A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
By Ian Lockwood
June 1 2010
Christian Horner addresses the Red Bull Racing fan base
You may have already read on the team website my answers to some of the important issue which were raised after the grand prix on Sunday. I do however want to address you, the fans of Red Bull Racing directly.
There has been a lot of criticism on the sites and within the Community and while I can't answer every point, there are some which need to be addressed.
Firstly, the accident itself was a racing incident. We have two very capable, very determined drivers in what has proved so far this season to be a very quick car. With the McLarens putting immense pressure on our two drivers Mark and Sebastian reacted the way you would expect racing drivers to respond: they raced each other. This has happened many times between them over the last 18 months, and previously they abided by what we have always asked: that as team-mates they show respect for each other and allow one another enough room on the race track.
Secondly as far as blame goes, we win as a team and we lose as a team and on Sunday we lost as a team. Having looked at all the information it's clear it was a racing accident that shouldn't have happened. After looking at all the facts that weren't available immediately after the race, the entire team, Dr Marko included, fully shares this view.
Thirdly we now have to re-group. We are a strong team and we'll sit down and discuss what we can learn from this incident. We have immense team spirit here at Red Bull Racing, both Sebastian and Mark are intelligent individuals and we will have the situation resolved before we go to Montreal.
And finally as I have always pledged, both drivers, will continue to be given equal treatment. The Turkish Grand Prix has been a costly lesson for both drivers and we are confident that this situation won't happen again.
We still have a long way to go this year until Abu Dhabi and whichever Red Bull Racing driver you're behind in the fight for the world championship, I hope we - and they - can count on your support,
Christian
A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Racing Bulls (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:17
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Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:21
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: chrislinford (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:26
sayes nothing, does not address any real issue, especially the loathing for Marko.
If Mark has problems in the next race or two this will not go away. The only solution is for Marko to resign and Vettel to applogise.
Chris
If Mark has problems in the next race or two this will not go away. The only solution is for Marko to resign and Vettel to applogise.
Chris
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: growler (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:32
Blight, Some sites are a just a bit slow at putting up news. That story that you link to may have been posted today, but the comments are from something Marko said to Speed TV after the race.
www.racingbulls.net
www.racingbulls.net
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:38
OK. fair call.
Although I must admit to you it doesn't change my mind. Marko blamed mark because he said he should of got out of the way, there are no facts around that could possibly change that point of view. He had spoken to Marks engineer, he knew about the fuel.
Although I must admit to you it doesn't change my mind. Marko blamed mark because he said he should of got out of the way, there are no facts around that could possibly change that point of view. He had spoken to Marks engineer, he knew about the fuel.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Ex Red Bull Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:42
Not good enough CH.
I understand you can't admit to team orders, but we're not stupid.
Hell Mutt must resign, or be sacked. He is a liability to the RB brand. I'm sure I'm not the only fan that will not buy another RB product while he is in the company's employ.
SV must apologise for his antics, and take the blame, at least for the most part for the crash.
I understand you can't admit to team orders, but we're not stupid.
Hell Mutt must resign, or be sacked. He is a liability to the RB brand. I'm sure I'm not the only fan that will not buy another RB product while he is in the company's employ.
SV must apologise for his antics, and take the blame, at least for the most part for the crash.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: chrislinford (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:44
I buy loads of stuff EX. I am with you, I will not even wear it.
I sent a message to their shop asking to return my Vettel hat, LOL
I sent a message to their shop asking to return my Vettel hat, LOL
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Ex Red Bull Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:45
Not good enough CH.
I understand you can't admit to team orders, but we're not stupid.
Hell Mutt must resign, or be sacked. He is a liability to the RB brand. I'm sure I'm not the only fan that will not buy another RB product while he is in the company's employ.
SV must apologise for his antics, and take the blame, at least for the most part for the crash.
I understand you can't admit to team orders, but we're not stupid.
Hell Mutt must resign, or be sacked. He is a liability to the RB brand. I'm sure I'm not the only fan that will not buy another RB product while he is in the company's employ.
SV must apologise for his antics, and take the blame, at least for the most part for the crash.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Whitey*~@ (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:47
Fair enough I am kinda pretty happy with what Horner has said there, it does heal the wounds a little bit.
I think Mark Webber would want his fans to calm down a bit and just get behind him now because Mark is in with a real shot at the WDC this year....Go Mark.
*** WILLIAMS F1 FAN SINCE 1985 ***
I think Mark Webber would want his fans to calm down a bit and just get behind him now because Mark is in with a real shot at the WDC this year....Go Mark.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: wilson1981 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:52
The whole thing is just deeply disappointing. I'm a Mercedes supporter, but always admired the Red Bull Team. This whole thing has just been an utter disgrace. Vettel was clearly in the wrong. I actually used to really like him, but he has been so petulant this year, acting like a spoilt child....and now we know why, he has the whole of Red Bull Management behind him. It's just sad. Mark has been doing such a great job, and seems such a straight-on guy....and this is what he gets as thanks?
Deeply disappointing Red Bull. And I'm not even a follower! This must be crushing, if one was...
Deeply disappointing Red Bull. And I'm not even a follower! This must be crushing, if one was...
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: wilson1981 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:53
The whole thing is just deeply disappointing. I'm a Mercedes supporter, but always admired the Red Bull Team. This whole thing has just been an utter disgrace. Vettel was clearly in the wrong. I actually used to really like him, but he has been so petulant this year, acting like a spoilt child....and now we know why, he has the whole of Red Bull Management behind him. It's just sad. Mark has been doing such a great job, and seems such a straight-on guy....and this is what he gets as thanks?
Deeply disappointing Red Bull. And I'm not even a follower! This must be crushing, if one was...
Deeply disappointing Red Bull. And I'm not even a follower! This must be crushing, if one was...
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Jock 2009 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:53
I really hope for the sake of the team that there are no pit lane incidents for Mark in the near future. Even if they are totally unintentional and accidental they will never be able to sell it to the public.
The crash was regrettable as was Seb's initial reaction but all that can be passed off as heat of the moment stuff. The festering wound that will remain in the mind of the general public is what orders were given that led to the crash and why were they given.
The extremely poor PR performance after the race has left the team looking untrustworthy and now no minor incident will be accepted without harsh scrutiny for signs of race fixing.
...on Earth, as it is in Queensland
The crash was regrettable as was Seb's initial reaction but all that can be passed off as heat of the moment stuff. The festering wound that will remain in the mind of the general public is what orders were given that led to the crash and why were they given.
