Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Ben Spencer
By Rokobilly
October 25 2023
The table appears to have been turned upside down. Bath sit proudly clear at the top, 10 out of 10 so far. Saracens and Leicester, champions the last two seasons, prop up the rest without a win between them. Saturday is a fantastic opportunity for Bath to cement their position and keep the Tigers caged at the foot of the league.
I'm not a betting man but I suspect we will start as favourites. Partly for the aforementioned form, but also Leicester's long list of absentees through injury and the World Cup.
Cole, Montaya, Martin, Weise,Youngs, Pollard and Steward are all in France. Van Poortvliet and Watson would be too but for serious injuries suffered in England's warm up games. A surreptitious look at the Tigers board last week suggested a total of 12 first team squad players missing. Make no mistake, as with Sarries last week, it's a good time to play them.
But as with Sarries last week, they will still field a high quality XV. Liebenberg, Cracknell and Reffell represent a very well balanced back row. Nic Dolly will be a nuisance around the park and a threat at the back of the maul. Behind the scrum, Atkinson or Shillcock are both decent options at 10. Centres Porter and Kelly have both featured in England squads in recent times. Out wide, the new arrivals of Hassell-Collins and Bassett both have impeccable scoring records.
Make no mistake, this won't be an easy match.
However, the line ups will, perhaps, show the wisdom of splashing your cash on an eye wateringly expensive Fly Half who is unlikely to be involved in the latter stages of a World Cup.
Bath's own absentee list continues to grow as the realities of competitive rugby take hold. Ted Hill was in the operating theatre this week - and we wish him a speedy rehab - with further injuries to Quinn Roux and GJ van Velze confirmed this week. In better news, Will Muir who was last seen hobbling off after scoring against Falcons will be back at the weekend.
The key battle will be up front. It's an old cliche for a reason. If the set piece holds up - or even better provides a platform for penalties and territory - then Spencer, Russell and co should have the wherewithal to score tries, especially as our new half back pairing is starting to look particularly promising in attack.
One area to watch will be our discipline. Both our early season victories would have been more comfortable had we not kept giving away kickable penalties. With a poacher like Reffell on the pitch, we need to play smart in our own half.
The front row looks to be a strength for Bath this year. With Obano likely to return to the 23, we should be stronger than last week too. One particularly pleasing part of the Saracens win was the performance of the 'second string front row' - we all feel happier when we see Obano, Dunn and du Toit starting but Schoeman, Annett and Jonker are very worthy replacements. Depth in this area is critical for any team with lofty ambitions.
There will be some interesting match ups across the Rec, not least the prospect of Phil Cokanasiga taking on big brother Joe. Elsewhere we may welcome back former players Jamie Shillcock, who entertained us briefly last autumn after Worcester folded, and Mike Williams, who has returned to Welford Road after a brief stint at Sandy Park.
A prediction? With confidence growing and six wins on the bounce in the League, albeit across two seasons, I foresee another victory. Bath by 9.
Will Butt's sensational try in the corresponding fixture last year was a moment that burned bright in a dark period of results for the club. Hopefully this year we can win with a bit more to spare - perhaps with some of the smiling swagger shown by Josh Matavesi and his outrageous dummy at Tigers back in August 2020. That would make for a very enjoyable afternoon.
A possible selection:
Gallagher; Muir; Butt; Redpath; Cokanasiga; Russell; Spencer
Obano; Dunn; du Toit; Ewels; McNally; Reid; Cloete; Barberry
Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 12:39
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Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 12:55
At least two of those kickable pens v Sarries were questionable scrum pens that easily could have gone our way
My impression is the overall pen count was lower than the Falcons game
Shillcock has looked very good and I'm delighted for him that he found a good Prem club to go to. Atkinson has looked flakey compared to his Wasps performances
One big difference could be the bench and in both games so far we have looked very strong there
My impression is the overall pen count was lower than the Falcons game
Shillcock has looked very good and I'm delighted for him that he found a good Prem club to go to. Atkinson has looked flakey compared to his Wasps performances
One big difference could be the bench and in both games so far we have looked very strong there
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: A2O (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 15:33
Would be surprised if Tigers won with 10 of our starting 15 missing so just hope we can catch up when we get our returnees back
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: BathIron (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 16:09
Excellent match preview!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 16:58
There is some players coming back from injury as well as a couple from the World Cup, Reffell and Kata both had the week off last week and could figure, possibly on the bench
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: nick holder (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 17:51
I think we could have as many as 6 of our starting 15 missing?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 20:16
I hope for a good game and a decent performance from us Tigers. Any league points will be a bonus.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2023 22:03
A game we really should be winning by more than one score I think given the absentees Leicester have.
Won't be easy but if we are serious about top 4 this season it's exactly the kind of game we need to win.
I would go:
Tdg, coko, mojo, cam, muir, finn, spencer
Schoeman, annett, du toit, mcnally, ewels, reid, cloete, barbeary
Bench: beno, dunn, jonker, flw, coetzee, schreuder, bailey, gallagher
Personally would always find a spot for richards (at the expense of cotezee this week with reid covering 8) but don't think it will happen.
Who knows though, already seeing some rest and rotation from jvg which I think is a good sign of trusting the squad.
Won't be easy but if we are serious about top 4 this season it's exactly the kind of game we need to win.
I would go:
Tdg, coko, mojo, cam, muir, finn, spencer
Schoeman, annett, du toit, mcnally, ewels, reid, cloete, barbeary
Bench: beno, dunn, jonker, flw, coetzee, schreuder, bailey, gallagher
Personally would always find a spot for richards (at the expense of cotezee this week with reid covering 8) but don't think it will happen.
Who knows though, already seeing some rest and rotation from jvg which I think is a good sign of trusting the squad.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/10/2023 18:29
Quote:charlieboa
A game we really should be winning by more than one score I think given the absentees Leicester have.
Won't be easy but if we are serious about top 4 this season it's exactly the kind of game we need to win.
I would go:
Tdg, coko, mojo, cam, muir, finn, spencer
Schoeman, annett, du toit, mcnally, ewels, reid, cloete, barbeary
Bench: beno, dunn, jonker, flw, coetzee, schreuder, bailey, gallagher
Personally would always find a spot for richards (at the expense of cotezee this week with reid covering 8) but don't think it will happen.
Who knows though, already seeing some rest and rotation from jvg which I think is a good sign of trusting the squad.
Agree with this like the look of that team, only change would be I would go with Butt at 23. Really impressed with him at 12 offers something different for us if Ojomoh Cam isn’t working. In addition to covering wing and 13.
Richards wasn’t available last week so hoping this week or next we’ll see him.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/10/2023 19:25
Butt had a very good game against Sarries so agree it is difficult to see why he wouldn't feature in the 23 on Saturday. As you say, he covers several positions very well
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 10:32
I think Butt provides some physicality and a focal point for the attack, which otherwise would be all ballers. I go back to if we play mojo/cam we pay Gallagher at 15, if TdG at 15, Butt in the centre for balance.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: nick holder (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 12:01
Starting XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Josh McNally, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Fergus Lee-Warner, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer ©, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Matt Gallagher
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Ewan Richards, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Chris Cloete
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Ewan Richards, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Chris Cloete
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 12:08
That pack seems to be the ‘all beef’ option
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: nick holder (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 12:16
Tigers team
15 Mike Brown [11]
14 Josh Bassett [4]
13 Guy Porter [65]
12 Dan Kelly [61]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [5]
10 Jamie Shillcock [6]
9 Tom Whiteley [8]
1 James Cronin [16]
2 Charlie Clare [82]
3 Joe Heyes [127]
4 Cameron Henderson [41]
5 Harry Wells [179]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (c) [89]
7 Tommy Reffell [100]
8 Matt Rogerson [4]
REPLACEMENTS
16 Nic Dolly [29]
17 Francois van Wyk [36]
18 Will Hurd [29]
19 Sam Carter [4]
20 Emeka Ilione [14]
21 Joe Powell [5]
22 Charlie Atkinson [22]
23 Phil Cokanasiga [11]
15 Mike Brown [11]
14 Josh Bassett [4]
13 Guy Porter [65]
12 Dan Kelly [61]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [5]
10 Jamie Shillcock [6]
9 Tom Whiteley [8]
1 James Cronin [16]
2 Charlie Clare [82]
3 Joe Heyes [127]
4 Cameron Henderson [41]
5 Harry Wells [179]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (c) [89]
7 Tommy Reffell [100]
8 Matt Rogerson [4]
REPLACEMENTS
16 Nic Dolly [29]
17 Francois van Wyk [36]
18 Will Hurd [29]
19 Sam Carter [4]
20 Emeka Ilione [14]
21 Joe Powell [5]
22 Charlie Atkinson [22]
23 Phil Cokanasiga [11]
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 12:20
It'll be decided up front then, you wouldn't want to give those (Tigers) backs front foot ball.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 12:25
That leic team is stronger on paper than I expected- some good quality running through their 23.
