A “UNITED” COLOURFUL RETURN TO EUROPE- Bennetton v Bath

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:20:08:38:32 by CoochieCoo.

Will Stuart will have to be rested for this game.
Griffin - shoulder injury + Sela injured
So TDT will almost certainly be at 3

Obano back in training so could see a bench appearance. If not then Cordwell I imagine will be the called upon man for the bench. Van Wyk starting either way I would imagine.

I imagine we will see Molony get a start for Roux. Ewels still captain.

Backrow interesting still no Underhill or Barbeary (Confirmed)
- Reid Jaco and Pepper currently look like the 3 most inform combo. But Hill gives that extra balance. + Jaco is the impact king.

Beno and Russell will not feature. Injury and holiday respectively. Schreuder and Bailey to go from the off. Exciting for both. Bailey espcially, big game.

Centres are an interesting one. Lawrence back after a rest - Cam/Butt/Ojomoh all deserving of the 12 shirt for differint reasons. Imagine one of Max or Cam will be on the bench for 10 cover.

TDG a lock. Possibly could see Grace in for Joe - change things up.

My 23

1. Van Wyk
2. Annett
3. TDT
4. Ewels
5. Molony
6. Reid
7. Pepper
8. Jaco
9. Schreuder
10. Bailey
11. Muir
12. Ojomoh
13. Lawrence
14. Grace
15. TDG

16. Dunn
17. Obano
18. Verden
19. Richards
20. Hill
21. TCS
22. Redpath
23. Bayliss

Been lots of discussion around Joe C - it’s a tough one. Comments made that he’s a passenger. Personally I believe he’s a streaky player - last season we saw him get 11 tries from December to March. But nothing outside of those. Always see comments about him not using his size/should come infield, however if that was what he was asked to be in the team for I’m sure he would be doing it.

We don’t have a finisher like him - and I feel that if he’s given the platform he will finish a good amount of chances. I can’t remember a good/half chance that he should have converted recently.

HK what is Ben Spencer's injury?

Quote:

Bath Supporter Jack
HK what is Ben Spencer's injury?

Hamstring strain - light grade so not a long term injury at all but imagine that Benetton will come round to quickly. Maybe a bench appearance vs Saracens. Or just give him a week off then.

Quote:

HK890
Backrow interesting still no Underhill or Barbeary (Confirmed)
- Reid Jaco and Pepper currently look like the 3 most inform combo. But Hill gives that extra balance. + Jaco is the impact king.

Get Bayliss starting please. It's cold but should be a nice dry track for him and he deserves a run out (and the others deserve a rest).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

HK890
Backrow interesting still no Underhill or Barbeary (Confirmed)
- Reid Jaco and Pepper currently look like the 3 most inform combo. But Hill gives that extra balance. + Jaco is the impact king.

Get Bayliss starting please. It's cold but should be a nice dry track for him and he deserves a run out (and the others deserve a rest).

+1 re Bayliss comment

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Benetton are aggressive at the breakdown, we need to make sure we counter that with our team selection.

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

HK890
Backrow interesting still no Underhill or Barbeary (Confirmed)
- Reid Jaco and Pepper currently look like the 3 most inform combo. But Hill gives that extra balance. + Jaco is the impact king.

Get Bayliss starting please. It's cold but should be a nice dry track for him and he deserves a run out (and the others deserve a rest).

Selection wise totally get the call but can’t be rest wise. 2 weeks into this block after a month rest from games for them. Can easily see Bayliss getting some minutes in one of the spots either starting or from the bench.

Thanks Bath Supporter Jack 🇪🇪

Widcombe Garçon

I think there will be a fair bit of rotation this week. A few that need it, some enforced through injuries and a bit of consideration for the short turnaround to Newcastle next week.

Would like to see Annett, Molony, Richards, Bayliss, TCS, Ojomoh and Grace start this one

Benetton certainly not to be underestimated strong pack with Gallo at LHP and strong Backrow. The centre partnership as good as any around in Menochello and Brex - we need to be on our game big time.

I am another hoping Bayliss gets a run out - personally I would go Pepper, Hill and Bayliss at 8 with Reid and Jaco off the bench.

Going to be a really tough match - wonder if Matt Gallagher will be fit and selected to play against his old club?

[quote HK890][quote BathMatt53][quote HK890]
Selection wise totally get the call but can’t be rest wise. 2 weeks into this block after a month rest from games for them.[/quote]

Not just rest for the games that they have played (although La Rochelle would have been brutal for the forwards) but the forthcoming game block.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Rather than rest maybe I should have called it rotate.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Thought Schreuder was v. good last Friday, hope he has a similar game this weekend if selected.

I think the strategy of having a strong bench seems to be working for us, Bayliss and Coetzee have been really impactful in that final quarter.

[quote BathMatt53][quote HK890][quote BathMatt53][quote HK890]
Selection wise totally get the call but can’t be rest wise. 2 weeks into this block after a month rest from games for them.[/quote]

Not just rest for the games that they have played (although La Rochelle would have been brutal for the forwards) but the forthcoming game block.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Rather than rest maybe I should have called it rotate.[/quote]

Fair - I think we are in a blessed position where you can pick a lot of combinations and not argue against it. The other massive benefit of having so many backrowers is you can just pick on form throughout the season. Knowing it will probably all come out even in the end.

For example right now Pepper and Reid are deserving of all the minutes they are getting. Unlikely they will be able to sustain this level all season so at some point Barbeary will find some form and get a run. Same with Bayliss although as said his impact off the bench with the pace injection seems to work really well.

[www.somersetlive.co.uk]

Sounds like quite a different teams then - I see no problem as long as we are able to put out strong teams for Newcastle, Sarries and Saints. With high flying Clermont and Leinster to come I think we are a season too early for the Champs Cup and I am more excited about the Prem this year.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Absolutely agree with that Matt. The 3 Prem games have to be the priority, so im happy for the likes of Spencer, Obano, Underhill not to be risked and for Finn and Lawrence to get their rest.

In an ideal world- Bayliss, TCS, Bailey, Ojomoh and Hennessy play a part in a very good away win this weekend, but like you im not that concerned with our ambitions for the competition. Would like us to put Clermont away at home and then avoid another miserable drubbing away versus Ireland.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Quote:

dr.bath1865
Absolutely agree with that Matt. The 3 Prem games have to be the priority, so im happy for the likes of Spencer, Obano, Underhill not to be risked and for Finn and Lawrence to get their rest.
In an ideal world- Bayliss, TCS, Bailey, Ojomoh and Hennessy play a part in a very good away win this weekend, but like you im not that concerned with our ambitions for the competition. Would like us to put Clermont away at home and then avoid another miserable drubbing away versus Ireland.

If we go with a relatively weak team this weekend and lose we might as well do the same for Clermont/Leinster as we'll already be out. Agree PL has to be a priority, but it would be nice to reach the last 16 in the CC.

I'm honestly feeling increasingly indifferent towards Bath's european campaign.

If we win a few games then I won't complain, but this is possibly our best opportunity to win the league in the professional era, and the last thing we need is to scrape through the champions cup group stages, only to be rewarded with an away trip to Toulouse, Bulls, Glasgow, etc slap bang in the middle of our run in (a bit like Quins last season).

