Dont take it too seriously
WWTLAWHL
By Boris Mellor
January 23 2008
Nearly 10 years ago, the 11 th November 1998 to be precise Chelsea beat Arsenal 5-0 at Highbury. Wenger had put out a mixture of youngsters, fringe players, and even Freddy and Dennis. Nothing went right that night, but what a laugh. I do not remember any one leaving early, I know I didn't. We did not even have a sumptuous Adebayor goal to admire.
We sang, “we don’t give a fuck” to knees up mother brown”, and “shit cups you only win shit cups”, to the celebrating blues at the other end. Of course, the next day the press pretended that Chelsea had beaten an all star eleven, and that the balance of power had now shifted to west London.
In fact, I do not remember Chelsea beating us in the league until Mourinho arrived many years later. We went on to win the league two more times, an invincible season, and several cups plus two European finals. Wenger was as phlegmatic as ever. No doubt, some deadly serious Gooners somewhere wanted him sacked, and replaced by a man prepared to burn money (I knew one personally).
Now I know it is nauseating to watch fans celebrate their team doing a lap of honour on getting to the final of a shit cup, but hey, now you know how they feel all the time, for us it is just a bad day at the office. Wish them luck at the big final, and that they can erase the memory that the last time they won it, in fact won anything, George Graham was their manager.
In addition, don’t forget the last time they beat us we went on to nine years of glory and they went on to errr..... win nothing.
Wenger played a stronger eleven against Fulham on Saturday, would you rather he had risked losing points there? I just hope that none of our first team regulars have suffered further injuries with one more match than necessary.
Finally, it would be tempting to start analysing too deeply what went wrong - looking for scapegoats, for example was Fabianski pantski? Hard to tell, he was not to blame for the first two goals, but where was defence for the other three? However, let us not go there, Wenger will learn some things about some players, but as he says, the match is not a conclusion in itself.
Players will learn and benefit from it. Meanwhile fans should relax, Arsenal are still joint top. Played 22 and lost only one against your one time biggest rival is not a bad record, and if you are going to lose one, it was not the worst one to lose. It was only a shit cup.
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Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
Date: 23/01/2008 19:15
Dont take it too seriously
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: dixon9 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/01/2008 16:02
Oh dear!
Bring out the Sarsons!
.
"It is born out of hypocrisy and fundamental insecurity. There have been two kids on the block for the past 12 years. Suddenly, there is a third and that one is threatening to be more successful than the others and they dont like it." P Kenyon.
Bring out the Sarsons!
.
"It is born out of hypocrisy and fundamental insecurity. There have been two kids on the block for the past 12 years. Suddenly, there is a third and that one is threatening to be more successful than the others and they dont like it." P Kenyon.
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Simon68 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/01/2008 16:55
It would only require Sarsons if we had suddenly decided it was a sh*t cup after being knocked out.
However, as you well know dixon, we have said that all along and as you well know also, Arsene Wenger has always used it as a way to blood youngsters which shows where he puts it in the general scheme of things.
I know what position I would rather my team is in.
However, as you well know dixon, we have said that all along and as you well know also, Arsene Wenger has always used it as a way to blood youngsters which shows where he puts it in the general scheme of things.
I know what position I would rather my team is in.
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: dixon9 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/01/2008 18:37
Quote:Simon68
It would only require Sarsons if we had suddenly decided it was a sh*t cup after being knocked out.
However, as you well know dixon, we have said that all along and as you well know also, Arsene Wenger has always used it as a way to blood youngsters which shows where he puts it in the general scheme of things.
I know what position I would rather my team is in.
Oh Id agree with you Simon - Wenger has been consistant in putting out the younger and/or fringe first team players in this competition.
However, I cant help wondering if theres a part of it which is a ready made excuse in case of loss (if you win - your "kids" are wonderful - if you lose it was because you played your kids!) nor do I believe that he or the players feel the competition is not so important as they make out.
While the youngsters are winning, everything is rosy in the garden and the media are only too happy to lap you up. Howver, once the wheels start to come off the posture changes.