Loving our confidence to rotate and the message that squad naming gives i.e. we are coming after you up front to physically dominate you
Loving our confidence to rotate and the message that squad naming gives i.e. we are coming after you up front to physically dominate you
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 12:35
Quote:shipwrecked
It'll be decided up front then, you wouldn't want to give those (Tigers) backs front foot ball.
Liebenberg has been in awesome form this year. He will be key for them
Our bench is stronger than theirs and that may be the difference in the last quarter in holding out for a narrow win
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 13:51
Two strong sides - Weather going to be a big factor I feel - Confidence will also have a bearing. JvG certainly expecting an arm wrestle - good call IMHO putting FLW on the blindside, he seems to like playing against Tigers.
A lot of negativity on Tigers board not unlike Sarries but like Sarries notwithstanding the players they have away at the RWC it is a very strong side they are putting out - less we forget we are still missing 3 players and a few already injured.
Hoping for a good win and 3 from 3 please - Come on Bath.
A lot of negativity on Tigers board not unlike Sarries but like Sarries notwithstanding the players they have away at the RWC it is a very strong side they are putting out - less we forget we are still missing 3 players and a few already injured.
Hoping for a good win and 3 from 3 please - Come on Bath.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 14:29
Interesting that many are saying we are both very strong sides & there’s not much between us despite all the players they are missing. I’d have thought that on a one to one basis we are quite a bit stronger & should win, though that doesn’t mean we will. Do others not share my view?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 14:33
Quote:Bath Hammer
Interesting that many are saying we are both very strong sides & there’s not much between us despite all the players they are missing. I’d have thought that on a one to one basis we are quite a bit stronger & should win, though that doesn’t mean we will. Do others not share my view?
My comments were really just a realisation that the tigers depth is quite impressive and that 23 is still v good.
I do think we look stronger though, confidence should be high and are at home so hoping fot a similar margin of victory as last week.
Hope I am right, but am often wrong!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 14:34
Quote:Bath Hammer
Interesting that many are saying we are both very strong sides & there’s not much between us despite all the players they are missing. I’d have thought that on a one to one basis we are quite a bit stronger & should win, though that doesn’t mean we will. Do others not share my view?
I agree with you that we look stronger on paper, but I'm still nervous about the outcome as we've frequently looked stronger than opposition teams on paper for the last few seasons but have found a way to lose.
I'm hoping JvG has instilled a different mindset in this Bath squad that will consistently deliver positive results (especially at home).
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 14:49
That’s a strong Tigers team……going to be very a close game ! Bath by 2 
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Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 14:52
Quote:Bath Hammer
Interesting that many are saying we are both very strong sides & there’s not much between us despite all the players they are missing. I’d have thought that on a one to one basis we are quite a bit stronger & should win, though that doesn’t mean we will. Do others not share my view?
Should win, my concern, expressed previously by someone else is that we risk conceding points through penalties. Our pack will get stronger as the season progresses and Finn is the point of difference.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 15:53
Quote:Old Bath Tub
That’s a strong Tigers team……going to be very a close game ! Bath by 2
Just as well we’re not playing their first team then!!!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 18:18
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Old Bath Tub
That’s a strong Tigers team……going to be very a close game ! Bath by 2
Just as well we’re not playing their first team then!!!
Ok, Bath by 20 then !
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 18:52
Oh, and thank you for the preview Rokobilly
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 19:37
Oddschecker tonight has Bath as favourites at 4/11, Tigers at 3/1. I think we'll win well. COYB!
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
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Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
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Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 27/10/2023 20:51
Quote:Stopsy
Oh, and thank you for the preview Rokobilly
You are very welcome : )
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 08:21
Quote:RokobillyQuote:Stopsy
Oh, and thank you for the preview Rokobilly
You are very welcome : )
Yes, thank you.
You got closer to the team than me!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 10:07
Quote:charlieboaQuote:RokobillyQuote:Stopsy
Oh, and thank you for the preview Rokobilly
You are very welcome : )
Yes, thank you.
You got closer to the team than me!
True, was a good team pick but the team selection seems to have got a lot harder with JvG as he likes to rotate, if you are referring to Ewan Richard's selection I'm keen to see him back CB, I think we will seem a much more mature forward.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 11:49
Two very good sides, quality all over the park, just think you are a year ahead, we have a new coaching team and a lot of new players today, if we gel as a team we can win, but home advantage makes you favourites, should be a good game.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 12:52
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:Bath Hammer
Interesting that many are saying we are both very strong sides & there’s not much between us despite all the players they are missing. I’d have thought that on a one to one basis we are quite a bit stronger & should win, though that doesn’t mean we will. Do others not share my view?
I agree with you that we look stronger on paper, but I'm still nervous about the outcome as we've frequently looked stronger than opposition teams on paper for the last few seasons but have found a way to lose.
I'm hoping JvG has instilled a different mindset in this Bath squad that will consistently deliver positive results (especially at home).
Those are my thoughts too OB.
A classic fixture this, always a great occasion. Enjoy everyone.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 13:06
Looking like it may be a wet one - not sure who tha favours tbh - hopefully won’t be too heavy and Finn can lead our team around to a great win . Come on Bath.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 15:27
Nice
Barb.s was all set to pick and go.
Finn sends Ben back to go get the ball.
Inch perfect kick, and Muir doesn't have to break stride.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Barb.s was all set to pick and go.
Finn sends Ben back to go get the ball.
Inch perfect kick, and Muir doesn't have to break stride.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 15:35
Woeful call by ref, that was an excellent rip
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 15:42
We are playing too much in the wrong places atm
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 15:46
That's going to leave a scar on Muir.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Iane2103 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 15:51
Ref needs to reflect on the first half. He's been poor. Elbow to Muirs head when he was blocked.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 15:52
Why does the Radio Bristol commentator keep referring to 'Thomas de Toy'?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:14
Some dull play by us. Leicester basically in this due to Bath ill discipline
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:38
Gah we are making too many silly errors
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:40
Too many penalties given away!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:48
We really are our own worst enemies today
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:48
McNally and Cloete guilty of idiocy.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Iane2103 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:51
This ref is woeful
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Iane2103 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:52
Thank goodness for the TMO
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:52
Jesus the TJ is basically coaching the referee
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:57
Infuriating from Bath - decision making in conditions like this nowhere good enough
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:57
Gutted. Chris Cloete really had a shocker there. What a terrible ref.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:58
That was painful. Powell got us out of jail and we still fudged it up.
A few guys let us down badly there.