It's a sad state of affairs given the past prestige of the tournament, but I think only a few teams have a realistic chance of winning it and we are not in that group.

I reluctantly agree on deprioritising the Champions Cup at the moment. I wouldn’t be sending an out and out reserve / academy side but if there’s a chance to give some players a rest we should take it to focus on league fixtures.

I half assumed the plan was to save TdT from the trip this week but it sounds like some injuries have conspired against that happening and JvG isn’t about send Kieran Verden to start a European game

Tend to agree on the de-prioritization having reluctanctly conceded that it's completely naive to think we have much more than a puncher's chance in the knockout rounds.

However, very pleased in a perverse way to see that Russell is on holiday. For his sake and for the team's sake Orlando needs to get in the starting line-up and show that there is life without Finn. Even better would be to see him paired with TC-S - what a motivation that would be for the pair of them.

I'd hope we will win. But if we lose, then it's pretty much confirmation that we don't have the depth for this competition anyway, so more to be gained than lost either way.

I think it is is the perfect opportunity to bring through some of the less played but still highly talented players.

However given I am going to Treviso I would still like to see A WIN!!!

Quote:

Bath Supporter Jack
I think it is is the perfect opportunity to bring through some of the less played but still highly talented players.
However given I am going to Treviso I would still like to see A WIN!!!

Agree BSJ, want to see a strong team as I’ll be there and also want to see a win.

I know JvG really loves the European cup and wants a trophy from it but I wonder if the fondness relates to the old format - fans seem to be struggling to get behind this version. I agree it is a great opportunity for rotation and development.

Thanks for the preview BFJ - I hope they get the win for you and that the whole family enjoy the time together. Do you then have to do it again for Christmas?!

I see that Racing have made 11 changes for their trip to Sale. Some of the French teams not taking away games seriously doesn't help the comp (having just accepted that Bath may do the same of course!)

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

That's still a very strong team for Racing Matt though the bench isn't the best:

15 Tristan Tedder, -
14 Henry Arundell, -
13 Sam James, -
12 Henry Chavancy, -
11 Max Spring, -
10 Dan Lancaster, -
9 Nolann Le Garrec, -
1 Guram Gogichashvili, -
2 Camille Chat, -
3 Lucio Sordoni, -
4 Junior Kpoku, -
5 Will Rowlands, -
6 Cameron Woki, -
7 Maxime Baudonne, -
8 Hacjivah Dayimani, -
REPLACEMENTS
16 Diego Escobar, -
17 Lino Julien, -
18 Gia Kharaishvili, -
19 Fabien Sanconnie, -
20 Ibrahim Diallo, -
21 Clovis Le Bail, -
22 Antoine Gibert, -
23 Wame Naituvi, -


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

BathMatt53
I see that Racing have made 11 changes for their trip to Sale. Some of the French teams not taking away games seriously doesn't help the comp (having just accepted that Bath may do the same of course!)

Difference is Matt that Racing won their home game, we do not have the luxury of not playing the best available players if we want to make the last 16.

If Bath have no interest in making the last 16 the club should make it clear, not just put out a weak team.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:13:10:06:28 by OutsideBath.

Junior Kpoku and Will Rowlands make a strong combination at lock. the former is featured in a BBC article giving clues about his international intentions.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Don’t think it’ll be a weak team- and of course we go with the intention of winning the game (that’s like the thing when people say we’re complacent- pro rugby players never are and they always play to win).

It’ll be our strongest team… given the circumstances, which include internationals needing a rest, we’ve 50/50 injury calls, and we’re likely prioritising the Prem. Doesn’t mean we’re sending the under 19s or throwing in the towel- it’s a simple allocation of resources, which for Prem clubs means a salary cap (double in France) and the fact you have to play your best XV every week in the Prem (not the same in Ireland).

Wonder if we might see the likes of TDT, Spencer, Lawrence and Underhill on the bench? Doubt we’ll blow Benetton away so giving young lads 60 minutes then bring on experience to get us over the line.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Team Up:

Bath Rugby: 1 Francois van Wyk, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Vilikesa Sela, 4 Ewan Richards, 5 Ross Molony, 6 Josh Bayliss, 7 Ethan Staddon, 8 Miles Reid ©, 9 Louis Schreuder, 10 Orlando Bailey, 11 Ruaridh McConnochie, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Regan Grace, 15 Tom de Glanville

Replacements: 16 Kepu Tuipulotu, 17 Arthur Cordwell, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Ted Hill, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Louie Hennessey, 23 Jaco Coetzee

Heavily rotated, but you know what? I really like it.

TdT, Roux, Hill, Coetzee is still great impact and experience from the bench

I do too hasta.

Initial reaction was -"a little surprised". Then I thought "why on earth not?"

If you plan to "use your squad", a go-for-it approach is a great statement of confidence. Anyway, the likes of Annett, Molony, Bayliss & Ojomoh fully deserve starts and I am excited at the prospect of Sela, Grace, Tuipolotu & Hennessy.

Come on Bath!


PG

So that is the reason why Kepu wasn't playing in the BUCS game. I did wonder. Plenty of exciting players but its nowhere near our best side. Regan Grace, Billy Sela and Ethan Staddon start and Ewan Richards gets a game as well, I fancy him to do well. Cracking bench as well.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Nice to look at such a heavily rotated team and think that we should still win. All the players brought in are players we want to get more game time so I am positive about this line-up.

Quote:

P G Tips
the likes of Annett, Molony, Bayliss & Ojomoh fully deserve starts

Exactly PG, those may be rotations but all hugely experienced and arguably not much of a step down in quality (if at all).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Not overly confident having seen the Benetton team but very excited to see how the young guns go

Like the mixture of experience and young talent - am concerned given the quality of Benetton - however if you have a squad you have to trust and use it to protect other players.

At the end of the day we are still developing and the Premiership I am sure is the main target - as much as the European Cup is superb and a real bench mark test - realistically there are only 4 or 5 teams in the mix to win it : Toulouse, Leinster, La Rochelle, Bordeaux-Beagles & The Sharks (and only if they really put everything into and play their best team).

Quite surprised by that selection tbh, the big cup clearly not a priority this season but squad development clearly is. A real test for those chosen but I can't see us winning on Sunday now. Will be watching Premier Sports and hoping for the best...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

Never In Doubt
Nice to look at such a heavily rotated team and think that we should still win. All the players brought in are players we want to get more game time so I am positive about this line-up.

I’m not so sure, this feels like one rotation too many. Hope I am wrong. Fly out tomorrow at an ungodly hour. Would hate for it to be a Prem Cup game. Benetton will be targeting this game. I fear banana skin written all over it.

We were joking that we’ve been going to the French away games since 2018. With a terrible record.

01/2019 - Toulouse L
12/2019 - Clermont L
12/2022 - Toulon L
01/2024 - Toulouse L
12/2024 - Benetton ?

J

What a statement it would be if we won the game though Ali, we have a good chance of doing that in my opinion.
It also makes it clear that JvG is targeting the Prem.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Are others still receiving an email from the club with the team announcement this season? I don’t seem to have had any.

