they should have won yesterday and that they didn't.

Tigers need to get Pollard fit to be successful this season, they won the title thanks to Ford last season and won't win it with journeyman Burns at the helm. Yes I know his drop goal won the final, but without Ford they wouldn't have got there.

Pollard is not Ford. The Tigs are going to have to reinvent their game and that's hard to do without him. And that's assuming Pollard can stay fit.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

You only have to see the improvement in Sale's attack even without Ford starting yet to see the wider role he plays.

I think we are missing Porter more than Ford this season, he's had a belter for England today.

Quote:

P G Tips
Yes it did but it is incorrect to decribe Bath as “one which doesn’t”.
PG

Agree on that. Historically we have. Perhaps he should have used a different tense!

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

hasta
Borthwick always chooses his words deliberately with the media. Everyone is focused on the missing players and none on the fact that Tigers are a worse team this year, having lost their two most important players over the summer and not recruited well to replace them, that they should have won yesterday and that they didn't.

Tigers need to get Pollard fit to be successful this season, they won the title thanks to Ford last season and won't win it with journeyman Burns at the helm. Yes I know his drop goal won the final, but without Ford they wouldn't have got there.

I’m not a Burns fan, predominately because he has been very vocal knocking our club since he left. I actually thought he played very well last night.

Widcombe Garçon

Borthwick is only saying what other coaches would say in the same situation, partly to avoid discussing the chances they spurned. A couple more tries for them 1st half would have been game over.

I see him as a winner and they have lost players to internationals as a result of the success last season. Swings and roundabouts. Nice headlines can make for unwanted consequences.

If I was a Tigers fan I would be a bit worried about losing him to England again.

There was an echo of the DNA of the 2 clubs from 25 years ago.

Tigers dominant up front, content with territory and frontal assault but offering little variation in attack.

Bath hanging in there, refusing to give up - and producing daylight robbery at the death!

PG

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Widcombe Boy

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OutsideBath

Quote:

hasta
Borthwick always chooses his words deliberately with the media. Everyone is focused on the missing players and none on the fact that Tigers are a worse team this year, having lost their two most important players over the summer and not recruited well to replace them, that they should have won yesterday and that they didn't.

Tigers need to get Pollard fit to be successful this season, they won the title thanks to Ford last season and won't win it with journeyman Burns at the helm. Yes I know his drop goal won the final, but without Ford they wouldn't have got there.

I’m not a Burns fan, predominately because he has been very vocal knocking our club since he left. I actually thought he played very well last night.

Didn’t think he did anything special although conversely he didn’t have any of his trademark mistakes. Wigglesworth and Watson stood out more

Still think Burns should have been yellow carded for the deliberate knock on.

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OutsideBath

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Widcombe Boy

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OutsideBath

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hasta
Borthwick always chooses his words deliberately with the media. Everyone is focused on the missing players and none on the fact that Tigers are a worse team this year, having lost their two most important players over the summer and not recruited well to replace them, that they should have won yesterday and that they didn't.

Tigers need to get Pollard fit to be successful this season, they won the title thanks to Ford last season and won't win it with journeyman Burns at the helm. Yes I know his drop goal won the final, but without Ford they wouldn't have got there.

I’m not a Burns fan, predominately because he has been very vocal knocking our club since he left. I actually thought he played very well last night.

Didn’t think he did anything special although conversely he didn’t have any of his trademark mistakes. Wigglesworth and Watson stood out more

Still think Burns should have been yellow carded for the deliberate knock on.

The refs are starting to take a more nuanced view but it would have been a yellow in most matches. Incidentally, I thought Tom Foley had a good game. The calls on the 2 Potter tries were spot on and not easy to get right even with the TMO. His body language is much better now. He's not apologetic any more and makes good calls quickly. I thought the way he handled the schmozzle at the end was very good. Lil' Austin was baying for a Tigs penalty restart!

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

This is interesting. The Tigs are making excuses and pointing fingers. They never used to do that. I wonder why?

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

I just laugh at the use of the word 'produce' - Leicester have done very well to 'produce' Montoya, Murimurivalu, Wiese etc rather than sign in players...!

I am delighted to hear borthers moaning about their missing players before and after the game.

He rightly called us out for it last season, referencing page 1 of the matchday programme largely talking about how badly done to we were with injuries. His attitude was you get on with it and its an opportunity for others -100% agree.

The fact we have c25 players out and have been v quiet about it and leic have some call ups and are v vocal about it speaks volumes.

