Get Up and Go Again...

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

charlieboa
We still have decent options , it's just very unfortunate we are now missing 8 and bris are missing 1.
It doesn't feel completely illogical to feel a bit peaved about that when the league is incredibly tight and this could completely skew the result in a key game (every game is key now cos its so tight in the race for top 4)

Surely if the PL was better organised this issue could have been avoided?

A much weakened Bath against a near full strength Bristol is wrong and devalues the entertainment value for fans.

Will not be surprising if clubs are reluctant to have England players in the squad going forward.

This season it is so much better than previous seasons. With only his game being affected by camps. And allowing a break for players to rest. I don’t think it devalues anything - we are still favourites for this game and I would argue have put out a better side.

There is a reason we have lots of players selected and they don’t. There is even more reason to have England players now when they will less games then previous and have their wages paid partly by the RFU

Quote:

HK890
There is even more reason to have England players now when they will less games then previous and have their wages paid partly by the RFU

Isn't that only 25 players HK890? I can't see Bath having half a dozen on central contracts - only shoe-in for a central contract being Lawrence IMO.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

HK890
There is even more reason to have England players now when they will less games then previous and have their wages paid partly by the RFU

Isn't that only 25 players HK890? I can't see Bath having half a dozen on central contracts - only shoe-in for a central contract being Lawrence IMO.

Yep only key core but I wound imagine that would include - Stuart/Underhill/Lawrence

I don’t see the disadvantage of having England internationals plus Obano/Spencer/Ojomoh/Muir were not before this year and they’ve got in from their good performances. So what are we meant to get rid of them because they’re playing well ?

The best teams will always have internationals go away - but what separates them is their depth.

BoD says it’s 15 seasons since Bath won in Bristol, is that correct?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

Old Bath Tub
BoD says it’s 15 seasons since Bath won in Bristol, is that correct?

Quite a few of those seasons we wouldn’t have had the chance because we weren’t in the championship.

Yes Joe!

Finn Russell strolls out eating strawberry sours then drops the ball into Joes C's hands who brushes past 15 then Ibitoye for the try. Simples!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Absolute wet wipe tacklling there

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Two Bristol tries in a few minutes, tackling?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Two Bristol tries in a few minutes, tackling?

Poor…

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Yellow for Coetzee, correct I reckon.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

We’re getting too narrow again which has been a bit of an issue across several games

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Bit like last week- seem to have come out of the changing rooms not quite on it, especially in defence. Still, right in the game, and hopefully like the last few weeks we’ll build and become more powerful as the game goes on.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Anyone spot Cockansiga at that break down in the corner? Crazy!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Not loading breakdowns

Weak first up tackles

Getting sucked in and turning shoulders infield

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Jesus we are really making an absolute mess of this game

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

What an absolute mess. Our brains are fried. Soft in defence and ridiculous discipline and decision making.

Without Spencer, we’ve got no one whipping us into gear.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Down to 13! Schreuder DKO


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

This is becoming very hard to watch. Very reminiscent of the dark days of the last couple of seasons.

Absolute rubbish-we haven’t played this badly in months

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

JK7
This is becoming very hard to watch. Very reminiscent of the dark days of the last couple of seasons.

Hardly surprising the match is being lost as we are forced to hand over so many players to England.

Pathetic. I know we’re missing a few and our week must’ve been extremely disjointed, but the 15 guys in the shirt just aren’t on it at the moment at all.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

JK7
This is becoming very hard to watch. Very reminiscent of the dark days of the last couple of seasons.

Hardly surprising the match is being lost as we are forced to hand over so many players to England.

On the one hand yes, we'd be stronger with them, but on the other this 15/23 should be able to put in a much, much better performance than it has so far.

AH right - why are we kicking a 3 on 2?

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

With Coetzee on the field (ie in the breakdown), we look a much better team. Discipline is everything.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

It’s not sodding touch rugby for gods sake

Woeful

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

We look absolutely exhausted.

Can we sort out this bloody midfield defence?!?

J

Quote:

JK7

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

JK7
This is becoming very hard to watch. Very reminiscent of the dark days of the last couple of seasons.

Hardly surprising the match is being lost as we are forced to hand over so many players to England.

On the one hand yes, we'd be stronger with them, but on the other this 15/23 should be able to put in a much, much better performance than it has so far.

Simple solution in the future for me is to reduce the number of England players in the squad then this sort of thing won’t happen.

Yeh we do look knackered. Blown away. Suppose always a danger following Toulouse and lack of training this week.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Who is going to step up for Bath?

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Absolutely horrific.

Bristol playing the best they've played since they bottled that semi 3 years ago really isn't helping.

Can we turn up for the second half……please ?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Dunn…

Sorry he is just costing us too much possession

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Can’t remember last time we conceded 33 points in a half.

A try before half time would’ve helped massively but, oddly, I don’t think we’re out of it. We’ve been really poor but, for me, Randall has been the major difference between the sides.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Dunn and Reid look wrecked to be fair. Joe C slows into contact again, he's such a contradiction!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

In certain positions there’s simply too much drop off fin quality with our back up players.

That said our midfield defence is utterly awful

Worst 40 minutes of the season and it’s not even close

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

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P G Tips

Quote:

Ali1969
It had to happen at some time this season -
Official for the match - Ian Tempest

Not been good to us in the past but like the Ashton Gate voodoo it has to end at some point.