A few guys let us down badly there.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 16:58
Can remember the last time we made that many errors. Very disappointing.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:00
All said weather turned it into a lottery, we will go again and I would expect a big response next time out.
Lots for discussion in the debrief!!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Lots for discussion in the debrief!!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:01
Tough tough game
McNally had a really poor game
Subs had no real impact Cloete really poor shouldn’t see him for a while
Last pen call is absolutely ridiculous but you can only take what your given shilcock immense.
Barbeary building nicely, feels good to finally be upset about losing games against the best teams
McNally had a really poor game
Subs had no real impact Cloete really poor shouldn’t see him for a while
Last pen call is absolutely ridiculous but you can only take what your given shilcock immense.
Barbeary building nicely, feels good to finally be upset about losing games against the best teams
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:01
Quote:hasta
Can remember the last time we made that many errors. Very disappointing.
Played far too much rugby in the wrong places.
Long throws in line outs in this weather???
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:03
A real old fashioned Bath v Leicester mud wrestle. More grass than in days of old. I thought we’d gifted you the game only to get lucky at the death.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:05
Last scrum penalty looked an absolutely ridiculous call but our own individual moments of idiocy lost it.
As said above, in a way pleased to feel this annoyed at that one, as in previous seasons I’d have shrugged and said, good effort.
Onwards and upwards.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
As said above, in a way pleased to feel this annoyed at that one, as in previous seasons I’d have shrugged and said, good effort.
Onwards and upwards.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Beergoggles (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:06
Some pretty poor decisions, coupled with a bizarre and almost incoherent ref, made it closer than it should have been. The idiotic actions of Chris Cloete then did the rest. Don’t want to see him in the BBW again for a long while.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:28:17:09:09 by Beergoggles.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:28:17:09:09 by Beergoggles.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:10
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Old Bath Tub
That’s a strong Tigers team……going to be very a close game ! Bath by 2
Just as well we’re not playing their first team then!!!
Got that wrong then !
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Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Beergoggles (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:12
Quote:dr.bath1865
As said above, in a way pleased to feel this annoyed at that one, as in previous seasons I’d have shrugged and said, good effort. .
100% this. I’m back to being annoyed by results like this whereas the last couple of years we’ve been so poor it’s been hard to care.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:12
Three really stupid penalties given away in the second half let Tigers hang in there.
Last penalty, the usual scrum lottery and a guess from the ref.
One that we let get away, but the conditions were awful and that's a leveller.
First time no try BP in about 9 games?
Last penalty, the usual scrum lottery and a guess from the ref.
One that we let get away, but the conditions were awful and that's a leveller.
First time no try BP in about 9 games?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:19
Frustrating! JvG shouting, safe exit and Jaco Coetzee drops it!
No need to try to win the scrum in the pouring rain.
No need to smash the backs when the chance are they will either drop it of kick it away.
Penalties are getting a serious problem.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
No need to try to win the scrum in the pouring rain.
No need to smash the backs when the chance are they will either drop it of kick it away.
Penalties are getting a serious problem.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:20
Two games running Cloete has been a liability. Got carded last week and gave a away two stupid penalties this week. I would rather they didn’t pick him more trouble than he’s worth at present. McNally needs to listen to the ref even if what the ref is saying is wrong.
I don’t think the ref will enjoy the post match review not one of his better showings.
I don’t think the ref will enjoy the post match review not one of his better showings.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:22
Thank goodness I was away!!!!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Iane2103 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:24
Still top but there's room for improvement. The weather was a leveller but the ref - words fail me. I think he needs schooling there were so many odd or clearly wrong decisions.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: A2O (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:45
Tigers fan in peace. To lose to an iffy scrum penalty decision is always very disappointing but the weather made the game a lottery and the referee was probably guessing. Hopefully the return match will be played in better conditions and we will see fewer mistakes by both teams.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Kentish Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:48
Way too many penalties. The Cloete one 5m from their line which we then doubled up on, led directly to their try. Some of the decisions were debateable but McNally was warned twice, didn’t listen and was pinged on both occasions. Not smart.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: BathSalmon (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 17:59
Jaco Cotezee not good enough for this level. Sadly.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 18:04
Quote:BathSalmon
Jaco Cotezee not good enough for this level. Sadly.
Which is strange, because he was highly recommended. Perhaps it doesn't rain like that in South Africa.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 18:04
Quote:Old Bath TubQuote:Bath HammerQuote:Old Bath Tub
That’s a strong Tigers team……going to be very a close game ! Bath by 2
Just as well we’re not playing their first team then!!!
Got that wrong then !
True but I did say that we should win not that we would. I am now much less confident of our ability to get into the top 4 after failing to take control against a second string Leicester side.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 18:43
Jaco basically did exactly what their scrum half did. It's the avoidable penalties that annoy me more, Cloete on the deck (twice) , McNally at the maul when called away, Coka in the tackle when called, Spencer the 10m extra. Even if the ref was wrong on some of them, he called pretty clearly.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 18:57
Quote:hasta
Jaco basically did exactly what their scrum half did. It's the avoidable penalties that annoy me more, Cloete on the deck (twice) , McNally at the maul when called away, Coka in the tackle when called, Spencer the 10m extra. Even if the ref was wrong on some of them, he called pretty clearly.
The 10m for Spencer asking for clarification was a poor decision, I don't think he spoke inappropriately.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 19:14
Both teams did all they could to lose it, just we managed it a bit better. Cold, wet, miserable and a painful drive home thru flood water pouring down Midford Hill in torrents. Thought the Tigers pack better than us today and on that basis deserved the win, but if ever there was a game to be abandoned due to the actions of XR this was it and they let us down.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: BathSalmon (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 19:15
Jaco has promised so much (since his signing) but added very little. There was little pressure on the catch, was a straightforward situation, take the catch and set up the ruck. I wanted him to succeed, but he hasn't. That said, I'm still.out in Bath and need to rematch the game.
Thought that Leicester were very "game" in the match, fighting for ever inch, but didn't really do much for their win. Disappointing that Bath didn't match their intensity.
Thought that Leicester were very "game" in the match, fighting for ever inch, but didn't really do much for their win. Disappointing that Bath didn't match their intensity.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 19:19
If you mean 'rewatch' the game BS you're a real rugby connoisseur. Found it totally underwhelming once so can't imagine putting myself through that tedium again. My only consolation is that on the ST it works out at around £30ish quid a game. I pity those who paid £80+ to watch it..
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 19:43
Quote:TomReagan
Both teams did all they could to lose it, just we managed it a bit better. Cold, wet, miserable and a painful drive home thru flood water pouring down Midford Hill in torrents. Thought the Tigers pack better than us today and on that basis deserved the win, but if ever there was a game to be abandoned due to the actions of XR this was it and they let us down.
How many of today’s Leicester pack do you think will be selected when their World Cup returnees are available?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 19:53
Quote:Beergoggles
Some pretty poor decisions, coupled with a bizarre and almost incoherent ref, made it closer than it should have been. The idiotic actions of Chris Cloete then did the rest. Don’t want to see him in the BBW again for a long while.
He called a not releasing penalty on Big Joe I think. Said the players knees were on the ground. Joe did a perfectly good rip, but no.
Replays showed there was no call for tackle (ok I can forgive that), but the replay showed the Leicester players knees were about two feet off the ground!
Three points Tigers that one.
Is the TMO not allowed to intervene on these?
Ref also missed the body check at the end, took the TMO to bring that one to his attention.
