Michael Schumacher blames Mercedes for poor 2010 form

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:23:17:18:27 by sessions.

Finally he admits his lack of pace is down to his age. Hoofookinray…

That is an acknowledgement that he can’t compete with 25 year olds in similar machinery. All that about burning holes etc is BS, just excuses in an attempt to partly cover the fact that he’s past it. He’s obviously very concerned about this as he asked Ross and Merc to put out a statement saying it was the car’s fault. They couldn’t do that given Nico was scoring well in the same car.

Given even he’s now admitted he’s past it, and given Merc wouldn’t support him when he wanted them to blame the car, why does he still think he deserves a drive with Mercedes? Why should we accept him holding us back? This was just an ego trip for him which happily has gone badly wrong.

If he wants a drive so badly, he should buy himself a seat with Virgin or someone who could use the money. Just don’t hold us back and don’t get in our way on the track.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Herman,

We all have our opinions and I'm personally glad that we have the ability to present them here, but I get a kick out the fact that you refuse to give Michael any slack at all.
Isn't there some doubt in your mind that MS could turn in a strong performance in 2011 ?
Anyway, My comment isn't meant to change your views, but I hope both drivers, (be it Michael or any other) rally points for Mercedes next year. It takes two strong drivers to go anywhere in the chase of the constructors title.

sessions

Personally, I am loving it that he's had real pain by being trashed this year.

In his previous career, he set himself up as some kind of all-conquering teutonic hero, when really he was no better than a Kimi, or a Mika or JV, only they were more sporting and didn't have the help that he enjoyed.

He is without doubt the most arrogant and detestable person imaginable and I am really really enjoying the fact that he is now destroying the myth that he and ferrari created.

Even with his@#$%&season, he will arrogantly try to hold onto a seat he doesn't deserve for 2011, i am looking forward to more of the same. He was and still is a fake only now its easier to see. Schumacher up your @rse

In his previous career, he set himself up as some kind of all-conquering teutonic hero, when really he was no better than a Kimi, or a Mika or JV, only they were more sporting and didn't have the help that he enjoyed.

Pitts,

This I agree with, but for Mercedes sake I hope he can return to better form in 2011. I'm still in belief that veterans can cut the mustard and offer lots to teams.

As mentioned we'll see by mid-season if MS will answer the call.

sessions

I´m afraid, that he is not driving for the team but for himself. For the team sake I hope I´m wrong.

And for Nico´s sake I hope he is not starting to do Alonsos (playing politics agains his teammate).

Mika was #1, he was fair and fast.

Pits that is true if a little harsh.

I dont want to see the team suffer in 2011 like we did in 2010, therefore for the sake of the team he must go. We should have a young driver who we can bring on, not provide a rest home for the old and discarded.

Maybe that's why he's here, his ego couldn't take the fact that ferrari sacked him to make way for Kimi and he feels he's got something to prove. Well you are certainly proving what we all knew now Michael.. Please go now and dont hang around any longer like a bad fart..

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

That's one way to view it, but I see it a different way.
Last year they got Nico. Then the veteran Heidfeld. To me that was a very workable combo, thay may have gained optimum results. We will never know because then entered Michael. Even though he was 40 and out of the sport awhile, his persona was still intact.
Well, a year later, we all have seen what happened. MS didn't get the results Mercedes and many hoped for, but they (Mercedes) still seem to maintain a great deal of faith in Michael's potential to return to form.
I'm of the thought that we should give it time and it still may happen.
Mercedes should get a up and coming test driver in the meantime just in case. If you were a young rookie wouldn't you rather be at Mercedes rather than 70% of the other teams ?
Anyway, I will reserve my final decision on MS until a half dozen races into the 2011 season. To me the story will be told by then.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:08:18:22:28 by sessions.

Im torn in this one. Because i would love to see MS destroying the whole field. But i also think he failed big time this year.

I just hope that Ross gets the monster done for 2011 which both Nico and MS can show to rest of the field what MercedesGP is really made of.

About the accusations he made. MS is great with media.

I read it as MS saying basically when Nico had a problem the world knew about it, whereas when he had a problem he did the professional thing & didn't mention it to the media, instead inadvertently shouldering the blame for the performance on himself.

I think he thought he could afford to do this as he probably felt he personally had nothing to prove, but I imagine that eventually all the questions over his performances at various times throughout the year led to frustration & MS wanting some acknowledgement from the team to the media that his car has often had problems that have not been reported because he was trying to do the right thing as a driver FOR THE TEAM rather than FOR HIMSELF. (you can forgive him for messing it up a bit,considering it must be the 1st time he's thought like this whilst racing f1) :-)

Nico on the other hand was ALWAYS very quick to point out any tiny car drama he had to the press(especially every time he was slower than MS it was a bit desparate at times really), a habit that I imagine in the eyes of many team owners makes him unsuitable to be considered for a number 1 driver role.

Even with his apparent speed, he needs to prove he's a title contender given the right machinery, which he still has not. Plenty of f1 drivers have performed well in dog/average cars only to choke when given the right kind of machinery.....Frentzen is the 1st name that springs to mind..... so the jury is still out on Herr Rosberg until he proves just that.

I dont think the Jury is out on Rosberg. He destroyed schumacher this year, that looked pretty conclusive to me. So either Rosberg is better than people give him credit for or shcunacher is worse than we think. You cant have it both ways.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:09:17:30:32 by Herman Munster.

If I were a F1 team owner, I'd like having the results of the unproven Nico. It's the results of the proven 7 time champion that would have me scratching my head.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:09:15:26:50 by sessions.

