ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
By Gaurang
September 9 2012
The English press has been scathing in its criticism of Kevin Pietersen, and some even have been a bit balanced and also found fault with the two Andys, Strauss and Flower, while questioning the apparent double standard of the ECB in dealing with players, such as Stuart Broad and Greame Swann. But none has identified the root of the problem. The root of the problem is the ECB itself.
The ECB has been in a war (albeit a cold war as they cannot afford a hot one) with the BCCI ever since the BCCI established the Indian Premiere League, and decided that the best time of the year to hold it was during the Summer vacation of Indian school kids, i.e April and May. This did not sit well with the ECB who found this to be encroaching on what they have always regarded as their God given right, a completely uniterrupted home season.
In the distant past the West Indies cricket board pleaded unsuccessfully with the MCC and later the TCCB to provide some sort of break for West Indies players who plyed their trade for the West Indies the rest of the year and instead of resting during the West Indies off season, many of whom, went off to play County cricket, often sacrificing their bodies in a 7 days a week grind, including the first class matches plus multiple limited over tournaments. But most of this fell on deaf ears, as it was argued that it was upto the players themselves, and they had a right to make a living.
Now the shoe is on the other foot. The ECB is arguing that the IPL should not be granted an uniterrupted window to rope in the top players of the world, including the handful of English players who are good enough to play in the high stakes league. In fact the EBC has been desperately trying to reduce the influence of the IPL, which it sees as a threat to its own pocketbook. The ECB had preponed the English season to late April, thus ensuring even more conflict with the IPL. In the past, the ECB rushed into the ultimately abortive, and now highly embarrasing dalliance with convicted felon Allen Stanford to fund a rival league to the IPL, and now is attemping largely unsuccessfully to attract the big fish of Indian cricket to play in its county based local Twenty20 league.
The BCCI has not been blameless in this war either. In fact, several other big IPL stars such as Chris Gayle also gave the English T20s the cold shoulder. And though the excuse has been injury and the need for rest, the implication is clear, the BCCI doesn't want the ECB league to take off internationally at all. If it attracts local crowds fine, but on the global scale the BCCI will not tolerate competition from ECB. The ECB had been smarting even more from this slap in their face, because other boards, such as those of Australia and South Africa have done deals with BCCI and now share some of the IPL and Champions League bounty directly.
This embittered the ECB even more and with the tacit support of the English press and specifically the BBC it has convinced a large portion of the U.K. public that the IPL is just a bunch of Bollywood crazed Indians having a hit and giggle which the English speaking population of the U.K. should not be interested in. Though cynically they give MASSIVE coverge to the IPL through the BBC Hindi and Urdu sites.
This on going fight between the ECB and BCCI continued last year when India toured. The BCCI's refusal to allow DRS in the Test series was attacked viciously by the home press, without any semblance of giving the BCCI point of view a fair hearing. Then the ECB prepared wickets that were highly favorable to the home team for the Test series, and that in combination with an Indian captain who was ill suited for leading the team overseas saw India humiliated 0-4 and toppled from the No. 1 position. For a while the ECB must have felt pretty good. But this battle is about to go nuclear when England visit India. It is a fair bet that the pitches will be highly suited to Indian spinners, and unless England counter with a massive spin offensive of their own, they are likely to go down just has humiliatingly.
In light of all this the whole ECB-Pietersen mess can be seen as a continuation of this blood fued between the ECB and BCCI. Pietersen, as one of the highest paid players in the IPL, and a strong proponent of the tournament, was targeted by his "home" board who did nothing when a whisper campaign by jealous teammates launched via a fake twitter account poisoned the dressing room atmosphere and unity. And when Pietersen rightly complained, instead of promptly cleaning up the mess, the ECB saw a good opportunity to show the other English players who was boss. It wanted these lesser lights to know that if they wanted to continue playing for England, they had to choose between IPL and their National loyalties. This is truly a cynical approach, and one that is likey to end with the ECB cutting its own nose to spite its own face. Even with Kevin Pietersen, defending World Twenty20 Champions England are not likely to repeat their performance this time in hostile conditons of Sri Lanka, but without him, their chances are virtually nil.
Until and unless the ECB realizes that it's job is not only to run English cricket, but also to ensure that English players are not shut out of the economic opportunities offered by the ever strengthening and growing IPL, they will do both English cricket and English players a huge disservice, as they will be the root cause of the continuting turmoil in English cricket.
ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Indian Cricket Fever (IP Logged)
Date: 09/09/2012 22:22
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:24:20:13:27 by Birbal.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:24:20:13:27 by Birbal.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 11/09/2012 16:09
Birbal very well written & covered all true facts.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 11/09/2012 18:44
Thanks Atul... I tried to put in bigger picture and prespective...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 12/09/2012 06:38
Besides Gayle, Shakib al Hasan and Lasith Malinga also pulled out of English County T20... there may have been a couple of other big name pull outs...
It is WAR minus the shooting between ECB and BCCI...
It is WAR minus the shooting between ECB and BCCI...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 12/09/2012 20:29
Yes it is fight between ECB/BCCI ,in the future if BCCI is run by weak management then ECB will make sure to have pie form IPL for their support.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Sennen Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 13/09/2012 12:23
Interesting read Birbal. Very well written, even if I will openly admit to not agreeing with several parts of it, doesn't mean to say I can't appreciate the writing and also the differences in opinions concerning ours and your views of the IPL.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 13/09/2012 17:29
Thanks Sennen Lad. What parts do you not agree with? It would be interesting to hear your viewpoint, and maybe you can convince me to your way of thinking...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Sennen Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 14/09/2012 12:48
Ok, but you should know I'm not here to start an argument over who's right and who's wrong, I'm simply putting my opinion out seeing as you've kindly asked for it.
To begin with I do not believe that the ECB is the cause of the current problem. The Board isn't perfect by any means, and its petty arguments with the BCCI and its childish antics in attempting to get back at them by starting up a competition with Allan Stanford illustrate this perfectly, however one of the major steps forward in attempting to make England a better managed cricket team over the last 10years or so has been the introduction of Central Contracts.
Now whether anyone thinks they're now restrictive in terms of what those who own them can/can't do is largely immaterial as these are the rules which every member of the squad is signing up to, aside of course from Kevin Pietersen.
I honestly don't remember hearing the ECB saying that they are opposed to the IPL having an uninterrupted window. The simple fact is that every other country is open to having this time of year aside for the tournament because it doesn't coincide with their domestic season. We in England unfortunately can't change the start of spring simply because it coincides with the start of someone else's domestic competition. It's fact that April/May is springtime in the UK and therefore it's cricket season, which therefore prohibits our players from taking part.
As part of its contract with Sky television in the UK, there is currently a test series, usually of two matches, sometimes three, played during May and early June. The ECB, quite rightly in my opinion, views international matches such as test series, as more important than the IPL, and therefore requires all of its centrally contracted players to be available to play in those matches. It does not allow players to pick and choose when or where they play for their country.
I agree with this, not out of any distaste for the IPL, the BCCI, Indian Cricket or the Indian people. I'm extremely fortunate enough to be married to an Indian lady, and have therefore inherited some wonderful Indian in-laws with whom I banter about cricket all of the time. I agree with this because I simply believe that test cricket is the highest form of the sport that any player can attain to, and that the star names in the IPL are only now making their money from the performances they have made in test cricket. (I'm sure there will be someone who will point out I am wrong, but again I state that this is my opinion!!)
The ECB don't stop their players from taking part, simply that they insist that they are fit and available for any England matches which are played at that time.
As regards the ECB preparing wickets that suited our players last summer, that surely is what 'home advantage' is all about? Other countries such as yourselves have been doing it for years and having seen the abject way our batsmen played Ajmal & Co last year then you would be extremely foolish not to prepare wickets which are likely to make their lives as uncomfortable as possible when we come over in November.
As regards the DRS, my opinion is that countries shouldn't be allowed to pick & choose whether they use it or not. As in sports such as tennis or rugby, if the governing bodies say that this is the system that is to be used, then I believe that everybody should have to use it. Although I do agree that there are several inconsistencies which do need addressing, I think that's more with the finer details rather than the concept of the system itself.
In summary, I believe that whilst both sides are at fault for not sorting this mess out sooner, it was Pietsersen himself who brought on himself from the beginning. His comment that "It's tough being me playing for England" was breathtaking in its arrogance, and if he did send text messages about Strauss to members of the SA team then by general consensus he was completely wrong to do so.