J
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 20:28
Quote:I only watch Bath games (Not watching WC Final, for example) so totally unqualified to say but thought we'd get on top today and we were 2nd best I felt. I also expected us to be too strong for the Falcons pack and that was even Stevens. Lost several line outs, were out-mauled, conceded 2 or 3 scrum pens to Tigers' 1 (I think??) and they were better at the breakdown. Apart from that we did a bang up job!Bath Hammer
How many of today’s Leicester pack do you think will be selected when their World Cup returnees are available?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 20:57
Mr Makepeace! The most inept refereeing performance at the Rec ...since the last time he refereed at the Rec.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 20:59
The new forwards coach has a lot of work to do to earn his stripes!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 21:04
I’d guess Montoya, Cole, Chessum, Martin, Wiese but Pollard would also have helped. Whatever, it was a tight game and a call either way won it
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 21:07
Definitely 3 points thrown away today, largely thanks to Cloete who should be dropped from the 23 for the foreseeable future.
Conditions awful, but credit Tigers who had the better game plan and executed it well.
The ref was an absolute clown and should be sent to ref below the championship where he clearly belongs. More than one occasion he didn’t seem to know the rules.
Conditions awful, but credit Tigers who had the better game plan and executed it well.
The ref was an absolute clown and should be sent to ref below the championship where he clearly belongs. More than one occasion he didn’t seem to know the rules.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 21:10
Fair and generous view stopsy, but not sure what Pollard might have done that Shillock didn't. Dreadful kicking conditions and he nailed nearly everything, including several kicks from out wide.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 21:44
He was rather good, I was delighted when we signed him as he was always good against us v Worcester
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 22:09
I wondered how the weather would affect the match it was a real leveller. Firstly well played and well deserved Leicester, that is the most important aspect.
We made mistakes and this is still part of a journey - once again though the official is at the centre of discussions. Mr Makepeace was clearly out of his depth today and like the RWC is not good enough.
The game is seriously being let down at the moment by the standard of officiating and this needs to be addressed for the sake of the game and it appear this is a global issue.
We made mistakes and this is still part of a journey - once again though the official is at the centre of discussions. Mr Makepeace was clearly out of his depth today and like the RWC is not good enough.
The game is seriously being let down at the moment by the standard of officiating and this needs to be addressed for the sake of the game and it appear this is a global issue.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 22:14
Leicester with those WC returners, Sarries finding their form with loads of returners & Exeter looking really impressive, there might only be one other top 4 slot to fight over.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 22:21
Honestly this could be the biggest bun fight for top four ever. Maybe everyone but Newcastle could make it.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 22:26
We all recall those endless defeats at the death when in winning positions under Hooper. It seems that very little has changed in that respect!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: BathIron (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 22:48
The ref was clueless at times. He didn't seem to even realise that the blocking penalty on Russell would be where the ball lands rather than where he kicked it. And that last scrum penalty was a joke!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 28/10/2023 23:24
[quote BathIron]The ref was clueless at times. He didn't seem to even realise that the blocking penalty on Russell would be where the ball lands rather than where he kicked it. And that last scrum penalty was a joke![/quote)
…………………………..except it wasn’t funny!
…………………………..except it wasn’t funny!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 00:01
Quote:OutsideBath
.
The ref was an absolute clown and should be sent to ref below the championship where he clearly belongs. More than one occasion he didn’t seem to know the rules.
At times I didn't know if I was watching Rugby Union or some other hybrid sport so far away from the rules Mr. Makepeace was. There been bad refereeing performances but that was surreal.
We still should have won, though and we are back to the era of brain-dead decisions (McNally - I dont care if the ref is wrong if he says stop then stop!).
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 00:21
Quote:Other than speaking in a Northern voice pretty much what Farrell did v SA but a very different response then? Both where the captain, both looked for clarification of a referees decision. In Farrells case he was even right that the referee was incorrect!Dorset Boy
The 10m for Spencer asking for clarification was a poor decision, I don't think he spoke inappropriately.
Interesting game. Lots of moments it turned and both sides of Russell on display.
His inch perfect kick for Muir was a thing of absolute beauty. His game management and decision-making in general were not good for this type of game though.
I have no doubt that as the understanding grows with the team he will become even more effective than he already is. He certainly does stuff that few other players in rugby can pull like the sideways falling pass out of the tackle last week.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 00:50
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:Other than speaking in a Northern voice pretty much what Farrell did v SA but a very different response then? Both where the captain, both looked for clarification of a referees decision. In Farrells case he was even right that the referee was incorrect!Dorset Boy
The 10m for Spencer asking for clarification was a poor decision, I don't think he spoke inappropriately.
While usually happy to crowbar a discussion about Owen Farrell into any topic on this board - I can see a difference between these cases and surprised others can't.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 06:22
Quote:hasta
Honestly this could be the biggest bun fight for top four ever. Maybe everyone but Newcastle could make it.
I hope you’re right but I fear that the usual teams will dominate once those players are reinstated. We should have received a considerable bonus playing two much depleted teams but threw 3 points away, aided by an incompetent referee.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 06:54
I am wondering what compelled JVG to retain Jaco Coetzee. He has only started to be employed in meaningful matches this season though he has been with us since 2021. Perhaps he has suffered a long term injury but if not little confidence has been shown in him. He had a number of appearances with the Stormers/Western Province but wasn’t a regular starter. He seemed to have scored a reasonable number of tries for them Regrettably any confidence he had will be shot. If he continues making crucial mistakes he will surely be rarely used, especially when cool heads are essential.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 07:31
Can’t help but think that we’d have won (either by a point or a bit more) if Ted Hill had been playing.
Not a criticism of Reid, as he had a good game and was typically industrious, but in that weather, Hill would’ve excelled. Despite our depth, he’s going to be a massive miss, as I sense he’s one of those go to guys in tight games that somehow pulls us over the line. Certainly did last season - on his debut was it? - when he was MotM (with Shilcock at full back for us if I remember correctly).
Small aside- I’d have thought given the weather that Butt might have been better in the centres than Mojo. Fine margins, tight decisions, which will add up in what looks to be a super competitive league this season.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Not a criticism of Reid, as he had a good game and was typically industrious, but in that weather, Hill would’ve excelled. Despite our depth, he’s going to be a massive miss, as I sense he’s one of those go to guys in tight games that somehow pulls us over the line. Certainly did last season - on his debut was it? - when he was MotM (with Shilcock at full back for us if I remember correctly).
Small aside- I’d have thought given the weather that Butt might have been better in the centres than Mojo. Fine margins, tight decisions, which will add up in what looks to be a super competitive league this season.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: fat lock (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 07:41
Quote:TomReagan
. My only consolation is that on the ST it works out at around £30ish quid a game. I pity those who paid £80+ to watch it..
This, I think is the issue for the future.
£81 to get soaked and bored, and the game is decided by decisions no one can understand. ( I’m not convinced even the ref understood )
Pretty poor product for an afternoon’s entertainment compared to other options available.
Supporters will follow their team come what may, but if you had watched some rugby on the telly through the RWC and thought you’d see what premiership rugby is like I doubt you’d return after that.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 07:53
Listened on the radio and v glad I didn't part with money for it.
Nz proved that it being wet doesn't really excuse dropping the ball over and over again , esp under no pressure.
Discipline seemed woeful and ref sounded clueless.
Congrats to leic , sounded decent value for the win and nice to see shilcock at a new home and performing well- class player who I enjoyed us briefly having.
I hope jvg gives them a rocket- we can't get into the pattern of playing ok for a few weeks and then being rubbish and losing games we should win. As others have said the league will be extremely tight and we will never get top 4 losing home games against teams stripped of most of their senior players.
Nz proved that it being wet doesn't really excuse dropping the ball over and over again , esp under no pressure.
Discipline seemed woeful and ref sounded clueless.
Congrats to leic , sounded decent value for the win and nice to see shilcock at a new home and performing well- class player who I enjoyed us briefly having.