His errors in the corresponding fixture 3 years ago were acknowledged by his boss - so I would expect him to be on his guard this time.

PG

I take that back.
Twice penalised Coetzee for playing on when he was not held after a tackle.

Not to say that we are playing well - which we mostly are not!

PG

Quote:

shipwrecked
Dunn and Reid look wrecked to be fair. Joe C slows into contact again, he's such a contradiction!

All things being equal, Annett should now be our starting hooker.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
Not loading breakdowns
Weak first up tackles

Getting sucked in and turning shoulders infield

All of this.

Plus some really stupid and avoidable decisions being made. Coetzee getting pinged twice in five mins for trying to go again after being tackled and two completely avoidable yellow cards.

Going to have to be s heck of a half time talk if we're to come out swinging! (In a totally legal way of course)

Schreuder needs to do more in defence, Randall is all over him, Butt and Redpath should swap Redpath reads the game better.
TCS at 60.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Perfect start to 2nd half.

I think there was only one scrum in the first half.

Game on!

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Game… off.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Tearing my hair out at our weak first up tackling

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Anyone seen a ruck where Bristol HAVE stayed on their feet?!

Adopted Players: All of the little blighters!!!

Quote:

plong
Anyone seen a ruck where Bristol HAVE stayed on their feet?!

Probably as many as we've actually challenged
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD

Ref bottling it?

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Honestly just falling off so many tackles.

Defence coach must have exploded with frustration by now.

Utterly unacceptable

Pathetic defence. The number of tackles we’ve failed to complete is absolutely ridiculous. Worst we’ve been individually in years.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Dreadful, dreadful tackling. Straight through Schreuder.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Errr why is that not a yellow card for Bristol

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

So much for being difficult to beat, the defence is embarrassing and certain players don’t look like they want to be on the pitch.

Jesus we have to just look at Bristol wrong and get 2 yellows and he is only just warning them…

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

I know let's do exactly what didn't work last week. Over and over again.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Glad I’m not watching this as the score line is reminiscent of the dark days of Hooper.

I see we’re still trying the “try and burrow over from 3m out for 15 phases before getting held up” tactic.

I actually think Tempest has been pretty good.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Oh look the f forwards get held up again…

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

So the one that's on the line is called short and the held up short is called held up over the line!

Tempest making all the big calls in Bristol's favour........ yet again in this fixture

And again. Ibbotoye deliberate knock on, no yellow.
Consistentency?

So Bristol om a final warning, give away another penalty 7 m out, but the yellow stays in the pocket?

Quote:

Dorset Boy
And again. Ibbotoye deliberate knock on, no yellow.
Consistentency?

put both hands out.
But how they are not down to 14 is a mystery

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Finally

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

Toast and Marmite

Quote:

Dorset Boy
And again. Ibbotoye deliberate knock on, no yellow.
Consistentency?

put both hands out.
But how they are not down to 14 is a mystery

With no hope of catching it

Why not go for a scrum?

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Great.

Watch Bristol run straight through us at the restart

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

That’s definitely a try isn’t it? What is going on with this ref team

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Rosie is having an absolute mare.
Clearly down. as was one earlier.
Failed to force the right call when Luitua was offside stopping try earlier.

Quote:

Dorset Boy
Rosie is having an absolute mare.
Clearly down. as was one earlier.
Failed to force the right call when Luitua was offside stopping try earlier.

Absolutely awful

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Penalty try, 14 Bristol in the bin.

5 mins against 13

Rosie is about to put us right back in the game with a PT and a yellow card.

I’ll say it again… game on.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Rosie is about to put us right back in the game with a PT and a yellow card.
I’ll say it again… game on.

This is insane

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Well now...

TCS passing so much snappier.

Only we could make hard work of an exit against 13 men

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Yes TCS has been excellent.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

That's a terrible call from Tempest - the ball was totally available, he was looking right at it!!! Still he penalises Stooke and buys Bristol points (or at least should have) and time off the cards.

Yeah sometimes you can be too relaxed Finn

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

What a mad game. I’ve never seen a 22 drop out bounce dead before!

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

That is a terrible terrible call

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Big screen m here please

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Well that’s just utterly brain dead fro Russell

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Oh, Finn. That's some wacky stuff.

Quote:

JK7
Oh, Finn. That's some wacky stuff.

wacky? Simply not good enough for a player of his quality
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Regardless of entertainment level that I was a shocker

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

What a stupid game.

Conceding 8 tries is embarrassing.

Utterly bonkers game.
Did well to come back into it but some suicidal plays by us, and some shockingly poor calls from the officials, although outside the big calls they were pretty good.

Quote:

hasta
What a stupid game.

I need several drinks and a couple of hours before I can pick the bones out of that.

Defence - woeful
Decision making moronic
Ref team - out of their depth

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Ridiculous. Not sure title challengers should ever concede 57 points.

Despite missing our Eng internationals, it feels like a massive missed opportunity. We dominated the second half completely, but didn’t convert enough and allowed them to score at will. Hugely frustrating.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

What a silly game of rugby. And to be fair Bristol do silly better than most.

Think a break will do the whole squad some good. Schreuder’s break can be as long as he likes.

Quote:

OutsideBath
Conceding 8 tries is embarrassing.

Yeah, regardless of anything else, that is the key stat.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Ridiculous. Not sure title challengers should ever concede 57 points.

Are we really title challengers though?

First half defence was non-existant, just too slack at the breakdown gave Bristol super quick ball. Defence then struggles, but we missed a lot of tackles.