What he needs to do in my opinion is make his mind up as to what he wants to be remembered for. Is it as an International player, the quality of I've never seen play in an England shirt before, scoring record numbers of international runs etc, or does he want to go off and ply his trade around the world earning millions of dollars playing in T20 competitions? I believe that if he sticks with international cricket first and foremost, then the financial rewards that he craves so much will come his way just the same.
Thanks for listening to my waffle....and like I say I'm not going to get into a slanging match with anyone if they disagree with me or not, I'm not here to make enemies with anyone!!!
To begin with I do not believe that the ECB is the cause of the current problem. The Board isn't perfect by any means, and its petty arguments with the BCCI and its childish antics in attempting to get back at them by starting up a competition with Allan Stanford illustrate this perfectly, however one of the major steps forward in attempting to make England a better managed cricket team over the last 10years or so has been the introduction of Central Contracts.
Now whether anyone thinks they're now restrictive in terms of what those who own them can/can't do is largely immaterial as these are the rules which every member of the squad is signing up to, aside of course from Kevin Pietersen.
I honestly don't remember hearing the ECB saying that they are opposed to the IPL having an uninterrupted window. The simple fact is that every other country is open to having this time of year aside for the tournament because it doesn't coincide with their domestic season. We in England unfortunately can't change the start of spring simply because it coincides with the start of someone else's domestic competition. It's fact that April/May is springtime in the UK and therefore it's cricket season, which therefore prohibits our players from taking part.
As part of its contract with Sky television in the UK, there is currently a test series, usually of two matches, sometimes three, played during May and early June. The ECB, quite rightly in my opinion, views international matches such as test series, as more important than the IPL, and therefore requires all of its centrally contracted players to be available to play in those matches. It does not allow players to pick and choose when or where they play for their country.
I agree with this, not out of any distaste for the IPL, the BCCI, Indian Cricket or the Indian people. I'm extremely fortunate enough to be married to an Indian lady, and have therefore inherited some wonderful Indian in-laws with whom I banter about cricket all of the time. I agree with this because I simply believe that test cricket is the highest form of the sport that any player can attain to, and that the star names in the IPL are only now making their money from the performances they have made in test cricket. (I'm sure there will be someone who will point out I am wrong, but again I state that this is my opinion!!)
The ECB don't stop their players from taking part, simply that they insist that they are fit and available for any England matches which are played at that time.
As regards the ECB preparing wickets that suited our players last summer, that surely is what 'home advantage' is all about? Other countries such as yourselves have been doing it for years and having seen the abject way our batsmen played Ajmal & Co last year then you would be extremely foolish not to prepare wickets which are likely to make their lives as uncomfortable as possible when we come over in November.
As regards the DRS, my opinion is that countries shouldn't be allowed to pick & choose whether they use it or not. As in sports such as tennis or rugby, if the governing bodies say that this is the system that is to be used, then I believe that everybody should have to use it. Although I do agree that there are several inconsistencies which do need addressing, I think that's more with the finer details rather than the concept of the system itself.
In summary, I believe that whilst both sides are at fault for not sorting this mess out sooner, it was Pietsersen himself who brought on himself from the beginning. His comment that "It's tough being me playing for England" was breathtaking in its arrogance, and if he did send text messages about Strauss to members of the SA team then by general consensus he was completely wrong to do so.
What he needs to do in my opinion is make his mind up as to what he wants to be remembered for. Is it as an International player, the quality of I've never seen play in an England shirt before, scoring record numbers of international runs etc, or does he want to go off and ply his trade around the world earning millions of dollars playing in T20 competitions? I believe that if he sticks with international cricket first and foremost, then the financial rewards that he craves so much will come his way just the same.
Thanks for listening to my waffle....and like I say I'm not going to get into a slanging match with anyone if they disagree with me or not, I'm not here to make enemies with anyone!!!
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 14/09/2012 17:28
A well written cogent and clear argument for a different point of view... how refreshing!
Anyway, as you said April/May is spring and start of cricket season in England...but if I recall correctly, County cricket never actually got started till May in the past... but now it seems to have been pushed earlier. It may be that the ECB want to squeeze in more cricket (more types, as well as more of each type) into a season, but it seems awfully cooincidental that it happened just as the IPL settled on April/May as the ideal time period for the league.
Another point I have, is that the early matches, i.e. the May Tests are usually against the weaker sides... used to be India and New Zealand, now it is Bangladesh, New Zealand, West Indies, and maybe Zimbabwe (if cricketing ties are restored with them)...so if some key players miss it and play IPL it should not be a big issue.
In the past teams used to be sent to India from England that lacked many of the big guns... I don't recall Fred Trueman or John Snow ever playing a Test in India, and Geoffrey Boycott only decided to tour once because he was chasing records and once he achieved his goal, he promptly quit the tour in the early 1980s, packed his bags and went home. So this picking and choosing has been going on for quite a while. Only now the picking and choosing is being done by others not the ECB (the successor to the MCC TCCB )...
I think, for instance if ECB and management had been more flexible about KP's work load, this mess would not have blown up... but some in the England team were probably jealous of KP and thinking he was getting "special" treatment if he was allowed to pick and chose which games he would play... that could have been nipped in the bud by management and ECB but was allowed to fester...hence the Parody Twitter account and all the mud slinging and airing of dirty laundry that followed....
As for DRS, I think it should be tried and tested at the lower level (first class cricket) to work the kinks out before being imposed on every country. There should be healthy scepticism of the technology. It is ironic that the BCCI is now the voice of conservatism and tradition which used to be what the ECB and CA used to be. Anyway, I think there are enough problems with the technology itself and how it is interpreted and applied that makes India's opposition to it valid. In the past India has been the victim of "bias" from the panel of Elite umpires, so if DRS actually worked both in improving decision making and eliminating "bias" they would logically be the first in support. Unfortunately there is ample evidence neither has DRS improved decision making for the close contentious decisions, though it has helped largely to eliminate the out and out howlers (though even that is not always the case) and it certainly has not eliminated "bias" as perceived by Indian players and fans...
If you want to read more about what I think of the DRS and the problems it faces read the article from the archive that I wrote a while ago...
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:14:17:41:45 by Birbal.
Anyway, as you said April/May is spring and start of cricket season in England...but if I recall correctly, County cricket never actually got started till May in the past... but now it seems to have been pushed earlier. It may be that the ECB want to squeeze in more cricket (more types, as well as more of each type) into a season, but it seems awfully cooincidental that it happened just as the IPL settled on April/May as the ideal time period for the league.
Another point I have, is that the early matches, i.e. the May Tests are usually against the weaker sides... used to be India and New Zealand, now it is Bangladesh, New Zealand, West Indies, and maybe Zimbabwe (if cricketing ties are restored with them)...so if some key players miss it and play IPL it should not be a big issue.
In the past teams used to be sent to India from England that lacked many of the big guns... I don't recall Fred Trueman or John Snow ever playing a Test in India, and Geoffrey Boycott only decided to tour once because he was chasing records and once he achieved his goal, he promptly quit the tour in the early 1980s, packed his bags and went home. So this picking and choosing has been going on for quite a while. Only now the picking and choosing is being done by others not the ECB (the successor to the MCC TCCB )...
I think, for instance if ECB and management had been more flexible about KP's work load, this mess would not have blown up... but some in the England team were probably jealous of KP and thinking he was getting "special" treatment if he was allowed to pick and chose which games he would play... that could have been nipped in the bud by management and ECB but was allowed to fester...hence the Parody Twitter account and all the mud slinging and airing of dirty laundry that followed....
As for DRS, I think it should be tried and tested at the lower level (first class cricket) to work the kinks out before being imposed on every country. There should be healthy scepticism of the technology. It is ironic that the BCCI is now the voice of conservatism and tradition which used to be what the ECB and CA used to be. Anyway, I think there are enough problems with the technology itself and how it is interpreted and applied that makes India's opposition to it valid. In the past India has been the victim of "bias" from the panel of Elite umpires, so if DRS actually worked both in improving decision making and eliminating "bias" they would logically be the first in support. Unfortunately there is ample evidence neither has DRS improved decision making for the close contentious decisions, though it has helped largely to eliminate the out and out howlers (though even that is not always the case) and it certainly has not eliminated "bias" as perceived by Indian players and fans...
If you want to read more about what I think of the DRS and the problems it faces read the article from the archive that I wrote a while ago...
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012:09:14:17:41:45 by Birbal.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Sennen Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 17/09/2012 08:22
The English county season has always begun in April to be honest. Some of the traditional University matches used to start around mid-April, with the MCC/County Champions match around the same sort of time.
