ELVs a coaching perspective
By H Rees
June 4 2008
I have been asked to put together my views on the ELVs and some of the coaching issues they may raise.
One of the great things about rugby union is that it is governed by laws, not rules. Rules are set in stone and cannot be argued with.
Laws, as an intelligent man (yes Ladies, they do exist) once said, are “for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of fools”. In other words, they should be open to interpretation by any and all.
This being the case everything you see on here will be my interpretation of the laws and my view on how I feel it will affect the coaching I undertake. This will be open to debate and no view is to be seen as right or wrong, just interpretation – so please discuss at length and let’s make the whole board a more informed place because of it.
Background
The ELVs have had a proportion of them trialled this season in the Super 14. Some, not all, of these are travelling North for trial in all levels of the game, down to youth and amateur levels. Some have been sent back to be rethought. Some will appear in an “elite” NH competition, we are told. Many of these actually just refine laws already in common usage but there are some key ones that will cause a change in the way the game is played. I shall concentrate on these alone, specifically the ones that are being used universally from outset.
Maul
- Players will be allowed to defend against the maul by pulling it down
View - This is the one law I have a major concern over. Safety in our game is paramount and I cannot see how this can be done safely. A well organised and controlled maul is virtually an upright scrum. Does a maul always end in a try? No. Can it be defended against? Yes, with a modicum of difficulty but it can and is. Imagine if you will the idea of several older, overweight players in the lower leagues. To them a maul is a part of the standard fare for their game. What happens if these large (many over 18 stone) men suddenly have their drive collapsed? Are they going to be fit and flexible enough to cope with the sudden pressures on joints, ribs and lungs that this will create? I foresee major injuries this season at all levels, but mostly in the lower leagues. Some will be very serious indeed.
At this point I would like to do a rare thing, and that’s praise the RFU. After consultation with youth coaches across the country they have confirmed that this rule change and the one regarding the removal of the requirement for shoulders to be above hips will NOT be trialled at U19 and lower youth levels until it can be proven that safety is not compromised.
ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Comeonyouwarriors.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 20:32
ELVs a coaching perspective
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 20:36
I have broken this great article up into 4 pages.. A it makes it easier to read and b 4 times the revenue!!!
Thanks the Hywel for this.. If we ask him nicely he might do some more!!!
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club
Thanks the Hywel for this.. If we ask him nicely he might do some more!!!
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: TVM (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 20:38
Thanks boss!
Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.
Dare we hope? We dare.
Can we hope? We can.
Should we hope? We must.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Tom Paine (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 21:03
It has always been legal for one (brave and foolish) man to tackle, below the hips, the ball carrier within a group of opponents bound together but not bound to any opponents ( therefore not technically a maul). It is becoming quite a common way to defend against the maul, which is virtually impossible to defend legally once it is moving. In practice refs tend to give a maul a lifespan and then allow it to be collapsed. To me it is legalised obstruction and I'd be glad to see the back of it.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 21:40
Quote:The other possible option that seems more likely to guarantee results is someone just grabs the legs of the player at the front of the maul, bringing it all down. The risk there is that your head is right in the middle of the collapsing bodies and likely to get damaged, so I would look to use the current option more.
That's not legal under the ELVs:
A defending team may pull the maul to the ground.
To do this, the defender must grasp an opposing player in the maul anywhere between the shoulders and
the hips and then pull that player to the ground.
If the maul is brought down by any other action it is regarded as a collapse which remains illegal
Stuart
Former ed.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Hywel (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 21:45
Thanks Stuart. Some more clarity that I hadn't seen so far. Information from the RFU as to what the full terms of the law are remain sketchy at this point so any additions like this are welcome.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:04:21:48:00 by Hywel.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:04:21:48:00 by Hywel.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 21:49
I have posted a link to this on all the GP sites... So hopefully we shall get some ggod input.
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: GnB (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 21:49
Quote:Hywel re ELVs at scrum
One thing is for certain, I wouldn’t want to be a 10 defending that channel this season! Everything is going to be coming at the 10 and a whole lot quicker than before as the attacks will have had extra time to gain speed and momentum. 10s will have to tackle like demons
Anybody still think Joey will be first choice fly half this season?