Really don't understand why we didn't get an earlier penalty try when Luitua prevented the score from the offside position - exactly the reasoning given for the subsequent PT.

It was said when we signed Finn that he would lose us a few games, but win us many more.

Also a game with only 3 or 4 scrums.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Ridiculous. Not sure title challengers should ever concede 57 points.

Are we really title challengers though?

Depends what team you select!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Player mike added nothing btw

Player Mic - utter waster of time!

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shipwrecked

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Ridiculous. Not sure title challengers should ever concede 57 points.

Are we really title challengers though?

Depends what team you select!

I don’t think any team we select wins away in a semifinal and with the games left top 2 seems unlikely. So not sure we are real challengers.

Either way though we are improving and the season has mostly been fun.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Ridiculous. Not sure title challengers should ever concede 57 points.

Are we really title challengers though?

At one stage I thought we might be & so did the pundits but no title challengers would concede 57 points to a team not in the best of form. I thought we might snatch at least 2 bonus points but we are far to loose. We have much harder matches to come. Top 4 will be a challenge let alone top 2

I imagine that could have been an entertaining game for a neutral, not for us though

That was as unlike a Bath performance as I have seen in 12 months more akin.to Hooper era.

Write this one off - Thanks Borthwick and Townsend we looked disjointed and a team who had not trained together all week against a desperate team.

Well played Bristol.

Quite a few lessons learned I’d say. TCS is ahead of Schreuder, Alfie G is the real deal, we have to trust our reserve 10, Bailey or whoever, someone needs to look at what we do 5 m out, we have to tackle first time.
Biggest factor in the game though was the turnaround was too fast.
Bristol we’re giving away penalties by the bucket load and we still lost. We were a rugby charity today!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

TMO had a mare
If a deliberate knock on with cover by Bath = yellow what does one by Bristol =??
Why did it take 8 defensive penalties in a row for Bris card and just one for Bath?
Should have had at least one more pen try. For illegally collapsed maul. And another for just lying in front of the ball no attempt to tackle or catch the ball.
Having said that mid field defence was of the wet lettuce variety and I think TCS needs to get promoted to second choice.

Just so disappointed by that performance. The lack of tackling was woeful at times, reminded me more of a Barbarians or a charity game. Although the Finn kick was a head in hands moment , it comes as part of the whole package that will win us many matches.

To be honest thought Coetzee was brilliant today the head in head contact was caused by another tackler changing the direction of Bradbury. Incorrectly penalised twice when not held and leniency shown by Tempest towards Bears continual infringements was unbelievable at times - the Dunn tackle Luatua not only offside throughout but also around Dunns neck.

Well played Bristol though thought we were unusual today.

Frustrating, feels like we got the selection wrong and allowed Bristol quick ball for the first half that truly cost us.
Can’t believe how many penalties Bristol conceded before getting a card when each out ours were marginal for single offences.
Feels like 4 point lost.

Russell motm.........for bears

It was entertaining and let's be honest with a full strength team we would have walked it.

Frustrating loss, felt like everything stuck for Bristol today.

Short turnaround from Toulouse and added disruption of 3 late call ups to the England squad who would have most likely been down to play today, was evident.

Quote:

Bath Blues
Russell motm.........for bears
It was entertaining and let's be honest with a full strength team we would have walked it.

We’re not going to get close to winning anything if we collapse completely when we don’t have our first choice team available. When we saw the team most of us thought it looked quite strong enough to win this match, particularly bearing in mind the Bristol absentees. We can’t turn around after we get thumped & say the team was too weak, nor can we blame the TMO etc. Those are all just excuses.

Quote:

by
Short turnaround from Toulouse and added disruption of 3 late call ups to the England squad who would have most likely been down to play today, was evident.

TBH, I think that's the key.
We had 1 training session in the week, with Ewels in the row, Redpath at 12, Mojo at 13 and Muir on the wing; which can't have helped.

TBH, today was about fine margins, that change would have made a difference (as would a 22 drop not going too long, or the final kick pass, or a PT&Yellow for the maul foul, or this or that or the other...)

Must have been a ridiculously entertaining match for anyone without a vested interest in the result.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD

That 22 drop out going dead was a killer. We had great momentum, Bris had just missed a kick, we still had men advantage, we were upping the tempo, were back within a score and had a great opportunity to put them under pressure.

Then suddenly they have a scrum back on the 22, they get a dubious penalty which takes them clear and we're having to take a lot more chances. It was really unlucky.

So, next game is a ‘must win’ to stay in the hunt for top six !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Quote:

hasta
That 22 drop out going dead was a killer. We had great momentum, Bris had just missed a kick, we still had men advantage, we were upping the tempo, were back within a score and had a great opportunity to put them under pressure.
Then suddenly they have a scrum back on the 22, they get a dubious penalty which takes them clear and we're having to take a lot more chances. It was really unlucky.

Unlucky is right there. There was plenty of space to play to and he had Bristol scambling until the bounce kicked it towards the line. That outcome is just so unlikely

Quote:

OutsideBath

Simple solution in the future for me is to reduce the number of England players in the squad then this sort of thing won’t happen.

So how will that work?
Do you really think we would make the top 3rd of the table without Obano, Stuart, Ewels, Underhill, Spencer, Lawrence, Ojomoh & Muir?

