Drop Dravid Now!
By Indian Cricket Fever
October 12 2010
India's second highest run scorer in Test cricket, and erstwhile "Wall" has been less than solid over the past 4 years or so. Is it time that the wall was moved, if not yet removed?
Rahul Dravid must be dropped now! No, not from the team. Yet. But down the batting order to No. 5 or 6. instead of the pivotal No. 3 position. Dravid is no longer the "The Wall" at one-down in the order, and it is high time that VVS Laxman be given the opportunity to play in that slot.
Let us look at the numbers, as the saying goes: Numbers don't lie. Since January 2007 Dravid has averaged barely 40 in Test matches while Laxman has averaged over 58. Even more crucially, Dravid's average outside India is a mere 37 while Laxman's is a healthy 52. Even more vitally, Dravid has averaged an anemic 26 versus the Australians, whom the Indians have played 10 times in the past 4 years. During the same time frame Laxman has averaged a robust 63.
Dravid, arguably may still be among the six best Test batsmen India has, especially in light of the inexperience of newcomers Vijay, Raina and Pujara on bouncy, pacy, non-subcontinental wickets, but he surely is not the ideal No. 3 at this time. In fact on several occassions after the openers have provided India with a solid and rapid start, the fall of the wicket and Dravid's entry in the middle has caused the innings to lose momentum, which in turn causes pressure on the rest of the line up. Once the paragon of invincibility he has looked decidedly shaky at the start of most of his innings lately.
It would be in the team's best interest to have VVS Laxman, whose brilliant batting down the order, indicates that fitness permitting, he is the best batsman in the Indian middle order, barring Tendulkar, and should be given the chance to play at his preferred position of No. 3 in the line-up.
Even if Dravid does anchor India's run chase and lead her to a victory in Bangalore tomorrow, there should be no change in plans, and VVS Laxman should replace Dravid at one-down in the batting order. If Dravid continues to flounder lower down the order, then he must be given notice like Sourav Ganguly was a couple of years ago, that he needs to script his own farewell or face the selectoral axe.
Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Indian Cricket Fever (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 22:00
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:27:18:55:00 by Birbal.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:27:18:55:00 by Birbal.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 23:17
I think exchanging Dravid / VVS position is not good option. Laxman plays best when he is on the gas position and number 5 is the that position.
But Dravid should retire form Test after SA tour. may be Gmabhir/Vijay can claim that slot and mature in that position with the company of Sehwag/Sachin/VVS
But Dravid should retire form Test after SA tour. may be Gmabhir/Vijay can claim that slot and mature in that position with the company of Sehwag/Sachin/VVS
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 23:25
What do you mean on the gas position?
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 23:43
It means you are out of the team if you dont perform 2/3 innings or the position where you won't get log rope for failures.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 23:44
That is just silly... why should you get shorter rope at 5 than at 3?
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 23:59
yeah it is silly but batsman at 3 is suppose to be your prime batsman and get more opportunity to deliver and can make up his failure with weak team. but at 5 position you don't get a chance to score big versus weak team and normally have to deliver vs good team.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: thirdman (IP Logged)
Date: 12/10/2010 23:59
If the BCCI does not want to promote VVS to #3 - then at least promote Ishant Sharma to #3.
Ish is better than Dravid.
DRAVID UTKALA BUNGLE !!!!!!!!
Ish is better than Dravid.
DRAVID UTKALA BUNGLE !!!!!!!!
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Spirit of Cricket (IP Logged)
Date: 13/10/2010 00:15
Thou art the ruler of the minds of all people,
dispenser of India's destiny.
Thy name rouses the hearts of Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, the Maratha country,
in the Dravida country, Utkala (Orissa) and Bengal;
It echoes in the hills of the Vindhyas and Himalayas,
it mingles in the rhapsodies of the pure waters Jamuna and the Ganges.
They chant only thy name,
they seek only thy blessings,
they sing only thy praise.
The saving of all people waits in thy hand,
thou dispenser of India's destiny.
Hail, Hail, Hail to thee.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:13:00:16:50 by Anil.
dispenser of India's destiny.
Thy name rouses the hearts of Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, the Maratha country,
in the Dravida country, Utkala (Orissa) and Bengal;
It echoes in the hills of the Vindhyas and Himalayas,
it mingles in the rhapsodies of the pure waters Jamuna and the Ganges.