I hope jvg gives them a rocket- we can't get into the pattern of playing ok for a few weeks and then being rubbish and losing games we should win. As others have said the league will be extremely tight and we will never get top 4 losing home games against teams stripped of most of their senior players.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:21
In defence of Jaco C he has rarely played due to injuries, mainly concussions. In the 2 games at home prior to yesterday he looked very, very good, although he had another failed HIA, was picked the following game and I vaguely recall he had to go off then too. My memory's not great on the specifics but in short he's very unlucky and potentially a very good 8 but as you say BH, his confidence must be very low right now. Taking that kick off head on in those conditions wasn't very bright.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:30
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:hasta
Honestly this could be the biggest bun fight for top four ever. Maybe everyone but Newcastle could make it.
I hope you’re right but I fear that the usual teams will dominate once those players are reinstated. We should have received a considerable bonus playing two much depleted teams but threw 3 points away, aided by an incompetent referee.
+1
For me there are 3 issues that will prevent Bath finishing anywhere near the top 4.
1) Discipline.
2) Lack of scrum dominance, at best we only manage parity.
3) Lineout, which has been poor for years.
Things are light years better under JvG, but not good enough to compete for trophies.
Going back to to yesterday, why are ref’s who don’t know the rules allowed in the Premiership? If there are any standards the guy yesterday will be removed from the rota until he completes a refereeing course.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:38
I love Tom dunn but he seems a common theme in a failing lineout. Annett is a better thrower I think personally.
Obviously not all down to the hookers by any means
Obviously not all down to the hookers by any means
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:41
Maybe that’s why my ref Mike wouldn’t work today I think LMr Makepiece turned it off
Widcombe Garçon
Quote:The BearQuote:OutsideBath
.
The ref was an absolute clown and should be sent to ref below the championship where he clearly belongs. More than one occasion he didn’t seem to know the rules.
At times I didn't know if I was watching Rugby Union or some other hybrid sport so far away from the rules Mr. Makepeace was. There been bad refereeing performances but that was surreal.
We still should have won, though and we are back to the era of brain-dead decisions (McNally - I dont care if the ref is wrong if he says stop then stop!).
Widcombe Garçon
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:46
Quote:TomReagan
In defence of Jaco C he has rarely played due to injuries, mainly concussions. In the 2 games at home prior to yesterday he looked very, very good, although he had another failed HIA, was picked the following game and I vaguely recall he had to go off then too. My memory's not great on the specifics but in short he's very unlucky and potentially a very good 8 but as you say BH, his confidence must be very low right now. Taking that kick off head on in those conditions wasn't very bright.
All fair points Tom.
My issue is we have loads and loads of high paid backrowers which is crazy.given the cap.
He was signed as a faletau replacement from memory and will be on a good wedge as was being talked about as a future bok.
Yesterday with underhill, hill and bayliss all out he still wasn't even first backrower off the bench.
His luck has been abysmal- injured after we announced his signing, nasty case of covid and has then managed to injure most parts of his body inc multiple head knocks.
One of the few times I have seen him live he was bossed by the du preez bros and then went off injured.
I imagine we signed on a 3 year contract. I would love to eat humble pie in 3 months time when we has managed to stay fit and is tearing up trees (he definitely has the ability) and is celebrating a new contract but at the moment I view him as terrible value for money/use of cap.
we have signed hill, barbeary, cloete since we signed him and reid has improved immeasurably (and become a genuine option at 8). they all seem ahead of him now.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:49
I think that on a day when Englands top referees are dealing with the World Cup final that is going to be a drop in quality, not an excuse but reality. I haven’t watch the game back to see the detail, but from my view in the stand there were certainly some unusual decisions…
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:29:08:50:47 by dcsh.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:29:08:50:47 by dcsh.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 08:54
Quote:dcsh
I think that on a day when Englands top referees are dealing with the World Cup final that is going to be a drop in quality, not an excuse but reality. I haven’t watch the game back to see the detail, but from my view in the stand there were certainly some unusual decisions…
Not all England's top referees were dealing with the final - Karl Dickson was running touch!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 09:40
Quote:charlieboa
I love Tom dunn but he seems a common theme in a failing lineout. Annett is a better thrower I think personally.
Obviously not all down to the hookers by any means
No but our line out can't dominate if its overthrown all the time. Perfect day for the driving maul. JvG will be disappointed our pack hasn't dominated more.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 09:46
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:charlieboa
I love Tom dunn but he seems a common theme in a failing lineout. Annett is a better thrower I think personally.
Obviously not all down to the hookers by any means
No but our line out can't dominate if its overthrown all the time. Perfect day for the driving maul. JvG will be disappointed our pack hasn't dominated more.
When has our pack dominated SW? It’s an area that constantly disappoints.
The backs are improving but not the forwards.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 09:55
Quote:OutsideBath
When has our pack dominated SW?
Against Sarries for a start although we may not be the high marker we once were!
I also think your pack looks much stronger than in previous seasons.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 10:10
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:OutsideBath
When has our pack dominated SW?
Against Sarries for a start although we may not be the high marker we once were!
I also think your pack looks much stronger than in previous seasons.
Agree, but not dominant, I expected it to be more, but perhaps its a bit early. What ruins the momentum is giving away penalties.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 10:49
Extremely sensible quote from JvG in the Guardian:
I'm annoyed at the result and we should have won, but also think it's not the worst thing in the world to keep our feet on the floor.
Quote:That’s the emotional rollercoaster of rugby,” said Van Graan. “We led with one minute to go, unfortunately we dropped the kick-off, there was a decision at the scrum, and they kick it over.
“If we win that game, it doesn’t mean everything is right, and if we lose that game, it doesn’t mean everything is wrong. We’re disappointed but we move forward.”
I'm annoyed at the result and we should have won, but also think it's not the worst thing in the world to keep our feet on the floor.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 11:21
Quote:hasta
Extremely sensible quote from JvG in the Guardian:Quote:That’s the emotional rollercoaster of rugby,” said Van Graan. “We led with one minute to go, unfortunately we dropped the kick-off, there was a decision at the scrum, and they kick it over.
“If we win that game, it doesn’t mean everything is right, and if we lose that game, it doesn’t mean everything is wrong. We’re disappointed but we move forward.”
I'm annoyed at the result and we should have won, but also think it's not the worst thing in the world to keep our feet on the floor.
Exactly my viewpoint too hasta ..... after the third beer
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Parcdeprince (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 11:35
Noticed quite a lot of empty seats on tv - was that ticket holders not turning up due to the weather/ RWC??
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hard work (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 12:06
Attendance of nearly 13k, higher than Exeter's 9k and Gloucester 11k (I think)...Bristol got 15k
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: rainbow (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 12:16
I would seriously doubt 13k at the game yesterday big gaps on the openside as well as the open end. I was quoted £66 a ticket to sit near the scoreboard, actually a good position , quite glad i passed up on that looked a trifle damp. £73 a ticket for the Exeter game in December just hope it doesn't rain so much, at my age i tend to rust easily in heavy rain.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 12:46
We looked at being very short but the announcement was about 750 short of max! Maybe many STHs didn’t turn up because of the weather or maybe worried about ER which didn’t affect my travel at all!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 12:52
Quote:OutsideBath
Definitely 3 points thrown away today, largely thanks to Cloete who should be dropped from the 23 for the foreseeable future.
I wasn't there but have seen a couple of comments about Cloete. What happened exactly?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 13:07
Quote:B4thB4ckQuote:OutsideBath
Definitely 3 points thrown away today, largely thanks to Cloete who should be dropped from the 23 for the foreseeable future.
I wasn't there but have seen a couple of comments about Cloete. What happened exactly?