Then look at the last 20 years of Premiership winners. Please tell me how having large numbers of England players on their books hampered the trophy winning ambitions of firstt Wasps, then Leicester, then Saracens - even Exeter?

PG

Cracking game for the neutral.
Feel for Russell. A very bad mistake but some players have an "always try and win" rather than "mitigate a loss" mindset and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Looking forward to watching it again.

Quote:

OldMarovian
Cracking game for the neutral.
Feel for Russell. A very bad mistake but some players have an "always try and win" rather than "mitigate a loss" mindset and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Looking forward to watching it again.

The gamble lost us a point but could have earned 3 so I’m fine with him trying it, wouldn’t have been happy with kicking it out to bank the lbp

Defence was shocking but we were really absent of anybody trying to slow the ball down, particularly in the first half. GJ and Reid unfortunately didn't influence much.

Seeing what looked like a good team on paper underperform in let phases had a certain retro feel.

Just watched the game. I'm not really sure what I have just witnessed. Rugby as basketball, perhaps. We didn't seem to play especially badly but Briz just destroyed our defence for 30 minutes. Then when we actually concentrated, we destroyed theirs for 30 minutes, instead. And then, when we could have put the game away, we revert to making bad decisions. I don't mean Finn in this case - we pay him to make those calls and they're not always going to come off, but the set-up for the tapped penalties, for instance, looked positively amateurish. We can chalk it up to experience but, while we have that side to our game, we are not going to be champions of anything. On the upside, that win will keep Pat Lam in his job. On the downside, it might have cost us a top 4 place.

My MotM - Archie Griffin. Looked totally at home at this level.

A word for the ref. I thought Tempest was excellent. He got right everything is was possible to get right and his judgement calls (ie calls against us) were perfectly reasonable, if (by definition) wrong.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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P G Tips

Quote:

OutsideBath

Simple solution in the future for me is to reduce the number of England players in the squad then this sort of thing won’t happen.

So how will that work?
Do you really think we would make the top 3rd of the table without Obano, Stuart, Ewels, Underhill, Spencer, Lawrence, Ojomoh & Muir?

PG

When their contracts are up replace them with Saffers who would be available nearly all the time and it could work.

Losing all our England players cost us the win today and possibly the chance of top 2.

I’m probably alone in this forum by not caring that much what England do, but really want to see a trophy winning Bath.

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9215

Quote:

OldMarovian
Cracking game for the neutral.
Feel for Russell. A very bad mistake but some players have an "always try and win" rather than "mitigate a loss" mindset and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Looking forward to watching it again.

The gamble lost us a point but could have earned 3 so I’m fine with him trying it, wouldn’t have been happy with kicking it out to bank the lbp

I take the opposite view sacrificing an extra 1 point in the bag to possibly get a winning extra 4 points was well worth the gamble.

So are these the same South Africans that shouldn’t be allowed as they are not part of Europe then OB?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

CoochieCoo

Quote:

9215

Quote:

OldMarovian
Cracking game for the neutral.
Feel for Russell. A very bad mistake but some players have an "always try and win" rather than "mitigate a loss" mindset and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Looking forward to watching it again.

The gamble lost us a point but could have earned 3 so I’m fine with him trying it, wouldn’t have been happy with kicking it out to bank the lbp

I take the opposite view sacrificing an extra 1 point in the bag to possibly get a winning extra 4 points was well worth the gamble.

I think that’s the same view!

Quote:

9215

Quote:

CoochieCoo

Quote:

9215

Quote:

OldMarovian
Cracking game for the neutral.
Feel for Russell. A very bad mistake but some players have an "always try and win" rather than "mitigate a loss" mindset and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Looking forward to watching it again.

The gamble lost us a point but could have earned 3 so I’m fine with him trying it, wouldn’t have been happy with kicking it out to bank the lbp

I take the opposite view sacrificing an extra 1 point in the bag to possibly get a winning extra 4 points was well worth the gamble.

I think that’s the same view!

Apologies it is!

I don’t know if we can say we have progressed greatly compared to our nearest neighbours. We won by a single point at home with a full complement of players & we lost to them by 13 points away with both teams denuded of players. We’ve won more than we’ve lost but our performances have been quite patchy. We could end up anywhere comethe end of the season but at least have been entertaining.

Quote:

shipwrecked
So are these the same South Africans that shouldn’t be allowed as they are not part of Europe then OB?

I think I’ve been clear that SA teams aren’t welcome and aren’t part of Europe. The individuals are more than welcome and the more the merrier.

BH as the season has progressed Bath have improved greatly so I think we have progressed compared to our neighbours. There’s no way a full strength Bath loses to the current Bristol team.

Quote:

OutsideBath
BH as the season has progressed Bath have improved greatly so I think we have progressed compared to our neighbours. There’s no way a full strength Bath loses to the current Bristol team.

We have to bear in mind that Bristol were not at full strength either. We can rest assured that that question will be answered based on how we perform in our remaining fixtures, none of which, I believe, are easy. I really hope your estimate is right.

Had to go for a long walk to calm down after that game.

I have become accustomed to us defending, being physical and not doing loads of really stupid, suicidal , undisciplined things.

Yesterday shocked me. Lots of reasons for it but they are excuses really- the league table doesn't caveat a 6 day turnaround and cancelled flight, or 5 call ups and then 3 more late call ups.

Hats off to reid who always seems to be excellent no matter the circumstances and to archie griffin who was great off the bench. That's it from me for the positives (tho no bad injuries again that I saw).

