Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Bridge of Sighs
By Boris Mellor
May 6 2009
Twenty-Three Cannot Beat Twenty-Seven. It is obvious that a team average age of 23 cannot beat a team average age of 27 at the top level. Perhaps if the older team was a pub team that trained on pies and bitter all week, for example Portsmouth, then it can. However, when it is a team that is the Champions of Europe, and has several world class players then it cannot.
Fans accuse Wenger of being bland and mimic his mental strength speech, but you could not sum it up better than the man himself did last night, he did not feel we had played in the Semi Final. He also knows the fans played their part and are blameless in what was without exaggeration a fiasco. You cannot get more damming than he was post match without aping the more egotistical and nasty type of manager, Mourinho of whom I think of the first. Nor is it in his nature to destroy a 19-year-old boy.
Arsene Knows
Wenger knows the team has failed the test; it has been measured, weighed and found wanting. It has failed to stand up and be counted in the big matches; it is a fourth class team with only a few first class players.
No doubt fans will dispute whether it the defence or the attack that failed most, but in fact the most important failure was the engine room. It could not wrest control from United, and suffered the indignity of seeing United create more chances. Ferguson's men were always in control. Yes, the ref made some lousy decisions, but Arsenal were incapable of scoring in open play, there are no alibis. That is the reason Wenger has taken it so hard.
Wenger knows that he and the team have let the fans down, indeed made fools of them. That cannot be changed, what can be changed in the very near future is the mix of experience, young and old. A sprinkling of "proper players" can transform this fourth placed team into a great one. If Wenger continues with the "either or" strategy then we are condemned to more barren seasons in the future.
Wenger may choose to continue with his youngster strategy based on 21 unbeaten games in the league, including Liverpool and Chelsea, but he would be mistaken. One problem is that many of the teams in the unbeaten run are just ordinary and give no real competition. True he beat Man U and Chelsea, but ignoring the hype, these were not do or die games at the time. His youngsters fluffed their lines on the big stage three times with no evidence of learning.
I was hoping Arsenal would prove to be a cup team this season; unfortunately, they were not good enough. Instead, they have proved to a very good routine team that can achieve fourth but not any higher. Not a bad achievement with a load of kids, but whether fans are prepared to accept fourth class is debatable.
Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 10:44
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Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 11:20
WENGER HAS FAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he said we should judge him by the end of the season.the season for me ended at old thrafford last week.and my verdict is: face the truth!!! your new kids philosophy has failed this 4th year yet again.
he has spurn this game for 4 years and all he ever achieved was nearly did.is time to call it quits, accept his blunder like a gentle man that he is and do a mass flush out of some class B players and buy real quality.i will respect wenger more if he owns up and performs the drastic change required to get arsenal back from the dungeon of mediocre that he has sunk us too than if he is bent on living in an advanced stage of self denial.
he said we should judge him by the end of the season.the season for me ended at old thrafford last week.and my verdict is: face the truth!!! your new kids philosophy has failed this 4th year yet again.
he has spurn this game for 4 years and all he ever achieved was nearly did.is time to call it quits, accept his blunder like a gentle man that he is and do a mass flush out of some class B players and buy real quality.i will respect wenger more if he owns up and performs the drastic change required to get arsenal back from the dungeon of mediocre that he has sunk us too than if he is bent on living in an advanced stage of self denial.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: djarse (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 11:48
Hard to take last night with such a wonderful atmosphere in the stadium at the start - and even the players looked up for it for the opening 8 minutes !
End of our season - time for sober reflection as Wenger said post-match. We came close to winning the premiership last season. This season, riven by injuries (why do we get so many - that must be part of the inquest), and the loss of key players in the summer, we have struggled in the big games. Essentially, the young team bristles with promise but is just too inexperienced. And it lacks something of the steely backbone of the team that the top 3 possess.
The danger now is we lose key players. Ideally I would keep them all, except maybe Adebayor, who clearly wants away.
We need the replacements that we all said we needed last summer - a world class central defender in Vidic mould to partner Toure or Gallas; a world class defensive midfielder to partner Fabregas; and a world class central striker to replace Adebayor. These are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL or we will only marginally improve lext season.