We are beginning to build a v deep squad the coaches trust and maybe borthers is a little worried that they have already lost as many as they did all last season.

For what it's worth i have always loved borthers as a player and a coach but allowing myself a wry smile on this one.

The Leicester supporter in front of me said losing Genge and Ford has had a massive effect on the strength of the team.

Mind you he was a tad one -eyed because for the final try he immediately said it was out.........but then I suppose his super human eye sight came in to play so he could look through 50 people standing up to our right

In fairness BSJ, my first thought was that Butt had to be in touch

Quote:

P G Tips
There was an echo of the DNA of the 2 clubs from 25 years ago.
Tigers dominant up front, content with territory and frontal assault but offering little variation in attack.

Bath hanging in there, refusing to give up - and producing daylight robbery at the death!

PG

That's rubbish PG. It wasn't daylight robbery at all ...... it was dark and the floodlights were on

It suddenly felt very bright around me gaz!😀

PG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:13:14:47:42 by P G Tips.

It was interesting to compare the reaction of Potter, who knew he had pushed the ball down onto his own bicep, and Butt who knew he had made a good grounding. You can almost take your cue from the players, though I guess not all are trustworthy.
Don't know about anyone else, but I keep watching the highlights.....!

Quote:

B4thB4ck
It was interesting to compare the reaction of Potter, who knew he had pushed the ball down onto his own bicep, and Butt who knew he had made a good grounding. You can almost take your cue from the players, though I guess not all are trustworthy.
Don't know about anyone else, but I keep watching the highlights.....!

You're so right about taking your cue from the players reactions. Butt knew he had grounded correctly. What needed to be checked was whether he had put his foot in touch. Once that was ruled out I was happy to leap in the air, sing and generally annoy the Leicester fans around me 😉



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:13:21:25:03 by wetside.

All I am saying Gaz is because everybody stood he could not see whether Butt did a handstand and dropped the ball!

A great win - one which last season just simply would not have happened. The players work rate, desire, mindset, belief, skill level and fitness is unrecognisable from the squad under the previous regime.

Borthwick's comments are just one borne out of sheer frustration - Tigers should have won the match by 10 points but blew it - that is rugby and he should know that better than most. Classless comments blaming the International absentees - I believe he was vocal in the past when other DoR's coaches tried to blame the same - "kettle and pot" comes to mind.

We have as a club suffered and it is well documented (excluding the previous regime when we shocking all the time) that Bath always started well and finished well but suffered in the Winter months whether due to climate conditions or absentees during the International windows.

I honestly believe that JVG is building something to get excited about - the fact that other club fans such as Leicester are questioning our salary cap is another sign that they are getting concerned, but actually look at Tigers signing Pollard (Marquee), Jasper Wiese will be on a fair bit as will their Internationals etc in addition they have also recruited the likes of Watson, Gopperth and recently Atkinson - so again dangerous given they have recently themselves been fined for Cap infringements.

All in all this was a game we should have lost - but we won and I am over the moon - believe me we have already felt the other side of the coin - personally I believe we should have won against Bristol, Gloucester and Sarries but we didn't - the only team which we genuinely got well. truly and deservedly, beaten by was Sale and that identified to JVG our lack of a ball carrier which may explain the interest in Alfie B.

Finally, I would be apoplectic with rage if we have or any club breaks the salary cap given the past issues in our game and I hope if that were the case the club would be dealt with in most, harshest of penalties.

Quote:

B4thB4ck
You can almost take your cue from the players, though I guess not all are trustworthy.

There was a moment in (iirc) the Scotland match where they had to go and check back whether a ball had been touched in flight - I thought, why doesn't the ref just say to the player - 'if you know you touched it, just tell me now, and save us a bit of time',

I got a bit ticked off with insinuations of salary cap abuse on the Leicester forum so I wrote this in response.

Having written it there I thought I might as well post it here. Tell me I'm wrong, but this is how I see it...

I think the situation has occurred due to a combination of the incompetence of the previous management team when it came to player acquisition and retention and inertia due to the appointment of a new coaching team.

As a result a number of big earning players were released at the end of last season and weren't replaced. The club thought it had secured Matera as its new marquee and then he decided late on that he preferred to go elsewhere, so we don't even have a marquee player.

The policy at Bath in recent seasons has been to invest in the academy as much as possible and reduce the number of large earners being brought in from overseas who were always likely to move on rather than be committed to the club for the long term. This was as much about re-establishing a culture in the squad which had become noticeably absent.