The extremely poor PR performance after the race has left the team looking untrustworthy and now no minor incident will be accepted without harsh scrutiny for signs of race fixing.
...on Earth, as it is in Queensland
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Whitey*~@ (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:54
Thanks for your support wilson, great post mate.
*** WILLIAMS F1 FAN SINCE 1985 ***
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Whitey*~@ (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 15:56
Good post Jock, in saying what your saying this incident could now actually work in Marks favour.
*** WILLIAMS F1 FAN SINCE 1985 ***
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Jock 2009 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 16:03
I doubt it Whitey. People like Hell Mutt have so much invested in Sebastion achieving the potential he so obviously has that they will screw Mark given the chance. No amount of public opinion will change that. Even if Horner believes his own words about fairness and equity he will be powerless to stop it because Marko is the one with the direct line to the man with the money. Horner will do what he's told. They won't be so blatant about it again but just wait and see...there is a monkey in training to climb back aboard Mark's back.
God I hope I'm wrong but as I always say 'just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get me'.
...on Earth, as it is in Queensland
God I hope I'm wrong but as I always say 'just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that they're not out to get me'.
...on Earth, as it is in Queensland
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Leonidas84 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 16:51
It is nice that CH wrote us. The only thing I wish is EQUAL TREATMENT between the drivers. Real, not only in words. Things such Mark got the last parts 3 minutes before Q3, shouldn't happen again. If you can guarantee this to us, CH, I will continue to support Red Bull Racing.
Also, I'd like an apology from Vettel but this isn't very important.
For the next year, if there is EQUAL TREATMENT I'd like Mark to continue to RBR. If you can't replace H. Marko at least you, CH, support Mark for Christ sake! He is first in the championship and he needs the team to support him.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:06:01:20:23:45 by Leonidas84.
Also, I'd like an apology from Vettel but this isn't very important.
For the next year, if there is EQUAL TREATMENT I'd like Mark to continue to RBR. If you can't replace H. Marko at least you, CH, support Mark for Christ sake! He is first in the championship and he needs the team to support him.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:06:01:20:23:45 by Leonidas84.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 16:59
Will Red Bull ever learn? Best car two years in a row and nothing to show for it. Are they going to throw it away this year as well?
Was Webber's late season fall in form in 2009 just that, or something more sinister.......
Was Webber's late season fall in form in 2009 just that, or something more sinister.......
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 17:57
There were a few very bad pit calls.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Gunk (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 18:44
Have you also read the new, heavily revised, Horner press release?
It is entirely weasel-worded but Christian is now backing down. (It was just a racing incident.) Obviously, in the face of worldwide media condemnation, what else could he do.
Anyway, it's now not (quite) what he said earlier. Hmmm ...
I think all this throws an interesting light on Red Bull's priorities and marketing strategy. They think the 'wunderkind' is the new Red Bull icon. But really, can you have both an identikit advertising figure and a potential WDC?
The most 'Red Bullish' persona recently - in marketing terms - was Scott Speed. Now, he was young, cheeky, had real presence before a camera, upwardly mobile and so on. Martin Brundle once said, if he gives up racing, he's got a great career as a TV presenter. Problem was with Scott, he couldn't pedal fast enough.
DC and Mark, by contrast, were two really boring old f@rts who didn't fit the Red Bull brand image at all, but they moved the team along enormously.
To be fair to CH, which I find hard at this time, I think he's getting mixed messages from his bosses.
It is entirely weasel-worded but Christian is now backing down. (It was just a racing incident.) Obviously, in the face of worldwide media condemnation, what else could he do.
Anyway, it's now not (quite) what he said earlier. Hmmm ...
I think all this throws an interesting light on Red Bull's priorities and marketing strategy. They think the 'wunderkind' is the new Red Bull icon. But really, can you have both an identikit advertising figure and a potential WDC?
The most 'Red Bullish' persona recently - in marketing terms - was Scott Speed. Now, he was young, cheeky, had real presence before a camera, upwardly mobile and so on. Martin Brundle once said, if he gives up racing, he's got a great career as a TV presenter. Problem was with Scott, he couldn't pedal fast enough.
DC and Mark, by contrast, were two really boring old f@rts who didn't fit the Red Bull brand image at all, but they moved the team along enormously.
To be fair to CH, which I find hard at this time, I think he's getting mixed messages from his bosses.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 21:23
I cant believe how one sided everyone here is being.. its so rediculous.. yall expect these guys to just go follow suit, and not race.. and just parade around the track.. WTH.. Vettel was faster.. we all noticed it.. hell, even LH was lookin inside on Webber when he was right behind him in that same spot..
Orders or not.. These guys get paid to race.. Vettel had one more lap of prime fuel mixture, before he had to turn it down to conserve.. i personally woulda been disappointed in Vettel if he didnt give it a go.. he even had a look the lap before.. these guys are racers, not glorified parade drivers..
In the onboard, vettel was past mark by about a half a car length.. on the inside line.. where is the team respect when mark doesnt move back to the racing line, at least giving vettel room to make the corner.. mark had vettel right on the edge of the track.. even after vettel had wheels past him.. also.. with all the washboard effect on that corner under braking.. cmon..
I take the same stand.. racing incedent, both are racers, and it happens.. vettel tried, and failed.. happens to the best.. mark didnt give room, i dont blame him.. but yall all talk about this team effort, and this and that.. Mark was passed, and didnt want to let it go.. so he squeezed Vettel to the edge the whole way down that straight..
Orders or not.. These guys get paid to race.. Vettel had one more lap of prime fuel mixture, before he had to turn it down to conserve.. i personally woulda been disappointed in Vettel if he didnt give it a go.. he even had a look the lap before.. these guys are racers, not glorified parade drivers..
In the onboard, vettel was past mark by about a half a car length.. on the inside line.. where is the team respect when mark doesnt move back to the racing line, at least giving vettel room to make the corner.. mark had vettel right on the edge of the track.. even after vettel had wheels past him.. also.. with all the washboard effect on that corner under braking.. cmon..
I take the same stand.. racing incedent, both are racers, and it happens.. vettel tried, and failed.. happens to the best.. mark didnt give room, i dont blame him.. but yall all talk about this team effort, and this and that.. Mark was passed, and didnt want to let it go.. so he squeezed Vettel to the edge the whole way down that straight..