It has been magnified in the last couple of seasons because the ECB has, for some reason, set aside the whole of June for our domestic T20 competition. With the number of games in the 4 day County Championship not being reduced, and the season having to be finished for the T20 World Cup and also the Champions League, then this season we started ridiculously early in terms of the actual meaningful matches. I’m sure it might seem like it, but it’s nothing to do with an arm wrestle with the BCCI or the IPL.
As for the picking & choosing, yes I agree that players have opted out of tours in the past, and yes the tests played in the first half of our summer are against those countries which aren’t as big a draw at the ticket office as those who we play later in the summer, BUT I still firmly believe that playing test cricket for your country should take precedence over playing in what is effectively another country’s own domestic competition! Test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport. This might seem a very old fashioned view of cricket, and hold out the stereotypical view that us English are a bunch of old stick in the muds etc etc….but as I said previously, the bigger names players in the IPL are earning their money through the reputations they have got from the achievements they’ve had by playing test cricket!!!
I agree that the needs to be some flexibility, and I’m sure in some quarters of the ECB there might be some jealousy at the BCCI’s ability to pick up the baton of the form of cricket that was effectively presented to the world by the ECB, but we’ve missed out on the T20 bonanza in this country. Our domestic tournament is badly in need of a revamp, and whilst the IPL is far too long in its format, its marketing is far more effective than ours is.
As for the fake Twitter account, well I think that KP needs to grow up and get a sense of humour about that one I’m afraid. There’s plenty of mickey taking in life, especially around a team environment such as a cricket dressing room, and whilst I agree that there’s a line that shouldn’t get crossed as regards disrespecting someone else, I find it ironic that KP himself retweeted some of the things said on that account, and all seemed fine until his mate Piers Morgan got involved with him.
It has been magnified in the last couple of seasons because the ECB has, for some reason, set aside the whole of June for our domestic T20 competition. With the number of games in the 4 day County Championship not being reduced, and the season having to be finished for the T20 World Cup and also the Champions League, then this season we started ridiculously early in terms of the actual meaningful matches. I’m sure it might seem like it, but it’s nothing to do with an arm wrestle with the BCCI or the IPL.
As for the picking & choosing, yes I agree that players have opted out of tours in the past, and yes the tests played in the first half of our summer are against those countries which aren’t as big a draw at the ticket office as those who we play later in the summer, BUT I still firmly believe that playing test cricket for your country should take precedence over playing in what is effectively another country’s own domestic competition! Test cricket is the pinnacle of the sport. This might seem a very old fashioned view of cricket, and hold out the stereotypical view that us English are a bunch of old stick in the muds etc etc….but as I said previously, the bigger names players in the IPL are earning their money through the reputations they have got from the achievements they’ve had by playing test cricket!!!
I agree that the needs to be some flexibility, and I’m sure in some quarters of the ECB there might be some jealousy at the BCCI’s ability to pick up the baton of the form of cricket that was effectively presented to the world by the ECB, but we’ve missed out on the T20 bonanza in this country. Our domestic tournament is badly in need of a revamp, and whilst the IPL is far too long in its format, its marketing is far more effective than ours is.
As for the fake Twitter account, well I think that KP needs to grow up and get a sense of humour about that one I’m afraid. There’s plenty of mickey taking in life, especially around a team environment such as a cricket dressing room, and whilst I agree that there’s a line that shouldn’t get crossed as regards disrespecting someone else, I find it ironic that KP himself retweeted some of the things said on that account, and all seemed fine until his mate Piers Morgan got involved with him.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: shilpa (IP Logged)
Date: 17/09/2012 15:12
KP case has been a classic cut the nose to spite the face done by ECB.
In hindi there is a saying "Rassi Jal gayi per Bal nahin gaye"....also applies aptly to ecb
In hindi there is a saying "Rassi Jal gayi per Bal nahin gaye"....also applies aptly to ecb
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2012 17:08
The ongoing KP saga...including the pompous pronouncements of the ECB...confirm THEY ARE THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2012 19:52
Quote:Birbal
This did not sit well with the ECB who found this to be encroaching on what they have always regarded as their God given right, a completely uniterrupted home season.
Perhaps they are asking questions of the God given right to hold the IPL in April and May.
Quote:Birbal
Now the shoe is on the other foot. The ECB is arguing that the IPL should not be granted an uniterrupted window to rope in the top players of the world, including the handful of English players who are good enough to play in the high stakes league.
How is this the shoe being on the other foot? Was the English domestic season granted a window? EVER?
Quote:Birbal
The ECB had preponed the English season to late April, thus ensuring even more conflict with the IPL.
I am sure I have countered this being untrue and that they have always had the English season start around this time, way before Twenty20 cricket was invented, at least a dozen times with you. Never once countered. Yet, without due diligence and an iota of research, you find it good enough to put in an article?
Quote:Birbal
the BBC it has convinced a large portion of the U.K. public that the IPL is just a bunch of Bollywood crazed Indians having a hit and giggle which the English speaking population of the U.K. should not be interested in.
That is the equivalent of calling the English audience idiots, collectively. And is uncalled for. I am sure they can make up their own minds by simply watching what is on display.
Quote:Birbal
The BCCI's refusal to allow DRS in the Test series was attacked viciously by the home press, without any semblance of giving the BCCI point of view a fair hearing.
The BCCI did not have a point of view!! If they did, we would have heard it by now. Simple as that.
Quote:Birbal
Then the ECB prepared wickets that were highly favorable to the home team for the Test series
Please tell us how. And what kinda pitches were they exactly? And why exactly were they "highly favorable" to the English?
Quote:Birbal
Until and unless the ECB realizes that it's job is not only to run English cricket, but also to ensure that English players are not shut out of the economic opportunities offered by the ever strengthening and growing IPL, they will do both English cricket and English players a huge disservice, as they will be the root cause of the continuting turmoil in English cricket.
The ECB's PRIMARY job is to run English cricket and make it even more flourishing. EVERYthing else you mention comes second. Which means, it first makes sure that all players play for England first, and only in their spare time do they play for anyone else - be it for economic reasons or even if purely out of spite.
As for "lowly" teams like Ban, Zim and WI, how easily we forget the time when India used to languish there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:04:19:56:37 by audioman.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 05:44
Let me respond to audioman...his quotes in plain text, my responses in bold...
Perhaps they are asking questions of the God given right to hold the IPL in April and May.
Who are ECB to question anything about IPL?
How is this the shoe being on the other foot? Was the English domestic season granted a window? EVER?
It had a de facto window... and so maybe does the IPL...but ECB certainly doesn't like it...now that the shoe is on the other foot
I am sure I have countered this being untrue and that they have always had the English season start around this time, way before Twenty20 cricket was invented, at least a dozen times with you. Never once countered. Yet, without due diligence and an iota of research, you find it good enough to put in an
YOU need to do some elementary RESEARCH...before accusing others of not doing an iota of research...
From respected Journal The Cricketer:
County cricket will make its earliest ever start in 2012 following the announcement by the England and Wales Cricket Board of next season’s fixture schedule. The first round of first-class games start on Saturday March 31 with a series of matches involving the MCC Universities teams against county opposition.
As the list below shows, the start of the domestic first-class season has steadily moved forward in the course of the last fifty years from the end of April towards the first week of the month. Now in 2012, it will break entirely new ground by moving into the end of March.
Season Date of opening first-class match
2012 March 31
2002 April 13
1992 April 13
1982 April 21
1972 April 22
1962 April 28
1952 April 30
As far as the LV=County Championship is concerned, the first batch of matches will commence on Thursday April 5, also surpassing the previous earliest starting date of April 8 set last summer.
By the end of May – one of the traditional yardsticks for early season form – most county teams will have completed half of their programme in the four-day competition. This means that the achievement of scoring 1,000 first-class runs before the end of May could be very much ‘on’ if a batsman enjoys a decent purple patch and if the weather, as it did in 2011 and 2010, remains fair in the early part of the season.
If April and May are again largely dry, somebody could emulate the historically rare feat achieved by the likes of Don Bradman, Wally Hammond and WG Grace and most recently registered in 1988 by Worcestershire’s Graeme Hick.
That is the equivalent of calling the English audience idiots, collectively. And is uncalled for. I am sure they can make up their own minds by simply watching what is on display.
Yes, that is what the BBC is doing...not me...calling the English audience idiots...otherwise why would they NOT cover the MOST POPULAR Cricket event in the world on their English language site...but cynically cover it on their South Asian site...Maybe they think that those silly Asians...they will follow the bollywood hit and giggle "Tamasha"...but not the rest of the Britons?