You only have to look at last seasons final to see how the Arsenal players reacted as the match neared its end and they realised they were probably going to lose.
Then in midweek Wenger began to panic and gradually throw on more big guns as the score worsened - it was almost a first team Arsenal at the end at White Hart Lane. Then look at the intensity of frustration between Adebayor and Bendtner.
Im sorry but all this hardly constitutes a total attitude of disregard for the competition - you wanted to win, to get to the final and you were prepared, in the end to do whatever necessary to achieve it.
The other point is that many of your kids are among the most expensive around - they are no ordinary youngsters that Wenger has had to take under his wing and develop. Many are bought in from foriegn clubs where they are not that far from being the full article anyway.
.
"It is born out of hypocrisy and fundamental insecurity. There have been two kids on the block for the past 12 years. Suddenly, there is a third and that one is threatening to be more successful than the others and they dont like it." P Kenyon.
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: ArsenalForever (IP Logged)
Date: 25/01/2008 18:42
Denilson, senderos, traore, walcott, bendtner, cesc, diaby, fabianski
they all came in for about the same price as darrent bent
and they were not even close to being the finished article when they came in and they still arent there yet
we cant compete with you and the yanks and the other yanks when it comes down to money which is why we buy young players and remember you bought mikel for what 14 million? thats more than most of those names above combined
and you could say we buy them when they are 15/16 right before they get their professional contracts...and from then on it is based on arsenal to make them who they are...we cant read the future you know...do you think wenger knew cesc or any of the other players were going to be this good when we bought them?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:01:25:18:47:09 by ArsenalForever.
they all came in for about the same price as darrent bent
and they were not even close to being the finished article when they came in and they still arent there yet
we cant compete with you and the yanks and the other yanks when it comes down to money which is why we buy young players and remember you bought mikel for what 14 million? thats more than most of those names above combined
and you could say we buy them when they are 15/16 right before they get their professional contracts...and from then on it is based on arsenal to make them who they are...we cant read the future you know...do you think wenger knew cesc or any of the other players were going to be this good when we bought them?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:01:25:18:47:09 by ArsenalForever.
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Simon68 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/01/2008 20:11
It is not a disregard from Arsene Wenger for the competition.
He plays to win. he expects the players he puts in an Arsenal first team shirt to do it justice. However, as you well know, he uses the competition to give the younger players a chance. Therefore he does not play first teamers unless he has to. Gallas played because he was the only fit CB. Hoyte is a full back. Cesc came on because Denilson was injured.
By picking young players and not first teamers he is saying that they are being saved for more important games.
It's almost like each Premier League team they knock out is a bonus, and we have turned over a lot of EPL full first teams in the last 2 or 3 years and were very unlucky not to win it last year.
Every player who pulls on the shirt wants to win. Of course they do. They care about Arsenal. They aren't here for the money.
As for expensive and nearly the full article - what bollox.
No-one had heard of Fabregas, Flamini, Clichy, Denilson, Diaby, Traore, Bendtner & Eboue for instance. Hoyte has been at Arsenal since he was about 11. There are loads more but just these 9 cost about 4m between them. Expensive? Really?
Going back you can look at Vieira, Cole, Anelka & Toure who were developed at Arsenal and cost about 5m between them. Not bad is it?
He plays to win. he expects the players he puts in an Arsenal first team shirt to do it justice. However, as you well know, he uses the competition to give the younger players a chance. Therefore he does not play first teamers unless he has to. Gallas played because he was the only fit CB. Hoyte is a full back. Cesc came on because Denilson was injured.
By picking young players and not first teamers he is saying that they are being saved for more important games.
It's almost like each Premier League team they knock out is a bonus, and we have turned over a lot of EPL full first teams in the last 2 or 3 years and were very unlucky not to win it last year.
Every player who pulls on the shirt wants to win. Of course they do. They care about Arsenal. They aren't here for the money.
As for expensive and nearly the full article - what bollox.