Me too hasta! I really like what JvG is building/has built and the planned rotations. No point bringing youth into the squad and expecting them to gain experience by osmosis

I love this 23 personally.

Is it strong enough to win- no idea, if we are in at 50 then maybe.

Is it great use and development of the squad placing faith in them like this- 100%.

Hopefully if they do well some of the more fringe players to date will get some more chances in the coming week.

This is a brutal block of fixtures.

Fun XXIII. As charlie says, a brutal run of games, so JvG has faced some tough decisions, that don't have perfect solutions, about priorities and the potential to get wins with quite a few players being deemed unavailable. His selection feels pretty near spot on to me- and it will be really great if we can get any sort of win, especially as it will show how Landy can manage a big game like on his own now.

Interestingly, it looks to me like the sort of team sheet we'd see on a much more regular basis a few seasons back, given how much thinner our squad was and our enormous injury count. The fact that that squad, packed full still of exciting prospects and internationals, is a 2nd/3rd XV is testament to the revamp of our S&C and medical as much as anything else (Bruce's millions notwithstanding...).

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Disappointingly weak team selection, just proves we have given up on the CC after one game.

Benetton have a strong pack so that selection isn’t going to get parity. Didn’t like the idea of Bailey running the show anyway, but it’s going to be a nightmare for him now.

At least it’s supposed to be sunny here and got the bonus of visiting Venice again.

It would have been totally unrealistic to suggest we would target this competition though wouldn't it OB. I'm happy to see our youngsters get developed in a serious game whist leaving our strongest team to rest and be able to throw themselves into getting into the top 4 and even the final.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
It would have been totally unrealistic to suggest we would target this competition though wouldn't it OB. I'm happy to see our youngsters get developed in a serious game whist leaving our strongest team to rest and be able to throw themselves into getting into the top 4 and even the final.

Agree SW, but we should at least target the last 16. That team selection has given up on that.

Having travelled it’s very disappointing to see such a team selection, but I guess staying and visiting Venice offsets that disappointment.

There is also a place in the Challenge Cup up for grabs if we don’t reach the final 16, so even if we can’t compete for winning the Big Cup yet we could give the little cup a good crack! I would have thought a decent win on Sunday would have given up a decent chance.

Quote:

OutsideBath
Having travelled it’s very disappointing to see such a team selection, but I guess staying and visiting Venice offsets that disappointment.

Venice? You do realise I hope they moved the game to Rome OB.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked

Quote:

OutsideBath
Having travelled it’s very disappointing to see such a team selection, but I guess staying and visiting Venice offsets that disappointment.

Venice? You do realise I hope they moved the game to Rome OB.

Very good SW.. 😁👏



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:13:17:13:03 by OutsideBath.

Being concerned about the rising injury list and the prospect of seeing a much weakened squad I decided against going to Treviso but I have to say this is still a pretty good team selection. 17 of that squad are established first teamers and the other 6, Carr-Smith, Grace, Staddon, Richards. Sela, Cordwell and Kepu are all players popular with Bath fans and ones we are hoping can continue their journey with JVG and establishing themselves in the near future. Some criticism of the selection is to be expected and yes, the odds are against a Bath win. now I wish I was going, have always preferred Venice in the winter

I remain excited!!

Agree with OB that is a strong Benetton side (particularly the pack) so whilst great to blood youngsters surprised that we haven`t at least targeted this game as a "must win" with a slightly stronger starting 15.. No chance of beating Leinster away so that game would be my call to mix and match more giving us every chance of 2 x victories and progression? I fear our strong bench will have a big catch up to face but hope I am proved wrong!

Matt Gallagher not in the 23 to hurt us. Must be very disappointing for him. Guess he'll have had a part to play with his knowledge.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

shipwrecked
It would have been totally unrealistic to suggest we would target this competition though wouldn't it OB. I'm happy to see our youngsters get developed in a serious game whist leaving our strongest team to rest and be able to throw themselves into getting into the top 4 and even the final.

Agree SW, but we should at least target the last 16. That team selection has given up on that.

Having travelled it’s very disappointing to see such a team selection, but I guess staying and visiting Venice offsets that disappointment.

With this new format one win and some bonus points can be enough for the next round so we’re hardly punting qualification entirely.

Having said that if we get through and it’s Toulouse or Leinster away as would be quite likely is that helpful to our league ambitions?

I don’t think there’s a perfect answer to any of this by the way

Losing at home to La Rochelle was unexpected tbh and must not have changed the campaign plan given the selection. Still all to play for but it just feels a bit harder now...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

theredseat

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

shipwrecked
It would have been totally unrealistic to suggest we would target this competition though wouldn't it OB. I'm happy to see our youngsters get developed in a serious game whist leaving our strongest team to rest and be able to throw themselves into getting into the top 4 and even the final.

Agree SW, but we should at least target the last 16. That team selection has given up on that.

Having travelled it’s very disappointing to see such a team selection, but I guess staying and visiting Venice offsets that disappointment.

With this new format one win and some bonus points can be enough for the next round so we’re hardly punting qualification entirely.

Having said that if we get through and it’s Toulouse or Leinster away as would be quite likely is that helpful to our league ambitions?

I think it's one of the worst things about the format but you do only have to win one game (and pick up some BPs) to make the next round. We've got another French side visiting...

Once you're in the knockout then you're going to come up against those teams at some point. Psychologically it feels better going further (and, probably, financially better too) but if you can't beat them you're not going to win and if you do beat them then I think you end up with an 'easier' route in terms of seeding.

The team picked for Sunday should have been full strength and then fully rotate for Leinster away. That way we would have had a chance to win on Sunday giving us a real shot at last 16.

Can we win the CC, absolutely not, but what’s the point of not even trying to progress? It’s a daft format, but we’re stuck with it so might as well have a crack at it.

Winning and losing are habits, two losses on the bounce going into Xmas isn’t good for squad confidence.

If you're going to play the likes of Sela, Staddon et al. then better to partner them with some experience in a game they can win rather than have them flogged by Leinster.

I suspect there'll be rotation against Leinster too but it will be a good test of the character of the squad.

Quote:

OutsideBath
The team picked for Sunday should have been full strength and then fully rotate for Leinster away. That way we would have had a chance to win on Sunday giving us a real shot at last 16.
Can we win the CC, absolutely not, but what’s the point of not even trying to progress? It’s a daft format, but we’re stuck with it so might as well have a crack at it.

Winning and losing are habits, two losses on the bounce going into Xmas isn’t good for squad confidence.

Plus a very unimpressive win against the bottom team!

I'm really excited about the team and wish I could watch it. I think it is strong enough to get a win, it shows a lot of faith in them and as others have said, I would prefer them to play in a game where they can get a result rather lose confidence in getting beaten up by Leinster.

[www.oddschecker.com]

Benetton slight favourites with the bookies tonight, and the format means they don't play Leinster in the pool stage which is an advantage. Lucky for them...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

LaRochelle 35-7 Bristol. The recipe for beating Bristol being displayed for the second week. Simply dominate up front!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Easy enough if you have a pack like La Rochelle but the Briz forwards pretty much a match for all Prem sides. Parity up front is all they need. Their biggest challenges will be squad depth and playing their fast, fluent rugby now the pitches are softer and the weather a bit unpleasant.