They chant only thy name,
they seek only thy blessings,
they sing only thy praise.
The saving of all people waits in thy hand,
thou dispenser of India's destiny.
Hail, Hail, Hail to thee.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:13:00:16:50 by Anil.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Spirit of Cricket (IP Logged)
Date: 13/10/2010 00:19
The Wall is full of holes - retire him now!
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: thirdman (IP Logged)
Date: 13/10/2010 03:32
Gas position...as in not at the head...not at the tail...but right about the A$$ ?
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: amit (IP Logged)
Date: 13/10/2010 03:53
laxman is comfortable to bat at no.5
vijay, the guy whos to replace dravid is mainly an opener and would struggle at no.5, whereas he would feel better to bat at no.3 and most of the times, he will get support from players like sehwag, gambhir & tendulkar at the other end, ensuring his confidence stays up
the batting order should be -
sehwag
gambhir
vijay
tendulkar
laxman
raina
dhoni
pujara stays on as reserve batsman
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:13:03:54:36 by amit.
vijay, the guy whos to replace dravid is mainly an opener and would struggle at no.5, whereas he would feel better to bat at no.3 and most of the times, he will get support from players like sehwag, gambhir & tendulkar at the other end, ensuring his confidence stays up
the batting order should be -
sehwag
gambhir
vijay
tendulkar
laxman
raina
dhoni
pujara stays on as reserve batsman
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:13:03:54:36 by amit.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Spirit of Cricket (IP Logged)
Date: 13/10/2010 13:32
Pujara has done enough to displace Dravid at #3.
BTW, what a humiliation to be demoted in such an important innings against the Aussies! Here's hoping Dravid takes the hint and bows out with his dignity intact. He has been a great player for India.
BTW, what a humiliation to be demoted in such an important innings against the Aussies! Here's hoping Dravid takes the hint and bows out with his dignity intact. He has been a great player for India.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Gabbar (IP Logged)
Date: 13/10/2010 15:00
yeah pujara should come at no 3
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Tendulkar is the greatest cricketer of all time
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Tendulkar is the greatest cricketer of all time
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 21/10/2010 21:58
It is a fair OP.. Dravid should be moved to 5... for the benefit of the team...
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Shikari Shambu (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2010 04:54
The OP is idiotic because :-
1) It assumes Laxman will do great in No.3 because of some performances maybe a decade or so ago and in odd instances.He has not been playing at No.3 for a LOT of matches now.
2) It puts Dravid in an unfamiliar No.5 position.
People evolve in their strengths when playing at particular position..and when you play 100+ Tests there, they shud stay there
1) It assumes Laxman will do great in No.3 because of some performances maybe a decade or so ago and in odd instances.He has not been playing at No.3 for a LOT of matches now.
2) It puts Dravid in an unfamiliar No.5 position.
People evolve in their strengths when playing at particular position..and when you play 100+ Tests there, they shud stay there
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 22/10/2010 17:30
guess anything that does not agree with your preconceived notion about what is right is "idiotic"?
Actually you have not provided a single shred of evidence why the OP is idiotic...all you have provided is your opinion that it is unlikely to work...that is arguable...but the premise is by no means idiotic...
Something idiotic would be an article that argues that let's bring back Kapil Dev because India needs a pace bowling all rounder
Actually you have not provided a single shred of evidence why the OP is idiotic...all you have provided is your opinion that it is unlikely to work...that is arguable...but the premise is by no means idiotic...
Something idiotic would be an article that argues that let's bring back Kapil Dev because India needs a pace bowling all rounder
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Shikari Shambu (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2010 07:17
Birbal...when you put up an article, you have to be able to receive criticism...some people do find it idiotic..
I read the OP again to see what facts have been presented to support Dravid being moved down the order...There is a bit of numbers since 2007 which I will come to below. Then quite a few 'opinions' for which you blame me. Let us go to the opinions in OP
1) He surely is not the ideal No. 3 at this time.
This is surely an opinion as my numbers will show below.
2)In fact on several occassions after the openers have provided India with a solid and rapid start, the fall of the wicket and Dravid's entry in the middle has caused the innings to lose momentum, which in turn causes pressure on the rest of the line up. Once the paragon of invincibility he has looked decidedly shaky at the start of most of his innings lately.