The BCCI did not have a point of view!! If they did, we would have heard it by now. Simple as that.
Once again YOU need to do some reasearch instead of spouting off...
Oh well I will once again do it FOR YOU...you can thank me later...
The BCCI on DRS
Labels: BCCI, DRS, Technology
This week the BCCI has built on some of the arguments that have hitherto been attributed to it and India's players with respect to the Decision Review System. Niranjan Shah, at one time the Secretary of the BCCI (a successor to the powerful and comical J Y Lele) and now a Vice President of BCCI makes a detailed and coherent argument on DNA. You may or may not agree with it, but unlike the totally arbitrary, unsupported statement from Dave Richardson ("The level of believability in ball-tracking systems has improved"), Mr. Shah has actually offered an argument - a rationale, which we have some way of assessing. Earlier this week, a report by Lokendra Pratap Sahi about DRS included a clarification by BCCI that it “does not accept the reliability of the ball-tracking technology, which is an integral part of the DRS.”. It is worth going into what Mr. Shah says in some detail.
Mr. Shah basically makes the following claims:
1. DRS is not foolproof, or 100% accurate. The gains through DRS are marginal, and the costs of the system does not justify such marginal gains.
2. The system requires about $ 60,000 per day. There were 65 Tests and 170 ODIs played last year. The DRS bill would come to about $30 million based on such a rate.
3. There is currently no competition amongst vendors of technology.
4. Cricket has survived despite partisan umpires, and for Mr. Shah, the human element must be preserved.
5. The Player Review limits the number of times DRS can be used. For all this money, it doesn't even work all the time. Once a side has exhausted its reviews, subsequent errors continue to go unchecked.
It goes on. I recommend a careful, critical reading.
Mr. Shah is most incisive when he goes after the ICC for preventing competition. The ICC Cricket Committee's review of DRS has been a joke. There was no independent assessment, and only 1 of the vendors made a presentation. Mr. Stephen Carter. This cannot be stressed enough. The ICC has not seriously, independently, evaluated ball-tracking technology.
The one area where I disagree with Mr. Shah is in his pessimism related to use of technology to look for obvious mistakes. It is possible to use it, and some of the technology for DRS is already in place even in situations where DRS is not used. For example, ball-tracking is available in the West Indies even though DRS is not being used.
While BCCI may have a good argument against DRS, it will serve them well if they propose an alternative to improving decision making and using technology to do so. But they have, as of now, made more coherent arguments in the debate than the ICC (through Mr. Richardson or Mr. Lorgat or anybody else) or the ECB or anybody else.
Here's the extent of the arguments offered by most people (not all, there are some exceptions) who support DRS.
First, it is claimed that DRS should be used in its current form because it is good for the game. Why is it good for the game? Because it improves decision making. Does it do so efficiently? Here the answer has to be mixed in the face of 3 years of tested and accumulated evidence. The argument usually comes down to a final, so far unanswerable question from my position - Why should DRS still be used in its current form if it is a bad way to solve a stated problem?
For the England players, it has been a simple equation. DRS is good because they get more decisions. Remarkably, a lot of cricket writers think this is a reasonable argument!
Given my plea for a debate about DRS, Mr. Shah's arguments have been a pleasant surprise. He has presented the economic side of things - a side which I knew nothing about so far. That is a fine contribution.
Now if only Mr. Richardson could publish a long 6000 word article detailing the history of the development of DRS, and explaining why it has occured according to highest, most rigorous standards of developing a information technology solution.
If only!
Then the ECB prepared wickets that were highly favorable to the home team for the Test series
Yes, they had a lot of grass on them and had good amount of bounce...this favors late lateral movement off the pitch...
Of course India could have exploited it better... and Praveen Kumar did exploit it well but not Ishant and Sreesanth.. and certainly not RP Singh...and they could have batted better... so I am not blaming the pitches for the 0-4 result...but clearly India would be well within its right to prepare dusty turners when England visit... If Swann and Panesar can exploit it better than Ashwin, Ohja, etc... more power to them....
The ECB's PRIMARY job is to run English cricket and make it even more flourishing. EVERYthing else you mention comes second. Which means, it first makes sure that all players play for England first, and only in their spare time do they play for anyone else - be it for economic reasons or even if purely out of spite.
Hahaaa... So it is in England's interest to SIT OUT their best batsman...and biggest match winner...and drop from No. 1 in Tests, and Twenty20 ...Yeah right!!!.. The ECB is jealous of the BCCI and its success with the IPL and is simply using KP and others as pawns in their petty fight with BCCI....any person with half a brain can see that...
As for "lowly" teams like Ban, Zim and WI, how easily we forget the time when India used to languish there.
Well I do say in the article it used to be India...so don't know what you are getting so upset about...?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:05:06:36:00 by Birbal.
Perhaps they are asking questions of the God given right to hold the IPL in April and May.
Who are ECB to question anything about IPL?
How is this the shoe being on the other foot? Was the English domestic season granted a window? EVER?
It had a de facto window... and so maybe does the IPL...but ECB certainly doesn't like it...now that the shoe is on the other foot
I am sure I have countered this being untrue and that they have always had the English season start around this time, way before Twenty20 cricket was invented, at least a dozen times with you. Never once countered. Yet, without due diligence and an iota of research, you find it good enough to put in an
YOU need to do some elementary RESEARCH...before accusing others of not doing an iota of research...
From respected Journal The Cricketer:
County cricket will make its earliest ever start in 2012 following the announcement by the England and Wales Cricket Board of next season’s fixture schedule. The first round of first-class games start on Saturday March 31 with a series of matches involving the MCC Universities teams against county opposition.
As the list below shows, the start of the domestic first-class season has steadily moved forward in the course of the last fifty years from the end of April towards the first week of the month. Now in 2012, it will break entirely new ground by moving into the end of March.
Season Date of opening first-class match
2012 March 31
2002 April 13
1992 April 13
1982 April 21
1972 April 22
1962 April 28
1952 April 30
As far as the LV=County Championship is concerned, the first batch of matches will commence on Thursday April 5, also surpassing the previous earliest starting date of April 8 set last summer.
By the end of May – one of the traditional yardsticks for early season form – most county teams will have completed half of their programme in the four-day competition. This means that the achievement of scoring 1,000 first-class runs before the end of May could be very much ‘on’ if a batsman enjoys a decent purple patch and if the weather, as it did in 2011 and 2010, remains fair in the early part of the season.
If April and May are again largely dry, somebody could emulate the historically rare feat achieved by the likes of Don Bradman, Wally Hammond and WG Grace and most recently registered in 1988 by Worcestershire’s Graeme Hick.
That is the equivalent of calling the English audience idiots, collectively. And is uncalled for. I am sure they can make up their own minds by simply watching what is on display.
Yes, that is what the BBC is doing...not me...calling the English audience idiots...otherwise why would they NOT cover the MOST POPULAR Cricket event in the world on their English language site...but cynically cover it on their South Asian site...Maybe they think that those silly Asians...they will follow the bollywood hit and giggle "Tamasha"...but not the rest of the Britons?
The BCCI did not have a point of view!! If they did, we would have heard it by now. Simple as that.
Once again YOU need to do some reasearch instead of spouting off...
Oh well I will once again do it FOR YOU...you can thank me later...
The BCCI on DRS
Labels: BCCI, DRS, Technology
This week the BCCI has built on some of the arguments that have hitherto been attributed to it and India's players with respect to the Decision Review System. Niranjan Shah, at one time the Secretary of the BCCI (a successor to the powerful and comical J Y Lele) and now a Vice President of BCCI makes a detailed and coherent argument on DNA. You may or may not agree with it, but unlike the totally arbitrary, unsupported statement from Dave Richardson ("The level of believability in ball-tracking systems has improved"), Mr. Shah has actually offered an argument - a rationale, which we have some way of assessing. Earlier this week, a report by Lokendra Pratap Sahi about DRS included a clarification by BCCI that it “does not accept the reliability of the ball-tracking technology, which is an integral part of the DRS.”. It is worth going into what Mr. Shah says in some detail.
Mr. Shah basically makes the following claims:
1. DRS is not foolproof, or 100% accurate. The gains through DRS are marginal, and the costs of the system does not justify such marginal gains.
2. The system requires about $ 60,000 per day. There were 65 Tests and 170 ODIs played last year. The DRS bill would come to about $30 million based on such a rate.