But there is a lot of hope too, if we can hold on to the players. Arashavin has proved to be world class (without him, our lack of creativity was cruelly exposed against ManU). Eduardo cannot possibly be as unlucky next season as this. Almunia has improved to be a quality keeper (they ALL make occasional mistakes).
Some of the younger players have developed enormously this season - its just that it was too much too early for them to do it on their own without the experienced players in key positions. Think of how Song, Denilson, Walcott, Djourou, Bendtner, Vela have improved - not to mention Wilshere and Ramsey, who may break through next year.
I feel that it could be a great season for us next year but only if Wenger grasps the need for 3 key new world class players. If we need to sell to get them, so be it - there are players we could lose and retain the core strength of the squad.
End of our season - time for sober reflection as Wenger said post-match. We came close to winning the premiership last season. This season, riven by injuries (why do we get so many - that must be part of the inquest), and the loss of key players in the summer, we have struggled in the big games. Essentially, the young team bristles with promise but is just too inexperienced. And it lacks something of the steely backbone of the team that the top 3 possess.
The danger now is we lose key players. Ideally I would keep them all, except maybe Adebayor, who clearly wants away.
We need the replacements that we all said we needed last summer - a world class central defender in Vidic mould to partner Toure or Gallas; a world class defensive midfielder to partner Fabregas; and a world class central striker to replace Adebayor. These are ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL or we will only marginally improve lext season.
But there is a lot of hope too, if we can hold on to the players. Arashavin has proved to be world class (without him, our lack of creativity was cruelly exposed against ManU). Eduardo cannot possibly be as unlucky next season as this. Almunia has improved to be a quality keeper (they ALL make occasional mistakes).
Some of the younger players have developed enormously this season - its just that it was too much too early for them to do it on their own without the experienced players in key positions. Think of how Song, Denilson, Walcott, Djourou, Bendtner, Vela have improved - not to mention Wilshere and Ramsey, who may break through next year.
I feel that it could be a great season for us next year but only if Wenger grasps the need for 3 key new world class players. If we need to sell to get them, so be it - there are players we could lose and retain the core strength of the squad.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 11:52
i agree with most of what you write, but lets get over the injury thing.
Gallas had Song fall on his knee, Eduardo had Rio fall on his groin. RvP injured playing for Holland and has not recovered Groin injuries are like that.
Gallas had Song fall on his knee, Eduardo had Rio fall on his groin. RvP injured playing for Holland and has not recovered Groin injuries are like that.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: BINJ (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 12:23
You can win nafff all with kids According to HANSEN IS HE TRUE OR NOT
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 13:32
We can win with kids.
Just that our senior players got injured at the crucial stage of the season.
Fabregas - out durign November Blip.
Gallas - out after CL CUp qtr-final.
Clichy - out after CL Cup qtr-final.
Walcott otu injured just he got into his stride.
No, this season, please don't blame injuries as we knew it will happen every year since 2003.
Just blame Wenger having blind faith [again] that his youngsters will devleop and ready for senior team by Decemebr 2008..(like last season, ready for senior team by Decemebr 2007].
If Wenegr repeats this same mistake of having "blind faith" THREE YEARS IN SUCCESSION in those youngsters developing and ready by December 2009 - read Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere, Lansbury, Bartley, Nordtveit, Merida - then he should leave in 2010.
Yesterday match was a Last Chance Saloon for him to get 2009/10 squad this time - a mixture of experienced players and youngsters with depth.
The nucleus is there - ALmunia, Gallas, Sagna, CLichy, Gibbs, Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott, Bendtner, Vela, Ramsey, Wilshere, SOng and Denilson.
It si a matter who he will buy to strengthen the squad.
Just that our senior players got injured at the crucial stage of the season.
Fabregas - out durign November Blip.
Gallas - out after CL CUp qtr-final.
Clichy - out after CL Cup qtr-final.
Walcott otu injured just he got into his stride.
No, this season, please don't blame injuries as we knew it will happen every year since 2003.
Just blame Wenger having blind faith [again] that his youngsters will devleop and ready for senior team by Decemebr 2008..(like last season, ready for senior team by Decemebr 2007].