Quote:

Herman Munster
I dont think the Jury is out on Rosberg. He destroyed schumacher this year, that looked pretty conclusive to me. So either Rosberg is better than people give him credit for or shcunacher is worse than we think. You cant have it both ways.

I'm not having anything both ways, it appears you sir are actually the one trying to have his cake & eat it too. Ok heres my point, has Rosberg ever won a race? no. Ever won a championship? No. Ever even fought for a win? No. What happened when he got into 2nd? he spun off the track.

Unproven. refer my Frentzen point again, everyone said he was faster than schumacher etc etc & he beat all his teammates in bad cars, then he got the chance in a Williams.........and failed horribly. It can happen (I'm not saying it will) hence Nico is unproven. Also his media handling skills leave alot to be desired, hence why I think he is a good driver choice for a team, but no team boss will want to designate him a number 1 driver yet...

& Sessions as team boss i'd be scratching my head at how the car turned out so mediocre & ill tuned for the 7 tiumes champion I had just signed, you know the one that HAS proven he can do all the things I listed above, again & again & again?

So Munster, if you want to simply compare 1 season in a bad car & say Rosberg is better than MS then by that logic Webber is also better than both of them because he dominated Rosberg back at Williams......but even I can admit that ain't quite right, just like your logic there munster. Can you admit it or are you on the blind charge again?

Remember if you continue to argue your point you only reinforce mine (i.e Webber must then be the best of the 3 as he beat Rosberg, & you CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS hahaha).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:10:01:48:23 by DownUnderThunder.

I think Schumi did not say anything I disbelieve. He was well thought out and his typical analytical self.

Yes, I too would be scratching my head at the car if I were Ross. It was truly a dissappointment.

And for the comment about Nico and Schumi in the same car...well...the same car design, but two different cars. Things can happen and cars can end up considerably different in this game, by which I mean a couple of tenths off per lap.

As I said on JV's forum...remember, this is essentially the same team that put a car on the grid for JV in Canada for which a caliper fell off back in 2003.

Anyway...the proof is in the pudding and we will should have no more excuses like this next season from Schumi. He has had a year in the car, a year with the team, and a year to provide feedback on what he would like to see.

Should Nico paste him again next year, then he might want to think about stepping aside in the third year of his contract and just do test/development work for the team and let a driver like GLock, the Hulk or Sutil take over.

Contrarian,

Sound comment. I think we would see some action taken by mid-season next year if Michael fails to match Nico's output.
I doubt he would hang on if he's not at least on par with his team mate.
At any rate, for his sake, I hope so.....

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:10:19:29:17 by sessions.

Anyone see Schu win Race of Champions for Germany this year after Vettel crumbled under the pressure? It was gold, I dunno where Rosberg was, maybe he had a hair appointment that day hahaha? Or maybe he couldn't decide what his true nationality was?

I kid fellas, I jest in good homour, & its good to see everyone still here over the off season! :-)

Only saw clips and MS did well. Good for him.
I do agree Ross must have not been to happy with the car, but I was surprised Nico somehow managed to repeatedly bring it home in front of Michael.
I'm glad we are posting during the lull and it's fun to jest with each other.
I hope the 2011 car will be more competitive and the two drivers up the ante. If so this site will light up with excitement and the banter will intensify.
We have two characters who are front and centre types who will offer posters a vast spectrum of opinions.

sessions

Quote:

Me
So either Rosberg is better than people give him credit for or shcunacher is worse than we think.

Thats a chioce, an either or, its not having it both ways.

Quote:

DUT
has Rosberg ever won a race? no. Ever won a championship? No. Ever even fought for a win? No. What happened when he got into 2nd? he spun off the track.

Ok lets assume Rosberg is rubbish as you aver. His results this year therefore would make the car actually better than we thought and were being told by schumacher, and given the conclusive way in which this rubbish driver slaughtered schumacher, schumacher must be even worse now than I hoped.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:13:11:27:05 by Herman Munster.

HM, I never said Rosberg is rubbish, merely unproven in a race & championship winning role, as he is yet to accomplish either of these feats. I hoped the Frentzen example helped make this clear. I'm not saying he can't, just that he hasn't & we haven't seen him in a truly race/championship winning (capable) car yet.

I was just responding to your question as to why Mercedes would not dump MS & back Rosberg as a fully fledged team lead driver like you suggest they should. It wouldn't make sense, when they have someone that they KNOW can, based on previous accomplishments.


As for having it both ways, I believe you still are, as you are consistently saying on the one hand that ROS is brilliant for beating MS last season (which implies that MS must be a formidible teammate/opponent on the 1st place for it to be so impressive that Rosberg is beating him)..........but at the same time you rubbish Schumacher as a driver, saying things like he is past it etc etc & he had no talent in the 1st place etc etc...

Can you see where I am coming from or are the ole' MS blinkers on again?

My praise of the unproven Rosberg is for that very reason, he's unproven and yet he's trashed MS this year.

In view of that, he's EITHER much better than he's been able to demonstrate so far in his career, OR if he's not MS must be seriously past it. Possibly there's a bit of both.

One thing is for sure, he conclusively beat MS this year, much to my satisfaction.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Quote:

Herman Munster
My praise of the unproven Rosberg is for that very reason, he's unproven and yet he's trashed MS this year.
In view of that, he's EITHER much better than he's been able to demonstrate so far in his career, OR if he's not MS must be seriously past it. Possibly there's a bit of both.