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/06/2010 23:09
well i for one don't accept horners latest. he is still being duplicitous. he claims webber put vettel onto the dirty side! no he didn't. vettel put vettel on the dirty side.
if horner want's to weasel out then that is fine but don't expect the fans/followers to adopt the same demeaning attitude. if you can't actually bring yourself to say sorry we screwed it up and mark has done nothing wrong then you will not bring this chapter to any finality.
as for marko! you cannot, in any organisation have two people running the show where one of them has an entirely different agenda to the other. it is called conflict of interest.
as for grobe you are just so out of touch. i suggest you view all the footage. i have seen some shots, forward from the inside of the track and vettel at the point of contact has a car width plus at least a metre between his car and the grass verge! it was webbers call.
if horner want's to weasel out then that is fine but don't expect the fans/followers to adopt the same demeaning attitude. if you can't actually bring yourself to say sorry we screwed it up and mark has done nothing wrong then you will not bring this chapter to any finality.
as for marko! you cannot, in any organisation have two people running the show where one of them has an entirely different agenda to the other. it is called conflict of interest.
as for grobe you are just so out of touch. i suggest you view all the footage. i have seen some shots, forward from the inside of the track and vettel at the point of contact has a car width plus at least a metre between his car and the grass verge! it was webbers call.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Ozzy Osbone (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 00:18
Grobe, I don't think anyone has issue with Vettel having a go. Or Webber holding his line. Two racers going for a turn and it went wrong. If they hadn't been team mates it would all be forgotten by now. The simple fact is that numerous ex and current F1 drivers say it was Vettels fault. So what, he made a mistake. Pity he can't accept that and apologies but he's a young kid and he'll grow up. Everyone makes mistakes.
The issue here is the pigs ear which the management are making of this. What they should have done is kept their mouth's shut and held the line that it was a team matter and would be sorted out in the team. Vettel should have had a bollocking behind closed doors and that would be that. The press would get not another word about it.
Instead they have 2 senior guys blabbing their mouths off and blaming Webber as well as giving conflicting stories.
They look like idiots. Seb looks like a spoiled kid and Webber looks the best of the lot.
The issue here is the pigs ear which the management are making of this. What they should have done is kept their mouth's shut and held the line that it was a team matter and would be sorted out in the team. Vettel should have had a bollocking behind closed doors and that would be that. The press would get not another word about it.
Instead they have 2 senior guys blabbing their mouths off and blaming Webber as well as giving conflicting stories.
They look like idiots. Seb looks like a spoiled kid and Webber looks the best of the lot.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: twopigs (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 00:42
ozzy, spot on. i posted something along similar lines in another thread. the incident we can get past, these things happen. former world champs on the same team have done the same and i am sure that we will see the same thing happen again.
but as you said in your post, it is what has transpired since the end of the race sunday that has a lot of people up in arms. management are in place to be impartial, deflect critisim, keep internal matters inhouse. this has not happened and what we have are public comments made by so called team leaders.these are comments which you would expect from entry level exects.
but as you said in your post, it is what has transpired since the end of the race sunday that has a lot of people up in arms. management are in place to be impartial, deflect critisim, keep internal matters inhouse. this has not happened and what we have are public comments made by so called team leaders.these are comments which you would expect from entry level exects.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 01:26
Quote:K1
well i for one don't accept horners latest. he is still being duplicitous. he claims webber put vettel onto the dirty side! no he didn't. vettel put vettel on the dirty side.
if horner want's to weasel out then that is fine but don't expect the fans/followers to adopt the same demeaning attitude. if you can't actually bring yourself to say sorry we screwed it up and mark has done nothing wrong then you will not bring this chapter to any finality.
as for marko! you cannot, in any organisation have two people running the show where one of them has an entirely different agenda to the other. it is called conflict of interest.
as for grobe you are just so out of touch. i suggest you view all the footage. i have seen some shots, forward from the inside of the track and vettel at the point of contact has a car width plus at least a metre between his car and the grass verge! it was webbers call.
Funny comment considering Mark had the better car for the last couple of races.
Maybe the TEAM was slow at recognizing Vettel had a defective chassis?
There's just no justice in F1, even when a driver like Mark makes cacca in Bharain and Malaysia.
"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: abbey345 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 02:15
Has anyone heard or read any reaction from Adrian Newey ???
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: gturner (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 03:16
Quote:Vettel was faster.. we all noticed it.. hell, even LH was lookin inside on Webber when he was right behind him in that same spot..
Orders or not.. These guys get paid to race.. Vettel had one more lap of prime fuel mixture, before he had to turn it down to conserve.. i personally woulda been disappointed in Vettel if he didnt give it a go.. he even had a look the lap before.. these guys are racers, not glorified parade drivers..
In the onboard, vettel was past mark by about a half a car length.. on the inside line.. where is the team respect when mark doesnt move back to the racing line, at least giving vettel room to make the corner.. mark had vettel right on the edge of the track.. even after vettel had wheels past him.. also.. with all the washboard effect on that corner under braking.. cmon..
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Vettel being allowed to run one more lap on the higher fuel seting. In fact, if the drivers are being given "equal treatment," then you must allow each driver to maximize his car. there's also nothing wrong with Vettel trying a pass. The problem with Vettel's pass is that he tried it in a spot where he couldn't finish it. Webber gave him a car width plus about 6 inches which, truth be told, is about a foot more than he would normally give another driver. It's up to the passing driver to make sure he can complete the pass cleanly. If Vettel couldn't make the corner without pushing Webber to the right, then he shouldn't have tried.
And as for Hamilton, he waited until Webber had drifted further over before taking a look. In fact, Vettel may have been better off going a little wide through 11 so he would have caught Webber later.
Should Webber have given more space? Probably, but it's still not his responsibility to do so. The irony is that turn 12 is one of the few places where it's easier to complete a pass around the outside, so Vettel chose the wrong side anyway.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: nuthabloodyozzie (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 03:31
Quote:There would be nothing wrong with that.....except you don't NOT tell your lead driver, the guy who's leading the race, and has for 40 laps, that the second driver has turned his fuel settings up, in order to pass you. And that he only has one lap in which to make it stick. The whole thing stinks.gturnerQuote:Vettel was faster.. we all noticed it.. hell, even LH was lookin inside on Webber when he was right behind him in that same spot..