One selection gripe- looked like Richards was a travelling reserve. No idea in a game like that what a athletic, very quick, v physical, big lump who made a big impact off the bench vs leic could offer....

Rest and reset now- 6 massive games now. Need 4 wins maybe to make top 4 (possibly sneak top 2 with that?)?

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9215

Quote:

OldMarovian
Cracking game for the neutral.
Feel for Russell. A very bad mistake but some players have an "always try and win" rather than "mitigate a loss" mindset and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Looking forward to watching it again.

The gamble lost us a point but could have earned 3 so I’m fine with him trying it, wouldn’t have been happy with kicking it out to bank the lbp

No major issue with it.

Once we had lost 8 players I did think 2 match points would be a v v good result in the circumstances so frustrating we had that and lost it but ambition is good.

I just personally feel that once we'd had about 5 bites at going 90 yds and it wasn't working then maybe cut our losses and bag the 2 pts. Just with the league being so tight it feels 1 point could mean you lose out on top 4 or top 2 come the final day of regular season

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OutsideBath

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P G Tips

Quote:

OutsideBath

Simple solution in the future for me is to reduce the number of England players in the squad then this sort of thing won’t happen.

So how will that work?
Do you really think we would make the top 3rd of the table without Obano, Stuart, Ewels, Underhill, Spencer, Lawrence, Ojomoh & Muir?

PG

When their contracts are up replace them with Saffers who would be available nearly all the time and it could work.

Losing all our England players cost us the win today and possibly the chance of top 2.

I’m probably alone in this forum by not caring that much what England do, but really want to see a trophy winning Bath.

I think the rules on foreigners change after this season the Kolpek and Bosman rule I believe is no longer valid after this season, so SA players and EU and Fijians etc will be foreigners. I think that the new rule will be 15 of the 23 of a match day squad have to be EQP.

Officiating was a bit of a weird one.

No real howlers but felt every marginal call didn't go our way which I guess is just the way it goes.

Commentators (whether right or wrong) thought coetzee yellow was a touch harsh, took forever to give bris a yellow, luatua offside was given as a pen so assume they think Randall was stopping dunn from 2 yds. They felt tdt scored & coetzee scored but question asked dictated decisions.

All very odd. Just so much going on all the way through the game- felt tempest and Rose were never quite on the same wavelength.

It's all irrelevant, as I say no howlers, no major complaints from me.... they got lots right...schreuder yellow, cam pen, bris cardings. if you concede 8 tries to a bottom half team you deserve to lose.

bris are seriously brittle- played lots of lovely stuff but zero mental toughness. We couldn't have gifted them the game more times and it took til the last play to secure it. Hats off to them for their attacking rugby, bet it was serious fun for their fans and the neutrals. May give them a shot in the arm- hopefully beat some more teams in the mix for top 4!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:28:08:59:23 by charlieboa.

Agree charlie, no howlers and I can see how they came to most decisions, which given the subjective nature of every single decision in rugby, isn’t a bad showing! I also think Tempest has improved his communication with the players.

Only gripe for me, because it was such a pivotal moment, was the pen against Stooke for not rolling away when we were 6 behind and they had 13. Not Stooke’s fault… can’t see what else he can do… but can see why it might be a pen… but just SO infuriating given the game situation! A good defensive set there and we win the game I reckon and the conversation this morning is a sensational win by our B team away from home in a local derby. Fine margins…

Still can’t stand the 15 phases of burrowing, mind!

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Stooke one was tight call. Was offside but the ball was there and available and not slowed up but as with most 9s Randall milked it.

One that annoyed me was jvr after 5 mins when he was tackled, released ball, we counterrucked and he just got the ball again and placed it further back whilst still lying on the floor. Led to their first try.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:28:09:31:47 by charlieboa.

Quote:

joethefanatic
A word for the ref. I thought Tempest was excellent. He got right everything is was possible to get right and his judgement calls (ie calls against us) were perfectly reasonable, if (by definition) wrong.

This is what irritated me. I'd have no problem with reffing calls today IF they were conducted in the same manner by all refs every week. But they're not. It's just so infuriatingly inconsistent.

Can someone explain how - despite losing 3 teams last year - we are still in this position of not having players available for league games? Yes I know, squad game, Sarries/Tigers managed it etc etc, but it's a one-off this year. Is it an RFU/PRL cock up or was it always set to be like this?

Weird to feel disappointed at losing after being 33-15 down at HT.

We didn't lose because of the Finn cross kick, we lost because I'd the first half defending.

I think the bit that annoyed me the most was the call up of players midweek. So disruptive.

Stooke had clearly rolled to make the ball available, but the Stooke was between Tempest and the ball.

The lack of consistency during the game is really annoying - two clear incidents:
Schreuder's yellow for deliberate knock on vs no sanction for Ibbotye's one.

No penalty try and yellow for Luatua for being offside, entering the ruck ffrom the side and then being the tackler who prevented Dunn scoring vs our penalty try for the tackler being offside.

I sort of get the TdT try not being allowed, but the evidence was there that it had been.

Tempest wasn't terrible, but he was inconsistent and pretty much all his big calls went against Bath.

That said, had we had a defence in the first half we would have won, but with half those big calls going our way instead of none, we would also have won.

And when was the last time a 22m drop out went dead for a scrum back?