If Wenegr repeats this same mistake of having "blind faith" THREE YEARS IN SUCCESSION in those youngsters developing and ready by December 2009 - read Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere, Lansbury, Bartley, Nordtveit, Merida - then he should leave in 2010.
Yesterday match was a Last Chance Saloon for him to get 2009/10 squad this time - a mixture of experienced players and youngsters with depth.
The nucleus is there - ALmunia, Gallas, Sagna, CLichy, Gibbs, Fabregas, Arshavin, Nasri, Walcott, Bendtner, Vela, Ramsey, Wilshere, SOng and Denilson.
It si a matter who he will buy to strengthen the squad.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 14:32
I agree Merl. We have a lot of players who are good enougn and have the right attitude. But we have a few that are either not good enough (Diaby and Silvestre) or have the incorrect attitude (van Persie - consistency and Adebayor - just a poor attitude)
Sign a few quality players who are consistent and not 19 years old, and we can challenge.
I do not care about the "not winning a trophy" argument, i would quite happily challenge for trophies.
In a way, we could have been kicked out of the Champions League a while ago had won had such an easy draw until Man Utd, and the same goes for the FA Cup.
As long as we look like we could win the trophy, I would not mind.
Sign a few quality players who are consistent and not 19 years old, and we can challenge.
I do not care about the "not winning a trophy" argument, i would quite happily challenge for trophies.
In a way, we could have been kicked out of the Champions League a while ago had won had such an easy draw until Man Utd, and the same goes for the FA Cup.
As long as we look like we could win the trophy, I would not mind.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 15:19
Agree Tom.
As long as season in, season out, we are always challenging for the title, always in semi and final of cup competitions.
That is all I ask for Wenegr's next 3-year tranistionary period to rebuild this shattered TEAM.
As long as season in, season out, we are always challenging for the title, always in semi and final of cup competitions.
That is all I ask for Wenegr's next 3-year tranistionary period to rebuild this shattered TEAM.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: younghansolo (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 19:01
The thing is though. As good as some of these players are, they are injury prone now. We miss too many big players in big games. I mean Sure poor eduardo got planted by rio, but do u not think thats happened to other players as well? Other teams can deal with it and dont get injured so often. The sad truth is that though whatever fault our players will CONTINUE to get injured and therefore a solution must be found. We need some new blood, players without an injury record and players who can add real quality to the squad. I mean we have a truly massive squad but too many of the top drawer players miss games and their replacements are expected to play too often.
I do think we need to be patient with our younger players but I honestly feel they are expected to play too often because we cant keep first teamers fit long enough and this will be exactly the same next season.
players who will miss prolonged periods could include (provided they stay)
Toure, Gallas, Adebayor, RVP, Diaby, Eduardo, walcott,rosicky,djourou, silvestre.
All potential sufferers. Does our bench have the ability to win say four games in a row? Because that is often the task asked of them.
I do think we need to be patient with our younger players but I honestly feel they are expected to play too often because we cant keep first teamers fit long enough and this will be exactly the same next season.
players who will miss prolonged periods could include (provided they stay)
Toure, Gallas, Adebayor, RVP, Diaby, Eduardo, walcott,rosicky,djourou, silvestre.