Leinster, Tigers, Bulls, Castres, Ulster, Sale 6 Championship Cup games in total all viewable for free HERE


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Here’s a thought: in each pool the top four teams go into the round of 16; the fifth team drops into the Challenge cup and the sixth drops out entirely.

Bath need only come above the lowest team to go into the Challenge cup and above two to qualilfy for the top16.

If I were playing the odds for this year, a fifth position might give a better chance of winning a trophy than a fourth place and an away game against potentially Leinster or Toulouse.

I'd love us to come 5th and be drawn away to a French side. Trouble is, if we lose tomorrow and get nothing there's a fair chance we'll come 6th! Fwiw I think we'll be competitive tomorrow but if you were looking at 5th you'd want Benetton at home.

Its all about focus though. I don't think we are considering Europe in any form. JvG is concentrating on the Prem. Imagine flirting with the Challenge cup and Finn or Ben or Ted picking up an injury or HIA and missing the semi final!

We know we are competitive in the Prem, let's not get distracted.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
Its all about focus though. I don't think we are considering Europe in any form. JvG is concentrating on the Prem. Imagine flirting with the Challenge cup and Finn or Ben or Ted picking up an injury or HIA and missing the semi final!
We know we are competitive in the Prem, let's not get distracted.

I’ve come full circle on this & think you’re right. This is an ideal match for this very talented group to express themselves & will tell us a lot about them. Throwing them in against Leinster would be a step too far. Also, retaining a focus on winning the Premiership this year has to be the principle aim. The first team needs to get back to full strength & find their early season form which has slipped in the last two matches. Having one or two youngsters who can step up will be useful backup.

Quote:

The Bear
If you're going to play the likes of Sela, Staddon et al. then better to partner them with some experience in a game they can win rather than have them flogged by Leinster.
I suspect there'll be rotation against Leinster too but it will be a good test of the character of the squad.

Agree.

In terms of selection for today I think 'character' will be v important and I am confident about that.

When we were abject at the end of the hooper days from memory 5 of our best players in massive adversity were richards, reid, bayliss, bailey and mojo - they all start today. Staddon also played aged 18 in a struggling team and didn't look out of place

Have no concerns about their resilience.

Quote:

TomReagan
I'd love us to come 5th and be drawn away to a French side. Trouble is, if we lose tomorrow and get nothing there's a fair chance we'll come 6th! Fwiw I think we'll be competitive tomorrow but if you were looking at 5th you'd want Benetton at home.

Bath should be aspiring to finish higher than 5th/6th though Tom. The team selection today means the club aren’t too bothered about finishing 6th

As a travelling fan I feel a little disrespected about Bath putting out a weak team.

Appreciate your disappointment OB and I am normally an advocate of a handful of changes game to game max biut their is context here in this selection.

Falcons away now looks v banana skinny to me and is on a 6 day turnaround. Can't afford to take that lightly- then we are in to a brutal run of fixtures.

I would rather target the tournament we can win.

I think the issue is I have never seem you behind a selection that is any less than the ' best available 23'. That just isn't possible these days and your best 23 won't be your best 23 for long if you flog them.

As I say I like this selection on the whole but may feel differently if I had spent hundreds of pounds to go out for it.

Understand you point Charlie, just wish the club had been upfront at the start of the season about lack of effort to win games in the CC.

Had I known I wouldn’t have travelled.

How will you feel if Bath go full bore in the futile effort to get something in Leinster?

Mixed feelings re leinster selection- assume they will run in to it having paid lip service to urc fixtures so feels an impossible task.

Can't get too excited either way- as you say a bit futile but be nice not to get a drubbing.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend OB and hope you get a pleasant surprise at the match

Please could one of you out there -BSJ,OB or others- post the occasional update for us at home who have not got Premier Sports?

PG

Had we beaten La Rochelle would JVG gone harder for the Champions cup?
Did the home loss affect his Selection?
Not sure as he has said the players know which games they are playing

Widcombe Garçon

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

TomReagan
I'd love us to come 5th and be drawn away to a French side. Trouble is, if we lose tomorrow and get nothing there's a fair chance we'll come 6th! Fwiw I think we'll be competitive tomorrow but if you were looking at 5th you'd want Benetton at home.

Bath should be aspiring to finish higher than 5th/6th though Tom. The team selection today means the club aren’t too bothered about finishing 6th

As a travelling fan I feel a little disrespected about Bath putting out a weak team.

Think the best we were ever going to get was coming 3rd. Losing to LR at home makes that difficult. If I'm to get my trip to France we need to win today (Clermont at home winnable though) so I'm not offering a view on team selection. Bottom line is you have to rotate and whenever you do there will be people who question it. I'm glad the likes of Richards and Staddon are being given meaningful game time - they won't let us down. Enjoy Venice. I saw us lose there on a very damp weekend a few years ago; I'm sure you'll be having a better time than I did!

On Radio Bristol now.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Looks a glorious day there - very jealous of those who have gone

Hmm pretty sure the Benetton player should have been pinged for not releasing in the tackle prior to that score

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Here we go, where we're at our best - with 14 men

Pass it to the ten fgs

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Got to tighten discipline but I think Benetton are getting away with a lot on the deck.

Not clicking yet l, need to do so soon or the game will get away from us

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Two tries down, Scrheuder yellow card and penalty count rising. Can't get into the game at the moment. 10-0

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Some really sloppy play atm

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Literally just diving onto the floor

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Good try. Simple and effective just what we need

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Bath try, Annett, 10-7

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

LS is just not getting enough distance on his kicks

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Yuck what a shocker

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Oof that's a tough one for Orlando

Bailey throws an interception pass on attack, Benetton try and conversion. 17-7 aftet 35mins

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Hopefully starting to see our physicality starting to swing things, that’s 2 where we have held up the ball carrier and we’ve also seen a few ripped balls

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

A.M 180
Oof that's a tough one for Orlando

9 times out of 10 we walk that in…

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Bennetton are off their feet at every ruck I swear

T hanks for th updates and comments guys. Keep them coming please.

PG

Matt Banahan summarising our match and suggesting some of our players don't look match fit/ready, not surprising given so little game time at this level for them. Also our combinations are not working as well as smoothly they could be. Some big guns on the Bath bench and we're going to need them in 2nd half. Benetton bench v strong too. We mustn't lose the first 20mins of 2nd half and see the game get away from us.

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Jaysus, that Macalou hit on Van Zyl in the Sarries game is a disgrace

So Schroeder…hate to say but just such a drop off from Ben

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

First off feet penalty-well overdue

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
So Schroeder…hate to say but just such a drop off from Ben

I just don't get him being above TCS

Experience is one thing but he is fundamentally a way past his prime

Quote:

A.M 180

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
So Schroeder…hate to say but just such a drop off from Ben

I just don't get him being above TCS

Experience is one thing but he is fundamentally a way past his prime

Trouble is now that it’s a risk to bring TCS on in case we get an injury in the backs

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Change after 2mins of 2nd half, TdT, Roux and Coetzee on

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Baylis looks in good nick

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Nice.
Credit where it's due, good long and accurate pass from Louis to put Cam on the outside shoulder of his defender.
Excellent by Miles, and good support by Josh

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:15:14:12:45 by Which Tyler.

