The Chinese Grand Prix, Qualifying , and Practices

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:05:20:22:19:18 by sessions.

I think mercedes need to do what Mclaran have done and copy red bull, introduce the new exaust system and better front wing. They also need to fix their DRS system which has caused them problems and make all the electronics work in the car efficiently. hopefully this will help them catch up to the renult and also maclaran and give them better chance in races. good luck to the mercedes team.

Red Bulls dominance is due to the Adrian newey factor, just as Ferrari's dominance was due to Rory Byrne.

We need to find our own wizard not copy others

---------------------------------------------------
Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

The way I see it is that if Mercedes is serious about succeeding in this sport they need to be ready to fork out some serious money to lure the big fish in on the caliber of Newey and co. Otherwise they will be like any other budget team happy to just finish a race.

Pits,

You must think I was BSing you. You can't make one comment without slamming.

The car isn't performing not the drivers,

That's why your post is gone.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:12:23:25:31 by sessions.

Adrian Newey has just extended his contract at Red Bull so I don't see MGP aquiring his services anytime soon and anyway, he has effectivly already worked for Mercedes whilst they were part owners of Macca.

What MGP need is the next A Newey and who's to say they don't already have him or her on board.

What MGP need is time to develop the car and that's not easy in a formula that bans in season testing, & has resourse restrictions in place to stop you spending your way out of trouble.
Which effectively means if you don't have a front running car at the start of the season you'd better hope your wind tunnel and CFD are better than anyone else's so you can out develop them or put all your resourses into next years car.

MGP are in effect a 2 year old manufacturer team which bought into the Brawn GP fairy tale. I know they also bought all the high tech stuff Honda had invested in but if your honest who would have guessed, given their previous record that Honda nee Brawn would have produced not just a GP winner, but a WDC & WCC winning car.
So my point is that just because Mercedes bought the previous years winning team it didn't mean they would compete at the front anytime soon.
For a start off Brawn had to reduce it's staffing levels from well over 600 to almost half that amount and that's go to have had an effect of some sort, also the 09 car had an edge with it's double diffuser which effectively gave JB and RB the championships.

In our favour is the fact that it has shown in testing that it did have the pace to compete at the front.
I do believe that fundementally MGP have a good car, its true to say that most of the issues seem to be surrounding the Kers and DRS.
Brawn didn't have Kers so most of the team have no experience with it even though of course Mercedes do.

Once we have a weekend without any of these stupid failings it will a least give the team and us a chance to look at where the car is.
Unlike some I reckon MS and NR are a good pairing and have delivered all that is possible from the car at the moment.

Here's hoping we have a trouble free weekend and MS or NR put the car in the RB/ Macca / Ferrari mix

Think I've rambled enough for now and the men in white coats say it's time for my medication.

MS 5th on the grid NR 6th assuming we have a trouble free weekend.

Mercedes Chinese GP preview.

Michael: is looking forward to the race and is fired up as much as everyone else on our team. The team feels they have learned from Malaysia and have an open mind and are full of ambition. We will put on a good show for our fans.

Nico: the circuit is an enjoyable challenge where he finished 3rd last year. He is hoping to turn a new wheel in a positive direction. We also know more performance is there when every system is working together.

Brawn: with back to back races there's little time to make significant changes, however we are looking at areas where we can make improvements. "We are looking forward to our visit."

Haug: this is the second race in eight days and a challenge to all teams. Temperatures are expected to be 20 degrees lower which will most likely influence tyre challenges.
We are expecting a difficult weekend, however lap times in the latter part of the race improved relative to the competition. We will be taking the necessary steps to improve.

source Pit pass.

sessions



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:13:00:35:53 by sessions.

I think if Michael can set a time at Shanghai like he did in 2004 then I think he put on a good show for the fans.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

I was hoping that we would have fought Ferrari clearly it wasnt the case.

RB is strong and if they get the KERS issues fixed and some new upgrades they will be even stronger.

Macca made the new exhaust (RB copy) and upgrades work just in time and Hammi Button due can fight with RB in Q and even at race.