No-one had heard of Fabregas, Flamini, Clichy, Denilson, Diaby, Traore, Bendtner & Eboue for instance. Hoyte has been at Arsenal since he was about 11. There are loads more but just these 9 cost about 4m between them. Expensive? Really?
Going back you can look at Vieira, Cole, Anelka & Toure who were developed at Arsenal and cost about 5m between them. Not bad is it?
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/01/2008 01:44
Quote:dixon9Quote:Simon68
It would only require Sarsons if we had suddenly decided it was a sh*t cup after being knocked out.
However, as you well know dixon, we have said that all along and as you well know also, Arsene Wenger has always used it as a way to blood youngsters which shows where he puts it in the general scheme of things.
I know what position I would rather my team is in.
Oh Id agree with you Simon - Wenger has been consistant in putting out the younger and/or fringe first team players in this competition.
However, I cant help wondering if theres a part of it which is a ready made excuse in case of loss (if you win - your "kids" are wonderful - if you lose it was because you played your kids!) nor do I believe that he or the players feel the competition is not so important as they make out.
While the youngsters are winning, everything is rosy in the garden and the media are only too happy to lap you up. Howver, once the wheels start to come off the posture changes.
You only have to look at last seasons final to see how the Arsenal players reacted as the match neared its end and they realised they were probably going to lose.
Then in midweek Wenger began to panic and gradually throw on more big guns as the score worsened - it was almost a first team Arsenal at the end at White Hart Lane. Then look at the intensity of frustration between Adebayor and Bendtner.
Im sorry but all this hardly constitutes a total attitude of disregard for the competition - you wanted to win, to get to the final and you were prepared, in the end to do whatever necessary to achieve it.
The other point is that many of your kids are among the most expensive around - they are no ordinary youngsters that Wenger has had to take under his wing and develop. Many are bought in from foriegn clubs where they are not that far from being the full article anyway.
.
And Mikel got how many red cards to-date?...4 isn't it?
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” Saint Thomas Aquinas
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Mr. Clock End (IP Logged)
Date: 26/01/2008 01:59
lol dixon yes we went out there to win of course we did
but you have to admit this cup has never meant much to wenger at all
last years final we played the strongest chelsea team - was gallas there? was henry there? no - instead it was aliadiere and baptista up front- 4th and 5th choice strikers at the time
it was never a priority and because he uses the CC to give most young players the exposure to playing high intensity games (something the reserve league does not do)
surely u must accept that wenger has little regard for this cup dixon?
but you have to admit this cup has never meant much to wenger at all
last years final we played the strongest chelsea team - was gallas there? was henry there? no - instead it was aliadiere and baptista up front- 4th and 5th choice strikers at the time
it was never a priority and because he uses the CC to give most young players the exposure to playing high intensity games (something the reserve league does not do)
surely u must accept that wenger has little regard for this cup dixon?
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/01/2008 08:05
Battle of Cardiff?
It all started with Mikel niggling Kolo all the way. Kolo over-reacted, and the rest is history.
Mikel this season?
Caught and 4 red cards.
Our CC team No. 2 against Spuds:
...................Fabianski
...Sagna.....Hoyte....Gallas....Traore
...Hleb....Denilson...Gilberto...Diaby
............Walcott...Bendtner
CC team No. 1 against Newcastle, Blade and Blackburn
..................Fabianski
...Hoyte.......Senderos....Song....traore (Gibbs)
...Walcott.....Diarra....Denilson....Diaby
...............Eduardo....Bendtner
*****************************************************
In post-mortem analysis, CC Team No. 2 is a recipe for disaster; and was correctly pointed, during the 1st Leg, the signs are there that Young Gunners will be definitely overwhelm by a Spuds team intented to be in the FInal as their very best chance of entering Europe as Cup WInner, a 50% probability.
Why CC Team No. 1 performed so well in beating premeirship teams are simply due to TEAM-WORK of teh following palyers:
- Senderos-Song CB partnership that held out with a large dose of luck against Blackburn.