One thing is for sure, he conclusively beat MS this year, much to my satisfaction.

Another way of looking at it is to use their current form which was the last few races where Michael proved that Rosberg is truly unproven to not dismiss him completely lol

Now if his excuses are true, then Rosberg is in trouble

What will happen to him when he is being beaten by a pensioner lol

I wont hold my breath. MS is finished

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Quote:

Herman Munster
I wont hold my breath. MS is finished

That is what they said about Fernando after spy gate lol

Same was said after Crashgate ....

There is no point being a scholar on this mate



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:14:21:35:55 by f2005.

I didn't say alonso was finished. He isn't 42 either.

I guess MS is luck we didn't have a "proven" driver in Nico's car, or he would have been even further behind.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Do you really think that if Merc knew they were going to be dominant they would have signed Nico and let JB go

Even Norbert and co are not that stupid lol

However, may I ask if you are saying that age is a limiting factor in F1

Rubens says he is getting better with age lol

Quote:

Do you really think that if Merc knew they were going to be dominant they would have signed Nico and let JB go

Not quite sure what you meant there, I assume you mean that merc let JB go because they knew they wouldn't be dominant in 2010?

Why wouldn't they let JB go and sign Nico? They mistakenly thought they were getting the worlds greatest driver in MS and wanted a team mate who would willingly bend over to be shafted, like in the old days.

Instead, they got an old has been who was at least 7 tenths slower than the car, and Nico, the second driver, turned out to be capable of getting podiums, and scored twice as many points as the old has been.

Now that must have been a real shocker

Especially to Schumacher himself. Must been a rude awakening.
It took him three quarters of the season to shake the reality of it all. I think that awareness will better serve him in 2011.

sessions

7 tenths of a second? Geez why don't you round it up to a full second, better for your story & while you are extaggerating, why not go the whole nine yards?

Even at the start of the season I remember him being only 4 tenths at most behind. By the end of the season, he was faster than NR but by then the team was managing its constructor's points so MS worked around NR to ensure the max points for the team & for NR in the drivers championship.

Factor in that MS HATES a car that doesn't turn in & it looks like it was pretty equal from the opening race & MS just doesn't like a car that has no front end on it, so he struggled with that most of the time.

Now remember that you haven't even seen him in a car with a strong front end vs Nico to see if Nico is equally disadvantaged or struggles more in a car that suits MS.

I BET that if MS is suddenly 4 tenths faster on average next season you will be crowing about how the car is built to MS & not even recognising your own double standard, whereby if a car doesn't suit MS it is his fault for not being able to drive around it & if it does suit him its because he cheated behind the scenes to get it to be the way he wanted (i.e irony being that by your argument Nico should be able to drive around it & perform exactly as MS does in that car otherwise he is as bad as you say MS is).....hmmmm something don't quite smell right about your logic there...

Also I'm sure that Ross DIDN'T want a teammate that would bend over & be shafted, otherwise he would be looking at a worse season that his team endured. Doesn't make sense does it? Good story for the MS haters but, where logic doesn't apply to an argument.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:16:02:02:48 by DownUnderThunder.

All this optimism about him being more competitive next year [if the car is right / tyres better etc] from the MS lovers is very touching.

However, we can only judge the situation on what we saw this year and that was a disaster for the great one. He was comprehensively beaten by an un proven team mate. How sad.

Pits, your 7 tenths is a bit ott, it was more like 4-5 tenths, but hey whats a few tenths between friends. The point is that Nico was faster. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment of your post.

One thing we can be sure of, if he had come back and racing been up front, all his cronies would be here saying what a superstar he is and boring us to death with the same old BS weve heard all these years. As it turned out, he failed and they cant. All they can hope for is that next year he will be better but he wont, as you say, he's past it.

I want this team to move forward, not look back to the past, thats why I want him out. He's had his day, he's had his second career chance, if he wasn't so arrogant he would just go before he damages his reputation and this team even further.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Quote:

Herman Munster
All this optimism about him being more competitive next year [if the car is right / tyres better etc] from the MS lovers is very touching.
However, we can only judge the situation on what we saw this year and that was a disaster for the great one. He was comprehensively beaten by an un proven team mate. How sad.

Pits, your 7 tenths is a bit ott, it was more like 4-5 tenths, but hey whats a few tenths between friends. The point is that Nico was faster. Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment of your post.

One thing we can be sure of, if he had come back and racing been up front, all his cronies would be here saying what a superstar he is and boring us to death with the same old BS weve heard all these years. As it turned out, he failed and they cant. All they can hope for is that next year he will be better but he wont, as you say, he's past it.

I want this team to move forward, not look back to the past, thats why I want him out. He's had his day, he's had his second career chance, if he wasn't so arrogant he would just go before he damages his reputation and this team even further.

I thought the saying was you are only as good as your last race..now it is last season

I agree that Michael made things look easy in his earlier life and his secind coming was a disaster

But you do make some really good points.

His second career is three seasons but I am sure he will call it off after this if there is no hope for him improving

Actually we can only judge the situation once all the car excuses are gone (i.e not based on this year) & once it is clear that the car is fast enough, so this year is a moot point as it was whom did the best & had less mechanical uissues affecting their weekends in a dog of a car.

Wow Rosberg knows dog cars, great, wheres the help in that unless you want 4th-7th in the championship year after year & a driver that is more interested in promoting themselves than their team. (Rosberg the perpetual whinger about the apparantely good car, whilst MS kept his mouth shut in press interviews, shouldering the blame himself instead).