Orders or not.. These guys get paid to race.. Vettel had one more lap of prime fuel mixture, before he had to turn it down to conserve.. i personally woulda been disappointed in Vettel if he didnt give it a go.. he even had a look the lap before.. these guys are racers, not glorified parade drivers..
In the onboard, vettel was past mark by about a half a car length.. on the inside line.. where is the team respect when mark doesnt move back to the racing line, at least giving vettel room to make the corner.. mark had vettel right on the edge of the track.. even after vettel had wheels past him.. also.. with all the washboard effect on that corner under braking.. cmon..
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Vettel being allowed to run one more lap on the higher fuel seting. In fact, if the drivers are being given "equal treatment," then you must allow each driver to maximize his car. there's also nothing wrong with Vettel trying a pass. The problem with Vettel's pass is that he tried it in a spot where he couldn't finish it. Webber gave him a car width plus about 6 inches which, truth be told, is about a foot more than he would normally give another driver. It's up to the passing driver to make sure he can complete the pass cleanly. If Vettel couldn't make the corner without pushing Webber to the right, then he shouldn't have tried.
And as for Hamilton, he waited until Webber had drifted further over before taking a look. In fact, Vettel may have been better off going a little wide through 11 so he would have caught Webber later.
Should Webber have given more space? Probably, but it's still not his responsibility to do so. The irony is that turn 12 is one of the few places where it's easier to complete a pass around the outside, so Vettel chose the wrong side anyway.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: gturner (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 03:38
Quote:There would be nothing wrong with that.....except you don't NOT tell your lead driver, the guy who's leading the race, and has for 40 laps, that the second driver has turned his fuel settings up, in order to pass you. And that he only has one lap in which to make it stick. The whole thing stinks.
Why not? Are you suggesting that Webber would have driven the lap differently had he known? There really wasn't anymore Webber could have done to defend his position, so there is no need to tell him. More imprtantly, if they've truly been racing each other the whole time, then Webber should have been prepared for a move to be made.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: nuthabloodyozzie (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 03:56
Quote:gturnerQuote:There would be nothing wrong with that.....except you don't NOT tell your lead driver, the guy who's leading the race, and has for 40 laps, that the second driver has turned his fuel settings up, in order to pass you. And that he only has one lap in which to make it stick. The whole thing stinks.
Why not? Are you suggesting that Webber would have driven the lap differently had he known? There really wasn't anymore Webber could have done to defend his position, so there is no need to tell him. More imprtantly, if they've truly been racing each other the whole time, then Webber should have been prepared for a move to be made.
He might not have. But the guy who was going to pass him was his team-mate. Surely they would have known?
Webber was clearly faster in Malaysia, yet never attempted a move on Vettel. Nor did he feel he had an option to pass him using pit strategy....
The same rules are not being applied to both drivers.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: hmmm_ok (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 04:18
Quote:nuthabloodyozzie
Webber was clearly faster in Malaysia, yet never attempted a move on Vettel. Nor did he feel he had an option to pass him using pit strategy....
The same rules are not being applied to both drivers.[/quote
Another point.
Everytime Webber has been behind Vettel in a race this year Vettel has stopped first ( the accepted better strategy). Every time Webber was in front Vettel still stopped first.... still getting the prime strategy even though he is not leading the race.....Previous races you could say ok it was because Vettel was so far behind Webber there was no danger he would leap frog him, but Turkey... come on an extra second in the pits or somewhere and Vettel would have jumped him
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: ck11 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 06:51
People are claiming that vettel had every right to pass webber fair enough, although questionable because button did the same thing to hamilton and lewis wasnt impressed. Mclaren management have come out and said that they asked both drivers to turn down their engines at the same time.
Secondly, webber is in no way obliged to dive out of vettels way the very second vettel tries to overtake, it would set a precedent where webber would be expected to just shuffle out of the way everytime vettel is close, webber might as well give up the WDC now. This is racing and you earn your position.
As most people said, the incident itself can be forgotten, (mind you vettel had no class in the way he behaved), but helmut marko and the team were way out of line in blaming mark and cuddling vettel. That is a P.R disaster you cant just walk away from with a few craftily drafted press releases.
I would love to see webber leave the team because no other driver will ever get equal treatment next to vettel. It is one thing being given equal equipment, but it is injustice when management is backing another driver with so much support.
Webber has pitted after vettel in every race so he can protect vettel's position. I doubt the same would ever be done for webber. Not to mention, the fact that the team environment after webber's victory in nurburgring looked more like a wake than a celebration. Why mark puts up with such@#$%&is beyond me.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:06:02:07:46:30 by ck11.
Secondly, webber is in no way obliged to dive out of vettels way the very second vettel tries to overtake, it would set a precedent where webber would be expected to just shuffle out of the way everytime vettel is close, webber might as well give up the WDC now. This is racing and you earn your position.
As most people said, the incident itself can be forgotten, (mind you vettel had no class in the way he behaved), but helmut marko and the team were way out of line in blaming mark and cuddling vettel. That is a P.R disaster you cant just walk away from with a few craftily drafted press releases.
I would love to see webber leave the team because no other driver will ever get equal treatment next to vettel. It is one thing being given equal equipment, but it is injustice when management is backing another driver with so much support.
Webber has pitted after vettel in every race so he can protect vettel's position. I doubt the same would ever be done for webber. Not to mention, the fact that the team environment after webber's victory in nurburgring looked more like a wake than a celebration. Why mark puts up with such@#$%&is beyond me.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:06:02:07:46:30 by ck11.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: likosmokeses (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 07:32
Mr Horner, please advice your drivers to have a public statement about all this mess.
It's important, as you can figure out, that they must make clear what's their opinion.
I understand is difficult but, if that happened, public support will be rejuvenated.
Whatever we can say, their thoughts are more important.
Also, from my view, if you want REALLY to get WDC, take a look at F1 history : the WDC drivers was FAVORITES in their teams.
Right now Mark is ahead, YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT HIM.
It's important, as you can figure out, that they must make clear what's their opinion.
I understand is difficult but, if that happened, public support will be rejuvenated.
Whatever we can say, their thoughts are more important.
Also, from my view, if you want REALLY to get WDC, take a look at F1 history : the WDC drivers was FAVORITES in their teams.
Right now Mark is ahead, YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT HIM.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 07:51
Nice of Christian to release this, but sounds a little bit hollow and two days too late.
I'd like to see a public statement from Helmut Marko before I see one from Vettel.