What is the TMO smoking???

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Good decision

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
Baylis looks in good nick

Bayliss try against the run of play, converted by Bailey 17-14

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Try TdT, pick and go at close quarters, conversion made, 17-21, lat quarter now

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Extra physicality starting to tell 17 -21

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

Clarkey3k

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
Baylis looks in good nick

Bayliss try against the run of play, converted by Bailey 17-14

Not that against the run of play IMO.
TDT with try #3
Ben 17 - 22 Bath
60 min

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:15:14:19:50 by Which Tyler.

Ted Hill on for Bayliss, Coetzee carrying hard, TCS now on too

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

My heart is bleeding for OutsideBath having to sit through this engagingly competitive game of Rugby in the Treviso sunshine

Quote:

Clarkey3k
Ted Hill on for Bayliss, Coetzee carrying hard, TCS now on too

TCS just looks so much sharper

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Tuipulotu on for Annett

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

How long left?

PG

Yellow card Pjomoh, harsh, for a deliberate knock on in our 22

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

10 mins left, Ojomoh YC for deliberate knock on, should have been penalty only

Turnover won, lines cleared, 10mins to go

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Ojomoh card is one that could be anything from no-offence, through to yellow, and been fair.
So close to regathering, but equally, Benetton had us at 6s and 7s on the bust and play.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD

How on earth have we let them back in?

More to the point why are throwing it around like it’s Sevens given a slim lead and a man down

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

A.M 180
10 mins left, Ojomoh YC for deliberate knock on, should have been penalty only

Yeah not convinced by the YC…

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Dropped ball/knock on - no try!!

Benetton try under review, not given, phew. Brexit messed that up

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Seems a silly question, of course advantage is over.
You had clean possession of the ball, over the try line. How much more advantage do you want?

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD

Surviving due to poor Benetton play

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Treviso are stretching us massively. Can we hold on for 4 mins?

Benetton butcher an overlap try, poor Umaga pass. Bath lineout

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

What on earth are we doing

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Bath hold them up over the line, ye gods, how many more will the screw up

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

This ref has killed us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:15:14:42:41 by A.M 180.

Just got at really really dozy at times

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Bah

Benetton penalty in 22, Ojomoh back on, lineout drive

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

What a shocking performance by us

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Try Benetton in 80th minute 😭, much better 2nd half, LBP earned, 22-21

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Quote:

A.M 180
This ref has killed us.

You can't be serious..

Frankly quite a few players who were given an opportunity to step up failed to take it. Sloppy, ill disciplined and some incredibly poor decision making.

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”

Quote:

A.M 180
This ref has killed us.

Quote:

Toast and Marmite
What a shocking performance by us

Quote:

OutsideBath
Not a great game to watch so not much to say anyway.

Really not sure I've been watching the same match as some people

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:15:17:51:49 by Which Tyler.

Well played Benetton - Just wanted to say given the criticism this season of officials - thought the referee today was brilliant and got most if not all decisions correct including standing Upto the TMO.

Hard to say Bennetton didn’t deserve the win really despite their best attempt to butcher it towards the end.

Positive to get bonus point and good experience for some young player as well

We are lacking accuracy and discipline at the moment which I think magnifies itself due to our style of play.

Defence was awful in that last 10

Quote:

Ali1969
Well played Benetton - Just wanted to say given the criticism this season of officials - thought the referee today was brilliant and got most if not all decisions correct including standing Upto the TMO.

Ref really wasn’t the difference- would have liked him to look a bit harder at Benetton on the deck but other than that no issues

Edit: tbf not sure on Max YC but we had literally one replay so can’t really say for sure

’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:15:14:52:29 by Toast and Marmite.

Quote:

by
Defence was awful in that last 10

Yeah we were down a man but it was shocking how much space there was out wide. If Landy executes that pass in the first half...

Thrilling last 15mins and thought we'd nick it tbh. Benetton did their best to try and let us win but their final move came off after blowing 2/3 earlier chances. TdG strong performance, OB a little rusty (no surprise), bench took us into lead, Benetton bench took it back. We worked v hard and almost pulled it off...

Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's

Lack of Game Management to be honest. Think we have to be realistic we have a very good squad but it is showing we are nowhere near strong enough to be challenging on more than one front. Look at our back row and just how quickly we can be depleted. Not surprisingly enormous drop off from Finn - it shows, if you take away his individual brilliance, just how good his game management really is.

Benetton seriously good side and should be punching a lot harder in URC given the quality they have.

Thought a number of players stood out today albeit we were not as miserly as normal in defence. Jaco, TdT certainly gave us go forward but Bayliss again showed just how good he is.

Interesting dilemma for JvG for the last two games - we can still qualify with a good home win against Clermont and a BP against Leinster but at what price - it would almost certainly mean an away trip to one of the favourites. We have some seriously important Premiership games coming up.

Funny old game. Hold them out at the end and it’s a huge, hard fought win. Concede as we did and it feels like a poor performance that shows how green we are. To be fair, Benetton won it, rather than us losing it, so fair play to them. Bayliss was superb. Redpath too.

Park all Euro thoughts now and enjoy the fact that our stars have had a week on the beach. See where we are with fitness etc when the comp comes around again.

Thing is- and yes this is through bb&w tinged specs- but fully loaded, home or away, I reckon we get close to most. Toul last year away, we could have won. Home win v Clermont and see what draw we get. No fear. Zero expectations. Give it a crack. And maybe we surprise a few.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Quote:

dcsh
There is also a place in the Challenge Cup up for grabs if we don’t reach the final 16, so even if we can’t compete for winning the Big Cup yet we could give the little cup a good crack! I would have thought a decent win on Sunday would have given up a decent chance.

I think it’s probably a big ask to even get the 5th position and a place in the Challenge Cup now. Bristol have Bennetton at home I’d expect them to get 5 points, so we’d need a win against Clermont or Leinster…

Quote:

P G Tips
Please could one of you out there -BSJ,OB or others- post the occasional update for us at home who have not got Premier Sports?
PG

Apologies PG, left mobile in hotel room so couldn’t provide any updates. Not a great game to watch so not much to say anyway.

The result was pretty much as expected, although with a little more control we could have pinched it.

Very good scramble defence, but no marshalling of the defence in midfield apparent. None of the fringe players did anything to suggest they can step up.

Total lack of control at 9 and little creativity at 10 meant our backs offered little threat. Recruitment needed in both positions.

The pack went much better than expected against a good Benetton pack. Pretty much assured of 6th place now so the players will get the rest the coaching team desire.

Given our apathy towards European competition I hope we don’t scrape 5th position and drop down into challenge cup.

On the bright side Venice is a wonderful city, the wine is excellent and reasonably priced.

Thanks OB.

I must say, even with that selection, I thought that we would win & at 70 mins it sounded as if we could.