There was about to be a scrum with Tigers feed under their posts. Cloete decided to start a scuffle so Ref awarded Tigers a penalty. Couple of plays later Tigers score a try which along with Coetzee being unable make a simple catch lost us the game.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 13:28
Quote:The4 other honourable mention goes to McNally for acting on his belief that the ref was wrong, despite knowing full well that the ref disagreed, and had the whistle.OutsideBath
There was about to be a scrum with Tigers feed under their posts. Cloete decided to start a scuffle so Ref awarded Tigers a penalty. Couple of plays later Tigers score a try which along with Coetzee being unable make a simple catch lost us the game.
With Cloete personally, it came hot off the back of last week's shenanigans.
Coetzee dropped a high ball in terrible conditions - I'm happy enough to forgive that, and had it happened at just about any other point in the match, it would have been a minor footnote. McNally and Cloete were brainless and unnecessary.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 14:06
Well said, QC.
Coetzee’s was one clanger- McNally and Cloete idiotic and more than once.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Coetzee’s was one clanger- McNally and Cloete idiotic and more than once.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 15:51
I'm not using it as an excuse but when the weather is that bad it's going to lead to a poor game. The winner likely to be the side that makes the fewest mistakes. Inevitably the backs won't be trusted to fling the ball around, Muir, Cokanasiga, Bassett, Hassle-Collins redundant other than catching the ball from long kicks. Big disappointment for Lee Blackett seeing his plan A ruined by the weather. As it's part of my season ticket I've just written the game off as one to forget and focused on having had an enjoyable day with friends and my son. Excellent pre match lunch and great post match entertainment in a soggy Swift Half. But I do feel sorry for the occasional spectators who paid a lot of money and maybe came some distance for the game. Yesterday will really make them think twice about coming back. It also highlighted the need to improve the stadium. Fortunately the next game is Bristol so there probably be enough interest to fill the ground. That's one game spoilt by the weather, we've only got 7 more league games, please let it be dry.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 16:51
Interesting to see if the Briz game a sell-out. £60 to stand on the terrace, twice the cost of a terrace ticket at Kingsholm in a fortnight.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 17:19
Agree FA.
Weather makes games like that a bit of a lottery -including referee decisions.
Saturday's ref clearly had issues as the bizarre business over the body check penalty & where to take it showed.
Disappointed of course-as the squad should be- but a good DOR & coaching team will use that to motivate and a good squad will work to minimise the variables in any future game spoiled by a downpour.
PG
Weather makes games like that a bit of a lottery -including referee decisions.
Saturday's ref clearly had issues as the bizarre business over the body check penalty & where to take it showed.
Disappointed of course-as the squad should be- but a good DOR & coaching team will use that to motivate and a good squad will work to minimise the variables in any future game spoiled by a downpour.
PG
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 20:10
FA Chiefs demolished Sale in the wet and whilst they weren't flinging it about it is still a decent watch IMO. Any plan which is based on only blues skies, dry grounds and sunshine is probably onto a bit of a loser in the UK!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 29/10/2023 22:08
I'm with PG, they should have learnt a lot and it could be pretty motivational.
Bath definitely felt like the better team and I was confident they would come back. What I didn't factor for was the poor decion making returning - not just at the end but throughout the match. As OM says there will be many more days like this and a good stretch of them - we need to be able to pick our battles better.
Bath definitely felt like the better team and I was confident they would come back. What I didn't factor for was the poor decion making returning - not just at the end but throughout the match. As OM says there will be many more days like this and a good stretch of them - we need to be able to pick our battles better.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: A2O (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 10:12
Having watched the game back I thought that Tigers just deserved the win primarily because their forwards did the basics better. Whilst Finn Russell did what Finn Russell does I thought Shillcock also had a good game. Both sides gave away dumb penalties although the weather had a big bearing and probably favoured Tigers. Look forward to the return match at Welford Road when hopefully both sides will be nearer full strength.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: copester (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 10:25
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:B4thB4ckQuote:OutsideBath
Definitely 3 points thrown away today, largely thanks to Cloete who should be dropped from the 23 for the foreseeable future.
I wasn't there but have seen a couple of comments about Cloete. What happened exactly?
There was about to be a scrum with Tigers feed under their posts. Cloete decided to start a scuffle so Ref awarded Tigers a penalty. Couple of plays later Tigers score a try which along with Coetzee being unable make a simple catch lost us the game.
Cloete along with Lee Warner and Hill has added some much needed aggression and fight that we had been missing for years up front. The bust up over the try line didnt bother me as much as shooting out of the line and giving tigers a penalty which proved costly.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 10:28
It seemed to me that Cloete was playing a little on tilt, maybe he was over hyped to come on (I have a feeling this was the same the other week too). His aggression and attitude is something we need, perhaps it just needs 5% tempering or him to start rather than come off the bench?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 10:32
I thought the substitution of Cloete for FLW was a strange one. FLW didn’t look like he had a knock, he hasn’t played much recently, and was having a good game. He also looked hacked off to be coming off.
Having reflected, I agree copestar that we’ve lacked Cloete’s ‘edge’ so I don’t hate the fact he brings a bit of niggle. The penalty on Saturday was silly but it didn’t lose the game. He’s one of those players that I think you’d hate to play against (I think he really wound up Sarries!), hence why it’s good having him on our side. Far more good than bad in his game for me.
On Saturday, the strange/poor choice was him coming on for FLW. Horrid day, lineout attack and defence all important, scrum too. So I’d have kept the big 6 on.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Having reflected, I agree copestar that we’ve lacked Cloete’s ‘edge’ so I don’t hate the fact he brings a bit of niggle. The penalty on Saturday was silly but it didn’t lose the game. He’s one of those players that I think you’d hate to play against (I think he really wound up Sarries!), hence why it’s good having him on our side. Far more good than bad in his game for me.
On Saturday, the strange/poor choice was him coming on for FLW. Horrid day, lineout attack and defence all important, scrum too. So I’d have kept the big 6 on.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 10:34
About 10 minutes before the game I sunbscribed to TNT, couldnt bear to miss it. There were lots of mistakes given the weather, could have gone either way. I wasn't that disappointed in the end, but I may reflect back on this at the end of the season (hopefully it will make a difference if you get what I mean)
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 11:09
With a front row of Obano, Dunn & Du Toit I’d have thought w’d have had total control of the scrum but that was far from the case & the way we failed to stop their try from a rolling maul was dreadful. The forwards coach has a lot of work to do if we are going to mount a challenge.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hard work (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 11:15
I don't know the rules well enough, but it seemed Cloete stepped out of the line, realised his error, and moved back before the scrum half had played the ball
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 11:19
We're top, BH. I think it's fair to say we have much room for improvement but it's safe to say that we are mounting a challenge.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 11:29
Quote:hard work
I don't know the rules well enough, but it seemed Cloete stepped out of the line, realised his error, and moved back before the scrum half had played the ball
We were poor and our errors/stupidity meant we didn't deserve to win.
I do agree with your interpretation though and in a stop/start game in terrible conditions the last thing you need is unsympathetic officials giving decisions that have absolutely no impact on the game. If he shoots out of the line/ takes a flier next time when the ball is actually being used then fair enough to penalise.
An inexperienced official deciding the game on a scrum call that to me looks absurd is also disappointing but again no complaints with the result- with the respective availability of the 2 teams we shouldn't have let him be so tight that officials judgement came into it.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 15:08
Quote:dr.bath1865
We're top, BH. I think it's fair to say we have much room for improvement but it's safe to say that we are mounting a challenge.
Too early to say DR. The season proper starts next weekend if all the players are back by then.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 19:29
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:dr.bath1865
We're top, BH. I think it's fair to say we have much room for improvement but it's safe to say that we are mounting a challenge.
Too early to say DR. The season proper starts next weekend if all the players are back by then.