I'd like to see a public statement from Helmut Marko before I see one from Vettel.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: willber (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 08:28
The only thing to take out of this press release, is the wave of condemnation world wide over their handling of the issue and the questions it raises (equal treatment etc).
So much so that RBR felt compelled to release this statement.
So much so that RBR felt compelled to release this statement.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: uplate (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 10:34
The question still has to be answered - why was Mark told to turn the engine down then still had the fuel to put in fastest laps to try to catch a 'fuel low' mclaren? Surely if fuel was an issue he would have been told just to keep 3rd place safe! Just makes it more suspicious!!
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 11:18
It's not going to be answered, because the answer is not fit for public consumption.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: soluto_de_lugol (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 11:43
I'm more of a Force India/ Jordan F1 supporter, but it sure does look weird that Webber was putting up very fast laps in the end, even though he had a damaged car to drive...
... or maybe the damage was actually aerodinamically advantageous? hahah!
Cheers,
SdL
... or maybe the damage was actually aerodinamically advantageous? hahah!
Cheers,
SdL
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: boci (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 12:04
im pretty sure the fastest laps were due to new tyres and light fuel
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Herman Munster (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 14:07
That statement is political BS
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: PunkJr (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 15:00
Vettel....defective chassis! C'mon, don't tell me you buy that crap. Webber has been the form driver of the two for the last month. As for Turkey, we'll never know, as Seb did have an actual problem with his car in qualy. We don't know who would have been on pole do we? but Mark was leading, and Vettel was faster at that point in the race. there are a few reasons for this, but Mark did all the hard work for the entire race. for RBR to tell him to just roll over for Seb is just shite. don't blame mark for putting up a fight. but if it was LH pulling that move on Mark, not a person in the world would question who would be to blame.
Poor form RBR. Poor form Seb. your facade is slowly crumbling. okay, i'll swallow the 'racing incident' mantra, but show some humility and apologise for your post crash antics.
Poor form RBR. Poor form Seb. your facade is slowly crumbling. okay, i'll swallow the 'racing incident' mantra, but show some humility and apologise for your post crash antics.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 02/06/2010 15:35
Agreed ozzy, completely..
I dont think they told mark to move over and let seb by. thats the whole problem.. mark wasnt gonna let his faster teammate by. he moved over on seb, just like he did with Lewis behind him.
And i really havent gotten into what most you guys on here are getting into.. the political part of it from the top guys like Horner, and Hellmut.
i am looking at it as a F1 "race" fan.. who wants to see passes.. who wants to see setups, and forced mistakes.. when Lewis was behind mark.. i was on the edge of my seat.. wondering when he was gonna have a go, and where.. see the side by side racing..
This is what F1 needs.. needs a little on track controversy.. as much as i hate it. thats why Nascar is popular here in the states. Remember all the old battles of the day.. thats what F1 is about.. i am glad that all 4 cars were within a second of each other on the track 40 laps into the race.. made for great coverage.. and not just another boring parade..
I am glad Seb took a go on mark.. the way it ended, not how i wanted.. cuz i want Redbull to win.. been a fan of them since the beginning.. a new rising team taking it to the big Factory teams.. love it..
and as most have said.. i think the big wigs in RBR should have just shut up.. and handled it in closed doors.. but i think seb did right by giving it a go.. just 2 competative teammates who are tied for points, and everything.. having a go.. i love it..
I dont think they told mark to move over and let seb by. thats the whole problem.. mark wasnt gonna let his faster teammate by. he moved over on seb, just like he did with Lewis behind him.
And i really havent gotten into what most you guys on here are getting into.. the political part of it from the top guys like Horner, and Hellmut.
i am looking at it as a F1 "race" fan.. who wants to see passes.. who wants to see setups, and forced mistakes.. when Lewis was behind mark.. i was on the edge of my seat.. wondering when he was gonna have a go, and where.. see the side by side racing..
This is what F1 needs.. needs a little on track controversy.. as much as i hate it. thats why Nascar is popular here in the states. Remember all the old battles of the day.. thats what F1 is about.. i am glad that all 4 cars were within a second of each other on the track 40 laps into the race.. made for great coverage.. and not just another boring parade..
I am glad Seb took a go on mark.. the way it ended, not how i wanted.. cuz i want Redbull to win.. been a fan of them since the beginning.. a new rising team taking it to the big Factory teams.. love it..
and as most have said.. i think the big wigs in RBR should have just shut up.. and handled it in closed doors.. but i think seb did right by giving it a go.. just 2 competative teammates who are tied for points, and everything.. having a go.. i love it..
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: willber (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 00:17
This also feeds the conspiracy believers.
eg We've always been told mark uses more fuel than seb.
Is this really the case or just a smoke screen so they can get mark to detune earlier each race (or fuel him heavier)
eg We've always been told mark uses more fuel than seb.
Is this really the case or just a smoke screen so they can get mark to detune earlier each race (or fuel him heavier)
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 00:48
grobe, you still don't get it! vettel chose to attack in the wrong place at the wrong time and not only paid the penalty but also cost the team valuable points.
you simply don't understand the dynamics of what occurred and the reasoning behind all of this. to do so means to examine the current history.
i am more or less convinced that all the details have not been released and probably never will be however suffice to say that the team [excluding webber] have made a real dogs breakfast of it.
you only need to examine the rush to judgement about webber and the claim that it was his fault to get the message. forget what us fans/armchair experts are saying and concentrate on what all the professionals, team owners, media pundits et al.are saying. RBR have exposed to the public now that they are showing favoritism to vettel and they stand condemned.
once the merde hit the fan, how ,many times have they changed their story in order to massage the fallout?
you simply don't understand the dynamics of what occurred and the reasoning behind all of this. to do so means to examine the current history.
i am more or less convinced that all the details have not been released and probably never will be however suffice to say that the team [excluding webber] have made a real dogs breakfast of it.
you only need to examine the rush to judgement about webber and the claim that it was his fault to get the message. forget what us fans/armchair experts are saying and concentrate on what all the professionals, team owners, media pundits et al.are saying. RBR have exposed to the public now that they are showing favoritism to vettel and they stand condemned.
once the merde hit the fan, how ,many times have they changed their story in order to massage the fallout?
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: gturner (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 00:54
Quote:im pretty sure the fastest laps were due to new tyres and light fuel
The fact that the fastest lap of the race was set by Petrov confirms just how much a fresh set of tyres will help.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Clinker (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 07:55
Grobe + Horner = @#$%&.