Following comments on here I got the impression our defence ran out of vigour. Also with a 4 point lead & 13 minutes to go we needed to force a kickable penalty or take a drop goal to stretch the lead.

Ah well, on with the Prem.

PG

Benneton v Bath full game is available here


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Losing Max at the end gave them all the space they needed, their backs were already causing problems when we had 15. When Max came back on they’d already got the deciding lineout. With better kicking by our 9 and a little more clear thinking we could have held on.

Will be egg on face for our coaches if we still lose at Newcastle after resting most of our key players.

Couldn’t help but think if we’d just played Finn and Ollie we’d have won easily.

Is it correct that 5th is our best hope? If in Round 3 we can beat Clermont and Bristol beat Benetton, and all 3 teams lose on the final day, will it not be down to bonus points and possibly points difference?

The annoying thing was we had the lineout after they threw it into touch, ran one more phase and then got stripped in contact. A good exit from there would have put money on us closing it out. That plus the 14 swing from Landy in the first half.

Quote:

BathIron
Is it correct that 5th is our best hope? If in Round 3 we can beat Clermont and Bristol beat Benetton, and all 3 teams lose on the final day, will it not be down to bonus points and possibly points difference?

Previously you have needed 8 or 9 point to get into the last 16 ie 4th place in your pool. We currently have 2 point with 10 still available from the last two matches, but given we lost to Benetton, who I suspect would have been the favourites to finish bottom, that seems a long shot.
I think Bath are more focused on the next set of Premiership matches than European progress. I suppose how those 3 matches go and the status of injuries will dictate if they put out a strong team at home against Clermont and go for it or not.

Quote:

dcsh

Quote:

BathIron
Is it correct that 5th is our best hope? If in Round 3 we can beat Clermont and Bristol beat Benetton, and all 3 teams lose on the final day, will it not be down to bonus points and possibly points difference?

Previously you have needed 8 or 9 point to get into the last 16 ie 4th place in your pool. We currently have 2 point with 10 still available from the last two matches, but given we lost to Benetton, who I suspect would have been the favourites to finish bottom, that seems a long shot.
I think Bath are more focused on the next set of Premiership matches than European progress. I suppose how those 3 matches go and the status of injuries will dictate if they put out a strong team at home against Clermont and go for it or not.

The coaches didn’t take today’s game seriously so not sure why that attitude will change for the Clermont game. As for the Leinster game it will be plain daft to risk any of our important players.

The attitude seems to be to get us out of Europe asap so we can try and win the PL. Quite a risky strategy given how competitive the PL is now.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

dcsh

Quote:

BathIron
Is it correct that 5th is our best hope? If in Round 3 we can beat Clermont and Bristol beat Benetton, and all 3 teams lose on the final day, will it not be down to bonus points and possibly points difference?

Previously you have needed 8 or 9 point to get into the last 16 ie 4th place in your pool. We currently have 2 point with 10 still available from the last two matches, but given we lost to Benetton, who I suspect would have been the favourites to finish bottom, that seems a long shot.
I think Bath are more focused on the next set of Premiership matches than European progress. I suppose how those 3 matches go and the status of injuries will dictate if they put out a strong team at home against Clermont and go for it or not.

The coaches didn’t take today’s game seriously so not sure why that attitude will change for the Clermont game. As for the Leinster game it will be plain daft to risk any of our important players.

The attitude seems to be to get us out of Europe asap so we can try and win the PL. Quite a risky strategy given how competitive the PL is now.

I know there are many who enjoy the 'jeopardy' of sides being able to qualify - even losing their first 3 matches (a la Racing last season) - but that, and the inclusion of the SA sides, means that teams take weekends off and it's crap.

I thought that was a good enough team to win but it is bad for those fans who paid to see their team - only to see them field (essentially) a 2nd XV. Likewise fans of clubs who get visiting SA sides shorn of any of their big name stars.

Exciting finish but both teams way off the standard required for this competition, unfortunately it seems to show just how reliant we are on first choice 9 & 10, take them away and we lose shape and composure. Dangerous strategy to be so reliant on two players, especially in such a competitive Premiership.

When you see how Toulouse demolished Exeter following the demolition of Ulster then add in La Rochelle, Leinster, Bordeaux discussion of progressing is simply premature.
As a club we are not ready yet. We don't have the unique point of difference yet like a huge dominant pack or a Dupont, Ntamack, Ramos trio or most importantly a history of winning trophies. That's a future goal!
As identified by others there is a gulf in this competition.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked
When you see how Toulouse demolished Exeter following the demolition of Ulster then add in La Rochelle, Leinster, Bordeaux discussion of progressing is simply premature.
As a club we are not ready yet. We don't have the unique point of difference yet like a huge dominant pack or a Dupont, Ntamack, Ramos trio or most importantly a history of winning trophies. That's a future goal!
As identified by others there is a gulf in this competition.

I think we can win the Premiership, though our form in the last 3 games has been poor & it may not be that easy to switch back to the level required to retain top spot. We may not have put out a first team but something seems to have been missing throughout. We are so much less effective without our first choice halfbacks, the lineout is iffy & our defence porous at present so we are always playing catch-up.

Is it just me or is something not quite right this season? Yes we are top of the league only losing one game, Yes we are hard to beat, The first of JVGs original targets.
Personally I feel we have retracted to a not wanting to lose than wanting to play. We are kicking more this season, (Finn included) . How many games have Lawrence and Cokanasiga hardly touched the ball?
Plus, Why rest Lawrence from a fully loaded team v La Rochelle and not pick him yesterday? Every other England player has played.
I really hope im proved wrong and we turn it on over christmas but I do fear all the tinkering with selection could do us more harm than good.

adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.

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shipwrecked
When you see how Toulouse demolished Exeter following the demolition of Ulster then add in La Rochelle, Leinster, Bordeaux discussion of progressing is simply premature.
As a club we are not ready yet. We don't have the unique point of difference yet like a huge dominant pack or a Dupont, Ntamack, Ramos trio or most importantly a history of winning trophies. That's a future goal!
As identified by others there is a gulf in this competition.

There is a gulf, but the other English sides have embraced the challenge and got morale boosting wins (Bristol aside, but at least they tried). We however have not made the effort and go into the tricky Newcastle game on the back of 2 losses and now under pressure.

Bath are way below par this season and could have used yesterday to work things out and finally prove that Bath can win away in Europe.

One thing that was clearly demonstrated against Benetton was: No Finn = No win

Alternative thought, the biggest difference between this season and last is our injury list, last season was the lowest I can remember and we overachieved. This season we're just not quite able to put the power down in the last twenty. Obano, Du Plessis, Barbeary, Underhill in the squad the last two weeks would have made a massive difference.

Equally Finn got injured late last season and only some spending Carribbean time got him back - that could very easily have gone the other way. Rinsing him mid season is not worth it.

Quote:

OutsideBath
We however have not made the effort

I think this is hugely insulting to the players that were in the 23 yesterday OB. The replacements (such as Bayliss, Moloney etc) have played many games at the highest level. JVG didn't put out the u16s. Some of the rotation was forced due to injuries (Spencer) and international rules (Stuart, Lawrence) and some to keep key players fresh for the next block of games.