- Diarra-Denilson in the middle is simply due to teh class of Diarra.
- The partnership of Eduardo-Bendtner had struck up an understanding in comparison to Walcott, the great English Hope, who was no better than a little boy lost against Spuds.
That is, it is not idnividual brilliancy that win matches in this new Arsene Wenger Team; but solid team-work and undestanding that make the passing game so pleasing to the eyes.
No recalled how all the pundits wrote of the ease of passing games executed by these Young Gunners, and PACE & MOVEMENT like their seniors.
*********************************************************
Against Spuds?
1) Denilson was out injured after 19th minute (or is it 10th minute) and the available person on the bench is Fabregas.
2) Djourou, Senderos out injured. We are left with Hoyte and Gallas as Gilberto is back in midfield. And Gilbert is not ready, and Sagna came in.
3) Wenger can't played Clichy even if he wanted to. he is out injured.
4) Wenger promised Walcott a berth as central striker. And there is only Hleb available as "Sick Note" Rosicky is not worth the risk.
5) And we ended up with a team that is playing for the very first time. But worse was to come.
6) Apparently senior players like Fabregas, Helb and Gallas were more interested in NOT getting injured rather than go in ahrd for all 50:50 balls. There was no urgency, no intensity. SImply, Fabregas, Gallas and Hleb were not motivated t give theri best, especially we are down 2-0 in so early stage of the game. Just go and watch your tapes again and analysed it.
7) Wenger always put out a team he believes that will win the match. But apparently, he could not beleive his eyes at the woeful displays of senior players like Gallas, Hleb, Fabregas and GIlberto.
8) And of course, the spectacular collapse of Diaby, Walcott and Gilberto. traore is udnerstandable as we all knew that he is not ready as even during CC matches against Blades and Balckburn, pacy palyers were getting passed him easily.
9) Now, if Wenger is desperate enoguh to win this match, he will bring in Adebayor and Eduardo at the start of 2nd half; and not when we are 4-0 down,
10) When you are 4-0 down against a fired-up opponent, it is definitely a lost cause and every manager will know it.
11) Adebayor and Eduardo were brought in simply to limit damage, and to prevent further damage to the morales of Young Gunners as Spuds were gunning for a criket score like amybe 8-0, 9-0 and even 11-0. They were all fired up to humilaite Arsenal after decades of frustration being 2nd best in North London.
12) As you lots of BLUEASS monkeys and ginger-furred orang utan like to gloat over here, just a little fact like why Wenger brought in like when you are 4-0 down is not to win the game, but as damage control can't even get through your thick-skull. Can't blame you lots of simians as your brains are n your balls - wholly tuned to humping and grunting only.
In summary to all Gooners, it is just a Blip like the Mule in Hari Sheldon 1,000 Year Plan to rebuild the Empire (read Asimov Foundation Trilogy).
******************************************************
...................Fabianski
...Sagna.....Hoyte....Gallas....Traore
...Hleb....Denilson...Gilberto...Diaby
............Walcott...Bendtner
The good thing is that Wenger learnt that:
a) This team will not WORK with GIlberto as an anchor in MIDFIELD.
b) Fabianski is not ready as No. 2.
c) Traore is not good enough to be No. 2.
d) Diaby needs another 1 or 2 seasons (if he is that patience) to prove he is ready as an attacking CENTRAL midfielder playing at high tempo, instead of trying to find a pass and too long in possession, slowing down PACE & MOVEMENT style of this new midfield.
e) if Daby can't demonstrate he has awareness and a football brain to play in this new Arsenal midfield setup, the sign s that he will leave in summer 2008.
f) Walcott is definitely over-rated and still has yet to develop that skills to go pass bully-boys like King and DaWson. FFS, this is his SECOND YEAR with us!!!
g) Defenders now knew that he is all pace and nothing else, and can't even dribble past defenders nowadays. What ail him? Wenger better get his head straigthen right else he is another Jeffers.
h) Perhaps like what Soljesr did for manLeeds, Walcott should be utilised as an imapct central striker, a supersub that can change the game. This will build up his confidence, and experience, thorughout teh whole season. I agreed, it si wrong to loan him out now as it is a huge physcological blow to hsi ego and he may never recovered from it...maybe liek Djourou, so much prmise and returned to us in such a f**k-up condition, devoid of skills and confidence.