Now this called preconceived notion. All of the above is one person's perception. No fact mind you.
3) VVS should be moved down to 3.
Now you are not changing position of 1 player but 2 of them.What makes one think that a) Laxman still wants No.3 and b) he is best suited to play brand new ball if openers fall cheaply considering that he has not had to do that since ages?. What if Laxman fails in a few matches and Dravid succeeds at 5-6? Will you drop Laxman and bring back Dravid to 3?
--------------------------------
Now stats. I can see that the OP has conveniently taken numbers from 2007...I just wanted to see how Dravid has done at No.3 since beginning of 2009 i.e close to 2 years and results below :-
Dravid since 2009 Jan
Why 2009 you may ask...Because..when we are thinking of making changes, the most recent form is important.
So..since 2009 Jan :-
Dravid averages 57.77
Against :_
Aus - 30.33 ( mind you this does not take into account the runs in 4th innings Bangalore as he did not come at No. 3)
Bangladesh - 115 (away)
NZ - 61.20 (away)
SL - 58.66 ( home and away)
In :-
Bang - 115
India - 74.85
NZ - 61.20
SL - 19.00 ( edited - not mendis series)
So...point is ...Dravid's last 2 years form has not been bad at all...why change anything?
And Birbal, preconceived notion is this from OP ..Even if Dravid does anchor India's run chase and lead her to a victory in Bangalore tomorrow, there should be no change in plans...talk about prejudice...
Over to you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:23:07:22:52 by Shikari Shambu.
I read the OP again to see what facts have been presented to support Dravid being moved down the order...There is a bit of numbers since 2007 which I will come to below. Then quite a few 'opinions' for which you blame me. Let us go to the opinions in OP
1) He surely is not the ideal No. 3 at this time.
This is surely an opinion as my numbers will show below.
2)In fact on several occassions after the openers have provided India with a solid and rapid start, the fall of the wicket and Dravid's entry in the middle has caused the innings to lose momentum, which in turn causes pressure on the rest of the line up. Once the paragon of invincibility he has looked decidedly shaky at the start of most of his innings lately.
Now this called preconceived notion. All of the above is one person's perception. No fact mind you.
3) VVS should be moved down to 3.
Now you are not changing position of 1 player but 2 of them.What makes one think that a) Laxman still wants No.3 and b) he is best suited to play brand new ball if openers fall cheaply considering that he has not had to do that since ages?. What if Laxman fails in a few matches and Dravid succeeds at 5-6? Will you drop Laxman and bring back Dravid to 3?
--------------------------------
Now stats. I can see that the OP has conveniently taken numbers from 2007...I just wanted to see how Dravid has done at No.3 since beginning of 2009 i.e close to 2 years and results below :-
Dravid since 2009 Jan
Why 2009 you may ask...Because..when we are thinking of making changes, the most recent form is important.
So..since 2009 Jan :-
Dravid averages 57.77
Against :_
Aus - 30.33 ( mind you this does not take into account the runs in 4th innings Bangalore as he did not come at No. 3)
Bangladesh - 115 (away)
NZ - 61.20 (away)
SL - 58.66 ( home and away)
In :-
Bang - 115
India - 74.85
NZ - 61.20
SL - 19.00 ( edited - not mendis series)
So...point is ...Dravid's last 2 years form has not been bad at all...why change anything?
And Birbal, preconceived notion is this from OP ..Even if Dravid does anchor India's run chase and lead her to a victory in Bangalore tomorrow, there should be no change in plans...talk about prejudice...
Over to you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:10:23:07:22:52 by Shikari Shambu.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 25/10/2010 22:14
Of course I am expressing my OPINION... this article is not a DICTATE... it is opinion based on facts and relevant conjecture...
To say the OP is idiotic is wrong..unless your definition of idiotic is anything that is "arguable" or "debatable"...
Anyway In the Bangalore win... Dravid WAS DROPPED down the order...so Dhoni already accepted the premise to a certain degree... and so India winning may have more to do with Pujara coming at No. 3 and batting with ease and confidence than with Dravid anchoring the innings...
To say the OP is idiotic is wrong..unless your definition of idiotic is anything that is "arguable" or "debatable"...
Anyway In the Bangalore win... Dravid WAS DROPPED down the order...so Dhoni already accepted the premise to a certain degree... and so India winning may have more to do with Pujara coming at No. 3 and batting with ease and confidence than with Dravid anchoring the innings...