Quote:

OutsideBath
One thing that was clearly demonstrated against Benetton was: No Finn = No win

He can't play every international, Premiership and European game a season, he has to be rested for some games.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

OutsideBath
Bath are way below par this season

What would be par for us?
As far as I can see, this season, we're 1st in the table.
2nd most points scored, and 2nd most tries scored (both behind Bristol)
2nd fewest points conceded, and 1st fewest tries scored (behind Leicester and nobody)
2nd best home record, with 15 points from an available 20
2nd best away record, with 14 points from an available 15


The team that was seen to be throwing in the towel, to be badly beaten by Benetton was leading on 79 minutes in an entertaining and competitive game.

A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything

RAEBURN SHIELD

I also have the feeling that something is missing this season, we are winning matches but our backs are not putting defences under much pressure. We are relying on individual excellence which was displayed yesterday - how often did our wings touch the ball throughout the whole game? Maybe when the weather improves we will play a more expansive game, but I think the fact that we have a really good set of forwards, most of whom are playing well entices the coaches to rely on them winning the game in the last quarter rather than expecting the backs to cut teams apart.

I know we are disappointed with the Euro campaign but some of the comments that have been made are very disingenuous towards the team and coaches.

JvG is acutely aware of the demanding schedule placed on players - especially when you factor in Summer Internationals, Autumn Internationals and Six Nations - add to that a European competition which at times could easily be counted as a further International - then add other matters like International training camps, Premiership cup etc.

We know only too well how England in particular seem to damage players - how many minutes has Sam Underhill played in a BB&W shirt this season? Ollie Lawrence really has not had a break for the best part of 18 months.

We have a very good squad - but we lost Du Plessis which was huge in terms of sharing the workload up front and limited options without replacement to date - resulting with the likes of Ted Hill filling in.

Yesterday we came up against a Benetton side absolutely packed with quality International talent on their own patch and lost on the final play of the game by a point, I feel that some do not credit Benetton with the quality they have if they were French some would have a different opinion - they certainly are not the Italian sides of old and we went with a side which was full of POTENTIAL talent but raw and that needs to be factored into everything.

JvG has spoken of the ludicrous workload in the next few weeks and need to look after the players we simply cannot challenge some of the teams in France or Ireland so to compare our performances to the like of Toulouse is ridiculous IMHO.

I do believe JvG and the coaching team are making us very difficult to beat and then adding different layers to the base level - yesterday showed where Orlando Bailey is still learning in game management - which is understandable given his lack of game time - I did note his leg was very heavily strapped.

Yesterday some of those younger players really put a shift in - Staddon, Sela, Tuipoloita and Grace looks like he has some serious pace although he was up against a monster in Ratave. Yes we lost but the experience and lessons learnt is invaluable.

We have an away trip to Newcastle 21st December - no team fancies going up there in winter - Dimes will have them ticking and they will be fired up like hell - if we win then it will be a good win but it certainly is no "gimme".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:12:16:09:33:44 by Ali1969.

I totally agree on the rotation/workload issue. Overplaying risks injury to vital players & experience has to be given to the rest of the squad wherever possible. We almost won yesterday.

To say something is missing this season is bizarre - we have 29 points and are top of the premiership. Last year we had 22 points at the same stage, the season before 13 and the year before we lost the first 7 games of the premiership.

We are top of the premiership cup - a sign of our developing squad depth and yes we have lost 2 disappointing European fixtures but that is hardly a sign of decline. The first game was against one of the best sides in Europe and yesterday was an attempt to balance a long season and further develop a squad. Yes we lost but that doesn't mean it was a wrong long-term decision.

There are some very short memories around.

Sadly, this competition is not a serious one in its current guise - just look at some of the results this weekend

Fully back JVG's approach to this one. The Premiership has to be the priority

Having watched the game now that side were growing into it as it progressed and Ojomoh's card was a killer. Many of those who are not regulars will have had just the experience needed.
Reid and Baylis' try was excellent, Josh Baylis has the ability to make the line with 2-3 defenders hanging off him fantastic performance from him.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Ali1969
I know we are disappointed with the Euro campaign but some of the comments that have been made are very disingenuous towards the team and coaches.
JvG is acutely aware of the demanding schedule placed on players - especially when you factor in Summer Internationals, Autumn Internationals and Six Nations - add to that a European competition which at times could easily be counted as a further International - then add other matters like International training camps, Premiership cup etc.

We know only too well how England in particular seem to damage players - how many minutes has Sam Underhill played in a BB&W shirt this season? Ollie Lawrence really has not had a break for the best part of 18 months.

We have a very good squad - but we lost Du Plessis which was huge in terms of sharing the workload up front and limited options without replacement to date - resulting with the likes of Ted Hill filling in.

Yesterday we came up against a Benetton side absolutely packed with quality International talent on their own patch and lost on the final play of the game by a point, I feel that some do not credit Benetton with the quality they have if they were French some would have a different opinion - they certainly are not the Italian sides of old and we went with a side which was full of POTENTIAL talent but raw and that needs to be factored into everything.

JvG has spoken of the ludicrous workload in the next few weeks and need to look after the players we simply cannot challenge some of the teams in France or Ireland so to compare our performances to the like of Toulouse is ridiculous IMHO.

I do believe JvG and the coaching team are making us very difficult to beat and then adding different layers to the base level - yesterday showed where Orlando Bailey is still learning in game management - which is understandable given his lack of game time - I did note his leg was very heavily strapped.

Yesterday some of those younger players really put a shift in - Staddon, Sela, Tuipoloita and Grace looks like he has some serious pace although he was up against a monster in Ratave. Yes we lost but the experience and lessons learnt is invaluable.

We have an away trip to Newcastle 21st December - no team fancies going up there in winter - Dimes will have them ticking and they will be fired up like hell - if we win then it will be a good win but it certainly is no "gimme".

Couldn’t agree more - some really promising performances in there. Lots of the young players showed that they can compete at that level and show the depth. Sent a heavily rotated side to a very good Benneton side who have been a top top side at home this year and nearly won.

Makes some really interesting selection battles for Newcastle.

Annett to possibly get the start? Dunn and Annett are very back and forth which I really like. Seems like this might be the time for Annett to get a little run.

Imagine Stuart will be back to start then Sela bench. TDT getting a needed rest

Starting locks pick themselves. But I’d be tempted to have Hill at 19 or Richards over Molony.

Backrow is very tough. Bayliss and Reid both in top nick. Pepper and Coetzee aswell. Could we see 6. Bayliss 7. Pepper 8. Reid with 19. Hill 20. Richards 23. Coetzee

Love to see TCS at 21. As said by others brings the pace off the bench. With Spencer starting fingers crossed.

Centre is the big question for me. Lawrence to get another break? Can looking very good so might see Butt and Cam together.

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Which Tyler

Quote:

OutsideBath
Bath are way below par this season

What would be par for us?
As far as I can see, this season, we're 1st in the table.
2nd most points scored, and 2nd most tries scored (both behind Bristol)
2nd fewest points conceded, and 1st fewest tries scored (behind Leicester and nobody)
2nd best home record, with 15 points from an available 20
2nd best away record, with 14 points from an available 15


The team that was seen to be throwing in the towel, to be badly beaten by Benetton was leading on 79 minutes in an entertaining and competitive game.