But hey, we are GUNNERS, and thsoe suffering and trophyless 3 seasns that we gone through are far far worse than one f**king night of football where our youngsters and senior palyers did not turned up.
It all started with Mikel niggling Kolo all the way. Kolo over-reacted, and the rest is history.
Mikel this season?
Caught and 4 red cards.
Our CC team No. 2 against Spuds:
...................Fabianski
...Sagna.....Hoyte....Gallas....Traore
...Hleb....Denilson...Gilberto...Diaby
............Walcott...Bendtner
CC team No. 1 against Newcastle, Blade and Blackburn
..................Fabianski
...Hoyte.......Senderos....Song....traore (Gibbs)
...Walcott.....Diarra....Denilson....Diaby
...............Eduardo....Bendtner
*****************************************************
In post-mortem analysis, CC Team No. 2 is a recipe for disaster; and was correctly pointed, during the 1st Leg, the signs are there that Young Gunners will be definitely overwhelm by a Spuds team intented to be in the FInal as their very best chance of entering Europe as Cup WInner, a 50% probability.
Why CC Team No. 1 performed so well in beating premeirship teams are simply due to TEAM-WORK of teh following palyers:
- Senderos-Song CB partnership that held out with a large dose of luck against Blackburn.
- Diarra-Denilson in the middle is simply due to teh class of Diarra.
- The partnership of Eduardo-Bendtner had struck up an understanding in comparison to Walcott, the great English Hope, who was no better than a little boy lost against Spuds.
That is, it is not idnividual brilliancy that win matches in this new Arsene Wenger Team; but solid team-work and undestanding that make the passing game so pleasing to the eyes.
No recalled how all the pundits wrote of the ease of passing games executed by these Young Gunners, and PACE & MOVEMENT like their seniors.
*********************************************************
Against Spuds?
1) Denilson was out injured after 19th minute (or is it 10th minute) and the available person on the bench is Fabregas.
2) Djourou, Senderos out injured. We are left with Hoyte and Gallas as Gilberto is back in midfield. And Gilbert is not ready, and Sagna came in.
3) Wenger can't played Clichy even if he wanted to. he is out injured.
4) Wenger promised Walcott a berth as central striker. And there is only Hleb available as "Sick Note" Rosicky is not worth the risk.
5) And we ended up with a team that is playing for the very first time. But worse was to come.
6) Apparently senior players like Fabregas, Helb and Gallas were more interested in NOT getting injured rather than go in ahrd for all 50:50 balls. There was no urgency, no intensity. SImply, Fabregas, Gallas and Hleb were not motivated t give theri best, especially we are down 2-0 in so early stage of the game. Just go and watch your tapes again and analysed it.
7) Wenger always put out a team he believes that will win the match. But apparently, he could not beleive his eyes at the woeful displays of senior players like Gallas, Hleb, Fabregas and GIlberto.
8) And of course, the spectacular collapse of Diaby, Walcott and Gilberto. traore is udnerstandable as we all knew that he is not ready as even during CC matches against Blades and Balckburn, pacy palyers were getting passed him easily.
9) Now, if Wenger is desperate enoguh to win this match, he will bring in Adebayor and Eduardo at the start of 2nd half; and not when we are 4-0 down,
10) When you are 4-0 down against a fired-up opponent, it is definitely a lost cause and every manager will know it.
11) Adebayor and Eduardo were brought in simply to limit damage, and to prevent further damage to the morales of Young Gunners as Spuds were gunning for a criket score like amybe 8-0, 9-0 and even 11-0. They were all fired up to humilaite Arsenal after decades of frustration being 2nd best in North London.