Grobe you have either no idea about racing or you where watching another race. Please look at the front on footage, Vettel had heaps and heaps of room, there was room for another car on the outside of Vettel. If you have a look at the footageyou see Vettel turn in on Webber, Webber does not have to let Vettel push him all over the track when he wants too, he held his line which is his right and which is expected of him. Horner is just being a @#$%& by not being honest and saying:
"VETTEL SHOULD OF HELD HIS LINE OR BACKED OF AS HE COULDNT MAKE THE PASS."
Grobe you have either no idea about racing or you where watching another race. Please look at the front on footage, Vettel had heaps and heaps of room, there was room for another car on the outside of Vettel. If you have a look at the footageyou see Vettel turn in on Webber, Webber does not have to let Vettel push him all over the track when he wants too, he held his line which is his right and which is expected of him. Horner is just being a @#$%& by not being honest and saying:
"VETTEL SHOULD OF HELD HIS LINE OR BACKED OF AS HE COULDNT MAKE THE PASS."
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 08:48
exactement mon ami. sometimes you have to patient with people like grobe who really do not understand the dynamics of F1 as it is an alien concept in the USA. he sees only what he wants to see and seems to think that we are all idiots.
the visual evidence cannot be denied
in this incident. mark webber is a racer and he is driving for the WDC. why in a million years would he rollover for vettel. hamilton was in no way able to get past. the team simply wanted to give the race to vettel.
marko was whining to the press after the race and he said something along the lines, 'look at poor sebastian, two zeros.' says it all really.
the visual evidence cannot be denied
in this incident. mark webber is a racer and he is driving for the WDC. why in a million years would he rollover for vettel. hamilton was in no way able to get past. the team simply wanted to give the race to vettel.
marko was whining to the press after the race and he said something along the lines, 'look at poor sebastian, two zeros.' says it all really.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 09:22
Put it this way. Mark squeezed Seb, so to avoid a crash, Seb steered even closer to the white line when they were alongside each other. If he had refused to drive nearer to the white line on principal because he was being put into an increasingly compromised position, Mark would have steered into the side of him and the roles would have been entirely reversed- we would have said Mark had cracked because Vettel was steering entirely straight.
So who is the one being pushed around?
So who is the one being pushed around?
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 09:32
oh really crusty! you are in denial. look at the visuals. are you blind?
no more, this is becoming tiresome.
no more, this is becoming tiresome.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 09:42
I have- I see one driver risking a crash by steering towards his team-mate, and I see the other driver refusing to avoid the crash. Ergo- Mark has a share of the blame.
I think it was 60/40 Vettel's fault, but only because he steered too sharply towards Webber. If Mark can squeeze, so can Vettel, but Vettel should not have done it so aggressively.
I think it was 60/40 Vettel's fault, but only because he steered too sharply towards Webber. If Mark can squeeze, so can Vettel, but Vettel should not have done it so aggressively.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 09:50
So you are blaming mark partly because he did what any racer should, and hold his line? I think vettel just thought the position was going to be given to him.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: f1man (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 09:52
crusty - demon lol
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 10:06
Christian has created this malaise by not taking decisive action very early in the piece. I believe that he left the circuit about an hour after the presentation. He should have bolted down the garage and hospitality centre and held an emergency enquiry. I have a great deal of respect for Christian and admire the way that RBR goes racing. The guard of honour at the rear of the race car is a tongue in cheek swipe at some of the stuffiness that surrounds F1. It was great fun to see the Monaco celebrations. Christian has a real wasp's nest to deal with here. It will be a test of his mettle when things get tough.
Mark is disadvantaged at RBR because Germany was where the RB product grew wings and took off. (sorry - bad joke). It is still a very important market for RB. There has been talk of RBR taking on new sponsors and no-one knows how much sponsorship negotiations have had to play in this saga.
So far, I have not been impressed with the way this incident has been handled. I get the feeling that Mark is being subjected to a few whispers that are intended to discredit him. I fail to see how Mark could have fuel problems while Seb did not. Because this incident was not resolved sooner, I do not see how a satisfactory, honest and open conclusion can ever be drawn. Nothing short of a transcript of the two car/pit conversations will prove whether Mark or Seb was at fault in this silly incident. If a transcript is not published then I believe that Mark has been telling the truth. But there again, I would believe what Mark says over a PR machine anyway.
Williams and proud of it.
Mark is disadvantaged at RBR because Germany was where the RB product grew wings and took off. (sorry - bad joke). It is still a very important market for RB. There has been talk of RBR taking on new sponsors and no-one knows how much sponsorship negotiations have had to play in this saga.
So far, I have not been impressed with the way this incident has been handled. I get the feeling that Mark is being subjected to a few whispers that are intended to discredit him. I fail to see how Mark could have fuel problems while Seb did not. Because this incident was not resolved sooner, I do not see how a satisfactory, honest and open conclusion can ever be drawn. Nothing short of a transcript of the two car/pit conversations will prove whether Mark or Seb was at fault in this silly incident. If a transcript is not published then I believe that Mark has been telling the truth. But there again, I would believe what Mark says over a PR machine anyway.
Williams and proud of it.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: crusty_bread (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 10:50
Quote:blight
So you are blaming mark partly because he did what any racer should, and hold his line? I think vettel just thought the position was going to be given to him.
Well Hamilton didnt hold his line when he was racing Vettel, did he? So it is nothing like as cut and dried as that.
As I have said before, if you fail to avoid a car on principal, you are accepting a share of the blame for making contact. Mark was positioned behind Vettel and in his blind-spot. It was Mark's choice.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 11:04
Huh? Sebastien hit Hamilton, and was lucky that it didn't end in tears. Hamilton was then nocked into mark webber. Your not really supporting your position.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 12:36
blight don't bother arguing with crusty anymore. i have now given up. he knows better than all the teams, drivers, ex drivers, media experts and literally thousands and thousands of fans and dedicated followers of other teams not only RBR.
faced with this seemingly awesome entity called crusty with his super intelligence and understanding which surpasses all the mere mortals aformentioned it becomes simply a waste of time to hold any other opinion.
faced with this seemingly awesome entity called crusty with his super intelligence and understanding which surpasses all the mere mortals aformentioned it becomes simply a waste of time to hold any other opinion.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 14:16
Yeah, we have another chat going on another thread. Tis all good =)
Maybe we should pose for a PR stunt with our hands in the air, and title it @#$%& Happens!