I think the England players need to be rester BH
Widcombe Garçon
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: A2O (IP Logged)
Date: 30/10/2023 22:09
Quote:Maybe you under estimated the Tigers front row. Cronin, Claire and Heyes are no mean front row. Cronin is our first choice LH , Claire is a big unit for a hooker and Heyes is a good TH although he has the odd poor game.Bath Hammer
With a front row of Obano, Dunn & Du Toit I’d have thought w’d have had total control of the scrum but that was far from the case & the way we failed to stop their try from a rolling maul was dreadful. The forwards coach has a lot of work to do if we are going to mount a challenge.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 08:35
A20 - I think some probably did underestimate you. I thought your 23 looked v v good considering how many you had out but did expect us to get the upper hand in the frontrow tbh as only missing stuart. Hadn't realised cronin was first choice LH.
Do you think Joe heyes will work his way back into the england squad if cole and sinckler aren't in the picture? Still relatively young for a prop and been involved with England before. Does he have the potential to be a good international?
Do you think Joe heyes will work his way back into the england squad if cole and sinckler aren't in the picture? Still relatively young for a prop and been involved with England before. Does he have the potential to be a good international?
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: A2O (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 09:13
The general opinion down here in Tigerland is that Joe Heyes is still learning the art of scrummaging. Being quite a tall prop he sometimes has problems when he comes up against shorter LH’s who try to get under him and force him upwards. However, we are hopeful that with the guidance required he will be in the running for the England team as he’s just got something about him. Regarding Cronin Munster fans thought he had a raw deal from the Irish selectors and didn’t get as many caps as he deserved.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: IanC (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 10:35
In all honesty Joe's plateaued (or even gone backwards a bit). He really should have been pushing Cole for the starting jersey (and almost was at one point.) He wouldn't be at the moment. Genuine talent if he improves as he should.
Having watched the game back, the thing that stood out for me was the number of times Bath players ignored the referee. Everyone does it sometimes, and I'm not saying the referee was correct in shouting 'tackled' or 'leave it' every time he did, but mostly he's going to think he was right and you're not going to successfully substitute your judgement for his. Given that he's also (allegedly!) human, he probably isn't going to be kindly disposed towards the side that keeps doing it.
Absolutely no offence meant, just an observation post-game.
Of course, I would have thought it was a pretty easy fix, so probably a good lesson learned.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:31:10:37:12 by IanC.
Having watched the game back, the thing that stood out for me was the number of times Bath players ignored the referee. Everyone does it sometimes, and I'm not saying the referee was correct in shouting 'tackled' or 'leave it' every time he did, but mostly he's going to think he was right and you're not going to successfully substitute your judgement for his. Given that he's also (allegedly!) human, he probably isn't going to be kindly disposed towards the side that keeps doing it.
Absolutely no offence meant, just an observation post-game.
Of course, I would have thought it was a pretty easy fix, so probably a good lesson learned.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:31:10:37:12 by IanC.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 10:38
Quote:Absolutely no offence meant, just an observation post-game.
None taken, I think we all observed the same, particularly about McNally, Cloete (and once Cokanasiga too)
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: IanC (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 10:42
Thanks Hasta and as you probably gathered I wonder how much the potentially hacked off nature of the referee might have fed into the last scrum. I know they shouldn't let things affect them, but...
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 11:30
Quote:Absolutely, we're pretty good at @#$%& off the ref - it's never a good idea, and it absolutely will colour future 50/50 decisions.IanC
Thanks Hasta and as you probably gathered I wonder how much the potentially hacked off nature of the referee might have fed into the last scrum. I know they shouldn't let things affect them, but...
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 12:21
Quote:IanC
In all honesty Joe's plateaued (or even gone backwards a bit). He really should have been pushing Cole for the starting jersey (and almost was at one point.) He wouldn't be at the moment. Genuine talent if he improves as he should.
Are you meaning Cokanasiga or Stuart ?
Think Cokansiga had a very solid game, did nothing wrong on the rip where he was penalised player was no where near the floor. Very very nice break from him.
Agree re Stuart to an extent but we saw the impact he had back end of the season with his carrying. I think he will excel with TDT rotating often.
For Saints I would really like to see one of the younger backrowers given a spot on the bench. Merigan or Green possibly would be able to give some ball-carrying off the bench
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 12:32
Quote:HK890Quote:IanC
In all honesty Joe's plateaued (or even gone backwards a bit). He really should have been pushing Cole for the starting jersey (and almost was at one point.) He wouldn't be at the moment. Genuine talent if he improves as he should.
Are you meaning Cokanasiga or Stuart ?
Think Cokansiga had a very solid game, did nothing wrong on the rip where he was penalised player was no where near the floor. Very very nice break from him.
Agree re Stuart to an extent but we saw the impact he had back end of the season with his carrying. I think he will excel with TDT rotating often.
For Saints I would really like to see one of the younger backrowers given a spot on the bench. Merigan or Green possibly would be able to give some ball-carrying off the bench
He's talking about Joe Heyes.
Cokanasiga might have been technically correct with the rip, but the ref had already called tackle (even if he was wrong) so he should have let it go.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 12:43
I have only seen the ITV highlights so a poor judge overall but I suspect that McNally was annoyed that the Tigers scrum half kicked the ball straight up in the air and their pack did not retreat?
The step out of line was unfortunate, he stepped back immediately and was not involved in the next play, some refs don't give those.
The dropped ball, whilst in bad conditions was actually the worst for me as it was bad technique, should have been catching sideways on so the ball would tend to go backwards if spilt.
The step out of line was unfortunate, he stepped back immediately and was not involved in the next play, some refs don't give those.
The dropped ball, whilst in bad conditions was actually the worst for me as it was bad technique, should have been catching sideways on so the ball would tend to go backwards if spilt.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 14:22
Quote:B4thB4ck
The dropped ball, whilst in bad conditions was actually the worst for me as it was bad technique, should have been catching sideways on so the ball would tend to go backwards if spilt.
For me the worst thing was the stupid scuffle started by Cloete resulting in a penalty. Definitely a reason to be dropped from the 23 for this weekend.
However dropping an easy catch is a close second.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: IanC (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 14:51
HK890 - Joe Heyes, my apologies it was in answer to the previous two posts.
I then went off on another direction - apologies - and Hasta makes exactly the point I was making. The referee is right in those circumstances, even if he's wrong. I've rarely seem one shout tackle then change their mind because a player didn't release.
I then went off on another direction - apologies - and Hasta makes exactly the point I was making. The referee is right in those circumstances, even if he's wrong. I've rarely seem one shout tackle then change their mind because a player didn't release.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 15:47
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:B4thB4ck
The dropped ball, whilst in bad conditions was actually the worst for me as it was bad technique, should have been catching sideways on so the ball would tend to go backwards if spilt.
For me the worst thing was the stupid scuffle started by Cloete resulting in a penalty. Definitely a reason to be dropped from the 23 for this weekend.
However dropping an easy catch is a close second.
Unfortunately the scuffle/penalty didn't make the ITV highlights cut. I have seen a few games over the years where it might have done, but not this match.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 16:38
Quote:A2OQuote:Maybe you under estimated the Tigers front row. Cronin, Claire and Heyes are no mean front row. Cronin is our first choice LH , Claire is a big unit for a hooker and Heyes is a good TH although he has the odd poor game.Bath Hammer
With a front row of Obano, Dunn & Du Toit I’d have thought w’d have had total control of the scrum but that was far from the case & the way we failed to stop their try from a rolling maul was dreadful. The forwards coach has a lot of work to do if we are going to mount a challenge.
Ours was a first choice combo though with 21 fairly recent international caps whilst you only had one first choice with 3 caps years ago. I would have expected us to have had the edge. Disappointing.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 18:29
Quote:B4thB4ck
The dropped ball, whilst in bad conditions was actually the worst for me as it was bad technique, should have been catching sideways on so the ball would tend to go backwards if spilt.