I'm just saying that if MS (not just the car) is suddenly more competitive next year, instead of instantly claiming a conspiracy theory (as I suspect you will) you may have to actually admit that MS may have been telling the complete truth about his struggles this season gone by with the 2010 car. Wow, what a novel concept, Schumacher NOT the devil incarnate???? Whaaaa??????

We sure have varied opinions on Michael. To me his driving and input is as good as any of the champions. He pays seriously strict attention to every detail. He uses and thinks of every aspect and trick in the book to achieve his aims.
The part I have trouble with is when he fails, his non-relenting desire to win kicks in and there are no limits that include a lack of regard for his actions. I don't know if we will ever see a more mellow or normal reaction when the chips don't fall his way, but I sure hope we do during the remainder of his career.

sessions

Quote:

Actually we can only judge the situation once all the car excuses are gone

Well no, we judge the situation on known facts not some sort of hopeful wish for future success. The known facts are that our rubbish whining un-proven number two driver scored 142 points and had podium finishes while our old age number one driver scored only 72 and raced half the season with the back markers.

Quote:

Wow Rosberg knows dog cars, great, where’s the help in that unless you want 4th-7th in the championship year after year”

That’s not really an argument is it, given that he scored twice as many points as the great one. You are suggesting that it is better to score 72 points compared to 142. Maybe in your schumi world but not in the real world. For all you know, if next years car is better Nico will be even further ahead of MS

Quote:

driver that is more interested in promoting themselves than their team

When I read that, for a second I thought that you were talking about scumacher, given he is the one who has had their day, has had a full career, and who is in reality just occupying a seat that would be better filled by someone with some potential. A dog in a manger, who is holding the team back.

Quote:

whilst MS kept his mouth shut in press interviews, shouldering the blame himself instead

Presumably you didn’t see the interviews where he was telling all that the tyres don’t work for him, about his faulty F duct, the ones where Ross came out to trot out excuses on his behalf, the report where he wanted Merc to put out a statement to say that it wasn’t his fault and that Merc hadn’t given him a proper car [the same car in which Nico was scoring podiums BTW. LOL]

Quote:

I'm just saying that if MS (not just the car) is suddenly more competitive next year”

Why would he be? He had 17 opportunities to be suddenly more competitive, so what makes you think next year will be any better? Will he suddenly remember how to drive over the winter? Is that your prediction?

Quote:

MS may have been telling the complete truth

Oh yes, of course, he is known for his honesty and integrity isn’t he?

When you say “telling the truth”, telling the truth about what? You have just said above that he kept his mouth shut about the car, and now you say he was telling the truth about the car. You can’t have it both ways so which is it ???

Regards

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

I have to say we have a very controversial pair of drivers and the comments made by both factions are well thought out and without personal assaults.
I like to thank all those who post in this mature fashion, and I feel our site is going in the right direction. I'm pretty sure it will flourish in the future if this type of integrity continues to be practiced.

Thanks, sessions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:17:21:08:07 by sessions.

Quote:
Actually we can only judge the situation once all the car excuses are gone

Well no, we judge the situation on known facts not some sort of hopeful wish for future success. The known facts are that our rubbish whining un-proven number two driver scored 142 points and had podium finishes while our old age number one driver scored only 72 and raced half the season with the back markers.

That is stretching it a bit don't you think. Only Merc know the facts

Well,in an attempt to stay as objective as possible, I must say, I felt neither really whined all that much. So I guess I'll have to pay closer attention to what they both say. I think Michael knows a how to handle the press and choose his words better than Nico, but in all honesty Michael has been around and I expect him to impart things better than a 27 year old.
Nico is still growing and he'll slip up or misread things more often
Their performance IMO was a little closer than the numbers indicated, but MS surely has to take a good look at the split. 142 to 72 is something I'm sure he doesn't want to see repeated. It may have been even a greater divide if Webber hadn't smacked Nico.
Anyway its history and I'm looking forward to a better situation next year. I hope it's a see-saw battle and the car is closer to the front runners.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:12:18:02:19:31 by sessions.

Quote:

f2005
Quote:
Actually we can only judge the situation once all the car excuses are gone

Well no, we judge the situation on known facts not some sort of hopeful wish for future success. The known facts are that our rubbish whining un-proven number two driver scored 142 points and had podium finishes while our old age number one driver scored only 72 and raced half the season with the back markers.

That is stretching it a bit don't you think. Only Merc know the facts

Ummmm, known facts are also the MS had serious car issues at quite a few events (team & driver have stated it after the season is over), so that MUST factor in in the 142/72 comparison unless you aren't being objective. hmmmm...


& as for the stretching it comment? You are right, only Merc know the facts, so you simply assuming that Nico flogged MS & that is the end of it can be just as easily interpreted as "Stretching it" too......

So what was your point exactly again?

Nico had his wheel came off (2 times, Japan+ Hungary) and Webbo hitting him etc.

MS issue about he having more trouble/different car was with passive F-Duck. And we dont know how much trouble Nico had with it,coz he hasnt said anything about it in public.

Im sure 2011 the passive F-duck will work perfectly for both. (if it can be used)

Quote:

DownUnderThunder

Quote:

f2005
Quote:
Actually we can only judge the situation once all the car excuses are gone

Well no, we judge the situation on known facts not some sort of hopeful wish for future success. The known facts are that our rubbish whining un-proven number two driver scored 142 points and had podium finishes while our old age number one driver scored only 72 and raced half the season with the back markers.