Maybe we should pose for a PR stunt with our hands in the air, and title it @#$%& Happens!
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 03/06/2010 14:40
Look, im not tryin to get into heated discussions.. i am a rather new F1 fan, i been watching for about 6-7 years now.. i got into it when MS was dominant..
I like how it has changed, and enjoy watching every weekend they come on.. i am not getting on here talkin bout how much i know and all that..
clinker, K1.. i enjoy reading all yalls comments as well as everyone elses.... i dont want to get into a he said she said with any of yall.. because it dont do any good..
no point in name calling, and hating.. we all enjoy the sport..
I like how it has changed, and enjoy watching every weekend they come on.. i am not getting on here talkin bout how much i know and all that..
clinker, K1.. i enjoy reading all yalls comments as well as everyone elses.... i dont want to get into a he said she said with any of yall.. because it dont do any good..
no point in name calling, and hating.. we all enjoy the sport..
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: CARLTORC (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 01:22
Kimi to Red Bull 2011
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: CARLTORC (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 01:23
Kimi to Red Bull 2011
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: f1man (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 02:20
kimi to the ice cream truck
crusty your very knobish
crusty your very knobish
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 02:51
Quote:blight
Yeah, we have another chat going on another thread. Tis all good =)
Maybe we should pose for a PR stunt with our hands in the air, and title it @#$%& Happens!
Hey maybe we should be dancing to YMCA. As in Yah Mark Comes Again?
Old man, there's no need to feel down.
I said, old man, pick yourself off the ground.
I said, old man, 'cause you're in a new town
There's no need to be unhappy.
You can get yourself clean, you can have a good meal
You can do whatever you feel ...
"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:06:04:02:53:19 by phatjack.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: LoudHoward (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 03:08
Quote:crusty_breadQuote:blight
So you are blaming mark partly because he did what any racer should, and hold his line? I think vettel just thought the position was going to be given to him.
Well Hamilton didnt hold his line when he was racing Vettel, did he? So it is nothing like as cut and dried as that.
As I have said before, if you fail to avoid a car on principal, you are accepting a share of the blame for making contact. Mark was positioned behind Vettel and in his blind-spot. It was Mark's choice.
lol, Seb was passing him. It's not like Mark was creeping up on him. Seb saw Mark right beside him, then it's like the instant Mark was in his blind spot he moved "aggressively" right. You can't go "Oh blindspot" when that happens. Unless Seb is very much an out of sight INSTANTLY out of mind kinda guy.
Again, I don't think Mark had enough time to do anything more than start to react, which is what he did.
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: phatjack (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 03:14
Quote:LoudHowardQuote:crusty_breadQuote:blight
So you are blaming mark partly because he did what any racer should, and hold his line? I think vettel just thought the position was going to be given to him.
Well Hamilton didnt hold his line when he was racing Vettel, did he? So it is nothing like as cut and dried as that.
As I have said before, if you fail to avoid a car on principal, you are accepting a share of the blame for making contact. Mark was positioned behind Vettel and in his blind-spot. It was Mark's choice.
lol, Seb was passing him. It's not like Mark was creeping up on him. Seb saw Mark right beside him, then it's like the instant Mark was in his blind spot he moved "aggressively" right. You can't go "Oh blindspot" when that happens. Unless Seb is very much an out of sight INSTANTLY out of mind kinda guy.
Again, I don't think Mark had enough time to do anything more than start to react, which is what he did.
Like in Malaysia. Where Mark had time to react? Please you keep on apologizing for Mark's mistakes.
"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: LoudHoward (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 03:52
I've actually worked out how much time it took from Seb moving over to impact, so I have a fair idea what was going on. Not really worth replying to you while I'm at work, since you tend to just latch on to a random bit of posting and say the opposite to get some reaction. I find it mostly entertaining but I like it more when you make at least a little bit of sense, a standard the above post fails to meet.
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Clinker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 10:08
PGJ
You have the exact same opinion that I have on RBR. Both Deitriech and Helmut have extremely close ties with Germany, Deitrech's best friend is the ex VW head.
Too much money in Gemany for Deitrech and RBR to have an Aussie win the WDC. Must have the German boy win the WDC to watch the money roll in.
Watch this space, If Vettel wins the WDC, next year you will see Red Bull Racing with the name of a very large German company on the side of the car.
You have the exact same opinion that I have on RBR. Both Deitriech and Helmut have extremely close ties with Germany, Deitrech's best friend is the ex VW head.
Too much money in Gemany for Deitrech and RBR to have an Aussie win the WDC. Must have the German boy win the WDC to watch the money roll in.
Watch this space, If Vettel wins the WDC, next year you will see Red Bull Racing with the name of a very large German company on the side of the car.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 13:33
@ Clinker
[">www.youtube.com]
Really.. looks from marks onboard that vettel was way ahead.. you can see room for a whole other car on the inside of vettel.. really.. Vettels rear tire was all the way to the marks front tire.. WOW..
and in the head on shot.. as you ask me to look at.. i see seb right on the line and mark right there holding him there.. after seb has allready got his rear tire to marks front tire..
Look at all that room to the right of mark.. geez..
[">www.youtube.com]
Really.. looks from marks onboard that vettel was way ahead.. you can see room for a whole other car on the inside of vettel.. really.. Vettels rear tire was all the way to the marks front tire.. WOW..
and in the head on shot.. as you ask me to look at.. i see seb right on the line and mark right there holding him there.. after seb has allready got his rear tire to marks front tire..
Look at all that room to the right of mark.. geez..
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 13:48
@ Clinker
[">www.youtube.com]
Search this on youtube.
Accidente Sebastian Vettel y Mark Webber Turquia 2010 Formula 1
you blast me.. i dont know what race yall were watching.. but this is what i saw.. and everyone else shoulda saw.. im not calling anyone out.. but you can see where hamilton is, on the racing line.. and mark is waaaaay left of the racing line.. and vettel has heaps of room?? just sayin..
[">www.youtube.com]
Search this on youtube.
Accidente Sebastian Vettel y Mark Webber Turquia 2010 Formula 1
you blast me.. i dont know what race yall were watching.. but this is what i saw.. and everyone else shoulda saw.. im not calling anyone out.. but you can see where hamilton is, on the racing line.. and mark is waaaaay left of the racing line.. and vettel has heaps of room?? just sayin..
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: LoudHoward (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 13:53
At impact, Mark was still halfway alongside Seb, when Seb decided to move it would've been even more.