I don’t have an issue with the dropped ball, it’s pouring it down it happens and he will take that 9 times out of 10. That can also be coached
What cannot is Cloete smacking a player on the floor and causing a scuffle, losing great field positioning. Or McNally crawling round the side of the maul after being told he is illegal.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 31/10/2023 21:05
Heyes is still only 24 but after 5 years and 130+ senior games training/alternating with Cole, I would have hoped he'd be a better player by now. He doesn't seem to do anything particularly well.
Could still pick up more England caps but only due to a lack of alternatives.
Could still pick up more England caps but only due to a lack of alternatives.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 01/11/2023 07:19
Thanks for the joe heyes feedback from tigers and bath fans, much appreciated.
I think England may an (even bigger) issue at tighthead moving forward.
Cole I assume will retire, sinckler heavily linked with a move to France.
Stuart and heyes don't seem to have kicked on as we all hoped.
Some people think exeter could turn painter into a good option.
Glos has signed a good prospect from Irish who plays eng u20s.
Any other good options?
I am a Billy sela superfan and not totally absurd to think if everything goes perfectly in his development that in 4 years time heading towards being 23 yrs old he could be an option.
He is in the rfu front 5 forwards development squad so clearly in the national selectors thoughts as being a potential gem (along with kirk and bennett)
I think England may an (even bigger) issue at tighthead moving forward.
Cole I assume will retire, sinckler heavily linked with a move to France.
Stuart and heyes don't seem to have kicked on as we all hoped.
Some people think exeter could turn painter into a good option.
Glos has signed a good prospect from Irish who plays eng u20s.
Any other good options?
I am a Billy sela superfan and not totally absurd to think if everything goes perfectly in his development that in 4 years time heading towards being 23 yrs old he could be an option.
He is in the rfu front 5 forwards development squad so clearly in the national selectors thoughts as being a potential gem (along with kirk and bennett)
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 01/11/2023 07:23
I think my frustration about Saturday links in with what Lee blackett has been saying.
There is now 18 league games- we aren't in the days of 20+ games where you can afford slip ups and losing home games you should be winning as you have plenty of opps to rectify.
I know jvg has come across as very philosophical but I imagine behind close doors he is pretty angry and knows its dropped points.
Rob baxter is awesome at keeping an even keel - difference is he and exeter earned the right to not overreact by becoming extremely good, extremely consistent and winning trophies.
There is now 18 league games- we aren't in the days of 20+ games where you can afford slip ups and losing home games you should be winning as you have plenty of opps to rectify.
I know jvg has come across as very philosophical but I imagine behind close doors he is pretty angry and knows its dropped points.
Rob baxter is awesome at keeping an even keel - difference is he and exeter earned the right to not overreact by becoming extremely good, extremely consistent and winning trophies.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/11/2023 09:35
In relation to the front row battle - I think maybe we have forgotten that Beno's scrummaging was always thought to be the weaker part of his game and as such he spent a fair amount of time on the bench coming on as an impact player for his dynamic ball carrying.
Personally and no disrespect meant I am not convinced he is a huge scrummager - he certainly is no Ox Nche, Kitshoff or even a Joe Marler.
I see last Saturday's game as 3 points lost however - the weather made it a lottery and Tigers were clinical when they got the chance. The referee was appalling but he was for both sides.
It is such a pleasant change to see the reaction from losing a game by a point to a side as strong as Tigers given where we have come from in past 4 years in particularly - not long ago we would have been "over the moon" to get a LBP.
Our side is evolving and it will have ups and downs the main aspect is that they learn from this and how to win in these conditions and control the official - because there will be another Mr Makepeace out there who is woefully out of his depth but it is about adapting to them and Tigers did that better than we did and deserved to win IMHO.
Personally and no disrespect meant I am not convinced he is a huge scrummager - he certainly is no Ox Nche, Kitshoff or even a Joe Marler.
I see last Saturday's game as 3 points lost however - the weather made it a lottery and Tigers were clinical when they got the chance. The referee was appalling but he was for both sides.
It is such a pleasant change to see the reaction from losing a game by a point to a side as strong as Tigers given where we have come from in past 4 years in particularly - not long ago we would have been "over the moon" to get a LBP.
Our side is evolving and it will have ups and downs the main aspect is that they learn from this and how to win in these conditions and control the official - because there will be another Mr Makepeace out there who is woefully out of his depth but it is about adapting to them and Tigers did that better than we did and deserved to win IMHO.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 01/11/2023 09:58
Interesting points re beno Ali.
I felt after his latest comeback from serious injury his scrummaging has gone from a weakness to a strength but maybe that's my rose tinted glasses.
I was wondering if he could become England's answer to ox- similar age and physique but would need to keep improving a lot to be in that bracket
I felt after his latest comeback from serious injury his scrummaging has gone from a weakness to a strength but maybe that's my rose tinted glasses.
I was wondering if he could become England's answer to ox- similar age and physique but would need to keep improving a lot to be in that bracket
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 01/11/2023 10:22
Quote:charlieboa
Interesting points re beno Ali.
I felt after his latest comeback from serious injury his scrummaging has gone from a weakness to a strength but maybe that's my rose tinted glasses.
I was wondering if he could become England's answer to ox- similar age and physique but would need to keep improving a lot to be in that bracket
Agree, he is still evolving and I get the impression Beno is only functioning at about 3/4 commitment in the loose. Takes time after injury to commit the body 100%
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: BathSalmon (IP Logged)
Date: 02/11/2023 07:33
1. Du Toit
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
Would be a formidable scrummaging front row.
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
Would be a formidable scrummaging front row.
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/11/2023 09:34
Quote:charlieboa
I think my frustration about Saturday links in with what Lee blackett has been saying.
There is now 18 league games- we aren't in the days of 20+ games where you can afford slip ups and losing home games you should be winning as you have plenty of opps to rectify.
I was thinking exactly this the day after. There is now just a maximum of 90 points on offer. That's a big drop from a 12 team league
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: 9215 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/11/2023 00:42
Another way of looking at the shortened season is that we’re already 1/6th of the way through and we’re top of the table
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 03/11/2023 07:36
Quote:9215
Another way of looking at the shortened season is that we’re already 1/6th of the way through and we’re top of the table
Afraid you aren't going to lure me away from position of being a miserable b*&ger about this result.
We have played bottom of the league at home, a good team missing nearly all their best players away, and another team missing nearly all their best players at home.... whilst missing very few players ourselves.
I am chuffed to be top of the league of course but our fixtures have been kind so far. Saying that I think our next few games feel winnable and if we are 4 wins from 5 I will definitely be v jolly!
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/11/2023 09:11
Quote:charlieboaQuote:9215
Another way of looking at the shortened season is that we’re already 1/6th of the way through and we’re top of the table
Afraid you aren't going to lure me away from position of being a miserable b*&ger about this result.
We have played bottom of the league at home, a good team missing nearly all their best players away, and another team missing nearly all their best players at home.... whilst missing very few players ourselves.
I am chuffed to be top of the league of course but our fixtures have been kind so far. Saying that I think our next few games feel winnable and if we are 4 wins from 5 I will definitely be v jolly!
The other way of looking at this is that there is very little difference in the overall quality of squads in the prem now. There will be a lot of A beats B, B beats C and C beats A
All the more reason we really need to not drop points where we shouldn't but I genuinely think this year the difference between first and say sixth will be much closer than before
Re: Bath v Leicester - Burning Bright
Posted by: charlieboa (IP Logged)
Date: 03/11/2023 10:15
Agree gaz.
Can see 1-9 being v tight tbh and hope it's 1-10.
3 rounds in and no one has won all 3 tells a story
Can see 1-9 being v tight tbh and hope it's 1-10.
3 rounds in and no one has won all 3 tells a story
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