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Shikari Shambu (IP Logged)
Date: 26/10/2010 08:14
Without getting into semantics and choice of words,I have presented facts that support my argument...and rest my case.
And your 3rd para...I can choose to look the moving down he order in a different way but...leave it...we wont go anywhere...
And your 3rd para...I can choose to look the moving down he order in a different way but...leave it...we wont go anywhere...
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 26/10/2010 19:59
No problem with you arguing against dropping Dravid down the order...
However, I don't buy your argument....
However, I don't buy your argument....
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: vishalvirsingh (IP Logged)
Date: 02/11/2010 12:32
Dravid is a very defensive batsman and now a days even in tests the strategy to suceed is to attack all the time.......
pujara scored a quick fire 72 and got out ...in 4th inings when the ball is turning a qucik inings helps.. a solid 30 ball 10 runs would not help as eventually u will get a ball which take ur snick n get u out..in a test 4th inings it is always better to score a quick fire 50 and then get out i mean a quick fire 50 off 30 to 35 balls...dravid plays in one gear all the time and is criticised by all.. when he changes his gear he always gets out.
sachin, ganguly and laxman were talents in there era dravid was one who applied himself the most , he would also do well today but the standard of batting has changed.
during that era scoring at a pace of 3 runs an over in test was doing great guns, in today's era if a partnerships scores 100 runs or 220 ballseven in a test match they are criticised as when they get out and others get out they realise that they were too slow as they scored less though they were at the crease.
wining team scores those runs and a few more and calls the other team for a second ininings.. so cricekt is all about scoring runs and now at a brisk pace of 4 or 4.5...dravid is not for it.
pujara scored a quick fire 72 and got out ...in 4th inings when the ball is turning a qucik inings helps.. a solid 30 ball 10 runs would not help as eventually u will get a ball which take ur snick n get u out..in a test 4th inings it is always better to score a quick fire 50 and then get out i mean a quick fire 50 off 30 to 35 balls...dravid plays in one gear all the time and is criticised by all.. when he changes his gear he always gets out.
sachin, ganguly and laxman were talents in there era dravid was one who applied himself the most , he would also do well today but the standard of batting has changed.
during that era scoring at a pace of 3 runs an over in test was doing great guns, in today's era if a partnerships scores 100 runs or 220 ballseven in a test match they are criticised as when they get out and others get out they realise that they were too slow as they scored less though they were at the crease.
wining team scores those runs and a few more and calls the other team for a second ininings.. so cricekt is all about scoring runs and now at a brisk pace of 4 or 4.5...dravid is not for it.
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 02/11/2010 16:51
Naah...don't buy the logic that scoring at 4.5 runs per over is mandatory in Tests... sometimes it is crucial to bat time...
But the problem with Dravid is that he often comes to a near standstill and that puts uneccessary pressure on the other batsman...if he just rotated and scored at 3 runs per over...that would be fine...
I see him being useful down the order at 5 holding the fort together as Raina, Dhoni, Bhajji and tail bat around him..
But the problem with Dravid is that he often comes to a near standstill and that puts uneccessary pressure on the other batsman...if he just rotated and scored at 3 runs per over...that would be fine...
I see him being useful down the order at 5 holding the fort together as Raina, Dhoni, Bhajji and tail bat around him..
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: amit (IP Logged)
Date: 07/11/2010 08:49
dravid continues to drag himself in the indian team, just like how jayasurya was dragging himself in the sl team
out for 1 in the 2nd innings now. and is too over-dependant on sehwag to score runs. these days dravid scores only in those innings, where sehwag makes 100+ scores. even in 1st innings, he was crawling at 15 sr and opened up only when the team score was 200+
its time dravid was kicked out and murali vijay/pujara replaced him
out for 1 in the 2nd innings now. and is too over-dependant on sehwag to score runs. these days dravid scores only in those innings, where sehwag makes 100+ scores. even in 1st innings, he was crawling at 15 sr and opened up only when the team score was 200+
its time dravid was kicked out and murali vijay/pujara replaced him
Re: Drop Dravid Now!
Posted by: Shikari Shambu (IP Logged)
Date: 07/11/2010 18:38
Humble request for all family members of ICF for their views here
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