One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

I remember thinking that but no one seemed to protest too much.
I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

That was the most frustrating one for me and completely baffling. He could clearly see if was well short but still held up. When in fact that should be not rolling and yellow card. Both of Coetzee calls were wrong he wasn’t held in the tackle and don’t think it was a yellow at all.

Positives for me is still scoring 44 points
Some lovely created tries seems to be a real understanding between Finn/Cam/TDG/Cokansiga
Reid as always is just everywhere

Defence just wasn’t good enough and I do feel it is just a blip, James Williams just ran straight through and I don’t think we’ve seen that all season.

I thought we looked a much better side with TCS his passing was much better. I really do not see how we win games with Schreuder at 9. Lineout a massive issue Dunn seems to be in a big rut throwing.

This isn’t season over or Top 4 over like some say it is. Full strength (which is what it will be every game after sale) we can beat any side in Europe.

Quote:

hasta
We didn't lose because of the Finn cross kick, we lost because I'd the first half defending.

This.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

To add to this we have a good run in comparatively

We’ve got
Sale (H)
Quins (A)
Exeter (A) (EUROPE)
Exeter (A)
Sarries (H)
Falcons (A)
Saints (H)

Sale will be tough but I expect a win
We should beat Quins
Both Exeter games I expect wins they are picking up lots of injuries.
Saracens at home is the big one will be very close
Falcons rotate and win
Saints I imagine will have a Sarries approach to the game and rotate as they are set for top spot.

Prem I expect - 4 wins minimum which gets us through then the 5th would get us a home semi

Quote:

HK890

I thought we looked a much better side with TCS his passing was much better. I really do not see how we win games with Schreuder at 9. Lineout a massive issue Dunn seems to be in a big rut throwing.
.

Also this. Annett should start, and I would hope that TCS now leapfrogs Schreiber as second choice.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

The defence has been decent so far this season so what on earth happened yesterday? How on earth can a team leak 8 tries to a team like Bristol?

Because they played fast off loading rugby and we looked like we were still in the changing room and flat footede

Quote:

hasta
We didn't lose because of the Finn cross kick, we lost because I'd the first half defending.

Absolutely true but you did sacrifice a point in the last play of the game. Re my earlier call not saying it was wrong but I'm sure if a missing point is an issue come the end of the season lots of Bath supporters will be calling out various "we woz robbed by the ref" calls and few, if any, will mention that one. Btw I would (will?) be totally the same re Sarries!

I watched the game again and it was bonkers. I mean there must be passionate SR supporters in the SH watching that thinking "What was that??!" When people ask for "Bazball" in rugby you've just seen it.

That said I think there's a bit too much doom and gloom.
You were missing quite a lot of important players including midweek disruption and you're still well placed in the table and have a largely uninjured squad a good rest period and a decent run-in.
I'd be very surprised if you aren't top 4.

If we miss out on the playoffs it'll be the last second loss at home to Tigers on account of dropping the ball, not failing to come back in this frankly insane game.

We looked exhausted and couldn't slow down their ball. We also absolutely played into their hands. It was frustrating. It's not the end of the world.

Quote:

OldMarovian
That said I think there's a bit too much doom and gloom.
You were missing quite a lot of important players including midweek disruption and you're still well placed in the table and have a largely uninjured squad a good rest period and a decent run-in.
I'd be very surprised if you aren't top 4.

We may or may not finish top 4 as a result of yesterday, however that’s not the real issue. Top 2 is essential otherwise we’ll just extend the season by a week.

That said it’s nice for the season to matter into the first week of April and not be done by January.

The Stooke pen really annoyed me. He'd made an effort to get out of the way despite being boxed in by Bristol, the ball was available and Tempest had a very good view of it. Other refs seem to be doing the sensible thing and playing on in that situation.

Trying to be objective this morning.

I suspect but don't know of course that many of the players having had their week disrupted by the delayed return from Toulouse were 'out of sorts' and some were definitely looking semi knackered mentally as well as physically. Now we have several of them having been 'called up' for 6 N.

Hate hate hate loosing to the current Bristol (Bears fgs) but they did hava a canny game plan and of course were not hung over. Just one match to put behind us all and move on. Long way to go this season. I refuse unlike some to pick out individual players - its a team game after all, with a whole department of professsional highly paid coaching/physical/psychological experts backing them up

p.s. I left to take the dog out for a walk just before half time.

No need to be downbeat. 3rd in the league with 6 to go.
Last year's last 6 matches saw us take a TBP minimum from every game, winning the last 4 for a maximum 20 points.

There is every reason to hope we can do something similar-although the Saints home match will be a real test.

The key will be how much we learn from yesterday and how well we apply the lessons.

PG

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

I remember thinking that but no one seemed to protest too much.
I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.

Agreed!

That should involve having richards there to do it rather than scrappy do (cloete) coming on to be solely used to try and plunder his way over from 5 yds against a well set defence on slow ball of people who are much taller and bigger.

So dim in so many ways yest.

Agree TCS gave us good tempo and service when he came on.

Quote:

Barfboy
Can someone explain how - despite losing 3 teams last year - we are still in this position of not having players available for league games?

Easy.
3 teams gone means 6 weekends freed up.
6N takes 7 weeks, with an extra 1 for the pre-tourney training camp that the RFU pays handsomly to secure player release.

8 is a bigger number than 6.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:28:11:28:46 by Quel Carreleur.