12) As you lots of BLUEASS monkeys and ginger-furred orang utan like to gloat over here, just a little fact like why Wenger brought in like when you are 4-0 down is not to win the game, but as damage control can't even get through your thick-skull. Can't blame you lots of simians as your brains are n your balls - wholly tuned to humping and grunting only.
In summary to all Gooners, it is just a Blip like the Mule in Hari Sheldon 1,000 Year Plan to rebuild the Empire (read Asimov Foundation Trilogy).
******************************************************
...................Fabianski
...Sagna.....Hoyte....Gallas....Traore
...Hleb....Denilson...Gilberto...Diaby
............Walcott...Bendtner
The good thing is that Wenger learnt that:
a) This team will not WORK with GIlberto as an anchor in MIDFIELD.
b) Fabianski is not ready as No. 2.
c) Traore is not good enough to be No. 2.
d) Diaby needs another 1 or 2 seasons (if he is that patience) to prove he is ready as an attacking CENTRAL midfielder playing at high tempo, instead of trying to find a pass and too long in possession, slowing down PACE & MOVEMENT style of this new midfield.
e) if Daby can't demonstrate he has awareness and a football brain to play in this new Arsenal midfield setup, the sign s that he will leave in summer 2008.
f) Walcott is definitely over-rated and still has yet to develop that skills to go pass bully-boys like King and DaWson. FFS, this is his SECOND YEAR with us!!!
g) Defenders now knew that he is all pace and nothing else, and can't even dribble past defenders nowadays. What ail him? Wenger better get his head straigthen right else he is another Jeffers.
h) Perhaps like what Soljesr did for manLeeds, Walcott should be utilised as an imapct central striker, a supersub that can change the game. This will build up his confidence, and experience, thorughout teh whole season. I agreed, it si wrong to loan him out now as it is a huge physcological blow to hsi ego and he may never recovered from it...maybe liek Djourou, so much prmise and returned to us in such a f**k-up condition, devoid of skills and confidence.
But hey, we are GUNNERS, and thsoe suffering and trophyless 3 seasns that we gone through are far far worse than one f**king night of football where our youngsters and senior palyers did not turned up.
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/01/2008 08:16
And also, please read Nadal comments after he was knocked out of SEMI by an unseeded French player, "Muhammad Ali" Tsonga:
'I was playing very fine, very good, but not for beating Tsonga tonight,"
"Right now he is in the best moment of his career. He's playing with zero pressure.
"Everything is good for him. SO when you are playing like this, every ball is going t the line.
"Every ball is going inside. Is not the real level I think.
"Is not his real level. Sure, he can play like this, but now every week. It's impossible.
"Running unbelievable, physically very explosive, everything. What I can say?
"Nothing bad about his game tonight. I have to find something. I gonna think all night."
RAFEAL NADAL - World No. 2 tennis Player.
And what do you know?
World No. 1 Roger Federer got knocked out by Novak Djokovic too.....
So you see friends, every dog got its days, including S*CUMS...
Don't take it too seriously, form is temporary, class is permanent.
'I was playing very fine, very good, but not for beating Tsonga tonight,"
"Right now he is in the best moment of his career. He's playing with zero pressure.
"Everything is good for him. SO when you are playing like this, every ball is going t the line.
"Every ball is going inside. Is not the real level I think.
"Is not his real level. Sure, he can play like this, but now every week. It's impossible.
"Running unbelievable, physically very explosive, everything. What I can say?
"Nothing bad about his game tonight. I have to find something. I gonna think all night."
RAFEAL NADAL - World No. 2 tennis Player.
And what do you know?
World No. 1 Roger Federer got knocked out by Novak Djokovic too.....
So you see friends, every dog got its days, including S*CUMS...
Don't take it too seriously, form is temporary, class is permanent.
Re: Dont take it too seriously
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 26/01/2008 09:14
Fair analysis Merlion, but I am glad Hleb and Fab didnt get injured, we have more important priorities
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