That is stretching it a bit don't you think. Only Merc know the facts

Ummmm, known facts are also the MS had serious car issues at quite a few events (team & driver have stated it after the season is over), so that MUST factor in in the 142/72 comparison unless you aren't being objective. hmmmm...


& as for the stretching it comment? You are right, only Merc know the facts, so you simply assuming that Nico flogged MS & that is the end of it can be just as easily interpreted as "Stretching it" too......

So what was your point exactly again?

You seem to be attacking the wrong poster... I was only quoting an earlier post by Herman lol...

Quote:

f2005

Quote:

DownUnderThunder

Quote:

f2005
Quote:
Actually we can only judge the situation once all the car excuses are gone

Well no, we judge the situation on known facts not some sort of hopeful wish for future success. The known facts are that our rubbish whining un-proven number two driver scored 142 points and had podium finishes while our old age number one driver scored only 72 and raced half the season with the back markers.

That is stretching it a bit don't you think. Only Merc know the facts

Ummmm, known facts are also the MS had serious car issues at quite a few events (team & driver have stated it after the season is over), so that MUST factor in in the 142/72 comparison unless you aren't being objective. hmmmm...


& as for the stretching it comment? You are right, only Merc know the facts, so you simply assuming that Nico flogged MS & that is the end of it can be just as easily interpreted as "Stretching it" too......

So what was your point exactly again?

You seem to be attacking the wrong poster... I was only quoting an earlier post by Herman lol...

Whoops, I got lost in the quotes & thought the whole 2nd section was your comment, not that you were quoting Munster too....

My bad, & probably explains my confusion as to what your point was!

ha ha.

My point was that in any judgement situation, opinions are formed on known facts, not a hope for something which might or might not happen in the future.

The known facts in this case are that our number two driver scored 142 points and had podium finishes while our one driver scored only 72 and raced half the season with the back markers. We therefore conclude that he was a failure and a dissapointment to the team and himself this season.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

They are only your interpretation of the publicly known facts, unfortunately as f2005 pointed out no one really has a clue what might be the case behind closed doors, suffice to say if MS was really as bad as you say now I'm sure Ross would have ditched him a while ago......& he is still there.


Other known facts 7wdc's v 0 WDC's & don't even get me started on the race wins hahaha, moral of the story is statistics can be used to prove anything Munster, it just depends how you choose to manipulate the numbers to suit a particular point of view..

Oh & if you are going to argue that MS's statistics don't count because there were other factors going on behind closed doors that made it look like he was better than he is or something along those lines, well good, because you are then acknowledging that just as MS's stats may create a false impression in your view, ROS stats this year can do the same in the view of others...

LOl MS fans always trot out the old statistics yackety yak. Dont get me started on his past favouritism, cheating, and disgusting attitude to the concept of "sport".

The only facts / statistics relevant in 2010 are the 2010 results which demonstrate a total failure 142/72 was a significant thrashing and I loved every moment.

Merry Christmas

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Okay, time to leave this site for good. I can see nothing will never change here. Lack of discipline and rules is what's wrong with TotalMercedesGP. So sad, I would've liked to discuss everything about the team and its drivers, but unfortunately, as long as trolls are allowed to do whatever they like, that's not gonna happen.
You will be the end of this site, and I'm sure that's what you want.

Wellcome back again FF!!!

Hope you stay now longer while Herminator is on holidays. So you dont have to fight u2.

Its not all about MS vs. Nico you know.

Why cant we all just bash Alonso and leave MS and nico be. That would make this site united.

Quote:

Herman Munster
LOl MS fans always trot out the old statistics yackety yak. Dont get me started on his past favouritism, cheating, and disgusting attitude to the concept of "sport".
The only facts / statistics relevant in 2010 are the 2010 results which demonstrate a total failure 142/72 was a significant thrashing and I loved every moment.

Merry Christmas

Now now, Munster,if some statistics are relevant then ALL statistics are relevant :-)

Formula Fan, you ain't gonna change munsters (or other's) minds about MS (trust me I've tried hahaha), best thing is to agree to disagree & post your own opinions up here too, everyone is entitled to have their say & this way at least we have some (healthy ?? haha kidding) debate!

Timba, totally agree mate, Alonso is the REAL bad sport of F1 & doesn't seem in any hurry to change the way he goes about business. Bad for the sport but then again someone had to take over from MS as the most hated driver eventually. Congratulations Mr Alonso, you have inherited Herr Schumachers title!

Why do people here hate Alonso?

is that a trick question?

regards tt

Pitts,

Do you find this site has a problem with Alonso ? I personally think he's one of the top drivers in our current batch of guys out there. My only criticism is he whines a little when the chips are down, but his driving talent is top drawer.
In reality, Alonso is my least concern.
Our drivers create a division of our fans that requires lots of objectivity and as much give and take as possible by our valued posters.
IMHO we got two of the best also and if the car improves we could be in for a very interesting season. I'd love to see either guy or both mixing it up with the front runners.

sessions

Alonso is the golden child that has a bank pharting after him....

Anyone with that power can be as talented as they want to be

Those in Macca and Renault know him as Damien Nano... He can bring down a house and be the last man standing with rubble around him lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:06:08:36:09 by f2005.

the man (for the lack of a better word) first uses stolen IP, than blackmails his co-conspirators.... in some parts of the society such behaviour is punished with extreme prejudice.

the cherry on top for me was the sense of entitlement betreyed by his ridicolous gesture towards petrov after failing to win the championship. talk about arrogance....

regards tt

EDIT: i almost forgot; he already promised his fans next year's championship as this years christmass present. cheap, and arrogant...