3. There is currently no competition amongst vendors of technology.
4. Cricket has survived despite partisan umpires, and for Mr. Shah, the human element must be preserved.
5. The Player Review limits the number of times DRS can be used. For all this money, it doesn't even work all the time. Once a side has exhausted its reviews, subsequent errors continue to go unchecked.
It goes on. I recommend a careful, critical reading.
Mr. Shah is most incisive when he goes after the ICC for preventing competition. The ICC Cricket Committee's review of DRS has been a joke. There was no independent assessment, and only 1 of the vendors made a presentation. Mr. Stephen Carter. This cannot be stressed enough. The ICC has not seriously, independently, evaluated ball-tracking technology.
The one area where I disagree with Mr. Shah is in his pessimism related to use of technology to look for obvious mistakes. It is possible to use it, and some of the technology for DRS is already in place even in situations where DRS is not used. For example, ball-tracking is available in the West Indies even though DRS is not being used.
While BCCI may have a good argument against DRS, it will serve them well if they propose an alternative to improving decision making and using technology to do so. But they have, as of now, made more coherent arguments in the debate than the ICC (through Mr. Richardson or Mr. Lorgat or anybody else) or the ECB or anybody else.
Here's the extent of the arguments offered by most people (not all, there are some exceptions) who support DRS.
First, it is claimed that DRS should be used in its current form because it is good for the game. Why is it good for the game? Because it improves decision making. Does it do so efficiently? Here the answer has to be mixed in the face of 3 years of tested and accumulated evidence. The argument usually comes down to a final, so far unanswerable question from my position - Why should DRS still be used in its current form if it is a bad way to solve a stated problem?
For the England players, it has been a simple equation. DRS is good because they get more decisions. Remarkably, a lot of cricket writers think this is a reasonable argument!
Given my plea for a debate about DRS, Mr. Shah's arguments have been a pleasant surprise. He has presented the economic side of things - a side which I knew nothing about so far. That is a fine contribution.
Now if only Mr. Richardson could publish a long 6000 word article detailing the history of the development of DRS, and explaining why it has occured according to highest, most rigorous standards of developing a information technology solution.
If only!
Then the ECB prepared wickets that were highly favorable to the home team for the Test series
Yes, they had a lot of grass on them and had good amount of bounce...this favors late lateral movement off the pitch...
Of course India could have exploited it better... and Praveen Kumar did exploit it well but not Ishant and Sreesanth.. and certainly not RP Singh...and they could have batted better... so I am not blaming the pitches for the 0-4 result...but clearly India would be well within its right to prepare dusty turners when England visit... If Swann and Panesar can exploit it better than Ashwin, Ohja, etc... more power to them....
The ECB's PRIMARY job is to run English cricket and make it even more flourishing. EVERYthing else you mention comes second. Which means, it first makes sure that all players play for England first, and only in their spare time do they play for anyone else - be it for economic reasons or even if purely out of spite.
Hahaaa... So it is in England's interest to SIT OUT their best batsman...and biggest match winner...and drop from No. 1 in Tests, and Twenty20 ...Yeah right!!!.. The ECB is jealous of the BCCI and its success with the IPL and is simply using KP and others as pawns in their petty fight with BCCI....any person with half a brain can see that...
As for "lowly" teams like Ban, Zim and WI, how easily we forget the time when India used to languish there.
Well I do say in the article it used to be India...so don't know what you are getting so upset about...?
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:05:06:36:00 by Birbal.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 06:29
Actually I did mis-state one thing in the article... I said the ECB had preponed the season to late April... HA!... what I should have said is it has preponed it to late MARCH!!!...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 17:56
bolti band ... naa .. Dum kahbi seedhi nahi hongi
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: apple (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 18:28
Don't bother Audioman, it's not worth the hassle. Birbal has moved into Shilpa's "glass house of hatred" and all he does is spew nonsense and venom.
Can remember when this site had plenty of traffic and had numerous regular posters offering divergent and interesting viewpoints on cricket matters. Even AnuD's Ganguly worship was sometimes amusing.
Now with AnuD back in her new guise Shilpa, the site is just her and Birbal having a little hate-in.
It's not surprising the site is so empty now.
To be honest, most of their posts read like something copy-pasted from an Al- Qaeda recruiting forum and have more to do with revisionist reconstruction of Post Colonial power relationships, or something, than they have to do with cricket.
Apple: Ignoring Shilpa since 27/3/2012 and Birbal (temporarily replying to him since there's no one else here 26/10/2015) since 16/8/2012
Can remember when this site had plenty of traffic and had numerous regular posters offering divergent and interesting viewpoints on cricket matters. Even AnuD's Ganguly worship was sometimes amusing.
Now with AnuD back in her new guise Shilpa, the site is just her and Birbal having a little hate-in.
It's not surprising the site is so empty now.
To be honest, most of their posts read like something copy-pasted from an Al- Qaeda recruiting forum and have more to do with revisionist reconstruction of Post Colonial power relationships, or something, than they have to do with cricket.
Apple: Ignoring Shilpa since 27/3/2012 and Birbal (temporarily replying to him since there's no one else here 26/10/2015) since 16/8/2012
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 18:55
Quote:Birbal
Who are ECB to question anything about IPL?
Who is the IPL to question anything about the ECB? None of their dam.n business.
Quote:Birbal
It had a de facto window
Bogus, it did not.
Quote:Birbal
Yes, they had a lot of grass on them and had good amount of bounce...this favors late lateral movement off the pitch...
Scores of 202, 103, 159, 294, 104, 235, 175 suggest there was absolutely nothing wrong with the pitches. It used to be umpiring that Indian fans would complain about. Now that the BCCI is opposed to using DRS and this having shut them up for good on umpiring mistakes, it is now the pitches that are a problem. As for preparing turning tracks, please. India always does so anyway, this would be no different. Well, it maybe different if Dhoni pays more money to the curators this time around.
Quote:Birbal
Hahaaa... So it is in England's interest to SIT OUT their best batsman...and biggest match winner...and drop from No. 1 in Tests, and Twenty20 ...Yeah right!!!
Neither is letting him play in a club-level competition in some other country instead of a country-level recognized form of cricket representing his country.
Quote:Birbal
The ECB is jealous of the BCCI and its success with the IPL and is simply using KP and others as pawns in their petty fight with BCCI
Indian fans should be the last ones to talk about pettiness. Remember ICL and all its players that were never allowed to get anywhere close to playing decent-level cricket in the country? Just shut your rear about pettiness. EVERY dam.n thing India does on the world scale is downright pettiness these days.
Quote:Birbal
County cricket will make its earliest ever start in 2012
How is the county season starting early affecting IPL?
Quote:Birbal
otherwise why would they NOT cover the MOST POPULAR Cricket event in the world on their English language site
Most popular cricket event in every part of the world? Hahahahahahaha. It is most definitely in India. Pretty popular in the WI too, with a lot of their stars playing, but not watched by half as many people as their own regional T20 competition. Quite popular in NZ too, I presume, since they give it its own window. Probably SL too. Not as much Australia, given the time differences. Not at all in England, where people would still rather watch their county cricket - why not watch their own club-level competition than some other country's club-level competition? And the media then decides to cover what will be read with more interest.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 19:03
Quote:apple
Don't bother Audioman, it's not worth the hassle. Birbal has moved into Shilpa's "glass house of hatred" and all he does is spew nonsense and venom.
Can remember when this site had plenty of traffic and had numerous regular posters offering divergent and interesting viewpoints on cricket matters. Even AnuD's Ganguly worship was sometimes amusing.
Now with AnuD back in her new guise Shilpa, the site is just her and Birbal having a little hate-in.
It's not surprising the site is so empty now.
To be honest, most of their posts read like something copy-pasted from an Al- Qaeda recruiting forum and have more to do with revisionist reconstruction of Post Colonial power relationships, or something, than they have to do with cricket.
But some of these are so funny that I think I should reply to them. I don't mind the Ganguly worship as much, to be honest. India has always largely been a country of extremes - as a celebrity, you either get worshipped or you get stoned. Don't mind the Ganguly worship. Let's face it, he is one of the greatest cricketers India has produced, he deserves all adulation. But the bigger problem I see here is this - the thinking that if you say something enough times, it starts beginning to sound like the truth, even perhaps to yourself. But then, this is almost universal these days, especially with the advent of forums and social networking. People tend to mostly believe the last word spoken, and not bother to use their own brains. The other day I got an email from a friend asking me if it was ok to travel to Canada from the US without a visa, if he had a green card. I found it appalling that he would ask me when he could have spent that time writing to or calling up the Canadian embassy themselves. But this is what society has degenerated to.