Ferrari has trouble with Q but at race they are one of the fastest. If they get the Q issues related to tires working. They might be able to fight for win.

Renault seems to have really great package now, with great downforce package from the front exhaust. 2 podium finishes in a row, not bad.

So where is MGP now. If all the problems are fixed can we fight these teams. What i have seen. The answer is not positive. There is a long way. I cant really understand what happened, why the development work done for W02 since half season 2010 failed. All these issues now faced should have been tested, double tested, and trible tested already. I just cant understand it. Were they sleeping this whole time.

But anyways its interesting to see if MGP can fight back. But it will not be easy.

There is many issues W02 is facing.

It is rather strange, I agree. When Brawn GP came up with the defuser they jumped to the front of the pack. Renault with their exhaust idea kind of did the same. McLaren adopted it the eleventh hour and are also competitive.
We expected a break through with decent speeds at the end of the pre-season, but it looks like everyone thought they were further ahead than they actually were. Hope they can tweak what they do have to at least get both cars points in China.

sessions

Sessions

You said you deleted a post, was that the post regarding the cost of bringing in a Hamilton or an Alonso????

If so, what was wrong with that? I wasn't slamming. I was joining in and expressing an opinion regarding examining our whole package.

Why are you so aggressive towards me? geez its getting so I cant join in a simple discussion anymore.

My woman rings me up all emotional to say rain is forecast in Hawaii all week.

I suggested she should be sure to wear a hat and coat. She laffed.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

Cool temperatures and chance of rain in China!

Anyways, i rather see dry weekend for getting the car fixed. Setup time maximum.

Higher rake. New Front wing. RB exhaust. Working KERS, DRS and better aero package, thank you!!

I agree with Herman's earlier post about bringing in talent like a Newey. As a person who was a huge JV fan that watched this team grow from BAR to Honda, then to some extent, be reborn as Brawn, it interests me to see the talented people be brought in only to either be dismissed or leave.

Geoff Willis should not be muddling around at the bank with HRT. The man showed he can design a challenger when he penned the 2003-2006 (if memory serves correctly) Honda's that steadily moved up the grid.

They have also had a couple of really talented guys leave (and go back to Sauber and/or Williams if I recall correctly). It makes me wonder what is going on there.

I had high hopes for the team when Merc came in, but now wonder if just another boardroom-run team that can't reach the top. I hope I am wrong, but this start of the season is worrying.

Sauber have shown that all the tech in the world will do no good without the money to run it AND the talent to work it properly. Enter James Key along with Carlos Slim, and look what is going on with the little team again...very positive signs.

I hope the cold weather will bode well for the Merc this weekend, the tires will hold, and Nico and Michael can get on with some serious racing. Again, if they can make Q3 and both finish in the points...that is a weekend's success at this point, and good way to head back to Europe to re-group and try to push forward.

Eloquent post ... Adrian continues to win so there is I think some truth in what you say.

Though I must remind you Byrne was to Ferrari as Newey was too Williams, McLaren and now Red Bull.

I think that does not happen by chance?

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

The Contrarian.

Though never a fan of JV I have to say I thought he was either to trusting of his then manager, nieve, or in it for the money. I prefer to think it was his manager that led him to effectively end his F1 career.

I am with you 100% on Geoff Willis, just when he'd got the car sorted (I believe JB's first win was in a car designed by Geoff all be it after he'd been put out to grass)
Will never understand why he was effectively sacked by bringing in that Japenese Motorbike engine designer to head the car design department?

Sauber have possibly the best wind tunnel and CFD equipment in F1 si it's not a surprise that with a good technical guy like Jame Keys leading them they have made progress.

MGP as I have suggested earlier, have had far to many kers and drs issues in the first couple of races to have any real idea where they fit exactly in the pecking order but i am sure it's not up with RB or MAcca at the moment hopefully this will change and at least they showed some real pace at the end of FP2.

Think it will be another SV pole but not by that much.
SV will stuggle with his car in the race as at some point the law of averages says he's due a car related retirement.