EDIT 2: typos



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:06:03:21:31 by turboturtle.

Yeah, Why do some people hate him. He's a great sportsman isnt he?

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Alonso is greater than any champion before him. He was the best driver of the lot despite not winning the WDC

It will be interesting to know which principals voted for him

yes, but what matters is who won the championship. gp history is filled with drivers who should have won championships. in the end they didn't. i'm sure alonso himself would have traded the team principals' award for the real championship.

regards tt

ps driver's ability is not an easy quantifiable. the same princials who hail alonso as best on the grid, employed drivers like kovi, ralf or badoer....

having said that, alonso is one of the best drivers. who is the best? well, the common approach is to determine that on yearly basis, by holding a series of races...

Quote:

turboturtle
yes, but what matters is who won the championship. gp history is filled with drivers who should have won championships. in the end they didn't. i'm sure alonso himself would have traded the team principals' award for the real championship.
regards tt

ps driver's ability is not an easy quantifiable. the same princials who hail alonso as best on the grid, employed drivers like kovi, ralf or badoer....

having said that, alonso is one of the best drivers. who is the best? well, the common approach is to determine that on yearly basis, by holding a series of races...

I was being sarcastic.... Never heard how the winner of the WDC was not the best driver of the season to the extent that team principals needed to vote on it lol

To say that the best driver is the winner of the WDC is far too simplistic.

It doesn't take into account many other factors, like car peformance, strategems, tyre wars, other cars crashing into them, reliability etc.

Alonso is reconed to be the best cos he won the WDC in 2005 and 2006 in a car which was far from fastest. That type of indiviual performance beats anyone who drives the fastest car without any real competion. That is what is recognised by those in the know.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Quote:

Herman Munster
To say that the best driver is the winner of the WDC is far too simplistic.
It doesn't take into account many other factors, like car peformance, strategems, tyre wars, other cars crashing into them, reliability etc.

Alonso is reconed to be the best cos he won the WDC in 2005 and 2006 in a car which was far from fastest. That type of indiviual performance beats anyone who drives the fastest car without any real competion. That is what is recognised by those in the know.

So what is the point of a WDC championship?

The more you get into F1 and put aside your feelings towards a certain German, the more it seems you know little of F1

How do you think Fangio won some of his championships? He basically took the car of his team mate and finished the race lol

Stirling is a fine gentleman but never a WDC, thanks to Fangio and team orders at the time lol

All people remember is who won the title, not who was voted the best by team principals lol. I can not recall who was voted last year let alone the last few years but I can call off the WDC's going back many a time

Taking your bait on 2005, yes Alonso won and not because of any extraordinary strategies... Kimi drove the socks off an unreliable car that just did not know how to finish a race without an incident.... Yet everyone forgets the mass damper that was fitted to Alonso's car lol

Is it not ironic that Honda got punished but REnault walked and it was only in 2006 when other teams threatened to use the device that it was banned, yet the Ferrari flexible wings were clipped immediately at the beginning of the season and the rear wings were clipped just as they were on a winning streak lol. Strange how a driver criticises his team of not wanting him to win the WDC lol

Despite that Alonso deserves his titles

FYI...this is a curve ball

I think Keke was the WDC that was crowned without winning a single race... No one cares what the conditions were

Quote:

So what is the point of a WDC championship?

Oh dear you seem to struggle with the complexity of this. The point is that it is an annual contest which has many factors and facets as I explained above.

As I said, to say that the best driver is the winner of the WDC is far too simplistic.

It doesn't take into account many other factors, like car performance, stratagems, tyre wars, other cars crashing into them, reliability, FIA favouritism etc.

That is my point dear boy, its a complex set of circumstances which combine to produce a WDC, and that WDC is not necessarily the best driver as you implied.

Perhaps if you wind your neck in a bit and read through the posts a few times it will be easier for you to understand what’s been written.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

"To say that the best driver is the winner of the WDC is far too simplistic."

i didn't say that the best driver is the winer of the championship. i said that this has been the method so far. i also wrote:"driver's ability is not easy quantifiable".

regards tt

ps @f2005 your sarcasm was too good, and i mistook it for genuine fanboism. oops.

Quote:

turboturtle

ps @f2005 your sarcasm was too good, and i mistook it for genuine fanboism. oops.

No probs mate

@munster by dear child, which part of History only remembers who won and not the complexities you talk of

It is far easier for Alonso to win because he was never challenged by his team mate

Talking about strategy, it is strange you ignore the fact that Alonso was part of the strategy call in Abu Dhabi

He asked if Massa was covering Webber instead of focusing on the race. When he was informed that Webber was ahead of Massa, he was part of the call to have him in. His mistake was he thought he only ad to beat Webber.

This is the same guy that was asleep on the last lap if Monaco after over driving in Monaco practice.... and jumped the start light at the start of a race, then overdrive his car... Then misread the situation in Spa to put unnecessary pressure on the team,.... Oooh how can I forget Malsysia where he made a call to wait instead of going out... This is coming from a Tifosi lol..without reviewing the season in full

You would not think it was from a 2 times WDC if you were new to F1 lol... That is what got the principals vote then I rest my case

Its funny how some of scumachers fanboys have never forgiven Alonso for beating him to the titles in 2005-6 despite the fact that Alonso's Renault was no match for schumachers ferrari.

I am no fan of Alonso's but he was and still is a far better racer than schumacher. That Monaco overtake thing was just MS trying his old rule bending tactics to get his ugly mug in the papers, and in that he succeeded.