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Hywel (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 21:54
Please do me a favour guys. There are 4 parts and they only really work as a whole piece. I know it's lengthy but, hopefully, it should be of interest.
Thanks
Thanks
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Butthead (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:28
Good work, coach! Any truth in the rumours of the "Elite" competition to trial further ELVs will be the Fat Bloke 7s?
Also, regarding this point:
How about another persepective? This places more emphasis on the attacking team to secure the ball quickly (away from the cheats). Although I had thought hands were to be allowed, as long as you enter through the gate?
Also, regarding this point:
Quote:Thankfully we haven’t been asked to go the whole hog and accept the “cheats charter” of free kicks for hands in rucks and killing the ball
How about another persepective? This places more emphasis on the attacking team to secure the ball quickly (away from the cheats). Although I had thought hands were to be allowed, as long as you enter through the gate?
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Hywel (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:32
The free kicks for all but foul play and offside are coming for the elite competition, not the initial version.
Blooming complex I know, but imagine what it will be like for the players/refs/coaches out there?
Blooming complex I know, but imagine what it will be like for the players/refs/coaches out there?
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: andreww (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:39
the ELVs are written in full on the IRB website, with full explantions and the new laws - funny that hen being on the IRB site~:
Full ELVS and explanations
Full ELVS and explanations
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Hywel (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:42
I repeat, only some of the rules are coming in to the northern hemisphere, not all of the ones being trialled in SH.
That is what makes this such a pigs ear of a set of rules.
That is what makes this such a pigs ear of a set of rules.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Butthead (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:46
What is the world coming to?
From the end of the full set:
(Sm35)
From the end of the full set:
Quote:IRB Health and Safety legal advisers
Disclaimer
Rugby is a physical contact sport and there are inherent risks associated with participating in Rugby related
activities. Accidents can happen and may happen to you. The IRB (including its operating entity IRFB
Services (Ireland) Limited and other associated entities) does not accept any responsibility or liability in
negligence or otherwise in relation to any injury, loss or damage suffered by persons seeking to replicate
activities demonstrated in this IRB Guide To Experimental Law Variations product or participating in Rugby
related activities generally.
(Sm35)
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Azrael (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:46
Quote:Hywel
I repeat, only some of the rules are coming in to the northern hemisphere, not all of the ones being trialled in SH.
That is what makes this such a pigs ear of a set of rules.
I agree Hywel - what they should have done is try the exact same set of laws that were trailled in the S14 this year, pretty much all of which were deemed to enhance the game by making it quicker without diminishing the traditional aspects of the game - this mish mash will create an imbalanced and improper study.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:50
It's going to be fun with players switching from one set of Laws and back again in back to back matches!!! Lots of penalties me thinks...
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Butthead (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:53
Free kicks, actually 
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Azrael (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 22:54
Quote:Powick_Eastander
It's going to be fun with players switching from one set of Laws and back again in back to back matches!!! Lots of penalties me thinks...
Or free kicks depending which version in use that day
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Old 7 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2008 23:24
Hywel,
Just what I was looking for, thanks.
Interesting point about the 10 channel, isn't our new signing smaller than Shine? Maybe we'll see positional changes when defending scrums.
Just what I was looking for, thanks.
Interesting point about the 10 channel, isn't our new signing smaller than Shine? Maybe we'll see positional changes when defending scrums.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Hywel (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 06:25
Wasps do that now with Cipriani moving out to 13 in defence, so it might well develop that way.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Bob (swatpo) (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 07:58
Well its all confused my tiny little brain........ bang goes my career change to become a referee
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Gillies 4 England (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 08:25
Nice one Hywel.
With the exception of the new maul law, I don't really have a problem with the ELVs being adopted in the GP. What I cannot except is the notion that the free-kick for everything law is being trialled in a different competition (the ECC has been mooted I believe) next season. Some teams (including Wuss) will be playing to one set of laws one week, and a different set the next. Ridiculous IMHO.