NR and MS will get good points.

Not to go off on a tangent, Demented, but I have my own take on JV. In fact, I could spend a whole thread talking about his career, what I admire, and what I find are short-comings. I imagine sessions could as well. Phatjack is a familiar name as well that has shared some opinions over the years.

Suffice it to say, that I am a big fan. I think JV is a trusting, loyal, and proud individual (possibly) sometimes to a fault. I am sure the money made it a bit easier to endure, but I do believe that he really believed in what they were doing and thought it could be successful. That is why he stuck it out. What I like about him is his courage and conviction and refreshing (if sometimes painful) honesty.

It is a shame things played out as they did at BAR for him. I saw a frustrated and demoralized individual walk away from something he loved...just doesn't seem right to me.

Anyway, back to this weekend. A reasonable first day. I hope they can continue and increase the pace a bit. Still hopeful for double-points, but realize it may be closer to 10th and than 1st. Maybe I will be surprised...

Quote:

phatjack
Eloquent post ... Adrian continues to win so there is I think some truth in what you say.
Though I must remind you Byrne was to Ferrari as Newey was too Williams, McLaren and now Red Bull.

I think that does not happen by chance?

Thank you, if the compliment was directed at my post. I do firmly believe you need a strong aero guy within the design team to really push the team forward. You are absolutely right about Newey and Byrne. Wasn't Rory at Bennetton as well?

Too bad Merc won't look to bring back a guy like Willis. I don't know who is young and up-and-coming, but hopefully Brawn does and can lure him/her into the team.

Good job Nico. Lets hope the race brings our team results.

sessions

Good job Nico, Ferraris left behind.

Under the guidance of Newey, Willis excelled. Willis was in the right place at the right time.

Newey continues to excel.

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

Qualifying was a nice surpise to me, at least for one driver. Seems Schumi had more issues with the car...two races in a row for him. Frustrating.

Still hoping he can crack the top 10 tomorrow and have a double-points finish. Nico looks good, but the Ferrari's pace in the race has been quite strong. Will be good to see how ours is tomorrow as well.

Poor Heidfeld...unlucky again. Need another blazing start...good thing the Toro Rossos are up the grid so they won't be bouncing off him this time...

Yeah, in both teams RB and MGP the drivers are split more than normal. What's Going on ?

sessions

Good job Mercedes, both finally in the points.
Great race to watch, hats off to Hamilton and Webber.

sessions

Yeah GREAT race, without team telling Nico to brake earlier and save fuel he would have fought for win.

Good job MS nice battle fith Alonso and many others!! He could attack corners and took really aggressive line when turning. Just great!!!

What do you guys think about the fuel issue?? Were they gambling?!?!

I'm not sure about the fuel issue although I think it costed us maybe a little bit. However I think we are closing the gap a little on the front runners which is good (performance wise)...and that there is hope for the rest of the season as they showed that we can compete if things go right. Sooner or later everything must come together.

I also think in general that Nico had a very good drive...bar one mistake...and that he could have finished higher weren't it for the fuel issue. MS also had a good drive and it seemed as some of his aggressiveness is returning, in a good way. All in all i'm happy today as we weren't lucky and improved drastically in my opinion.

Other teams...I was a bit surprised with Renaults performance as I expected slightly better. I expected McClaren to come back but was very surprised with ferrari's performance as I expected a lot better. Webber...excellent drive. Hamilton showed a lot of maturity and his experience showed...also an excellent drive. Massa also showed glimpses of the old Massa and might just become stronger as the season progresses.

Moment of the day...Button stopping in the RB pits



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:10:56:55 by PharLap.

It was so good to see Nico leading and for many laps.

If this was Alonso driving, i wonder how bad his brother could be. Luca??

Massa had another good start, and if he could made his own race strategy surely would come up with better plan than this 2 stopper with ROB.

Vettel had also a bad strategy but i think they went for the 2 stopper because of the bad start he had. By almost winning it shoved how good RB is even with wrong strategy. + he had KERS issues. Basically the KERS was out in the last part of the race.