Look at the young players who have come through the system in Bath in recent years.

Bailey
Bayliss
Butt
Cordwell
De Glanville
Doughty
Dunn
Ellis
Ewels
Green
Hamer-Webb
Merigan
Obano
Ojomoh
Reid
Richards
Worboys

All of these players have been dropped in the deep end because there has been no alternative. We have had senior players ravaged by injuries and a very thin squad because we have spent so much of the cap on "star" players who are regularly unavailable. This has now changed. Have a look at the Bath squad and ask who the big name, big earners are. There has been a conscious decision to have a deeper squad of players who are committed and available and to ditch the big names.

The reason we have struggled badly in the last couple of seasons has been that we have had mix and match squads of very young and inexperienced players chucked in the deep end, along with injury jokers and they have struggled to find their feet. This was bad enough in itself but we also had a very young and inexperienced coaching team.

You can get away with having a young squad if you have wisened heads in your coaching team. You can have a young coaching team if you have established experienced players in your playing squad. You can't have both and hope to succeed. That's what Bath has had for the last two or three seasons. The inexperienced coaching team has made horrible mistakes. Player acquisition and retention has gone out of the window. Callow players have been chucked into a brutal firing line. It's no surprise that we struggled so badly.

Now we have a new coaching team which is far more savvy and there is money in the bank for them to shape the squad in the way that they deem fit. Talented young players have been blooded and are finding their feet. It has been a miserable couple of years but it is finally showing signs of paying off.

To have done this in the couple of years when relegation is suspended might possibly turn out to be an act of genius.

Quote:

Ali1969
I honestly believe that JVG is building something to get excited about - the fact that other club fans such as Leicester are questioning our salary cap is another sign that they are getting concerned.
...

Finally, I would be apoplectic with rage if we have or any club breaks the salary cap given the past issues in our game and I hope if that were the case the club would be dealt with in most, harshest of penalties.

I think it comes from the assumption that we had spent up to the cap as of September 1st, and have signed 2 or 3 players on longer term contracts since then.

But


Hooper like his mid-season signings (not just injury dispensation) and knew that the injury dispensation isn't enough to cover all the injuries a club suffers through a season (especially when we were seeing more than half the squad out at any one time).
I'm sure he'd have advised JvG to keep some cap back for more of them; and I suspect we'd have kept more than usual back, given the new HoR would be wanting to start building his own squad.

Equally, the 2 or 3 players we've signed longer term are all under 24 yoa, so theoretically could be signed to the academy, with a different (very low) cap, which may allow a little more wriggle room.

As for how much they're being paid right now - probably a pittance*, and nowhere near their worth; but those 2 or 3 players have also got longer term contracts in their pocket to start in the off season - how much might they be willing to reduce their current pay for (say) a 5 year contract later - for a club with a dedicated, wealthy owner, having just been made jobless at a moment's notice?

On top of that, all transfers this mid-season will be under a very intense microscope, and pretty much any signing that hasn't been run past the cap commissioner would be a dereliction of duty, and gross negligence - so I can't believe that we haven't (though I acknowledge that such things do happen).

I 100% agree that if we're being naughty with these signings, I will be right with you in castigating the club.



*Baring in mind that a pittance is probably somewhere around the 80% percentile for UK earnings; so not exactly a pittance in real terms.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022:11:14:12:22:44 by Which Tyler.

On 26 Oct, I noted that we had 80 players listed on the Offy squad. It's now 79 players. I could have sworn that was before Searle and Shillcock had signed, but those deals were announced on 21 Oct.

Who has dropped off the squad list?

WT I think you hit the nail on the head. The expectation was that Bath were already at the cap at the start of the season, the large number of mid-season signings would be suspicious if that is the case. But as we discussed on the rumours thread, and in line with what Malco said our squad, whilst large, does lack big earners.

If Bristol, Saracens and Tigers are under the cap then we must be as well, unless we're paying players way over the odds which again would surprise me with Ed Griffiths (brief) tenure at the end of last season.

Even with Barbeary, our strongest 23 doesn't look that strong compared with the rest of the league.

I'm getting tired of arguing with numpties on Twitter about how we're getting the Wuss boys in under the salary cap, Barbeary etc etc.

Anyone else think - particularly after Sarries - the clubs/PR/RFU could actually do themselves a favour by making the aspects of the salary cap public? Not suggesting individual salaries are disclosed, but perhaps a grand total figure is available and updated when signings come in.