At the end of the day we got a point from this fixture - which means that bar Leicester away we have secured a point from every game - as disappointing as it was yesterday other results bar Saints went are way if Gloucester can beat Sale today and deny them a point the table won't change - it is very claustrophobic and it will be a shoot out and very exciting post 6 Nations as to who ends up where. I think I am correct in saying we have Sale, Sarries and Saints at home and Quins, Chiefs and Newcastle away. Some tough trips but also some tough home games.

We have just got to hope that our International players come through the 6 Nations without injury and Ted Hill returns and shows the quality player we all know him to be. 6 Nations ultimately could decide the Premiership depending which way lady luck falls in terms of injuries.

At least we are in the mix and if you look at the comments from the players re-signing this week - they all have something in common - they are talking about the building of something special over the next 2 seasons - this season is a bonus I expect JvG and the team did not expect.

I would end by saying I am 100% in the it was worth a go camp in relation to Finn's kick - we need our players to back themselves and try things - I suppose we saw the difference between a Finn Russell and an Owen Farrell - I am sure Farrell would have just kicked the ball dead and settled for 2 BP's - percentage player and superb at it. Russell is a different beast and his brilliance sometimes brings these type of moments - enjoy the ride. For those who want to berate him - just re-watch the pass across the noses of the Bristol players for the Tom DG try - commentators were waxing lyrical about it. That is his class.

If you want someone to really blame - try the RFU who deny the clubs their players in an attempt to try and gain an advantage over the other nations. That is the real shame that both teams could not go out full on loaded - that is what a derby fixture is all about IMHO. Finally yesterday confirmed my opinion of just how good a player Bernard Janse Van Rensberg really is.

Quote:

Quel Carreleur

Quote:

Barfboy
Can someone explain how - despite losing 3 teams last year - we are still in this position of not having players available for league games?

Easy.
3 teams gone means 6 weekends freed up.
6N takes 7 weeks, with an extra 1 for the pre-tourney training camp that the RFU pays handsomly to secure player release.

8 is a bigger number than 6.

Thanks and understood but do you not think - now the league has been unintentionally slimmed down - that there wasn't a way of working it so the league was prioritised and we avoided this situation?

Could we not have another enforced rest week or two for the internationals, which gives the clubs the chance to pick and choose when players are rested instead of losing 8 in one hit (and on a now one-off basis)?

Quote:

Barfboy
Thanks and understood but do you not think - now the league has been unintentionally slimmed down - that there wasn't a way of working it so the league was prioritised and we avoided this situation?

Isn't that asking for 6 to be a bigger number than 8?
Or did you prefer it before the league was slimmed down, and we lost the players for 7 matches rather than 1?

Quote:

Barfboy
Could we not have another enforced rest week or two for the internationals, which gives the clubs the chance to pick and choose when players are rested instead of losing 8 in one hit (and on a now one-off basis)?

Clubs didn't want EPS players to all be given the same weeks off - so it was done by windows (so 1 rest week between AI and 6N and 1 rest week between 6N and end of season.
We didn't lose them for a rest week this weekend, we lost them for a training camp.
Tough to hold a training camp if you're only allowed some of the players. I guess it COULD be worked out - and it would involve a lot less money from the RFU to the clubs as they wouldn't be getting the access they wanted and negotiated for.

Going forward, there will be a bit more flexibility, as there won't be another RWC for the next 3 years; and the PRC can be tinkered with; so maybe the season could start a week earlier, and play the PRC during the AI and 6N windows (including training weeks) rather than as a glorified pre-season.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:28:12:43:55 by Quel Carreleur.

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

I remember thinking that but no one seemed to protest too much.
I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.

Plus knowing when to get it out to the backs to walk it in. So much space out wide.

J

Quote:

ChippenhamRoman

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

I remember thinking that but no one seemed to protest too much.
I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.

Plus knowing when to get it out to the backs to walk it in. So much space out wide.

J

Agree CR, it doesn't even have to go that wide just 15m where there are gaps to attack.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

I remember thinking that but no one seemed to protest too much.
I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.

It’s been a problem since the start of the season so doubt it will be fixed in 6 weeks, especially with most of the first team on 6N duty.

Quote:

Quel Carreleur

Quote:

Barfboy
Can someone explain how - despite losing 3 teams last year - we are still in this position of not having players available for league games?

Easy.
3 teams gone means 6 weekends freed up.
6N takes 7 weeks, with an extra 1 for the pre-tourney training camp that the RFU pays handsomly to secure player release.

8 is a bigger number than 6.

You do know we can just extend the season by a couple of weeks?

It’s a RWC season, the Prem and the RFU can make stuff up on the hoof.

J

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD

Quote:

ChippenhamRoman

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

charlieboa
One other query- we got a held up over the line when it looked like we were about 2 yds short? Or did I mis-see that/ misremember it?

I remember thinking that but no one seemed to protest too much.
I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.

Plus knowing when to get it out to the backs to walk it in. So much space out wide.

J

I really thought Finn was our cure to the horrendous disease of mindless pick and drive. Is his mind elsewhere?

[quote Optimist]

I think 6 weeks of working on better 5 yd drills is in order.[/quote]

Plus knowing when to get it out to the backs to walk it in. So much space out wide.

J[/quote]

I really thought Finn was our cure to the horrendous disease of mindless pick and drive. Is his mind elsewhere?[/quote]

+ 1

Quote:

Optimist
I really thought Finn was our cure to the horrendous disease of mindless pick and drive. Is his mind elsewhere?