Alonso and schumacher are like two peas in a pod, both will cry and whinge to get their way, both want their team mate to support and not race them, both can loose their heads under pressure. I think their are two main differences though, one is that Alonso has far more class, the other is that Alonso can win in a car which is slower than the competition.

Come on fanbois, your hero and your worst enemy are very similar people.

In the Pitts and Herman

This is a Mercedes GP site which includes Michael Schumacher and more importantly Michael Schumacher fans. They post here because he is their favorite just as others post here because of Nico or Mercedes being their favourites. We need all enthusiastic F1 posters and it’s our job to accommodate everyone in a cordial way.
When this board remained dormant for a period of time during last season, I felt it should be rightfully represented and our team was formed. Since the re-open we have endeavoured to create a friendly atmosphere to support both drivers and Mercedes.
Of course there are different opinions and thoughts which may lead to mooted discussions. This is something that occurs in all forums and makes them exciting, but there are limitations to how cynical and redundant slams have to be.
My initial intent as a monitor was to be fair and not censor or warn anyone as long as personal attacks were not aimed at each other, but during the short time this site has resumed both your posts repeatedly degrade Michael. Anyone coming here as a new poster or as a Schumacher fan must want to run and hide. This is something I personally will not tolerate and feel it has to be addressed openly in an attempt to show my urgent concern over our intended direction. My aim is to have posters come here to further their enjoyment of the sport, and not click off in animosity.
So, as of now you are both still welcome, but consider this a warning if your posts are only intended to ruffle the fur of those who come here to communicate in a civil manner you will serve the consequences.
Guys it’s really time for you to revise your input to help enhance this site rather than detract from it.

Most sincerely, sessions

Also please point out how the Bennetons were faster than the Williams of the era.......... Johnny Herbert, Jos the boss etc there was a list of them as teammates & they were all on average 1.5 seconds a lap slower. They all stated the same thing "His car control is incredible, how does he keep it on the road, If I set my car up like his I crash within a lap."

I'd believe their opinions over yours Pits & munster, being that they were professional drivers, part of the team & privvy to Schumacher's driving secrets & this is what they believed.

It used to get ridiculous seeing one benneton only qualify 10th-16th & the other be on pole or at least in the top 3 & then win the race. & this is not out driving a average performing car? Wake up, you might dislike him but you cannot argue with his talent or achievements in f1..

Sessions I hear what you say.

It won't have gone un-noticed that there are only four sportnetwork F1 forums running at the moment, and this one is even more busy than the Ferrari forum. I am a regular poster here and I assume that I help to keep it busy.

---------------------------------------------------
Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Quote:

sessions
In the Pitts and Herman
This is a Mercedes GP site which includes Michael Schumacher and more importantly Michael Schumacher fans. They post here because he is their favorite just as others post here because of Nico or Mercedes being their favourites. We need all enthusiastic F1 posters and it’s our job to accommodate everyone in a cordial way.
When this board remained dormant for a period of time during last season, I felt it should be rightfully represented and our team was formed. Since the re-open we have endeavoured to create a friendly atmosphere to support both drivers and Mercedes.
Of course there are different opinions and thoughts which may lead to mooted discussions. This is something that occurs in all forums and makes them exciting, but there are limitations to how cynical and redundant slams have to be.
My initial intent as a monitor was to be fair and not censor or warn anyone as long as personal attacks were not aimed at each other, but during the short time this site has resumed both your posts repeatedly degrade Michael. Anyone coming here as a new poster or as a Schumacher fan must want to run and hide. This is something I personally will not tolerate and feel it has to be addressed openly in an attempt to show my urgent concern over our intended direction. My aim is to have posters come here to further their enjoyment of the sport, and not click off in animosity.
So, as of now you are both still welcome, but consider this a warning if your posts are only intended to ruffle the fur of those who come here to communicate in a civil manner you will serve the consequences.
Guys it’s really time for you to revise your input to help enhance this site rather than detract from it.

Most sincerely, sessions

It's hard to ignore that Michael earned over $400k per championship point while Nico earned about $52K.

I think animosity aside numbers do not lie?

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

Interesting.

I just joined this forum site thinking I would find a proper Mercedes GP team support fan base and here we are surrounded with Anti-Schumacher "know-it-alls" pretending to be this team's fans. Pfff...
Mercedes GP has just been born in 2010 and MS is one of their 1st drivers as is Nico Rosberg so the ones flaming at him and his performance should go back to their McLaren forums etc where it hurt to see him beat their hero's back when he was at Ferrari and stop finding excuses to throw mud at his legacy.
It's not like JV, Mika Hakinnen or any of the drivers he beat won Championships on their 1st drives. MS returns from a 3 year absence and if the team bosses thought he deserved to drive then just shut it and watch him and Nico racing.
IMO he should have never returned but if he's there and I support Mercedes GP then I want BOTH drivers to do well and no crappy comments like " he deserves this coz he was that and this and blah blah blah" It shows that you are not a real MGP fan but just a forum troll.
Bring on 2011 and Forza MGP, Schumi and Nico!

Hello Spartan, welcome to our happy forum, it’s always nice when a “New” fan joins in.

You will find a wide range of views under discussion here during the closed season, and surely that is a healthy thing otherwise it would just descend into a self congratulatory back slapping club like you will have seen with our friends at the ferrari forum.