Will only continue and sometimes it pays to be transparent. No way clubs can be anything other than squeaky clean these days, surely.

People conveniently forget that we've released Cips, Watson and Faletau and had the Matera saga too. We've signed decent, experienced (some ex-int) squad players in their place with no stars. Gallagher, Attwood and Annett look like masterstrokes. Cloete, Francis, Shreuder, Tonks, A Coetzee while injured are of a similar ilk and likely command similar wages.

No way we could've even been close to cap at start of this season, but - with £400k injury disp and a bit of negotiating with Wuss boys (come on board with reduced salary now, upped later) - we are probably there now.

--Accidentally posted this on the Rumours thread. Admin please delete that if possible--

Quote:

Optimist
On 26 Oct, I noted that we had 80 players listed on the Offy squad. It's now 79 players. I could have sworn that was before Searle and Shillcock had signed, but those deals were announced on 21 Oct.
Who has dropped off the squad list?

We seemed to have lost Archie Maggs prop in the academy

Quote:

BathOtter
I just laugh at the use of the word 'produce' - Leicester have done very well to 'produce' Montoya, Murimurivalu, Wiese etc rather than sign in players...!

our first choice 23 would include academy players Steward, Van poortlivet, Martin, Chessum, Hayes, Kelly, Reffell, Youngs, Cole, Green, Wells. Plenty of home grown talent I think you will agree

Oh absolutely, and I'm not disputing that, but to claim that they're being punished for producing players when in fact roughly half of those missing were imports is just trying to create a bit of noise for headline writers.

To go from last season (?) having a go at teams complaining about missing players through injury and international selection, to then blaming that very thing for losing is a bit ironic, I'm sure you'd agree?

Quote:

BathOtter
Oh absolutely, and I'm not disputing that, but to claim that they're being punished for producing players when in fact roughly half of those missing were imports is just trying to create a bit of noise for headline writers.
To go from last season (?) having a go at teams complaining about missing players through injury and international selection, to then blaming that very thing for losing is a bit ironic, I'm sure you'd agree?

It may or may not be ironic but it's definitely hypocritical.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Take your point re marquee malco in terms of missing out on matera but the way it works is we just plonk top earner (who hasn't been signed from a prem club in last 2 years) into that slot?

So miss out on matera....push someone like underhill or coko into marquee for a season....free up c300k cap.

The point is spot on, we probably came in under cap for one reason or another so 400k injury dispensation plus some spare cap actually goes a long way when players are made redundant and are desperate for contracts.

Wouldn't surprise me if we were 'only' paying hill and lawrence c5-6k/month for 9 months oct-june....so only c100k of the injury dispensation meaning we have room also for morozov/ fwl/ aranas/ searle/ shilcock/ barbeary ( who will only be here for c7m before 23/24 cap starts).

From next season we will probably be paying hill/barbeary/lawrence 10-20k/month each for 12m so if we go out and sign some amazing players in the summer without offloading loads then questions should be asked....

I predict we sign a couple of v good players and offload 10-15.

Some nice moments in the game on Fri but really really loved baileys bullet pass to JJ on the outside arc in the build up to the hill try.

A thing of beauty!

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charlieboa
Some nice moments in the game on Fri but really really loved baileys bullet pass to JJ on the outside arc in the build up to the hill try.
A thing of beauty!

Nice to see JJ on the outside arc as well. Not that long ago it seemed the grubber kick was the only trick left in his repertoire. If JvG can get him into form as well then we have the makings if some depth in the centres.

Quote:

The Bear

Quote:

charlieboa
Some nice moments in the game on Fri but really really loved baileys bullet pass to JJ on the outside arc in the build up to the hill try.
A thing of beauty!

Nice to see JJ on the outside arc as well. Not that long ago it seemed the grubber kick was the only trick left in his repertoire. If JvG can get him into form as well then we have the makings if some depth in the centres.

massive +1 to both comments

Quote:

gaz59

Quote:

The Bear

Quote:

charlieboa
Some nice moments in the game on Fri but really really loved baileys bullet pass to JJ on the outside arc in the build up to the hill try.
A thing of beauty!

Nice to see JJ on the outside arc as well. Not that long ago it seemed the grubber kick was the only trick left in his repertoire. If JvG can get him into form as well then we have the makings if some depth in the centres.

massive +1 to both comments

Agree, also not to forget Matt Gallaghers massive kick to touch from the last scrum penalty to give great field position for the final lineout !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
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"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
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Yes that evoked the "ghost" of Butch James!!!