But yes, I bet none of this even makes any sense at all to Birbal, or if it even does, he will pretend it didn't happen and merrily spew the same garbage everywhere else on the forum. Not betting on it going any other way, really.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 20:26
apple you sound like a spoilt little child who will not talk directly to someone he doesn't agree with, but talk "about" someone... if you are a grown up... speak directly to someone you disagree with...
Notice Audio you only selectively responded...for example...nothing about not doing your elementary research on the EARLIER and EARLIER starts to the English Season...
And even the ones you do respond you come with different versions of the same old tired drivel...that I have shown to be true only in your own imagination...otherwise use ad homenimem attacks conflating me with shilpa etc... Oh well...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:05:20:28:23 by Birbal.
Notice Audio you only selectively responded...for example...nothing about not doing your elementary research on the EARLIER and EARLIER starts to the English Season...
And even the ones you do respond you come with different versions of the same old tired drivel...that I have shown to be true only in your own imagination...otherwise use ad homenimem attacks conflating me with shilpa etc... Oh well...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:05:20:28:23 by Birbal.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 20:48
Quote:Atul
bolti band ... naa .. Dum kahbi seedhi nahi hongi
Atul that is wishful thinking... some people will keep arguing and arguing even when it is clear they don't have a leg to stand on and even as their arguments have been blown out of the water...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: apple (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 20:55
Quote:audioman
But some of these are so funny that I think I should reply to them.
There is some amusement to be gained from feeding internet trolls. I couldn't be bothered with it in the end.
Quote:audioman
But this is what society has degenerated to.
Yeah, that's a pity isn't it. I was part of that too, enjoying baiting people of fixed opinions.
But... all is well. KP's going to India for the tour and there's a T20 tournament on.
Apple: Ignoring Shilpa since 27/3/2012 and Birbal (temporarily replying to him since there's no one else here 26/10/2015) since 16/8/2012
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 05/10/2012 21:04
Quote:Birbal
nothing about not doing your elementary research on the EARLIER and EARLIER starts to the English Season...
Well, I was not the one that came back with unrelated county season start times!!
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2012 16:01
ECB continues with their "cut your nose to spite your face" routine...they pull out of the Champions League next year...citing the need to support local 50 over tournament....Seriously??!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:08:16:04:16 by Birbal.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:08:16:04:16 by Birbal.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2012 17:22
^ The ECB can afford to. It would have been very tempting of the WICB and the TTCB to follow suit, but they are not rich enough to afford it. Imagine some mid-table IPL team not even having to play the qualifiers while T&T, who have done well at CLT20 on every occasion they have been there, still playing qualifiers to even get to the main stage. Appalling!! But they cannot afford it. If someone out there can, and are willing to take the BCCI mafioso on, more power to them.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2012 17:31
But that is the question... can the ECB really afford to?... and what about the English players...why should they be blocked from earning what they are worth in the IPL...?
That to me seems like a restriction on making a living that needs to be challenged in Court...
That to me seems like a restriction on making a living that needs to be challenged in Court...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2012 18:15
Sigh. None of them are being restricted in playing in the IPL. Just not while they need to be representing England, when they are under contract. Your case would not even make the court.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 08/10/2012 20:37
You are right, they are not being "restricted" in a legal sense from playing IPL...but they are being asked to not avail themselves of the opportunity to make some very serious $$$ if they want to continue to be considered for the England side... It is form of interference with the free exercise of one's trade...and the proximate cause for a significant loss of income... though it may be technically "legal"...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2012 17:50
Quote:Birbal
but they are being asked to not avail themselves of the opportunity to make some very serious $$$ if they want to continue to be considered for the England side
Sigh. Yet another blatant lie.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2012 20:49
Tell that to Ravi Bopara... et al...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: thirdman (IP Logged)
Date: 09/10/2012 22:45
Just as the UK itself is a international nobody, and is now nothing more than a poodle of the US, the ECB is going through its denial phase in coming to terms with the new world order.
Strategically, the ECB will fail in its effort to spite the BCCI by refusing to allow its contracted players from making big $ - by arranging conflicting bogus tours to clash with the IPL.
Longterm, the ECB will be the poodle of the BCCI.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:10:04:34:55 by thirdman.
Strategically, the ECB will fail in its effort to spite the BCCI by refusing to allow its contracted players from making big $ - by arranging conflicting bogus tours to clash with the IPL.
Longterm, the ECB will be the poodle of the BCCI.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:10:10:04:34:55 by thirdman.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Sennen Lad (IP Logged)
Date: 11/10/2012 09:12
Nobody....Poodle??
Guess you can't please all of the people all of the time then?
Guess you can't please all of the people all of the time then?
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 21/12/2012 19:35
Now a County is restricting the ability of players to play in IPL...
Guess this was inevitable...
Nottinghamshire have told three of their England players - Michael Lumb, Alex Hales and Samit Patel - that they will not be able to pursue interest in taking part in the IPL next year.
The trio, who are all part of England's current Twenty20 squad in India, had been keen to try and secure deals in the tournament which runs in April and May, therefore clashing with the start of the English domestic season. Of the three only Lumb has previous IPL experience with Rajasthan Royals and Deccan Chargers.
It is by no means certain that any of them would have been picked up for the IPL although Hales has consolidated his England place this year with consistent scoring including a 26-ball fifty in the first T20 against India in Pune. On Thursday Hales was bought in the BPL auction, from which Lumb withdrew his name.
Mick Newell, Nottinghamshire's director of cricket, said: "We were very clear that we expected all of our players to be available to us as we would be severely weakened if we were to lose them for that period of time at that stage of the season.
"The players asked me to consider releasing them to enable them to take part in the IPL but they are key members of the squad and I explained that we wouldn't be able to allow them to take part."
Nottinghamshire's stance continues the uneasy relationship between English cricket and the IPL. Although the county game has not seen an early-season mass exodus to India, it will be interesting to watch whether other counties take a lead from Nottinghamshire to try and protect their own interests instead of losing key players.
Players fortunate enough to secure deals are understandably keen to take them up, but they can leave significant holes in the counties for the first six weeks of the season. Essex have previously had to cover for the absence of Owais Shah and Durham for Paul Collingwood.
The tournament has also meant weakened international sides arriving for tours and players arriving at the last minute before a Test series. That is likely to happen again next season with New Zealand's two-Test series clashing with the IPL.
Nottinghamshire's centrally contracted England players, Graeme Swann and Stuart Broad, would have their participation in any IPL deals that were offered decided by the ECB. Current central contracts have clauses allowing players a window to appear at the tournament, although last year that only impacted Kevin Pietersen and Eoin Morgan, subject to any fitness issues.
Earlier this week MS Dhoni suggested that as England's leading players are not available for the entire event it will make it difficult for them to earn deals with franchises.
Guess this was inevitable...
Nottinghamshire have told three of their England players - Michael Lumb, Alex Hales and Samit Patel - that they will not be able to pursue interest in taking part in the IPL next year.
The trio, who are all part of England's current Twenty20 squad in India, had been keen to try and secure deals in the tournament which runs in April and May, therefore clashing with the start of the English domestic season. Of the three only Lumb has previous IPL experience with Rajasthan Royals and Deccan Chargers.
It is by no means certain that any of them would have been picked up for the IPL although Hales has consolidated his England place this year with consistent scoring including a 26-ball fifty in the first T20 against India in Pune. On Thursday Hales was bought in the BPL auction, from which Lumb withdrew his name.
Mick Newell, Nottinghamshire's director of cricket, said: "We were very clear that we expected all of our players to be available to us as we would be severely weakened if we were to lose them for that period of time at that stage of the season.
"The players asked me to consider releasing them to enable them to take part in the IPL but they are key members of the squad and I explained that we wouldn't be able to allow them to take part."
Nottinghamshire's stance continues the uneasy relationship between English cricket and the IPL. Although the county game has not seen an early-season mass exodus to India, it will be interesting to watch whether other counties take a lead from Nottinghamshire to try and protect their own interests instead of losing key players.
Players fortunate enough to secure deals are understandably keen to take them up, but they can leave significant holes in the counties for the first six weeks of the season. Essex have previously had to cover for the absence of Owais Shah and Durham for Paul Collingwood.
The tournament has also meant weakened international sides arriving for tours and players arriving at the last minute before a Test series. That is likely to happen again next season with New Zealand's two-Test series clashing with the IPL.