The free kick for everything law is a step too far IMHO. I hope the ECC trial is a disaster and is sent back South for good. Unfortunately the S14 has declared them to be a success, so I fear Phase 2 in the GP is inevitable.
-----
G4E
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With the exception of the new maul law, I don't really have a problem with the ELVs being adopted in the GP. What I cannot except is the notion that the free-kick for everything law is being trialled in a different competition (the ECC has been mooted I believe) next season. Some teams (including Wuss) will be playing to one set of laws one week, and a different set the next. Ridiculous IMHO.
The free kick for everything law is a step too far IMHO. I hope the ECC trial is a disaster and is sent back South for good. Unfortunately the S14 has declared them to be a success, so I fear Phase 2 in the GP is inevitable.
-----
G4E
-----
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Powick Eastander (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 08:53
It would seem that the collapsing of mauls is going to have quite an effect on rugby if they are not careful. In this safety first ruled world of ours, parents may not let their children be put in danger...
Times Online
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:05:08:54:18 by Powick_Eastander.
Times Online
Warriors Rugby Supporters Club Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:05:08:54:18 by Powick_Eastander.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: DOK. (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 09:24
The RFU have refused to implement the pulling down the maul ELV for under 19s and below.
[www.sportinglife.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:05:09:30:26 by DOK.
[www.sportinglife.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:06:05:09:30:26 by DOK.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: AL FRESCO (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 09:58
I was going to a ref course, sod that
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: beav1s (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 12:18
Not having Sky I have not had the experience of watching these new laws in force so will reserve any judgement until I can see them in force. Does seem odd that the players will have to learn one set of rules for one competition and a further set for another.....did I say odd, I meant STUPID!!!
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Old 7 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 12:33
Hywels view on the new role of the back row seems to explain why MR let big Gav go.He may struggle under the ELV's, even as an impact player.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Thanks for the Mem. (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 14:22
Great article, thanks.
It will be more dificult for the 10 to defend as he is 5m further back, however the 7 will remain the same distance from the 8 or attacking backs as this season as it's only the defending side who have to move back.
It will be more dificult for the 10 to defend as he is 5m further back, however the 7 will remain the same distance from the 8 or attacking backs as this season as it's only the defending side who have to move back.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Hywel (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 14:32
Absolutely true. My thoughts are that he will be more isolated because of the distance away that the rest of the defence will be. One man is easier to beat in isolation and additionally he will always be that fraction behind what the ball carrier does as he has to react. I see attacks going wider initially to draw the 7 across, effectively acting as a blocker to his own teams defence!
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: TCM2007 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2008 17:38
Quote:Thanks for the Mem.
Great article, thanks.
It will be more dificult for the 10 to defend as he is 5m further back, however the 7 will remain the same distance from the 8 or attacking backs as this season as it's only the defending side who have to move back.
Both sets of backs will have to be 5m from the scrum.
Stuart
Former ed.
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: apb (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2008 12:49
Quote:Does seem odd that the players will have to learn one set of rules for one competition and a further set for another.....did I say odd, I meant STUPID!!!
Not just the players, but the refs as well. Its especially complicated at the very lowest level of the game, where the ref sits at home watching the super 14 before coming out to ref a game in the afternoon. This actually happened to my 4th XV in April where the ref actually played the ELVs without telling anyone - I've never seen so many free kicks awarded in a whole season, never mind a single game!!!
Waiting for the good times ...
..and waiting ....
... and waiting ...
Re: ELVs a coaching perspective
Posted by: Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2008 19:03
Excuse my ignorance, but do I take it from this article that the ELVs discussed above will be in place in the GP next season?
And if that is the case, which extra ones will be introduced into the "elite" competition?
Apologies if I'm a little bit behind the times or have misunderstood anything!
Whatever you do, do it safely!
And if that is the case, which extra ones will be introduced into the "elite" competition?
Apologies if I'm a little bit behind the times or have misunderstood anything!
Whatever you do, do it safely!
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