All potential sufferers. Does our bench have the ability to win say four games in a row? Because that is often the task asked of them.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 21:15
We need more depth in the squad - and if you know any players whose legs dont break when tiny taylor tackles them we should snap them up
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: younghansolo (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 22:08
come on padre i wasnt suggesting Eduardo shouldnt be injured all the time i merely pointed out that its innevitable that he will be (largely thanks to taylor). must you be so glib all the time.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: eduardo (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 22:10
younghandsolo which is it, do other teams deal bette with the same amount of injuries or do they not get as many as you said "Other teams can deal with it and dont get injured so often. "
So last night the average age was 24, but if Gallas, Clichy, Rosicky and Eduardo were fit they would have been in the side ahead of younger players and our average age would also be similar to utds. Injuries to our players as an excuse has been totally dismissed by a hell of alot of people on here but that is just not right or fair. Wenger is blamed for picking young players but those very same young plaeyrs would not be in the side much if the above mention players were fit. IF utd got first choice players from the same positions as us injured long term how would they cope, look at all the trouble the had in defense when Vidic was out, how would they have coped with him and say ronny or rooney out for a long time at the same time
So last night the average age was 24, but if Gallas, Clichy, Rosicky and Eduardo were fit they would have been in the side ahead of younger players and our average age would also be similar to utds. Injuries to our players as an excuse has been totally dismissed by a hell of alot of people on here but that is just not right or fair. Wenger is blamed for picking young players but those very same young plaeyrs would not be in the side much if the above mention players were fit. IF utd got first choice players from the same positions as us injured long term how would they cope, look at all the trouble the had in defense when Vidic was out, how would they have coped with him and say ronny or rooney out for a long time at the same time
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: younghansolo (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 23:08
I think thats exactly my point Eduardo. Those young players are simply playing too many games because the first teamers are not fit often enough. I think that we need to have either new first teamers who are less injury prone or alternatively players on the bench who are capable of playing more games.
When a player becomes injury prone they may as well be an inconsistant player because they have the ability to perform well just as often or lack there of.
I think in the case of United their players get injured less often and take just as many hits (look at ronaldo for example) but can still keep on going. Its not because they are tougher, it's because those payers are not injury prone.
e.g. if michael owen gets hit or RVP there is a posibility they will carry it as an injury. Less so with say Ronaldo. Not because he is tougher but because he doesnt have a weakness there. When an injury occurs it can lead to players developing weaknesses that will always be there. For whatever reason (and i dont want to debate why it has happened) we have too many players who have muscle weaknesses and therefore will continue to get injured. This in turn means we rely on the kids more often than we should have to.
(By the way it's Young Han Solo, as in the star wars character.)
PEACE
When a player becomes injury prone they may as well be an inconsistant player because they have the ability to perform well just as often or lack there of.
I think in the case of United their players get injured less often and take just as many hits (look at ronaldo for example) but can still keep on going. Its not because they are tougher, it's because those payers are not injury prone.
e.g. if michael owen gets hit or RVP there is a posibility they will carry it as an injury. Less so with say Ronaldo. Not because he is tougher but because he doesnt have a weakness there. When an injury occurs it can lead to players developing weaknesses that will always be there. For whatever reason (and i dont want to debate why it has happened) we have too many players who have muscle weaknesses and therefore will continue to get injured. This in turn means we rely on the kids more often than we should have to.
(By the way it's Young Han Solo, as in the star wars character.)
PEACE
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: PKGooner (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 04:59
Did you stay till the end Padre.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 08:54
Yes I stayed to the very end, I always do
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: weedz (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 09:22
Would it not be more prudent to say Manure cost 200m and we cost 30m?
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 10:45
Not an excuse Weedz.
Else CITEH, S*CUMS and Newcastle will be above us in the table...
Else CITEH, S*CUMS and Newcastle will be above us in the table...
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 12:22
I cannot remember the figures, but we have had around 69 individual injuries this year, Chelsea 45 and Man Utd and Liverpool around 25.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: weedz (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 20:29
I accept your argument there Merl, but it must some effect. And Newcastle are such a stupid club, you can`t bring them into the equation. Any club in the world who would pay 10p or more for f**k`n Joey Barton doesn`t deserve to be in the EPL.
Tom, do you think that our using youth policy has made us more injury prone. Do young players get more injured than mature players?
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Tom, do you think that our using youth policy has made us more injury prone. Do young players get more injured than mature players?
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 23:11
Eduardo, van Persie, Rosicky, Gallas and Walcott are our most injury prone players. Name me a youth product that is injured all the time.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2009 06:57
Quote:Tom14
Eduardo, van Persie, Rosicky, Gallas and Walcott are our most injury prone players.
You forget the true definition of a sicknote, that is the useless Diaby.
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2009 09:16
Gibbs has also been on the sick
Re: Arsene Knows: Measured, Weighed and Found Wanting.
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2009 11:44
Yeah, Diaby as well. A player we signed.
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