Nottinghamshire's centrally contracted England players, Graeme Swann and Stuart Broad, would have their participation in any IPL deals that were offered decided by the ECB. Current central contracts have clauses allowing players a window to appear at the tournament, although last year that only impacted Kevin Pietersen and Eoin Morgan, subject to any fitness issues.
Earlier this week MS Dhoni suggested that as England's leading players are not available for the entire event it will make it difficult for them to earn deals with franchises.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Hants01 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/12/2012 14:50
Good for Notts. They are strking a blow for their own self-interest (as they should) and for the primacy of English domestic competitions, especially the Championship.
What are Notts supposed to do, to say to the three players: 'Yes, we defer to the IPL, and we will excuse you the first 6-8 weeks of the English season, decimating our batting order and probably putting ourselves out of contention for a couple of trophies, by the time you all return'?
The counties should combine and agree that players who sign up to IPL will not be re-engaged by any county side upon their existing contracts expiring. If they wish to exit English cricket by making a living in T20, so be it. If players wish to make a career from playing in T20 competitions, let them.Players should choose: IPL or English cricket?
When you take Notts' move and the pulling out of the Champions League, it seems that the English wish to assert their own self-interest. Good.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:12:23:14:53:09 by Hants01.
What are Notts supposed to do, to say to the three players: 'Yes, we defer to the IPL, and we will excuse you the first 6-8 weeks of the English season, decimating our batting order and probably putting ourselves out of contention for a couple of trophies, by the time you all return'?
The counties should combine and agree that players who sign up to IPL will not be re-engaged by any county side upon their existing contracts expiring. If they wish to exit English cricket by making a living in T20, so be it. If players wish to make a career from playing in T20 competitions, let them.Players should choose: IPL or English cricket?
When you take Notts' move and the pulling out of the Champions League, it seems that the English wish to assert their own self-interest. Good.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:12:23:14:53:09 by Hants01.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 23/12/2012 19:31
If you are so happy that Notts are looking after their own self interest...don't whine when India does the same...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Hants01 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/12/2012 22:08
Quote:Birbal
If you are so happy that Notts are looking after their own self interest...don't whine when India does the same...
Many would argue the BCCI are doing that already. It must be a bit galling that when asked to jump, others say 'how high?',yet the English refuse to comply.
Your article amuses me. Are we to establish the start of the English season to fit in with the IPL? And if we don't we are guilty of spite [to the IPL]? You say about doing a 'disservice' to English cricket and its players. The duty of the ECB is to promote the game in our country and that means having its best players playing in its domestic competitions, both to promote them and bring on young players.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 29/01/2013 22:25
Now a second county Essex is planning on asking players to make a choice either play for the county or IPL...
So what I predicted about Restriction on trade is coming true...
So what I predicted about Restriction on trade is coming true...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: shilpa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/01/2013 10:50
the win-win solution if for English cricket to adjust their dates....so that their saleable players are able to benefit from IPL riches availbale to the community.
OR atleast talk to IPL...and request them to adjust IPL dates so that English cricketers could participate in IPL riches.
It is English criket's stubborn and arrogant stance.......we don't care....we for IPL.....and will neotehr move ourselves to enter into a constructive dialogue with IPL requesting them to move....that is hurting their cricketers and will hurt them.
Like Pitersengate....that swallowed and murkied English cricket for months.
It wouldn't have happened if English cricket was not so stubborn and arrogant on the subject of IPL
OR atleast talk to IPL...and request them to adjust IPL dates so that English cricketers could participate in IPL riches.
It is English criket's stubborn and arrogant stance.......we don't care....we for IPL.....and will neotehr move ourselves to enter into a constructive dialogue with IPL requesting them to move....that is hurting their cricketers and will hurt them.
Like Pitersengate....that swallowed and murkied English cricket for months.
It wouldn't have happened if English cricket was not so stubborn and arrogant on the subject of IPL
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 30/01/2013 17:22
Maybe the IPL should request the ECB to move, and try to get into a constructive dialogue with the ECB?
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: shilpa (IP Logged)
Date: 30/01/2013 17:28
Quote:audioman
Maybe the IPL should request the ECB to move, and try to get into a constructive dialogue with the ECB?
Yeah...maybe IPL should go to ECB
the questions is thouhg
Is IPL failing because of lack of English players ?
or are English player missing out on the riches avaibale to all otehr nation's players ?
the answer to the question wopuld decided who should approach who ?
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/02/2013 16:26
Neither really. The BCCI seems happier if they aren't there and.....
The IPL is not a particularly big draw for the majority of English players.
They don't pay particularly promptly.
The contracts usually have a number of clauses that don't make them anything like as enticing as they seem.
The cricket is played as part of faceless and characterless franchises for the internationals where Indian sponsors struggle to remember who their big players are or whhat they look like.
The squad system means you can go for 8 to 10 weeks and play too little cricket.
What's more they miss the first half of the four day championship - the most important domestic competition and the entrance to the Test side.
Most of those interested are non internationals in the second halves of their career or those past their sell by date.
Keep buying the Aussies. I think the English guys will cope and look elsewhere during the winter
The IPL is not a particularly big draw for the majority of English players.
They don't pay particularly promptly.
The contracts usually have a number of clauses that don't make them anything like as enticing as they seem.
The cricket is played as part of faceless and characterless franchises for the internationals where Indian sponsors struggle to remember who their big players are or whhat they look like.
The squad system means you can go for 8 to 10 weeks and play too little cricket.
What's more they miss the first half of the four day championship - the most important domestic competition and the entrance to the Test side.
Most of those interested are non internationals in the second halves of their career or those past their sell by date.
Keep buying the Aussies. I think the English guys will cope and look elsewhere during the winter
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 11/02/2013 18:08
Actually the ECB has a HUGE problem with the IPL...
They strong-armed the Irish and Scotish boards to prevent IPL teams from playing T20 games in Ireland and Scotland...fearing competition with the English T20 leagues...
In India there is a saying... "some people keep their cheeks rosy by slapping them themselves..." that is what your attitude seems to me...
They strong-armed the Irish and Scotish boards to prevent IPL teams from playing T20 games in Ireland and Scotland...fearing competition with the English T20 leagues...
In India there is a saying... "some people keep their cheeks rosy by slapping them themselves..." that is what your attitude seems to me...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2013 19:19
Quote:shilpa
Is IPL failing because of lack of English players ?
or are English player missing out on the riches avaibale to all otehr nation's players ?
The IPL is happy thriving along. The English players are happy playing in domestic competitions. So there really is no need for dialogue.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Atul (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2013 20:59
Missing IPL season is making English players frustrated: Matt Prior
LONDON: England wicketkeeper Matt Prior warned on Thursday of the prospect of rows between players and administrators unless the England and Wales Cricket Board softened its stance towards the Indian Premier League.
The lucrative domestic Twenty20 competition attracts players from all around the world.
However, the ECB will not allow any of their centrally-contracted England players to play longer than half a season in the Indian franchise tournament because of Test commitments.
Such a position means many England cricketers are not considered to be attractive targets in the big-money player auction that takes place before each edition of the IPL, with Prior 'unsold' for the past two years.
Star batsman Kevin Pietersen briefly called time on his England limited overs career last year after a refusal by team management to release him for the full duration of the IPL, although other factors were involved in a move that has since been rescinded.
Prior though, while having no personal issues with the ECB's position, foresees a time when the sums of money involved in the IPL could make it hard for English cricket chiefs to maintain their current stance.
"I know for a fact that players want to play in the IPL -- you can't get away from the fact that there is an enormous amount of money at stake," the 30-year-old Prior said.
"I'm employed by the ECB, so I do what the ECB says right now.
"If that's when the Test matches are, then that's when the Test matches are. My priority is playing Test cricket for England and when I am needed to play Test cricket for England I will play," the Sussex gloveman added.
"The one thing, however, is that the IPL and these Twenty20 competitions are not going away.
"People love them and the players enjoy playing in them, so there are going to be more and more people getting frustrated at the lack of opportunity to play in the IPL. So things may have to change in time."
The sixth IPL starts on April 3 and runs to May 26, a period that includes England's first Test at home to New Zealand starting on May 16.
At present, the only England players involved in the IPL are Pietersen and fellow batsman Eoin Morgan.
Prior, who has appeared in the Australian domestic Twenty20 Big Bash competition for the Sydney Thunder, said he feared the kudos attached to playing cricket might not always be enough to prevent players from around the world turning their back on the five-day game if the price was right.
"If you ask any Englishman or Australian, 'would you rather score a T20 hundred or an Ashes hundred?' I know which one most people would go with, but guys are going to start looking at it," he said.