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 19:49
at impact.. sebs rear wheel was almost at webbers front wheel.. agreed.. half a car.. no way seb could even see that mark was still there.. also.. i just read this statement on another forum..
"Two days later, however, the British magazine 'Autosport' published its report of the race. Its Grand Prix editor, Mark Hughes, wrote: "Going into lap 40 team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on."
I dont know the truth to that.. or the validity..
"Two days later, however, the British magazine 'Autosport' published its report of the race. Its Grand Prix editor, Mark Hughes, wrote: "Going into lap 40 team boss Christian Horner instructed Webber's engineer Ciaron Pilbeam to tell Webber to allow Vettel past. Pilbeam could not bring himself to pass the message on."
I dont know the truth to that.. or the validity..
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: pgj (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 20:36
Earlier in the season (Bahrain?) Mark avoids a shunt by allowing Seb to pass at bend one and Mark is a chump. Seb drives into the side of Mark and Mark is at fault. How does that work?
Williams and proud of it.
Williams and proud of it.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: PunkJr (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2010 23:34
why would vettel assume that webber would move? why did vettel move over to the right? that assumption, and that move are the only two contributing factors in this crash. webber wasn't squeezing him, merely holding his line. all top drivers would love to be able to overtake an opponent in such circumstances, all day long. but then again, if sebastian and mark were under team orders..............
the fall out of this incident has little to do with racing, and all to do with money. it's a shame that red bull has bought f1 into such disrepute. in the past it has been about a team garnering success through team orders, but to do it to appease or attract corporate sponsors?
the fall out of this incident has little to do with racing, and all to do with money. it's a shame that red bull has bought f1 into such disrepute. in the past it has been about a team garnering success through team orders, but to do it to appease or attract corporate sponsors?
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2010 03:01
grobe, to put it simply, you are wrong, wrong and wrong again.
loud is quite right. vettel turns in on webber when approx half way alongside.
at the point of impact vettel has almost half a car width on his left between him and the grass.
that is the end of the story. it cannot be any simpler.
loud is quite right. vettel turns in on webber when approx half way alongside.
at the point of impact vettel has almost half a car width on his left between him and the grass.
that is the end of the story. it cannot be any simpler.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: f1man (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2010 03:02
yeah corporate sponsors looking outside of square
shite he dude is german, and that does not equal austrian
if only marks nationality was AUT instead of AUS
they really are pathetic
shite he dude is german, and that does not equal austrian
if only marks nationality was AUT instead of AUS
they really are pathetic
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: LoudHoward (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2010 03:13
Quote:grobe
at impact.. sebs rear wheel was almost at webbers front wheel.. agreed.. half a car.. no way seb could even see that mark was still there.. also.. i just read this statement on another forum..
Because you don't need to see something that you already know is there. He was there half a second ago, it's likely (and his responsibility to assume that) he's still there.
If Webber had've put Vettel in the wall when Seb was only halfway alongside him, he would've been roasted for it, and fair enough. Anyone who argued that Mark just couldn't see him so hows he supposed to know he's still there would've been laughed at.
http://www.patronisef1.com - My solution to F1's 'bore' problem.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: Grobe (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2010 17:44
Mark is holding his line?? what line.. one car length from the inside? thats not the racing line.. look where LH is at the point of impact.. and whole car width toward the outside..
if it were reversed.. and mark woulda hit seb.. i would be blastin seb for the same thing..
You can see from the onboard, Seb had so much more speed, and half a second later.. thinking maybe mark knows i got him.. and went back to the racing line..
Seb didnt jerk right.. he moved right.. the jerk came from contact..
this is almost 2 weeks old.. movin on.. Lets go RBR.. keep up the pace.. a
if it were reversed.. and mark woulda hit seb.. i would be blastin seb for the same thing..
You can see from the onboard, Seb had so much more speed, and half a second later.. thinking maybe mark knows i got him.. and went back to the racing line..
Seb didnt jerk right.. he moved right.. the jerk came from contact..
this is almost 2 weeks old.. movin on.. Lets go RBR.. keep up the pace.. a
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: blight (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2010 18:02
I guess some people just like to rage against common sense and common opinion.
Rage away dear Grobe, rage away.
Rage away dear Grobe, rage away.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: PunkJr (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2010 12:50
mark's in the lead, he decides the racing line.....isn't that obvious or do i miss things?
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: webberrulz (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2010 16:43
he said she said.. SV got into mark, i see some of the points made about SV, and all that.. SV didnt do the pass right.. he was faster.. but didnt make the pass clean.. teammates, maybe one should have given way, but as a racer, i dont expect it.
Re: A Letter to Fans of Red Bull Racing From Christian Horner
Posted by: _Jono_ (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2010 03:39
Wow lots of posts!
It's hard to take Redbull seriously right now. The last week has been a fiasco.
I do like Mark Webber, probably more then Vettel. I have been watching him race for longer, and this is his chance.
I think the main problem though is that there is a lot of driver fans on this message board, all message boards.. teams try to keep up "we are fair" thing.. but I think there is also alot of driver fans within Redbull racing. It spoils the battle between the drivers. There have been hints before, but last Sunday was rather blatant.
I can't believe Marko still has his job. Marko doesn't even hide his feelings, he is blatantly one sided and has a very strong position within the team and to the owner. He is a retard.
I blame the team more then I blame any of the drivers. They had a rather safe situation.. they poured napalm on it and then blamed Webber when it burst into flames.
I didn't like it with Alonso in 2007 and I don't like it now. Let the drivers decide it on track Redbull, we are not idiots.
It's hard to take Redbull seriously right now. The last week has been a fiasco.
I do like Mark Webber, probably more then Vettel. I have been watching him race for longer, and this is his chance.
I think the main problem though is that there is a lot of driver fans on this message board, all message boards.. teams try to keep up "we are fair" thing.. but I think there is also alot of driver fans within Redbull racing. It spoils the battle between the drivers. There have been hints before, but last Sunday was rather blatant.
I can't believe Marko still has his job. Marko doesn't even hide his feelings, he is blatantly one sided and has a very strong position within the team and to the owner. He is a retard.
I blame the team more then I blame any of the drivers. They had a rather safe situation.. they poured napalm on it and then blamed Webber when it burst into flames.
I didn't like it with Alonso in 2007 and I don't like it now. Let the drivers decide it on track Redbull, we are not idiots.