Webber with 3 stops showed the true pace of RB.

Macca with perfect strategy. Math works in their garage.

I think Renault had just not bad but worse weekend.

MGP brilliant, just brilliant. Maybe the fuel issues were not calculated. And in the next race Nico can go full throttle all the way.

Lotus took out Maldonado and Perez, i think Maldonado was overtaken purely racing. Perez not so sure though.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:12:08:38 by Timba7.

"NICO ROSBERG
“Naturally I’m disappointed with the race today as we know that we didn’t make the most of our opportunity out there. We’ve made a big step with the car this weekend which is really nice to see and we will have better races in future. Leading the race for such a long time was a great feeling but we had issues with the fuel consumption which made it really difficult to fight for position. We could have had a podium finish or maybe more today, but we will learn from this together as a team and make sure that we get the results next time.”

MICHAEL SCHUMACHER
“That was a lot of racing in one Grand Prix this afternoon and very exciting! I had a lot of fun this afternoon and I’m so pleased to see the hard work of our guys paid off this weekend. We have made a big step forward with our car and it worked very well. We are heading towards the first race in Europe now and will bring some upgrades to Istanbul which should help us to improve even more. It is good to leave Asia with a positive feeling.”

ROSS BRAWN
“We had a very encouraging race today from the point of view of our overall pace and performance. Nico and Michael did a fantastic job in making use of what they had, and our strategy and pit stops were very good. It’s disappointing that we had to start looking at fuel saving with Nico which ultimately cost him at least a podium finish. We need to look into why we suffered so much higher fuel consumption in the race than we had experienced in practice, even allowing for the changes in conditions and grip. There was clearly a problem and it’s very frustrating for Nico and the team. However we can take away positives from this weekend in knowing that if we do a decent job, we can be competitive.”

NORBERT HAUG
“The speed of our cars today was very good and much better than I expected. Unfortunately both Nico and Michael had higher fuel consumption than expected and both needed to save fuel for many laps. I am sure that otherwise Nico could have finished on the podium and Michael higher in the points. Both drivers drove excellently today, our strategy was good, the pit stops were well-executed and both cars ran reliably, so that is all positive. Thank you to everyone at MERCEDES GP PETRONAS and Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines for their relentless work. A better result was possible today but we will work very hard to get achieve that sooner rather than later.”

These are still not the results we are all seeking, but compared to the first two GP's we need not to hang our heads nor fret with the anticipation of a long season without performance. Had the fuel consumption problem not existed we may have seen even better results IMHO. We did have pace and they might just start living up why we opt for MGP.

sessions

So you are more disappointed with Rosberg's drive or Michael's?

I would think Nico finishing 5th would be encouraging?

"When you talk, you are repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new." - Dalai Lama

Well done to MGP

Brilliant drive from Nico but that pensioner looks really racey for his age

I hear some of you want him replaced, though

Nico must stop feeling how good it is to lead a race and execute the position. It is what will separate him from the Hamiltons and Vettels. I understand he was looking for the Red Bull when he was leading instead of making a dash for it

It was deja vu seeing MS battle Alonso lol and he really impressed coming from 14th. I think he is still the only one to have won the Chinese Grand Prix from as low as 6th

So let us hope for better in Turkey but I am sure the Tifosi will strike back. Seems Bell has already started working his magic for you

phatjack,

Don't understand your statement. From what I've read so far both MGP cars had to be concerned with fuel consumption.
If that aspect wasn't present they both could have kept the peddle to the metal with possible better results.
Or have you heard differently ?

Anyway. to me this race has given us encouragement.

sessions



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:04:17:20:47:08 by sessions.

f2005 the tifosi better start looking for Fonzo's famous 6/10's a lap coz Mercedes and a few other teams won't be waiting for your red cars to gain ground. A few more laps and the old pensioner would have showed your Fonzo what a Silver Arrow looks like...