Forget the points total, you are in dreamland if you think we’re playing well. We may be winning, which is generally all that matters, but it’s been a battle and we haven’t put anyone to the sword like our squad quality suggests we should do.

As for the Benetton game, would not suggest the players threw the towel in as some of them played well, but selection suggested the coaches aren’t bothered about progressing in the Champions Cup.

The Newcastle result will determine if it was the right decision to send out a 2nd team yesterday or not.

My takeaways (most already mentioned).
1. We were an interception away from winning. 13 players rested/recovering was a rotation or two too many, but if we had won JVG would have been hailed a hero.
2. How Schreuder keeps getting the nod over TCS baffles me. Add in the silly yellow card and TCS's case surley becomes undeniable.
3. Orlando Bailey is no Finn Russell but then nobody is. He needs time on the pitch. That said, who is next choice FH? Presumably Redpath would fill in. We're definitely shallow in that position.
4. Grace and McConnochie, both supposedly international standard players, were completely anonymous. Grace in particular fell off a lot of tackles. Shape up or ship out?
5. Great experience for those players stepping up particularly the likes of Sela and Tuipolutu. This will only help come the sharp end of the season.
6. 4th in the table is within reach if they really want it, but for me 5th and a run in the Challenge Cup would be more beneficial for team development and fan entertainment than a R16 loss away to a French giant.

BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
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2020/21 Will Stuart

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

Which Tyler

Quote:

OutsideBath
Bath are way below par this season

What would be par for us?
As far as I can see, this season, we're 1st in the table.
2nd most points scored, and 2nd most tries scored (both behind Bristol)
2nd fewest points conceded, and 1st fewest tries scored (behind Leicester and nobody)
2nd best home record, with 15 points from an available 20
2nd best away record, with 14 points from an available 15


The team that was seen to be throwing in the towel, to be badly beaten by Benetton was leading on 79 minutes in an entertaining and competitive game.

Forget the points total, you are in dreamland if you think we’re playing well. We may be winning, which is generally all that matters, but it’s been a battle and we haven’t put anyone to the sword like our squad quality suggests we should do.

As for the Benetton game, would not suggest the players threw the towel in as some of them played well, but selection suggested the coaches aren’t bothered about progressing in the Champions Cup.

The Newcastle result will determine if it was the right decision to send out a 2nd team yesterday or not.

It is weird to suggest we forget how many games we have won or by how many and just rely on individual posters feeling as to whether we are playing well. That is not how competitive sport works and of course it has been a battle as we are in a salary capped league and the entire season will be a struggle as I fully expect Falcons away to be.

We have put sides to the sword - 5 tries against Northampton (+22 point diff), 7 tries at Kingsholm (+24 point diff) and 6 tries against sale (+27 points diff).

We might not look great every game but to suggest we should win every game easily is just fanciful.

Quote:

Never In Doubt

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OutsideBath

Quote:

Which Tyler

Quote:

OutsideBath
Bath are way below par this season

What would be par for us?
As far as I can see, this season, we're 1st in the table.
2nd most points scored, and 2nd most tries scored (both behind Bristol)
2nd fewest points conceded, and 1st fewest tries scored (behind Leicester and nobody)
2nd best home record, with 15 points from an available 20
2nd best away record, with 14 points from an available 15


The team that was seen to be throwing in the towel, to be badly beaten by Benetton was leading on 79 minutes in an entertaining and competitive game.

Forget the points total, you are in dreamland if you think we’re playing well. We may be winning, which is generally all that matters, but it’s been a battle and we haven’t put anyone to the sword like our squad quality suggests we should do.

As for the Benetton game, would not suggest the players threw the towel in as some of them played well, but selection suggested the coaches aren’t bothered about progressing in the Champions Cup.

The Newcastle result will determine if it was the right decision to send out a 2nd team yesterday or not.

It is weird to suggest we forget how many games we have won or by how many and just rely on individual posters feeling as to whether we are playing well. That is not how competitive sport works and of course it has been a battle as we are in a salary capped league and the entire season will be a struggle as I fully expect Falcons away to be.

We have put sides to the sword - 5 tries against Northampton (+22 point diff), 7 tries at Kingsholm (+24 point diff) and 6 tries against sale (+27 points diff).

We might not look great every game but to suggest we should win every game easily is just fanciful.

Other teams are allowed to be good too.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Quote:

Outside Bath
but selection suggested the coaches aren’t bothered about progressing in the Champions Cup.

I would suggest that the coaches put out a team they thought would be able to beat Benetton. The fact that team failed by two points (which included an interception try) would suggest they were not a million miles away from picking the right combination.

Sometimes, you don't need to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

And 3 tries conceded during yellow cards, which coaches didn’t plan !!!!

I do wonder whether last years European campaign has had a bigger impact on JvGs thinking than we thought, as that R16 game against Exeter showed two things
1. Injury risk, we lost Finn for a good few weeks and we were probably lucky it wasn’t more, although it probably cost us against Sarries at home
2. Exeter beat us, went away to Toulouse, got hammered, then played an (arguably weaker) Bath team in the league and convincingly lost
I love a European run but considering barring a total miracle we (or any English team) won’t win the comp, I do think there’s a good argument not to waste resources on it

So now back in the UK after tacking on a few days in Venice (very enjoyable)

Views about Treviso

What a very lovely place and we had great fun out and about in a charming little city. Very, very friendly natives.....

Only downside not enough taxis........apparently UBER have been barred from operating......which just goes to show to a old luddite the possible good powers of technology.

Benetton the Club

Very intimate, yes really only 5,000, as they have not built out the ends, I suppose if they ever had the need they could go to 14,000 to 15,000. Very friendly club and a little bit like a rugby club was in the UK say 20 years ago.

The Game

Very, very disappointed.

It was there for us to win.

Problems.......lack of precision.......passes going above the receivers head just should not happen in my view in a professional team

In the last two games we have taken 5 yellow cards......I suggest more than one yellow card and you are going to struggle to win

Interception pass...........this was a 14 point turnaround. THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THIS. A double pump favoured by Mr Russell would have secured the try. This was a body blow.

However we came back and were in the lead.

The Ojomoh yellow card, which unlike the posters above I thought was fair, was also unnecessary. Players have got to be more analytical and more precise as to risk and reward.

To be honest overall the younger players have seen some action and are now aware of what they have to do to be better and on the pace.

I feel Bath against La Rochelle and Treviso were naive in conceding penalty after penalty AND NOT PLAYING THE REF........the definition of madness is repeating the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.

Last few games have been a wake-up call for Bath as we are not quite as good as the results might indicate.

Clearly, little or no work was undertaken during the autumn internationals & this was evident against Exeter. Bad habits & poor discipline have crept back in & it will be interesting to see if they are eliminated against Newcastle. They need to be as that is a banana skin awaiting.

Archie Griffin Out for 'Considerable Period' - [www.bbc.co.uk]