A] It depends on the game plan
B] In my experiences, forwards develop selective deafness within 5m of the try line, and the SH would have to actively wrestle the ball of them - which rarely ends well for the SH.

I absolutely agree that we need to work on this - driving mindlessly for the line hasn't been an effective strategy since they changed to laws explicitly to neuter it, and switch from 5m scrum, to goal-line drop out.

IMO, this mini-preseason should be used to tinker with the game plan, so that we approach the run-in with a few surprises for opponents, and correct things that aren't working as we'd hoped 6 months ago.
Line-out and 5m from the try line being the stand-outs for me personally.

And yes, I know that's tough when we'll be absent so many starters, but I'd expect our internationals to be able to pick tactical things up pretty quickly.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:01:29:09:49:32 by Quel Carreleur.

Pick and go means you often bypass 9 and 10. It will be a part of a training routine will it not?


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Ali1969

I am 100% in the it was worth a go camp in relation to Finn's kick - we need our players to back themselves and try things - I suppose we saw the difference between a Finn Russell and an Owen Farrell - I am sure Farrell would have just kicked the ball dead and settled for 2 BP's - percentage player and superb at it. Russell is a different beast and his brilliance sometimes brings these type of moments - enjoy the ride. For those who want to berate him - just re-watch the pass across the noses of the Bristol players for the Tom DG try - commentators were waxing lyrical about it. That is his class.

Totally on board with this

It wasn't far from being a superb play that would have given us a great attack that quite possibly could have secured all 5 points

Love him for it and forgive him for the kick being a metre short

Quote:

Quel Carreleur

Quote:

Barfboy
Thanks and understood but do you not think - now the league has been unintentionally slimmed down - that there wasn't a way of working it so the league was prioritised and we avoided this situation?

Isn't that asking for 6 to be a bigger number than 8?
Or did you prefer it before the league was slimmed down, and we lost the players for 7 matches rather than 1?

Quote:

Barfboy
Could we not have another enforced rest week or two for the internationals, which gives the clubs the chance to pick and choose when players are rested instead of losing 8 in one hit (and on a now one-off basis)?

Clubs didn't want EPS players to all be given the same weeks off - so it was done by windows (so 1 rest week between AI and 6N and 1 rest week between 6N and end of season.
We didn't lose them for a rest week this weekend, we lost them for a training camp.
Tough to hold a training camp if you're only allowed some of the players. I guess it COULD be worked out - and it would involve a lot less money from the RFU to the clubs as they wouldn't be getting the access they wanted and negotiated for.

Going forward, there will be a bit more flexibility, as there won't be another RWC for the next 3 years; and the PRC can be tinkered with; so maybe the season could start a week earlier, and play the PRC during the AI and 6N windows (including training weeks) rather than as a glorified pre-season.

I don't think the condescension was necessary. Nowhere did I say this week was a rest week, I'm simply making suggestions so clubs don't lose England internationals en masse anymore.

I was going to say revising PRC format (as you mentioned) might be way to go, but thought I'd get shot down because it's predominantly a competition for young/squad players these days. Someone else has suggested extending the season by a week or two, which doesn't seem outrageous.

Clubs didn't want EPS players to all be given the same week off...but the outcome was still the same this weekend? It wasn't a rest week, but all clubs were without their England players.

Point is - and always was - that if we are now down to losing players for only one game a season, could something be done so that the problem is eradicated.

Quote:

Barfboy
Point is - and always was - that if we are now down to losing players for only one game a season, could something be done so that the problem is eradicated.

I guess that this season was particularly troublesome given the RWC at the start meaning that the little cup was pushed there. I would guess that next season the Prem games will be at the normal times so the little cup can go back to being in the 6N again?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

It has improved over previous seasons massively already.
The reality is that there will always be a "cost" to supplying EQP Internationals until/unless we bring in the Irish system that effectively rests the majority of their CCd players through the club season and I think that's the opposite of what most club supporters want?
Right now the players who were at the RWC had a few weeks off at the start of the season then straight in. Now they will be with England playing International level intensity games, then get a week's rest during one of the 6 remaining club games of the season.
Honestly it's crazy how much rugby we put them through.
Not sure what the solution is? But if this is the dawning if a new age it will be increasingly Saints, Quins and Baths problem.

I didn't really know where to post it but thought the Bath supporters might enjoy the following from Neil Squires on Rugbypass re Finn Russell:

"It is one of the great joys of rugby – any sport actually – to watch Russell run through his illusionist’s repertoire.
The chameleon vision, the blurring sleight of hand and the array of kicking options combines for a spellbinding act. Most importantly of all, he has the conviction to keep on backing himself even when the saw-the-lady-in-half trick ends up in a trip to A and E"

Thanks OM, brilliant description of the Finnballwizard.

Quote:

OldMarovian
I didn't really know where to post it but thought the Bath supporters might enjoy the following from Neil Squires on Rugbypass re Finn Russell:
"It is one of the great joys of rugby – any sport actually – to watch Russell run through his illusionist’s repertoire.
The chameleon vision, the blurring sleight of hand and the array of kicking options combines for a spellbinding act. Most importantly of all, he has the conviction to keep on backing himself even when the saw-the-lady-in-half trick ends up in a trip to A and E"

That's exactly me, thanks OM

And Francis, if that is an original then please take a bow. Finnball Wizard. Love it

No Gaz, I didn't come up with it but I think it was someone on this Forum and it was his wife, if I remember correctly. I claim no credit for what is a brilliant nickname.