The views expressed here are indeed wide ranging. From those like myself who are keen supporters of MGP, and who want to see us have the best possible driver line up for future dominance of the sport. [this of course in my view does not include Michael Schumacher as he is the past not the future]. To those who perhaps hold the opinion that just because he dominated F1 years ago, he, even at 42 years of age is above criticism and remains the best bet for the future of MGP. [They perhaps are only here because of Schumacher’s involvement, and without this MGP forum would have no-where to hang their hat.] They like yourself are entitled to that opinion of course, but the validity of that opinion is debatable - which is what we do - debate it.

Amongst our other threads, we do have some robust discussions; they are usually conducted without insults, [even with the antipodeans] or needing comments like "Know it alls" or suggesting that people "shut up". That sort of stuff is quite rude and an intelligent response would be preferable.

This forum is for all fans of MGP and all opinions, however, it isn't the Michael Schumacher appreciation society – well not yet anyway.

Welcome, I am sure you will enjoy it here.

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Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:21:15:56:39 by Herman Munster.

Quote:

Herman Munster
Amongst our other threads, we do have some robust discussions; they are usually conducted without insults, [even with the antipodeans]

Is that a fact, we can't insult antipodeans, I've never seen that in writing, come on wheres the fun in that??

Spartan202,

First of all welcome aboard. I missed your initial post a week ago, so excuse my late greeting.
Yes our debates are robust, but our team will do our best to monitor any personal slurs or constant criticism of our team.
As you can plainly see (or read) we have people on both sides of our drivers issue.
We happen to have two of the best, I might add and one of them carries very heavy credentials. Granted, he his been away and he has had a season to readjust to the sport. We at Mercedes think he will be very competitive in 2011.
We all hope the car has improved and it will give (BOTH) our pilots the opportunity to excel.
As mentioned things do get robust, and at times statements become less thought out, but overall we generally have well informed race fans. (not know it all's)
In closing I personally hope you will post on a regular basis. We need opinions and would enjoy hearing yours.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:01:31:17:48:02 by sessions.

Thanks for the welcome
I have been following F1 since 97 and I apologize if I was a bit harsh on MS critics, back then he was at his best so for me he will always be F1 no matter how he performs. He was always there to fight it out. I admit that I support him as a driver but I also support MGP a lot and wish the WHOLE team to do good and I would never dream or post as my signature a picture of one of our drivers crashing. I find that a bit out of place. Anyways to everyone his own way of showing support I suppose. I'd rather have our drivers lifting trophies as a pic. In due time they will come, MS and Brawn did it with Ferrari, they'll do it with MGP and Nico is one of the most talented young drivers out there with the right machinery he is MGP's future. I look forward to seeing BOTH our drivers at the front, roll on 2011!

Spartan202.

Spartan,

Good post. good attitude. many of us feel the same way. Hope this season is an improvement over 2010. Knowing past performances of our players, be it Mercedes themselves, our drivers, Ross and all our team members, we should have faith that they will move forward.

As far as all the ways our posters express their individual views is kind of what makes the world go around. If we all had the same approach doesn't necessarily mean it would work for the better.


sessions

Welcome Spartan!

As a few people have said, I think we welcome all views & input & even though you will quite often see some of us sitting on opposite sides of the fence when it comes to certain issues like our drivers etc I think it is a healthy sign that we can have these discussions & be so passionate about the sport we love, even if we all love it for slightly different reasons.

Hope to see you here throughout the 2011 season mate, it looks like its going to be a good one! :-)

Spartan welcome.

You will find a broad mix of opinions here. Some love MS because he won every race year after year. Some loath and detest him because of the unsporting way it was done compounded by his massive arrogance. [Their words not mine].

Hope you stay with us for 2011.

Lol. Find me an F1 driver without an ego and I will stop watching F1

Strange how Button won the championship unsportingly according to Rubens yet he is sgainst team orders cos he knows Lewis the great is the Chosen one

In the pits... Alonso is of the opinion he deserves to ne treated like MS, so too does Kubica

Seems like they have not read your chronicles yet

All I can say that when one is so much successful in his career you'll find as many haters as much as fans, what is beyond my understanding is when one supports the same team and wishes bad stuff to one of our drivers?! If MGP is to win the WCC it needs both drivers to win, they make the calls to who drives their beautiful machinery so we just support the pair that are lucky to score points. It's like getting Lewis Hamilton or Alonso, they are not my favorites but I would support them all out if they drive our cars.
Yes I do not like the dirty tricks in the past but the greatest were all known for being even worse! take Senna, he would say before the race he would take out a certain driver yet he is considered as the greatest. After all we can't fully blame MS for team orders as we clearly saw it last year being done to Felipe for Alonso so who did the calls? Probably it was Ferrari's doing and policy to support one driver more than the other. I never liked it anyways as if a driver is that good he wouldn't need any dirty tricks or help

P.S. I can't wait for the first couple of races to get a clear picture of where we stand!!!

I'm not going to be drawn into a debate on schumachers lack of sportsmanship, suffice to say, I've yet to see Alonso, hamilton etc park on the racing line in qually or deliberately run into another car to prevent them taking a WDC. They know what is acceptable and what is over the line.

Quote:

In The Pits
I'm not going to be drawn into a debate on schumachers lack of sportsmanship, suffice to say, I've yet to see Alonso, hamilton etc park on the racing line in qually or deliberately run into another car to prevent them taking a WDC. They know what is acceptable and what is over the line.

Lol see Spartan, there is more than one around here :-). I don't get it either, but sometimes they post some funny stuff so just take it with a grain of salt!

DOH Clicky





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:02:15:10:34:08 by In The Pits.