Quote:

Spartan202
f2005 the tifosi better start looking for Fonzo's famous 6/10's a lap coz Mercedes and a few other teams won't be waiting for your red cars to gain ground. A few more laps and the old pensioner would have showed your Fonzo what a Silver Arrow looks like...

Lol. He left it in Russia with Petrov

Since the end of last year, the 6/10th has mysteriously gone missing

As a side note, it seems Rosberg can not finish a race higher than his initial grid position

Last year he was making in roads but since Australia and even today the trend continues. Will keep monitoring the situation

Well done Nico, Q in the top ten and then leading for a while. Keep it up. I hope they fill your tanks for the next one.

Much improved performance from Mercedes this weekend, especially after MS's problems with his DRS in qualifying & subsequent low grid result. Good to see us fighting with the Mclarens (one of them anyway) and the Ferrraris etc on pace..

It must be said though, a few crucial mistakes (letting Button pass after locking up making a mistake trying to overtake Massa, etc etc) cost us that podium too, not just the fuel consumption issue....I'm just being realistic.

Still an encouraging performance from both cars, hopefully the upward trend continues with the updates we have coming..

& what an epic race to watch, hopefully there are more like that to come this season!

Yes it was a brilliant race, action on every lap!

I'm not sure what they meant re schumachers DRS, was it stuck open as it was open when he crosses the line ahead of Kobiashi [I think it was him], you could clearly see through the letterbox.

Both drivers were able to go for it, which is great.

I think Nico had the save fuel message and the brake earlier message many laps before. Infact he was still leading the race when he was told to brake earlier.

So basically he had to save fuel since half the race.

The question is. Were they showboating or was it problem that can be fixed??

My view is that car is better but the result are pretty much realistic. If you take onboard too little fuel. Then in the last part you are due to lose places. Just like Massa did few years back.

Yes Timba, I too believe it was not so much a fuel consumption problem but more of a strategic mistake in underfueling the cars after all there were 6 mercedes engined cars out there and the only ones to suffer fuel consumption problems were the manufaturer team.

Nevertheless what a cracking race and it seems MGP have found their mojo from testing.

Great racing from both drivers and MS was particularly exciting to watch.

I'm wondering what sort of strategy tyre wise, will be adopted in Monaco, velencia and hungary where it's difficult to overtake.

Well done team for an exciting race. Well done Nico for a good qually and leading the race. And well done MS for racing hard and fair.

Pits I'm not sure about MS's DRS, it was certainly open when he crossed the line, as you say it could have been stuck open which would explain why he lost the back end on that mad lap.

Great race.

---------------------------------------------------
Well done Lewis. New driver, new era.

Good see the team seems to be on the mend. I agree a strategy mess-up from the get-go. Once they had enough feed back they knew they had to slow the consumption.
Nice we all agree on the race, one of the best of recent times. I hope there's more like that in store.

sessions

Thought I was dreaming seeing the posts from HM and ITPs

What have you done to them sessions lol

f2005,

Not a thing. We are a small group of F1 fans who have chosen to support MGP. Nothing is ever perfect, but what we have to cheer for could be a h e l l of a lot worse. Mercedes just has to utilize the potential it has and we'll see better and better results. Last weekend showed their focus and dedication can pay dividends. On to Turkey...

sessions

Dont worry ferrari if they are rubbish I will say so, but credit where credit is due. Despite Nico not finishing on the podium, I think this was the best performance so far from MGP.

A nice race for the team! And what a race overall, like others have said. Was good fun to watch, for a change.

Schumi looked very racey and Nico did a solid job as well. I am sure they rue the missed podium opportunity for Nico with the fuel concern.

When I heard the radio transmission, I knew it was game over for Nico and a potential win. Was still hoping for possible podium, but not in the cards.

Encouraging result, and hopefully they can build upon this as they head back to Europe. The race in Turkey is always one of my favorites, so I hope this is no exception.

I did not see Schumi's DRS open when crossing the line (just not paying attention, I guess). I did see the replay showing Alonso's open after the back straight, before they head onto the main straight, when he was behind Schumi.

I know they are looking into that, since the FIA ultimately controls usage.