LONDON: England wicketkeeper Matt Prior warned on Thursday of the prospect of rows between players and administrators unless the England and Wales Cricket Board softened its stance towards the Indian Premier League.
The lucrative domestic Twenty20 competition attracts players from all around the world.
However, the ECB will not allow any of their centrally-contracted England players to play longer than half a season in the Indian franchise tournament because of Test commitments.
Such a position means many England cricketers are not considered to be attractive targets in the big-money player auction that takes place before each edition of the IPL, with Prior 'unsold' for the past two years.
Star batsman Kevin Pietersen briefly called time on his England limited overs career last year after a refusal by team management to release him for the full duration of the IPL, although other factors were involved in a move that has since been rescinded.
Prior though, while having no personal issues with the ECB's position, foresees a time when the sums of money involved in the IPL could make it hard for English cricket chiefs to maintain their current stance.
"I know for a fact that players want to play in the IPL -- you can't get away from the fact that there is an enormous amount of money at stake," the 30-year-old Prior said.
"I'm employed by the ECB, so I do what the ECB says right now.
"If that's when the Test matches are, then that's when the Test matches are. My priority is playing Test cricket for England and when I am needed to play Test cricket for England I will play," the Sussex gloveman added.
"The one thing, however, is that the IPL and these Twenty20 competitions are not going away.
"People love them and the players enjoy playing in them, so there are going to be more and more people getting frustrated at the lack of opportunity to play in the IPL. So things may have to change in time."
The sixth IPL starts on April 3 and runs to May 26, a period that includes England's first Test at home to New Zealand starting on May 16.
At present, the only England players involved in the IPL are Pietersen and fellow batsman Eoin Morgan.
Prior, who has appeared in the Australian domestic Twenty20 Big Bash competition for the Sydney Thunder, said he feared the kudos attached to playing cricket might not always be enough to prevent players from around the world turning their back on the five-day game if the price was right.
"If you ask any Englishman or Australian, 'would you rather score a T20 hundred or an Ashes hundred?' I know which one most people would go with, but guys are going to start looking at it," he said.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: choor (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2013 22:07
[www.espncricinfo.com]
Cricinfo's take on it. Valid points from both sides - so I guess we will continue with the stalemate.
Cricinfo's take on it. Valid points from both sides - so I guess we will continue with the stalemate.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2013 22:52
CI puts the ECB slant on it.... seems sometimes that CI is more
Cricmisinfo or Cricbiasinfo...
Cricmisinfo or Cricbiasinfo...
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: choor (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2013 00:03
You don't think the ECB POV is valid? Sky pays a considerable amount of money to telecast the county and English international season. This money is invested into English cricket and sustains the counties and the central contracts. Are the players planning on compensating Sky and the ECB?
The players are right to try and get the best outcome for themselves but they need to choose.
The players are right to try and get the best outcome for themselves but they need to choose.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: shilpa (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2013 07:33
Quote:choor
You don't think the ECB POV is valid? Sky pays a considerable amount of money to telecast the county and English international season. This money is invested into English cricket and sustains the counties and the central contracts. Are the players planning on compensating Sky and the ECB?
The players are right to try and get the best outcome for themselves but they need to choose.
socialism vs. capitalism
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Martian (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2013 14:12
Quote:shilpaQuote:choor
You don't think the ECB POV is valid? Sky pays a considerable amount of money to telecast the county and English international season. This money is invested into English cricket and sustains the counties and the central contracts. Are the players planning on compensating Sky and the ECB?
The players are right to try and get the best outcome for themselves but they need to choose.
socialism vs. capitalism
Best answer !!!!
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2013 18:00
Choor, the IPL is not out to destroy English cricket...all it wants is a dedicated window in April-May which is the Indian Summer Vacation time (greatest audience participation)...
If the ECB can be flexible on that they can have their cake and eat it too... but they are just being stubborn and dictatorial....
If the ECB can be flexible on that they can have their cake and eat it too... but they are just being stubborn and dictatorial....
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: audioman (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2013 20:36
^ But if the 10% that the ECB can make off of their players that are picked to play in the IPL is lesser than what they would make off of Sky TV contracts to cover both their international and the domestic scene during those months, it makes absolutely no sense for them to do so. Plus, the revenue from the IPL is a number that keeps varying as well.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: choor (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2013 23:27
I am confused - my answer is exactly about the application of capitalism. If money wasn't involved - this would be a non-issue. The ECB is running a business as is the BCCI.
Gaurang - I never suggested the IPL are out to destroy English cricket. Far from it - it needs the local boards to keep producing 'star players' for its league. It doesn't produce players but provides the platform, and I am aware and understand the economic reasons for why it is held at the time it is.
But you also have to acknowledge the economic reasons as to why the English season is held when it. It cannot start any earlier due to weather and EPL and it cannot start later and finish later for the same reason. So in order to facilitate this it would need a change in their structure of the season including the number of games. This may have an adverse impact on the contract they have with Sky. If there is a shortfall - who covers this? So for purely selfish and business reasons I can understand why they their stance. I can also see the BCCI stance as well.
In the end it wont be the ECB or the BCCI but it will be the other boards and the ICC that have to force the issue. As the ECB still requires one test playing nation to send a side to play cricket in England in May. They can only do that if the other boards continue to play ball.
Gaurang - I never suggested the IPL are out to destroy English cricket. Far from it - it needs the local boards to keep producing 'star players' for its league. It doesn't produce players but provides the platform, and I am aware and understand the economic reasons for why it is held at the time it is.
But you also have to acknowledge the economic reasons as to why the English season is held when it. It cannot start any earlier due to weather and EPL and it cannot start later and finish later for the same reason. So in order to facilitate this it would need a change in their structure of the season including the number of games. This may have an adverse impact on the contract they have with Sky. If there is a shortfall - who covers this? So for purely selfish and business reasons I can understand why they their stance. I can also see the BCCI stance as well.
In the end it wont be the ECB or the BCCI but it will be the other boards and the ICC that have to force the issue. As the ECB still requires one test playing nation to send a side to play cricket in England in May. They can only do that if the other boards continue to play ball.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2013 16:53
Choor your arguments are cogent and have some merit...the key point you make is that other boards continue to send teams to England to play in May...
But if you notice these teams often don't include their IPL stars... is this what the ECB wants?
I think already the other teams are seeing the writing on the wall.. if ECB insists on holding players like KP and maybe one or two others like Prior hostage... and forcing them to play against the IPL star depleted teams of countries like West Indies, Sri Lanka and New Zealand... they are doing a disservice to the players and the English fans... better to play an English team sans IPL stars against these teams.... if they must...or better yet, just scrap the May Tests... they will make up for it more than enough with the $$$ they earn from their cut of the IPL Stars' salaries
But if you notice these teams often don't include their IPL stars... is this what the ECB wants?
I think already the other teams are seeing the writing on the wall.. if ECB insists on holding players like KP and maybe one or two others like Prior hostage... and forcing them to play against the IPL star depleted teams of countries like West Indies, Sri Lanka and New Zealand... they are doing a disservice to the players and the English fans... better to play an English team sans IPL stars against these teams.... if they must...or better yet, just scrap the May Tests... they will make up for it more than enough with the $$$ they earn from their cut of the IPL Stars' salaries
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: choor (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2013 21:56
Hi I would agree if that were the case, but I think you will find on recent tours e.g. SL and Windies, IPL players actually went to England e.g. Marlon Samuels, Sangakarra, Jayawardene etc etc
It will be interesting to see the composition of the NZ team as Ross Taylor and Brendon McCullum are IPL players.
At this stage what I see both competitions are being deprived of the best available players.
It will be interesting to see the composition of the NZ team as Ross Taylor and Brendon McCullum are IPL players.
At this stage what I see both competitions are being deprived of the best available players.
Re: ECB Is The Root Of The Problems
Posted by: Birbal (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2013 15:53
choor you are actually making my argument... OK so IPL teams released Samuels and Jayawardane, etc. to play in England... but these guys only came late as can be..days before the matches...
ECB insists on the likes of KP to be "available" even when they are likely to sit on the bench to be considered for the Tests or other big games...
KP wanted to manage his workload and skip ODIs...but the English management wanted him to be "available"...
This is the attitude that is the root of the problem...and ECB is to blame
ECB insists on the likes of KP to be "available" even when they are likely to sit on the bench to be considered for the Tests or other big games...
KP wanted to manage his workload and skip ODIs...but the English management wanted him to be "available"...
This is the attitude that is the root of the problem...and ECB is to blame
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.